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Since it Montenegro has become a new nation, some changes must be done to the article. We need to address curency, GDP economy, and military changes in organization and what not.
Also there needs to be a good time table of events like admitance into the UN, WTO, maybe EU and such
I doubt Germany and the EU formally allow Montenegro to use Euro as an official curency
The ECB is neutral on the issue of other countries using the Euro, so that is not an issue. OTOH, that is not an accepted path to joining the Eurozone.
Although Montenegro have not fullfilled the so-called "Maastricht criteria" required for entering in euro-zone, the EU allowed the usage of euro because Montenegrin economy is so small it can not affect so much bigger European economy
Some Montenegrins have in recent years shown a desire to separate Montenegro from the federation with jist of the separatist movement being among the Slavic Muslim and Albanian minorities who make up some 20% of the population -- what does this sentence mean? -- Zoe
Montenegrin Orthodox Church is not recognised by any other orthodox church. However, the USA likes these little games of making new cultures and dividing nations so what can one expect.
The main church is the Serb Orthodox Church, though there is also a splinter Montenegrin Orthodox Church established in 1993. The faithful reportedly remain close to the Serb Orthodox Church regardless of the new church as can be witnessed by the attendance of sermons and booming monastic life at the Serb church none of which the other side can boast of.
This seemed rather biased toward one church, especially the second sentence. I'll strike it and revise the first part to try for a more NPOV.
The article states that "Montenegrins are mostly Eastern Orthodox Christians. The two major branches are the Serb Orthodox Church and the Montenegrin Orthodox Church, which was re-established in 1993.". MOC is not a major branch of Eastern Orthodoxy, nor was it re-established in 1993. Nikola 12:36, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The previous comment of the article states that MOC was not re-established in 1993, which is a fallacy. The MOC has been legally registered in Montenegro in line with the valid legal system of the state of Montenegro and in line with the laws in Montenegro - which is clearly apparent from the MOC page on Wikipedia. The MOC Church is called the Montenegrin Orthodox Church in its formal registration in Montenegro, so there is no space for speculation here. The Church was re-established after a separate existence until 1920 and a ban by the Serbian (then Yugoslav) autocratic King Aleksandar. The article does not claim that MOC is a major branch of Eastern Orthodoxy outside Montenegro.
The statement "over 74% of Montenegrins are Eastern Orthodox Christians, most of whom belong to the Serb Orthodox Church" is anyway a fallacy, as there is no accurate census that can prove this. One may say truthfully say that "most Montenegrins are Eastern Orthodox Christians, most of whom belong to the Serb Orthodox Church", but a large number of Montenegrins are atheists, agnostics, or otherwise, myself included. Being a Montenegrin does not mean that you are part of the 74% of Eastern Orthodox Christians. Sorry, this is the 21st century.
You can not just delete the fact that MOC followers claim that "all of the existing churches in Montenegro were once part of an autonomous Montenegrin Orthodox Church that was abolished following the union with Serbia in 1918." This is the explanation why shrines are not being built en masse in Montenegro by the MOC, as it claims to inherit the churches currently in the hands of SOC. If we put only one viewpoint in "its following is small to the point of non-existence and it has not been recognised by any other Orthodox Church" it is not balanced. Also, the statement "its following is small to the point of non-existence" needs to be based on fact not fancy. Do you have an official census of followers or is this your speculation? - user 20:28, 04 Oct 2005 (UTC).
What does the statement that the Montenegrin Orthodox Church isn't "recognised" mean? Who needs to recognise it? Several national Orthodox churches accept and cooperate with it: Bulgarian, Macedonian, Romanian, Italian, to name a few. Momisan 11:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Anybody has ANY idea why is the international name of Montenegro in Spanish? I haven't been able to find this peace of information. Thnx. -- Marianocecowski 13:29, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Monte Negro/Montenegro is Veneto, a dialect(?) of Italian which is the word most of the world uses today when referring to Crna Gora - Black Mountain - MonteNegro. Some nations do not use Montenegro but translate literally Black Mountain: Slavs (Cerna Gora, several variations), Greeks (Mavrovunion), Albanians (Mal i Zi) and Turks (Karadag).
- What puzzles me is why would these countries copy one another because it would be a big coincidence if all of them, seeing for themselves, call the country "Black Mountain". And why don't we have the name that the aboriginals called their land since Slavs arrived there after antiquity. Thus Cerna Gora can't be a possible candidate. Thus I think it either comes from Albanian "Mali i Zi" or Greek "Mavrounion". - user
- Spanish kingdom of Aragon ruled the mediterraean seas during the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries, having even territories in Sicily, Southern part of Italy, Crete, Sardinia and some greek territory... The name should come from that period.
In any case:
No! This name (Montenegro) has no direct connection to Spanish origin at all. It is Venetian dialect a bit different from official Italian! In Florentine dialect of Italian (became official language in Italy), it is Montenero, but Venice has been for a long period adjacent to Montenegro and they influenced its international name. It is not just Ivory Coast that is called this way. USA is also mostly translated in the most of the Languages. Name of romanic France originates from germanic people of Franks and is broadly accepted as international name.
On the other side, Germany is called totally differently in different languages (e.g. Deutschland, Alemania, Tedesca, Njemacka etc.). That are totaly different meanings (e.g. slavic Njemacka/Nemcia means "dumb country", originating from the fact that German language was unintelligible to adjacent Slavs at that time!).
Hi every body. About the dicussion on to the "spanish or not origin of the name MONTENEGRO only a date for your reference : I am spanish ( as you know... from my English) I was really socked when a ear a song in the montenegrin language about its country. They call them, in the song: MONTENEGRO with a perfect Spanish pronuntation!!!. Really I found those articles looking for the reason about. So them no way to the thesys of traslation. The USA people, sure that the USA citizen never use in a song "Los Estados Unidos de America" like that, in spanih. Best regards friend
Dears,
I'd like to report that the figures shown in these pages are somewhat different from point to point. As for total population there are two different (but not so much) figures and the same holds for ethnic minorities' percentages. Albanians are reported to be the 5% (main page)and 7% (link to demographic history) of total pop.
Thanks,
Eniel
The article states that "Montenegrin and Serb identities are not exclusive", but this is not true. They are exlusive acording to the constitution of Montenegro, the constitutional charter of Serbia and Montenegro, and half a dozen separate censuses since the mid 20th century - all of which allow only one national identity to be declared.
Nor has there been any attempt to invalidate the census in front of the Montenegrin courts. So, the sentence "Montenegrin and Serb identities are not exclusive", is a fallacy and not simply true according to the latest census and the rights of ethnic groups as specified in the constitution.
These are the raw and unbiased facts (not speculation). On the other hand, it is true that a number of Serbs and Montenegrins may believe that they have both identities - but there is no modern census nor constitutional basis that can support a statement such as "Montenegrin and Serb identities are not exclusive". Many Montenegrins do not feel to be Serb, and never pronounce themselves as such. You can not force national groups to "be Serb" if they do not feel so and never declare as such.
"However the number of Montenegrins does seem to be in steep decline since the introduction of the category by the Communists on the 1948 census" seems to imply that the Communist regime declared the nationality of citizens in polls. This is not true, as citizens declared their nationaility in polls, individually.
In fact, the Communists - for the first time allowed citizens to declare their nationality as Montenegrin - by introducing the category, which is more important. If it stands like the previous user wants it to stand, then we must add a sentence stipulating that the "Serbian ruling dynasties in the pre World War II Yugoslavia banned Montenegrin citizens from declaring their nationality as 'Montenegrin'" This is as true as the Communist quirp, as the Montenegrin option was obviously not allowed before World War II.
The sentence "The validity of the referendum was not confirmed by international observers as the allegedly free and democratic vote, in fact took place during wartime in the former Yugoslavia." is true. So I leave it. Of course, I agree to change "international" into "OSCE, EU and US" - as the referendum may have had international monitoring from Cuba, Iraq, North Korea, Byelorussia, and Russia. - user 20:28, 04 Oct 2005 (UTC).
Note that recent edit by 70.131.167.113 is copyvio of [2]. Nikola 13:26, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
The statement that all Albanians living in Montenegro are muslims is false. In fact, most of them are Roman Catholics. Only Ulcinj has a significant number of ALbanian muslims. PLease correct this. Momisan 11:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Does the statement that the Croats living the Bay of Kotor are autochtonous mean that the other inhabitans of the Bay are not? To remind you, today's Montenegro was first inhabited by Slavs in the sixth century. The Croats reached the Adriatic a century or two later. Momisan 11:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
The introductory paragraph says:
"Democratic" I suppose refers to the form of government; I think it would be better to be more precise, e.g. a parliamentary democracy. "Social" is unclear. Does this mean that it is currently governed by a party that calls itself "socialist"? Does it mean that it has social programs? And what does "ecological" mean here? That is a mystery. -- Macrakis 19:32, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
For "democratic" you are right. "Social" means that it has social programs and take care about the citizens that are not able to take care to about themselves. "Ecological" means that its environment is quite preserved and that its regulation protects such environment from future damages.
