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This is dubious. Other sources online suggest that the proper amount of salt in an isotonic saline solution is 0.9%, not 0.9 grams per litre which is equal to 0.09%. It is also given as if it is quoted from somewhere but no source is provided. -- B.D.Mills ( T, C) 05:42, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
B.D.Mills is correct. To be precise, a 0.9% by weight solution of NaCl in water is isotonic (has the same osmotic pressure of water)as human blood plasma and the contents of red blood cells. See Medline Plus Medical Encyclopedia, http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003463.htm "Normal values range from 280 to 303 milliosmoles per kilogram." and WebMD, http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/serum-osmolality?page=2 "280–300 milliosmoles per kilogram (mOSm/kg) of water". By calculation, a 0.9% by weight solution has 9 g NaCl per 1000 grams of solution = 9.08 g NaCl per 1000 g of water = 0.155 moles of NaCl per kg of water. Assuming NaCl is fully disassociated in water, this results in 0.310 osmoles/kg of water. The CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 60th Edition (1979), CRC Press, page D-261 gives the osmolality of a 0.9% NaCl solution as 0.287 osmoles/kg. Barton A. Smith ( talk) 23:55, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I have amended the article accordingly. Colonel Warden ( talk) 00:32, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
The current instructions for an isotonic solution say that 1 tsp salt per pint is isotonic and 1 tsp salt plus 1 tsp baking soda per pint is also isotonic. Can this be right? Is the molarity of baking soda so much less? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.2.143 ( talk) 10:40, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I recently came here to find the recommended solution after having a very good experience with a commercial product. 1 tsp each of salt and baking soda per pint of water was significantly stronger than the commercial solution. So while the info about how to create an isotonic solution may be accurate, it may be useful to #1 confirm as 130.225.2.143 stated above that the addition of baking soda does not require a reduction in salt to remain isotonic, and #2 to offer a range of typical solution strengths so that people can start on the weak end and adjust upward as needed. HumanJHawkins ( talk) 01:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I too have noticed that the measurement of salt/soda seems to be misleading. The article specifies 1 teaspoon of salt and 1 teaspoon of baking soda, yet the reference (19) [1] specifies two to three heaped teaspoons of salt and one teaspoon of baking soda. 2-3:1 ratio appears a lot close to the commercial products from my experience, and agrees with the professional advise that I had as well. -- SteveLang ( talk) 11:23, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Does anybody have any objections to converting the recipe of home-made solution to metric? Aside from being the international standard, I don't have a good feel for how much something is in US units. You could tell me to add 100 teaspoons to a gallon and I wouldn't have a clue. Rknight ( talk) 02:54, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Anyone care to check my math? Rknight ( talk) 23:26, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
So, which of the paranasal sinuses do these techniques clear?
Hey yo, like any treatment, nasal irrigationisn't perfect. I found an abstract (mined it from the netti pot article, read through it and elaborated for this article), regarding long-term use and the harm this causes. Additionally, I made light of the fact that efficacy studies haven'T really been conducted on the technique. I titled this section 'contraindications and harm', I hope this is neutral enough for everyone :). Talonxpool ( talk) 21:04, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I agree with the proposal by Enric Naval. It's not clear to me that pulsatile irrigation is independently notable, and from an organisational point of view it's better if it's covered by this article, anyway. (This decision could of course be revisited if and when the material on pulsatile irrigiation grows significantly.) Hans Adler 10:35, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
you guys are so misinformed there are hundreds of clinicals on the efficacy of pulsatile irrigation which is used for surgery, debridement, burn centers and many other applicaions Thank god for Google Wikipedia is irrelevant moderated by folks that have little or no expertise — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.250.66.181 ( talk) 05:32, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
I suggest we merge Nasal douche to here because it is the same thing! 96.244.254.20 ( talk) 17:31, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
I think most of the info in Neti_Pot is already here. It looks like the term Neti Pot is trademarked, so a redirect here would be more appropriate. Rknight ( talk) 19:58, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Merge it. Undo the split mentioned by Adler. Also, "Neti Pot" is not trademarked, at least not in the US. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andyberks ( talk • contribs) 19:34, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Someone want to tackle the yoga origins section, and remove all the unnecessary digression from the Methods section? Rknight ( talk) 05:51, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I just didn't feel comfortable with this in the article. It doesn't seem to deserve its own section, and it needs some serious cleanup. Please begin a list of sources, and indicate whether they are secondary or primary as per WP:MEDRS Rknight ( talk) 06:12, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
