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this isn't what used to be at this URL, and it is frankly a bunch of bullshit. see the "can't rape the willing" comment below. garbage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.151.72 ( talk) 05:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Are we absolutely sure that role-played rape fantasy can, by definition, only occur between "adults"? It seems like the article is trying to be politically correct, and letting PC override objectivity. It seems NPOV. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.153.0.24 ( talk) 03:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC).
How can someone not be in control of their own fantasy? I realize that some people think this a highly important point in regard to rape fantasies, and for some in regards to porn and erotica -- the consumers of porn/erotica are in control of what and when they do so -- although of course some people would put antennas on hills all over the world to control our fantasies and other thoughts if they could do so -- but in both cases it seems a patently silly distinction to simply state. Surely it needs some sort of conceptual background or something. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.224.120 ( talk) 04:07, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
The final paragraph of the section on role playing is clearly prescribing behavior rather than describing it. Clearly some people somewhere in the world who engage in role playing do not carefully negotiate the rules of their role-playing games. Sure some do not use safe words. Encyclopedias are descriptive rather than prescriptive. Neither should they be venues of propaganda aimed at vanilla readers. If the section is a how-to-manual, it should use the word "should" rather than others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.224.120 ( talk) 04:20, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Can I ask why this was moved from Rape fantasy? I presume this was meant to be moved to Consensual forced fantasy? Even so, that term seems to be a neologism, I feel the term "rape fantasy" was better and more widely used. Mdwh 18:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
The word "rape" strongly implies non-consensual force. I think using a term like consensual force is much more neutral and accurate depiction of the topic of the article. Or do you have other ideas?-- Sonjaaa 19:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
The scientific literature I've read has almost always referred to the phenomenon as "forced sex fantasy" because it is broader and includes things like coercion or seduction. I think "forced sex fantasy" is a better title.- Wafulz ( talk) 15:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
There should be something written of the philosophical paradox wherein the common idiom is found that one "cannot rape the willing" 67.5.156.242 ( talk) 10:47, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
This seems like maybe a good place to mention this somewhat related issue: "The difference between a fantasy and a real life situation is that in the fantasy, the person remains in full control of what happens and maintains their power." The article seems to assume that no one ever fantasizes about actually being raped, and that all (or almost all) rape fantasies would (if fulfilled) only involve consenting roleplayers. Such an assertion requires some sort of evidence; there's nothing about fantasizers of rape-roleplaying which logically precludes fantasizers of actual rape (which, presumably, would be addressed in the article 'rape fantasy'). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.172.85.6 ( talk) 19:38, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
The most commonly held theory about this phenomenon is that many individuals turn to fantasies about being raped as a means of reconciling naturally-occurring sexual desires with the intense negative stigma their culture and/or creed affix to sexual activity. The fantasy serves as a psychological device through which the fantasizer can safely indulge in intense sexual experiences without guilt, by absolving themselves of responsibility for participating in the act. Many socially acceptable examples can be found in " bodice ripper" fiction. citation needed
Rape fantasies can also represent an outlet for sexually submissive and/or dominant individuals. In such fantasies they can imagine themselves as having or lacking sexual control or power without actually participating in an illegal or immoral act. citation needed
Another relatively common theory is that the attraction some men feel toward raping is an evolutionary relic of prehistoric man (thousands of years ago, those willing to rape were more likely to have their genes passed on). citation needed According to these sociobiological theories of rape, rape fantasy fulfills a hereditary impulse that in civilized society where real rape has become socially intolerable. citation needed
Regardless, the presence of rape fantasies in a community or individual cannot be taken to imply that the fantasizers in reality condone rape, desire to rape others, or wish to be raped themselves. citation needed - 24.21.197.163 ( talk) 19:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
"It can be feeling of domination or submission also, as someone fantasises of forcing someone, or being forced, to have sex."
