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It's not clear since the target of the wikilink doesn't give a definition.-- Imz 19:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
the chart says 300BC but old Persian was first written by 550BC, not? Cpom 20:55, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Three consonants (c [c], ç [ç] and j [ɟ]) seem to be mixed up by the creator of the WikiTable @ the Phonology section. While it is true that standard IPA "[ç]" is a voiceless consonant, it is a spirant (fricative) unlike all other consonants in this column and the other two are even more suspicious as c [c] [in the voiced column] is a voiceless palatal plosive and j [ɟ] is a voiced plosive, not a spirant.
I didn't correct it, as I'm not a phonetician nor an expert of the Old Persian language but I'd be very happy if someone could fix this or could explain why it doesn't need to be fixed. -- Adolar von Csobánka (Talk) 19:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
this section is unreferenced, and a pain to maintain or verify. It also doesn't make much sense, Wikipedia articles on languages aren't for mass lexical comparison. It may have a place in a Wiktionary appendix. ( wikt:Appendix:Iranian languages vocabulary comparison or something). It would be more valuable to have a prose paragraph on the sound changes involved. dab (𒁳) 07:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
From reading the Gvozdanovic's book on Indo-European Numerals and looking at the various article in the Encyclopedia Iranica, it seems one could reconstruct forms *çayah (*çaiiah) for three, *čaθwārah for four, and *xšaš for six.
Check this table of sound correspondences:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/kurdish-language-i
Statement on the origins of Persian se found here:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/dimli
This goes with what we already know indirectly (from Elamite texts) or directly of the other forms: aiva-, duva, panča, hafta, ašta, nava, daθa. I wonder if the full form of aiva- would be aivaka. Any experts or people with sources want to chime in? So based on attested forms and reconstuction: aivaka, duva, çayah, čaθwārah, panča, xšaš, hafta, ašta, nava, daθa.
Azalea pomp (
talk) 18:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
There was a long comment hidden in the table. It cites several sources. I took it out of hiding. Why was it ever hidden? David Marjanović ( talk) 00:01, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
In English
http://www.lexilogos.com/english/persian_old.htm
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~iranian/OldPersian/
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/aveol-0-X.html
http://www.avesta.org/op/op.htm
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/opeol-BF-X.html
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026893150
https://archive.org/details/cu31924074376264
https://archive.org/details/guidetooldpersia00tolmrich
https://archive.org/details/historicalgramm00johngoog
https://archive.org/details/historicalgramm01johngoog
https://archive.org/details/historicalgramma00johnrich
https://archive.org/details/GrammarOfTheOldPersianLanguage
https://archive.org/details/OldPersian
https://archive.org/details/CuneiformSupplement
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026822431
https://archive.org/details/abridgedgrammar00bertgoog
In German
https://archive.org/details/AltiranischesWorterbuch
https://archive.org/details/HandbuchDerAltiranischenDialekte
https://archive.org/details/handbuchderalti00bartgoog
https://archive.org/details/handbuchderalti01bartgoog
https://archive.org/details/vergleichendegr00spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische00spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische01spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische02spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische03spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/einkapitelvergl00jollgoog
In Italian
https://archive.org/details/einkapitelvergl01jollgoog
https://archive.org/details/grammaticaeleme00pizzgoog
Graeco-Persian names
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026891949
https://archive.org/details/graecopersiannam00stonuoft
https://archive.org/details/graecopersiannam00stonrich
Old and Middle Persian
https://archive.org/details/AStudyOfDenominativeVerbsInMiddlePersianAndModernPersian
Codex cumanicus, Bibliothecae ad templum divi Marci Venetiarum primum ex integro editit prolegomenis notis et compluribus glossariis instruxit comes Géza Kuun (1880)
https://archive.org/details/codexcumanicusbi00kuunuoft
08:21, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the link to "Lari language" stuck on the end of the introduction because the "Lari language link" insert is a awkward and poorly placed addition to the article. Also I think that there is no such thing as a "lari language" it seems to be a Modern Persian dialect. It seems to me that that article and the modification to the old Persian dialect were made by an Iranian/Persian who is motivated by "local pride" and is unaccustomed to academic writing in English. -- 173.9.219.250 ( talk) 11:05, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
I was the one who added Tremblay's hypothesis about the Old Persian reflex of Proto-Iranian *-ah (Proto-Indo-Iranian *-as) being pronounced [e(ː)] and later [i], but frankly, I can't be bothered to dig up the cite and the phenomenon of appending a yod to Middle Persian nouns (in Pahlavi, whose spelling is fairly historical and still reflects some Old Persian features) has a better explanation, as a remnant of case endings such as the old genitive singular in -ahya, see p. 36, n. 3 (in German). -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 01:59, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
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Man, Iranian people are do NOT equal to the Persian People. Iranian peoples consist of Tat, Talish, Baloch, Mazandarani, Tajik, Kurd, Lur and Persians etc. So, please correct the ridiculous definition of "𐎠𐎼𐎹 Ariya to be equal to the Old Persian". Plus, at the Achamenid era, not only Persians were using that language. All Iranian people were using it. So, it is not Persians' proper language. It should be put as: "Achamenid Language" to represent the all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.70.245.165 ( talk) 16:55, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Old Persian article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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It's not clear since the target of the wikilink doesn't give a definition.-- Imz 19:59, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
the chart says 300BC but old Persian was first written by 550BC, not? Cpom 20:55, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
Three consonants (c [c], ç [ç] and j [ɟ]) seem to be mixed up by the creator of the WikiTable @ the Phonology section. While it is true that standard IPA "[ç]" is a voiceless consonant, it is a spirant (fricative) unlike all other consonants in this column and the other two are even more suspicious as c [c] [in the voiced column] is a voiceless palatal plosive and j [ɟ] is a voiced plosive, not a spirant.
