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Could there be the IPA instructions for the (orginal French) pronunciation of the name Napoléon Bonaparte? Not all of us are able to pronounce that name "correctly". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.154.75.230 ( talk) 20:55, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
26 August, 2008 Stephen Smith, Naples, Florida, United States.
I am not able to edit the Napoleon Page because I do not have such privledges, but I do know that Napoleon was also titled "Emperor of Elba" when he was exiled to the island in 1814.
I've actually done some more research, I've spoken with J.David.Markham about the matter, he is a noted Napoleonic Historian. He informed me of the contrary, though I am unsure about his convictions on the matter. I intend to settle this matter once and for all. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
204.29.160.175 (
talk) 04:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
He was entitled "Sovereign of Elba". He retained the title of Emperor for the rest of his life, as this is the established rule when a crowned head of state abdicates, or passes the reins to a successor. A similar case would therefore be the late Queen Elizabeth (HM the Queen Mother) of the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada etc. etc. Executeur ( talk) 20:02, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Who governed France during the times when Napoleon was away at battle? Funnyhat 17:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
You are reasoning as if France could have been governed by a single person. That might have been possible during ancien régime with its many remnants of a highly decentralised feudal system. Napoléon had an very low need for sleep and was probably not lazy. Yet I doubt he could have made all governmental decisions. Also, I know that the Napoleonic Code was written by a group of intellectuals of which he was the leader. I think the Bonaparte regime consisted of a small group of people of which Napoléon was the most important. All decision he could not made the others did for him. When he was away on campaigns he probably did what he could to control the French government and what he could not do the other members had his permission to do. However, this is only an educated guess. Anyone who really know?
2007-07-25 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
I have learned that Napoléon was extremely diligent. Yet I don’t think all necessary governmental decisions could have been made by a single person. Anyone who know what other persons the Bonaparte regime consisted of?
2008-01-19 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
2008-06-17 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
2008-09-28 I know at different times that his brother Jospeh also did some of the work while he was away, which I know for a fact was the case during the 100 days campaign at Waterloo.
2008-10-03 "If Mike Shanahan was Napoleon, then this [Arrowhead] is his Waterloo." - Dan Dierdorf September 28, 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suckafish69 ( talk • contribs) 00:16, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
2008-11-2 Steve Smith, Jacksonville Florida " Some of the information that is above my post is wrong. Napoleon was very diligent, and often worked 18 hour days. I actually know that it was his habit to go to bed at like 8 O clock at night and then wake up at like 12 at night and spend the rest of the night working. He also might take cat naps during the course of the day. Napoleon founded the first modern "Think tank" when he created the French State Council. The State council consisted of 50 people, but I am unsure as to how many of them contributed to the actually governing of the nation on a day to day basis. Napoleon was very involved in governing the nation, even while on Campaign. He increased the efficiency of the communication system of France, and specifically the army dramatically. Through a series of fire tower signals I know that a message could make its way from Venice to France in as little as 9 minutes. Later on, while he was in Russia for example, he had a primitive Telegraph that involved tubes, that helped in in governing the grand army. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveSmith35024 ( talk • contribs) 21:26, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
The GA review has been archived. Dr. Cash ( talk) 20:37, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Quote from The Book of Lists (1977, "10 Ghastly Ghosts", p. 272-275):
The author of this section of the book was Philip Cunliffe-Jones. The web produces no corroboration of this story, or maybe I've been looking in the wrong places. Is there any truth to it whatsoever? -- JackofOz ( talk) 07:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
i think he looked skary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a sceptic I feel a need to protest against such assertations. For the event of Napoléon's death whe have at least five eywittness accounts. The five eywittnesses where Francesco Antommarchi, Archibald Arnott, Henri Gratien Bertrand, Louis Joseph Marchand and Charles Tristan de Montholon. Charles' testimony differs radically from those of the others and he is now considered a frequent liar. If an unknown man with a reddish beard had turned up at Napoléon's deathbed at least one of the others would had noticed it. Please note that beards had been unfashionable for about a century and would remain so for about a decade. To me the story seems to be a fiction by someone who don't know much about Napoléon's death.
2008-11-04 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
I have read that twentieth century analysis of Napoleon's hair demonstrated conclusively that Signore Buonaparte died of arsenic poisoning, presumably administered by his British jailers on the South Atlantic island of Saint Helena where he was being held since his second and last surrender. Dick Kimball ( talk) 10:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I have written a summary of the current state of knowledge on Napoléon’s death. It is written in Swedish but I will post an English translation as soon as I have made one. Right now I only want to assure you that the sentries could not had poisoned him since they did not handle his food and drink. At the very least they did not handle food and drink specifically aimed for him. This was done by his French-spoken followers. As such the murderer must have been one of them.
2008-07-28 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
This is the whole text, except for a note on who translated a quote from French to Swedish. I have just divided it into three parts. The first one goes through the evidence and debunks counter-arguments. The second one describes chronologically what happened. The third deals with the question of responsibility. It is almost too long but the purpose of the original Swedish text had two purposes. One was to explain what Napoléon died from. The other was to debunk some misconceptions on Napoléon's time on Saint Helena. I have tried to came as close as possible to what I wanted to say without violating the rules for correct English. For safety's sake it has been proof-read by the Swedish sceptic Peter Olausson.
“Napoléon was poisoned to death. There are four
evidences for this. The first is his symptoms during the five years he was ill. The least interrupted description comes from
Louis Joseph Marchand. As the leading of the three
valets he saw Napoléon almost every day. In his diary Louis wrote down what he witnessed on
Saint Helena. It was amongst other things how the ex-emperor felt and which symptoms he had. His observations are confirmed by the testimony from Napoléon's good friend
Henri Gratien Bertrand. Henri held a formal office but had no real tasks. One could well say that he got paid for keeping Napoléon company. In addition there are case records from the four
physicians which examined Napoléon:
Barry O'Meara, John Stokoe,
Francesco Antommarchi and
Archibald Arnott. The person they describe is NOT a
cancer patient. Instead they describe a person who repeatedly have been poisoned by certain substances.
The second
evidence is the state of the inner organs at the
autopsy.
Francesco was the most qualified person who was present. He found no
tumour much less the
metastases which would have been required to kill him. The assertion that he would have done so is based on a mistranslation. On the contrary his description of the inner organs matches exactly the poisoning that will be explained later. However, Francesco did not know this: he thought that Napoléon had died from
hepatitis. The necessary knowledge simply did not exist yet.
The third
evidence is the fact that the dead Napoléon did not
decompose normally. Despite that he had not been intentionally
mummified the body had barely decomposed at all in 19 years! It has been pointed out that a carcass can be preserved under certain circumstances. But those circumstances mean constant cold alternatively a very dry
climate. No-one of the circumstances reined on the site where Napoléon was buried. The body was never in contact with the earth so chemical interaction with it is eliminated. The innermost coffin was airtight and of metal. If it had been heated up over a bonfire it would had stopped the
decomposition. (The
tin was invented so they knew that it worked but not how.) However, this could not have happened without people noticing. Furthermore, the dead man would have smelled like baked meat when the coffin was opened.
The forth
evidence is the chemical analyses which have been made on hair samples from Napoléon. They have only tested samples which authenticity has been certified by those persons which originally got them from him. (It is thus not enough with hearsay.) On of them even wrote that he had taken the hair himself from the dead Napoléon's body! All the tested hair samples have the same colour and texture. It makes it likely that they came from the same person. Hair samples taken at different occasions have different
arsenic contents. But it is always considerably higher than what is normal. It has been suggested that the arsenic is a contamination as a consequence of the hair being treated with arsenic preparations. It is impossible since the content is precisely as high in the in the middle of the hairs. Furthermore, the hairs taken after his death contained two other poisons too. The last 16
millimetres contained
antimony and the last millimetre
mercury as well. The measurements have been made by several
scientists at different laboratories. Several different methods have been used. Please note that hairs do not suck up things faster than they grow. It makes it on the other hand possible to calculate exactly when the poisoning occurred.
Four of the measurements deviate from the pattern. All the four deviating results have been done with the same measurement equipment. Despite that he hair samples had been taken at different occasions they show the same
arsenic content. It was in turn two and a half times as high as the highest of the other measurements. This ought to say something about how insensitive the measurement equipment is. People which claim that those measurements are reliable also assert that it was normal at the time. It is true that it is possible to get used to arsenic. But that it should hold for a whole population of 26 million is patently absurd. Some claim that people used to utilise arsenic to wash wine barrels and wine bottles. Why would they had utilised a well-known poison for that? Furthermore, Napoléon was moderate drinker. There were thus many people which drunk more wine than him. Others assert that Napoléon fell victim to his own arsenic abuse. Arsenic can really be abused. However, no contemporary testimonies suggest that he had such an addiction. The only thing he was addicted to was
snuff. On the other hand it was the only unhealthy habit that we know he had.
That Napoléon died from
cancer was first suggested by
Charles Tristan de Montholon. It has turned out that he often lied. On
Saint Helena he lied so much that he got the nickname ‘il bugiardo’ (‘the liar’ in
Italian). Several times he asserted things that are against modern
medical knowledge. Sometimes he even contradicted himself! It has been claimed that
metastases from Napoléon are preserved at
Royal College of Surgeons' museum. On the can with alcohol is a label saying that it is a gift from
Barry O'Meara. Unfortunately the tissues in the can are
lymphatic glands not metastases. There is not even any sensible reason to think that they come from Napoléon. Barry was not present at the
autopsy since he had left the island three years earlier. If he had ever operated Napoléon we would have known it. That Napoléon's pants shrunk steadily in size has been taken as evidence that he had died from cancer. On that
toxicologist Pascal Kintz – who did some of the chemical analyses – answered:
‘You don't decide that someone is suffering from cancer by measuring the size of his trousers.’
Napoléon did really lost much in weight before he died. But this was due to severe lack of appetite not due to
cancer. Please note that stomach cancer is not hereditary. It was just supposed to be hereditary by people which had pre-scientific ideas of heredity. Many other diseases have been suggested as causes of Napoléon's death. In most cases they are based on certain symptoms not all or even most! Some are even based on symptoms which
Charles has made up!
High
arsenic contents have also been found in hair that was taken from Napoléon before 1816. Some claim that this must mean that he was not poisoned to death. They have not understood that it was a matter of sub-lethal arsenic poisoning. ‘Sub-lethal’ means potentially lethal but not necessary so. The poisoned may thus survive and recover eventually. It was what happened to Napoléon in 1805, 1812, 1813, 1814 and 1815. When he arrived to
Saint Helena he had completely recovered from the last of them. People which recover from sub-lethal poisoning shows symptoms of chronic arsenic poisoning. Persons which missed the sub-lethal attacks have suggested alternative arsenic sources. Amongst other things one has suspected the wallpaper in Napoléon's bedroom and living-room. The wallpapers where coloured with
Scheele's green. The walls where so damp that they grew mouldy and emitted vapour forms of arsenic. The problem is that the suspicious wallpapers where put up three years AFTER Napoléon fell ill. Furthermore, statistics points against a source in the environment. All in all twelve people where poisoned: six adult men, four adult women, a teenage boy and a little girl. Environmental poisoning affects children at first hand. There where at least three more children in the same house but they did not fell ill. On the other hand two of the affected women did not even live on the same address! Not counting Napoléon three persons died. It was his best friend Franceschi Cipriani, one of the women, ant the little girl. However, in Napoléon's case arsenic was not the ultimate poison as we will see.”
“When Napoléon delivered himself up to the Britons a few friends and servants voluntary followed him. Furthermore an old enemy turned up unexpected. It was
Charles who offered to follow him anywhere. We don’t know why Napoléon accepted him. It may have been because he was so eager to follow him. It may also have been the prospect of having sex with his rather lose wife
Albine Hélène. Yes, he did have sex with her! In June 1816 she had a daughter who was
christened
Hélène de Montholon. We still don’t know who her dad was.
Napoléon's employees and friends treated him as a ruling monarch as long as he lived. Britons which meet him personally spooked to him as a foreign monarch unless he had said that they did not need to. Officially he was called general Bonaparte at the beginning even
lieutenant-general Bonaparte! For a start the party was kept on board a ship that was anchored outside England's coast. For security reasons Napoléon was not allowed to get ashore. During the time the British government discussed what they would do with him. General
Arthur Wellesley (more famous as the duke of Wellington) recommended
Saint Helen. It was easy to guard and had a pleasant
climate. Arthur had visited the island himself when he was on the way home from India. That was the way it of cause got too. The party was transferred to an other ship with destination Saint Helena. 69 days later they where there. It was in October 1815. The Britons tried to make it as comfortable for Napoléon as possible. As long as it did not prevent them from guarding him, of cause. They tried to protect him at least as much as preventing attempted escape. The island was easily made escape-proof. The coasts consist of high, steep rocks. The British government kept track of everyone who went ashore or left the harbour. It was only one more place where it was considered possible to get down to the shore. Every ship who approached the place would be stopped by the British navy.
Napoléon would got to live in a mansion named
Longwood House. But it had to be renovated and extended first. It took about two months. During the time Napoléon lived in a pavilion that was situated in the garden of a rich family's house. There he lived with five male followers. He liked to ride and work in Longwood House' garden. When his legs become too weak to allow riding he instead used to ride in his carriage. Indoors he could read, dictate, play billiards, chess and card games with
Henri. Napoléon preferred outdoor activities. Had he decided to keep indoors he easily become bored.
The first quarter of 1816 Napoléon felt ill for a couple of days in the middle of each month. The followers noticed a general degeneration of his health even if he did not say anything. About the turn of the month April/May he fell ill again. He had been stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. Before he had recovered completely he was stricken one more time. So it continued year after year. No contemporary
physician could tell what Napoléon suffered from. Therefore the repeated sub-lethal poisonings could continue for years. It took until the 1950ies until someone found out what Napoléon had suffered from. It become possible through the publication of
Louis' diaries.
A little more than six weeks before Napoléon died the
arsenic was partly replaced with
antimony. Two days later
Charles offered to nurse him during the nights. It was normally Jean Abram Noverraz' job. But he had suddenly fallen ill. The antimony resulted in violent vomiting. Eventually his stomach was so overworked that he stopped to vomit.
Francesco and
Archibald begun to worry about if he would survive. Charles wrongfully asserted that a certain mercury salt (
calomel) once had saved Napoléon's life. Archibald agreed to give it a chance but not Francesco. Two other
physicians where called in so that they could discuss the issue. All except Francesco let themselves to be subdued. Napoléon was given an enormous dose of the mercury salt. Earlier the same day he had been fooled to swallow a drink that was seasoned with bitter
almonds.
Potassium cyanide from the bitter almonds reacted with the acidity of the stomach and with the mercury salt. The result was other mercury salts,
mercuric cyanide and free
mercury. As a consequence of the poisoning Napoléon now laid helpless in his bed. Within 36 hours after he had swallowed the medicine he had lost his consciousness. After a little more than 48 hours he was dead. It was in the evening the 5th of May 1821. The following day an
autopsy was performed on the dead man. Francesco had company of seven British physicians but it was he who held the scalpel. After the autopsy hair and beard-stubble was shaved off. A cast was made of the front half of the head together with parts of the neck and some of the chest. The dead man was washed and dressed. Eventually the body was laid in a coffin out of tin. The tin coffin was soldered close and placed in one of wood. It was placed in its turn in one of lead which was also soldered close. The lead coffin was placed in one more of wood. Napoléon was buried there on
Saint Helena in a place that is called Sane Valley. There the Britons had built a gave vault out of stone. When Napoléon was dead and buried the followers could return to Europe.
In 1840 king
Louis Philippe decided that Napoléon's coffin should be brought to France. A French ship was sent to
Saint Helena. Several people which had known Napoléon where present when the grave was opened. When the innermost coffin was cut open they got the surprise of their lives. The dead man was almost intact! Everyone who remembered how Napoléon had looked recognised the dead man. The body's high
arsenic content – combined with the two airtight coffins – had stopped almost all decomposition. The three innermost coffins where kept. They where placed in an additional one out of lead then in two more out of wood. (All wooden coffins where made of different woods.) Finally it was laid in a sarcophagus out of red
porphyry in
the Invalides in
Paris. There he lies buried to this day.”
“There where two persons which could had poisoned Napoléon. One was
Charles who was in charge of the wine cellar. The other was the
valet Étienne Saint-Dennis. He was nicknamed Ali. No-one of the two had any good alibi. There are no real
evidence against any of them but the indications against Charles are considerably more. Several times he said to people that a new attack was to be expected. Then he was usually right. Furthermore, he knew several months in advance which symptoms Napoléon would get. He wrote it in letters to his wife which he sent after she had left the island. In present tense he described things that had yet not occurred! 25 years later he wrote a book about his experiences on
Saint Helena. His description differs radically from the other persons'. Certain parts are so artificial that they only add to the suspicions against him. Nothing suggests that Ali knew in advance what would happen to Napoléon. He did not come with any obviously exorbitant assertions either. Something Charles did several times in his book. Ali is also less likely for an other reason. Imagine that someone has poisoned an other man to death 19 years ago. He gets an invitation to be present when the victim's grave is opened. The victim will be shown to him an several others. Would he then accept? Ali was present on Saint Helena when Napoléon's grave was opened. Charles was the only invited one who was not present despite he would have been able.
Many others have been suspected for poisoning Napoléon. Here is a list of them:
§
Hudson Lowe was
governor of
Saint Helena. He had nothing to do with what Napoléon ate and drunk. He has been unfairly blamed for something that he could neither had done nor prevented.
§
Henri and his family where the only followers which did not live in
Longwood House. (They lived in a house nearby.) It was only the last six weeks that he at all handled Napoléon's food and drink. He then helped to nurse Napoléon who had become so weak that he needed help 24 hours a day. It was always in daytime except for the last but one night. Until then Napoléon was worst in the nights when
Charles nursed him.
§
Louis seem to have been the person who most nursed Napoléon. The problem with him is that he was one of the six adult men which had been stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. An assassin who poisons himself is too clumsy to avoid detection!
§ Abram has an excellent alibi. To the day six weeks before Napoléon died he was stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. He barely recovered in time to bid farewell to his dying ruler. By then Napoléon already laid unconscious.
§ Jean Baptiste Pierron was
Longwood House' cook. He did not know which portion would be served to who. Consequentially he could not poison Napoléon without poisoning everyone who ate with him. People which ate with Napoléon rarely fell ill. On the contrary everyone had their own whine bottle which makes the one who was in charge of the wine cellar more suspicious. Sure, Jean served the desserts. But several times Napoléon become worse without eating any dessert.
§ The four
physicians mentioned in the first paragraph have been accused for causing Napoléon's death. The problem is that Napoléon was ill even when no-one of them where there. Furthermore, he was sceptic to physicians. It was easy to count the times he swallowed any medicine at all.
Napoléon may have called
Charles ‘the most faithful of the faithful’. However, he just become fooled by an unusually ingratiating hypocrite. It was how Charles got Napoléon's trust: though his constant ingratiation. Furthermore, Napoléon lived in the illusion that loyalty could be bought. It is hard to think that Charles could had nursed Napoléon – helped him with things he in fact needed help with – without feeling some kind of sympathy. He might had thought something like ‘I have to kill him but I can't let him suffer more than necessary’.
It is entirely possible that
Charles acted on his own. In that case he was solely responsible for Napoléon's death. There is no evidence for any conspiracy. If Napoléon fell victim to any such there where two possible assignors. One was Charles' close friend and France'
crown prince
Charles Philippe de Capet. The crown prince was a well-known intriguer who advocated political assassinations. The other was Charles' adoptive dad
Charles Louis de Sémonville. We know that Charles visited him shortly before he joined Napoléon. It is also possible that both where involved. The adoptive dad would then had conveyed a commission which he had got from the crown prince. Was there an assignor Charles would not have had any choice. Had he refused he would have been killed so that he could not reveal anything. Someone else had followed Napoléon with secret commission to poison him.”
I am not an expert, just an ordinary sceptic fascinated by Napoléon. But I DO have written sources to all my claims. Questioners will be answered to the best of my ability.
2008-10-06 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
This review is transcluded from Talk:Napoleon I of France/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Thank you for your GA nomination. I have now reviewed the article according to the Good article criteria, and posted the review below.
1.1 Prose
1.2 Manual of Style
I've made a few tweaks here and there:
3 Coverage
I thoroughly disagree with the above comment. Napoleon is presented in this article as "personally anti-semitic", in flagrant contradiction with the content of the article on him, and the article "Napoleon and the Jews", in which we learn that he was centuries ahead of his time in treating Jews as first class citizens throughout Europe (and incurring the hostility of just about every major power for doing so). His(supposed) anti-semitism, as referred to in the article, is ridiculous: when you read about his liberating and assimilating the Jews and follow the link to the article on anti-semitism (with an obvious section on the Nazi regime and the Night of Cristal), it's difficult to see what basis (and I should add that no reference is cited to justify the claim that he was "personally antisemitic") there is for saying that he wasn't a philosemite. For the sake of encyclopedic neutrality, it would be normal to cite an author who made such a claim, but there are many more (including Jewish authors and statesmen) who consider Napoleon as their liberator. I therefore propose that the phrase "Napoleon was personally anti-semitic" be removed, or modified to reflect the fact that it is an opinion, and not an established fact. Executeur ( talk) 20:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
As I said there are many sources who would take exception to the allegation that he was anti-semitic. Ben Weider quotes a statement he made in reply to anti-semitic opponents of his policy of assimilation within France "This is not the way to solve the Jewish question. I will never accept any proposaIs that will obligate the Jewish people to leave France, because to me the Jews are the same as any other citizen in our country. It takes weakness to chase them out of the country, but it takes strength to assimilate them." You can find it on the link to his article on the subject.
McLynn's argument is based on the premise that forbidding usury was an attack against the Jews, rather than against usurers (not all of whom were Jewish), which misses the point that Napoleon's policy was an assimilationist one: the Jews were to be equal citizens and preserve their religion, but they were accordingly ruled by the same laws as other citizens and their religion was organised by the Sanhedrin. If you compare the article "Napoléon et les Juifs" with "Napoleon and the Jews", you'll find that there's a different slant depending on whether it's the French article ("assimilation = good") or the English one "assimilation = ambiguous". It's a cultural impass. In the article "Napoleon and the Jews", the allegation of antisemitism is left in, but balanced against Napoleon's own quoted opinions on the subject. And as I said above, in his day anti-semitism was socially acceptable, so I think we can consider that he was going against accepted opinion, given that he was seen as so favourable to the Jews that the Russian Orthodox Church labelled him the "Anti Christ and Enemy of God"(Vincent Cronin, Napoleon, HarperCollins 1994, p315)... titles normally reserved for the Devil! Executeur ( talk) 17:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
As the section on the cause of his death already runs over 200 words, this link may interest you http://www.jewishtribune.ca/TribuneV2/content/view/553/5/ Executeur ( talk) 17:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
5 Stability
6 Images
I have placed the article on hold to allow the above concerns to be addressed. This will last for approximately one week, although can be extended if constructive editing is still taking place. I'll check back here regularly, and please get in touch if you have any questions. Regards, EyeSerene talk 09:08, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the improvements you have made to this article. I now have no hesitation in passing it as a Good article, and have listed it as such as WP:GA. For further improvement in the future, the "Notes and references" section could be divided into separate Footnotes and References, and a parenthetical referencing system might be useful in trimming the list a bit.
Great job; well done! EyeSerene talk 16:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Napoleon had four physicians during the span of his last years. The first two were mad men, eventually kicked out his so called "Emperor's palace". The next 2 gave him poison, that at the time were things that healed you. But really they made him even sicker and dipose of his guts thru his intestinal track. Some recall him slithering and moping on the ground as if he were a snake.He locked himself inside his bedroom and refused to eat or drink for 2 days when news spread Josephine had died. His last words were "France, the army, my son, Josephine". And then,..the immortal never forgotten emperor .....died. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.28.49.134 ( talk) 03:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
You are mixing up a great deal here. First, I see no reason to think that Barry O'Meara or John Stokoe where mad. Secondly, Napoléon rarely swallowed any medicine at all. Third, Josephine died in 1814: a year befor Napoléon artrived to Saint Helena. Forth, the famous last words where made up by Charles Tristan de Montholon who has turn out to be a frequent liar. I will post a longer description of his exile, illness and death under the subtile ”Napoleon's Death” as soon as it has been proof-reed by my fellow Swedish sceptic Peter Olausson.
2008-10-01 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
I should express myself more clearly. How many factual errors can you fit into just seven sentences? These are the errors I can find:
1. I see no reason to think that Barry Edward O'Meara was mad. The same is true for John Stokoe.
2. Barry Edward O'Meara was sent away because the governor thought he was the poisoner. If that had been true Napoléon would have recovered compleatly after Barry left. This never occurred. Instead he remained more or less ill until he died. John Stokoe was sent away because he had taken a bribe from Napoléon to send a special letter to his wife Marie-Louise.
3. Longwood House is not a palace, it is a jerry-built mason.
4. Francesco Antommarchi did not make Napoléon worse. In fact, Napoléon was less ill in mid-1820 than a year before when he had no physician. If had been Archibald Arnott who had made him worse his disease would have changed character after they first met. Napoléon’s disease did change character but this happened a week before Archibald examined him for the first time. Anyway, Napoléon was sceptic to physicians and rarely swallowed any medicine at all.
5. The formulation “dipose of his guts thru his intestinal track” is meaningless to me. Please look up the words “ gut” and “ intestinal tract”.
6. Joséphine de Beauharnais died in May 1814. Napoléon was told about her death when he ruled on Elba. I can well understand that he become severely depressed. However, claiming that he neither ate nor drunk for two days seams like an exaggeration to me.
7. Your claimed last words are a corruption of the famous last words made up by Charles Tristan de Montholon. I am not sure about his real last words but they might well have been “Give me my chamber-pot”. (This was probably just a standard phase since what he really needed was help to relieve himself.) I know he said so several times – and barely anything else – the day before he died. By the evening he was no longer able to speak. By four a clock the next morning he had lost his consciousness. 14 hours later he was dead.
If you have not already done so please read my inlays under the subtitle ”Napoleon's Death”. I know it is much but it would be very enlightening for you.
2009-01-17 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
Tpbradbury: Do you mean that accents, cédille & others are forbidden in en:Wikipedia? It hurts my eyes terribly to see Champs Elysees and Republique francaise. In my opinion as a professional book editor working with six languages, even in a text in English, these are mistakes because one should either anglicise the word or, if kept in its language of origin, respect the original spelling. In N's article: 3rd line of *Origins & education*, one can read "though he later adopted the more French-sounding Napoleon Bonaparte". Well, if *he*, that is N, adopted the more French-sounding Napoleon Bonaparte, it stands to reason that *he* also adopted the accent on Napoléon.
It is also difficult for me to understand why accents should be banished in N's article while they are all over en:wikipedia. For instance, coup d'etat directs the reader to Coup d'état, Josephine de Beauharnais to Joséphine de Beauharnais, Champs Elysees to Champs Élysées.
Furthermore, does it make any sense to give a quote in French & remove all the accents? This is note n° 6 of N's article, which I had corrected, but that was immediately reverted: Letter published in (1870) in Henri Plon: Correspondance Napoleon. Dumaine, p.420. ASIN B0013Z9HGO. ^ Article 1.- Le Peuple français nomme, et le Senat proclame Napoleon Bonaparte Premier consul à vie. Translation: The French people name, and the Senate proclaims Napoleon Bonaparte First Consul for life Together with the French words without accents, whoever first wrote the article did not give the correct title for Henri Plon's publication of N's letters in 1870. The title is not "Correspondance Napoleon" but "Correspondance de Napoléon Ier".
Omitting an accent in French can change the meaning of the sentence as the accent on a verb indicates past participle tense. For instance: "Le chasseur tue pendant la chasse..." (= The hunter kills during the hunt) vs "Le chasseur tué pendant la chasse..." (= The hunter killed during the hunt). If the accent is omitted when the sentence is inserted in a text in English, then the reader will not know whether the hunter killed or was killed.
