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I have recently been downgraded to a "consultant". That is a rather general appellation. It could mean nearly anything. As an academic with a PhD in Ecology and an Honorary Degree as a Doctor of Science I am an ecologist and have been for nearly 50 years. I was designated by Greenpeace as the ecologist for the first campaign against US hydrogen bomb tests in Alaska. (I can verify this) I was possibly the first person in Canada to obtain a PhD in ecology (1972). It was granted by the Institute of Resource Ecology at the University of British Columbia. As an independent ecologist, never in the direct employ of any institution, one of my main functions was and is as a public speaker at conferences and other public events. At all these venues I am free to speak my mind without any influence from my sponsors. Secondly, and now mainly retired from, I have advised government and industry on environmental science and policy. In all cases I have been free to give my best advice. I have never worked with anyone who told me what to say. In other words I am not a PR agent or "sold out" as so many of my detractors contend. So I am either an "ecologist" or I am an "environmental consultant" or perhaps an "environmental campaigner". I prefer ecologist as I am primarily a scientist. At the present time I am Chair of the CO2 Coalition based in Arlington Virginia. Our board is by invitation and it is composed of some of the top scientists, engineers, and economists in North America. What do i need to do further? Can I edit my profession myself? I am not familiar with this process. -- Pmoore2222 ( talk) 07:10, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
Is this the most blatantly POV article on the site, or is it me. I hardly think that an unmodified Disinfopedia article makes for a good Wiki article. It needs a serious rewrite. TDC 21:36, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)
I have ample proof that Greenpeace recognized me as a co-founder on nearly all its international websites until February 2007, when I was erased. In addition Greenpeace UK still has a website up that recognizes the founders were the people who sailed on the first campaign against US H-Bomb test in Alaska in 1971. There is no contest that I was on that boat, Here is a quote from their website: "Greenpeace was founded in 1971 by a small group of concerned individuals, who set sail to Amchitka island off the coast of Alaska to try and stop a US nuclear weapons test. Their old fishing boat was called “The Greenpeace”." No doubt this is an oversight as I have been erased everywhere else. https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/about-greenpeace/ I would like to share the archival screenshots I have taken over the year to prove to you that the removal of my name from the founders is historical revisionism. What should I do? When I try to upload images it says I must own the copyright. How cam one own the copyright to web pages from the WayBack Machine? -- Pmoore2222 ( talk) 07:28, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
As you can see from the archived thread
Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2019 there was no agreement whether to state or deny that Patrick Moore was a founder or co-founder. In a later thread (October 2019)
Greenpeace's description of Moore being in the lede In a later thread
Semi-protected edit request: Updated discussion starting 11th July 2019 at least three editors (versus one) apparently supported the insertion of ("Moore describes himself as a founding member of Greenpeace,[23] but the organization denies this claim.[24]").
Peter Gulutzan (
talk) 15:27, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
Screenshots are probably not acceptable, but the URLs can certainly be used, and some limited use of primary sources is acceptable. The article already documents that you were a crewmember on the 1971 voyage of the Phyllis Cormack. The facts that you were listed on the crew list as one of the three representing Greenpeace on that occasion, and that Greenpeace once described this voyage as ...our founders set sail..., can be supported from primary sources such as the independent archive of their website IMO. But strictly, to claim on the basis of these facts that Greenpeace once described you as a founder might be interpretation, and therefore original research. In most of Wikipedia it would probably be accepted as a trivial piece of logic, but this is a problematical article.
I'd suggest that "Moore describes himself as a founding member of Greenpeace, as has the organisation itself in the past, but it has since denied this claim" would be the most informative and accurate. But to be encyclopedic it needs to be backed up by references of course. And secondary sources will be a lot harder to challenge.