'La France est une république indivisible, laïque, démocratique et sociale.' (Article 1 of the French Constitution), so there is a well-known precedent for 'social' at least. [4] The planned European Constitution (now on a back burner) also talks about a social-market economy. This is quite a common concept in continental Europe. Maybe all that's needed is to make clear that this definition comes from the Constitution. Will peters
I know Serbia and Montenegro is currenct SCG...but is there an existing or planned code for Montenegro? Would it be CGR..? Or is this just idle speculation? doktorb | words 17:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
There is a vote on Wikipedia to see whether Wikipedians believe Montenegro should be independent or not. The vote can be accessed at Wikipedian Vote for Montenegrin Independence.
there's something wrong with the statistics. Aren't bosniaks the same as muslims ? --- User:Unixer 07:31, 30 March 2006
They are same peoples, Bosniaks=muslims this is political decision of they leaders, everithing is funny and complicate
Hello! Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring – and with the hope of resolving this issue – you might be interested in a poll currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article. Please weigh in! Bitola | talk | 01:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Should the Montenegrin naming be used in the pretext? The language isn't internationally recognized as a distinct from the Serbian language. If we name it, we should also name Croatian, Bosnian and Albanian. -- HolyRomanEmperor 21:18, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
This is ridiculous, there is no "Montenegrin language"!!! The only difference between the language in the Republic of Serbia and Montenegro is the dialect which involvs changing e's to ij's (i.e. lepo becomes lijepo). This is the Ijekavian dialect. Same dialect used in most of Croatia. Montenegrin independence is a difference in political identity not cultural. There never was a Montenegrin identity independent of the Serbian identity. One could argue along the same lines as was done for Montenegro that the people of Sumadija or the Serbs of Bosnia are an independent people. back onto the language issue. To proclaim Montenegrin as an independent language would be the same as calling for the language of Austria to be changed to Austrian rather than German. Or to have the language of the USA changed to American rather than English. Political separation among an ethnic group is not basis for creating artificial languages and forced cultural identification as the separtist government in Montenegro has attempted to accomplish and the USA is accepting so enthusiastically. Seriously, why not changed the official language of Austria to Austrian. Considering that they have never been part of the German nation (excluding Nazi occupation during the second World War) and that they in fact were always a fully independent nation long before the formation of a unified Germany. If "Montenegrin" can be so easily self-proclaimed as a language why not do the same with the "American" and "Austrian" as they have far greater merits for creation than "Montenegrin". Montenegro is culturally a part of Serbia. - Milos Pantelic. Podgorica, Montenegro.
Eh, no it didn't. The end.-- estavisti 10:22, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Wat are you doing hier serbian, albanian, ... language. Wer is Montenegrin language!!!!!. watr are you maken her. Do you want to asimilet the Montenegrin language!!!-- Hipi Zhdripi 02:01, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
The Government of Montenegro's official website at http://www.gom.cg.yu/eng/ now describes the local language as Crnogorski, which translates as Montenegrin in English Skinsmoke 00:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Cyrillic is an official alphabet (the referendum 2006 question is in cyrillic) and more than 60% declared they speak Serbian in teh census). -- Pockey 17:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
No argumet!!! please dont inteprete the documents
Sombody have putit this Kosovo place in Serbia stub or category or template here with out argumet. We dont have a argumet that Kosovo is part of S/M. We have tha Constitution of this countrie but we have the rez. 1244 wich is more importen for the Wikipedia and is saying that Kosovo it is a part of Yougoslavia and is prototoriat of UN. Till we dont have a clearly argument from UN, aricel about Kosovo must be out of this stub or category or template. Pleas dont make the discution with intepretation or the Law wich are not accordin to 1244. Everybodoy can do that but that is nothing for Wikipedia.-- Hipi Zhdripi 06:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
This is ridiculous, there is no "Montenegrin language"!!! The only difference between the language in the Republic of Serbia and Montenegro is the dialect which involvs changing e's to ij's (i.e. lepo becomes lijepo). This is the Ijekavian dialect. Same dialect used in most of Croatia. Montenegrin independence is a difference in political identity not cultural. There never was a Montenegrin identity independent of the Serbian identity. One could argue along the same lines as was done for Montenegro that the people of Sumadija or the Serbs of Bosnia are an independent people. back onto the language issue. To proclaim Montenegrin as an independent language would be the same as calling for the language of Austria to be changed to Austrian rather than German. Or to have the language of the USA changed to American rather than English. Political separation among an ethnic group is not basis for creating artificial languages and forced cultural identification as the separtist government in Montenegro has attempted to accomplish and the USA is accepting so enthusiastically. Seriously, why not changed the official language of Austria to Austrian. Considering that they have never been part of the German nation (excluding Nazi occupation during the second World War) and that they in fact were always a fully independent nation long before the formation of a unified Germany. If "Montenegrin" can be so easily self-proclaimed as a language why not do the same with the "American" and "Austrian" as they have far greater merits for creation than "Montenegrin". Montenegro is culturally a part of Serbia. - Milos Pantelic. Podgorica, Montenegro.
How would you pronounce it in English? Crena Gora?
Petrovic-Njegos 13:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
It's pronounced tsr-na-go-ra. No duh. CrnaGora ( Talk/ Contribs/ E-mail/ Edit Count) 21:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
-- Greasysteve13 09:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
yes, it is! "Greater Serbia" is falling apart! Kosovo is next
Montenegro is FINALLY FREE AND INDEPENDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Crna Gora je KONAČNO SLOBODNA I NEZAVISNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CrnaGora ( Talk/ Contribs/ E-mail/ Edit Count) 21:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
I hate to break it to you pal, but Montenegro is now practically an Independent state. Everything you mentioned earlier is a formality.Any attempt by Serbia to delay the Independence of Montenegro will be neutralized swiftly. Congratulation to all those who voted to free Montenegro from the chains it has been living with. Ferick 21:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
(off-topic and offensive comments removed by Mark 23:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC))
Hey now, this page is for the discussion of the Montenegro article, not the referendum (at least not outside of the context of the article), and particularly not for offensive comments. That said I'm pretty impressed by how quickly the article's being updated and I eagerly await its reaching of the quality expected of country articles. PoptartKing 23:31, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Referenda don't cause countries to become independent: actions of their governments do. So can someone please remove the date of independence from the country's infobox? It's not independent yet. By the sounds of things, the official results of the referendum have not even been officially announced. I love having articles updated very quickly, but not pre-emptively. - Mark 23:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, Montenegro is not yet independent, but this article assumes that that is the case. 68.147.71.92 00:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
НАЖАЛОСТ,МОРАМ ДА ВАМ ПОКВАРИМ СЛАВЉЕ ,ПОСЛЕДЊИ РЕЗЛТАТИ КАЖУ 54-46!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ЦРНА ГОРА И СРБИЈА ТО ЈЕ ЈЕДНА ФАМИЛИЈА
Dzoni 01:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Consider this, when a presidential candidate wins an election, are they instantly president? No, they are not. Not untill they are sworn in are they President. Likewise, while this referendum has been won by the independence movement, it has not yet been put into action. Therefore, the nations have not yet split. Rangeley 01:51, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I HEARBY PROCLAIM THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE REPUBLIC OF MONTENEGRO.
RESULTS SEEMS TO BE 54-46 AND IT SEEMS LIKE REFERENDUM FAILD,BUT WE WILL KNOW AT 10 AM WHEN OFFICIAL RESULTS WILL BE KNOWN.BUT AT THIS MOMENT IT LOOKS LIKE ITS LESS THEN 55 PRECENT FOR INDEPENDENCE,MOST LIKELY 54.7 OR 54.8 Dzoni
Deleted offensive msg.
