This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
Many details
|
---|
W ABC Al Michaels, Hubie Brown (g1, g4) W ESPN Mike Breen, Bill Walton (g2, g3, g5)
W TNT Marv Albert, Mike Fratello, Doug Collins
E ESPN Brad Nessler, Bill Walton, Tom Tolbert (g2, g4) W TNT Marv Albert, Mike Fratello, Jeff Van Gundy
E TNT Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown, Mike Fratello (g2) W NBC Marv Albert, Doug Collins, Bill Walton (g1, g3-g7) W TNT Kevin Harlan, Danny Ainge, John Thompson (g2)
E TNT Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g2) E NBC Mike Breen, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g3-g7) W NBC Marv Albert, Doug Collins (g1, g3, g4) W TNT Kevin Harlan, Danny Ainge, John Thompson (g2)
E NBC Tom Hammond, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g3-g6) W NBC Bob Costas, Doug Collins (g1, g3-g7) W TBS Kevin Harlan, Danny Ainge, John Thompson (g2)
E TNT Kevin Harlan, Doc Rivers, Hubie Brown (g2) W NBC Bob Costas, Doug Collins
E TNT Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g2) W NBC Tom Hammond, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g1, g4) W TNT Kevin Harlan, Doc Rivers (g2, g3)
E NBC Marv Albert, Matt Guokas (g3-g5) W TNT Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g1-g3) W NBC Greg Gumbel, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g4-g6)
E TNT Verne Lundquist, Danny Ainge (g2) W NBC Greg Gumbel, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g1, g4-g7) W TNT Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g2-g3)
E NBC Marv Albert, Matt Guokas (g3-g7) W TNT Bob Neal, Doug Collins (g1-g3) W NBC Greg Gumbel, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g4-g6)
E NBC Marv Albert, Matt Guokas (g3-g7) W TNT Bob Neal, Doug Collins (g1-g3) W NBC Dick Enberg, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g4, g5)
E TNT Ron Thulin, Hubie Brown (g2) W TNT Bob Neal, Doug Collins (g1-g3) W NBC Dick Enberg, Steve Jones (g4-g7)
E NBC Marv Albert, Mike Fratello (g3-g6) W NBC Dick Enberg, Steve Jones, Magic Johnson (g1) W TNT Ron Thulin, Doug Collins (g2, g3) W NBC Dick Enberg, Steve Jones, Cotton Fitzsimmons (g4-g6)
E TNT Ron Thulin (?) , Hubie Brown (g2) W NBC Dick Enberg, Steve Jones (g1, g4-g6) W TNT Bob Neal (?) , Doug Collins (g2, g3)
E TNT Skip Caray, Doug Collins (g2) E TNT Bob Neal, ?? (g5) E CBS Verne Lundquist, Len Elmore (g6, g7) W TNT ??, ?? (g1, g3) W TNT Bob Neal, ? (g2) W CBS Verne Lundquist, Len Elmore (g4, g5) W CBS Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g6)
E TBS Skip Caray, Rick Barry (g2) E CBS Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g3, g4, g6) E TBS Skip Caray, Steve Jones (g5) W CBS Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g1) W TBS Bob Neal, Steve Jones (g2, g3) W CBS Brent Musburger, Bill Raftery (g4)
E CBS Dick Stockton, Billy Cunningham (g3, g4, g6) W TBS Bob Neal, Steve Jones (g1-g3) W CBS Brent Musburger, Tom Heinsohn (g4-g7)
E CBS Dick Stockton, Tom Heinsohn (g3, g4, g6) W CBS Dick Stockton, Tom Heinsohn (g1) W TBS Mel Proctor, Bill Russell (g2, g3) W CBS Brent Musburger, Billy Cunningham (g4)
E TBS Skip Caray, John Andariese (g2) E CBS ??,?? (g3, g4) W CBS ??,?? (g1, g3, g4) W TBS Rick Barry, Bill Russell (g2) W CBS Dick Stockton, Tom Heinsohn (g5)
E TBS Skip Caray, John Andariese (g2) E TBS ??,?? (g5) W CBS Brent Musburger, Hubie Brown (g1, g3, g4) W TBS Rick Barry, Bill Russell (g2)
E CBS Dick Stockton, Bill Russell (g3) E USA ??,?? (g4, g5) W CBS ??,?? (g1, g2, g4, g5) W CBS Brent Musburger, Kevin Loughery (g3, g6)
E ESPN ??,?? (g2) E USA ??,?? (g5) W CBS Brent Musburger, Kevin Loughery (g1-g4) W CBS ??,?? (g5) W CBS Dick Stockton, Bill Russell (g6)
W CBS
W CBS Gary Bender, Rick Barry, Bill Russell (g5)
W CBS
W CBS Brent Musburger, Rick Barry, (g7)
W CBS
W CBS Brent Musburger, Rick Barry, Mendy Rudolph (g2, g4)
W CBS Don Criqui, Jerry West (g4, g7)
W CBS Brent Musburger, Oscar Robertson (g7) |
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/sportscasting_history/
— TMC1982, 2:14, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps we could include, for each table, which teams had home court, which teams were division leaders, and which teams were conference leaders at season's end.
