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This is a horrible title, but I am having trouble thinking of a better one -- Imperial Elector? Electors of the Holy Roman Empire? An adjectival/genetive reference would be better than everything in the nominative... JHK
To M. Tinkler and JHK Please check out Kurfuersten/Electors . Also let me know about the German ( or English) names on the Hohenzollern list ?? Thanks user:H.J.
"...shortly before the Empire was abolished by Napoleon I..."
I understood that it was abolished in order to prevent the possibility of its being taken over and used by Napoleon to support his legitimacy, i.e. as a consequence of him but not by him. What is the actual siuation? PML.
I also like "Elector of the Holy Roman Empire" better than this title. As for the abolition, what happened was that Napoleon created the Confederation of the Rhine. The states that joined it (including Bavaria, Wurttemberg, and Baden), seceded from the Holy Roman Empire, and the Emperor eventually decided to give up the ghost, and declared the Empire at an end. I'm going to edit a bit.
john 02:30 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)
What about the adjectival Holy Roman Imperial Elector? -- Lord Emsworth 02:47, Dec 20, 2003 (UTC)
Encyclopedia Britannica (online ed.) has, "...Beginning around 1273 and with the confirmation of the Golden Bull of 1356, there were seven electors..."; what happened circa 1273? — Matt 09:39, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to give "Electoral Prince" as an equivalent to "Prince-Elector"? My understanding was that the former term was generally used for heirs to Prince-Electors, and not for prince-electors themselves. john k 06:48, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Regarding the abolition of the HRE. I think it is accurate to say that it was Napoleon himself who abolished it, rather than the Habsburg emperor. Napoleon was at the time the undisputed master of Europe, and the abolition was imposed on the Habsburgs as a virtual decree from Bonbaparte. While Franz II, as the last title holder, executed the formalities of the abolition, the act itself can be unambiguously attributed to Napoleon. I shall stop short of reverting the edit of StanZegel, however, to preserve the distinction of that formality. Thank you StanZegel for that edit, in fact. -- A. S. A. 06:29, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)
Link to Chamberlain is to a disambiguation page. It seems that term chamberlain in this context is not mentioned there. Can somebody even link chamberlain to a correct article or create it as red link? Can somebody confirm me that term chamberlain in this context is not mentioned on disambiguation page? -- Jan.Smolik 09:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
The following passage (from Composition, 1st paragraph after bulleted lists) is both pedantic and poorly edited.
The passage implies, but does not clearly state, that electoral privileges used to reside in the Franconian and Swabian ducal lines, then later passed to the Count Palatine of the Rhine and the Margrave of Brandenburg. If that is the case, that is what we should state in the article. However no source is given, and the 1911 Britannica [1] doesn't mention it. Overall the contribution is of poor quality and likely to confuse readers. I have removed it. -- Rob C (Alarob) 17:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
User:Fabartus was kind enough to add to the introduction of this article the following: "When the term "Elector" or "election of a king" is mentioned during the High Middle Ages and afterwards, the term almost certainly is refering to that curiously inept geopolitical entity that managed somehow to last century after century, usually to the detriment of the common people of Europe run over by the wars that ensued." Seems a bit... POV to me. 205.157.110.11 01:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
The table of contents template used for the article Imperial election — {{ Imperial election TOC}} — is currently nominated for deletion. If you have an opinion on the custom ToC layout used in this article, please contribute to the relevant TfD discussion. — OwenBlacker ( Talk) 13:42, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
OK so when the Habsburgs took over the kingdom of Bohemia, did it continue to be an electorate ? So did the Habsburgs get an automatic vote for themselves to be Emperor ? Eregli bob ( talk) 13:14, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
It should be noted that from early in the sixteenth century the formal and correct title of the Empire is the 'Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation'.