Sigurno neprimjereno mjesto za takve poruke, al cestitke iz hrvatske nasim novim susjedima na nezavisnosti :)
Well, only one voice that said such a number, and it was the loosing party. And they didnt even claim either that they processed all the wotes or that it was a representative sample. And a institution claiming that they did process really all wotes, said again 55,5%. Btw, would montenegro really have respected the 55% imposed EU condition? Its a horrible, imperialist, undemocratic condiditon (GWBush would certanly not have been elected on either elections that way, and Romano Prodi just won by a tenth of a percent). If I were there, and if it really were 54% Id defenately be against submitting to such bullying.. aryah --
89.172.232.205 06:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
HAHAHAHAHA There is no losing party,there are two sides,both of them gave their results and both are different.But who gives a damn what you think,you are just a croat,and everyone knows that Croats are the ones that started the war in ex Yugoslavia,I dont wanna even start with mentioning all of croats crimes in Vukovar 1991,Slavonija 1993,and THE GREATEST ETHNICAL CLENSING IN EUROPE SINCE WW2: CRIMINAL ACTION "OLUJA' WHEN MORE THEN 300.000. SERBS WERE MADE TO RUN FROM CROATIA FOR THEIR LIVES........Thats why you should be quiet and not comment on this Dzoni
I think it was an independent study, and I simply ment loosing in those (and all previous) information. I may be ethnicly a croat, but have little love for croatian politics. Now I might consider some of your assertions here extreme, but I do beleive there were at least some crimes commited in Oluja; in any case, well see what the Hague says about it.. In any case, my nationality has little do do with this, and i find it amazing you would say that on the grounds of my ethnicity, my opinion doesnt count. wtf? aryah -- 89.172.232.205 07:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
@Dzoni: ANTE GOTOVINA, ANTE GOTOVINA!!! ZNA SAD SVAKO GDJE SE SKRIVA, ANTE LEGENDA JE ŽIVA, ANTE GOTOVINA!!!
remember Srebrenica...
--Gotovina was in command during Operation "Oluja" that Serb mentioned..
idiote, toliko bi o Domovinskom ratu valjda trebao znati..
Congratulations to Montenegro, I'm really happy for them, but we won't forget Dubrovnik and Konavle..
Ovaj Džoni je pravi primjer zašto smo se odvojili od Srbije.
--sorry brate.. jebiga, ja nisam mogao odoljeti.. moram ga malo podjebavati :) —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
Cro ed (
talk •
contribs) 09:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC).
POV-pushing and predicting is not to be conducted on wikipedia. -- HolyRomanEmperor 12:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
In the first section titled "Montenegro" in the following paragraph: "Between 1945 and 2003, Montenegro was a Republic of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia respectively. It is now one of two constituent states of the state union of Serbia and Montenegro. On May 21, 2006, Montenegro held a referendum to determine whether or not to terminate the union with Serbia. The next day, state-certified results showed voters favoring independence, with 55.4% of voters in favor, just above the 55% mandate required by the referendum.", quotes the correct vote result.
Whereas in the section titled "History", the last paragraph states "On May 21, 2006 Montenegro's citizens voted by referendum for independence from the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro, ending dissolution of former Yugoslavia's states. 55.3% voted for independence, just over the 55% the referendum required to succeed." which is incorrect.
Correct result was 55.4% as stated at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5003220.stm
Politics and Culture. Politics of Montenegro and Culture of Montenegro. Skinnyweed 15:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Since last night (right after the referendum) I've noticed a constant fight of changes within this article. One of the most relevant disputes here is the map of Montenegro- sometimes still the old one with Montenegro together with Serbia, sometimes Montenegro as a clearly separate country in Europe. I suggest users to stop reverting to the old map. Montenegro is still oficially a part of Serbia-Montenegro, but it's useless to have the map of a union that is now virtually extinct. Life goes on, folks.
I agree, it should be the new independent map from now on.
Constantzeanu 05:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
što se tiče svih, Crna Gora je nezavisna.. stoga, ne jebite više, već stavite kartu nezavisne Crne Gore..
according to everybody Montenegro is independent.. so, don't be assholes and put on the map of free Montenegro..
Cro ed 08:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Whether it's free or not, this article is about Montenegro, and not about Serbia and Montenegro, so just show a map of what this article is about. If I make an article on California, would I put in a map of the USA? - TR Blom
Any idea what ccTLD they're going to get now? .yu will probably be inheirited by Serbia, and .cs is evidently not even in root. Any ideas? 68.39.174.238 03:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
They have reserved .cs Ferick 18:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
The latest update is that the Independence movement won 55.5 % of the electorate. According to Koha Ditore (Daily Times), the 55% threshold was passed by only 2000 votes, which also was the number of Albanians that came from all over the US to vote for the Independence. I think this fact is significant and should be noted. Ferick 15:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I think it should also be noted that attempts, other than the above, were also made in order to try to sway the election results. For example, Serbia organized free travel to vote in the referendum for Montenegrins living in Serbia, the majority of whom were expected to be against independence. [8] Another example, based on speculations of Serbian officials, is that 2671 Montenegrins from Serbia, who were not eligible to vote, were illegally allowed to vote for independence. [9]
I also think it should be noted that Serbia has just recognized the results of the referendum and said they want to remain friends with Montenegro - if Serbia can accept the results I am sure we all can - rej4sl May 23 2006 14:02 CST
What should the date of independence from Serbia be? -- HJV 16:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Completely true (Kosovo, unlike Montenegro, has no State Constitution and is still a Serbian autonomous province): there lots of legal acts to perform first:
All these measures won't be necessary at once, but most of them will need to be finalized for the UN to recognize the new countries. For now, there are State constitutions but they still refer to the Federal constitution and Serbia-and-Montenegro is a party in international treaties that led to its creation (notably with the European Union). This will require lots of discussions, and full independance may take about one year to complete; look at the time it took for Chzechoslovakia to split effectively peacefully; but we are still in atroubled region with lots of ethnic and religious problems. Will Serbia remain a federation? or will it integrate more closely the Voivodine and Kosovo? I doubt of the second option,and think that Serbia will remain federal-like, even though it will have only one State and one Presidency (unless Voivodine and Kosovo split from Serbia). verdy_p 20:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I have a small question: Which script (aplhabet) is used in Monte Negro? I have visited internet pages of the Pobjeda (or Победа?) news [www.pobjeda.cg.yu] and those are written in Latin but titeled in Cyrilic. There is also picture of printed version and it is in Cyrilic. I'm little puzzled. Probably very easy question for some Montenegrin. Thx Đonny 22:18, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
-- 212.200.210.224 02:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
We use them both.But younger population use almost exclusively latinic,and street signs are 95% in latinic.Older people and Serbs from Montenegro tend to use cyrillic script.In constitution,both are official and on institutions,both are used.Pobjeda newspaper is pro-governament but it is more then 60 years old,so they don't want to change their style.Other pro-governament(pro indepentend,pro western)dailies are in latinic.Ewery Montenegrin that can read has no problems with reading in writing in both scripts,not only Montenegrin language,but Croat,Serbian and Bosnian as well,since it is basicly one language,different as much as American and British English are.
Also, Isn't the official language of Montenegro, Serbian of Ijekavian Dialect? Duke Nicholas 02:33, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Someone mentioned above that according to the SiM constitution the state that DOES NOT cede from the union retains all international memberships and treaties of the Union. Is this correct? I have heard the opposite thing - that if either republic (Serbia or Montenegro) votes to leave the Union both of the republics have to re-negotiate all memberships and treaties (including UN membership).
Only in UN Security Council resolution 1244 is mentioned that Kosovo, albeit administred by the UN/UNMIK, remains sovereign territory of the "State Union of Serbia and Montenegro" (then "Federal Republic of Yugoslavia") and that in the case that one of the State Union's republics (federal subjects then) - Serbia or Montenegro gets full independence, in this case Kosovo's sovereignity would be passed to independent Serbia until the question of Kosovo's final status is resolved in the UN framework.
There is no such thing in Resolution 1244.Please double check facts before you make conclusion like that. Serbia will be a successor state only because Montenegro agreed to that kind of arrangement. This is nothing to do with International Law whatsoever. If Montenegro had not agreed to such arrangement, Serbia would have had to apply to all International Institutions. The main reason Serbia wanted this agreement with Montenegro was because of Kosovo. They thought this would somehow negate Resolution 1244 which says Kosovo is a part of Yugoslavia. Their line of reasoning is out of whack because you cannot overwrite International Law with local laws. Resolution 1244 still stands as it is: Kosovo used to be a part of Yugoslavia, while its final status is to be determined. Ferick 12:32, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
why is this still mentioned? it should be changed by now: Montenegro [ˈmɔntɛˌnɛːgrɔ] (Montenegrin: Crna Gora) is a republic in the Balkans, currently one of the two constituent states of the state union of Serbia and Montenegro. -- Makedonia 22:28, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Serbia agreed to the referendum three years ago.