The Pulsatile Nasal/Sinus Irrigation can be said to be the most advanced citation needed nasal irrigation method, which is based on anatomy and physiology of nasal mucociliary function and motor function citation needed (mucociliary movement). It can irrigate warm saline water into one of the nasal passage through the nasal cavity, paranasal sinuses, nasopharynx, and come out from the other nasal passage. Since it doesn’t have the strong pressure as the squeeze bottle citation needed, the water flow is gentle, so it is safe and will not cause injury or bleeding nasal mucosa. citation needed More over, the water flow pulsates at frequencies similar to that of the natural mucociliary movement citation needed, it can more effectively remove thick mucus and pus bacterial toxins. citation needed During use, your head should bend down, which from the anatomical point of view, it is easy for the water to flow into the nasal cavity from one side, around the nasopharynx and exit from the other side. It also suggests a much lower chance to flow into Eustachian tube or throat, and in turn, the patient would feel more comfortable. citation needed [1]
The "Sarvikuono" (word play on the Finnish name for Rhinoceros, literally "horn nose") style nasal irrigation pot link to fi.wikipedia image is more common than other methods featured in the article in at least Scandinavia, and the image origin lists the image to be from de.wikipedia originally. It relies on gravity and the tapering shape of the spout to produce positive pressure. The pot is sold with a measuring spoon that is proportioned to give a filled pot the correct salinity in the finished solution. I own two of them, and they are far easier to use than the current article's description makes the use of this method sound like. You tilt your head to the right and down, pour the saline solution into your left nostril, breathe through your mouth, and let the water run through and out the other nostril. Refill the pot, and repeat with the other side. Doesn't sound scientific, but would make it sound a wee tad easier to use than the current article. 98.237.196.152 ( talk) 03:16, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Proposed revision to the last statement:
this: Xylitol is commonly used to prevent acute otitis media in Europe and dental caries in the United States,[23] but research into xylitol use in the sinus cavities is lacking.
to this: Xylitol is commonly used to prevent acute otitis media in Europe and dental caries in the United States[23]. Research into xylitol use in human sinus cavities is lacking, although a study shows xylitol efficacy against sinusitis in rabbits [3].
Note: I would edit the main page, but I know moderators would just undo my changes, so.... this either gets in there some other way or it doesn't. You decide. Anonymous — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.164.52.242 ( talk) 01:55, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
In the first section tap water is recommended. Unboiled tap water is reportedly what caused the deaths. If people only read the first section and do what it says they could get infected. Consider moving the warning up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.192.187.53 ( talk) 21:48, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
Is the chlorination in municipal water systems adequate to kill the amoeba that causes death? CountMacula ( talk) 05:38, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
This article repeats the 2 deaths so many times for no reason, It barely goes 2 paragraphs before mentioning it again, honestly 2 deaths in 80? years of usage is very low. 184.88.37.235 ( talk) 15:57, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
In the section "Solutions used for nasal irrigation", I suggest that the assertion that "...can be carried out using ordinary tap water, this is not safe" either be removed or be backed up with documentation. Since the section "Nasal irrigation warning" documents that "even light chlorination will kill" Naegleria fowleri, and since ordinary tap water in every reasonably modern nation is normally treated sufficiently to kill that parasite, it seems unreasonably alarmist to claim that tap water is ordinarily "not safe". Wikipedia may as well maintain a list of people who have died from rare intestinal infections from drinking ordinary tap water. Sue D. Nymme ( talk) 02:35, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Someone added a "dubious" tag (May 2013) to a comment under Method that irrigating with excessive pressure can damage or infect the ear canal. This isn't rocket science. Blowing one's nose in such a way that exerts too much pressure can do the same thing. I have removed the "dubious" tag.
The information might be better placed under the section discussing the negative consequences of nasal irrigation, with just a note under Method that only gentle pressure is required. KC 15:58, 19 April 2016 (UTC) KC 15:58, 19 April 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boydstra ( talk • contribs)
The Sanskrit word and explanation given in this article, should be netī with a long vowel, not to be confused with neti with a short vowel. Here's an online Sanskrit dictionary as a reference [1] Note it shows the word in IAST as netī, not neti. This is a different word from the one in /info/en/?search=Neti_neti, which is formed as sandha from na + iti, but that word is the one used herein. Therefore the na + iti explanation is incorrect etymology for this term. 73.251.172.82 ( talk) 19:29, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
References
"Chitosan is an emerging biomaterial used in the field of ENT (Otolaryngology) which shows promise in reducing inflammation after sinus surgery. [1] [2] Chitosan is used as a additive in nasal irrigation because of these properties."