Quite frankly I'm astonished this hasn't been mentioned. Ds1994 ( talk) 15:05, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
The Elector was below any King. Electorate of Bavaria was elevated to Kingdom of Bavaria, Electorate of Saxony was raised to Kingdom of Saxony, and Electorate of Hesse requested elevation to "Kingdom of the Chatti", but after refusal remained Electorate. If Elector was same in dignity as King, this elevation was without sense. King of Romans and the Emperor usually were different persons and the King of Romans was above Electors. About King of Bohemia - he was called in the "constitution of the Empire" - Golden Bull of 1356 as King, not as Elector of Bohemia (see full text. He precedes all other temporal Electors [2].-- Yopie ( talk) 16:30, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
And in this context it might be noted that all the kings of/in Prussia were crowned thus in Königsberg (which is in Prussia) rather than in Berlin (which is in Brandenburg). This continued even after the Prussian kings became German emperors in 1871. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.35.146.43 ( talk) 14:09, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Crickey, having tried to explain that Royal titles were not permitted within the Empire apart from the King of the Romans/Emperor Elect, and the King of Bohemia, the discussion seems to have become a little clouded. But then toward the end of the Empire, the issue of 'Royal' titles had become clouded anyway. I would like to add the following to attempt clarity:
I speak German and I also know some about the German history, and as far as I know, the HRE was ordered like this:
Why is the Bohemian king's title in Czech relevant in this Holy Roman / German context?
It is even listed before the German.
99.238.134.143 (
talk) 19:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
The arms depicted for Regensburg are the present city arms. That's not right. I have a picture of the right arms but I'm not sure about the copyright situation.... Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 15:48, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
How can the arms of a state which has been defunct for two hundred years be copyrighted? john k ( talk) 13:24, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
It'd be good to get some clarity on the participation of the King of Bohemia. I found an old source (from 1716) which seems to suggest that it's only in the fifteenth century (the elections of 1400, 1410-11, 1438, 1440, and 1486) that Bohemia was excluded. I know that, until much later (1708, apparently), Bohemia did not participate in the non-electoral proceedings of the College of Electors. I'm fairly certain that Maria Theresa's representative was kicked out of the 1741-1742 election after the French and Bavarians took Prague, allowing for Charles VII's unanimous election. I *think* the King of Bohemia's representative did participate in the 1519 election. I'm not clear on the elections from 1531 to 1690, when the King of Bohemia was always the one elected. It appears to me that he sent a representative, but generally that representative did not himself participate in the vote? But I'm not clear on that. Any sources would be useful so that we can clarify this in the article. john k ( talk) 13:24, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Elector was an office of the Holy Roman Empire. All Electors, were also Duke's Princes, Prince-Bishops or Grand Dukes and Kings of their states. Hanover (or Brunswick-Luneburg) didn't stop being a Duchy upon gaining the Electorate, and the Elector did not stop being a Duke, taking the Electoral title instead. Same goes for all others. It was an additional title for the ruler of the specific territory. It didn't replace the titles they had before. The article doesn't reflect that. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 16:29, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
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The page says that the new Electorates created by Napoleon were not approved by the Emperor. Is that correct? My understanding was that Franz II did in fact approve the reorganization in 1803. Emperor001 ( talk) 15:15, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 02:50, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved ( non-admin closure) Bada Kaji ( talk • श्रीमान् गम्भीर) 15:42, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Prince-elector → Elector of the Holy Roman Empire – The page name Prince-elector has been questioned since 2004, and I believe that the WP:COMMONNAME of the title is simply "elector", which can be disambiguated by adding "of the Holy Roman Empire". In Wikipedia the members of Category:Electors of the Holy Roman Empire are disambiguated as elector rather than prince-elector and, as an example, "Elector of Brandenburg" is used 984 times and "Prince-elector of Brandenburg" only 32 times. The context is a proposal to rename "Category:Electors of the Holy Roman Empire" as "Category:Prince-electors of the Holy Roman Empire". TSventon ( talk) 06:35, 14 September 2021 (UTC)
Prince-elector is a former featured article. Please see the links under Article milestones below for its original nomination page (for older articles, check the nomination archive) and why it was removed. | |||||||||||||
This article appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page as Today's featured article on December 22, 2004. | |||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||
Current status: Former featured article |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This is a horrible title, but I am having trouble thinking of a better one -- Imperial Elector? Electors of the Holy Roman Empire? An adjectival/genetive reference would be better than everything in the nominative... JHK
To M. Tinkler and JHK Please check out Kurfuersten/Electors . Also let me know about the German ( or English) names on the Hohenzollern list ?? Thanks user:H.J.