I think we should start working on a new page for Montenegro that will replace the current one at the day of independence, maybe at one of the subpages like Montenegro/temporary (curently holds a copy of the article as of the time of my post), or something. It would be better then modifying the Montenegro page, as it is not yet independent. Anyone think this is a good idea? + Hexagon1 ( talk) 10:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree. It's true that a lot of the politics, economy, culture info is missing from the current Montenegro article, but we can do all of that on the existing Montenegro page. The Economy of Montenegro is already separate, the History section is already being updated as we speak, and as for things that will soon change, like governmental structures -- we can always write about them in the future tense, and then spend ten minutes changing them when independence arrives. On the other hand, if we have a forked page, what's going to end up happening is that we will have two versions of the same article, and it will take us more time to merge them when independence arrives. In short, I think that Montenegro/temporary should be re-merged back into this article before it diverges too much. -- ran ( talk) 15:46, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Okay, the two pages are already diverging, and I'm manually keeping them synchronized. I would suggest deleting the temporary page immediately in order to avoid any more forking. -- ran ( talk) 23:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Okay, the two pages have diverged again over the space of a few hours and I've once again had to reincorporate the differences manually into this page.
This is clearly not sustainable. It is unrealistic and unreasonable to have to keep two pages synchronized each and every day, for the next one to two months. So I've decided to delete the temporary page once and for all.
-- ran ( talk) 11:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
On a related note, this might be a good time to start depopulating and deleting Category:Serbia and Montenegro stubs and Category:Serbia and Montenegro geography stubs. -- ran ( talk) 12:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Which is why it's good to get cracking. =)
Also,
Category:Geography of Serbia and Montenegro and all of its subcategories... I would suggest depopulating all of these categories now while leaving the hierarchy intact (i.e. "cities of Serbia" and "cities of CG" still comes under "cities of SCG", just that "cities of SCG" is empty), and then rearranging the hierarchy on the day of independence.
Category:Cities in Serbia and Montenegro -- not 9 articles anymore, I believe. ;) --
ran (
talk) 13:12, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Do the links to tourism guides contribute towards a goal of writing an encyclopedia? Andjam 13:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
The part of the article that talks about margin of victory (2000) and then allegations of Illegal votes is a mess and needs to be changed. Word of advice: Don't add two lines to a paragraph if it doesn't flow with it. Also words like: also, but also, additionally should not be used on the same paragraph THREE TIMES. Its bad writing..04:01, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please edit this because it is not true.Only smaller part of Bokelji are Catholic-Croatian:"Finally, there are a small groups of Croats and other Catholic inhabitants, who live mostly in the coastal areas, particularly the Bay of Kotor. It's necesarry to point that these Croats, which are named "Bokelji", hence they are living in Boka Kotorska bay and around it, are autochthonous population of this region for centuries."
SLOBODA ... This is what we wanted.... Our own counrty . Montenegro has its own history away from Serbia and the rest of the former Yugoslavia. Montenegrins were the first Slavs to reach the Adriatic in the 6th Century and the Croats and Serbs followed much later in the 7th Century. We have every right to have our own new counrty. We have been there a long time. In time we will be ok alone...it will take time. RE Boka people..this is open to debate..are they Serb?? are they Croat???...that was ancient history...today Boka is Montenegrin and so are the people...Please don't devide our people with ancient origins. If you look back enough we all came from Africa or Adama and Eve right... We don't need Serb or Croat Pov here thanks..
Evergreen Montenegro1 05:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Some users like illir_or crnagora are manupilatin this whole descussion here. They aren't real Montenegrins they are some albanians, wich want to provite of the Montenegrin Independance. Check them profiles too. They are thankfull to NATO and the US for killing our people with munition with uranium. Much people still has cancer, and still dies. Was it worth to attach Serbia and Montenegro and to kill unquilte Serb and Montenegrin people? NO!!! The answer is NO!! And these guys support that some pratices in the world. Well how will they think about an attack @ albania or kosovo albanian people? Will they support NATO and the US then too? I don't think so. You can see it at crnagora's/illr_pz writing style some of these two says in these discussion next is kosovo. This article goes NOT ABOUT KOSOVO. The UN have already said they don't look at the Montenegrin Independance results for a decide for KOSOVO. Boka is of Montenegro, and always it will be. People here say Boka and Hercegovina are officialy part of Bosna and Hercegovina. False! Before the ottomans came in the Balkans in Bosna and Hercegovina, the most and greatest population were Orthodox Serbs, Montenegrins or other Katholice people. After ottomans time, most of these people where being transformed in islamic people,or did it by hiselfs.
Now the most (muslim) Bosniaks say, boka is an opart of BiH. Wuahaha what an good joke. Before the ottomans montenegro had already an great part of boka in hands.
Who are the real Montenegrins? Orthodox people that came from Kosovo (not always from Kosovo)centuries ago....and always lived in Monetnegro. Montenegro is an Orthodox state and you can see it at and by our flag.
That simbol stands for an Orthodox community too. Slovenians, albanians and Croation people can say im real Montenegrin but they're not.
Much bosniaks in Montenegro or albanians vote for independance. Many of these people without an Montenegrin nationality. They vote with only Licna Karta. These is not correctly in my eyes.
Without all these people we were't independance of Serbia. Yes im a real Orthodox Montenegrin that don't support these situation.
Excuse me for my bad english, im trying still to learn it.
Montenegrin parliament today at 20.00 proclaimed Indipendent state of Montenegro - it is official! I hope that now people won't revert page to earlier "Serbia and Montenegro" version, because it cannot anymore be justified by reason "idnependence not declared" and "results of referendum not official".
Possible reason by nostalgic people might be "not internationally recgognized", but that fact does not put Montenegro back to Serbia and Montenegro. No more excuses... Nije bitno... 19:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
-- 84.153.55.216 19:17, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I changed the location in the first paragraph from "country in the Balkans" to "country in southeastern Europe" as I think this is the better form for the article. Balkans is a well known term in the English world but its geographic meaning is not all that well known. Most articles on European countries give the country location in Europe and all use the word Europe in the first one or two sentences. There are many people who have no idea that the Balkans refers to a place in Europe (beleive it or not), not to mention the many people who have no idea where in Europe the region is. Southeastern Europe is the better form to indicate position and continent of the country. I looked at the articles for some of Montenegro's neighbours and they also tend to use the form ".... Europe" in their introductions and not simply Balkans. Just trying to avoid an edit war over something so minor and would like to know if or why somebody maybe dissagrees. -- 84.153.55.216 19:44, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Why is Balkans an offensive term? It's mainly a geographical term for the peninsula in southeastern Europe named for the main mountain range in the area. Does it have a subversive meaning I'm not familiar with? 82.2.161.242 21:04, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Now that the Montenegrin parliament has officially proclaimed the independence of Montenegro, may other countries already start recognizing it? I suggest the creation of an article containing a list of countries as they recognize Montenegro. I've seen that before for other newborn countries.
Sure.
See here for the first mention in the article of Montenegro being internationally recognized. I've been browsing the State Department website to see when the U.S. will recognize CG, but I can't find anything. - Fsotrain09 19:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Should there be a wikipedia article on anti-Montenegrin sentiment now since there are articles about anti-Croatian sentiment, anti-Bosniak sentiment, and anti-Serbian sentiment?
hahahahahaha - u r so right!!! we're irresistible- Jelena
The three Balkan anti-pages are just pitiful examples of playing the victim and trying to label all criticism of the own ethnic group as something akin to anti-Semitism. Sure, som Crots, Serbs and Bosnian Muslims hate each other and try to put each other down, but that doesn't mean it's some kind of institutionalized ideology. Heck, Norwegians and Danes have jokes about us Swedes (and vice versa), but we don't go off writing long articles about anti-Swedish sentiment.
Osli73 12:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Some! There was a wart with thousands killed. alot of these people hate each other
it's no newer than Serbia.
This is less widely discussed on: Talk:Serbia#Now_we.27ll_have_to_change_all_the_maps_that_dont_include_the_border_between_Serbia_and_Montenegro
-- Greasysteve13 09:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
There was Namibia somewhere in between there........... Canuckguy 00:36, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I've changed the location maps (in the infoboxes of country pages) for most countries in Europe and the Middle East that show the border. Did it by copying the border from LocationMontenegro.PNG to other pics in MS Paint. I was unable to fix the border for some small countries (San Marino, Liechtenstein) that have a 'zoomed-in' view in the map, and I might have missed a few. Rain74 17:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
-- Greasysteve13 11:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
This is the "First" time i heard that Bosnia is claiming Boka region in Montenegro. Good luck hahhaa Bosnia can claim Boka like a Bosnian can claim inventing Pizza. No chance. 1,0000000 to 1 chance. Boka region was once part of Croatia and had a big Croat population prior to 1910. Today things have changed and Croats are long gone and in came the Serbs....and lest we forget Montenegrings have always been there. So I can't see Bosnia claiming Boka in anyway. Unless maybe they are saying Bosnian Croats.....well thats another long debate.... Evergreen Montenegro1 06:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Wuahaha they claming Boka so what? But we never will give it to them. An invasion will have an massive reaction to montenegrin people and they will come up to protect there father / motherland.