All this being said, and as your corrections came while I was in the middle of my own, I am stopping doing any editing on this article. It irks me to see the numerous historical inexactitudes with which en:wikipedia is filled, and have some silly rules keep serious editors from participating in the real *meat of the subject*, while vandals are allowed to flourish. Frania W. ( talk) 20:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
P.S. By the way, why is there such a choice in the insert box listing "latin" if we can not use such symbols as Á á É é Ê ê ë ú Œ œ ? Ridiculous!
The title of the article is Napoleon I of France (no accent). If you read above, when taken through the GA review it was pointed-out by the reviewer that the article was inconsistent in its use of diacritics so in order to make it consistent I took the diacritics out to be consistent with the title and the reviewer agreed. It seems difficult to justify not putting diacritics in the title and then suddenly putting them in the article. I think Napoleon is unsual because it's a name English speakers anglicise by not putting the accent in but they keep accents for other words such as in Coup d'état hence why many articles have diacritics. I think it might be possible to include some of the diacritics you inputted without being inconsistent. Thanks for pointing out some errors and please note any historical inexactitudes. I see you've written this on the talk page? it makes more sense just to write notes to me on my talk page. Tom B ( talk) 20:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Good evening, Tom & Russ:
(1) I have come to terms with Napoléon losing his accent in English, that's the way the Ameranglos write it, and I accept it. But it should not mean that there was a consensus between the English & the Americans to remove all diacritics from all French words in all Anglo texts.
(2) Please note that when I edited the article, except for the one "Napoléon Bonaparte" saying how Bonaparte himself chose to spell his name in French (which was my reason to put an accent on that Napoléon), I had not touched the other Napoleon of the text, thus respecting the Anglo-American entente cordiale on this point!
(3) In my opinion, the argument of inconsistency is being carried too far. If no accents are to be used, then let us not use foreign words & let's have every word anglicised. Instead of talking about Napoleon's *Grande Armée* camouflaged as Grande Armee, then let's write Napoleon's Great Army but please no Grande Armee. In other words, either French or English, but no amputated French terms.
(4) Should we want to carry this no diacritics policy throughout en:wikipedia, are we going to redirect articles such as those on André Le Nôtre, Madame de Sévigné, Marie-Thérèse de France, Champs Élysées to Andre Le Notre, Madame de Sevigne, Marie-Therese de France, Champs Elysees?
(5) As for not respecting French orthography in a quote in French, it makes no sense in an encyclopedic article. A letter is a letter. e is not é or è or ë or ê. And if you have ou (=or) and où (=where) what imbroglio would be created in skipping the accent on ù! The same with à (= at, to) and a (= has). And I shall not tell you what one would be writing if skipping the cedilla under the c of leçon!
I rest my case. Frania W. ( talk) 23:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello. I just wanted to point out the fact that Napoleon's wallpaper may have been his murderer. According to [ [2]], if Napoleon's wallpaper was green during his time imprisoned in Saint Helena, the green dye on the wall might have been Scheele Green, a colouring pigment which was cheap and easy to make. When damp and moldy, Scheele Green would let off arsenic in vapour form, and considering the large amounts of time spent inside his room, Napoelon may very well have died from inhaled arsenic poisoning. A woman named Shirley Bradley had come forward with a piece of Napoleon's wallpaper which she had found in an old scrapbook, and when it was tested for arsenic, small quantities were found. It was, however, impossible to find out whether this really was Napoleon's wallpaper until the painting "Death of Napoleon" by Charles de Steuben was studied closely, and guess what? The wallpaper on the room is the same pattern as was seen on Shirley Bradley's little piece.
Just some food for thought...maybe this should be mentioned in the article?
Harry54321987 ( talk) 18:14, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
< http://www.grand-illusions.com/articles/napoleons_wallpaper/>
- Hmm...just read over the article again and realize that there is a note which mentions it briefly...in my opinion it should be added into the "Cause of Death" section, since it is a theory on his death.
Harry54321987 ( talk) 19:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
You are wrong about the painting. I have seen a copy of it in higher resolution and I can tell that the colour – but not pattern – is the same. The painting shows a geometric pattern while the preserved pice of wallpaper has flowers on it. The paitning was made a few years later by a man who was not there. He had access to the furniture and had the opportunity to meet those people on the painting which was still alive. The depiction of the dying man really resemblence his so the artist probably used his death mask as the model for him. About the wallpapers he may only had been told what colour they where. However, the preserved pice really was on the wall when Napoléon died. I belived the wallpaper hypotesis myself untill Ben Weider told me that they where put up three years after Napoléon fell ill. As such the mouldy wallpapers could not had made him ill in the first place. Please read my inlays under the subtitle ”Napoleon's Death”. If you want to continue the discussion I prefer to do it there.
2008-10-13 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
Thanks very much for clearing that up, Lena. If you have a high-resolution copy of The Death of Napoleon, do you think you could send it to me at dj-its@hotmail.com? I've never been able to get my hands on one... Harry54321987 ( talk) 21:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
I have searched a lot myself but the best I have found on the Web is this:
http://www.napoleon.org/en/popup_zoom.asp?identity=157050&type=object
A sharper version in greyscale can be found in “Assassination at St. Helena” by Sten Forshufvud and Ben Weider. If you really want I can scan it within a week and send it to you together with a list of who is who in the image. The list is currently written in Swedish. However, it should not be too hard to translate it into English. I personally prefer the older sketch since I consider it more realistic. It can be found on Wikimedia Commons:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Steuben_-_Mort_de_Napoleon.jpg
The dying man lies strait down but with his head on high pillow(s). Henri Gratien Bertrand must have been very tiered since he had been kept awake for a day and a night, then slept for a day, then had kept awake for an other night and a day. He is sitting in a relaxed pose resulting from trying to subside compleatly into the chair while still wearing his bullet-proof west. In general, people behave the much way I would expect them to do. Louis Joseph Marchand (he with the large, dark sideburns) seem shocked and four other persons burst into cry. One of them is Jean Abram Noverraz (he who sits on the floor in the lower right corner). In the final painting he just bows his head, keeps his eyes closed and looks sad. I consider that a less likely reaction.
2008-12-30 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
At a second thought I remember that a high resolution colour version was printed in “Illustrerad Vetenskap” ( Scandinavia’s largest popular scientific magazine) in 2001. I don’t have the issue myself and I don’t remember which issue it was. What I do have is a greyscale copy of the article in question. The picture of this painting is missing since it was intentionally covered when the article was copied. I then thought that it was much less realistic than really is the case. Those are the reasons I can remember:
¤ I thought the climate of Saint Helena was hotter than it is. The island is tropical but not so very hot. The surrounding seas are colder than you would expect from the latitude. In fact, without the global warming experienced since the 1980ies there would not be any tropical cyclones in the South Atlantic. Altitude also plays a roll as Saint Helena has a quite upland character and is highly hilly. So European summer clothes should not have been any problem.
¤ I thought Napoléon’s existence on Saint Helena was as poor as it could be without being in need. This impression was based on a drawing showing him in a manual worker’s clothes. Now I think he only dressed like that when he worked in the garden which he enjoyed. In reality he did what he could to preserve his old imperial habits. This included proper cloths for his followers. He got maintenance from the British government equivalent of the governor’s salary. He also had a great deal of ready money with him from start (think gold and silver coins with his own image). The Britons knew this as they had counted all his possessions when he delivered himself up to them.
¤ I though that the dying man in the painting did not look ill at all. Now I admit that he looks a little pale but not nearly as bad as I imagine (lean with a swollen belly, very pale and yellowish skin, sparse hair grown to almost twice its normal length, sparse facial hair not shaven for at least a week). Since he was unconscious for at least 14 hours before he died he would have looked compleatly relaxed including a slightly open mouth. In general, people look much better than they could credibly have done – like Hollywood stars in fact! For example, Charles Tristan de Montholon (the man holding a large envelope) is portrayed as handsome as Mel Gibson could look with the right make-up. I took Mel as an example because he happens to have the same shape of face as Charles. What I mean is that the exact distances between the features of the face are the same.
Anyway, it is from this printed version I got my ideas of how the wallpapers where depicted. If you want to know more about how and from what Napoléon died please read my inlays under the “Napoleon’s Death”.
2008-12-31 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.19.102 ( talk) 16:44, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Laplace is called a scientific "genius" in the article. The word "genius" is banned as a peacock word in Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.41.51.240 ( talk) 12:52, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
This is, overall, a good short article on Napoleon I. I noticed two errors. First, in the overview, the author speaks of the Grande Armee as being "decimated" in Russia. In fact, it was almost annihilated - decimation, of course, means literally the loss of a tenth.
Second error: The Battle of Borodino did not result in the deaths of 44,000 Russians and 35,000 French. The total casualties on each side were approximately the numbers above (exact figures are unknown and unknowable), including the wounded and missing. Deaths would have totaled somewhere between one third and one half of the total casualties.
Speaking more generally, the author of the article relies far too much on McGlynn and Schom as references. McGlynn is a fine writer, but a professional biographer -- by no means an expert on Napoleon. Schom's book presents his own interpretation of the Corsican, not necessarily a dispassionate one. A broader use of source material would benefit this article.
Jonvt ( talk) 00:06, 27 October 2008 (UTC) Jon Harrison
There is mention of the use of the Napoleonic Code in many places, however, there is no mention of its use in Quebec, Canada. Could this be looked into by someone with the authority to edit such a page, and included in the Napoleon article if deemed appropriate? Dan O'Keefe ( talk • contribs) 21:33, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Shoudn't the article be titled "Napoleon I of the French", since that is how he titled himself? I realised he titled himself "of the French" rather than "of France" as a cheap populistic move, but since that was the official title, shouldn't we have it located there... - Victory's Spear ( talk) 20:51, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
On the subject of Napoleon, I remember reading somewhere that Napoleon put his hand in his coat in that portrait because of a nasty skin condition inflicting him. It had something to do with an insecet parisite called "
Scabies". I had my doubts, but I looked up the article, and it resembled exactly what I read. I can't recall exactly what I read however, but I know Napoleon did this because of a nasty skin disease. Unfortunately, I am unable to cite it, and thus it can not be included. Does anyone else know of this? I honestly recall reading it... it was just a long time ago.
TurtleShroom! :) †Jesus Loves You and Died for you!† 16:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
By the way, I actually read that the entire short Napoleon stereotype is false: a book said Napoleon was actually an inch or so taller than an average French-man.
how did napoleon help start nationalism????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.139.248.249 ( talk) 23:18, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
What was his native language? Corsu? Sca ( talk) 20:54, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
In the article it says that Napoleon's fair treatment of the Jews made him unpopular amongst the orthodox Russians :
he was seen as so favourable to the Jews that the Russian Orthodox Church labelled him the "Anti Christ and Enemy of God" Maybe this was part of the reason the orthodox church resented Napoleon, but I think it was more to do with the atheism of the French Revolution from which Napoleon made his name. Didn't he kill a few Bishops who disagreed with his decisions? I'm not sure, it just seems a bit unfair to suggest the Russians only distrusted him because he didn't persecute Jewish people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.247.72 ( talk) 21:36, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes I am saying that is one of the reasons, but it was not the only one, the Atheism of New France was one of the Orthodox Church's main concerns, saying it was just the anti-semitism is A) being too simplistic and B) portraying the Russians as 2 dimensional villains.
p121 of Geoffrey Hosking's Russia People and Empire it says of Paul the first:
'He Accepted the office of Grand Master of the Knights of Malta after the Knights's home island had fallen to Napoleon, and used the image to cultivate his image as a doughty defender of Christianity against the aggresive atheism of the French Revolution.'-- 81.157.247.72 ( talk) 18:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of Napoleon creating a hospital on the site of the Carmelite monastery at Mount Carmel?
From Mount Carmel entry: "in 1799 the building was finally converted into a hospital, by Napoleon,"
It's an interesting point to addend to this: "In early 1799, he (Napoleon) moved the army into the Ottoman province of Damascus (Syria and Galilee)." -- Anarchoost ( talk) 04:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
The passage linking napolean with the term "bogeyman" is uncited and contradicts the bogeyman page that it links to. The statement in its current form is unsubtantiated and unlikely. I suggest removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sjmtlewy ( talk • contribs) 19:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
It appears that the earlier discussion wasn't complete enough, as my edit was undone when I started changing the names; however, it also seems clear that the current way the article uses both Bonaparte and Napoleon throughout the text without discretion is unacceptable: eg. one sentence refers to him as Napoleon, and then the next uses Bonaparte. This may initially have been done as a way to make sure both terms were used, but it reads poorly and appears scattered and without reason.
The idea suggested above was to use Bonaparte in the article up until his election to First Consul, and Napoleon after that point, in similarity with contemporary French usage. IMO this is best. What do you all think? The Fiddly Leprechaun · Catch Me! 23:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Leprechaun & Tom: Just went thru a edit conflict with Tom but put in my own changes a few minutes later. Hope I did not destroy Tom's work. If you could let me work on this another couple of hours, maybe you could check what I did afterwards. In the meantime, we would not edit conflict.
Also, to answer Leprechaun's request for *a period French newspaper*, here is one found in the article itself, and written, guess by whom??? Bonaparte himself:
Going back to article for a couple of hours. Aurevoir! Frania W. ( talk) 03:03, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Two hours later: Stopped revision at War of the Third Coalition. Waiting for your verdict. Several references in article itself show the use of the surname Bonaparte instead of first name Napoleon. In France, it is common to refer to a man by his last name, so there is nothing strange having Napoléon Bonaparte referred to as Bonaparte. Napoléon was used only when he became emperor. I believe it is much the same in English. For instance, when you talk about a general, you call him general + (first name) + surname as in General (George) Patton, General (George) Washington, not General George or George by itself. General (Charles) de Gaulle, or de Gaulle, but not Charles. I rest my case. Frania W. ( talk) 05:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Tom: First, let me apologise for & explain the reason of *deleting* your revision: as I clicked on Save page an edit conflict came up & I could not save. I did not want to lose my work, waited a while then tried again, which I could not do. In the meantime, your correction had been published. So I picked up my work in order to do a copy & paste then got off the correction page. When I came back, no one else was editing & I was able to paste my revision. Of course, by doing so, I *destroyed* yours and I left the following for you to understand what was happening: tpbradbury was bringing changes as I clicked to save mine. Showing my own changes (fm beginning to Italian campaign) hoping they are not going against Tom's Tom, I hope you understand what happened & accept my apologies.
Today, I read thru Tom's changes and, needing more time to prepare my case, I will not touch the text (on the name issue) until this is resolved between us. However, I noted this in his response above: to me bonaparte looks worse earlier in his life and seems more reasonable as he gets older. Tom, in France, no one knew of *Napoléon* earlier in his life as he was referred to only by the surname of *Bonaparte*. There is nothing *depersonalising* about it. When you read French book in French or look at the caption under a portrait, the name is always *Bonaparte* before his coronation. For instance, the crossing at Arcole which the Anglos title Napoleon crossing at the Bridge of the Arcole is in French Bonaparte au Pont d'Arcole with text: Le 17 novembre 1796 le général Bonaparte, drapeau en main, s’élançait seul sous la mitraille autrichienne sur le pont dont la possession devait décider du sort de la bataille d’Arcole. Cette étude est plus belle que l’œuvre achevée qui se trouve à Versailles. Gros, dont la famille était suspecte de royalisme, obtint, grâce à son maître David, un passeport pour l’Italie qui le mettait à l’abri en lui permettant de travailler. C’est là qu’à Milan, par l’entremise de Joséphine, il commença, au début de 1797, le portrait de Bonaparte. Bousculé par le modèle, qui n’avait pas le temps de poser dans le moment où il concluait cette géniale compagne d’Italie qui lui ouvrirait la voie du pouvoir...
Furthermore, as I read the references & bibliography used in this en:wiki article, I am made to realise that not one French author is listed. Very interesting! Recently, I read something, which I must recuperate, by a well-known French historian who wrote of the differences in the same man who was known by two names *Bonaparte* & *Napoléon*, giving the impression that he was two different men.
Today being an exceptional day, I may not be able to return to this, but am looking forward to Tom's response and *pardon*! Cordialement, Frania W. ( talk) 14:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Having learned French history in France, it is difficult for me to switch to Anglo-based treatment of Napoléon Bonaparte! And I often get shocked reading other articles in en:wikipedia, particularly those dealing with French royalty.
You must be correct with his mother calling him *Napoleone* (unless she had a nickname for him!). When Bonaparte (mais oui!) became Premier Consul, he was referred to as *Bonaparte*, *Napoléon Bonaparte*, never *Napoléon* alone, and mostly as *Premier Consul*. Remember, listed by their last name only, the three consuls were Bonaparte, Sieyès & Ducos. I personally cannot revise French history because Anglos prefer to be on a first-name basis.
Because of my profession, I do not always live with my personal library & must wait until I return to France to have access to my books. However, knowing who several French authors are on the subject of our dear *Nappy*, I shall try to find documents in the Internet, possibly with translation in English.
Cordialement, Frania W. ( talk) 15:42, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Tom: I would tend to agree with this as when he became Premier Consul à vie Napoléon Bonaparte was only one step away from becoming Emperor. Will return to you when I have more arguments on my side, hoping we come to an agreement. In the meantime, you will have to excuse me because I must attend another coronation! (on TV).
Aurevoir! Frania W. ( talk) 16:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
For all it's worth, here is a site I just found. Unfortunately, it is only in French, the English version being under construction. But it will show you how the French refer to Napoléon Bonaparte at various times of his life. (I did not see anywhere the name of the author). I believe the article proves my point. For better proof, I will try to find historical documents.
http://napoleonbonaparte.ifrance.com/
plus link to Pierre Larousse Life of Napoléon Bonaparte
plus what I posted earlier above, a newspaper founded in 1797 by Bonaparte himself & published in Paris, Le Journal de Bonaparte et des hommes vertueux.
I realise that all these are in French & cannot be used as proof/verifiability by non-French speaking en:wiki readers, but then, why work on a foreign subject if the use of foreign sources is not allowed because they are not written in English?
Frania W. ( talk) 22:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Continuation of above:
Napoléon Homme de Paix, written (in French) by Ben Weider , CM, CQ, SBStJ, Ph. D
http://www.napoleonicsociety.com/french/pdf/Nap_paix.pdf
If you cannot read this 25 page text written in French, please look at caption by the illustrations & you will see the use of the surname *Bonaparte* all the way to his coronation. In general terms, Weider makes use of the name Napoléon, but within certain periods of Napoléon Bonaparte's life (pro Empire/Empire period), he uses surname or first name, as they were used at the time. *Bonaparte* is used by itself, then *Général Bonaparte* after he was named general, then *Premier Consul Bonaparte*. Only after his coronation does *Napoléon* gets used by itself.
Use of *Bonaparte*:
p. 5, 17 November 1796, Arcole, 17 novembre 1796 - Sous la mitraille autrichienne, Bonaparte saisit...;
p. 6, 14 January 1797, Rivoli, 14 janvier 1797 - Les victoires extraordinaires de Bonaparte en Italie...;
p. 7, C'est alors que Bonaparte fut nommé Général en chef de l'Armée d'Italie... 15 mai 1796 - Bonaparte entre à Milan;
p. 7, in 2e Coalition: William Pitt sachant Bonaparte en Egypte...;
p. 7, Mais Bonaparte n'était plus là.;
p. 8, Et ce fut le retour de Bonaparte, rentré d'Egypte.;
p. 8, caption by picture: Marengo 14 juin 1800 - Le Premier Consul Bonaparte s'arrache au travail...;
p. 9, En 1803, ... les attentats contre la vie de Bonaparte...;
p. 9, Bonaparte rassemble une armée à Boulogne...;
Use of *Napoléon*:
p. 9, Mais les Autrichiens avancent en Bavière et Napoléon, il est Empereur des Français depuis le 18 mai 1804...;
p. 9, Le 14 octobre 1806, ... Iéna, où commande l'Empereur en personne...;
p. 9, Napoléon entre triomphalement à Berlin. [...] Napoléon quitte Berlin et s'installe à Varsovie. [...] Napoléon écrase les Russes à Friedland.;
p. 10, caption by picture: Austerlitz, 2 décembre 1805 - Napoléon donne ses derniers ordres...
Idem *Napoléon* until his death.
Frania W. ( talk) 19:18, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Honestly, im trying to create a speech 'bout him, but this article is too long. can someone put a tag for me. thnks. Albertgenii12 ( talk) 01:07, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
It's currently only a one-sentence reference in the section on the Second Italian Campaign, where I don't really think it belongs. It seems it would fit better in the next section, which deals with the slave revolt and revolution in Haiti. I know the re-establishment occured as part of the implementation of the Napoleonic Code, and I'm wondering about the date - looks like 1801, but I'm unsure and my references don't say anything definite. Anybody know for certain? The Fiddly Leprechaun · Catch Me! 01:11, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Featured article criteria I put it up for peer review in October and then dealt with suggestions, pretty helpful process: Wikipedia:Peer_review/Napoleon_I_of_France/archive1. Grateful for suggestions/edits Tom B ( talk) 18:14, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Some of the areas thin in sources are the following; the 3rd paragraph in the French Consulate, 0 sources; the 1st and 2nd paragraphs under the War of the Third Coalition has only 1 source each; all the paragraphs under the war of the fourth coaltion have only 1 source; first paragraph under the war of the 5th coalition and remarriage has only 1 source, and so on. there are some more I found which are lacking enough sources, but as I said before, this is not a major problem. Perhaps a good copy-edit along with some additional footnotes and I think this should be okay to nominate.- Kieran4 ( talk) 21:15, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, I think that the images in the article are terrible. Huge stretches of the article are pure white space; the images you do have are certainly not the best available (an artists' imaginative representation of the Battle of the Pyramids from 1896 instead of a contemporary painting, I cannot for the life of me figure out why Louise of Mecklenburg-Strelitz is deemed significant enough to have her portrait on this page, nor can I figure out why you would choose to depict 18 Brumaire solely by a satirical print when there are several great paintings of the scene available); some of the most iconic paintings of Napoleon are missing, e.g.:
And there are no paintings showing Napoleon in battle (except for the one from the Bridge of the Arcole), when he was one of the greatest generals in history renown for leading men in battle.
Such poor use of images is, IMO, totally unacceptable in a Featured Article, particularly when there is a great set of images available on Wikimedia Commons to choose from.
I tried helping out by improving the image quality, but User:Tpbradbury is unilaterally reverting the pictures I've added to the page on the grounds that I haven't achieved "consensus" (the first time I've ever heard someone make the ridiculous claim that an editor should reach consensus before editing a page).
So, I have better things to do with my time than get in an edit war with this jerk, but I will say that if you won't let me improve the article's images, then somebody else should. Adam_sk ( talk) 05:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
i think this is an important topic not covered, how can we go about including it on this page?
"I hope the time is not far off when I shall be able to unite all the wise and educated men of all the countries and establish a uniform regime based on the principles of Quran which alone are true and which alone can lead men to happiness." - Napoleon Bonaparte as Quoted in Christian Cherfils, 'Bonaparte et Islam,' Pedone Ed., Paris, France, 1914, pp. 105, 125
there is so much more he said about islam- i think it is important to give an academic perception of napolean and islam backed by authoritative sources of course! D-truthseeker ( talk) 22:54, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
At the risk of changing the subject, I am starting a new section here so that anyone who wishes to comment on how to improve this article may do so, without any commentary on the behavior of editors or the history of past revisions. It would be a nice change of pace. -- R'n'B ( call me Russ) 11:51, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Suggested plan of action:
Tom B ( talk) 16:32, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
'manumise'. This is not the common word in English. I believe the author meant 'manumit' which means to free a person from slavery. It comes from the Latin 'manumittere'. I think this fits in more correctly with the British English used in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.134.71 ( talk) 18:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
"While Napoleon's mistresses had children by him, Joséphine did not produce an heir, an impossibility due either to the stresses of her imprisonment during the Terror or to an abortion she may have had in her twenties.[142]" It's from the section on Josephine/marriages.
Josephine did not produce an heir, an impossibility due...
How can an "impossibility" be due to anything? Impossible things don't have causes in the first place. Should this say: ...an heir, possibly due either... ?
I suppose it's addressing the fact that Josephine and Napoleon were both known to be separately fertile, that they clearly had sexual relations (seems clear enough) and yet no children were born? I wasn't aware that "stress" in and of itself could cause infertility (improperly performed abortions can - I assume the footnote establishes her having had an abortion - I hope), but there are many, many causes of joint infertility. If no one objects, though, I'll change the wording. Levalley ( talk) 19:26, 27 March 2009 (UTC)LeValley
I removed a line from the 'Egyptian expedition' section which read "Juan Cole sees it as propaganda, which obfuscated imperialism.[42]" for the following reasons: 1) It violates wp:fringe in that (to the best of my knowledge) it is not a widely held or prominent view. 2) It is poor style. A brief glance at this article shows no other section that includes 20th century opinions of Napoleon's actions, making Juan Cole's (and Ahmed Youssef's) opinion stand out as being out of place. Additionally, this article generally avoids judging the morality of Napoleon's actions, but this passage comes across as doing just that, proffering modern opinion of his actions. 3) The subject of this section (invasion of Egypt) has its own article which would be a better place for such a discussion.
Im going to go ahead and remove the section again, as well as the preceding line about Ahmed Youssef's opinion for the reasons listed above, if you re-add it or mean to re-add it, be sure to comment here. Bonewah ( talk) 20:01, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
small error under french empire. "Claims he seized the crown out of the hands of Pope Pius VII during the ceremony—to avoid his subjugation to the authority of the pontiff—are apocryphal; the coronation procedure had been agreed in advance." it should be Claims that. thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.138.9 ( talk) 22:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
The article refers to Napoléon as both Napoleon and Bonaparte, particularly in the first half—even using both terms in a single paragraph. There isn't any real rhyme or reason to the usages currently, and IMO we should stick to one name throughout for simplicity. (Probably Napoleon as that is how he is most commonly mentioned, though I wouldn't object either way.) The Fiddly Leprechaun · Catch Me! 23:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Revisit discussion. I quite like the variety in changing the name but several reviewers have brought up question of consistency. i think the 'first consul for life' rather than just first consul, point in his life is a relevant consideration. personally it seems a bit odd to see a kid being referred to as bonaparte when he was referred to as napoleon to distinguish him from his siblings and biographers do do this. i think the time he was most referred to as bonaparte was as a general and officer. Also the brits used to refer to him as bonaparte, partly for propaganda, 'illegitimate'-pointing reasons. one route might be to simply always refer to him as Napoleon, this would be a very simple solution and would be consistent with title of the article - leaving the note regarding name change at first consul for life and that he had been referred to as general bonaparte before, Tom B ( talk) 23:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
It should be noted, I think, that Napoleon refered to himself as Bonaparte in all letters, even after his coronation as emperor. Although he was officially refered to as Emperor Napoleon, i think that it is atleast necessary to refer to him as Bonaprate before the corination, since that was his name of choice. -- Sverez ( talk) 17:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
For some reasno or another, User:Tpbradbury has reverted my edits to put a new map in to replace the old one. The new one comes directly from Napoleon Bonaparte:A Life by Alan Schom. Tpbradbury has revert my edits and put the old map in which is inaccurate and lacks a source. I propose to add in the new one which shows Napoleon's Empire at it's greatest extent according to Schom, rather than the one which is up now, that comes from Camillus, a wikipedia user.
- Kieran4 ( talk) 03:24, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
I dont think the distinction between allied and rebellious is very meaningfull. Furthermore the Illyrian Province should be a part of the Empire proper. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I see, that despite the excellent work and citations above, no one has seen fit to remove the erroneous (urban legend) material from the Death section. That's too bad. Levalley ( talk) 19:59, 27 March 2009 (UTC)LeValley
What do you consider an urban legend? I am not an expert but if there is really any factoid about his death I would be glad to debunk it.