Valentine does not mention "nasal irrigation"
The PLOS paper says "Chitosan, prepared from chitin, has been long known to be an effective hemostatic agent [13]. A novel gel has been formed by cross-linking chitosan and dextran derivatives (CD gel) for use as a hemostatic agent after nasal surgery [14]."
How does either of this support the text added to this article? Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 15:54, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: PMC format (
link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
Were does this ref support this text?
"CPAP usage Nasal congestion and nasal stuffiness are common reasons for CPAP failure, especially during the first several weeks of the initiation of treatment. A sinus rinse and nasal irrigation with a saline solution may be beneficial in improving outcomes as it relates to CPAP compliance. [1]"
Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 06:06, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
References
The second sentence says, "The practice is reported to be beneficial with only minor side effects." Is reported by whom? Is it prescribed by doctors? Have scientific studies shown it to be effective and safe? The whole business sounds suspicious, especially in light of the recent fatality. HowardMorland ( talk) 05:51, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
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Somewhat humorously, the article says clinical guidelines indicate saline nasal irrigation for acute and chronic sinusitis, but then turns around and cites a study that says there is weak evidence for that indication. As an aside, the results/conclusions section of that study is worded in a way that would normally warrant a "There is no good clinical evidence to use nasal irrigation for chronic sinusitis" from the anti-fringe editors. However, I've found a more recent review study that does seem to think there is sufficient study to indicate its use for chronic sinusitis: [4]
List of relevant studies: [5]
MarshallKe ( talk) 17:20, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Ideal sources for Wikipedia's health content are defined in the guideline
Wikipedia:Identifying reliable sources (medicine) and are typically
review articles. Here are links to possibly useful sources of information about Nasal irrigation.
|
Archives
| |
|
This is dubious. Other sources online suggest that the proper amount of salt in an isotonic saline solution is 0.9%, not 0.9 grams per litre which is equal to 0.09%. It is also given as if it is quoted from somewhere but no source is provided. -- B.D.Mills ( T, C) 05:42, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
B.D.Mills is correct. To be precise, a 0.9% by weight solution of NaCl in water is isotonic (has the same osmotic pressure of water)as human blood plasma and the contents of red blood cells. See Medline Plus Medical Encyclopedia, http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/003463.htm "Normal values range from 280 to 303 milliosmoles per kilogram." and WebMD, http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/serum-osmolality?page=2 "280–300 milliosmoles per kilogram (mOSm/kg) of water". By calculation, a 0.9% by weight solution has 9 g NaCl per 1000 grams of solution = 9.08 g NaCl per 1000 g of water = 0.155 moles of NaCl per kg of water. Assuming NaCl is fully disassociated in water, this results in 0.310 osmoles/kg of water. The CRC Handbook of Chemistry and Physics, 60th Edition (1979), CRC Press, page D-261 gives the osmolality of a 0.9% NaCl solution as 0.287 osmoles/kg. Barton A. Smith ( talk) 23:55, 1 January 2009 (UTC)
I have amended the article accordingly. Colonel Warden ( talk) 00:32, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
The current instructions for an isotonic solution say that 1 tsp salt per pint is isotonic and 1 tsp salt plus 1 tsp baking soda per pint is also isotonic. Can this be right? Is the molarity of baking soda so much less? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.225.2.143 ( talk) 10:40, 6 November 2009 (UTC)
I recently came here to find the recommended solution after having a very good experience with a commercial product. 1 tsp each of salt and baking soda per pint of water was significantly stronger than the commercial solution. So while the info about how to create an isotonic solution may be accurate, it may be useful to #1 confirm as 130.225.2.143 stated above that the addition of baking soda does not require a reduction in salt to remain isotonic, and #2 to offer a range of typical solution strengths so that people can start on the weak end and adjust upward as needed. HumanJHawkins ( talk) 01:27, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
I too have noticed that the measurement of salt/soda seems to be misleading. The article specifies 1 teaspoon of salt and 1 teaspoon of baking soda, yet the reference (19) [1] specifies two to three heaped teaspoons of salt and one teaspoon of baking soda. 2-3:1 ratio appears a lot close to the commercial products from my experience, and agrees with the professional advise that I had as well. -- SteveLang ( talk) 11:23, 1 July 2010 (UTC)
Does anybody have any objections to converting the recipe of home-made solution to metric? Aside from being the international standard, I don't have a good feel for how much something is in US units. You could tell me to add 100 teaspoons to a gallon and I wouldn't have a clue. Rknight ( talk) 02:54, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Anyone care to check my math? Rknight ( talk) 23:26, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
So, which of the paranasal sinuses do these techniques clear?