"...shortly before the Empire was abolished by Napoleon I..."
I understood that it was abolished in order to prevent the possibility of its being taken over and used by Napoleon to support his legitimacy, i.e. as a consequence of him but not by him. What is the actual siuation? PML.
I also like "Elector of the Holy Roman Empire" better than this title. As for the abolition, what happened was that Napoleon created the Confederation of the Rhine. The states that joined it (including Bavaria, Wurttemberg, and Baden), seceded from the Holy Roman Empire, and the Emperor eventually decided to give up the ghost, and declared the Empire at an end. I'm going to edit a bit.
john 02:30 Apr 30, 2003 (UTC)
What about the adjectival Holy Roman Imperial Elector? -- Lord Emsworth 02:47, Dec 20, 2003 (UTC)
Encyclopedia Britannica (online ed.) has, "...Beginning around 1273 and with the confirmation of the Golden Bull of 1356, there were seven electors..."; what happened circa 1273? — Matt 09:39, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Is it appropriate to give "Electoral Prince" as an equivalent to "Prince-Elector"? My understanding was that the former term was generally used for heirs to Prince-Electors, and not for prince-electors themselves. john k 06:48, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Regarding the abolition of the HRE. I think it is accurate to say that it was Napoleon himself who abolished it, rather than the Habsburg emperor. Napoleon was at the time the undisputed master of Europe, and the abolition was imposed on the Habsburgs as a virtual decree from Bonbaparte. While Franz II, as the last title holder, executed the formalities of the abolition, the act itself can be unambiguously attributed to Napoleon. I shall stop short of reverting the edit of StanZegel, however, to preserve the distinction of that formality. Thank you StanZegel for that edit, in fact. -- A. S. A. 06:29, Dec 28, 2004 (UTC)
Link to Chamberlain is to a disambiguation page. It seems that term chamberlain in this context is not mentioned there. Can somebody even link chamberlain to a correct article or create it as red link? Can somebody confirm me that term chamberlain in this context is not mentioned on disambiguation page? -- Jan.Smolik 09:34, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
The following passage (from Composition, 1st paragraph after bulleted lists) is both pedantic and poorly edited.
The passage implies, but does not clearly state, that electoral privileges used to reside in the Franconian and Swabian ducal lines, then later passed to the Count Palatine of the Rhine and the Margrave of Brandenburg. If that is the case, that is what we should state in the article. However no source is given, and the 1911 Britannica [1] doesn't mention it. Overall the contribution is of poor quality and likely to confuse readers. I have removed it. -- Rob C (Alarob) 17:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
User:Fabartus was kind enough to add to the introduction of this article the following: "When the term "Elector" or "election of a king" is mentioned during the High Middle Ages and afterwards, the term almost certainly is refering to that curiously inept geopolitical entity that managed somehow to last century after century, usually to the detriment of the common people of Europe run over by the wars that ensued." Seems a bit... POV to me. 205.157.110.11 01:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
The table of contents template used for the article Imperial election — {{ Imperial election TOC}} — is currently nominated for deletion. If you have an opinion on the custom ToC layout used in this article, please contribute to the relevant TfD discussion. — OwenBlacker ( Talk) 13:42, 16 July 2011 (UTC)
OK so when the Habsburgs took over the kingdom of Bohemia, did it continue to be an electorate ? So did the Habsburgs get an automatic vote for themselves to be Emperor ? Eregli bob ( talk) 13:14, 31 January 2012 (UTC)
It should be noted that from early in the sixteenth century the formal and correct title of the Empire is the 'Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation'.