2009-05-23 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
I have now read the texts under the subtitles “Death” and “Cause of death”. The first error I found was Napoléon’s famous last words which were made up by Charles Tristan de Montholon. At the time Charles claimed those last words to have been uttered no-one else could hear any words or even recognisable language sounds! They did hear a sound but it was more like a music instrument than a human voice. Nowadays it is considered to have been due to gasses from an over-pressured stomach escaping through his throat. As such there was no intention behind it. I am not sure which his real last words where but they may well have been “Give me my chamber-pot”. This was most likely only a standard phrase since what he really needed was help to use it. I know he said so several times – and barely anything else – the day before he died. By the evening he was no longer able to speak. By four o’clock in the morning he had lost his consciousness. 14 hours later he was dead. Please note that I don’t claim his last words to have been uttered in English since Napoléon did not speak this language. They must have been in French since all the men which nursed him towards the end where French-spoken. It would be nice if someone could tell how they might have sounded in French. But watch out for Anglicisms! Please don’t translate the sentence word-by-word unless the result is in accordance with French usage.
The second error is the name of the place on Saint Helena where Napoléon was buried. In “Assassination at St. Helena” by Sten Forshufvud and Ben Weider it is called “Geranium Valley”. This name is completely understandable to me since I know that relatives of the commonly cultivated geranium are native to Saint Helena. But this book is from 1978 so the name may have changed since then. The article on Saint Helena calls it “Sane Valley”. I don’t know why it would be called so but I really like it because there is no “sane” reason to think that he was not buried there. However, this should not be interpreted as saying that people claiming something else are “insane”. People can have just any crazy ideas about things outside their direct experience without necessarily being mad. This article calls the place “Valley of the Willows”. I don’t know why it would be called so but this is the only passage where I have found it.
The third error is Francesco Antommarchi’s conclusion on the cause of death. In reality he thought that Napoléon had died from hepatitis. The claim that Francesco found any tumour at all is based on a mistranslation. I find it compleatly plausible that Carlo Buonaparte died from stomach cancer but that is not a valid argument since this disease is not hereditary. It was just assumed to be hereditary by people having pre-scientific ideas of heredity. I also accept that Napoléon’s siblings Lucien and Elisa died from stomach cancer but this has nothing to do with the genes they had in common. If you want to know the real cause of Napoléon’s death please read my inlays under the subtitle “Napoleon’s Death”. Although details may change to better fit the evidence the description of the main course of events are based on so much evidence that they are highly unlikely to be disproved.
The forth error is not so much an error of the author as an error made by the scientists refered to. The Italians tried to measure the arsenic content of four hair samples from Napoléon: one taken when he was only one year old, one taken in 1814 when he was on Elba, and two taken after his death. They claimed that they all had an arsenic content a hundred times what is considered normal today! Personally, I think their measuring equipment was too insensitive for measuring any arsenic content lower than this. If so it may explain why the hair samples from his “relatives” – in fact his first wife Joséphine and his son Franz – was measured to have the same unbelievably high arsenic content. If the measurements had been correct the arsenic content of the hair sample taken from the one-year-old Napoleone would have been normal or even lower. The adult Napoléon suffered a sub-lethal arsenic poisoning shortly before abdicating for the first time. (“Sub-lethal” means potentially lethal but not necessarily.) So if the hair sample taken on Elba grew then or during the following weeks it would had contained an abnormal amount of arsenic. Yet it would have been nowhere near as the content of the hair samples taken after his death. The highest content of arsenic in any hair sample from Napoléon measured by anyone else was about 40 times the normal. This was in hairs shaved from his head the day after he died.
The hair sample from Joséphine was also taken from her after she had died. She is strongly suspected to have died from sub-lethal arsenic poisoning. If so she would have died two to four days after swallowing the poison. In this time human hair only grows 0.72 – 1.44 millimetres. So unless the hair was shaved from her head it would not contain more arsenic than normal. This would also be the case if she did die from influenza which is the other possible cause of death. What I know for sure is that Franz died from a combination of arsenic and antimony poisoning after being more or less ill for about a year. So if the hair sample from him grew during the last year of his life it would contain significantly more arsenic than normal but not nearly as high as those taken from his father after his death. Please note that every time I write “normal” I mean what is considered “normal” today. If ever given the opportunity I would not hesitate to donate my own hair for testing with the same measuring equipment as the Italians used and at least one of the sets of measuring equipment used by others. I would do it in pursuit of the objective truth as well as for the chance to give these people something to think about. However, it would be best to not tell the scientists that the hair samples come from a present day healthy woman: otherwise the reporting about the finds might be biased.
I intended to put double square brackets around the name “Louis Marchand” and link it to Louis Joseph Marchand. But I could not find anywhere to click in order to change the content of the article. Have those links been removed from the article in order to prevent sabotage? Please note that although I may sound like an expert I have never given myself out as one. I am just a sceptic with a reluctant fascination for Napoléon. Also, I really enjoy debunking both writing and reading. I will answer questions posted here to the best of my ability.
2009-08-04 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.247.167.70 ( talk) 12:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Found an error in the following sentence:
"He ordered a young cavalry officer, Joachim Murat to seize large cannon and used them to repel the attackers on 5 October 1795—13 Vendémiaire An IV in the French Republican Calendar. 1,400 royalists died and the rest fled..."
Unfortunately I don't have editing priviledges. Could someone please fix it to read "seize large cannons" or something of the sort?
Thank you very much. 71.75.209.76 ( talk) 01:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Just yesterday, scattered pages of a novella written by Napoleon were finally put into a complete book form and the book Clisson et Eugenie will be published in autumn. Which part of the page should this be put in?
If you want a link to the source, here it is: http://chattahbox.com/world/2009/05/09/napoleon-bonaparte-a-romantic-novelist/
Here's another link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5293757/Napoleon-Bonaparte--the-romantic-novelist.html
Ujm90 ( talk) 13:07, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Please respect the memory of the dead. My ancestor was executed by Michel Ney's 6th Corps on April 20th 1809, in Monforte de Lemos. He had 6 small children, all younger than 10 years old, one to be born less than 3 weeks later. He was assassinated in the most cruel and grotesque manner, in front of his entire family. His wife pleaded he could be administered the Catholic Ritual of extreme unction, but the French prevented it and killed him like an animal. She gave birth prematurely his posthumous son less than 3 weeks later. We know all this because the priest who buried him wrote it down in the book of defuncts of the parish. I have enclosed a transcript here. That very same day, 1,100 innocent civilians of the same village were assassinated in a similar manner. Napoleon murdered millions of innocent civilians all over Europe, and France should be ashamed of this as much as Germany is of the Jewish Holocaust. I do not ask anything from France or the descendants of Napoleon, or those building monuments and celebrating the memory of that genocide. Just respect for the dead and historical truth. ( 167.206.29.162 ( talk) 16:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC))
This sad tale has also been posted on the talk page of the Napoleonic Wars. This war was the most brutal the world had ever seen and killed more people than any war previously, and would hold that infamous record for another 100 years (until the First World War). This is just one of perphaps millions of innocent deaths caused by French soldiers. It should be remembered though that Napoleon took advantage of the French revolution that killed hundreds of thousands of French people. Not just the guillotine in Paris killing nobles but French Republican soldiers formed 'Flying Columns' that went through a region slaughtering anyone suspected of being a royalist. In the 'Vendee' region for example it is estimated they slaughtered 250,000 people (even well known Republicans like Mayors) because the area contained an effective resistance against the revolution (Info from 'The First Total War' by David A. Bell) There is also no doubt that France as a whole was, at least at first, in favour of Napoleon's expansion plans. However, unlike Hitler, Napoleon was never elected by the people, though he did take advantage of a wave of popular support (this only happened because of a bloody revolution however). Therefore its a difficult one, it is not quite so easy to pin the blame on the French population at the time, but their is no doubt in my mind that they new it was happening. Willski72 ( talk) 11:49, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Very true sorry! I was just trying to tell everyone that the original comment seems to going around and i was merely trying to put it into context (the person is understandably upset). I'll try not to veer off again! Willski72 ( talk) 13:23, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello Benea and Willski72. I'm another descendant of a family tortured and killed by the French during their criminal invasion of Spain. I cannot express how painful is for me to read articles that glorify the figure of Napoleon. Please understand 167.206.29.162, the jews have received historical justice, and in many countries it is illegal to glorify nazism or the evil figure of Adolf Hitler. Why do we have to stand quiet when we read everywhere that Napoleon was second only to God?? ( Niaps ( talk) 15:24, 16 May 2009 (UTC))
I am English, we English had bad relations with the French for over 700 years, i understand your position and what you are trying to achieve and i perfectly agree that those killed should be mentioned. Creating articles is good (as i believe has done been done for Count Partida Defuncion Manuel Joseph Lopez de Prado) but mentioning them on talk pages meant only for improving the article itself is not how to do it. The comment about the Counts vile murder is on the Peninsular War talk page, the First French Empire talk page and the Napoleonic Wars talk page as well as this one. Start an article about the crimes committed by the French Army if you like, you are not alone after all, the French Army marched across all Europe not just Spain. But you must make sure that you have sources and that you must not be biased, no matter what other people say this is an encyclopedia! Willski72 ( talk) 17:54, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Willski72, I apologize for the inconvenience of having to repeat myself on several discussion pages. The reason is, all of these pages are showing a bised view of Napoleon, citing his many military glories, ignoring the 6.5 million victims of his tyrannic rule. I would have preferred the articles were more neutral, but that's not the case. Sorry again, and I hope you understand ( Niaps ( talk) 23:35, 16 May 2009 (UTC)).
Willski72, I understand and respect your point. Please understand my view, which I think it is equally valid. To write an article about Napoleon without mentioning his record of millions of civilians killed is as deceiptful as writing an article about Hitler hiding his part in the Holocaust. This is a well documented historical fact, and ignoring it is apology of genocide. I'm bringing neutrality to the article.
Frania W., thank you for your note. French historians have used the term genocide to describe Napoleon's war crimes ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1504014/Napoleons-genocide-on-a-par-with-Hitler.html). I do not choose those categories, just report what the experts say. 15% of the population of Spain being wiped out in 4 years certainly qualifies as genocide ( Niaps ( talk) 23:15, 16 May 2009 (UTC)).
Equendil, there is plenty of research on crimes committed by Napoleon's armies. Your argument that "atrocities are commited by all sides in a war" was repelled in the Nuremberg trials. Your affirmation that it is not possible to "murder civilians" at war is absurd (why then the Hague Tribunal?). The article, as it stands, is apologetic to Napoleon's figure, superficial and chauvinist. Napoleon's crimes must be mentioned in Napoleon's article. Please DO NOT delete a complete section written by other contributor. Make the changes and suggestions you consider appropriate. Thanks. ( 69.120.8.27 ( talk) 04:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)).
Equendil, you are French and this must be a pill hard to swallow. However, with all respects to your great Nation, 15% of Europe's population perished under Napoleon's rule. Please read the research mentioned at Napoleonic Wars casualties and revert your complete deletion of the section. ( Niaps ( talk) 05:08, 17 May 2009 (UTC))
Though i am supporting Equendil's overall position i would disagree with him on one point, at the time when the monarchies fought the wars were generally protracted but borders did not change much and so the people affected were lesser in number in Europe (atrocities did still happen though). The French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars opened this up so that the atrocities were felt throughout Europe. In Spain there were terribly brutal atrocities on both sides as the Spanish desperately defended their home from the invader who had been told to 'live of the land' (which basically meant stealing food off everyone) and supress rebellion. To get back to Niaps point though i do understand your position. For example on the Peninsular War article it should mention that atrocities were known to have occurred (although i doubt we'll ever have accurrate numbers). On this article it could say that Napoleon's men were known to have committed crimes throughout Europe (sometimes in desperation admittedly). And on the Napoleonic Wars article it could say that protracted rebellions led atrocities being committed in Spain, Southern Italy etc. The problem is i'm not sure if there is proof that Napoleon ordered these things or whether each seperate General took it upon themselves. However it must be remembered that these articles encompass a vast amount of history and so a sentence or two is enough, not hundreds of words. If you wish to do youre families justice all i can suggest you do is set up an unbiased article on atrocities during the Napoleonic wars (which must include those committed on captured French soldiers). It is not 'genocide' but it might of been 'atrocities' or 'brutal quelling of rebellion'. Willski72 ( talk) 11:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I fear you may be closer to the truth than i think Equendil, if these facts are already there then there is nothing more to do. I will repeat that they should create their own article and make sure their is no bias and each sides points are put across fairly, this is an Encyclopedia after all. If the created article is not unbiased they must accept that it may be got rid of. I fully understand their emotional position on this point but they must understand that an Encyclopedia shows no emotion. There is no evidence, for example, that Napoleon himself ordered these atrocities, even if they did occurr. Willski72 ( talk) 17:52, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Well said Frania W. there is reason to believe that Niaps, Qqtacpn and 167.206.29.162 along with a few others are either the same person or working together. They have created articles which had little if any supportive fact and they are under investigation by the administrators. It seems that these comments are merely the tip of the iceberg. Willski72 ( talk) 18:20, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I would like to remind, as a French citizen who has lived for fifteen years in Spain, that the mourning of Napoleon´s victims is the ground on which modern Spanish nationalism has been invented (They could not, at that time, agree on anything else). And we should be careful, when 167.206.29.162 is talking about "genocide" not to fall into the excesses of nationalist propaganda. Unfortunately, some extremists still capitalize on these remote wars in order to fuel an antiquated jingoism based on resentment and even hatred. Let us not forget, however, that this war was one of the first counter-insurrectional wars in modern history. That a minority of people, irresponsibly exposed civilians to the backlash of occupying troops by hiding among the population. These cowards too are celebrated as heroes. Many of them were actually priests who not only were participating to the insurrection, but who also sought to reestablish the inquisition! Therefore, how should I trust what a priest wrote in the book of the defunct? Instead of trying to "honour the dead", I think we should rather take care of our own lives. Clément, a descendant of the victims of so many wars. 24.90.250.211 ( talk) 06:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
I do not admire Napoléon but I have to point out that he did not commit genocide. First, I have to make it clear what I mean with “genocide” since this word has been misused many times. My definition includes the following criterion:
1. Type of atrocity. It must consist of the killing, deportation or forced
sterilization of humans. Other types of suppression is not counted.
2. Number of victims. The victims have to be at least a hundred thousand people.
3. Type of victims. The victims must be virtually defenceless, that is, always or almost always unarmed. War causalities are not counted since the targets are ether armed or supporting armed people.
4. Type of organization. The atrocities have to be committed by one government or government-like organization. Atrocities committed by several governments or similar organizations are counted as separate crimes.
5. Speed. The minimum number of victims has to be killed, deported or involuntary
sterilized within five years.
A true genocide has to meet all criteria listed. However, if the error margin allows for one of the criteria to be met it is counted as meting this criterion. Clear examples of genocide are the Nazi genocide – including the Holocaust – and the Soviet Gulag system. Other clear but not as infamous examples are the Turkish genocide on Armenians during WWI and the mass slaughter by the Khmer Rogue. On the other hand the Witch Trials where not a genocide since it failed on point 2, 4 and 5. Between 30,000 and 40,000 people where killed during the course of several centuries. Furthermore, they where killed not only by the Roman Catholic Church but mainly by several independent Protestant governments. Several claims of genocide of indigenous peoples fail on the low number of potential victims as the targeted group numbered less than a hundred thousand. Please also note that the Spanish Conquistadors did not reduce Native Americans to just a few hundred Although populations dropped drastically due to epidemics leading to the collapse of whole civilisations Native Americans still numbered in the millions. In the Andes and parts of Central America the natives still consists the majority of the population. If the Conquistadors had reduced the populations of natives to a few hundred they would not have had any peoples to rule. In reality they aimed to conquer and not exterminate. (In fact the word “conquistador” means “conqueror” in Spanish.) Anyone with any significant knowledge of world history should know that the Conquistadors succeeded in this effort.
The wish to commit genocide may be ancient but I don't think any such could have been committed until the later half of the 19th century. The necessary means most likely did not exist until at least the middle of the 19th century an possibly not until about 1900. The means includes administration, manpower and transport. The administration has to be of a relatively modern type meaning that the civil servants has to put the interests of the government before their own personal ones. The manpower consists of a sufficient number of people educated enough to carry out what I consider a crime against humanity. The transport means vehicles that can be used for mass transit such as trains, lorries and buses. During Napoléon's time the required administration may or may not have existed. However, I seriously doubt that the necessary manpower existed at the time. What I know for sure is that neither lorries nor buses where invented and that trains only existed on an experimental stage. The relatively primitive state of the medical profession also meant that forced mass sterilization was unattainable. Furthermore, Napoléon was a highly egoistic man. It may seem paradoxical but a high degree of altruism is required to commit genocide. As far as I know all genocides have been ordered in the severely mistaken belief that the society would benefit from it. There are simply no egoistic motif for ordering the death, deportation or forced sterilization of a hundred thousand people or more. However, my main argument is that Napoléon could not have committed genocide even if he had wanted.
This is not written in an effort to rehabilitate Napoléon's reputation. I consider him the first modern dictator. I think a dictator is frightening enough without having to accuse him of genocide. In this particular case the dictator in question had neither means nor motif to commit genocide. I don't think Charles Napoléon Bonaparte and his family should be proud of him. If anything I want them to dissociate themselves from Napoléon's suppression of free opinion and his incorporation of non-functional parts of democracies in his government. I am not an historian just an ordinary sceptic. But I am ready to answer all questioners except trolls.
2009-08-29 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
According to Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (Ivor Evans, Revised Edition, 1988), Napoleon was given the nickname 'Little Corporal' after the battle of Lodi in 1796, "from his low stature, youthful age and great courage." I'm not sure if this is worth of inclusion, so I'll leave it up to the regular editors to decide whether or not to include it. It's on page 675, under the entry "Little Corporal". -- Joth ( talk) 20:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
This section mentions "the ideals of the revolution", but what the heck are they? This seems like a central question for nearly the whole article, without which all the mere data about his battles have no context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Average64 ( talk • contribs) 20:50, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Very true very true, such is the way with most revolutions as history shows plainly. But Napoleon really hammered the nail in the coffin in that they couldnt even pretend anymore.-- Willski72 ( talk) 19:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Image for signature needs verifiable source e.g. book or document, thanks Tom B ( talk) 10:59, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
I refer to this section: Reign 18 May 1804 – 6 April 1814 20 March 1815 – 22 June 1815 Coronation 2 December 1804 Predecessor French Consulate Himself as First Counsel of the French First Republic.
Previous ruling Monarch was Louis XVI as King of the French (1791-1792)
"Counsel" should be corrected to "Consul" 99.157.173.9 ( talk) 16:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}}
Citation No. 99 McLynn, 1998 pp 545 the pp should be 504-505 (and not 545)
Wasn't Napoleon's original, Corsican, name Nabuileone? innotata ( Talk | Contribs) 00:34, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
To back up the above review about point 1., many of the internet inline citations used in this article are improperly formatted. Internet citations require at the very least information on the title, publisher and last access date of any webpages used. If the source is a news article then the date of publication and the author are also important. This information is useful because it allows a reader to a) rapidly identify a source's origin b) ascertain the reliability of that source and c) find other copies of the source should the website that hosts it become unavaliable for any reason. It may also in some circumstances aid in determining the existance or status of potential copyright infringments. Finally, it looks much tidier, making the article appear more professional. There are various ways in which this information can be represented in the citation, listed at length at Wikipedia:Citing sources. The simplest way of doing this is in the following format:
<ref>{{cite web|(insert URL)|title=|publisher=|work=|date=|author=|accessdate=}}</ref>
As an example:
which looks like:
If any information is unknown then simply omit it, but title, publisher and last access dates are always required. If you have any further questions please contact me and as mentioned above, more information on this issue can be found at Wikipedia:Citing sources. Regards
i didn't write above but am adding signature and date so it gets archived at some point, Tom B ( talk) 13:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
napolean bonaparte gave the thought that 'army runs with the support of stomach' with these king and government started providing army with surplus amount of food.Napolean was a great tactician with small no of soldiers he attacked large number of armies successfully.There has been discussion on napoleans sleep time.it has been believed that he just slept of 3 to 4hours of a day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahajanpranav14 ( talk • contribs) 15:39, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Since he is most commonly known as Napoleon Bonaparte, shouldn't that be the article name? WP:NCP suggests using the name that is most generally recognizable and unambiguous. Cheers, — sligocki ( talk) 07:25, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Sligocki, I don't think there is any formula for what name we should use. Personally, I'm of the opinion that using the Regnal names are the most appropriate, after all it would be a lie
to not awknowledge the fact that he was a monarch. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
67.133.229.226 (
talk) 03:21, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Re Flamarande: I agree with you that the most common name should be used, but it looks like it would be better for us to discuss this on the Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility) page. Cheers, — sligocki ( talk) 05:04, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
We don't measure people in Europe in METERS. but centimeters. So Napoleon was 170cm. Can somone fix that? 71.99.101.105 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC).
You all think thats bad? I hear people speak of naught point naught five centimetres. The correct English for that is 50 µm. If you do not understand µm, you really are'nt metric. Just to show of, I am able to write µm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.134.28.194 ( talk) 07:30, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Emperor of the French has 2 lines in the table. Looks silly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.123.17 ( talk) 08:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
This article should be renamed as the official title of Napoleon Bonaparte was "Napoleon I, Emperor of the French". He never was "Emperor of France". That's important because Napoleon wanted to be distinguished from the kings of France and it symbolically meant that Napoleon came from the "nation" and was not a king by divine right like the monarchs of the Ancien Régime. I propose to rename this article "Napoleon I" as there never was an other monarch called "Napoleon I". DITWIN GRIM ( talk) 14:41, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
(outdent) WP:NCROY says: "These following conventions apply to European monarchs since the fall of the Roman Empire (not, therefore, to the Byzantine Emperors), because they share much the same stock of names. This produces, for example, several kings and an emperor, all of whom are most commonly called Henry IV. We therefore call them Henry IV of England, Henry IV of France, and so on. The same holds for most kings; see also James I, Robert I, and so on." The name of the article is not meant to include the title of the monarch. It is name and number - and country when there are monarchs with the same number. As stated here: "Pre-emptively disambiguate the names of kings, queens regnant, and many emperors and empresses regnant in the format "{Monarch's first name and ordinal} of {Country}", omitting the royal or imperial titles. Examples: Edward I of England; Alfonso XII of Spain; Henry I of France. Holy Roman Emperors and German Emperors are an exception, see point 3. See point 5 for rulers below the rank of king. " Seems to me this discussion should be happening on the policy page. Policy explicitly says to omit their title. — Charles Edward ( Talk | Contribs) 20:30, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
outdent. hey guys, had been reading the discussion and wasn't going to say anything but Charles asked if i had a view. i don't mind too much about the article title though personally i think i'd prefer "Napoleon Bonaparte", - "Napoleon" might get confused with Napoleon III or dynamite! - as massively more recognisable for English speakers. but it seems there are some rather strict rules on article titles. hope all is well, Tom B ( talk) 18:52, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
We should probably seek out a kindly admin to change the name for us, since no one seems opposed to dropping the "of France". I think that addresses all the concerns about historical accuracy (by omitting the offending "of France") while still complying with policy on the naming of European royalty. The article is currently protected from earlier vandalism. I also note from the log [8] [9], that this article was once named Napoleon I, Emperor of the French, and the move to the current name was done because of the existing policy. I will see if I can find an admin who can do that. — Charles Edward ( Talk | Contribs) 00:27, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
I think we should add the name of the piece Napoleon wrote which caught Robespierre brothers' attention. I am looking for the name of that story and couldn't find it on wiki. It's suppose to be dinner at Salon or something. Can anyone add it? I am considering buying one copy maybe off ebay, so I been looking into the name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TehElCid ( talk • contribs) 03:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that Josephine was Paul Barras's mistress, as Napoleon's page said it was. --JosephineBonaparte —Preceding unsigned comment added by Josephinebonaparte ( talk • contribs) 01:21, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
It may interest people to know that there is a move discussion to bring about consistency of titles with Napoleon II and III taking place at Talk:Napoleon III of France. PatGallacher ( talk) 19:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
In the Early Career section, it refers to him being relocated to Constantinople, following with the info that it was renamed in 1930. But the 1930 "renaming" was more of a formality than anything else, as the Turks had been calling it Istanbul for much longer than that... Surely, Istanbul is the more proper name? Ringhloth ( talk) 17:54, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
"Wellington was never defeated in any battle, Napoleon was...". This isn't so. Wellington suffered several defeats, the most clear cut being the Siege of Burgos. These defeats were minor compared to Napoleon’s, but then Napoleon often faced far more difficult situations and more numerous foes (like at Leipzig and Waterloo). But then the Peninsular Campaign was never on the same scale as Napoleon's campaigns.