I didn't correct it, as I'm not a phonetician nor an expert of the Old Persian language but I'd be very happy if someone could fix this or could explain why it doesn't need to be fixed. -- Adolar von Csobánka (Talk) 19:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
this section is unreferenced, and a pain to maintain or verify. It also doesn't make much sense, Wikipedia articles on languages aren't for mass lexical comparison. It may have a place in a Wiktionary appendix. ( wikt:Appendix:Iranian languages vocabulary comparison or something). It would be more valuable to have a prose paragraph on the sound changes involved. dab (𒁳) 07:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
From reading the Gvozdanovic's book on Indo-European Numerals and looking at the various article in the Encyclopedia Iranica, it seems one could reconstruct forms *çayah (*çaiiah) for three, *čaθwārah for four, and *xšaš for six.
Check this table of sound correspondences:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/kurdish-language-i
Statement on the origins of Persian se found here:
http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/dimli
This goes with what we already know indirectly (from Elamite texts) or directly of the other forms: aiva-, duva, panča, hafta, ašta, nava, daθa. I wonder if the full form of aiva- would be aivaka. Any experts or people with sources want to chime in? So based on attested forms and reconstuction: aivaka, duva, çayah, čaθwārah, panča, xšaš, hafta, ašta, nava, daθa.
Azalea pomp (
talk) 18:10, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
There was a long comment hidden in the table. It cites several sources. I took it out of hiding. Why was it ever hidden? David Marjanović ( talk) 00:01, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
In English
http://www.lexilogos.com/english/persian_old.htm
http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~iranian/OldPersian/
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/aveol-0-X.html
http://www.avesta.org/op/op.htm
http://www.utexas.edu/cola/centers/lrc/eieol/opeol-BF-X.html
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026893150
https://archive.org/details/cu31924074376264
https://archive.org/details/guidetooldpersia00tolmrich
https://archive.org/details/historicalgramm00johngoog
https://archive.org/details/historicalgramm01johngoog
https://archive.org/details/historicalgramma00johnrich
https://archive.org/details/GrammarOfTheOldPersianLanguage
https://archive.org/details/OldPersian
https://archive.org/details/CuneiformSupplement
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026822431
https://archive.org/details/abridgedgrammar00bertgoog
In German
https://archive.org/details/AltiranischesWorterbuch
https://archive.org/details/HandbuchDerAltiranischenDialekte
https://archive.org/details/handbuchderalti00bartgoog
https://archive.org/details/handbuchderalti01bartgoog
https://archive.org/details/vergleichendegr00spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische00spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische01spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische02spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/diealtpersische03spiegoog
https://archive.org/details/einkapitelvergl00jollgoog
In Italian
https://archive.org/details/einkapitelvergl01jollgoog
https://archive.org/details/grammaticaeleme00pizzgoog
Graeco-Persian names
https://archive.org/details/cu31924026891949
https://archive.org/details/graecopersiannam00stonuoft
https://archive.org/details/graecopersiannam00stonrich
Old and Middle Persian
https://archive.org/details/AStudyOfDenominativeVerbsInMiddlePersianAndModernPersian
Codex cumanicus, Bibliothecae ad templum divi Marci Venetiarum primum ex integro editit prolegomenis notis et compluribus glossariis instruxit comes Géza Kuun (1880)
https://archive.org/details/codexcumanicusbi00kuunuoft
08:21, 23 February 2014 (UTC)
I have removed the link to "Lari language" stuck on the end of the introduction because the "Lari language link" insert is a awkward and poorly placed addition to the article. Also I think that there is no such thing as a "lari language" it seems to be a Modern Persian dialect. It seems to me that that article and the modification to the old Persian dialect were made by an Iranian/Persian who is motivated by "local pride" and is unaccustomed to academic writing in English. -- 173.9.219.250 ( talk) 11:05, 14 June 2014 (UTC)
I was the one who added Tremblay's hypothesis about the Old Persian reflex of Proto-Iranian *-ah (Proto-Indo-Iranian *-as) being pronounced [e(ː)] and later [i], but frankly, I can't be bothered to dig up the cite and the phenomenon of appending a yod to Middle Persian nouns (in Pahlavi, whose spelling is fairly historical and still reflects some Old Persian features) has a better explanation, as a remnant of case endings such as the old genitive singular in -ahya, see p. 36, n. 3 (in German). -- Florian Blaschke ( talk) 01:59, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Old Persian. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
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source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 04:54, 11 December 2017 (UTC)
Man, Iranian people are do NOT equal to the Persian People. Iranian peoples consist of Tat, Talish, Baloch, Mazandarani, Tajik, Kurd, Lur and Persians etc. So, please correct the ridiculous definition of "𐎠𐎼𐎹 Ariya to be equal to the Old Persian". Plus, at the Achamenid era, not only Persians were using that language. All Iranian people were using it. So, it is not Persians' proper language. It should be put as: "Achamenid Language" to represent the all. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.70.245.165 ( talk) 16:55, 18 May 2021 (UTC)