Quite frankly I'm astonished this hasn't been mentioned. Ds1994 ( talk) 15:05, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
The Elector was below any King. Electorate of Bavaria was elevated to Kingdom of Bavaria, Electorate of Saxony was raised to Kingdom of Saxony, and Electorate of Hesse requested elevation to "Kingdom of the Chatti", but after refusal remained Electorate. If Elector was same in dignity as King, this elevation was without sense. King of Romans and the Emperor usually were different persons and the King of Romans was above Electors. About King of Bohemia - he was called in the "constitution of the Empire" - Golden Bull of 1356 as King, not as Elector of Bohemia (see full text. He precedes all other temporal Electors [2].-- Yopie ( talk) 16:30, 25 May 2012 (UTC)
And in this context it might be noted that all the kings of/in Prussia were crowned thus in Königsberg (which is in Prussia) rather than in Berlin (which is in Brandenburg). This continued even after the Prussian kings became German emperors in 1871. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.35.146.43 ( talk) 14:09, 7 December 2012 (UTC)
Crickey, having tried to explain that Royal titles were not permitted within the Empire apart from the King of the Romans/Emperor Elect, and the King of Bohemia, the discussion seems to have become a little clouded. But then toward the end of the Empire, the issue of 'Royal' titles had become clouded anyway. I would like to add the following to attempt clarity:
I speak German and I also know some about the German history, and as far as I know, the HRE was ordered like this:
Why is the Bohemian king's title in Czech relevant in this Holy Roman / German context?
It is even listed before the German.
99.238.134.143 (
talk) 19:41, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
The arms depicted for Regensburg are the present city arms. That's not right. I have a picture of the right arms but I'm not sure about the copyright situation.... Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 15:48, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
How can the arms of a state which has been defunct for two hundred years be copyrighted? john k ( talk) 13:24, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
It'd be good to get some clarity on the participation of the King of Bohemia. I found an old source (from 1716) which seems to suggest that it's only in the fifteenth century (the elections of 1400, 1410-11, 1438, 1440, and 1486) that Bohemia was excluded. I know that, until much later (1708, apparently), Bohemia did not participate in the non-electoral proceedings of the College of Electors. I'm fairly certain that Maria Theresa's representative was kicked out of the 1741-1742 election after the French and Bavarians took Prague, allowing for Charles VII's unanimous election. I *think* the King of Bohemia's representative did participate in the 1519 election. I'm not clear on the elections from 1531 to 1690, when the King of Bohemia was always the one elected. It appears to me that he sent a representative, but generally that representative did not himself participate in the vote? But I'm not clear on that. Any sources would be useful so that we can clarify this in the article. john k ( talk) 13:24, 26 October 2015 (UTC)
Elector was an office of the Holy Roman Empire. All Electors, were also Duke's Princes, Prince-Bishops or Grand Dukes and Kings of their states. Hanover (or Brunswick-Luneburg) didn't stop being a Duchy upon gaining the Electorate, and the Elector did not stop being a Duke, taking the Electoral title instead. Same goes for all others. It was an additional title for the ruler of the specific territory. It didn't replace the titles they had before. The article doesn't reflect that. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 16:29, 14 May 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Prince-elector. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 16:00, 20 May 2017 (UTC)
The page says that the new Electorates created by Napoleon were not approved by the Emperor. Is that correct? My understanding was that Franz II did in fact approve the reorganization in 1803. Emperor001 ( talk) 15:15, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page have been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussions at the nomination pages linked above. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 02:50, 9 January 2020 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: not moved ( non-admin closure) Bada Kaji ( talk • श्रीमान् गम्भीर) 15:42, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
Prince-elector → Elector of the Holy Roman Empire – The page name Prince-elector has been questioned since 2004, and I believe that the WP:COMMONNAME of the title is simply "elector", which can be disambiguated by adding "of the Holy Roman Empire". In Wikipedia the members of Category:Electors of the Holy Roman Empire are disambiguated as elector rather than prince-elector and, as an example, "Elector of Brandenburg" is used 984 times and "Prince-elector of Brandenburg" only 32 times. The context is a proposal to rename "Category:Electors of the Holy Roman Empire" as "Category:Prince-electors of the Holy Roman Empire". TSventon ( talk) 06:35, 14 September 2021 (UTC)