In terms of failures, the Iron Duke suffered setbacks at Redinha, El Boden and Villa Muriel. He also failed in the siege of Burgos and the 1st siege of San Sebastian. He was also strategically beaten at Quatre Bras by Ney, thus failing to aid Blucher at Ligny. He was almost defeated at Fuentes d'Onoro, probably being saved by the jealousy and lack of cooperation amongst Massena's generals. There is also debate as to whether or not he really won the Battle of Toulouse. Finally, I'm not sure if it was Wellington who manned the 2nd Siege of Badajoz, but this too ended in failure. These events are often overlooked in books on Napoleonic history. Guard Chasseur ( talk) 17:20, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
His status as a Monarch was confirmed in 1804, and then Europe was to know he was a Monarch in all and in name. When did he start to become a Monarch in all but name? I heard he was a "single-ruler" by the end of 1800. ( 85.164.223.175 ( talk) 23:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC))
{{editsemiprotected}} The following line: "Though Sieyès expected to dominate the new regime, he was outmanoeuvred by Bonaparte, who drafted the Constitution of the Year VIII and secured his own election as First Consul, and he took up residence at the Tuileries.." has an unnecessary extra period. If someone could edit this, that'd be great! 72.211.238.98 ( talk) 01:40, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Section "Early Career" says: "gained the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and command over a battalion of volunteers" and later on "promote him to captain". This is obscure, as lieutenant colonel is higher than captain. Also, in the French version N. is "second in command in a battalion". Maybe the above sentence should be corrected to: "gained the rank of lieutenant colonel in the National Guard and command in a battalion of volunteers"? 132.66.40.82 ( talk) 09:33, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I have no sources, except the French version in the Wikipedia. But perhaps you misunderstood my comment: the text is probably correct, but imprecise and hence misleading. To make it more clear one should distinguish between ranks in the French Army and ranks in the National Guard - and then everything is OK. My above proposed correction takes this into account. 132.66.40.82 ( talk) 09:01, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
in the Criticism section : "prophecised" needs changing to "prophesied" from vb. to prophesy (as different from n. "prophecy") thanks 110.32.232.94 ( talk) 08:49, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Can somebody give more on this issue? According to the human height article, Napoleon was only 4'11 or possibly 5'4 or 5'5 inches, I don't remember which one, but in either case well bellow the 5'7 inches given here, which in any case I rather doubt was average height in France c.1800 (in other places I've heard 5'5 or less). In other "revisionist" accounts I usually hear 5 feet 6 inches not 7, which is in fact the height given in the article sourced!! (which really makes me suspicious that something funny is going, especially since the article is in French and this may be considered a matter of national pride). I'm beginning to wonder if we don't really know much about either Napoleon's height OR average height in France at that time, since I've heard such varying accounts from all sides and even between different supposedly verified sources. In any case considering this is a very commonly referenced issue it deserves far greater detail than one article (in French and inaccurately quoted!!) referenced here and some admission that there may be uncertainty up until modern times. ( 93.65.186.151 ( talk) 18:31, 9 February 2010 (UTC))
Most people in the know, understand that he was not "short" at all, and was average height for the average European man of his generation. The height thing was blown out of proportion by mainly two reasons:
1. The victors write history.
2. It started to widely circulate a few generations later, when people were on the average taller than Napoleon's day, so they saw him as "short" in retrospect while purposely ignoring the context of time placement, since it would go against their aim of portraying him as "small." Jersey John ( talk) 08:49, 17 May 2010 (UTC) Oh and as for actual height I know not, but 4'11 is catagorically untrue, and I seem to recall hearing he was about 5'6. Jersey John ( talk) 08:49, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Wasn't his mother an orange seller? Wasn't he brought up dirt poor? That's hardly noble. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.243.47.58 ( talk) 05:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I modified the description of Corsica in the lede, because the article made it sound like Corsica was a part of France when Napoleon was born. However that only happened a year later. The distinction is relevant, since the turbulence in Corsica during Napoleon's youth probably had some effect ton him. Also just as a factual matter, Corsica simply was not part of France in 1769. Gacggt ( talk) 03:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Just to anoy you all with a legal term, here it is: Sui Generis. It's something like "by actual/normal interpretation/understanding of the law". So when was it a "fait accompli" that Corsica was to be understood as being a mere part of The Kingdom of France. I have the impression that the British Government said of Corsica that the guerillas can live and let die, and no assistance was to be given. It would be strange if Britain made, and therefore knew of the Fait Accompli before even the French.-- 85.164.220.173 ( talk) 22:18, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Napoleon Bonaparte's Albanian origin
On 1903, Adolf Thieres write: ”When Josef Bonaparti, the older brother of Napoleon Bonapartit became King of Naples on 1806, Arberesh/Albanians that went to welcome him, he told them: ”And Bonaparti family is from arberesh origin". Adolf Thieres, x-president of Franc said: Bonapart's older brother admit on 1806 , that his family was an Arberesh origin and had very close relationship to Ali Pasha Tepelena. On Bonaparti's family, profesor Robert d’Angely with origin from Corsica enlight in his book "Enigma of race of origins and languages of Pelasg,Arian,Hellen,Etruscan,Greek and Albanian". It is a book with seven volumes and with a 30 years work from this profesor. In pages 113-117 he wrote that Napoleon Bonaparti was an albanian origin, same as it was Great Alexander and Scanderbeg.It is interesting that the profesor says in his book that the old surname of Napoleon was ”Kalë-miri” ( in Albanian good-hourse) and not Kalimeros as greeks lie. Irvi Hyka--Irvi Hyka 00:16, 7 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Irvi Hyka talk
This will be very short and is not for the improvement of the article, but the title of the article at some point was renamed "Napoleonic" which really is vague and not the topic of the article in the first place. A hereby request renaming the article back to "Napoleon I of France" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.48.85.243 ( talk) 11:27, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
"Bonaparte was put under house arrest in August 1794 for his association with the brothers"[foot-note]
^ [foot-note] Some histories state he was imprisoned at the Fort Carré in Antibes but there does not appear to be evidence for this.[24]
^ [24] Dwyer 2008, p.155
This bothered me because there is a famous engraving by Edward_Matthew_Ward called "NAPOLEON IN THE PRISON OF NICE IN 1794" http://www.englishheritageimages.com/low.php?xp=media&xm=1716439 http://books.google.com/books?id=9HDQAAAAMAAJ&dq=napoleon%20prison%20in%201794%20nice&pg=PA771#v=onepage&q=napoleon%20prison%20in%201794%20nice&f=false
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Bokononist ( talk • contribs) 12:02, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
-- Frania W. ( talk) 01:58, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
That source is from 1900. Recent scholarship (2008) from Dwyer explicitly states that there does not appear to be any evidence he was imprisoned. Tom B ( talk) 10:39, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I have written a summary of the current state of knowledge on Napoléon’s death. This is at translation of the whole Swedish original except for a note on who translated a quote from French to Swedish. I have just divided it into three parts. The first one goes through the evidence and debunks counter-arguments. The second one describes chronologically what happened. The third deals with the question of responsibility. It is almost too long but the purpose of the original Swedish text had two purposes. One was to explain what Napoléon died from. The other was to debunk some misconceptions on Napoléon's time on Saint Helena. I have tried to came as close as possible to what I wanted to say without violating the rules for correct English. For safety's sake it has been proof-read by the Swedish sceptic Peter Olausson.
“Napoléon was poisoned to death. There are four
evidences for this. The first is his symptoms during the five years he was ill. The least interrupted description comes from
Louis Joseph Marchand. As the leading of the three
valets he saw Napoléon almost every day. In his diary Louis wrote down what he witnessed on
Saint Helena. It was amongst other things how the ex-emperor felt and which symptoms he had. His observations are confirmed by the testimony from Napoléon's good friend
Henri Gratien Bertrand. Henri held a formal office but had no real tasks. One could well say that he got paid for keeping Napoléon company. In addition there are case records from the four
physicians which examined Napoléon:
Barry O'Meara, John Stokoe,
Francesco Antommarchi and
Archibald Arnott. The person they describe is NOT a
cancer patient. Instead they describe a person who repeatedly have been poisoned by certain substances.
The second
evidence is the state of the inner organs at the
autopsy.
Francesco was the most qualified person who was present. He found no
tumour much less the
metastases which would have been required to kill him. The assertion that he would have done so is based on a mistranslation. On the contrary his description of the inner organs matches exactly the poisoning that will be explained later. However, Francesco did not know this: he thought that Napoléon had died from
hepatitis. The necessary knowledge simply did not exist yet.
The third
evidence is the fact that the dead Napoléon did not
decompose normally. Despite that he had not been intentionally
mummified the body had barely decomposed at all in 19 years! It has been pointed out that a carcass can be preserved under certain circumstances. But those circumstances mean constant cold alternatively a very dry
climate. No-one of the circumstances reined on the site where Napoléon was buried. The body was never in contact with the earth so chemical interaction with it is eliminated. The innermost coffin was airtight and of metal. If it had been heated up over a bonfire it would had stopped the
decomposition. (The
tin was invented so they knew that it worked but not how.) However, this could not have happened without people noticing. Furthermore, the dead man would have smelled like baked meat when the coffin was opened.
The forth
evidence is the chemical analyses which have been made on hair samples from Napoléon. They have only tested samples which authenticity has been certified by those persons which originally got them from him. (It is thus not enough with hearsay.) On of them even wrote that he had taken the hair himself from the dead Napoléon's body! All the tested hair samples have the same colour and texture. It makes it likely that they came from the same person. Hair samples taken at different occasions have different
arsenic contents. But it is always considerably higher than what is normal. It has been suggested that the arsenic is a contamination as a consequence of the hair being treated with arsenic preparations. It is impossible since the content is precisely as high in the in the middle of the hairs. Furthermore, the hairs taken after his death contained two other poisons too. The last 16
millimetres contained
antimony and the last millimetre
mercury as well. The measurements have been made by several
scientists at different laboratories. Several different methods have been used. Please note that hairs do not suck up things faster than they grow. It makes it on the other hand possible to calculate exactly when the poisoning occurred.
Four of the measurements deviate from the pattern. All the four deviating results have been done with the same measurement equipment. Despite that he hair samples had been taken at different occasions they show the same
arsenic content. It was in turn two and a half times as high as the highest of the other measurements. This ought to say something about how insensitive the measurement equipment is. People which claim that those measurements are reliable also assert that it was normal at the time. It is true that it is possible to get used to arsenic. But that it should hold for a whole population of 26 million is patently absurd. Some claim that people used to utilise arsenic to wash wine barrels and wine bottles. Why would they had utilised a well-known poison for that? Furthermore, Napoléon was moderate drinker. There were thus many people which drunk more wine than him. Others assert that Napoléon fell victim to his own arsenic abuse. Arsenic can really be abused. However, no contemporary testimonies suggest that he had such an addiction. The only thing he was addicted to was
snuff. On the other hand it was the only unhealthy habit that we know he had.
That Napoléon died from
cancer was first suggested by
Charles Tristan de Montholon. It has turned out that he often lied. On
Saint Helena he lied so much that he got the nickname ‘il bugiardo’ (‘the liar’ in
Italian). Several times he asserted things that are against modern
medical knowledge. Sometimes he even contradicted himself! It has been claimed that
metastases from Napoléon are preserved at
Royal College of Surgeons' museum. On the can with alcohol is a label saying that it is a gift from
Barry O'Meara. Unfortunately the tissues in the can are
lymphatic glands not metastases. There is not even any sensible reason to think that they come from Napoléon. Barry was not present at the
autopsy since he had left the island three years earlier. If he had ever operated Napoléon we would have known it. That Napoléon's pants shrunk steadily in size has been taken as evidence that he had died from cancer. On that
toxicologist Pascal Kintz – who did some of the chemical analyses – answered:
‘You don't decide that someone is suffering from cancer by measuring the size of his trousers.’
Napoléon did really lost much in weight before he died. But this was due to severe lack of appetite not due to
cancer. Please note that stomach cancer is not hereditary. It was just supposed to be hereditary by people which had pre-scientific ideas of heredity. Many other diseases have been suggested as causes of Napoléon's death. In most cases they are based on certain symptoms not all or even most! Some are even based on symptoms which
Charles has made up!
High
arsenic contents have also been found in hair that was taken from Napoléon before 1816. Some claim that this must mean that he was not poisoned to death. They have not understood that it was a matter of sub-lethal arsenic poisoning. ‘Sub-lethal’ means potentially lethal but not necessary so. The poisoned may thus survive and recover eventually. It was what happened to Napoléon in 1805, 1812, 1813, 1814 and 1815. When he arrived to
Saint Helena he had completely recovered from the last of them. People which recover from sub-lethal poisoning shows symptoms of chronic arsenic poisoning. Persons which missed the sub-lethal attacks have suggested alternative arsenic sources. Amongst other things one has suspected the wallpaper in Napoléon's bedroom and living-room. The wallpapers where coloured with
Scheele's green. The walls where so damp that they grew mouldy and emitted vapour forms of arsenic. The problem is that the suspicious wallpapers where put up three years AFTER Napoléon fell ill. Furthermore, statistics points against a source in the environment. All in all twelve people where poisoned: six adult men, four adult women, a teenage boy and a little girl. Environmental poisoning affects children at first hand. There where at least three more children in the same house but they did not fell ill. On the other hand two of the affected women did not even live on the same address! Not counting Napoléon three persons died. It was his best friend Franceschi Cipriani, one of the women, ant the little girl. However, in Napoléon's case arsenic was not the ultimate poison as we will see.”
“When Napoléon delivered himself up to the Britons a few friends and servants voluntary followed him. Furthermore an old enemy turned up unexpected. It was
Charles who offered to follow him anywhere. We don’t know why Napoléon accepted him. It may have been because he was so eager to follow him. It may also have been the prospect of having sex with his rather lose wife
Albine Hélène. Yes, he did have sex with her! In June 1816 she had a daughter who was
christened
Hélène de Montholon. We still don’t know who her dad was.
Napoléon's employees and friends treated him as a ruling monarch as long as he lived. Britons which meet him personally spooked to him as a foreign monarch unless he had said that they did not need to. Officially he was called general Bonaparte at the beginning even
lieutenant-general Bonaparte! For a start the party was kept on board a ship that was anchored outside England's coast. For security reasons Napoléon was not allowed to get ashore. During the time the British government discussed what they would do with him. General
Arthur Wellesley (more famous as the duke of Wellington) recommended
Saint Helen. It was easy to guard and had a pleasant
climate. Arthur had visited the island himself when he was on the way home from India. That was the way it of cause got too. The party was transferred to an other ship with destination Saint Helena. 69 days later they where there. It was in October 1815. The Britons tried to make it as comfortable for Napoléon as possible. As long as it did not prevent them from guarding him, of cause. They tried to protect him at least as much as preventing attempted escape. The island was easily made escape-proof. The coasts consist of high, steep rocks. The British government kept track of everyone who went ashore or left the harbour. It was only one more place where it was considered possible to get down to the shore. Every ship who approached the place would be stopped by the British navy.
Napoléon would got to live in a mansion named
Longwood House. But it had to be renovated and extended first. It took about two months. During the time Napoléon lived in a pavilion that was situated in the garden of a rich family's house. There he lived with five male followers. He liked to ride and work in Longwood House' garden. When his legs become too weak to allow riding he instead used to ride in his carriage. Indoors he could read, dictate, play billiards, chess and card games with
Henri. Napoléon preferred outdoor activities. Had he decided to keep indoors he easily become bored.
The first quarter of 1816 Napoléon felt ill for a couple of days in the middle of each month. The followers noticed a general degeneration of his health even if he did not say anything. About the turn of the month April/May he fell ill again. He had been stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. Before he had recovered completely he was stricken one more time. So it continued year after year. No contemporary
physician could tell what Napoléon suffered from. Therefore the repeated sub-lethal poisonings could continue for years. It took until the 1950ies until someone found out what Napoléon had suffered from. It become possible through the publication of
Louis' diaries.
A little more than six weeks before Napoléon died the
arsenic was partly replaced with
antimony. Two days later
Charles offered to nurse him during the nights. It was normally Jean Abram Noverraz' job. But he had suddenly fallen ill. The antimony resulted in violent vomiting. Eventually his stomach was so overworked that he stopped to vomit.
Francesco and
Archibald begun to worry about if he would survive. Charles wrongfully asserted that a certain mercury salt (
calomel) once had saved Napoléon's life. Archibald agreed to give it a chance but not Francesco. Two other
physicians where called in so that they could discuss the issue. All except Francesco let themselves to be subdued. Napoléon was given an enormous dose of the mercury salt. Earlier the same day he had been fooled to swallow a drink that was seasoned with bitter
almonds.
Potassium cyanide from the bitter almonds reacted with the acidity of the stomach and with the mercury salt. The result was other mercury salts,
mercuric cyanide and free
mercury. As a consequence of the poisoning Napoléon now laid helpless in his bed. Within 36 hours after he had swallowed the medicine he had lost his consciousness. After a little more than 48 hours he was dead. It was in the evening the 5th of May 1821. The following day an
autopsy was performed on the dead man. Francesco had company of seven British physicians but it was he who held the scalpel. After the autopsy hair and beard-stubble was shaved off. A cast was made of the front half of the head together with parts of the neck and some of the chest. The dead man was washed and dressed. Eventually the body was laid in a coffin out of tin. The tin coffin was soldered close and placed in one of wood. It was placed in its turn in one of lead which was also soldered close. The lead coffin was placed in one more of wood. Napoléon was buried there on
Saint Helena in a place that is called Sane Valley. There the Britons had built a gave vault out of stone. When Napoléon was dead and buried the followers could return to Europe.
In 1840 king
Louis Philippe decided that Napoléon's coffin should be brought to France. A French ship was sent to
Saint Helena. Several people which had known Napoléon where present when the grave was opened. When the innermost coffin was cut open they got the surprise of their lives. The dead man was almost intact! Everyone who remembered how Napoléon had looked recognised the dead man. The body's high
arsenic content – combined with the two airtight coffins – had stopped almost all decomposition. The three innermost coffins where kept. They where placed in an additional one out of lead then in two more out of wood. (All wooden coffins where made of different woods.) Finally it was laid in a sarcophagus out of red
porphyry in
the Invalides in
Paris. There he lies buried to this day.”
“There where two persons which could had poisoned Napoléon. One was
Charles who was in charge of the wine cellar. The other was the
valet Étienne Saint-Dennis. He was nicknamed Ali. No-one of the two had any good alibi. There are no real
evidence against any of them but the indications against Charles are considerably more. Several times he said to people that a new attack was to be expected. Then he was usually right. Furthermore, he knew several months in advance which symptoms Napoléon would get. He wrote it in letters to his wife which he sent after she had left the island. In present tense he described things that had yet not occurred! 25 years later he wrote a book about his experiences on
Saint Helena. His description differs radically from the other persons'. Certain parts are so artificial that they only add to the suspicions against him. Nothing suggests that Ali knew in advance what would happen to Napoléon. He did not come with any obviously exorbitant assertions either. Something Charles did several times in his book. Ali is also less likely for an other reason. Imagine that someone has poisoned an other man to death 19 years ago. He gets an invitation to be present when the victim's grave is opened. The victim will be shown to him an several others. Would he then accept? Ali was present on Saint Helena when Napoléon's grave was opened. Charles was the only invited one who was not present despite he would have been able.
Many others have been suspected for poisoning Napoléon. Here is a list of them:
§
Hudson Lowe was
governor of
Saint Helena. He had nothing to do with what Napoléon ate and drunk. He has been unfairly blamed for something that he could neither had done nor prevented.
§
Henri and his family where the only followers which did not live in
Longwood House. (They lived in a house nearby.) It was only the last six weeks that he at all handled Napoléon's food and drink. He then helped to nurse Napoléon who had become so weak that he needed help 24 hours a day. It was always in daytime except for the last but one night. Until then Napoléon was worst in the nights when
Charles nursed him.
§
Louis seem to have been the person who most nursed Napoléon. The problem with him is that he was one of the six adult men which had been stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. An assassin who poisons himself is too clumsy to avoid detection!
§ Abram has an excellent alibi. To the day six weeks before Napoléon died he was stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. He barely recovered in time to bid farewell to his dying ruler. By then Napoléon already laid unconscious.
§ Jean Baptiste Pierron was
Longwood House' cook. He did not know which portion would be served to who. Consequentially he could not poison Napoléon without poisoning everyone who ate with him. People which ate with Napoléon rarely fell ill. On the contrary everyone had their own whine bottle which makes the one who was in charge of the wine cellar more suspicious. Sure, Jean served the desserts. But several times Napoléon become worse without eating any dessert.
§ The four
physicians mentioned in the first paragraph have been accused for causing Napoléon's death. The problem is that Napoléon was ill even when no-one of them where there. Furthermore, he was sceptic to physicians. It was easy to count the times he swallowed any medicine at all.
Napoléon may have called
Charles ‘the most faithful of the faithful’. However, he just become fooled by an unusually ingratiating hypocrite. It was how Charles got Napoléon's trust: though his constant ingratiation. Furthermore, Napoléon lived in the illusion that loyalty could be bought. It is hard to think that Charles could had nursed Napoléon – helped him with things he in fact needed help with – without feeling some kind of sympathy. He might had thought something like ‘I have to kill him but I can't let him suffer more than necessary’.
It is entirely possible that
Charles acted on his own. In that case he was solely responsible for Napoléon's death. There is no evidence for any conspiracy. If Napoléon fell victim to any such there where two possible assignors. One was Charles' close friend and France'
crown prince
Charles Philippe de Capet. The crown prince was a well-known intriguer who advocated political assassinations. The other was Charles' adoptive dad
Charles Louis de Sémonville. We know that Charles visited him shortly before he joined Napoléon. It is also possible that both where involved. The adoptive dad would then had conveyed a commission which he had got from the crown prince. Was there an assignor Charles would not have had any choice. Had he refused he would have been killed so that he could not reveal anything. Someone else had followed Napoléon with secret commission to poison him.”
I am not an expert, just an ordinary sceptic fascinated by Napoléon. But I DO have written sources to all my claims. Questioners will be answered to the best of my physical ability.
i didn't write above but am adding signature and date so it gets archived at some point, Tom B ( talk) 13:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Thank you Tom B. I wrote this text a few months ago. The original Swedish text have changed somewhat since I wrote it. I now intend to make a translation of the latest version to English and e-mail it to a Peter Olausson asking him to proof-read it. As soon as I get time and an account on a web hosting service I will upload a PDF version to the web which I can link to from then on.
2010-05-15 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
I have now e-mailed Peter Olausson who said that he did not intend to proof-read my text. I have corrected one more factual error. As soon as I get time and energy I will do my best to check for linguistic errors. This summer I will register an account on a web hosting service and upload a PDF-version as previously stated.
2010-05-21 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
It is strange how you can read about
arsenic, [Sb], [Hg], and the entertaining types of poisining. The only reason we know of these things, was the sceptisism a Swedish dentist had towards French Authorities. The French had spent 150 years advocating the Emporor was a cancer case. Why the effort to conceal the actual cause death of the Emporor.--
85.164.220.173 (
talk) 22:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
You have not realized that there is a large amount of evidence supporting the poisoning theory. The text I originally translated to English contains some smaller factual errors but the broad outlines are supported by so much evidence that they are unlikely to change fundamentally. There are two main arguments why Napoléon did not die from cancer. First, the professional pathologist who held the scalpel at the autopsy ( Francesco Antommarchi) did not find a single tumour. Second, his symptoms as described by several contemporary eyewitnesses does not match cancer. Sten Forshufvud was not only a dentist but also a toxicologist. I was told this by Ben Weider who knew him personally. Ben was one of the world’s leading experts on Napoléon. More than 50 years ago he already doubted on the traditional explanation for Napoléon’s death. Knowing his habits and having basic knowledge of healthcare Ben suspected that Napoléon should have remained healthy well into middle age. Sten’s hypothesis that Napoléon was poisoned to death did not arise from any vague distrust of French authorities. Instead his suspicions started when he read the diaries of Louis Joseph Marchand which was published in 1955. Louis was not only Napoléon’s personal servant but also his good friend. During the last seven years of Napoléon’s life Louis met him almost every day. Louis kept diaries intended to be read by his family during his whole time on Saint Helena. All events seem equally important when they have just happened. Combined with Louis’ high degree of honesty these made his diaries the most comprehensive description of Napoléon’s symptoms during his five years of continuous illness. Louis’ description is confirmed by the sketchier eyewitness account of Henri Gratien Bertrand as well as those of the four physicians which examined Napoléon. Gaspard Gourgaud has also contributed with his written testimony. Please note that the descriptions by all these people roughly mach. The differences are no more than can be explained by human error and errors of communication. Francesco Antommarchi’s description of the dead Napoléon’s internal organs is also important. All these contemporary eyewitness accounts have to be interpreted in the light of modern medical knowledge. Although we will never know everything medical science during the years 1955 – 1985 was far more advanced than during the first three decades of the 19th century. A retrodiagnosis made during the last 55 years would be much more accurate than a diagnosis made by Napoléon’s contemporaries. Sten did not have formal qualifications as a historian but he was supported by Ben as well as David Geoffrey Chandler. As experts on Napoléon these where also aware that when his grave on Saint Helena was opened in 1840 the dead man was intact enough to be recognisable. The most sensible explanation for this is the body’s high arsenic content combined with the two airtight metal coffins.
During the last 50 year there have also been forensic evidence in the form of chemical analyses of hair samples from Napoléon. There have been at least 16 such analyses out of which 12 support the poisoning theory. The remaining four where all made by the same team of scientists which does not seem to be familiar with testing of hair samples several generations old. If so the incredibly high arsenic measurements they reported may be due to an outside contamination which they did not know that they had to remove. Their claim of such a high arsenic content being normal at the time is patently absurd considering just how toxic this element is. Furthermore, none else have measured any content mote than 40 percent as high. My point is that the statement of Napoléon being poisoned to death is not a crackpot idea but a scientific theory. This is what I have tried to explain all the time.
2010-08-27 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
The latest version of my summary can now be found here. A few factual errors have been corrected and two more paragraphs added. The first of these describe Napoléon's financial situation on Saint Helena. He had to hold on to his money but could still live a comfortable life. The second one outlines the progression of his illness and when the different physicians were with him. The language of the translation has also been improved. There are still some aberrations from English linguistic usage. But at least the expressions should be understandable. I wanted to do this five months ago. However, there was a lot which I had to write before this. These texts took much longer to write than I imagined. Creating a website and uploading 23.9 MB of files was also much more laborious and troublesome than I imagined. (The PDF I just linked to is 94 kB.) But now I eventually got it done. From now on I can refer tom this text – or a later version of it – every time the cause of Napoléon’s death is wrongfully stated. I am absolutely not an expert but I understand enough of how real experts think to explain to others why it is in a certain way and not the other way around. Something I find very entertaining.
2010-12-29 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
Napoléon's last words are claimed to have been "France, armée, tête d'armée, Joséphine" ("France, army, head of the army, Joséphine."). Those famous last words where made up by Charles Tristan de Montholon. At the time he claimed them to have been uttered no-one else could hear any words or even recognisable languages sounds! They did hear a sound but it was more like a music instrument than a human voice. Today it is considered to have been due to gases from an over-pressurised stomach escaping trough his throat. As such there where no intention behind it. I am not sure which his real last words where but they may well have been “give me my chamber-pot”. I know that he said so several times – and barley anything else – the day before he died. By the evening he was no longer able to speak. By four a clock in the morning he had lost his consciousness. 14 hours later he was dead.
Does anyone have an idea about how the probable last words may have sounded in French? If so, feel free to tell me. But beware of Anglicisms! Please don't translate word-by-word unless it fits French linguistic usage. However, I do not claim that Napoléon spoke perfect French. This was certainly not the case due to his combination of dyslexia and having a minority language as his mother tongue. If there where any foreign influence on his last words it would have been from the Italian dialect which later defined itself as Corsican. Yes, this is the consequence of my definition of “language”.
2010-06-14 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
At the age of ten it is usually too late to change mother tongue. It is also a well known fact to experts in the field that Napoléon did not speak with any intonation which would have suggested having French as his mother tongue. For example, Ben Weider once wrote that he had “the accent of a Corsican”. Dyslexia is an inborn flaw in the language ability. It can be retroactively diagnosed by finding out what kind of spelling errors the person did. However, this must be quite hard in Napoléon’s case since his handwriting was very hard to read. I think this was due to a combination of defiance in fine motor ability (common among dyslectics) and impatience. Although dyslexia makes it harder to learn a foreign language a dyslectic may well speak a foreign language fluently. The Swedish crown princess Victoria is live evidence of this. She is diagnosed as dyslectic yet speaks English fluently. Please note that influences between languages don’t have to consist of vocabulary. The French Napoléon spoke may well have had its linguistic usage more or less influenced by the Corsican dialect of Italian. His pronunciation may also have resembled the sound system of his mother tongue more than the one used by the majority of native speakers of French. But as long as people understood him this would not have been any problem.
Napoléon’s last two days in life is described in chapter 44 of Mitchell Press Limited’s 1978 edition of “Assassination at St Helena” by Sten Forshufvud and Ben Weider. This is where I got my assert that Napoléon’s famous last where made up by Charles Tristan de Montholon. The same chapter of this book also tells that from the evening of the 3rd of May and until he become mute he said barely anything else than “give me my chamber-pot”. So these may well have been his real last words. I was curious about how they may have sounded in the original French. I just wanted to dissuade people which are too bad at French to try to translate it back. If nobody who read this has read the original eyewitness accounts, that is.
2010-08-27 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.151.47 ( talk) 19:16, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Referring to the sentence: "Napoleon Bonaparte (French: Napoléon Bonaparte French pronunciation: [napoleɔ̃ bɔnɑpaʁt], Italian: Napoleone di Buonaparte; 15 August 1769 – 5 May 1821), was a military and political leader of France and Emperor of the French as Napoleon I, whose actions shaped European politics in the early 19th century."
Shouldn't it say whose actions shaped European politics in the early 18th century? Since he ruled during the early 18th century? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faraz1993 ( talk • contribs) 01:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Should the sentence say "... and Emporer of the French known as Napoleon I ..."? Lambtron ( talk) 19:53, 20 September 2010 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 |
Could there be the IPA instructions for the (orginal French) pronunciation of the name Napoléon Bonaparte? Not all of us are able to pronounce that name "correctly". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.154.75.230 ( talk) 20:55, 25 December 2008 (UTC)
26 August, 2008 Stephen Smith, Naples, Florida, United States.
I am not able to edit the Napoleon Page because I do not have such privledges, but I do know that Napoleon was also titled "Emperor of Elba" when he was exiled to the island in 1814.