@ Evergreen Montenegro1: You know history very bad. Boka was never Croatian, it was Montengrian and Serbian from 6 century. I would also like to add that whole Dalmatia never was Croatian till nowadays. They had Dalmatia till Makarska. Further was Serbian land. It is wellknown, for example that tzar Dusan Silni gifted Dubrovnik with Konavle, etc.
CrnaGora im not talking about "ethnic" Montenegrins...but im talking abpout real Montenegrins before 1918....in the time of King Nikola and Petar Petrovic Njegos 1 & 2. That are real Montenegrins that brought my beautiful land like we know it now.
You say you're just 5% Albanian. Succes but it's not possible to be just only 5% Albanian. Or one of both of your parents are albanian. You can only be or 100% albanian (living in Montenegro) or 75% or 50% or 25% but not 5%.
That your most articles goes about Montenegro that doesn't mather. I can write a lot of propaganda about albania in the wikipedia about albania but that don't make me albanian.
Im sorry to say but for most Montenegrin people you be still and for always an siptar.
Even another subject:
When Montenegro (21 may 2006) became indenpendance there where siptars (they say they're Montenegrin) celebrating Montenegrins independance with albanian flags!!!??? Sorry but what the f**k does albanians and theyre flags have with Montenegrin victory?! Celebrating is good with only Montenegrin flags but not with siptar and albanian flags. Thats not acceptable.....you can see it like claming Plav and Ulcinj. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.126.152.198 ( talk • contribs) 19:36, 6 June 2006
Im answering to CrnaGora's....questions and comments. If jou believe it or not but there are here more thing that are not correctable by the wikipedia rules. Im just a user like you....and this here is an discussion board. Not the information page about Montenegro. Im just trying to realize people that most users here manupilating these wole information page by their own ideas, rules and etc.
You say: if you don't like it, change it. I can change it but there will always somebody be that will change it to hes own idea's. Im just changing something because it's the truth, because it are the faits. No lies. It's no personal attack against the wiki user CrnaGora, i just want to view you all these user hase reasons to manupilate this wiki to his own ideas.
Technically dude, that is a personal attack to CrnaGora if you read your first post on this header. Milo 08:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I added a link to the article concerning the foreign relations of Montenegro, where I just included a table listing the countries that have granted recognition to Montenegro. So far only Iceland has. As the recognitions increase, please help me keeping the table up-to-date.
I just think that naming a state "looser" is POV except when describing for instance a sporting event. Shouldn't it be changed? 'Course I'm new to Wiki so I might be comletely wrong :) TheLigerGirl 00:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)TheLigerGirl
Oh God, I'm terribly sorry, I just thought that looser was a spelling mistake of loser completely forgetting it has a meaning of its own. Sorry TheLigerGirl 08:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)TheLigerGirl
We list these as separate ethnic groups. What's the difference between them? john k 14:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think there is much difference except that Bosniaks originate from Sandžak, while Slavic Muslims originate from Slavic coutnrues, hence the name "Slavic Muslims", but most Bosniaks are technically Slavic Muslims if you think about it. Milo 08:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
What rubbish! The difference is in self-identification and nothing more. -- estavisti 00:38, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Not to be pedantic, but wouldn't the first country to recognize Montenegro's independence actually have been Serbia? -- Jfruh ( talk) 22:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Why is there still a Serbia And Montenegor team? If they won,who would get credit? Dudtz 6/12/06 6:52 PM EST
From the article: "The European Union and the United States recognised Montenegro on June 12, as have various member states of the EU and other European countries."
If the EU as a whole recognized Montenegro, is it necessary (legally) for every EU member state to recognize it independently of the EU recognition? ☆ CieloEstrellado 23:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Is this edit accurate? -- Telex 13:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Anybody have a source for that? The Tom 22:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Montenegro became de facto independent in 1042 after battle of Bar,and it was recognised by Pope as Kingdom of Doclea (old name for Montenegro) in 1077. Also, it was unified (anexed) by Serbia on 26 November of 1918,there is no reason for puting this 1917. date.
While I realise that the euro is Montenegro's de facto currency, is it also their currency de jure. That is to say: (I know the EU doesn't have an agreement with them) are there laws within Montenegro which name the euro as legal tender (people and businesses are obliged to accept it as means of payment) - Рэд хот 16:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
In Hong Kong public (newspaper and TV news), we called it 黑山. But only in textbook and in public examination such as HKCEE and HKALE, we called it 門特尼哥羅.
Souce: Prepared by the Curriculum Development Council, Issued by the Hong Kong Education Departement in 1991.
by Pentium Kwok, Hong Kong 17 June, 2006
I have heard that the Montenegro declared war on Japan along with some of their allies (I think Russia), and also that peace was never officialy declared. Is this true?
No, I'm not talking about that. I think that one of their kings or rulers or whatever declared war on Japan just becouse Russia did so. It was both before World War II and World War I. That war was only war on the paper, as there was no fighting at all. However peace still hasn't officialy been declared... Adamantum 22:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, it's impossible for montenegro to have declared war in WW2 because it didn't exist other than a nazi satilite state that nobody recognized.
"Montenegro was recognised as an independent nation by Serbia on June 15"
This sentence mentioned in the first paragraph is ridiculous. Many countries recognised Montenegro as independent, not only Serbia, so why only Serbia is mentioned here? Is that sentence another example of accusing Serbia for territorial expansionism? Why Serbia would not recognise independence of Montenegro? Serbia and Montenegro were two members of the state union and Montenegro had right to become independent and Serbia did not had intentions to deny that right. So, why somebody think that it was important to mention here that Montenegro was recognised as an independent nation by Serbia? I do not think that Serbia would do anything else in this case, and the sentence imply that it would. Thus, I will remove this ridiculous sentence. PANONIAN (talk) 14:57, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I think you're overreacting.
Zazaban 02:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
About 3 quarters of it is just the last 14 years and a huge section is just dealing with about 1 month. come on. Montenegro's history can't be THAT dull!
The current elections for the Montenegrin government are actually the second semester of the Montenegrin referendum. Why is there nothing in the article? Appearently, the Democratic Party of Socialists of Montenegro- Social Democratic Party of Montenegro won 41 mandate in the Republican Assembly; while the Serbian Paper got 12, the Coalition Serbian People's Party of Montenegro- People's Party of Montenegro-[{Democratic Serbian Party of Montenegro]] and the Movemend for Changes each got 11. The Liberal Party of Montengero and the Bosniak Party of Montenegro each got 2, while 1 got the 4 political Albanian factions. -- HolyRomanEmperor 15:22, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
The ISO code, and therefore Wikipedia template, of {{MNE}} is now official =)
I have found a number of maps that do not show the Serbian-Montenegrin border: [19] [20] [21]
And also some maps at [22]. ( Stefan2 13:20, 6 October 2006 (UTC))
This talk page is waaaay too big. Zazaban 18:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Since it Montenegro has become a new nation, some changes must be done to the article. We need to address curency, GDP economy, and military changes in organization and what not.
Also there needs to be a good time table of events like admitance into the UN, WTO, maybe EU and such
I doubt Germany and the EU formally allow Montenegro to use Euro as an official curency
The ECB is neutral on the issue of other countries using the Euro, so that is not an issue. OTOH, that is not an accepted path to joining the Eurozone.
Although Montenegro have not fullfilled the so-called "Maastricht criteria" required for entering in euro-zone, the EU allowed the usage of euro because Montenegrin economy is so small it can not affect so much bigger European economy
Some Montenegrins have in recent years shown a desire to separate Montenegro from the federation with jist of the separatist movement being among the Slavic Muslim and Albanian minorities who make up some 20% of the population -- what does this sentence mean? -- Zoe
Montenegrin Orthodox Church is not recognised by any other orthodox church. However, the USA likes these little games of making new cultures and dividing nations so what can one expect.
The main church is the Serb Orthodox Church, though there is also a splinter Montenegrin Orthodox Church established in 1993. The faithful reportedly remain close to the Serb Orthodox Church regardless of the new church as can be witnessed by the attendance of sermons and booming monastic life at the Serb church none of which the other side can boast of.
This seemed rather biased toward one church, especially the second sentence. I'll strike it and revise the first part to try for a more NPOV.