DaDoc540 00:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
The page shouldn't have been moved, without benefit of an RM. Recommend it be restored to NBA Conference Finals & then open an RM. GoodDay ( talk) 17:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
NBA Conference Finals be
renamed and moved to
NBA conference finals.
result: Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
NBA Conference Finals → NBA conference finals – Per MOS:CAPS, WP:NCCAPS, etc.; the only part of this that's consistently capped in sources, in sentence context, is the acronym NBA. "NBA Conference Finals", "NBA Conference Final", "NBA Conference", "Conference Finals", and plain "Conference" are not proper names, and are not close to consistently capped in sources. See discussion in section above. Dicklyon ( talk) 16:43, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
A reader seeing NBA conference does not apply a different meaning to it than when they see NBA Conference. It's purely a description in basic English, not any sort of proper noun like Super Bowl (vs a plain super bowl). — Bagumba ( talk) 05:49, 21 January 2024 (UTC)a noun...that is arbitrarily used to denote a particular person, place, or thing without regard to any descriptive meaning the word or phrase may have, as Lincoln, Beth, Pittsburgh. [2]
Oppose per discussion...: Which discussion are you referring to? — Bagumba ( talk) 06:55, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
"NBA Conference" is not even a proper noun as it's notWikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization...Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia.
Also, the basic English description "NBA conference" has the same semantic meaning as "NBA Conference", as opposed to " Super Bowl" vs. "super bowl" or " White House" vs. "white house". Thus capitalization is neither necessary for understanding nor seen consistently in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources. Some !voters are mistaking the generic description "NBA conference finals" with the specific "Western Conference f/Finals" (of the NBA's Western Conference) or "Eastern Conference f/Finals" (of the NBA's Eastern Conference).— Bagumba ( talk) 08:45, 24 January 2024 (UTC)a noun...that is arbitrarily used to denote a particular person, place, or thing without regard to any descriptive meaning the word or phrase may have, as Lincoln, Beth, Pittsburgh ( per Collins).
Anyone else who finds evidence in sources, please link it here. Dicklyon ( talk) 17:00, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
Should I continue? P.S. I the "f" is shown to be mostly lowercased. Conyo14 ( talk) 18:10, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
Taken in the order Conyo14 gave them in his "uppercase" section: Lowercase throughout (Eastern Conf. & W. Conf. capitalized). Title-case TV listings in which every word of everything is uppercase. Capitalized in headline; not found in body text (EC & WC capitalized). Actually capitalized in text. Lowercased in text (uppercased in title, EC & WC capitalized). Actually capitalized in text, in that article, but elsewhere on same site, lower- and uppercase mixed in same page ( [44] [45] [46]). Capitalized in headline; does not appear in body; EC/WC capped; unreliable source for English. Capitalized in headline; does not appear in body; EC/WC capped; unreliable source for American English and American sports]. Actually capitalized in text. Capitalized in text, but unereliable source for American English and American sports. Mixed case in the same article, not consitent uppercase (EC/WC capped). Capitalized in headline, not body; EC/EW capped; unreliable source for Am. Eng. & sports. Capitalized in text, but another source not reliable for Am. Eng. & sports. Actually capitalized in the body. Mixed case in the same article, not consitent uppercase (EC/WC capped); but unreliable WP:UGC site anyway. Not an article, and shows only headlines; another article at same site, though, does capitalize in text; however, other materials by the same publisher do not ( [47] [48] [49] [50], etc. - not cherry picked, just the first 5 search results [51]); often capitalizes EC/WC but not always [52]. Not verifiable; UK site "unavailable in your region"; not a reliable source for Am. Eng./sports. Capitalized in headline & headings, not body text; found articles there with lowercase in body text, lowercase in headline, and mixed usage in body; EC/WC capped often but not always; very unlikely to be RS anyway: "a Sports fan web site and is in no way affiliated with any media organization, any professional sports league, team, organization, or its Properties", and knows not what to capitalize at all. Does capitalize in body text – but just in that article; uses lowercase in body and headline ( [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] – didn't find another case of them capitalizing it); caps EC/WC. Finally, failed verification yet again: Lowercase and in the full form "National Basketball Association finals" (also uses "NBA draft" later in same page; something that will likely be relevant later). BTW, of the sources that capitalized Eastern/Western Conference, only about half capitalized "final[s]" after it. Several also lowercased plural "Eastern and Western conferences", the way would be "Harvard and Oxford universities".