Assuming the usual case is a victim's fantasy, the last sentence should represent the rapist side only. "being forced" makes no sense - this is already covered. Would you agree? Thanks
Kvsh5 (
talk) 08:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
The first part of the general "Fantasy" section describes a demographic of men who had fantasized about having the impression of being raped. However, the section following the subheader of "Male fantasy" only describes men who fantasize about being in the dominant position. Seems a bit sexist to me. Actually, considering the minimal content of the "Fantasy" section, its subsections should probably be removed and the overall info consolidated. -- OGoncho ( talk) 09:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I am about to make a substantial admission against interest; Leave neither pity nor condemnation (I don’t want nor need the one and just don’t care about the other):
I myself was sexually assaulted in 2003 in a hazing incident that got extremely out-of-control (they got very much carried away). Part (albeit a small part) of my therapy was engaging in rape fantasy (both as perpetrator and vicitim). The doctor I dealing with at the time told me it was a process called “mastery,” in which the victim of a traumatic event takes control of the trauma; in children victimized by sexual abuse, he said they re-write the story where the event occurred, with it ending in a pleasant experience, rather than the abuse (whether this is still practiced or not I can not say).
While engaging in this phase of my life, I found ‘most’ of the other people so interested had themselves been sexually victimized at one point or another, to varying degrees. I submit that this aspect should be included, in at least a blurb under a subheading under roleplay.
A. J. REDDSON
I find it really unusual that the studies being used to support this article on social behavior are 30-40 years old. A lot has happened in American culture since the 1970s! The most recent study is 15 years old, which is slightly better, but I still question the usefulness of 40 year old studies on judging the frequency of culturally-conditioned fantasies.
This article is also solely focused on the woman's desire to be overpowered. Where are the studies on why men fantasize about being rapists? This isn't a one-sided encounter. 69.125.134.86 ( talk) 19:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
My comment would be, in the absence of newer studies, the language "rape fantasy was once a common sexual fantasy", means that nothing has changed, and it still is a common sexual fantasy of both women and men. And a 15 year old study is NOT that old; that's not even one generation to provide a change in thought between generations. 20 year olds who participated in that study are only 35. I'd want to change the language into 'Rape Fantasy is a common sexual fantasy' as there is no evidence to provide that this has changed. I will plan on making that edit if there are no objections with sources that it HAS changed and is no longer true that rape fantasy is a common sexual fantasy. Awolnetdiva ( talk) 21:02, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
On 30 October 2014, a new study about sexual fantasies was published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine [2]. I can't access it right now, but excerpts in the media told that a high number of women (30-60 %) had fantasies about being dominated. One of the mentioned such categories was a rape fantasy, maybe the full study has something more accurate about it. -- Pudeo ' 23:07, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
The subsection Chapter 4: Digital Truth Serum — The Truth About Sex has quite a bit on the expression of sexual fantasy on the Internet.
From Everybody lies: how Google search reveals our darkest secrets — 30 September 2018
Porn featuring violence against women is also extremely popular among women. It is far more popular among women than men.
I hate saying that because misogynists seem to love this fact. Fantasy life isn't always politically correct.
The rate at which women watch violent porn is roughly the same in every part of the world. It isn't correlated with how women are treated.
I don't have the book itself handy, and the websites that discuss this portion of the book's contents are awfully gun shy, based on my recollection from when I did read this book. — MaxEnt 01:37, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
I've added a citation needed to this sentence, because it just doesn't sound right. I think this subject goes deeper than mere fantasy and is a consequence of a violent human history, to which women have probably suffererd more, or at least in different ways to men — Preceding unsigned comment added by FlamingDeath ( talk • contribs) 22:06, 8 July 2020 (UTC)
While you may consider this article depressing or disturbing, please remember this page is only for discussing improvements to the article. Wikipedia is not censored, but articles do have to meet certain standards. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
It is requested that an image or photograph be
included in this article to
improve its quality. Please replace this template with a more specific
media request template where possible.