Is there a better wording? And/or, can this be sourced? Andrewa ( talk) 18:16, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
Is this single sentence really worthy of being a subsection? It seems odd to classify this as one of his "views" on par with energy, climate change, and GMOs. Bueller 007 ( talk) 00:04, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
The cited article does not show "extreme" or irreversible damage. It makes no such claims at all. Therefore, I am removing that language for going against WP:NPOV and being unjustified. -- Doctorx0079 ( talk) 14:20, 18 June 2021 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
I have recently been downgraded to a "consultant". That is a rather general appellation. It could mean nearly anything. As an academic with a PhD in Ecology and an Honorary Degree as a Doctor of Science I am an ecologist and have been for nearly 50 years. I was designated by Greenpeace as the ecologist for the first campaign against US hydrogen bomb tests in Alaska. (I can verify this) I was possibly the first person in Canada to obtain a PhD in ecology (1972). It was granted by the Institute of Resource Ecology at the University of British Columbia. As an independent ecologist, never in the direct employ of any institution, one of my main functions was and is as a public speaker at conferences and other public events. At all these venues I am free to speak my mind without any influence from my sponsors. Secondly, and now mainly retired from, I have advised government and industry on environmental science and policy. In all cases I have been free to give my best advice. I have never worked with anyone who told me what to say. In other words I am not a PR agent or "sold out" as so many of my detractors contend. So I am either an "ecologist" or I am an "environmental consultant" or perhaps an "environmental campaigner". I prefer ecologist as I am primarily a scientist. At the present time I am Chair of the CO2 Coalition based in Arlington Virginia. Our board is by invitation and it is composed of some of the top scientists, engineers, and economists in North America. What do i need to do further? Can I edit my profession myself? I am not familiar with this process. -- Pmoore2222 ( talk) 07:10, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
Is this the most blatantly POV article on the site, or is it me. I hardly think that an unmodified Disinfopedia article makes for a good Wiki article. It needs a serious rewrite. TDC 21:36, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)
I have ample proof that Greenpeace recognized me as a co-founder on nearly all its international websites until February 2007, when I was erased. In addition Greenpeace UK still has a website up that recognizes the founders were the people who sailed on the first campaign against US H-Bomb test in Alaska in 1971. There is no contest that I was on that boat, Here is a quote from their website: "Greenpeace was founded in 1971 by a small group of concerned individuals, who set sail to Amchitka island off the coast of Alaska to try and stop a US nuclear weapons test. Their old fishing boat was called “The Greenpeace”." No doubt this is an oversight as I have been erased everywhere else. https://www.greenpeace.org.uk/about-greenpeace/ I would like to share the archival screenshots I have taken over the year to prove to you that the removal of my name from the founders is historical revisionism. What should I do? When I try to upload images it says I must own the copyright. How cam one own the copyright to web pages from the WayBack Machine? -- Pmoore2222 ( talk) 07:28, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
As you can see from the archived thread
Semi-protected edit request on 18 March 2019 there was no agreement whether to state or deny that Patrick Moore was a founder or co-founder. In a later thread (October 2019)
Greenpeace's description of Moore being in the lede In a later thread
Semi-protected edit request: Updated discussion starting 11th July 2019 at least three editors (versus one) apparently supported the insertion of ("Moore describes himself as a founding member of Greenpeace,[23] but the organization denies this claim.[24]").
Peter Gulutzan (
talk) 15:27, 5 January 2020 (UTC)
Screenshots are probably not acceptable, but the URLs can certainly be used, and some limited use of primary sources is acceptable. The article already documents that you were a crewmember on the 1971 voyage of the Phyllis Cormack. The facts that you were listed on the crew list as one of the three representing Greenpeace on that occasion, and that Greenpeace once described this voyage as ...our founders set sail..., can be supported from primary sources such as the independent archive of their website IMO. But strictly, to claim on the basis of these facts that Greenpeace once described you as a founder might be interpretation, and therefore original research. In most of Wikipedia it would probably be accepted as a trivial piece of logic, but this is a problematical article.
I'd suggest that "Moore describes himself as a founding member of Greenpeace, as has the organisation itself in the past, but it has since denied this claim" would be the most informative and accurate. But to be encyclopedic it needs to be backed up by references of course. And secondary sources will be a lot harder to challenge.
Is there a better wording? And/or, can this be sourced? Andrewa ( talk) 18:16, 11 March 2020 (UTC)
Is this single sentence really worthy of being a subsection? It seems odd to classify this as one of his "views" on par with energy, climate change, and GMOs. Bueller 007 ( talk) 00:04, 17 August 2020 (UTC)
The cited article does not show "extreme" or irreversible damage. It makes no such claims at all. Therefore, I am removing that language for going against WP:NPOV and being unjustified. -- Doctorx0079 ( talk) 14:20, 18 June 2021 (UTC)