I checked, individually and in order, every source for which "uppercase" was claimed (other than the irrelevant region-blocked one), including the paywalled Newspapers.com stuff (via TWL). Only a very small number of Conyo14's claims about these sources were correct, but often for publications of no relevance to or reliability for American English and sports. Lowercase in running text clearly predominated in this source material he put in the uppercase box for some reason. I have to point out here, as I did at a thread very similar to this, that verifying claims about sources is what we do all day around here. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 09:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
@ Randy Kryn: To respond to your strange !vote and alternative name suggestion: A) You know as well as anyone else here that a common noun used inside a proper name is not capitalized outside of it (e.g. "Harvard University and Oxford University have very different university policies on harassment", not "...University policies..."). B) And that such a noun when used in the generic with regard to multiple entities will usually take singular form when converted to an adjective (e.g. "Manchester Football Club and Chelsea Football Club have distinct club uniforms" not "...clubs uniforms"), and in this particular case is never written as "NBA conferences finals". The current name is not broken (other than being over-capitalized). C) You can also find out in a matter of seconds that "NBA Western Conference and Eastern Conference Finals" is almost unattested anywhere [61], much less in reliable sources, where it is totally unattested [62] [63]). So, while the present title is also a WP:NDESC not a proper name, your long one fails WP:CONCISE. An argument could be made to split the two finals into separate articles, but that would be a very different kind of discussion. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 20:08, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia.— SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 20:08, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated List-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
Many details
|
---|
W ABC Al Michaels, Hubie Brown (g1, g4) W ESPN Mike Breen, Bill Walton (g2, g3, g5)
W TNT Marv Albert, Mike Fratello, Doug Collins
E ESPN Brad Nessler, Bill Walton, Tom Tolbert (g2, g4) W TNT Marv Albert, Mike Fratello, Jeff Van Gundy
E TNT Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown, Mike Fratello (g2) W NBC Marv Albert, Doug Collins, Bill Walton (g1, g3-g7) W TNT Kevin Harlan, Danny Ainge, John Thompson (g2)
E TNT Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g2) E NBC Mike Breen, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g3-g7) W NBC Marv Albert, Doug Collins (g1, g3, g4) W TNT Kevin Harlan, Danny Ainge, John Thompson (g2)
E NBC Tom Hammond, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g3-g6) W NBC Bob Costas, Doug Collins (g1, g3-g7) W TBS Kevin Harlan, Danny Ainge, John Thompson (g2)
E TNT Kevin Harlan, Doc Rivers, Hubie Brown (g2) W NBC Bob Costas, Doug Collins
E TNT Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g2) W NBC Tom Hammond, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g1, g4) W TNT Kevin Harlan, Doc Rivers (g2, g3)
E NBC Marv Albert, Matt Guokas (g3-g5) W TNT Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g1-g3) W NBC Greg Gumbel, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g4-g6)
E TNT Verne Lundquist, Danny Ainge (g2) W NBC Greg Gumbel, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g1, g4-g7) W TNT Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g2-g3)
E NBC Marv Albert, Matt Guokas (g3-g7) W TNT Bob Neal, Doug Collins (g1-g3) W NBC Greg Gumbel, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g4-g6)
E NBC Marv Albert, Matt Guokas (g3-g7) W TNT Bob Neal, Doug Collins (g1-g3) W NBC Dick Enberg, Steve Jones, Bill Walton (g4, g5)