Hey yo, like any treatment, nasal irrigationisn't perfect. I found an abstract (mined it from the netti pot article, read through it and elaborated for this article), regarding long-term use and the harm this causes. Additionally, I made light of the fact that efficacy studies haven'T really been conducted on the technique. I titled this section 'contraindications and harm', I hope this is neutral enough for everyone :). Talonxpool ( talk) 21:04, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
I agree with the proposal by Enric Naval. It's not clear to me that pulsatile irrigation is independently notable, and from an organisational point of view it's better if it's covered by this article, anyway. (This decision could of course be revisited if and when the material on pulsatile irrigiation grows significantly.) Hans Adler 10:35, 11 March 2011 (UTC)
you guys are so misinformed there are hundreds of clinicals on the efficacy of pulsatile irrigation which is used for surgery, debridement, burn centers and many other applicaions Thank god for Google Wikipedia is irrelevant moderated by folks that have little or no expertise — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.250.66.181 ( talk) 05:32, 22 April 2016 (UTC)
I suggest we merge Nasal douche to here because it is the same thing! 96.244.254.20 ( talk) 17:31, 6 April 2011 (UTC)
I think most of the info in Neti_Pot is already here. It looks like the term Neti Pot is trademarked, so a redirect here would be more appropriate. Rknight ( talk) 19:58, 12 April 2011 (UTC)
Merge it. Undo the split mentioned by Adler. Also, "Neti Pot" is not trademarked, at least not in the US. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andyberks ( talk • contribs) 19:34, 22 October 2011 (UTC)
Someone want to tackle the yoga origins section, and remove all the unnecessary digression from the Methods section? Rknight ( talk) 05:51, 13 April 2011 (UTC)
Ok, I just didn't feel comfortable with this in the article. It doesn't seem to deserve its own section, and it needs some serious cleanup. Please begin a list of sources, and indicate whether they are secondary or primary as per WP:MEDRS Rknight ( talk) 06:12, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
The Pulsatile Nasal/Sinus Irrigation can be said to be the most advanced citation needed nasal irrigation method, which is based on anatomy and physiology of nasal mucociliary function and motor function citation needed (mucociliary movement). It can irrigate warm saline water into one of the nasal passage through the nasal cavity, paranasal sinuses, nasopharynx, and come out from the other nasal passage. Since it doesn’t have the strong pressure as the squeeze bottle citation needed, the water flow is gentle, so it is safe and will not cause injury or bleeding nasal mucosa. citation needed More over, the water flow pulsates at frequencies similar to that of the natural mucociliary movement citation needed, it can more effectively remove thick mucus and pus bacterial toxins. citation needed During use, your head should bend down, which from the anatomical point of view, it is easy for the water to flow into the nasal cavity from one side, around the nasopharynx and exit from the other side. It also suggests a much lower chance to flow into Eustachian tube or throat, and in turn, the patient would feel more comfortable. citation needed [1]
The "Sarvikuono" (word play on the Finnish name for Rhinoceros, literally "horn nose") style nasal irrigation pot link to fi.wikipedia image is more common than other methods featured in the article in at least Scandinavia, and the image origin lists the image to be from de.wikipedia originally. It relies on gravity and the tapering shape of the spout to produce positive pressure. The pot is sold with a measuring spoon that is proportioned to give a filled pot the correct salinity in the finished solution. I own two of them, and they are far easier to use than the current article's description makes the use of this method sound like. You tilt your head to the right and down, pour the saline solution into your left nostril, breathe through your mouth, and let the water run through and out the other nostril. Refill the pot, and repeat with the other side. Doesn't sound scientific, but would make it sound a wee tad easier to use than the current article. 98.237.196.152 ( talk) 03:16, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
Proposed revision to the last statement:
this: Xylitol is commonly used to prevent acute otitis media in Europe and dental caries in the United States,[23] but research into xylitol use in the sinus cavities is lacking.
to this: Xylitol is commonly used to prevent acute otitis media in Europe and dental caries in the United States[23]. Research into xylitol use in human sinus cavities is lacking, although a study shows xylitol efficacy against sinusitis in rabbits [3].