The article states that "Montenegrins are mostly Eastern Orthodox Christians. The two major branches are the Serb Orthodox Church and the Montenegrin Orthodox Church, which was re-established in 1993.". MOC is not a major branch of Eastern Orthodoxy, nor was it re-established in 1993. Nikola 12:36, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
The previous comment of the article states that MOC was not re-established in 1993, which is a fallacy. The MOC has been legally registered in Montenegro in line with the valid legal system of the state of Montenegro and in line with the laws in Montenegro - which is clearly apparent from the MOC page on Wikipedia. The MOC Church is called the Montenegrin Orthodox Church in its formal registration in Montenegro, so there is no space for speculation here. The Church was re-established after a separate existence until 1920 and a ban by the Serbian (then Yugoslav) autocratic King Aleksandar. The article does not claim that MOC is a major branch of Eastern Orthodoxy outside Montenegro.
The statement "over 74% of Montenegrins are Eastern Orthodox Christians, most of whom belong to the Serb Orthodox Church" is anyway a fallacy, as there is no accurate census that can prove this. One may say truthfully say that "most Montenegrins are Eastern Orthodox Christians, most of whom belong to the Serb Orthodox Church", but a large number of Montenegrins are atheists, agnostics, or otherwise, myself included. Being a Montenegrin does not mean that you are part of the 74% of Eastern Orthodox Christians. Sorry, this is the 21st century.
You can not just delete the fact that MOC followers claim that "all of the existing churches in Montenegro were once part of an autonomous Montenegrin Orthodox Church that was abolished following the union with Serbia in 1918." This is the explanation why shrines are not being built en masse in Montenegro by the MOC, as it claims to inherit the churches currently in the hands of SOC. If we put only one viewpoint in "its following is small to the point of non-existence and it has not been recognised by any other Orthodox Church" it is not balanced. Also, the statement "its following is small to the point of non-existence" needs to be based on fact not fancy. Do you have an official census of followers or is this your speculation? - user 20:28, 04 Oct 2005 (UTC).
What does the statement that the Montenegrin Orthodox Church isn't "recognised" mean? Who needs to recognise it? Several national Orthodox churches accept and cooperate with it: Bulgarian, Macedonian, Romanian, Italian, to name a few. Momisan 11:38, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Anybody has ANY idea why is the international name of Montenegro in Spanish? I haven't been able to find this peace of information. Thnx. -- Marianocecowski 13:29, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Monte Negro/Montenegro is Veneto, a dialect(?) of Italian which is the word most of the world uses today when referring to Crna Gora - Black Mountain - MonteNegro. Some nations do not use Montenegro but translate literally Black Mountain: Slavs (Cerna Gora, several variations), Greeks (Mavrovunion), Albanians (Mal i Zi) and Turks (Karadag).
- What puzzles me is why would these countries copy one another because it would be a big coincidence if all of them, seeing for themselves, call the country "Black Mountain". And why don't we have the name that the aboriginals called their land since Slavs arrived there after antiquity. Thus Cerna Gora can't be a possible candidate. Thus I think it either comes from Albanian "Mali i Zi" or Greek "Mavrounion". - user
- Spanish kingdom of Aragon ruled the mediterraean seas during the 14th, 15th and 16th centuries, having even territories in Sicily, Southern part of Italy, Crete, Sardinia and some greek territory... The name should come from that period.
In any case:
No! This name (Montenegro) has no direct connection to Spanish origin at all. It is Venetian dialect a bit different from official Italian! In Florentine dialect of Italian (became official language in Italy), it is Montenero, but Venice has been for a long period adjacent to Montenegro and they influenced its international name. It is not just Ivory Coast that is called this way. USA is also mostly translated in the most of the Languages. Name of romanic France originates from germanic people of Franks and is broadly accepted as international name.
On the other side, Germany is called totally differently in different languages (e.g. Deutschland, Alemania, Tedesca, Njemacka etc.). That are totaly different meanings (e.g. slavic Njemacka/Nemcia means "dumb country", originating from the fact that German language was unintelligible to adjacent Slavs at that time!).
Hi every body. About the dicussion on to the "spanish or not origin of the name MONTENEGRO only a date for your reference : I am spanish ( as you know... from my English) I was really socked when a ear a song in the montenegrin language about its country. They call them, in the song: MONTENEGRO with a perfect Spanish pronuntation!!!. Really I found those articles looking for the reason about. So them no way to the thesys of traslation. The USA people, sure that the USA citizen never use in a song "Los Estados Unidos de America" like that, in spanih. Best regards friend
Dears,
I'd like to report that the figures shown in these pages are somewhat different from point to point. As for total population there are two different (but not so much) figures and the same holds for ethnic minorities' percentages. Albanians are reported to be the 5% (main page)and 7% (link to demographic history) of total pop.
Thanks,
Eniel
The article states that "Montenegrin and Serb identities are not exclusive", but this is not true. They are exlusive acording to the constitution of Montenegro, the constitutional charter of Serbia and Montenegro, and half a dozen separate censuses since the mid 20th century - all of which allow only one national identity to be declared.
Nor has there been any attempt to invalidate the census in front of the Montenegrin courts. So, the sentence "Montenegrin and Serb identities are not exclusive", is a fallacy and not simply true according to the latest census and the rights of ethnic groups as specified in the constitution.
These are the raw and unbiased facts (not speculation). On the other hand, it is true that a number of Serbs and Montenegrins may believe that they have both identities - but there is no modern census nor constitutional basis that can support a statement such as "Montenegrin and Serb identities are not exclusive". Many Montenegrins do not feel to be Serb, and never pronounce themselves as such. You can not force national groups to "be Serb" if they do not feel so and never declare as such.
"However the number of Montenegrins does seem to be in steep decline since the introduction of the category by the Communists on the 1948 census" seems to imply that the Communist regime declared the nationality of citizens in polls. This is not true, as citizens declared their nationaility in polls, individually.
In fact, the Communists - for the first time allowed citizens to declare their nationality as Montenegrin - by introducing the category, which is more important. If it stands like the previous user wants it to stand, then we must add a sentence stipulating that the "Serbian ruling dynasties in the pre World War II Yugoslavia banned Montenegrin citizens from declaring their nationality as 'Montenegrin'" This is as true as the Communist quirp, as the Montenegrin option was obviously not allowed before World War II.
The sentence "The validity of the referendum was not confirmed by international observers as the allegedly free and democratic vote, in fact took place during wartime in the former Yugoslavia." is true. So I leave it. Of course, I agree to change "international" into "OSCE, EU and US" - as the referendum may have had international monitoring from Cuba, Iraq, North Korea, Byelorussia, and Russia. - user 20:28, 04 Oct 2005 (UTC).
Note that recent edit by 70.131.167.113 is copyvio of [2]. Nikola 13:26, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
The statement that all Albanians living in Montenegro are muslims is false. In fact, most of them are Roman Catholics. Only Ulcinj has a significant number of ALbanian muslims. PLease correct this. Momisan 11:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
Does the statement that the Croats living the Bay of Kotor are autochtonous mean that the other inhabitans of the Bay are not? To remind you, today's Montenegro was first inhabited by Slavs in the sixth century. The Croats reached the Adriatic a century or two later. Momisan 11:53, 11 August 2006 (UTC)
The introductory paragraph says:
"Democratic" I suppose refers to the form of government; I think it would be better to be more precise, e.g. a parliamentary democracy. "Social" is unclear. Does this mean that it is currently governed by a party that calls itself "socialist"? Does it mean that it has social programs? And what does "ecological" mean here? That is a mystery. -- Macrakis 19:32, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
For "democratic" you are right. "Social" means that it has social programs and take care about the citizens that are not able to take care to about themselves. "Ecological" means that its environment is quite preserved and that its regulation protects such environment from future damages.