E TNT Ron Thulin, Hubie Brown (g2) W TNT Bob Neal, Doug Collins (g1-g3) W NBC Dick Enberg, Steve Jones (g4-g7)
E NBC Marv Albert, Mike Fratello (g3-g6) W NBC Dick Enberg, Steve Jones, Magic Johnson (g1) W TNT Ron Thulin, Doug Collins (g2, g3) W NBC Dick Enberg, Steve Jones, Cotton Fitzsimmons (g4-g6)
E TNT Ron Thulin (?) , Hubie Brown (g2) W NBC Dick Enberg, Steve Jones (g1, g4-g6) W TNT Bob Neal (?) , Doug Collins (g2, g3)
E TNT Skip Caray, Doug Collins (g2) E TNT Bob Neal, ?? (g5) E CBS Verne Lundquist, Len Elmore (g6, g7) W TNT ??, ?? (g1, g3) W TNT Bob Neal, ? (g2) W CBS Verne Lundquist, Len Elmore (g4, g5) W CBS Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g6)
E TBS Skip Caray, Rick Barry (g2) E CBS Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g3, g4, g6) E TBS Skip Caray, Steve Jones (g5) W CBS Dick Stockton, Hubie Brown (g1) W TBS Bob Neal, Steve Jones (g2, g3) W CBS Brent Musburger, Bill Raftery (g4)
E CBS Dick Stockton, Billy Cunningham (g3, g4, g6) W TBS Bob Neal, Steve Jones (g1-g3) W CBS Brent Musburger, Tom Heinsohn (g4-g7)
E CBS Dick Stockton, Tom Heinsohn (g3, g4, g6) W CBS Dick Stockton, Tom Heinsohn (g1) W TBS Mel Proctor, Bill Russell (g2, g3) W CBS Brent Musburger, Billy Cunningham (g4)
E TBS Skip Caray, John Andariese (g2) E CBS ??,?? (g3, g4) W CBS ??,?? (g1, g3, g4) W TBS Rick Barry, Bill Russell (g2) W CBS Dick Stockton, Tom Heinsohn (g5)
E TBS Skip Caray, John Andariese (g2) E TBS ??,?? (g5) W CBS Brent Musburger, Hubie Brown (g1, g3, g4) W TBS Rick Barry, Bill Russell (g2)
E CBS Dick Stockton, Bill Russell (g3) E USA ??,?? (g4, g5) W CBS ??,?? (g1, g2, g4, g5) W CBS Brent Musburger, Kevin Loughery (g3, g6)
E ESPN ??,?? (g2) E USA ??,?? (g5) W CBS Brent Musburger, Kevin Loughery (g1-g4) W CBS ??,?? (g5) W CBS Dick Stockton, Bill Russell (g6)
W CBS
W CBS Gary Bender, Rick Barry, Bill Russell (g5)
W CBS
W CBS Brent Musburger, Rick Barry, (g7)
W CBS
W CBS Brent Musburger, Rick Barry, Mendy Rudolph (g2, g4)
W CBS Don Criqui, Jerry West (g4, g7)
W CBS Brent Musburger, Oscar Robertson (g7) |
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/sportscasting_history/
— TMC1982, 2:14, 27 April 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps we could include, for each table, which teams had home court, which teams were division leaders, and which teams were conference leaders at season's end.
DaDoc540 00:11, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
The page shouldn't have been moved, without benefit of an RM. Recommend it be restored to NBA Conference Finals & then open an RM. GoodDay ( talk) 17:35, 15 January 2024 (UTC)
It was proposed in this section that
NBA Conference Finals be
renamed and moved to
NBA conference finals.
result: Move logs:
source title ·
target title
This is template {{
subst:Requested move/end}} |
NBA Conference Finals → NBA conference finals – Per MOS:CAPS, WP:NCCAPS, etc.; the only part of this that's consistently capped in sources, in sentence context, is the acronym NBA. "NBA Conference Finals", "NBA Conference Final", "NBA Conference", "Conference Finals", and plain "Conference" are not proper names, and are not close to consistently capped in sources. See discussion in section above. Dicklyon ( talk) 16:43, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
A reader seeing NBA conference does not apply a different meaning to it than when they see NBA Conference. It's purely a description in basic English, not any sort of proper noun like Super Bowl (vs a plain super bowl). — Bagumba ( talk) 05:49, 21 January 2024 (UTC)a noun...that is arbitrarily used to denote a particular person, place, or thing without regard to any descriptive meaning the word or phrase may have, as Lincoln, Beth, Pittsburgh. [2]
Oppose per discussion...: Which discussion are you referring to? — Bagumba ( talk) 06:55, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
"NBA Conference" is not even a proper noun as it's notWikipedia avoids unnecessary capitalization...Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia.