I've actually done some more research, I've spoken with J.David.Markham about the matter, he is a noted Napoleonic Historian. He informed me of the contrary, though I am unsure about his convictions on the matter. I intend to settle this matter once and for all. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
204.29.160.175 (
talk) 04:08, 28 September 2008 (UTC)
He was entitled "Sovereign of Elba". He retained the title of Emperor for the rest of his life, as this is the established rule when a crowned head of state abdicates, or passes the reins to a successor. A similar case would therefore be the late Queen Elizabeth (HM the Queen Mother) of the United Kingdom, Australia, Canada etc. etc. Executeur ( talk) 20:02, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
Who governed France during the times when Napoleon was away at battle? Funnyhat 17:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
You are reasoning as if France could have been governed by a single person. That might have been possible during ancien régime with its many remnants of a highly decentralised feudal system. Napoléon had an very low need for sleep and was probably not lazy. Yet I doubt he could have made all governmental decisions. Also, I know that the Napoleonic Code was written by a group of intellectuals of which he was the leader. I think the Bonaparte regime consisted of a small group of people of which Napoléon was the most important. All decision he could not made the others did for him. When he was away on campaigns he probably did what he could to control the French government and what he could not do the other members had his permission to do. However, this is only an educated guess. Anyone who really know?
2007-07-25 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
I have learned that Napoléon was extremely diligent. Yet I don’t think all necessary governmental decisions could have been made by a single person. Anyone who know what other persons the Bonaparte regime consisted of?
2008-01-19 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
2008-06-17 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
2008-09-28 I know at different times that his brother Jospeh also did some of the work while he was away, which I know for a fact was the case during the 100 days campaign at Waterloo.
2008-10-03 "If Mike Shanahan was Napoleon, then this [Arrowhead] is his Waterloo." - Dan Dierdorf September 28, 2008. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Suckafish69 ( talk • contribs) 00:16, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
2008-11-2 Steve Smith, Jacksonville Florida " Some of the information that is above my post is wrong. Napoleon was very diligent, and often worked 18 hour days. I actually know that it was his habit to go to bed at like 8 O clock at night and then wake up at like 12 at night and spend the rest of the night working. He also might take cat naps during the course of the day. Napoleon founded the first modern "Think tank" when he created the French State Council. The State council consisted of 50 people, but I am unsure as to how many of them contributed to the actually governing of the nation on a day to day basis. Napoleon was very involved in governing the nation, even while on Campaign. He increased the efficiency of the communication system of France, and specifically the army dramatically. Through a series of fire tower signals I know that a message could make its way from Venice to France in as little as 9 minutes. Later on, while he was in Russia for example, he had a primitive Telegraph that involved tubes, that helped in in governing the grand army. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SteveSmith35024 ( talk • contribs) 21:26, 2 November 2008 (UTC)
The GA review has been archived. Dr. Cash ( talk) 20:37, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Quote from The Book of Lists (1977, "10 Ghastly Ghosts", p. 272-275):
The author of this section of the book was Philip Cunliffe-Jones. The web produces no corroboration of this story, or maybe I've been looking in the wrong places. Is there any truth to it whatsoever? -- JackofOz ( talk) 07:41, 4 June 2008 (UTC)
i think he looked skary!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As a sceptic I feel a need to protest against such assertations. For the event of Napoléon's death whe have at least five eywittness accounts. The five eywittnesses where Francesco Antommarchi, Archibald Arnott, Henri Gratien Bertrand, Louis Joseph Marchand and Charles Tristan de Montholon. Charles' testimony differs radically from those of the others and he is now considered a frequent liar. If an unknown man with a reddish beard had turned up at Napoléon's deathbed at least one of the others would had noticed it. Please note that beards had been unfashionable for about a century and would remain so for about a decade. To me the story seems to be a fiction by someone who don't know much about Napoléon's death.
2008-11-04 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
I have read that twentieth century analysis of Napoleon's hair demonstrated conclusively that Signore Buonaparte died of arsenic poisoning, presumably administered by his British jailers on the South Atlantic island of Saint Helena where he was being held since his second and last surrender. Dick Kimball ( talk) 10:26, 19 July 2008 (UTC)
I have written a summary of the current state of knowledge on Napoléon’s death. It is written in Swedish but I will post an English translation as soon as I have made one. Right now I only want to assure you that the sentries could not had poisoned him since they did not handle his food and drink. At the very least they did not handle food and drink specifically aimed for him. This was done by his French-spoken followers. As such the murderer must have been one of them.
2008-07-28 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
This is the whole text, except for a note on who translated a quote from French to Swedish. I have just divided it into three parts. The first one goes through the evidence and debunks counter-arguments. The second one describes chronologically what happened. The third deals with the question of responsibility. It is almost too long but the purpose of the original Swedish text had two purposes. One was to explain what Napoléon died from. The other was to debunk some misconceptions on Napoléon's time on Saint Helena. I have tried to came as close as possible to what I wanted to say without violating the rules for correct English. For safety's sake it has been proof-read by the Swedish sceptic Peter Olausson.
“Napoléon was poisoned to death. There are four
evidences for this. The first is his symptoms during the five years he was ill. The least interrupted description comes from
Louis Joseph Marchand. As the leading of the three
valets he saw Napoléon almost every day. In his diary Louis wrote down what he witnessed on
Saint Helena. It was amongst other things how the ex-emperor felt and which symptoms he had. His observations are confirmed by the testimony from Napoléon's good friend
Henri Gratien Bertrand. Henri held a formal office but had no real tasks. One could well say that he got paid for keeping Napoléon company. In addition there are case records from the four
physicians which examined Napoléon:
Barry O'Meara, John Stokoe,
Francesco Antommarchi and
Archibald Arnott. The person they describe is NOT a
cancer patient. Instead they describe a person who repeatedly have been poisoned by certain substances.
The second
evidence is the state of the inner organs at the
autopsy.
Francesco was the most qualified person who was present. He found no
tumour much less the
metastases which would have been required to kill him. The assertion that he would have done so is based on a mistranslation. On the contrary his description of the inner organs matches exactly the poisoning that will be explained later. However, Francesco did not know this: he thought that Napoléon had died from
hepatitis. The necessary knowledge simply did not exist yet.
The third
evidence is the fact that the dead Napoléon did not
decompose normally. Despite that he had not been intentionally
mummified the body had barely decomposed at all in 19 years! It has been pointed out that a carcass can be preserved under certain circumstances. But those circumstances mean constant cold alternatively a very dry
climate. No-one of the circumstances reined on the site where Napoléon was buried. The body was never in contact with the earth so chemical interaction with it is eliminated. The innermost coffin was airtight and of metal. If it had been heated up over a bonfire it would had stopped the
decomposition. (The
tin was invented so they knew that it worked but not how.) However, this could not have happened without people noticing. Furthermore, the dead man would have smelled like baked meat when the coffin was opened.
The forth
evidence is the chemical analyses which have been made on hair samples from Napoléon. They have only tested samples which authenticity has been certified by those persons which originally got them from him. (It is thus not enough with hearsay.) On of them even wrote that he had taken the hair himself from the dead Napoléon's body! All the tested hair samples have the same colour and texture. It makes it likely that they came from the same person. Hair samples taken at different occasions have different
arsenic contents. But it is always considerably higher than what is normal. It has been suggested that the arsenic is a contamination as a consequence of the hair being treated with arsenic preparations. It is impossible since the content is precisely as high in the in the middle of the hairs. Furthermore, the hairs taken after his death contained two other poisons too. The last 16
millimetres contained
antimony and the last millimetre
mercury as well. The measurements have been made by several
scientists at different laboratories. Several different methods have been used. Please note that hairs do not suck up things faster than they grow. It makes it on the other hand possible to calculate exactly when the poisoning occurred.
Four of the measurements deviate from the pattern. All the four deviating results have been done with the same measurement equipment. Despite that he hair samples had been taken at different occasions they show the same
arsenic content. It was in turn two and a half times as high as the highest of the other measurements. This ought to say something about how insensitive the measurement equipment is. People which claim that those measurements are reliable also assert that it was normal at the time. It is true that it is possible to get used to arsenic. But that it should hold for a whole population of 26 million is patently absurd. Some claim that people used to utilise arsenic to wash wine barrels and wine bottles. Why would they had utilised a well-known poison for that? Furthermore, Napoléon was moderate drinker. There were thus many people which drunk more wine than him. Others assert that Napoléon fell victim to his own arsenic abuse. Arsenic can really be abused. However, no contemporary testimonies suggest that he had such an addiction. The only thing he was addicted to was
snuff. On the other hand it was the only unhealthy habit that we know he had.
That Napoléon died from
cancer was first suggested by
Charles Tristan de Montholon. It has turned out that he often lied. On
Saint Helena he lied so much that he got the nickname ‘il bugiardo’ (‘the liar’ in
Italian). Several times he asserted things that are against modern
medical knowledge. Sometimes he even contradicted himself! It has been claimed that
metastases from Napoléon are preserved at
Royal College of Surgeons' museum. On the can with alcohol is a label saying that it is a gift from
Barry O'Meara. Unfortunately the tissues in the can are
lymphatic glands not metastases. There is not even any sensible reason to think that they come from Napoléon. Barry was not present at the
autopsy since he had left the island three years earlier. If he had ever operated Napoléon we would have known it. That Napoléon's pants shrunk steadily in size has been taken as evidence that he had died from cancer. On that
toxicologist Pascal Kintz – who did some of the chemical analyses – answered:
‘You don't decide that someone is suffering from cancer by measuring the size of his trousers.’
Napoléon did really lost much in weight before he died. But this was due to severe lack of appetite not due to
cancer. Please note that stomach cancer is not hereditary. It was just supposed to be hereditary by people which had pre-scientific ideas of heredity. Many other diseases have been suggested as causes of Napoléon's death. In most cases they are based on certain symptoms not all or even most! Some are even based on symptoms which
Charles has made up!
High
arsenic contents have also been found in hair that was taken from Napoléon before 1816. Some claim that this must mean that he was not poisoned to death. They have not understood that it was a matter of sub-lethal arsenic poisoning. ‘Sub-lethal’ means potentially lethal but not necessary so. The poisoned may thus survive and recover eventually. It was what happened to Napoléon in 1805, 1812, 1813, 1814 and 1815. When he arrived to
Saint Helena he had completely recovered from the last of them. People which recover from sub-lethal poisoning shows symptoms of chronic arsenic poisoning. Persons which missed the sub-lethal attacks have suggested alternative arsenic sources. Amongst other things one has suspected the wallpaper in Napoléon's bedroom and living-room. The wallpapers where coloured with
Scheele's green. The walls where so damp that they grew mouldy and emitted vapour forms of arsenic. The problem is that the suspicious wallpapers where put up three years AFTER Napoléon fell ill. Furthermore, statistics points against a source in the environment. All in all twelve people where poisoned: six adult men, four adult women, a teenage boy and a little girl. Environmental poisoning affects children at first hand. There where at least three more children in the same house but they did not fell ill. On the other hand two of the affected women did not even live on the same address! Not counting Napoléon three persons died. It was his best friend Franceschi Cipriani, one of the women, ant the little girl. However, in Napoléon's case arsenic was not the ultimate poison as we will see.”
“When Napoléon delivered himself up to the Britons a few friends and servants voluntary followed him. Furthermore an old enemy turned up unexpected. It was
Charles who offered to follow him anywhere. We don’t know why Napoléon accepted him. It may have been because he was so eager to follow him. It may also have been the prospect of having sex with his rather lose wife
Albine Hélène. Yes, he did have sex with her! In June 1816 she had a daughter who was
christened
Hélène de Montholon. We still don’t know who her dad was.
Napoléon's employees and friends treated him as a ruling monarch as long as he lived. Britons which meet him personally spooked to him as a foreign monarch unless he had said that they did not need to. Officially he was called general Bonaparte at the beginning even
lieutenant-general Bonaparte! For a start the party was kept on board a ship that was anchored outside England's coast. For security reasons Napoléon was not allowed to get ashore. During the time the British government discussed what they would do with him. General
Arthur Wellesley (more famous as the duke of Wellington) recommended
Saint Helen. It was easy to guard and had a pleasant
climate. Arthur had visited the island himself when he was on the way home from India. That was the way it of cause got too. The party was transferred to an other ship with destination Saint Helena. 69 days later they where there. It was in October 1815. The Britons tried to make it as comfortable for Napoléon as possible. As long as it did not prevent them from guarding him, of cause. They tried to protect him at least as much as preventing attempted escape. The island was easily made escape-proof. The coasts consist of high, steep rocks. The British government kept track of everyone who went ashore or left the harbour. It was only one more place where it was considered possible to get down to the shore. Every ship who approached the place would be stopped by the British navy.
Napoléon would got to live in a mansion named
Longwood House. But it had to be renovated and extended first. It took about two months. During the time Napoléon lived in a pavilion that was situated in the garden of a rich family's house. There he lived with five male followers. He liked to ride and work in Longwood House' garden. When his legs become too weak to allow riding he instead used to ride in his carriage. Indoors he could read, dictate, play billiards, chess and card games with
Henri. Napoléon preferred outdoor activities. Had he decided to keep indoors he easily become bored.
The first quarter of 1816 Napoléon felt ill for a couple of days in the middle of each month. The followers noticed a general degeneration of his health even if he did not say anything. About the turn of the month April/May he fell ill again. He had been stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. Before he had recovered completely he was stricken one more time. So it continued year after year. No contemporary
physician could tell what Napoléon suffered from. Therefore the repeated sub-lethal poisonings could continue for years. It took until the 1950ies until someone found out what Napoléon had suffered from. It become possible through the publication of
Louis' diaries.
A little more than six weeks before Napoléon died the
arsenic was partly replaced with
antimony. Two days later
Charles offered to nurse him during the nights. It was normally Jean Abram Noverraz' job. But he had suddenly fallen ill. The antimony resulted in violent vomiting. Eventually his stomach was so overworked that he stopped to vomit.
Francesco and
Archibald begun to worry about if he would survive. Charles wrongfully asserted that a certain mercury salt (
calomel) once had saved Napoléon's life. Archibald agreed to give it a chance but not Francesco. Two other
physicians where called in so that they could discuss the issue. All except Francesco let themselves to be subdued. Napoléon was given an enormous dose of the mercury salt. Earlier the same day he had been fooled to swallow a drink that was seasoned with bitter
almonds.
Potassium cyanide from the bitter almonds reacted with the acidity of the stomach and with the mercury salt. The result was other mercury salts,
mercuric cyanide and free
mercury. As a consequence of the poisoning Napoléon now laid helpless in his bed. Within 36 hours after he had swallowed the medicine he had lost his consciousness. After a little more than 48 hours he was dead. It was in the evening the 5th of May 1821. The following day an
autopsy was performed on the dead man. Francesco had company of seven British physicians but it was he who held the scalpel. After the autopsy hair and beard-stubble was shaved off. A cast was made of the front half of the head together with parts of the neck and some of the chest. The dead man was washed and dressed. Eventually the body was laid in a coffin out of tin. The tin coffin was soldered close and placed in one of wood. It was placed in its turn in one of lead which was also soldered close. The lead coffin was placed in one more of wood. Napoléon was buried there on
Saint Helena in a place that is called Sane Valley. There the Britons had built a gave vault out of stone. When Napoléon was dead and buried the followers could return to Europe.
In 1840 king
Louis Philippe decided that Napoléon's coffin should be brought to France. A French ship was sent to
Saint Helena. Several people which had known Napoléon where present when the grave was opened. When the innermost coffin was cut open they got the surprise of their lives. The dead man was almost intact! Everyone who remembered how Napoléon had looked recognised the dead man. The body's high
arsenic content – combined with the two airtight coffins – had stopped almost all decomposition. The three innermost coffins where kept. They where placed in an additional one out of lead then in two more out of wood. (All wooden coffins where made of different woods.) Finally it was laid in a sarcophagus out of red
porphyry in
the Invalides in
Paris. There he lies buried to this day.”
“There where two persons which could had poisoned Napoléon. One was
Charles who was in charge of the wine cellar. The other was the
valet Étienne Saint-Dennis. He was nicknamed Ali. No-one of the two had any good alibi. There are no real
evidence against any of them but the indications against Charles are considerably more. Several times he said to people that a new attack was to be expected. Then he was usually right. Furthermore, he knew several months in advance which symptoms Napoléon would get. He wrote it in letters to his wife which he sent after she had left the island. In present tense he described things that had yet not occurred! 25 years later he wrote a book about his experiences on
Saint Helena. His description differs radically from the other persons'. Certain parts are so artificial that they only add to the suspicions against him. Nothing suggests that Ali knew in advance what would happen to Napoléon. He did not come with any obviously exorbitant assertions either. Something Charles did several times in his book. Ali is also less likely for an other reason. Imagine that someone has poisoned an other man to death 19 years ago. He gets an invitation to be present when the victim's grave is opened. The victim will be shown to him an several others. Would he then accept? Ali was present on Saint Helena when Napoléon's grave was opened. Charles was the only invited one who was not present despite he would have been able.
Many others have been suspected for poisoning Napoléon. Here is a list of them:
§
Hudson Lowe was
governor of
Saint Helena. He had nothing to do with what Napoléon ate and drunk. He has been unfairly blamed for something that he could neither had done nor prevented.
§
Henri and his family where the only followers which did not live in
Longwood House. (They lived in a house nearby.) It was only the last six weeks that he at all handled Napoléon's food and drink. He then helped to nurse Napoléon who had become so weak that he needed help 24 hours a day. It was always in daytime except for the last but one night. Until then Napoléon was worst in the nights when
Charles nursed him.
§
Louis seem to have been the person who most nursed Napoléon. The problem with him is that he was one of the six adult men which had been stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. An assassin who poisons himself is too clumsy to avoid detection!
§ Abram has an excellent alibi. To the day six weeks before Napoléon died he was stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. He barely recovered in time to bid farewell to his dying ruler. By then Napoléon already laid unconscious.
§ Jean Baptiste Pierron was
Longwood House' cook. He did not know which portion would be served to who. Consequentially he could not poison Napoléon without poisoning everyone who ate with him. People which ate with Napoléon rarely fell ill. On the contrary everyone had their own whine bottle which makes the one who was in charge of the wine cellar more suspicious. Sure, Jean served the desserts. But several times Napoléon become worse without eating any dessert.
§ The four
physicians mentioned in the first paragraph have been accused for causing Napoléon's death. The problem is that Napoléon was ill even when no-one of them where there. Furthermore, he was sceptic to physicians. It was easy to count the times he swallowed any medicine at all.
Napoléon may have called
Charles ‘the most faithful of the faithful’. However, he just become fooled by an unusually ingratiating hypocrite. It was how Charles got Napoléon's trust: though his constant ingratiation. Furthermore, Napoléon lived in the illusion that loyalty could be bought. It is hard to think that Charles could had nursed Napoléon – helped him with things he in fact needed help with – without feeling some kind of sympathy. He might had thought something like ‘I have to kill him but I can't let him suffer more than necessary’.
It is entirely possible that
Charles acted on his own. In that case he was solely responsible for Napoléon's death. There is no evidence for any conspiracy. If Napoléon fell victim to any such there where two possible assignors. One was Charles' close friend and France'
crown prince
Charles Philippe de Capet. The crown prince was a well-known intriguer who advocated political assassinations. The other was Charles' adoptive dad
Charles Louis de Sémonville. We know that Charles visited him shortly before he joined Napoléon. It is also possible that both where involved. The adoptive dad would then had conveyed a commission which he had got from the crown prince. Was there an assignor Charles would not have had any choice. Had he refused he would have been killed so that he could not reveal anything. Someone else had followed Napoléon with secret commission to poison him.”
I am not an expert, just an ordinary sceptic fascinated by Napoléon. But I DO have written sources to all my claims. Questioners will be answered to the best of my ability.
2008-10-06 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
This review is transcluded from Talk:Napoleon I of France/GA2. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.
Thank you for your GA nomination. I have now reviewed the article according to the Good article criteria, and posted the review below.
1.1 Prose
1.2 Manual of Style
I've made a few tweaks here and there:
3 Coverage
I thoroughly disagree with the above comment. Napoleon is presented in this article as "personally anti-semitic", in flagrant contradiction with the content of the article on him, and the article "Napoleon and the Jews", in which we learn that he was centuries ahead of his time in treating Jews as first class citizens throughout Europe (and incurring the hostility of just about every major power for doing so). His(supposed) anti-semitism, as referred to in the article, is ridiculous: when you read about his liberating and assimilating the Jews and follow the link to the article on anti-semitism (with an obvious section on the Nazi regime and the Night of Cristal), it's difficult to see what basis (and I should add that no reference is cited to justify the claim that he was "personally antisemitic") there is for saying that he wasn't a philosemite. For the sake of encyclopedic neutrality, it would be normal to cite an author who made such a claim, but there are many more (including Jewish authors and statesmen) who consider Napoleon as their liberator. I therefore propose that the phrase "Napoleon was personally anti-semitic" be removed, or modified to reflect the fact that it is an opinion, and not an established fact. Executeur ( talk) 20:17, 6 January 2009 (UTC)
As I said there are many sources who would take exception to the allegation that he was anti-semitic. Ben Weider quotes a statement he made in reply to anti-semitic opponents of his policy of assimilation within France "This is not the way to solve the Jewish question. I will never accept any proposaIs that will obligate the Jewish people to leave France, because to me the Jews are the same as any other citizen in our country. It takes weakness to chase them out of the country, but it takes strength to assimilate them." You can find it on the link to his article on the subject.
McLynn's argument is based on the premise that forbidding usury was an attack against the Jews, rather than against usurers (not all of whom were Jewish), which misses the point that Napoleon's policy was an assimilationist one: the Jews were to be equal citizens and preserve their religion, but they were accordingly ruled by the same laws as other citizens and their religion was organised by the Sanhedrin. If you compare the article "Napoléon et les Juifs" with "Napoleon and the Jews", you'll find that there's a different slant depending on whether it's the French article ("assimilation = good") or the English one "assimilation = ambiguous". It's a cultural impass. In the article "Napoleon and the Jews", the allegation of antisemitism is left in, but balanced against Napoleon's own quoted opinions on the subject. And as I said above, in his day anti-semitism was socially acceptable, so I think we can consider that he was going against accepted opinion, given that he was seen as so favourable to the Jews that the Russian Orthodox Church labelled him the "Anti Christ and Enemy of God"(Vincent Cronin, Napoleon, HarperCollins 1994, p315)... titles normally reserved for the Devil! Executeur ( talk) 17:14, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
As the section on the cause of his death already runs over 200 words, this link may interest you http://www.jewishtribune.ca/TribuneV2/content/view/553/5/ Executeur ( talk) 17:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
5 Stability
6 Images
I have placed the article on hold to allow the above concerns to be addressed. This will last for approximately one week, although can be extended if constructive editing is still taking place. I'll check back here regularly, and please get in touch if you have any questions. Regards, EyeSerene talk 09:08, 15 July 2008 (UTC)
Thank you for the improvements you have made to this article. I now have no hesitation in passing it as a Good article, and have listed it as such as WP:GA. For further improvement in the future, the "Notes and references" section could be divided into separate Footnotes and References, and a parenthetical referencing system might be useful in trimming the list a bit.
Great job; well done! EyeSerene talk 16:27, 16 July 2008 (UTC)
Napoleon had four physicians during the span of his last years. The first two were mad men, eventually kicked out his so called "Emperor's palace". The next 2 gave him poison, that at the time were things that healed you. But really they made him even sicker and dipose of his guts thru his intestinal track. Some recall him slithering and moping on the ground as if he were a snake.He locked himself inside his bedroom and refused to eat or drink for 2 days when news spread Josephine had died. His last words were "France, the army, my son, Josephine". And then,..the immortal never forgotten emperor .....died. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.28.49.134 ( talk) 03:02, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
You are mixing up a great deal here. First, I see no reason to think that Barry O'Meara or John Stokoe where mad. Secondly, Napoléon rarely swallowed any medicine at all. Third, Josephine died in 1814: a year befor Napoléon artrived to Saint Helena. Forth, the famous last words where made up by Charles Tristan de Montholon who has turn out to be a frequent liar. I will post a longer description of his exile, illness and death under the subtile ”Napoleon's Death” as soon as it has been proof-reed by my fellow Swedish sceptic Peter Olausson.
2008-10-01 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
I should express myself more clearly. How many factual errors can you fit into just seven sentences? These are the errors I can find:
1. I see no reason to think that Barry Edward O'Meara was mad. The same is true for John Stokoe.
2. Barry Edward O'Meara was sent away because the governor thought he was the poisoner. If that had been true Napoléon would have recovered compleatly after Barry left. This never occurred. Instead he remained more or less ill until he died. John Stokoe was sent away because he had taken a bribe from Napoléon to send a special letter to his wife Marie-Louise.
3. Longwood House is not a palace, it is a jerry-built mason.
4. Francesco Antommarchi did not make Napoléon worse. In fact, Napoléon was less ill in mid-1820 than a year before when he had no physician. If had been Archibald Arnott who had made him worse his disease would have changed character after they first met. Napoléon’s disease did change character but this happened a week before Archibald examined him for the first time. Anyway, Napoléon was sceptic to physicians and rarely swallowed any medicine at all.
5. The formulation “dipose of his guts thru his intestinal track” is meaningless to me. Please look up the words “ gut” and “ intestinal tract”.
6. Joséphine de Beauharnais died in May 1814. Napoléon was told about her death when he ruled on Elba. I can well understand that he become severely depressed. However, claiming that he neither ate nor drunk for two days seams like an exaggeration to me.
7. Your claimed last words are a corruption of the famous last words made up by Charles Tristan de Montholon. I am not sure about his real last words but they might well have been “Give me my chamber-pot”. (This was probably just a standard phase since what he really needed was help to relieve himself.) I know he said so several times – and barely anything else – the day before he died. By the evening he was no longer able to speak. By four a clock the next morning he had lost his consciousness. 14 hours later he was dead.
If you have not already done so please read my inlays under the subtitle ”Napoleon's Death”. I know it is much but it would be very enlightening for you.
2009-01-17 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
Tpbradbury: Do you mean that accents, cédille & others are forbidden in en:Wikipedia? It hurts my eyes terribly to see Champs Elysees and Republique francaise. In my opinion as a professional book editor working with six languages, even in a text in English, these are mistakes because one should either anglicise the word or, if kept in its language of origin, respect the original spelling. In N's article: 3rd line of *Origins & education*, one can read "though he later adopted the more French-sounding Napoleon Bonaparte". Well, if *he*, that is N, adopted the more French-sounding Napoleon Bonaparte, it stands to reason that *he* also adopted the accent on Napoléon.
It is also difficult for me to understand why accents should be banished in N's article while they are all over en:wikipedia. For instance, coup d'etat directs the reader to Coup d'état, Josephine de Beauharnais to Joséphine de Beauharnais, Champs Elysees to Champs Élysées.
Furthermore, does it make any sense to give a quote in French & remove all the accents? This is note n° 6 of N's article, which I had corrected, but that was immediately reverted: Letter published in (1870) in Henri Plon: Correspondance Napoleon. Dumaine, p.420. ASIN B0013Z9HGO. ^ Article 1.- Le Peuple français nomme, et le Senat proclame Napoleon Bonaparte Premier consul à vie. Translation: The French people name, and the Senate proclaims Napoleon Bonaparte First Consul for life Together with the French words without accents, whoever first wrote the article did not give the correct title for Henri Plon's publication of N's letters in 1870. The title is not "Correspondance Napoleon" but "Correspondance de Napoléon Ier".
Omitting an accent in French can change the meaning of the sentence as the accent on a verb indicates past participle tense. For instance: "Le chasseur tue pendant la chasse..." (= The hunter kills during the hunt) vs "Le chasseur tué pendant la chasse..." (= The hunter killed during the hunt). If the accent is omitted when the sentence is inserted in a text in English, then the reader will not know whether the hunter killed or was killed.
All this being said, and as your corrections came while I was in the middle of my own, I am stopping doing any editing on this article. It irks me to see the numerous historical inexactitudes with which en:wikipedia is filled, and have some silly rules keep serious editors from participating in the real *meat of the subject*, while vandals are allowed to flourish. Frania W. ( talk) 20:31, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
P.S. By the way, why is there such a choice in the insert box listing "latin" if we can not use such symbols as Á á É é Ê ê ë ú Œ œ ? Ridiculous!