'La France est une république indivisible, laïque, démocratique et sociale.' (Article 1 of the French Constitution), so there is a well-known precedent for 'social' at least. [4] The planned European Constitution (now on a back burner) also talks about a social-market economy. This is quite a common concept in continental Europe. Maybe all that's needed is to make clear that this definition comes from the Constitution. Will peters
I know Serbia and Montenegro is currenct SCG...but is there an existing or planned code for Montenegro? Would it be CGR..? Or is this just idle speculation? doktorb | words 17:01, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
There is a vote on Wikipedia to see whether Wikipedians believe Montenegro should be independent or not. The vote can be accessed at Wikipedian Vote for Montenegrin Independence.
there's something wrong with the statistics. Aren't bosniaks the same as muslims ? --- User:Unixer 07:31, 30 March 2006
They are same peoples, Bosniaks=muslims this is political decision of they leaders, everithing is funny and complicate
Hello! Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring – and with the hope of resolving this issue – you might be interested in a poll currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article. Please weigh in! Bitola | talk | 01:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Should the Montenegrin naming be used in the pretext? The language isn't internationally recognized as a distinct from the Serbian language. If we name it, we should also name Croatian, Bosnian and Albanian. -- HolyRomanEmperor 21:18, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
This is ridiculous, there is no "Montenegrin language"!!! The only difference between the language in the Republic of Serbia and Montenegro is the dialect which involvs changing e's to ij's (i.e. lepo becomes lijepo). This is the Ijekavian dialect. Same dialect used in most of Croatia. Montenegrin independence is a difference in political identity not cultural. There never was a Montenegrin identity independent of the Serbian identity. One could argue along the same lines as was done for Montenegro that the people of Sumadija or the Serbs of Bosnia are an independent people. back onto the language issue. To proclaim Montenegrin as an independent language would be the same as calling for the language of Austria to be changed to Austrian rather than German. Or to have the language of the USA changed to American rather than English. Political separation among an ethnic group is not basis for creating artificial languages and forced cultural identification as the separtist government in Montenegro has attempted to accomplish and the USA is accepting so enthusiastically. Seriously, why not changed the official language of Austria to Austrian. Considering that they have never been part of the German nation (excluding Nazi occupation during the second World War) and that they in fact were always a fully independent nation long before the formation of a unified Germany. If "Montenegrin" can be so easily self-proclaimed as a language why not do the same with the "American" and "Austrian" as they have far greater merits for creation than "Montenegrin". Montenegro is culturally a part of Serbia. - Milos Pantelic. Podgorica, Montenegro.
Eh, no it didn't. The end.-- estavisti 10:22, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
Wat are you doing hier serbian, albanian, ... language. Wer is Montenegrin language!!!!!. watr are you maken her. Do you want to asimilet the Montenegrin language!!!-- Hipi Zhdripi 02:01, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
The Government of Montenegro's official website at http://www.gom.cg.yu/eng/ now describes the local language as Crnogorski, which translates as Montenegrin in English Skinsmoke 00:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)
Cyrillic is an official alphabet (the referendum 2006 question is in cyrillic) and more than 60% declared they speak Serbian in teh census). -- Pockey 17:34, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
No argumet!!! please dont inteprete the documents
Sombody have putit this Kosovo place in Serbia stub or category or template here with out argumet. We dont have a argumet that Kosovo is part of S/M. We have tha Constitution of this countrie but we have the rez. 1244 wich is more importen for the Wikipedia and is saying that Kosovo it is a part of Yougoslavia and is prototoriat of UN. Till we dont have a clearly argument from UN, aricel about Kosovo must be out of this stub or category or template. Pleas dont make the discution with intepretation or the Law wich are not accordin to 1244. Everybodoy can do that but that is nothing for Wikipedia.-- Hipi Zhdripi 06:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
This is ridiculous, there is no "Montenegrin language"!!! The only difference between the language in the Republic of Serbia and Montenegro is the dialect which involvs changing e's to ij's (i.e. lepo becomes lijepo). This is the Ijekavian dialect. Same dialect used in most of Croatia. Montenegrin independence is a difference in political identity not cultural. There never was a Montenegrin identity independent of the Serbian identity. One could argue along the same lines as was done for Montenegro that the people of Sumadija or the Serbs of Bosnia are an independent people. back onto the language issue. To proclaim Montenegrin as an independent language would be the same as calling for the language of Austria to be changed to Austrian rather than German. Or to have the language of the USA changed to American rather than English. Political separation among an ethnic group is not basis for creating artificial languages and forced cultural identification as the separtist government in Montenegro has attempted to accomplish and the USA is accepting so enthusiastically. Seriously, why not changed the official language of Austria to Austrian. Considering that they have never been part of the German nation (excluding Nazi occupation during the second World War) and that they in fact were always a fully independent nation long before the formation of a unified Germany. If "Montenegrin" can be so easily self-proclaimed as a language why not do the same with the "American" and "Austrian" as they have far greater merits for creation than "Montenegrin". Montenegro is culturally a part of Serbia. - Milos Pantelic. Podgorica, Montenegro.
How would you pronounce it in English? Crena Gora?
Petrovic-Njegos 13:42, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
It's pronounced tsr-na-go-ra. No duh. CrnaGora ( Talk/ Contribs/ E-mail/ Edit Count) 21:04, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
-- Greasysteve13 09:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
yes, it is! "Greater Serbia" is falling apart! Kosovo is next
Montenegro is FINALLY FREE AND INDEPENDENT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Crna Gora je KONAČNO SLOBODNA I NEZAVISNA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! CrnaGora ( Talk/ Contribs/ E-mail/ Edit Count) 21:05, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
I hate to break it to you pal, but Montenegro is now practically an Independent state. Everything you mentioned earlier is a formality.Any attempt by Serbia to delay the Independence of Montenegro will be neutralized swiftly. Congratulation to all those who voted to free Montenegro from the chains it has been living with. Ferick 21:51, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
(off-topic and offensive comments removed by Mark 23:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC))
Hey now, this page is for the discussion of the Montenegro article, not the referendum (at least not outside of the context of the article), and particularly not for offensive comments. That said I'm pretty impressed by how quickly the article's being updated and I eagerly await its reaching of the quality expected of country articles. PoptartKing 23:31, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Referenda don't cause countries to become independent: actions of their governments do. So can someone please remove the date of independence from the country's infobox? It's not independent yet. By the sounds of things, the official results of the referendum have not even been officially announced. I love having articles updated very quickly, but not pre-emptively. - Mark 23:48, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Agreed, Montenegro is not yet independent, but this article assumes that that is the case. 68.147.71.92 00:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
НАЖАЛОСТ,МОРАМ ДА ВАМ ПОКВАРИМ СЛАВЉЕ ,ПОСЛЕДЊИ РЕЗЛТАТИ КАЖУ 54-46!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!ЦРНА ГОРА И СРБИЈА ТО ЈЕ ЈЕДНА ФАМИЛИЈА
Dzoni 01:48, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Consider this, when a presidential candidate wins an election, are they instantly president? No, they are not. Not untill they are sworn in are they President. Likewise, while this referendum has been won by the independence movement, it has not yet been put into action. Therefore, the nations have not yet split. Rangeley 01:51, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I HEARBY PROCLAIM THE INDEPENDENCE OF THE REPUBLIC OF MONTENEGRO.
RESULTS SEEMS TO BE 54-46 AND IT SEEMS LIKE REFERENDUM FAILD,BUT WE WILL KNOW AT 10 AM WHEN OFFICIAL RESULTS WILL BE KNOWN.BUT AT THIS MOMENT IT LOOKS LIKE ITS LESS THEN 55 PRECENT FOR INDEPENDENCE,MOST LIKELY 54.7 OR 54.8 Dzoni
Deleted offensive msg.
Sigurno neprimjereno mjesto za takve poruke, al cestitke iz hrvatske nasim novim susjedima na nezavisnosti :)
Well, only one voice that said such a number, and it was the loosing party. And they didnt even claim either that they processed all the wotes or that it was a representative sample. And a institution claiming that they did process really all wotes, said again 55,5%. Btw, would montenegro really have respected the 55% imposed EU condition? Its a horrible, imperialist, undemocratic condiditon (GWBush would certanly not have been elected on either elections that way, and Romano Prodi just won by a tenth of a percent). If I were there, and if it really were 54% Id defenately be against submitting to such bullying.. aryah --
89.172.232.205 06:38, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
HAHAHAHAHA There is no losing party,there are two sides,both of them gave their results and both are different.But who gives a damn what you think,you are just a croat,and everyone knows that Croats are the ones that started the war in ex Yugoslavia,I dont wanna even start with mentioning all of croats crimes in Vukovar 1991,Slavonija 1993,and THE GREATEST ETHNICAL CLENSING IN EUROPE SINCE WW2: CRIMINAL ACTION "OLUJA' WHEN MORE THEN 300.000. SERBS WERE MADE TO RUN FROM CROATIA FOR THEIR LIVES........Thats why you should be quiet and not comment on this Dzoni
I think it was an independent study, and I simply ment loosing in those (and all previous) information. I may be ethnicly a croat, but have little love for croatian politics. Now I might consider some of your assertions here extreme, but I do beleive there were at least some crimes commited in Oluja; in any case, well see what the Hague says about it.. In any case, my nationality has little do do with this, and i find it amazing you would say that on the grounds of my ethnicity, my opinion doesnt count. wtf? aryah -- 89.172.232.205 07:04, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
@Dzoni: ANTE GOTOVINA, ANTE GOTOVINA!!! ZNA SAD SVAKO GDJE SE SKRIVA, ANTE LEGENDA JE ŽIVA, ANTE GOTOVINA!!!
remember Srebrenica...
--Gotovina was in command during Operation "Oluja" that Serb mentioned..
idiote, toliko bi o Domovinskom ratu valjda trebao znati..