Also, the basic English description "NBA conference" has the same semantic meaning as "NBA Conference", as opposed to " Super Bowl" vs. "super bowl" or " White House" vs. "white house". Thus capitalization is neither necessary for understanding nor seen consistently in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources. Some !voters are mistaking the generic description "NBA conference finals" with the specific "Western Conference f/Finals" (of the NBA's Western Conference) or "Eastern Conference f/Finals" (of the NBA's Eastern Conference).— Bagumba ( talk) 08:45, 24 January 2024 (UTC)a noun...that is arbitrarily used to denote a particular person, place, or thing without regard to any descriptive meaning the word or phrase may have, as Lincoln, Beth, Pittsburgh ( per Collins).
Anyone else who finds evidence in sources, please link it here. Dicklyon ( talk) 17:00, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
Should I continue? P.S. I the "f" is shown to be mostly lowercased. Conyo14 ( talk) 18:10, 20 January 2024 (UTC)
Taken in the order Conyo14 gave them in his "uppercase" section: Lowercase throughout (Eastern Conf. & W. Conf. capitalized). Title-case TV listings in which every word of everything is uppercase. Capitalized in headline; not found in body text (EC & WC capitalized). Actually capitalized in text. Lowercased in text (uppercased in title, EC & WC capitalized). Actually capitalized in text, in that article, but elsewhere on same site, lower- and uppercase mixed in same page ( [44] [45] [46]). Capitalized in headline; does not appear in body; EC/WC capped; unreliable source for English. Capitalized in headline; does not appear in body; EC/WC capped; unreliable source for American English and American sports]. Actually capitalized in text. Capitalized in text, but unereliable source for American English and American sports. Mixed case in the same article, not consitent uppercase (EC/WC capped). Capitalized in headline, not body; EC/EW capped; unreliable source for Am. Eng. & sports. Capitalized in text, but another source not reliable for Am. Eng. & sports. Actually capitalized in the body. Mixed case in the same article, not consitent uppercase (EC/WC capped); but unreliable WP:UGC site anyway. Not an article, and shows only headlines; another article at same site, though, does capitalize in text; however, other materials by the same publisher do not ( [47] [48] [49] [50], etc. - not cherry picked, just the first 5 search results [51]); often capitalizes EC/WC but not always [52]. Not verifiable; UK site "unavailable in your region"; not a reliable source for Am. Eng./sports. Capitalized in headline & headings, not body text; found articles there with lowercase in body text, lowercase in headline, and mixed usage in body; EC/WC capped often but not always; very unlikely to be RS anyway: "a Sports fan web site and is in no way affiliated with any media organization, any professional sports league, team, organization, or its Properties", and knows not what to capitalize at all. Does capitalize in body text – but just in that article; uses lowercase in body and headline ( [53] [54] [55] [56] [57] [58] [59] – didn't find another case of them capitalizing it); caps EC/WC. Finally, failed verification yet again: Lowercase and in the full form "National Basketball Association finals" (also uses "NBA draft" later in same page; something that will likely be relevant later). BTW, of the sources that capitalized Eastern/Western Conference, only about half capitalized "final[s]" after it. Several also lowercased plural "Eastern and Western conferences", the way would be "Harvard and Oxford universities".
I checked, individually and in order, every source for which "uppercase" was claimed (other than the irrelevant region-blocked one), including the paywalled Newspapers.com stuff (via TWL). Only a very small number of Conyo14's claims about these sources were correct, but often for publications of no relevance to or reliability for American English and sports. Lowercase in running text clearly predominated in this source material he put in the uppercase box for some reason. I have to point out here, as I did at a thread very similar to this, that verifying claims about sources is what we do all day around here. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 09:41, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
@ Randy Kryn: To respond to your strange !vote and alternative name suggestion: A) You know as well as anyone else here that a common noun used inside a proper name is not capitalized outside of it (e.g. "Harvard University and Oxford University have very different university policies on harassment", not "...University policies..."). B) And that such a noun when used in the generic with regard to multiple entities will usually take singular form when converted to an adjective (e.g. "Manchester Football Club and Chelsea Football Club have distinct club uniforms" not "...clubs uniforms"), and in this particular case is never written as "NBA conferences finals". The current name is not broken (other than being over-capitalized). C) You can also find out in a matter of seconds that "NBA Western Conference and Eastern Conference Finals" is almost unattested anywhere [61], much less in reliable sources, where it is totally unattested [62] [63]). So, while the present title is also a WP:NDESC not a proper name, your long one fails WP:CONCISE. An argument could be made to split the two finals into separate articles, but that would be a very different kind of discussion. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 20:08, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
Wikipedia relies on sources to determine what is conventionally capitalized; only words and phrases that are consistently capitalized in a substantial majority of independent, reliable sources are capitalized in Wikipedia.— SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 20:08, 23 January 2024 (UTC)