The Free Image Search Tool or Openverse Creative Commons Search may be able to locate suitable images on Flickr and other web sites. |
The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future:
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this isn't what used to be at this URL, and it is frankly a bunch of bullshit. see the "can't rape the willing" comment below. garbage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.151.72 ( talk) 05:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
Are we absolutely sure that role-played rape fantasy can, by definition, only occur between "adults"? It seems like the article is trying to be politically correct, and letting PC override objectivity. It seems NPOV. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.153.0.24 ( talk) 03:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC).
How can someone not be in control of their own fantasy? I realize that some people think this a highly important point in regard to rape fantasies, and for some in regards to porn and erotica -- the consumers of porn/erotica are in control of what and when they do so -- although of course some people would put antennas on hills all over the world to control our fantasies and other thoughts if they could do so -- but in both cases it seems a patently silly distinction to simply state. Surely it needs some sort of conceptual background or something. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.224.120 ( talk) 04:07, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
The final paragraph of the section on role playing is clearly prescribing behavior rather than describing it. Clearly some people somewhere in the world who engage in role playing do not carefully negotiate the rules of their role-playing games. Sure some do not use safe words. Encyclopedias are descriptive rather than prescriptive. Neither should they be venues of propaganda aimed at vanilla readers. If the section is a how-to-manual, it should use the word "should" rather than others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.224.120 ( talk) 04:20, 26 December 2012 (UTC)
Can I ask why this was moved from Rape fantasy? I presume this was meant to be moved to Consensual forced fantasy? Even so, that term seems to be a neologism, I feel the term "rape fantasy" was better and more widely used. Mdwh 18:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
The word "rape" strongly implies non-consensual force. I think using a term like consensual force is much more neutral and accurate depiction of the topic of the article. Or do you have other ideas?-- Sonjaaa 19:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
The scientific literature I've read has almost always referred to the phenomenon as "forced sex fantasy" because it is broader and includes things like coercion or seduction. I think "forced sex fantasy" is a better title.- Wafulz ( talk) 15:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
There should be something written of the philosophical paradox wherein the common idiom is found that one "cannot rape the willing" 67.5.156.242 ( talk) 10:47, 26 April 2008 (UTC)
This seems like maybe a good place to mention this somewhat related issue: "The difference between a fantasy and a real life situation is that in the fantasy, the person remains in full control of what happens and maintains their power." The article seems to assume that no one ever fantasizes about actually being raped, and that all (or almost all) rape fantasies would (if fulfilled) only involve consenting roleplayers. Such an assertion requires some sort of evidence; there's nothing about fantasizers of rape-roleplaying which logically precludes fantasizers of actual rape (which, presumably, would be addressed in the article 'rape fantasy'). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.172.85.6 ( talk) 19:38, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
The most commonly held theory about this phenomenon is that many individuals turn to fantasies about being raped as a means of reconciling naturally-occurring sexual desires with the intense negative stigma their culture and/or creed affix to sexual activity. The fantasy serves as a psychological device through which the fantasizer can safely indulge in intense sexual experiences without guilt, by absolving themselves of responsibility for participating in the act. Many socially acceptable examples can be found in " bodice ripper" fiction. citation needed
Rape fantasies can also represent an outlet for sexually submissive and/or dominant individuals. In such fantasies they can imagine themselves as having or lacking sexual control or power without actually participating in an illegal or immoral act. citation needed
Another relatively common theory is that the attraction some men feel toward raping is an evolutionary relic of prehistoric man (thousands of years ago, those willing to rape were more likely to have their genes passed on). citation needed According to these sociobiological theories of rape, rape fantasy fulfills a hereditary impulse that in civilized society where real rape has become socially intolerable. citation needed
Regardless, the presence of rape fantasies in a community or individual cannot be taken to imply that the fantasizers in reality condone rape, desire to rape others, or wish to be raped themselves. citation needed - 24.21.197.163 ( talk) 19:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)
"It can be feeling of domination or submission also, as someone fantasises of forcing someone, or being forced, to have sex."