The title of the article is Napoleon I of France (no accent). If you read above, when taken through the GA review it was pointed-out by the reviewer that the article was inconsistent in its use of diacritics so in order to make it consistent I took the diacritics out to be consistent with the title and the reviewer agreed. It seems difficult to justify not putting diacritics in the title and then suddenly putting them in the article. I think Napoleon is unsual because it's a name English speakers anglicise by not putting the accent in but they keep accents for other words such as in Coup d'état hence why many articles have diacritics. I think it might be possible to include some of the diacritics you inputted without being inconsistent. Thanks for pointing out some errors and please note any historical inexactitudes. I see you've written this on the talk page? it makes more sense just to write notes to me on my talk page. Tom B ( talk) 20:40, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Good evening, Tom & Russ:
(1) I have come to terms with Napoléon losing his accent in English, that's the way the Ameranglos write it, and I accept it. But it should not mean that there was a consensus between the English & the Americans to remove all diacritics from all French words in all Anglo texts.
(2) Please note that when I edited the article, except for the one "Napoléon Bonaparte" saying how Bonaparte himself chose to spell his name in French (which was my reason to put an accent on that Napoléon), I had not touched the other Napoleon of the text, thus respecting the Anglo-American entente cordiale on this point!
(3) In my opinion, the argument of inconsistency is being carried too far. If no accents are to be used, then let us not use foreign words & let's have every word anglicised. Instead of talking about Napoleon's *Grande Armée* camouflaged as Grande Armee, then let's write Napoleon's Great Army but please no Grande Armee. In other words, either French or English, but no amputated French terms.
(4) Should we want to carry this no diacritics policy throughout en:wikipedia, are we going to redirect articles such as those on André Le Nôtre, Madame de Sévigné, Marie-Thérèse de France, Champs Élysées to Andre Le Notre, Madame de Sevigne, Marie-Therese de France, Champs Elysees?
(5) As for not respecting French orthography in a quote in French, it makes no sense in an encyclopedic article. A letter is a letter. e is not é or è or ë or ê. And if you have ou (=or) and où (=where) what imbroglio would be created in skipping the accent on ù! The same with à (= at, to) and a (= has). And I shall not tell you what one would be writing if skipping the cedilla under the c of leçon!
I rest my case. Frania W. ( talk) 23:37, 26 September 2008 (UTC)
Hello. I just wanted to point out the fact that Napoleon's wallpaper may have been his murderer. According to [ [2]], if Napoleon's wallpaper was green during his time imprisoned in Saint Helena, the green dye on the wall might have been Scheele Green, a colouring pigment which was cheap and easy to make. When damp and moldy, Scheele Green would let off arsenic in vapour form, and considering the large amounts of time spent inside his room, Napoelon may very well have died from inhaled arsenic poisoning. A woman named Shirley Bradley had come forward with a piece of Napoleon's wallpaper which she had found in an old scrapbook, and when it was tested for arsenic, small quantities were found. It was, however, impossible to find out whether this really was Napoleon's wallpaper until the painting "Death of Napoleon" by Charles de Steuben was studied closely, and guess what? The wallpaper on the room is the same pattern as was seen on Shirley Bradley's little piece.
Just some food for thought...maybe this should be mentioned in the article?
Harry54321987 ( talk) 18:14, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
< http://www.grand-illusions.com/articles/napoleons_wallpaper/>
- Hmm...just read over the article again and realize that there is a note which mentions it briefly...in my opinion it should be added into the "Cause of Death" section, since it is a theory on his death.
Harry54321987 ( talk) 19:42, 11 October 2008 (UTC)
You are wrong about the painting. I have seen a copy of it in higher resolution and I can tell that the colour – but not pattern – is the same. The painting shows a geometric pattern while the preserved pice of wallpaper has flowers on it. The paitning was made a few years later by a man who was not there. He had access to the furniture and had the opportunity to meet those people on the painting which was still alive. The depiction of the dying man really resemblence his so the artist probably used his death mask as the model for him. About the wallpapers he may only had been told what colour they where. However, the preserved pice really was on the wall when Napoléon died. I belived the wallpaper hypotesis myself untill Ben Weider told me that they where put up three years after Napoléon fell ill. As such the mouldy wallpapers could not had made him ill in the first place. Please read my inlays under the subtitle ”Napoleon's Death”. If you want to continue the discussion I prefer to do it there.
2008-10-13 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
Thanks very much for clearing that up, Lena. If you have a high-resolution copy of The Death of Napoleon, do you think you could send it to me at dj-its@hotmail.com? I've never been able to get my hands on one... Harry54321987 ( talk) 21:43, 13 October 2008 (UTC)
I have searched a lot myself but the best I have found on the Web is this:
http://www.napoleon.org/en/popup_zoom.asp?identity=157050&type=object
A sharper version in greyscale can be found in “Assassination at St. Helena” by Sten Forshufvud and Ben Weider. If you really want I can scan it within a week and send it to you together with a list of who is who in the image. The list is currently written in Swedish. However, it should not be too hard to translate it into English. I personally prefer the older sketch since I consider it more realistic. It can be found on Wikimedia Commons:
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Steuben_-_Mort_de_Napoleon.jpg
The dying man lies strait down but with his head on high pillow(s). Henri Gratien Bertrand must have been very tiered since he had been kept awake for a day and a night, then slept for a day, then had kept awake for an other night and a day. He is sitting in a relaxed pose resulting from trying to subside compleatly into the chair while still wearing his bullet-proof west. In general, people behave the much way I would expect them to do. Louis Joseph Marchand (he with the large, dark sideburns) seem shocked and four other persons burst into cry. One of them is Jean Abram Noverraz (he who sits on the floor in the lower right corner). In the final painting he just bows his head, keeps his eyes closed and looks sad. I consider that a less likely reaction.
2008-12-30 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
At a second thought I remember that a high resolution colour version was printed in “Illustrerad Vetenskap” ( Scandinavia’s largest popular scientific magazine) in 2001. I don’t have the issue myself and I don’t remember which issue it was. What I do have is a greyscale copy of the article in question. The picture of this painting is missing since it was intentionally covered when the article was copied. I then thought that it was much less realistic than really is the case. Those are the reasons I can remember:
¤ I thought the climate of Saint Helena was hotter than it is. The island is tropical but not so very hot. The surrounding seas are colder than you would expect from the latitude. In fact, without the global warming experienced since the 1980ies there would not be any tropical cyclones in the South Atlantic. Altitude also plays a roll as Saint Helena has a quite upland character and is highly hilly. So European summer clothes should not have been any problem.
¤ I thought Napoléon’s existence on Saint Helena was as poor as it could be without being in need. This impression was based on a drawing showing him in a manual worker’s clothes. Now I think he only dressed like that when he worked in the garden which he enjoyed. In reality he did what he could to preserve his old imperial habits. This included proper cloths for his followers. He got maintenance from the British government equivalent of the governor’s salary. He also had a great deal of ready money with him from start (think gold and silver coins with his own image). The Britons knew this as they had counted all his possessions when he delivered himself up to them.
¤ I though that the dying man in the painting did not look ill at all. Now I admit that he looks a little pale but not nearly as bad as I imagine (lean with a swollen belly, very pale and yellowish skin, sparse hair grown to almost twice its normal length, sparse facial hair not shaven for at least a week). Since he was unconscious for at least 14 hours before he died he would have looked compleatly relaxed including a slightly open mouth. In general, people look much better than they could credibly have done – like Hollywood stars in fact! For example, Charles Tristan de Montholon (the man holding a large envelope) is portrayed as handsome as Mel Gibson could look with the right make-up. I took Mel as an example because he happens to have the same shape of face as Charles. What I mean is that the exact distances between the features of the face are the same.
Anyway, it is from this printed version I got my ideas of how the wallpapers where depicted. If you want to know more about how and from what Napoléon died please read my inlays under the “Napoleon’s Death”.
2008-12-31 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.229.19.102 ( talk) 16:44, 31 December 2008 (UTC)
Laplace is called a scientific "genius" in the article. The word "genius" is banned as a peacock word in Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.41.51.240 ( talk) 12:52, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
This is, overall, a good short article on Napoleon I. I noticed two errors. First, in the overview, the author speaks of the Grande Armee as being "decimated" in Russia. In fact, it was almost annihilated - decimation, of course, means literally the loss of a tenth.
Second error: The Battle of Borodino did not result in the deaths of 44,000 Russians and 35,000 French. The total casualties on each side were approximately the numbers above (exact figures are unknown and unknowable), including the wounded and missing. Deaths would have totaled somewhere between one third and one half of the total casualties.
Speaking more generally, the author of the article relies far too much on McGlynn and Schom as references. McGlynn is a fine writer, but a professional biographer -- by no means an expert on Napoleon. Schom's book presents his own interpretation of the Corsican, not necessarily a dispassionate one. A broader use of source material would benefit this article.
Jonvt ( talk) 00:06, 27 October 2008 (UTC) Jon Harrison
There is mention of the use of the Napoleonic Code in many places, however, there is no mention of its use in Quebec, Canada. Could this be looked into by someone with the authority to edit such a page, and included in the Napoleon article if deemed appropriate? Dan O'Keefe ( talk • contribs) 21:33, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
Shoudn't the article be titled "Napoleon I of the French", since that is how he titled himself? I realised he titled himself "of the French" rather than "of France" as a cheap populistic move, but since that was the official title, shouldn't we have it located there... - Victory's Spear ( talk) 20:51, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
On the subject of Napoleon, I remember reading somewhere that Napoleon put his hand in his coat in that portrait because of a nasty skin condition inflicting him. It had something to do with an insecet parisite called "
Scabies". I had my doubts, but I looked up the article, and it resembled exactly what I read. I can't recall exactly what I read however, but I know Napoleon did this because of a nasty skin disease. Unfortunately, I am unable to cite it, and thus it can not be included. Does anyone else know of this? I honestly recall reading it... it was just a long time ago.
TurtleShroom! :) †Jesus Loves You and Died for you!† 16:13, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
By the way, I actually read that the entire short Napoleon stereotype is false: a book said Napoleon was actually an inch or so taller than an average French-man.
how did napoleon help start nationalism????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.139.248.249 ( talk) 23:18, 10 December 2008 (UTC)
What was his native language? Corsu? Sca ( talk) 20:54, 19 December 2008 (UTC)
In the article it says that Napoleon's fair treatment of the Jews made him unpopular amongst the orthodox Russians :
he was seen as so favourable to the Jews that the Russian Orthodox Church labelled him the "Anti Christ and Enemy of God" Maybe this was part of the reason the orthodox church resented Napoleon, but I think it was more to do with the atheism of the French Revolution from which Napoleon made his name. Didn't he kill a few Bishops who disagreed with his decisions? I'm not sure, it just seems a bit unfair to suggest the Russians only distrusted him because he didn't persecute Jewish people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.157.247.72 ( talk) 21:36, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
Yes I am saying that is one of the reasons, but it was not the only one, the Atheism of New France was one of the Orthodox Church's main concerns, saying it was just the anti-semitism is A) being too simplistic and B) portraying the Russians as 2 dimensional villains.
p121 of Geoffrey Hosking's Russia People and Empire it says of Paul the first:
'He Accepted the office of Grand Master of the Knights of Malta after the Knights's home island had fallen to Napoleon, and used the image to cultivate his image as a doughty defender of Christianity against the aggresive atheism of the French Revolution.'-- 81.157.247.72 ( talk) 18:19, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Why is there no mention of Napoleon creating a hospital on the site of the Carmelite monastery at Mount Carmel?
From Mount Carmel entry: "in 1799 the building was finally converted into a hospital, by Napoleon,"
It's an interesting point to addend to this: "In early 1799, he (Napoleon) moved the army into the Ottoman province of Damascus (Syria and Galilee)." -- Anarchoost ( talk) 04:12, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
The passage linking napolean with the term "bogeyman" is uncited and contradicts the bogeyman page that it links to. The statement in its current form is unsubtantiated and unlikely. I suggest removing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sjmtlewy ( talk • contribs) 19:51, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
It appears that the earlier discussion wasn't complete enough, as my edit was undone when I started changing the names; however, it also seems clear that the current way the article uses both Bonaparte and Napoleon throughout the text without discretion is unacceptable: eg. one sentence refers to him as Napoleon, and then the next uses Bonaparte. This may initially have been done as a way to make sure both terms were used, but it reads poorly and appears scattered and without reason.
The idea suggested above was to use Bonaparte in the article up until his election to First Consul, and Napoleon after that point, in similarity with contemporary French usage. IMO this is best. What do you all think? The Fiddly Leprechaun · Catch Me! 23:49, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Leprechaun & Tom: Just went thru a edit conflict with Tom but put in my own changes a few minutes later. Hope I did not destroy Tom's work. If you could let me work on this another couple of hours, maybe you could check what I did afterwards. In the meantime, we would not edit conflict.
Also, to answer Leprechaun's request for *a period French newspaper*, here is one found in the article itself, and written, guess by whom??? Bonaparte himself:
Going back to article for a couple of hours. Aurevoir! Frania W. ( talk) 03:03, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Two hours later: Stopped revision at War of the Third Coalition. Waiting for your verdict. Several references in article itself show the use of the surname Bonaparte instead of first name Napoleon. In France, it is common to refer to a man by his last name, so there is nothing strange having Napoléon Bonaparte referred to as Bonaparte. Napoléon was used only when he became emperor. I believe it is much the same in English. For instance, when you talk about a general, you call him general + (first name) + surname as in General (George) Patton, General (George) Washington, not General George or George by itself. General (Charles) de Gaulle, or de Gaulle, but not Charles. I rest my case. Frania W. ( talk) 05:33, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Tom: First, let me apologise for & explain the reason of *deleting* your revision: as I clicked on Save page an edit conflict came up & I could not save. I did not want to lose my work, waited a while then tried again, which I could not do. In the meantime, your correction had been published. So I picked up my work in order to do a copy & paste then got off the correction page. When I came back, no one else was editing & I was able to paste my revision. Of course, by doing so, I *destroyed* yours and I left the following for you to understand what was happening: tpbradbury was bringing changes as I clicked to save mine. Showing my own changes (fm beginning to Italian campaign) hoping they are not going against Tom's Tom, I hope you understand what happened & accept my apologies.
Today, I read thru Tom's changes and, needing more time to prepare my case, I will not touch the text (on the name issue) until this is resolved between us. However, I noted this in his response above: to me bonaparte looks worse earlier in his life and seems more reasonable as he gets older. Tom, in France, no one knew of *Napoléon* earlier in his life as he was referred to only by the surname of *Bonaparte*. There is nothing *depersonalising* about it. When you read French book in French or look at the caption under a portrait, the name is always *Bonaparte* before his coronation. For instance, the crossing at Arcole which the Anglos title Napoleon crossing at the Bridge of the Arcole is in French Bonaparte au Pont d'Arcole with text: Le 17 novembre 1796 le général Bonaparte, drapeau en main, s’élançait seul sous la mitraille autrichienne sur le pont dont la possession devait décider du sort de la bataille d’Arcole. Cette étude est plus belle que l’œuvre achevée qui se trouve à Versailles. Gros, dont la famille était suspecte de royalisme, obtint, grâce à son maître David, un passeport pour l’Italie qui le mettait à l’abri en lui permettant de travailler. C’est là qu’à Milan, par l’entremise de Joséphine, il commença, au début de 1797, le portrait de Bonaparte. Bousculé par le modèle, qui n’avait pas le temps de poser dans le moment où il concluait cette géniale compagne d’Italie qui lui ouvrirait la voie du pouvoir...
Furthermore, as I read the references & bibliography used in this en:wiki article, I am made to realise that not one French author is listed. Very interesting! Recently, I read something, which I must recuperate, by a well-known French historian who wrote of the differences in the same man who was known by two names *Bonaparte* & *Napoléon*, giving the impression that he was two different men.
Today being an exceptional day, I may not be able to return to this, but am looking forward to Tom's response and *pardon*! Cordialement, Frania W. ( talk) 14:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Having learned French history in France, it is difficult for me to switch to Anglo-based treatment of Napoléon Bonaparte! And I often get shocked reading other articles in en:wikipedia, particularly those dealing with French royalty.
You must be correct with his mother calling him *Napoleone* (unless she had a nickname for him!). When Bonaparte (mais oui!) became Premier Consul, he was referred to as *Bonaparte*, *Napoléon Bonaparte*, never *Napoléon* alone, and mostly as *Premier Consul*. Remember, listed by their last name only, the three consuls were Bonaparte, Sieyès & Ducos. I personally cannot revise French history because Anglos prefer to be on a first-name basis.
Because of my profession, I do not always live with my personal library & must wait until I return to France to have access to my books. However, knowing who several French authors are on the subject of our dear *Nappy*, I shall try to find documents in the Internet, possibly with translation in English.
Cordialement, Frania W. ( talk) 15:42, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Tom: I would tend to agree with this as when he became Premier Consul à vie Napoléon Bonaparte was only one step away from becoming Emperor. Will return to you when I have more arguments on my side, hoping we come to an agreement. In the meantime, you will have to excuse me because I must attend another coronation! (on TV).
Aurevoir! Frania W. ( talk) 16:18, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
For all it's worth, here is a site I just found. Unfortunately, it is only in French, the English version being under construction. But it will show you how the French refer to Napoléon Bonaparte at various times of his life. (I did not see anywhere the name of the author). I believe the article proves my point. For better proof, I will try to find historical documents.
http://napoleonbonaparte.ifrance.com/
plus link to Pierre Larousse Life of Napoléon Bonaparte
plus what I posted earlier above, a newspaper founded in 1797 by Bonaparte himself & published in Paris, Le Journal de Bonaparte et des hommes vertueux.
I realise that all these are in French & cannot be used as proof/verifiability by non-French speaking en:wiki readers, but then, why work on a foreign subject if the use of foreign sources is not allowed because they are not written in English?
Frania W. ( talk) 22:36, 20 January 2009 (UTC)
Continuation of above:
Napoléon Homme de Paix, written (in French) by Ben Weider , CM, CQ, SBStJ, Ph. D
http://www.napoleonicsociety.com/french/pdf/Nap_paix.pdf
If you cannot read this 25 page text written in French, please look at caption by the illustrations & you will see the use of the surname *Bonaparte* all the way to his coronation. In general terms, Weider makes use of the name Napoléon, but within certain periods of Napoléon Bonaparte's life (pro Empire/Empire period), he uses surname or first name, as they were used at the time. *Bonaparte* is used by itself, then *Général Bonaparte* after he was named general, then *Premier Consul Bonaparte*. Only after his coronation does *Napoléon* gets used by itself.
Use of *Bonaparte*:
p. 5, 17 November 1796, Arcole, 17 novembre 1796 - Sous la mitraille autrichienne, Bonaparte saisit...;
p. 6, 14 January 1797, Rivoli, 14 janvier 1797 - Les victoires extraordinaires de Bonaparte en Italie...;
p. 7, C'est alors que Bonaparte fut nommé Général en chef de l'Armée d'Italie... 15 mai 1796 - Bonaparte entre à Milan;
p. 7, in 2e Coalition: William Pitt sachant Bonaparte en Egypte...;
p. 7, Mais Bonaparte n'était plus là.;
p. 8, Et ce fut le retour de Bonaparte, rentré d'Egypte.;
p. 8, caption by picture: Marengo 14 juin 1800 - Le Premier Consul Bonaparte s'arrache au travail...;
p. 9, En 1803, ... les attentats contre la vie de Bonaparte...;
p. 9, Bonaparte rassemble une armée à Boulogne...;
Use of *Napoléon*:
p. 9, Mais les Autrichiens avancent en Bavière et Napoléon, il est Empereur des Français depuis le 18 mai 1804...;
p. 9, Le 14 octobre 1806, ... Iéna, où commande l'Empereur en personne...;
p. 9, Napoléon entre triomphalement à Berlin. [...] Napoléon quitte Berlin et s'installe à Varsovie. [...] Napoléon écrase les Russes à Friedland.;
p. 10, caption by picture: Austerlitz, 2 décembre 1805 - Napoléon donne ses derniers ordres...
Idem *Napoléon* until his death.
Frania W. ( talk) 19:18, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
Honestly, im trying to create a speech 'bout him, but this article is too long. can someone put a tag for me. thnks. Albertgenii12 ( talk) 01:07, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
It's currently only a one-sentence reference in the section on the Second Italian Campaign, where I don't really think it belongs. It seems it would fit better in the next section, which deals with the slave revolt and revolution in Haiti. I know the re-establishment occured as part of the implementation of the Napoleonic Code, and I'm wondering about the date - looks like 1801, but I'm unsure and my references don't say anything definite. Anybody know for certain? The Fiddly Leprechaun · Catch Me! 01:11, 27 January 2009 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Featured article criteria I put it up for peer review in October and then dealt with suggestions, pretty helpful process: Wikipedia:Peer_review/Napoleon_I_of_France/archive1. Grateful for suggestions/edits Tom B ( talk) 18:14, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Some of the areas thin in sources are the following; the 3rd paragraph in the French Consulate, 0 sources; the 1st and 2nd paragraphs under the War of the Third Coalition has only 1 source each; all the paragraphs under the war of the fourth coaltion have only 1 source; first paragraph under the war of the 5th coalition and remarriage has only 1 source, and so on. there are some more I found which are lacking enough sources, but as I said before, this is not a major problem. Perhaps a good copy-edit along with some additional footnotes and I think this should be okay to nominate.- Kieran4 ( talk) 21:15, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
Well, I think that the images in the article are terrible. Huge stretches of the article are pure white space; the images you do have are certainly not the best available (an artists' imaginative representation of the Battle of the Pyramids from 1896 instead of a contemporary painting, I cannot for the life of me figure out why Louise of Mecklenburg-Strelitz is deemed significant enough to have her portrait on this page, nor can I figure out why you would choose to depict 18 Brumaire solely by a satirical print when there are several great paintings of the scene available); some of the most iconic paintings of Napoleon are missing, e.g.:
And there are no paintings showing Napoleon in battle (except for the one from the Bridge of the Arcole), when he was one of the greatest generals in history renown for leading men in battle.
Such poor use of images is, IMO, totally unacceptable in a Featured Article, particularly when there is a great set of images available on Wikimedia Commons to choose from.
I tried helping out by improving the image quality, but User:Tpbradbury is unilaterally reverting the pictures I've added to the page on the grounds that I haven't achieved "consensus" (the first time I've ever heard someone make the ridiculous claim that an editor should reach consensus before editing a page).
So, I have better things to do with my time than get in an edit war with this jerk, but I will say that if you won't let me improve the article's images, then somebody else should. Adam_sk ( talk) 05:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
i think this is an important topic not covered, how can we go about including it on this page?
"I hope the time is not far off when I shall be able to unite all the wise and educated men of all the countries and establish a uniform regime based on the principles of Quran which alone are true and which alone can lead men to happiness." - Napoleon Bonaparte as Quoted in Christian Cherfils, 'Bonaparte et Islam,' Pedone Ed., Paris, France, 1914, pp. 105, 125
there is so much more he said about islam- i think it is important to give an academic perception of napolean and islam backed by authoritative sources of course! D-truthseeker ( talk) 22:54, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
At the risk of changing the subject, I am starting a new section here so that anyone who wishes to comment on how to improve this article may do so, without any commentary on the behavior of editors or the history of past revisions. It would be a nice change of pace. -- R'n'B ( call me Russ) 11:51, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
Suggested plan of action:
Tom B ( talk) 16:32, 10 March 2009 (UTC)
'manumise'. This is not the common word in English. I believe the author meant 'manumit' which means to free a person from slavery. It comes from the Latin 'manumittere'. I think this fits in more correctly with the British English used in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.134.71 ( talk) 18:18, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
"While Napoleon's mistresses had children by him, Joséphine did not produce an heir, an impossibility due either to the stresses of her imprisonment during the Terror or to an abortion she may have had in her twenties.[142]" It's from the section on Josephine/marriages.
Josephine did not produce an heir, an impossibility due...
How can an "impossibility" be due to anything? Impossible things don't have causes in the first place. Should this say: ...an heir, possibly due either... ?
I suppose it's addressing the fact that Josephine and Napoleon were both known to be separately fertile, that they clearly had sexual relations (seems clear enough) and yet no children were born? I wasn't aware that "stress" in and of itself could cause infertility (improperly performed abortions can - I assume the footnote establishes her having had an abortion - I hope), but there are many, many causes of joint infertility. If no one objects, though, I'll change the wording. Levalley ( talk) 19:26, 27 March 2009 (UTC)LeValley
I removed a line from the 'Egyptian expedition' section which read "Juan Cole sees it as propaganda, which obfuscated imperialism.[42]" for the following reasons: 1) It violates wp:fringe in that (to the best of my knowledge) it is not a widely held or prominent view. 2) It is poor style. A brief glance at this article shows no other section that includes 20th century opinions of Napoleon's actions, making Juan Cole's (and Ahmed Youssef's) opinion stand out as being out of place. Additionally, this article generally avoids judging the morality of Napoleon's actions, but this passage comes across as doing just that, proffering modern opinion of his actions. 3) The subject of this section (invasion of Egypt) has its own article which would be a better place for such a discussion.
Im going to go ahead and remove the section again, as well as the preceding line about Ahmed Youssef's opinion for the reasons listed above, if you re-add it or mean to re-add it, be sure to comment here. Bonewah ( talk) 20:01, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
small error under french empire. "Claims he seized the crown out of the hands of Pope Pius VII during the ceremony—to avoid his subjugation to the authority of the pontiff—are apocryphal; the coronation procedure had been agreed in advance." it should be Claims that. thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.177.138.9 ( talk) 22:56, 28 April 2009 (UTC)
The article refers to Napoléon as both Napoleon and Bonaparte, particularly in the first half—even using both terms in a single paragraph. There isn't any real rhyme or reason to the usages currently, and IMO we should stick to one name throughout for simplicity. (Probably Napoleon as that is how he is most commonly mentioned, though I wouldn't object either way.) The Fiddly Leprechaun · Catch Me! 23:39, 9 January 2009 (UTC)
Revisit discussion. I quite like the variety in changing the name but several reviewers have brought up question of consistency. i think the 'first consul for life' rather than just first consul, point in his life is a relevant consideration. personally it seems a bit odd to see a kid being referred to as bonaparte when he was referred to as napoleon to distinguish him from his siblings and biographers do do this. i think the time he was most referred to as bonaparte was as a general and officer. Also the brits used to refer to him as bonaparte, partly for propaganda, 'illegitimate'-pointing reasons. one route might be to simply always refer to him as Napoleon, this would be a very simple solution and would be consistent with title of the article - leaving the note regarding name change at first consul for life and that he had been referred to as general bonaparte before, Tom B ( talk) 23:40, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
It should be noted, I think, that Napoleon refered to himself as Bonaparte in all letters, even after his coronation as emperor. Although he was officially refered to as Emperor Napoleon, i think that it is atleast necessary to refer to him as Bonaprate before the corination, since that was his name of choice. -- Sverez ( talk) 17:23, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
For some reasno or another, User:Tpbradbury has reverted my edits to put a new map in to replace the old one. The new one comes directly from Napoleon Bonaparte:A Life by Alan Schom. Tpbradbury has revert my edits and put the old map in which is inaccurate and lacks a source. I propose to add in the new one which shows Napoleon's Empire at it's greatest extent according to Schom, rather than the one which is up now, that comes from Camillus, a wikipedia user.
- Kieran4 ( talk) 03:24, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
I dont think the distinction between allied and rebellious is very meaningfull. Furthermore the Illyrian Province should be a part of the Empire proper. Gerard von Hebel ( talk) 19:09, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I see, that despite the excellent work and citations above, no one has seen fit to remove the erroneous (urban legend) material from the Death section. That's too bad. Levalley ( talk) 19:59, 27 March 2009 (UTC)LeValley
What do you consider an urban legend? I am not an expert but if there is really any factoid about his death I would be glad to debunk it.