Note: I would edit the main page, but I know moderators would just undo my changes, so.... this either gets in there some other way or it doesn't. You decide. Anonymous — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.164.52.242 ( talk) 01:55, 20 September 2011 (UTC)
In the first section tap water is recommended. Unboiled tap water is reportedly what caused the deaths. If people only read the first section and do what it says they could get infected. Consider moving the warning up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.192.187.53 ( talk) 21:48, 18 December 2011 (UTC)
Is the chlorination in municipal water systems adequate to kill the amoeba that causes death? CountMacula ( talk) 05:38, 1 March 2012 (UTC)
This article repeats the 2 deaths so many times for no reason, It barely goes 2 paragraphs before mentioning it again, honestly 2 deaths in 80? years of usage is very low. 184.88.37.235 ( talk) 15:57, 26 April 2012 (UTC)
In the section "Solutions used for nasal irrigation", I suggest that the assertion that "...can be carried out using ordinary tap water, this is not safe" either be removed or be backed up with documentation. Since the section "Nasal irrigation warning" documents that "even light chlorination will kill" Naegleria fowleri, and since ordinary tap water in every reasonably modern nation is normally treated sufficiently to kill that parasite, it seems unreasonably alarmist to claim that tap water is ordinarily "not safe". Wikipedia may as well maintain a list of people who have died from rare intestinal infections from drinking ordinary tap water. Sue D. Nymme ( talk) 02:35, 11 November 2012 (UTC)
Someone added a "dubious" tag (May 2013) to a comment under Method that irrigating with excessive pressure can damage or infect the ear canal. This isn't rocket science. Blowing one's nose in such a way that exerts too much pressure can do the same thing. I have removed the "dubious" tag.
The information might be better placed under the section discussing the negative consequences of nasal irrigation, with just a note under Method that only gentle pressure is required. KC 15:58, 19 April 2016 (UTC) KC 15:58, 19 April 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Boydstra ( talk • contribs)
The Sanskrit word and explanation given in this article, should be netī with a long vowel, not to be confused with neti with a short vowel. Here's an online Sanskrit dictionary as a reference [1] Note it shows the word in IAST as netī, not neti. This is a different word from the one in /info/en/?search=Neti_neti, which is formed as sandha from na + iti, but that word is the one used herein. Therefore the na + iti explanation is incorrect etymology for this term. 73.251.172.82 ( talk) 19:29, 14 January 2017 (UTC)
References
"Chitosan is an emerging biomaterial used in the field of ENT (Otolaryngology) which shows promise in reducing inflammation after sinus surgery. [1] [2] Chitosan is used as a additive in nasal irrigation because of these properties."
Valentine does not mention "nasal irrigation"
The PLOS paper says "Chitosan, prepared from chitin, has been long known to be an effective hemostatic agent [13]. A novel gel has been formed by cross-linking chitosan and dextran derivatives (CD gel) for use as a hemostatic agent after nasal surgery [14]."
How does either of this support the text added to this article? Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 15:54, 25 March 2017 (UTC)
References
{{
cite journal}}
: CS1 maint: PMC format (
link) CS1 maint: unflagged free DOI (
link)
Were does this ref support this text?
"CPAP usage Nasal congestion and nasal stuffiness are common reasons for CPAP failure, especially during the first several weeks of the initiation of treatment. A sinus rinse and nasal irrigation with a saline solution may be beneficial in improving outcomes as it relates to CPAP compliance. [1]"
Doc James ( talk · contribs · email) 06:06, 28 March 2017 (UTC)
References
The second sentence says, "The practice is reported to be beneficial with only minor side effects." Is reported by whom? Is it prescribed by doctors? Have scientific studies shown it to be effective and safe? The whole business sounds suspicious, especially in light of the recent fatality. HowardMorland ( talk) 05:51, 8 December 2018 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Nasal irrigation. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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This message was posted before February 2018.
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(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 18:02, 12 February 2018 (UTC)
Somewhat humorously, the article says clinical guidelines indicate saline nasal irrigation for acute and chronic sinusitis, but then turns around and cites a study that says there is weak evidence for that indication. As an aside, the results/conclusions section of that study is worded in a way that would normally warrant a "There is no good clinical evidence to use nasal irrigation for chronic sinusitis" from the anti-fringe editors. However, I've found a more recent review study that does seem to think there is sufficient study to indicate its use for chronic sinusitis: [4]
List of relevant studies: [5]
MarshallKe ( talk) 17:20, 24 October 2021 (UTC)