Assuming the usual case is a victim's fantasy, the last sentence should represent the rapist side only. "being forced" makes no sense - this is already covered. Would you agree? Thanks
Kvsh5 (
talk) 08:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
The first part of the general "Fantasy" section describes a demographic of men who had fantasized about having the impression of being raped. However, the section following the subheader of "Male fantasy" only describes men who fantasize about being in the dominant position. Seems a bit sexist to me. Actually, considering the minimal content of the "Fantasy" section, its subsections should probably be removed and the overall info consolidated. -- OGoncho ( talk) 09:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I am about to make a substantial admission against interest; Leave neither pity nor condemnation (I don’t want nor need the one and just don’t care about the other):
I myself was sexually assaulted in 2003 in a hazing incident that got extremely out-of-control (they got very much carried away). Part (albeit a small part) of my therapy was engaging in rape fantasy (both as perpetrator and vicitim). The doctor I dealing with at the time told me it was a process called “mastery,” in which the victim of a traumatic event takes control of the trauma; in children victimized by sexual abuse, he said they re-write the story where the event occurred, with it ending in a pleasant experience, rather than the abuse (whether this is still practiced or not I can not say).
While engaging in this phase of my life, I found ‘most’ of the other people so interested had themselves been sexually victimized at one point or another, to varying degrees. I submit that this aspect should be included, in at least a blurb under a subheading under roleplay.
A. J. REDDSON
I find it really unusual that the studies being used to support this article on social behavior are 30-40 years old. A lot has happened in American culture since the 1970s! The most recent study is 15 years old, which is slightly better, but I still question the usefulness of 40 year old studies on judging the frequency of culturally-conditioned fantasies.
This article is also solely focused on the woman's desire to be overpowered. Where are the studies on why men fantasize about being rapists? This isn't a one-sided encounter. 69.125.134.86 ( talk) 19:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)
My comment would be, in the absence of newer studies, the language "rape fantasy was once a common sexual fantasy", means that nothing has changed, and it still is a common sexual fantasy of both women and men. And a 15 year old study is NOT that old; that's not even one generation to provide a change in thought between generations. 20 year olds who participated in that study are only 35. I'd want to change the language into 'Rape Fantasy is a common sexual fantasy' as there is no evidence to provide that this has changed. I will plan on making that edit if there are no objections with sources that it HAS changed and is no longer true that rape fantasy is a common sexual fantasy. Awolnetdiva ( talk) 21:02, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
On 30 October 2014, a new study about sexual fantasies was published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine [2]. I can't access it right now, but excerpts in the media told that a high number of women (30-60 %) had fantasies about being dominated. One of the mentioned such categories was a rape fantasy, maybe the full study has something more accurate about it. -- Pudeo ' 23:07, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
The subsection Chapter 4: Digital Truth Serum — The Truth About Sex has quite a bit on the expression of sexual fantasy on the Internet.
From Everybody lies: how Google search reveals our darkest secrets — 30 September 2018
Porn featuring violence against women is also extremely popular among women. It is far more popular among women than men.
I hate saying that because misogynists seem to love this fact. Fantasy life isn't always politically correct.
The rate at which women watch violent porn is roughly the same in every part of the world. It isn't correlated with how women are treated.
I don't have the book itself handy, and the websites that discuss this portion of the book's contents are awfully gun shy, based on my recollection from when I did read this book. — MaxEnt 01:37, 6 June 2020 (UTC)
I've added a citation needed to this sentence, because it just doesn't sound right. I think this subject goes deeper than mere fantasy and is a consequence of a violent human history, to which women have probably suffererd more, or at least in different ways to men — Preceding unsigned comment added by FlamingDeath ( talk • contribs) 22:06, 8 July 2020 (UTC)