2009-05-23 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
I have now read the texts under the subtitles “Death” and “Cause of death”. The first error I found was Napoléon’s famous last words which were made up by Charles Tristan de Montholon. At the time Charles claimed those last words to have been uttered no-one else could hear any words or even recognisable language sounds! They did hear a sound but it was more like a music instrument than a human voice. Nowadays it is considered to have been due to gasses from an over-pressured stomach escaping through his throat. As such there was no intention behind it. I am not sure which his real last words where but they may well have been “Give me my chamber-pot”. This was most likely only a standard phrase since what he really needed was help to use it. I know he said so several times – and barely anything else – the day before he died. By the evening he was no longer able to speak. By four o’clock in the morning he had lost his consciousness. 14 hours later he was dead. Please note that I don’t claim his last words to have been uttered in English since Napoléon did not speak this language. They must have been in French since all the men which nursed him towards the end where French-spoken. It would be nice if someone could tell how they might have sounded in French. But watch out for Anglicisms! Please don’t translate the sentence word-by-word unless the result is in accordance with French usage.
The second error is the name of the place on Saint Helena where Napoléon was buried. In “Assassination at St. Helena” by Sten Forshufvud and Ben Weider it is called “Geranium Valley”. This name is completely understandable to me since I know that relatives of the commonly cultivated geranium are native to Saint Helena. But this book is from 1978 so the name may have changed since then. The article on Saint Helena calls it “Sane Valley”. I don’t know why it would be called so but I really like it because there is no “sane” reason to think that he was not buried there. However, this should not be interpreted as saying that people claiming something else are “insane”. People can have just any crazy ideas about things outside their direct experience without necessarily being mad. This article calls the place “Valley of the Willows”. I don’t know why it would be called so but this is the only passage where I have found it.
The third error is Francesco Antommarchi’s conclusion on the cause of death. In reality he thought that Napoléon had died from hepatitis. The claim that Francesco found any tumour at all is based on a mistranslation. I find it compleatly plausible that Carlo Buonaparte died from stomach cancer but that is not a valid argument since this disease is not hereditary. It was just assumed to be hereditary by people having pre-scientific ideas of heredity. I also accept that Napoléon’s siblings Lucien and Elisa died from stomach cancer but this has nothing to do with the genes they had in common. If you want to know the real cause of Napoléon’s death please read my inlays under the subtitle “Napoleon’s Death”. Although details may change to better fit the evidence the description of the main course of events are based on so much evidence that they are highly unlikely to be disproved.
The forth error is not so much an error of the author as an error made by the scientists refered to. The Italians tried to measure the arsenic content of four hair samples from Napoléon: one taken when he was only one year old, one taken in 1814 when he was on Elba, and two taken after his death. They claimed that they all had an arsenic content a hundred times what is considered normal today! Personally, I think their measuring equipment was too insensitive for measuring any arsenic content lower than this. If so it may explain why the hair samples from his “relatives” – in fact his first wife Joséphine and his son Franz – was measured to have the same unbelievably high arsenic content. If the measurements had been correct the arsenic content of the hair sample taken from the one-year-old Napoleone would have been normal or even lower. The adult Napoléon suffered a sub-lethal arsenic poisoning shortly before abdicating for the first time. (“Sub-lethal” means potentially lethal but not necessarily.) So if the hair sample taken on Elba grew then or during the following weeks it would had contained an abnormal amount of arsenic. Yet it would have been nowhere near as the content of the hair samples taken after his death. The highest content of arsenic in any hair sample from Napoléon measured by anyone else was about 40 times the normal. This was in hairs shaved from his head the day after he died.
The hair sample from Joséphine was also taken from her after she had died. She is strongly suspected to have died from sub-lethal arsenic poisoning. If so she would have died two to four days after swallowing the poison. In this time human hair only grows 0.72 – 1.44 millimetres. So unless the hair was shaved from her head it would not contain more arsenic than normal. This would also be the case if she did die from influenza which is the other possible cause of death. What I know for sure is that Franz died from a combination of arsenic and antimony poisoning after being more or less ill for about a year. So if the hair sample from him grew during the last year of his life it would contain significantly more arsenic than normal but not nearly as high as those taken from his father after his death. Please note that every time I write “normal” I mean what is considered “normal” today. If ever given the opportunity I would not hesitate to donate my own hair for testing with the same measuring equipment as the Italians used and at least one of the sets of measuring equipment used by others. I would do it in pursuit of the objective truth as well as for the chance to give these people something to think about. However, it would be best to not tell the scientists that the hair samples come from a present day healthy woman: otherwise the reporting about the finds might be biased.
I intended to put double square brackets around the name “Louis Marchand” and link it to Louis Joseph Marchand. But I could not find anywhere to click in order to change the content of the article. Have those links been removed from the article in order to prevent sabotage? Please note that although I may sound like an expert I have never given myself out as one. I am just a sceptic with a reluctant fascination for Napoléon. Also, I really enjoy debunking both writing and reading. I will answer questions posted here to the best of my ability.
2009-08-04 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.247.167.70 ( talk) 12:03, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Found an error in the following sentence:
"He ordered a young cavalry officer, Joachim Murat to seize large cannon and used them to repel the attackers on 5 October 1795—13 Vendémiaire An IV in the French Republican Calendar. 1,400 royalists died and the rest fled..."
Unfortunately I don't have editing priviledges. Could someone please fix it to read "seize large cannons" or something of the sort?
Thank you very much. 71.75.209.76 ( talk) 01:06, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
Just yesterday, scattered pages of a novella written by Napoleon were finally put into a complete book form and the book Clisson et Eugenie will be published in autumn. Which part of the page should this be put in?
If you want a link to the source, here it is: http://chattahbox.com/world/2009/05/09/napoleon-bonaparte-a-romantic-novelist/
Here's another link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/5293757/Napoleon-Bonaparte--the-romantic-novelist.html
Ujm90 ( talk) 13:07, 9 May 2009 (UTC)
Please respect the memory of the dead. My ancestor was executed by Michel Ney's 6th Corps on April 20th 1809, in Monforte de Lemos. He had 6 small children, all younger than 10 years old, one to be born less than 3 weeks later. He was assassinated in the most cruel and grotesque manner, in front of his entire family. His wife pleaded he could be administered the Catholic Ritual of extreme unction, but the French prevented it and killed him like an animal. She gave birth prematurely his posthumous son less than 3 weeks later. We know all this because the priest who buried him wrote it down in the book of defuncts of the parish. I have enclosed a transcript here. That very same day, 1,100 innocent civilians of the same village were assassinated in a similar manner. Napoleon murdered millions of innocent civilians all over Europe, and France should be ashamed of this as much as Germany is of the Jewish Holocaust. I do not ask anything from France or the descendants of Napoleon, or those building monuments and celebrating the memory of that genocide. Just respect for the dead and historical truth. ( 167.206.29.162 ( talk) 16:28, 15 May 2009 (UTC))
This sad tale has also been posted on the talk page of the Napoleonic Wars. This war was the most brutal the world had ever seen and killed more people than any war previously, and would hold that infamous record for another 100 years (until the First World War). This is just one of perphaps millions of innocent deaths caused by French soldiers. It should be remembered though that Napoleon took advantage of the French revolution that killed hundreds of thousands of French people. Not just the guillotine in Paris killing nobles but French Republican soldiers formed 'Flying Columns' that went through a region slaughtering anyone suspected of being a royalist. In the 'Vendee' region for example it is estimated they slaughtered 250,000 people (even well known Republicans like Mayors) because the area contained an effective resistance against the revolution (Info from 'The First Total War' by David A. Bell) There is also no doubt that France as a whole was, at least at first, in favour of Napoleon's expansion plans. However, unlike Hitler, Napoleon was never elected by the people, though he did take advantage of a wave of popular support (this only happened because of a bloody revolution however). Therefore its a difficult one, it is not quite so easy to pin the blame on the French population at the time, but their is no doubt in my mind that they new it was happening. Willski72 ( talk) 11:49, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Very true sorry! I was just trying to tell everyone that the original comment seems to going around and i was merely trying to put it into context (the person is understandably upset). I'll try not to veer off again! Willski72 ( talk) 13:23, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Hello Benea and Willski72. I'm another descendant of a family tortured and killed by the French during their criminal invasion of Spain. I cannot express how painful is for me to read articles that glorify the figure of Napoleon. Please understand 167.206.29.162, the jews have received historical justice, and in many countries it is illegal to glorify nazism or the evil figure of Adolf Hitler. Why do we have to stand quiet when we read everywhere that Napoleon was second only to God?? ( Niaps ( talk) 15:24, 16 May 2009 (UTC))
I am English, we English had bad relations with the French for over 700 years, i understand your position and what you are trying to achieve and i perfectly agree that those killed should be mentioned. Creating articles is good (as i believe has done been done for Count Partida Defuncion Manuel Joseph Lopez de Prado) but mentioning them on talk pages meant only for improving the article itself is not how to do it. The comment about the Counts vile murder is on the Peninsular War talk page, the First French Empire talk page and the Napoleonic Wars talk page as well as this one. Start an article about the crimes committed by the French Army if you like, you are not alone after all, the French Army marched across all Europe not just Spain. But you must make sure that you have sources and that you must not be biased, no matter what other people say this is an encyclopedia! Willski72 ( talk) 17:54, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Willski72, I apologize for the inconvenience of having to repeat myself on several discussion pages. The reason is, all of these pages are showing a bised view of Napoleon, citing his many military glories, ignoring the 6.5 million victims of his tyrannic rule. I would have preferred the articles were more neutral, but that's not the case. Sorry again, and I hope you understand ( Niaps ( talk) 23:35, 16 May 2009 (UTC)).
Willski72, I understand and respect your point. Please understand my view, which I think it is equally valid. To write an article about Napoleon without mentioning his record of millions of civilians killed is as deceiptful as writing an article about Hitler hiding his part in the Holocaust. This is a well documented historical fact, and ignoring it is apology of genocide. I'm bringing neutrality to the article.
Frania W., thank you for your note. French historians have used the term genocide to describe Napoleon's war crimes ( http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/1504014/Napoleons-genocide-on-a-par-with-Hitler.html). I do not choose those categories, just report what the experts say. 15% of the population of Spain being wiped out in 4 years certainly qualifies as genocide ( Niaps ( talk) 23:15, 16 May 2009 (UTC)).
Equendil, there is plenty of research on crimes committed by Napoleon's armies. Your argument that "atrocities are commited by all sides in a war" was repelled in the Nuremberg trials. Your affirmation that it is not possible to "murder civilians" at war is absurd (why then the Hague Tribunal?). The article, as it stands, is apologetic to Napoleon's figure, superficial and chauvinist. Napoleon's crimes must be mentioned in Napoleon's article. Please DO NOT delete a complete section written by other contributor. Make the changes and suggestions you consider appropriate. Thanks. ( 69.120.8.27 ( talk) 04:28, 17 May 2009 (UTC)).
Equendil, you are French and this must be a pill hard to swallow. However, with all respects to your great Nation, 15% of Europe's population perished under Napoleon's rule. Please read the research mentioned at Napoleonic Wars casualties and revert your complete deletion of the section. ( Niaps ( talk) 05:08, 17 May 2009 (UTC))
Though i am supporting Equendil's overall position i would disagree with him on one point, at the time when the monarchies fought the wars were generally protracted but borders did not change much and so the people affected were lesser in number in Europe (atrocities did still happen though). The French Revolution and the Napoleonic Wars opened this up so that the atrocities were felt throughout Europe. In Spain there were terribly brutal atrocities on both sides as the Spanish desperately defended their home from the invader who had been told to 'live of the land' (which basically meant stealing food off everyone) and supress rebellion. To get back to Niaps point though i do understand your position. For example on the Peninsular War article it should mention that atrocities were known to have occurred (although i doubt we'll ever have accurrate numbers). On this article it could say that Napoleon's men were known to have committed crimes throughout Europe (sometimes in desperation admittedly). And on the Napoleonic Wars article it could say that protracted rebellions led atrocities being committed in Spain, Southern Italy etc. The problem is i'm not sure if there is proof that Napoleon ordered these things or whether each seperate General took it upon themselves. However it must be remembered that these articles encompass a vast amount of history and so a sentence or two is enough, not hundreds of words. If you wish to do youre families justice all i can suggest you do is set up an unbiased article on atrocities during the Napoleonic wars (which must include those committed on captured French soldiers). It is not 'genocide' but it might of been 'atrocities' or 'brutal quelling of rebellion'. Willski72 ( talk) 11:12, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I fear you may be closer to the truth than i think Equendil, if these facts are already there then there is nothing more to do. I will repeat that they should create their own article and make sure their is no bias and each sides points are put across fairly, this is an Encyclopedia after all. If the created article is not unbiased they must accept that it may be got rid of. I fully understand their emotional position on this point but they must understand that an Encyclopedia shows no emotion. There is no evidence, for example, that Napoleon himself ordered these atrocities, even if they did occurr. Willski72 ( talk) 17:52, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Well said Frania W. there is reason to believe that Niaps, Qqtacpn and 167.206.29.162 along with a few others are either the same person or working together. They have created articles which had little if any supportive fact and they are under investigation by the administrators. It seems that these comments are merely the tip of the iceberg. Willski72 ( talk) 18:20, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
I would like to remind, as a French citizen who has lived for fifteen years in Spain, that the mourning of Napoleon´s victims is the ground on which modern Spanish nationalism has been invented (They could not, at that time, agree on anything else). And we should be careful, when 167.206.29.162 is talking about "genocide" not to fall into the excesses of nationalist propaganda. Unfortunately, some extremists still capitalize on these remote wars in order to fuel an antiquated jingoism based on resentment and even hatred. Let us not forget, however, that this war was one of the first counter-insurrectional wars in modern history. That a minority of people, irresponsibly exposed civilians to the backlash of occupying troops by hiding among the population. These cowards too are celebrated as heroes. Many of them were actually priests who not only were participating to the insurrection, but who also sought to reestablish the inquisition! Therefore, how should I trust what a priest wrote in the book of the defunct? Instead of trying to "honour the dead", I think we should rather take care of our own lives. Clément, a descendant of the victims of so many wars. 24.90.250.211 ( talk) 06:36, 15 August 2009 (UTC)
I do not admire Napoléon but I have to point out that he did not commit genocide. First, I have to make it clear what I mean with “genocide” since this word has been misused many times. My definition includes the following criterion:
1. Type of atrocity. It must consist of the killing, deportation or forced
sterilization of humans. Other types of suppression is not counted.
2. Number of victims. The victims have to be at least a hundred thousand people.
3. Type of victims. The victims must be virtually defenceless, that is, always or almost always unarmed. War causalities are not counted since the targets are ether armed or supporting armed people.
4. Type of organization. The atrocities have to be committed by one government or government-like organization. Atrocities committed by several governments or similar organizations are counted as separate crimes.
5. Speed. The minimum number of victims has to be killed, deported or involuntary
sterilized within five years.
A true genocide has to meet all criteria listed. However, if the error margin allows for one of the criteria to be met it is counted as meting this criterion. Clear examples of genocide are the Nazi genocide – including the Holocaust – and the Soviet Gulag system. Other clear but not as infamous examples are the Turkish genocide on Armenians during WWI and the mass slaughter by the Khmer Rogue. On the other hand the Witch Trials where not a genocide since it failed on point 2, 4 and 5. Between 30,000 and 40,000 people where killed during the course of several centuries. Furthermore, they where killed not only by the Roman Catholic Church but mainly by several independent Protestant governments. Several claims of genocide of indigenous peoples fail on the low number of potential victims as the targeted group numbered less than a hundred thousand. Please also note that the Spanish Conquistadors did not reduce Native Americans to just a few hundred Although populations dropped drastically due to epidemics leading to the collapse of whole civilisations Native Americans still numbered in the millions. In the Andes and parts of Central America the natives still consists the majority of the population. If the Conquistadors had reduced the populations of natives to a few hundred they would not have had any peoples to rule. In reality they aimed to conquer and not exterminate. (In fact the word “conquistador” means “conqueror” in Spanish.) Anyone with any significant knowledge of world history should know that the Conquistadors succeeded in this effort.
The wish to commit genocide may be ancient but I don't think any such could have been committed until the later half of the 19th century. The necessary means most likely did not exist until at least the middle of the 19th century an possibly not until about 1900. The means includes administration, manpower and transport. The administration has to be of a relatively modern type meaning that the civil servants has to put the interests of the government before their own personal ones. The manpower consists of a sufficient number of people educated enough to carry out what I consider a crime against humanity. The transport means vehicles that can be used for mass transit such as trains, lorries and buses. During Napoléon's time the required administration may or may not have existed. However, I seriously doubt that the necessary manpower existed at the time. What I know for sure is that neither lorries nor buses where invented and that trains only existed on an experimental stage. The relatively primitive state of the medical profession also meant that forced mass sterilization was unattainable. Furthermore, Napoléon was a highly egoistic man. It may seem paradoxical but a high degree of altruism is required to commit genocide. As far as I know all genocides have been ordered in the severely mistaken belief that the society would benefit from it. There are simply no egoistic motif for ordering the death, deportation or forced sterilization of a hundred thousand people or more. However, my main argument is that Napoléon could not have committed genocide even if he had wanted.
This is not written in an effort to rehabilitate Napoléon's reputation. I consider him the first modern dictator. I think a dictator is frightening enough without having to accuse him of genocide. In this particular case the dictator in question had neither means nor motif to commit genocide. I don't think Charles Napoléon Bonaparte and his family should be proud of him. If anything I want them to dissociate themselves from Napoléon's suppression of free opinion and his incorporation of non-functional parts of democracies in his government. I am not an historian just an ordinary sceptic. But I am ready to answer all questioners except trolls.
2009-08-29 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
According to Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable (Ivor Evans, Revised Edition, 1988), Napoleon was given the nickname 'Little Corporal' after the battle of Lodi in 1796, "from his low stature, youthful age and great courage." I'm not sure if this is worth of inclusion, so I'll leave it up to the regular editors to decide whether or not to include it. It's on page 675, under the entry "Little Corporal". -- Joth ( talk) 20:38, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
This section mentions "the ideals of the revolution", but what the heck are they? This seems like a central question for nearly the whole article, without which all the mere data about his battles have no context. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Average64 ( talk • contribs) 20:50, 30 June 2009 (UTC)
Very true very true, such is the way with most revolutions as history shows plainly. But Napoleon really hammered the nail in the coffin in that they couldnt even pretend anymore.-- Willski72 ( talk) 19:33, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
Hi, Image for signature needs verifiable source e.g. book or document, thanks Tom B ( talk) 10:59, 16 July 2009 (UTC)
I refer to this section: Reign 18 May 1804 – 6 April 1814 20 March 1815 – 22 June 1815 Coronation 2 December 1804 Predecessor French Consulate Himself as First Counsel of the French First Republic.
Previous ruling Monarch was Louis XVI as King of the French (1791-1792)
"Counsel" should be corrected to "Consul" 99.157.173.9 ( talk) 16:17, 17 August 2009 (UTC)
{{editsemiprotected}}
Citation No. 99 McLynn, 1998 pp 545 the pp should be 504-505 (and not 545)
Wasn't Napoleon's original, Corsican, name Nabuileone? innotata ( Talk | Contribs) 00:34, 11 November 2009 (UTC)
To back up the above review about point 1., many of the internet inline citations used in this article are improperly formatted. Internet citations require at the very least information on the title, publisher and last access date of any webpages used. If the source is a news article then the date of publication and the author are also important. This information is useful because it allows a reader to a) rapidly identify a source's origin b) ascertain the reliability of that source and c) find other copies of the source should the website that hosts it become unavaliable for any reason. It may also in some circumstances aid in determining the existance or status of potential copyright infringments. Finally, it looks much tidier, making the article appear more professional. There are various ways in which this information can be represented in the citation, listed at length at Wikipedia:Citing sources. The simplest way of doing this is in the following format:
<ref>{{cite web|(insert URL)|title=|publisher=|work=|date=|author=|accessdate=}}</ref>
As an example:
which looks like:
If any information is unknown then simply omit it, but title, publisher and last access dates are always required. If you have any further questions please contact me and as mentioned above, more information on this issue can be found at Wikipedia:Citing sources. Regards
i didn't write above but am adding signature and date so it gets archived at some point, Tom B ( talk) 13:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
napolean bonaparte gave the thought that 'army runs with the support of stomach' with these king and government started providing army with surplus amount of food.Napolean was a great tactician with small no of soldiers he attacked large number of armies successfully.There has been discussion on napoleans sleep time.it has been believed that he just slept of 3 to 4hours of a day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mahajanpranav14 ( talk • contribs) 15:39, 4 December 2009 (UTC)
Since he is most commonly known as Napoleon Bonaparte, shouldn't that be the article name? WP:NCP suggests using the name that is most generally recognizable and unambiguous. Cheers, — sligocki ( talk) 07:25, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Sligocki, I don't think there is any formula for what name we should use. Personally, I'm of the opinion that using the Regnal names are the most appropriate, after all it would be a lie
to not awknowledge the fact that he was a monarch. —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
67.133.229.226 (
talk) 03:21, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
Re Flamarande: I agree with you that the most common name should be used, but it looks like it would be better for us to discuss this on the Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility) page. Cheers, — sligocki ( talk) 05:04, 10 January 2010 (UTC)
We don't measure people in Europe in METERS. but centimeters. So Napoleon was 170cm. Can somone fix that? 71.99.101.105 ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:31, 9 January 2010 (UTC).
You all think thats bad? I hear people speak of naught point naught five centimetres. The correct English for that is 50 µm. If you do not understand µm, you really are'nt metric. Just to show of, I am able to write µm. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.134.28.194 ( talk) 07:30, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
Emperor of the French has 2 lines in the table. Looks silly. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.148.123.17 ( talk) 08:43, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
This article should be renamed as the official title of Napoleon Bonaparte was "Napoleon I, Emperor of the French". He never was "Emperor of France". That's important because Napoleon wanted to be distinguished from the kings of France and it symbolically meant that Napoleon came from the "nation" and was not a king by divine right like the monarchs of the Ancien Régime. I propose to rename this article "Napoleon I" as there never was an other monarch called "Napoleon I". DITWIN GRIM ( talk) 14:41, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
(outdent) WP:NCROY says: "These following conventions apply to European monarchs since the fall of the Roman Empire (not, therefore, to the Byzantine Emperors), because they share much the same stock of names. This produces, for example, several kings and an emperor, all of whom are most commonly called Henry IV. We therefore call them Henry IV of England, Henry IV of France, and so on. The same holds for most kings; see also James I, Robert I, and so on." The name of the article is not meant to include the title of the monarch. It is name and number - and country when there are monarchs with the same number. As stated here: "Pre-emptively disambiguate the names of kings, queens regnant, and many emperors and empresses regnant in the format "{Monarch's first name and ordinal} of {Country}", omitting the royal or imperial titles. Examples: Edward I of England; Alfonso XII of Spain; Henry I of France. Holy Roman Emperors and German Emperors are an exception, see point 3. See point 5 for rulers below the rank of king. " Seems to me this discussion should be happening on the policy page. Policy explicitly says to omit their title. — Charles Edward ( Talk | Contribs) 20:30, 18 February 2010 (UTC)
outdent. hey guys, had been reading the discussion and wasn't going to say anything but Charles asked if i had a view. i don't mind too much about the article title though personally i think i'd prefer "Napoleon Bonaparte", - "Napoleon" might get confused with Napoleon III or dynamite! - as massively more recognisable for English speakers. but it seems there are some rather strict rules on article titles. hope all is well, Tom B ( talk) 18:52, 19 February 2010 (UTC)
We should probably seek out a kindly admin to change the name for us, since no one seems opposed to dropping the "of France". I think that addresses all the concerns about historical accuracy (by omitting the offending "of France") while still complying with policy on the naming of European royalty. The article is currently protected from earlier vandalism. I also note from the log [8] [9], that this article was once named Napoleon I, Emperor of the French, and the move to the current name was done because of the existing policy. I will see if I can find an admin who can do that. — Charles Edward ( Talk | Contribs) 00:27, 23 February 2010 (UTC)
I think we should add the name of the piece Napoleon wrote which caught Robespierre brothers' attention. I am looking for the name of that story and couldn't find it on wiki. It's suppose to be dinner at Salon or something. Can anyone add it? I am considering buying one copy maybe off ebay, so I been looking into the name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by TehElCid ( talk • contribs) 03:49, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
I don't think that Josephine was Paul Barras's mistress, as Napoleon's page said it was. --JosephineBonaparte —Preceding unsigned comment added by Josephinebonaparte ( talk • contribs) 01:21, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
It may interest people to know that there is a move discussion to bring about consistency of titles with Napoleon II and III taking place at Talk:Napoleon III of France. PatGallacher ( talk) 19:21, 31 March 2010 (UTC)
In the Early Career section, it refers to him being relocated to Constantinople, following with the info that it was renamed in 1930. But the 1930 "renaming" was more of a formality than anything else, as the Turks had been calling it Istanbul for much longer than that... Surely, Istanbul is the more proper name? Ringhloth ( talk) 17:54, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
"Wellington was never defeated in any battle, Napoleon was...". This isn't so. Wellington suffered several defeats, the most clear cut being the Siege of Burgos. These defeats were minor compared to Napoleon’s, but then Napoleon often faced far more difficult situations and more numerous foes (like at Leipzig and Waterloo). But then the Peninsular Campaign was never on the same scale as Napoleon's campaigns.
In terms of failures, the Iron Duke suffered setbacks at Redinha, El Boden and Villa Muriel. He also failed in the siege of Burgos and the 1st siege of San Sebastian. He was also strategically beaten at Quatre Bras by Ney, thus failing to aid Blucher at Ligny. He was almost defeated at Fuentes d'Onoro, probably being saved by the jealousy and lack of cooperation amongst Massena's generals. There is also debate as to whether or not he really won the Battle of Toulouse. Finally, I'm not sure if it was Wellington who manned the 2nd Siege of Badajoz, but this too ended in failure. These events are often overlooked in books on Napoleonic history. Guard Chasseur ( talk) 17:20, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
His status as a Monarch was confirmed in 1804, and then Europe was to know he was a Monarch in all and in name. When did he start to become a Monarch in all but name? I heard he was a "single-ruler" by the end of 1800. ( 85.164.223.175 ( talk) 23:34, 31 May 2010 (UTC))
{{editsemiprotected}} The following line: "Though Sieyès expected to dominate the new regime, he was outmanoeuvred by Bonaparte, who drafted the Constitution of the Year VIII and secured his own election as First Consul, and he took up residence at the Tuileries.." has an unnecessary extra period. If someone could edit this, that'd be great! 72.211.238.98 ( talk) 01:40, 2 June 2010 (UTC)
Section "Early Career" says: "gained the rank of Lieutenant Colonel and command over a battalion of volunteers" and later on "promote him to captain". This is obscure, as lieutenant colonel is higher than captain. Also, in the French version N. is "second in command in a battalion". Maybe the above sentence should be corrected to: "gained the rank of lieutenant colonel in the National Guard and command in a battalion of volunteers"? 132.66.40.82 ( talk) 09:33, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I have no sources, except the French version in the Wikipedia. But perhaps you misunderstood my comment: the text is probably correct, but imprecise and hence misleading. To make it more clear one should distinguish between ranks in the French Army and ranks in the National Guard - and then everything is OK. My above proposed correction takes this into account. 132.66.40.82 ( talk) 09:01, 13 July 2010 (UTC)
in the Criticism section : "prophecised" needs changing to "prophesied" from vb. to prophesy (as different from n. "prophecy") thanks 110.32.232.94 ( talk) 08:49, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
Can somebody give more on this issue? According to the human height article, Napoleon was only 4'11 or possibly 5'4 or 5'5 inches, I don't remember which one, but in either case well bellow the 5'7 inches given here, which in any case I rather doubt was average height in France c.1800 (in other places I've heard 5'5 or less). In other "revisionist" accounts I usually hear 5 feet 6 inches not 7, which is in fact the height given in the article sourced!! (which really makes me suspicious that something funny is going, especially since the article is in French and this may be considered a matter of national pride). I'm beginning to wonder if we don't really know much about either Napoleon's height OR average height in France at that time, since I've heard such varying accounts from all sides and even between different supposedly verified sources. In any case considering this is a very commonly referenced issue it deserves far greater detail than one article (in French and inaccurately quoted!!) referenced here and some admission that there may be uncertainty up until modern times. ( 93.65.186.151 ( talk) 18:31, 9 February 2010 (UTC))
Most people in the know, understand that he was not "short" at all, and was average height for the average European man of his generation. The height thing was blown out of proportion by mainly two reasons:
1. The victors write history.
2. It started to widely circulate a few generations later, when people were on the average taller than Napoleon's day, so they saw him as "short" in retrospect while purposely ignoring the context of time placement, since it would go against their aim of portraying him as "small." Jersey John ( talk) 08:49, 17 May 2010 (UTC) Oh and as for actual height I know not, but 4'11 is catagorically untrue, and I seem to recall hearing he was about 5'6. Jersey John ( talk) 08:49, 17 May 2010 (UTC)
Wasn't his mother an orange seller? Wasn't he brought up dirt poor? That's hardly noble. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.243.47.58 ( talk) 05:39, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
I modified the description of Corsica in the lede, because the article made it sound like Corsica was a part of France when Napoleon was born. However that only happened a year later. The distinction is relevant, since the turbulence in Corsica during Napoleon's youth probably had some effect ton him. Also just as a factual matter, Corsica simply was not part of France in 1769. Gacggt ( talk) 03:51, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
Just to anoy you all with a legal term, here it is: Sui Generis. It's something like "by actual/normal interpretation/understanding of the law". So when was it a "fait accompli" that Corsica was to be understood as being a mere part of The Kingdom of France. I have the impression that the British Government said of Corsica that the guerillas can live and let die, and no assistance was to be given. It would be strange if Britain made, and therefore knew of the Fait Accompli before even the French.-- 85.164.220.173 ( talk) 22:18, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
Napoleon Bonaparte's Albanian origin
On 1903, Adolf Thieres write: ”When Josef Bonaparti, the older brother of Napoleon Bonapartit became King of Naples on 1806, Arberesh/Albanians that went to welcome him, he told them: ”And Bonaparti family is from arberesh origin". Adolf Thieres, x-president of Franc said: Bonapart's older brother admit on 1806 , that his family was an Arberesh origin and had very close relationship to Ali Pasha Tepelena. On Bonaparti's family, profesor Robert d’Angely with origin from Corsica enlight in his book "Enigma of race of origins and languages of Pelasg,Arian,Hellen,Etruscan,Greek and Albanian". It is a book with seven volumes and with a 30 years work from this profesor. In pages 113-117 he wrote that Napoleon Bonaparti was an albanian origin, same as it was Great Alexander and Scanderbeg.It is interesting that the profesor says in his book that the old surname of Napoleon was ”Kalë-miri” ( in Albanian good-hourse) and not Kalimeros as greeks lie. Irvi Hyka--Irvi Hyka 00:16, 7 August 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Irvi Hyka talk
This will be very short and is not for the improvement of the article, but the title of the article at some point was renamed "Napoleonic" which really is vague and not the topic of the article in the first place. A hereby request renaming the article back to "Napoleon I of France" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.48.85.243 ( talk) 11:27, 19 August 2010 (UTC)
"Bonaparte was put under house arrest in August 1794 for his association with the brothers"[foot-note]
^ [foot-note] Some histories state he was imprisoned at the Fort Carré in Antibes but there does not appear to be evidence for this.[24]
^ [24] Dwyer 2008, p.155
This bothered me because there is a famous engraving by Edward_Matthew_Ward called "NAPOLEON IN THE PRISON OF NICE IN 1794" http://www.englishheritageimages.com/low.php?xp=media&xm=1716439 http://books.google.com/books?id=9HDQAAAAMAAJ&dq=napoleon%20prison%20in%201794%20nice&pg=PA771#v=onepage&q=napoleon%20prison%20in%201794%20nice&f=false
—Preceding unsigned comment added by Bokononist ( talk • contribs) 12:02, 20 August 2010 (UTC)
-- Frania W. ( talk) 01:58, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
That source is from 1900. Recent scholarship (2008) from Dwyer explicitly states that there does not appear to be any evidence he was imprisoned. Tom B ( talk) 10:39, 22 August 2010 (UTC)
I have written a summary of the current state of knowledge on Napoléon’s death. This is at translation of the whole Swedish original except for a note on who translated a quote from French to Swedish. I have just divided it into three parts. The first one goes through the evidence and debunks counter-arguments. The second one describes chronologically what happened. The third deals with the question of responsibility. It is almost too long but the purpose of the original Swedish text had two purposes. One was to explain what Napoléon died from. The other was to debunk some misconceptions on Napoléon's time on Saint Helena. I have tried to came as close as possible to what I wanted to say without violating the rules for correct English. For safety's sake it has been proof-read by the Swedish sceptic Peter Olausson.
“Napoléon was poisoned to death. There are four
evidences for this. The first is his symptoms during the five years he was ill. The least interrupted description comes from
Louis Joseph Marchand. As the leading of the three
valets he saw Napoléon almost every day. In his diary Louis wrote down what he witnessed on
Saint Helena. It was amongst other things how the ex-emperor felt and which symptoms he had. His observations are confirmed by the testimony from Napoléon's good friend
Henri Gratien Bertrand. Henri held a formal office but had no real tasks. One could well say that he got paid for keeping Napoléon company. In addition there are case records from the four
physicians which examined Napoléon:
Barry O'Meara, John Stokoe,
Francesco Antommarchi and
Archibald Arnott. The person they describe is NOT a
cancer patient. Instead they describe a person who repeatedly have been poisoned by certain substances.
The second
evidence is the state of the inner organs at the
autopsy.
Francesco was the most qualified person who was present. He found no
tumour much less the
metastases which would have been required to kill him. The assertion that he would have done so is based on a mistranslation. On the contrary his description of the inner organs matches exactly the poisoning that will be explained later. However, Francesco did not know this: he thought that Napoléon had died from
hepatitis. The necessary knowledge simply did not exist yet.
The third
evidence is the fact that the dead Napoléon did not
decompose normally. Despite that he had not been intentionally
mummified the body had barely decomposed at all in 19 years! It has been pointed out that a carcass can be preserved under certain circumstances. But those circumstances mean constant cold alternatively a very dry
climate. No-one of the circumstances reined on the site where Napoléon was buried. The body was never in contact with the earth so chemical interaction with it is eliminated. The innermost coffin was airtight and of metal. If it had been heated up over a bonfire it would had stopped the
decomposition. (The
tin was invented so they knew that it worked but not how.) However, this could not have happened without people noticing. Furthermore, the dead man would have smelled like baked meat when the coffin was opened.
The forth
evidence is the chemical analyses which have been made on hair samples from Napoléon. They have only tested samples which authenticity has been certified by those persons which originally got them from him. (It is thus not enough with hearsay.) On of them even wrote that he had taken the hair himself from the dead Napoléon's body! All the tested hair samples have the same colour and texture. It makes it likely that they came from the same person. Hair samples taken at different occasions have different
arsenic contents. But it is always considerably higher than what is normal. It has been suggested that the arsenic is a contamination as a consequence of the hair being treated with arsenic preparations. It is impossible since the content is precisely as high in the in the middle of the hairs. Furthermore, the hairs taken after his death contained two other poisons too. The last 16
millimetres contained
antimony and the last millimetre
mercury as well. The measurements have been made by several
scientists at different laboratories. Several different methods have been used. Please note that hairs do not suck up things faster than they grow. It makes it on the other hand possible to calculate exactly when the poisoning occurred.
Four of the measurements deviate from the pattern. All the four deviating results have been done with the same measurement equipment. Despite that he hair samples had been taken at different occasions they show the same
arsenic content. It was in turn two and a half times as high as the highest of the other measurements. This ought to say something about how insensitive the measurement equipment is. People which claim that those measurements are reliable also assert that it was normal at the time. It is true that it is possible to get used to arsenic. But that it should hold for a whole population of 26 million is patently absurd. Some claim that people used to utilise arsenic to wash wine barrels and wine bottles. Why would they had utilised a well-known poison for that? Furthermore, Napoléon was moderate drinker. There were thus many people which drunk more wine than him. Others assert that Napoléon fell victim to his own arsenic abuse. Arsenic can really be abused. However, no contemporary testimonies suggest that he had such an addiction. The only thing he was addicted to was
snuff. On the other hand it was the only unhealthy habit that we know he had.
That Napoléon died from
cancer was first suggested by
Charles Tristan de Montholon. It has turned out that he often lied. On
Saint Helena he lied so much that he got the nickname ‘il bugiardo’ (‘the liar’ in
Italian). Several times he asserted things that are against modern
medical knowledge. Sometimes he even contradicted himself! It has been claimed that
metastases from Napoléon are preserved at
Royal College of Surgeons' museum. On the can with alcohol is a label saying that it is a gift from
Barry O'Meara. Unfortunately the tissues in the can are
lymphatic glands not metastases. There is not even any sensible reason to think that they come from Napoléon. Barry was not present at the
autopsy since he had left the island three years earlier. If he had ever operated Napoléon we would have known it. That Napoléon's pants shrunk steadily in size has been taken as evidence that he had died from cancer. On that
toxicologist Pascal Kintz – who did some of the chemical analyses – answered:
‘You don't decide that someone is suffering from cancer by measuring the size of his trousers.’
Napoléon did really lost much in weight before he died. But this was due to severe lack of appetite not due to
cancer. Please note that stomach cancer is not hereditary. It was just supposed to be hereditary by people which had pre-scientific ideas of heredity. Many other diseases have been suggested as causes of Napoléon's death. In most cases they are based on certain symptoms not all or even most! Some are even based on symptoms which
Charles has made up!
High
arsenic contents have also been found in hair that was taken from Napoléon before 1816. Some claim that this must mean that he was not poisoned to death. They have not understood that it was a matter of sub-lethal arsenic poisoning. ‘Sub-lethal’ means potentially lethal but not necessary so. The poisoned may thus survive and recover eventually. It was what happened to Napoléon in 1805, 1812, 1813, 1814 and 1815. When he arrived to
Saint Helena he had completely recovered from the last of them. People which recover from sub-lethal poisoning shows symptoms of chronic arsenic poisoning. Persons which missed the sub-lethal attacks have suggested alternative arsenic sources. Amongst other things one has suspected the wallpaper in Napoléon's bedroom and living-room. The wallpapers where coloured with
Scheele's green. The walls where so damp that they grew mouldy and emitted vapour forms of arsenic. The problem is that the suspicious wallpapers where put up three years AFTER Napoléon fell ill. Furthermore, statistics points against a source in the environment. All in all twelve people where poisoned: six adult men, four adult women, a teenage boy and a little girl. Environmental poisoning affects children at first hand. There where at least three more children in the same house but they did not fell ill. On the other hand two of the affected women did not even live on the same address! Not counting Napoléon three persons died. It was his best friend Franceschi Cipriani, one of the women, ant the little girl. However, in Napoléon's case arsenic was not the ultimate poison as we will see.”
“When Napoléon delivered himself up to the Britons a few friends and servants voluntary followed him. Furthermore an old enemy turned up unexpected. It was
Charles who offered to follow him anywhere. We don’t know why Napoléon accepted him. It may have been because he was so eager to follow him. It may also have been the prospect of having sex with his rather lose wife
Albine Hélène. Yes, he did have sex with her! In June 1816 she had a daughter who was
christened
Hélène de Montholon. We still don’t know who her dad was.
Napoléon's employees and friends treated him as a ruling monarch as long as he lived. Britons which meet him personally spooked to him as a foreign monarch unless he had said that they did not need to. Officially he was called general Bonaparte at the beginning even
lieutenant-general Bonaparte! For a start the party was kept on board a ship that was anchored outside England's coast. For security reasons Napoléon was not allowed to get ashore. During the time the British government discussed what they would do with him. General
Arthur Wellesley (more famous as the duke of Wellington) recommended
Saint Helen. It was easy to guard and had a pleasant
climate. Arthur had visited the island himself when he was on the way home from India. That was the way it of cause got too. The party was transferred to an other ship with destination Saint Helena. 69 days later they where there. It was in October 1815. The Britons tried to make it as comfortable for Napoléon as possible. As long as it did not prevent them from guarding him, of cause. They tried to protect him at least as much as preventing attempted escape. The island was easily made escape-proof. The coasts consist of high, steep rocks. The British government kept track of everyone who went ashore or left the harbour. It was only one more place where it was considered possible to get down to the shore. Every ship who approached the place would be stopped by the British navy.
Napoléon would got to live in a mansion named
Longwood House. But it had to be renovated and extended first. It took about two months. During the time Napoléon lived in a pavilion that was situated in the garden of a rich family's house. There he lived with five male followers. He liked to ride and work in Longwood House' garden. When his legs become too weak to allow riding he instead used to ride in his carriage. Indoors he could read, dictate, play billiards, chess and card games with
Henri. Napoléon preferred outdoor activities. Had he decided to keep indoors he easily become bored.
The first quarter of 1816 Napoléon felt ill for a couple of days in the middle of each month. The followers noticed a general degeneration of his health even if he did not say anything. About the turn of the month April/May he fell ill again. He had been stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. Before he had recovered completely he was stricken one more time. So it continued year after year. No contemporary
physician could tell what Napoléon suffered from. Therefore the repeated sub-lethal poisonings could continue for years. It took until the 1950ies until someone found out what Napoléon had suffered from. It become possible through the publication of
Louis' diaries.
A little more than six weeks before Napoléon died the
arsenic was partly replaced with
antimony. Two days later
Charles offered to nurse him during the nights. It was normally Jean Abram Noverraz' job. But he had suddenly fallen ill. The antimony resulted in violent vomiting. Eventually his stomach was so overworked that he stopped to vomit.
Francesco and
Archibald begun to worry about if he would survive. Charles wrongfully asserted that a certain mercury salt (
calomel) once had saved Napoléon's life. Archibald agreed to give it a chance but not Francesco. Two other
physicians where called in so that they could discuss the issue. All except Francesco let themselves to be subdued. Napoléon was given an enormous dose of the mercury salt. Earlier the same day he had been fooled to swallow a drink that was seasoned with bitter
almonds.
Potassium cyanide from the bitter almonds reacted with the acidity of the stomach and with the mercury salt. The result was other mercury salts,
mercuric cyanide and free
mercury. As a consequence of the poisoning Napoléon now laid helpless in his bed. Within 36 hours after he had swallowed the medicine he had lost his consciousness. After a little more than 48 hours he was dead. It was in the evening the 5th of May 1821. The following day an
autopsy was performed on the dead man. Francesco had company of seven British physicians but it was he who held the scalpel. After the autopsy hair and beard-stubble was shaved off. A cast was made of the front half of the head together with parts of the neck and some of the chest. The dead man was washed and dressed. Eventually the body was laid in a coffin out of tin. The tin coffin was soldered close and placed in one of wood. It was placed in its turn in one of lead which was also soldered close. The lead coffin was placed in one more of wood. Napoléon was buried there on
Saint Helena in a place that is called Sane Valley. There the Britons had built a gave vault out of stone. When Napoléon was dead and buried the followers could return to Europe.
In 1840 king
Louis Philippe decided that Napoléon's coffin should be brought to France. A French ship was sent to
Saint Helena. Several people which had known Napoléon where present when the grave was opened. When the innermost coffin was cut open they got the surprise of their lives. The dead man was almost intact! Everyone who remembered how Napoléon had looked recognised the dead man. The body's high
arsenic content – combined with the two airtight coffins – had stopped almost all decomposition. The three innermost coffins where kept. They where placed in an additional one out of lead then in two more out of wood. (All wooden coffins where made of different woods.) Finally it was laid in a sarcophagus out of red
porphyry in
the Invalides in
Paris. There he lies buried to this day.”
“There where two persons which could had poisoned Napoléon. One was
Charles who was in charge of the wine cellar. The other was the
valet Étienne Saint-Dennis. He was nicknamed Ali. No-one of the two had any good alibi. There are no real
evidence against any of them but the indications against Charles are considerably more. Several times he said to people that a new attack was to be expected. Then he was usually right. Furthermore, he knew several months in advance which symptoms Napoléon would get. He wrote it in letters to his wife which he sent after she had left the island. In present tense he described things that had yet not occurred! 25 years later he wrote a book about his experiences on
Saint Helena. His description differs radically from the other persons'. Certain parts are so artificial that they only add to the suspicions against him. Nothing suggests that Ali knew in advance what would happen to Napoléon. He did not come with any obviously exorbitant assertions either. Something Charles did several times in his book. Ali is also less likely for an other reason. Imagine that someone has poisoned an other man to death 19 years ago. He gets an invitation to be present when the victim's grave is opened. The victim will be shown to him an several others. Would he then accept? Ali was present on Saint Helena when Napoléon's grave was opened. Charles was the only invited one who was not present despite he would have been able.
Many others have been suspected for poisoning Napoléon. Here is a list of them:
§
Hudson Lowe was
governor of
Saint Helena. He had nothing to do with what Napoléon ate and drunk. He has been unfairly blamed for something that he could neither had done nor prevented.
§
Henri and his family where the only followers which did not live in
Longwood House. (They lived in a house nearby.) It was only the last six weeks that he at all handled Napoléon's food and drink. He then helped to nurse Napoléon who had become so weak that he needed help 24 hours a day. It was always in daytime except for the last but one night. Until then Napoléon was worst in the nights when
Charles nursed him.
§
Louis seem to have been the person who most nursed Napoléon. The problem with him is that he was one of the six adult men which had been stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. An assassin who poisons himself is too clumsy to avoid detection!
§ Abram has an excellent alibi. To the day six weeks before Napoléon died he was stricken by sub-lethal
arsenic poisoning. He barely recovered in time to bid farewell to his dying ruler. By then Napoléon already laid unconscious.
§ Jean Baptiste Pierron was
Longwood House' cook. He did not know which portion would be served to who. Consequentially he could not poison Napoléon without poisoning everyone who ate with him. People which ate with Napoléon rarely fell ill. On the contrary everyone had their own whine bottle which makes the one who was in charge of the wine cellar more suspicious. Sure, Jean served the desserts. But several times Napoléon become worse without eating any dessert.
§ The four
physicians mentioned in the first paragraph have been accused for causing Napoléon's death. The problem is that Napoléon was ill even when no-one of them where there. Furthermore, he was sceptic to physicians. It was easy to count the times he swallowed any medicine at all.
Napoléon may have called
Charles ‘the most faithful of the faithful’. However, he just become fooled by an unusually ingratiating hypocrite. It was how Charles got Napoléon's trust: though his constant ingratiation. Furthermore, Napoléon lived in the illusion that loyalty could be bought. It is hard to think that Charles could had nursed Napoléon – helped him with things he in fact needed help with – without feeling some kind of sympathy. He might had thought something like ‘I have to kill him but I can't let him suffer more than necessary’.
It is entirely possible that
Charles acted on his own. In that case he was solely responsible for Napoléon's death. There is no evidence for any conspiracy. If Napoléon fell victim to any such there where two possible assignors. One was Charles' close friend and France'
crown prince
Charles Philippe de Capet. The crown prince was a well-known intriguer who advocated political assassinations. The other was Charles' adoptive dad
Charles Louis de Sémonville. We know that Charles visited him shortly before he joined Napoléon. It is also possible that both where involved. The adoptive dad would then had conveyed a commission which he had got from the crown prince. Was there an assignor Charles would not have had any choice. Had he refused he would have been killed so that he could not reveal anything. Someone else had followed Napoléon with secret commission to poison him.”
I am not an expert, just an ordinary sceptic fascinated by Napoléon. But I DO have written sources to all my claims. Questioners will be answered to the best of my physical ability.
i didn't write above but am adding signature and date so it gets archived at some point, Tom B ( talk) 13:42, 16 March 2010 (UTC)
Thank you Tom B. I wrote this text a few months ago. The original Swedish text have changed somewhat since I wrote it. I now intend to make a translation of the latest version to English and e-mail it to a Peter Olausson asking him to proof-read it. As soon as I get time and an account on a web hosting service I will upload a PDF version to the web which I can link to from then on.
2010-05-15 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
I have now e-mailed Peter Olausson who said that he did not intend to proof-read my text. I have corrected one more factual error. As soon as I get time and energy I will do my best to check for linguistic errors. This summer I will register an account on a web hosting service and upload a PDF-version as previously stated.
2010-05-21 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
It is strange how you can read about
arsenic, [Sb], [Hg], and the entertaining types of poisining. The only reason we know of these things, was the sceptisism a Swedish dentist had towards French Authorities. The French had spent 150 years advocating the Emporor was a cancer case. Why the effort to conceal the actual cause death of the Emporor.--
85.164.220.173 (
talk) 22:48, 13 August 2010 (UTC)
You have not realized that there is a large amount of evidence supporting the poisoning theory. The text I originally translated to English contains some smaller factual errors but the broad outlines are supported by so much evidence that they are unlikely to change fundamentally. There are two main arguments why Napoléon did not die from cancer. First, the professional pathologist who held the scalpel at the autopsy ( Francesco Antommarchi) did not find a single tumour. Second, his symptoms as described by several contemporary eyewitnesses does not match cancer. Sten Forshufvud was not only a dentist but also a toxicologist. I was told this by Ben Weider who knew him personally. Ben was one of the world’s leading experts on Napoléon. More than 50 years ago he already doubted on the traditional explanation for Napoléon’s death. Knowing his habits and having basic knowledge of healthcare Ben suspected that Napoléon should have remained healthy well into middle age. Sten’s hypothesis that Napoléon was poisoned to death did not arise from any vague distrust of French authorities. Instead his suspicions started when he read the diaries of Louis Joseph Marchand which was published in 1955. Louis was not only Napoléon’s personal servant but also his good friend. During the last seven years of Napoléon’s life Louis met him almost every day. Louis kept diaries intended to be read by his family during his whole time on Saint Helena. All events seem equally important when they have just happened. Combined with Louis’ high degree of honesty these made his diaries the most comprehensive description of Napoléon’s symptoms during his five years of continuous illness. Louis’ description is confirmed by the sketchier eyewitness account of Henri Gratien Bertrand as well as those of the four physicians which examined Napoléon. Gaspard Gourgaud has also contributed with his written testimony. Please note that the descriptions by all these people roughly mach. The differences are no more than can be explained by human error and errors of communication. Francesco Antommarchi’s description of the dead Napoléon’s internal organs is also important. All these contemporary eyewitness accounts have to be interpreted in the light of modern medical knowledge. Although we will never know everything medical science during the years 1955 – 1985 was far more advanced than during the first three decades of the 19th century. A retrodiagnosis made during the last 55 years would be much more accurate than a diagnosis made by Napoléon’s contemporaries. Sten did not have formal qualifications as a historian but he was supported by Ben as well as David Geoffrey Chandler. As experts on Napoléon these where also aware that when his grave on Saint Helena was opened in 1840 the dead man was intact enough to be recognisable. The most sensible explanation for this is the body’s high arsenic content combined with the two airtight metal coffins.
During the last 50 year there have also been forensic evidence in the form of chemical analyses of hair samples from Napoléon. There have been at least 16 such analyses out of which 12 support the poisoning theory. The remaining four where all made by the same team of scientists which does not seem to be familiar with testing of hair samples several generations old. If so the incredibly high arsenic measurements they reported may be due to an outside contamination which they did not know that they had to remove. Their claim of such a high arsenic content being normal at the time is patently absurd considering just how toxic this element is. Furthermore, none else have measured any content mote than 40 percent as high. My point is that the statement of Napoléon being poisoned to death is not a crackpot idea but a scientific theory. This is what I have tried to explain all the time.
2010-08-27 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
The latest version of my summary can now be found here. A few factual errors have been corrected and two more paragraphs added. The first of these describe Napoléon's financial situation on Saint Helena. He had to hold on to his money but could still live a comfortable life. The second one outlines the progression of his illness and when the different physicians were with him. The language of the translation has also been improved. There are still some aberrations from English linguistic usage. But at least the expressions should be understandable. I wanted to do this five months ago. However, there was a lot which I had to write before this. These texts took much longer to write than I imagined. Creating a website and uploading 23.9 MB of files was also much more laborious and troublesome than I imagined. (The PDF I just linked to is 94 kB.) But now I eventually got it done. From now on I can refer tom this text – or a later version of it – every time the cause of Napoléon’s death is wrongfully stated. I am absolutely not an expert but I understand enough of how real experts think to explain to others why it is in a certain way and not the other way around. Something I find very entertaining.
2010-12-29 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
Napoléon's last words are claimed to have been "France, armée, tête d'armée, Joséphine" ("France, army, head of the army, Joséphine."). Those famous last words where made up by Charles Tristan de Montholon. At the time he claimed them to have been uttered no-one else could hear any words or even recognisable languages sounds! They did hear a sound but it was more like a music instrument than a human voice. Today it is considered to have been due to gases from an over-pressurised stomach escaping trough his throat. As such there where no intention behind it. I am not sure which his real last words where but they may well have been “give me my chamber-pot”. I know that he said so several times – and barley anything else – the day before he died. By the evening he was no longer able to speak. By four a clock in the morning he had lost his consciousness. 14 hours later he was dead.
Does anyone have an idea about how the probable last words may have sounded in French? If so, feel free to tell me. But beware of Anglicisms! Please don't translate word-by-word unless it fits French linguistic usage. However, I do not claim that Napoléon spoke perfect French. This was certainly not the case due to his combination of dyslexia and having a minority language as his mother tongue. If there where any foreign influence on his last words it would have been from the Italian dialect which later defined itself as Corsican. Yes, this is the consequence of my definition of “language”.
2010-06-14 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
At the age of ten it is usually too late to change mother tongue. It is also a well known fact to experts in the field that Napoléon did not speak with any intonation which would have suggested having French as his mother tongue. For example, Ben Weider once wrote that he had “the accent of a Corsican”. Dyslexia is an inborn flaw in the language ability. It can be retroactively diagnosed by finding out what kind of spelling errors the person did. However, this must be quite hard in Napoléon’s case since his handwriting was very hard to read. I think this was due to a combination of defiance in fine motor ability (common among dyslectics) and impatience. Although dyslexia makes it harder to learn a foreign language a dyslectic may well speak a foreign language fluently. The Swedish crown princess Victoria is live evidence of this. She is diagnosed as dyslectic yet speaks English fluently. Please note that influences between languages don’t have to consist of vocabulary. The French Napoléon spoke may well have had its linguistic usage more or less influenced by the Corsican dialect of Italian. His pronunciation may also have resembled the sound system of his mother tongue more than the one used by the majority of native speakers of French. But as long as people understood him this would not have been any problem.
Napoléon’s last two days in life is described in chapter 44 of Mitchell Press Limited’s 1978 edition of “Assassination at St Helena” by Sten Forshufvud and Ben Weider. This is where I got my assert that Napoléon’s famous last where made up by Charles Tristan de Montholon. The same chapter of this book also tells that from the evening of the 3rd of May and until he become mute he said barely anything else than “give me my chamber-pot”. So these may well have been his real last words. I was curious about how they may have sounded in the original French. I just wanted to dissuade people which are too bad at French to try to translate it back. If nobody who read this has read the original eyewitness accounts, that is.
2010-08-27 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.114.151.47 ( talk) 19:16, 27 August 2010 (UTC)
Referring to the sentence: "Napoleon Bonaparte (French: Napoléon Bonaparte French pronunciation: [napoleɔ̃ bɔnɑpaʁt], Italian: Napoleone di Buonaparte; 15 August 1769 – 5 May 1821), was a military and political leader of France and Emperor of the French as Napoleon I, whose actions shaped European politics in the early 19th century."
Shouldn't it say whose actions shaped European politics in the early 18th century? Since he ruled during the early 18th century? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Faraz1993 ( talk • contribs) 01:17, 10 July 2010 (UTC)
Should the sentence say "... and Emporer of the French known as Napoleon I ..."? Lambtron ( talk) 19:53, 20 September 2010 (UTC)