Congratulations to Montenegro, I'm really happy for them, but we won't forget Dubrovnik and Konavle..
Ovaj Džoni je pravi primjer zašto smo se odvojili od Srbije.
--sorry brate.. jebiga, ja nisam mogao odoljeti.. moram ga malo podjebavati :) —The preceding
unsigned comment was added by
Cro ed (
talk •
contribs) 09:25, 22 May 2006 (UTC).
POV-pushing and predicting is not to be conducted on wikipedia. -- HolyRomanEmperor 12:57, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
In the first section titled "Montenegro" in the following paragraph: "Between 1945 and 2003, Montenegro was a Republic of the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia respectively. It is now one of two constituent states of the state union of Serbia and Montenegro. On May 21, 2006, Montenegro held a referendum to determine whether or not to terminate the union with Serbia. The next day, state-certified results showed voters favoring independence, with 55.4% of voters in favor, just above the 55% mandate required by the referendum.", quotes the correct vote result.
Whereas in the section titled "History", the last paragraph states "On May 21, 2006 Montenegro's citizens voted by referendum for independence from the State Union of Serbia and Montenegro, ending dissolution of former Yugoslavia's states. 55.3% voted for independence, just over the 55% the referendum required to succeed." which is incorrect.
Correct result was 55.4% as stated at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/5003220.stm
Politics and Culture. Politics of Montenegro and Culture of Montenegro. Skinnyweed 15:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Since last night (right after the referendum) I've noticed a constant fight of changes within this article. One of the most relevant disputes here is the map of Montenegro- sometimes still the old one with Montenegro together with Serbia, sometimes Montenegro as a clearly separate country in Europe. I suggest users to stop reverting to the old map. Montenegro is still oficially a part of Serbia-Montenegro, but it's useless to have the map of a union that is now virtually extinct. Life goes on, folks.
I agree, it should be the new independent map from now on.
Constantzeanu 05:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
što se tiče svih, Crna Gora je nezavisna.. stoga, ne jebite više, već stavite kartu nezavisne Crne Gore..
according to everybody Montenegro is independent.. so, don't be assholes and put on the map of free Montenegro..
Cro ed 08:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Whether it's free or not, this article is about Montenegro, and not about Serbia and Montenegro, so just show a map of what this article is about. If I make an article on California, would I put in a map of the USA? - TR Blom
Any idea what ccTLD they're going to get now? .yu will probably be inheirited by Serbia, and .cs is evidently not even in root. Any ideas? 68.39.174.238 03:42, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
They have reserved .cs Ferick 18:48, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
The latest update is that the Independence movement won 55.5 % of the electorate. According to Koha Ditore (Daily Times), the 55% threshold was passed by only 2000 votes, which also was the number of Albanians that came from all over the US to vote for the Independence. I think this fact is significant and should be noted. Ferick 15:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I think it should also be noted that attempts, other than the above, were also made in order to try to sway the election results. For example, Serbia organized free travel to vote in the referendum for Montenegrins living in Serbia, the majority of whom were expected to be against independence. [8] Another example, based on speculations of Serbian officials, is that 2671 Montenegrins from Serbia, who were not eligible to vote, were illegally allowed to vote for independence. [9]
I also think it should be noted that Serbia has just recognized the results of the referendum and said they want to remain friends with Montenegro - if Serbia can accept the results I am sure we all can - rej4sl May 23 2006 14:02 CST
What should the date of independence from Serbia be? -- HJV 16:04, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Completely true (Kosovo, unlike Montenegro, has no State Constitution and is still a Serbian autonomous province): there lots of legal acts to perform first:
All these measures won't be necessary at once, but most of them will need to be finalized for the UN to recognize the new countries. For now, there are State constitutions but they still refer to the Federal constitution and Serbia-and-Montenegro is a party in international treaties that led to its creation (notably with the European Union). This will require lots of discussions, and full independance may take about one year to complete; look at the time it took for Chzechoslovakia to split effectively peacefully; but we are still in atroubled region with lots of ethnic and religious problems. Will Serbia remain a federation? or will it integrate more closely the Voivodine and Kosovo? I doubt of the second option,and think that Serbia will remain federal-like, even though it will have only one State and one Presidency (unless Voivodine and Kosovo split from Serbia). verdy_p 20:57, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
I have a small question: Which script (aplhabet) is used in Monte Negro? I have visited internet pages of the Pobjeda (or Победа?) news [www.pobjeda.cg.yu] and those are written in Latin but titeled in Cyrilic. There is also picture of printed version and it is in Cyrilic. I'm little puzzled. Probably very easy question for some Montenegrin. Thx Đonny 22:18, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
-- 212.200.210.224 02:01, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
We use them both.But younger population use almost exclusively latinic,and street signs are 95% in latinic.Older people and Serbs from Montenegro tend to use cyrillic script.In constitution,both are official and on institutions,both are used.Pobjeda newspaper is pro-governament but it is more then 60 years old,so they don't want to change their style.Other pro-governament(pro indepentend,pro western)dailies are in latinic.Ewery Montenegrin that can read has no problems with reading in writing in both scripts,not only Montenegrin language,but Croat,Serbian and Bosnian as well,since it is basicly one language,different as much as American and British English are.
Also, Isn't the official language of Montenegro, Serbian of Ijekavian Dialect? Duke Nicholas 02:33, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Someone mentioned above that according to the SiM constitution the state that DOES NOT cede from the union retains all international memberships and treaties of the Union. Is this correct? I have heard the opposite thing - that if either republic (Serbia or Montenegro) votes to leave the Union both of the republics have to re-negotiate all memberships and treaties (including UN membership).
Only in UN Security Council resolution 1244 is mentioned that Kosovo, albeit administred by the UN/UNMIK, remains sovereign territory of the "State Union of Serbia and Montenegro" (then "Federal Republic of Yugoslavia") and that in the case that one of the State Union's republics (federal subjects then) - Serbia or Montenegro gets full independence, in this case Kosovo's sovereignity would be passed to independent Serbia until the question of Kosovo's final status is resolved in the UN framework.
There is no such thing in Resolution 1244.Please double check facts before you make conclusion like that. Serbia will be a successor state only because Montenegro agreed to that kind of arrangement. This is nothing to do with International Law whatsoever. If Montenegro had not agreed to such arrangement, Serbia would have had to apply to all International Institutions. The main reason Serbia wanted this agreement with Montenegro was because of Kosovo. They thought this would somehow negate Resolution 1244 which says Kosovo is a part of Yugoslavia. Their line of reasoning is out of whack because you cannot overwrite International Law with local laws. Resolution 1244 still stands as it is: Kosovo used to be a part of Yugoslavia, while its final status is to be determined. Ferick 12:32, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
why is this still mentioned? it should be changed by now: Montenegro [ˈmɔntɛˌnɛːgrɔ] (Montenegrin: Crna Gora) is a republic in the Balkans, currently one of the two constituent states of the state union of Serbia and Montenegro. -- Makedonia 22:28, 24 May 2006 (UTC)
Serbia agreed to the referendum three years ago.
I think we should start working on a new page for Montenegro that will replace the current one at the day of independence, maybe at one of the subpages like Montenegro/temporary (curently holds a copy of the article as of the time of my post), or something. It would be better then modifying the Montenegro page, as it is not yet independent. Anyone think this is a good idea? + Hexagon1 ( talk) 10:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I agree. It's true that a lot of the politics, economy, culture info is missing from the current Montenegro article, but we can do all of that on the existing Montenegro page. The Economy of Montenegro is already separate, the History section is already being updated as we speak, and as for things that will soon change, like governmental structures -- we can always write about them in the future tense, and then spend ten minutes changing them when independence arrives. On the other hand, if we have a forked page, what's going to end up happening is that we will have two versions of the same article, and it will take us more time to merge them when independence arrives. In short, I think that Montenegro/temporary should be re-merged back into this article before it diverges too much. -- ran ( talk) 15:46, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Okay, the two pages are already diverging, and I'm manually keeping them synchronized. I would suggest deleting the temporary page immediately in order to avoid any more forking. -- ran ( talk) 23:08, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Okay, the two pages have diverged again over the space of a few hours and I've once again had to reincorporate the differences manually into this page.
This is clearly not sustainable. It is unrealistic and unreasonable to have to keep two pages synchronized each and every day, for the next one to two months. So I've decided to delete the temporary page once and for all.
-- ran ( talk) 11:37, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
On a related note, this might be a good time to start depopulating and deleting Category:Serbia and Montenegro stubs and Category:Serbia and Montenegro geography stubs. -- ran ( talk) 12:49, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Which is why it's good to get cracking. =)
Also,
Category:Geography of Serbia and Montenegro and all of its subcategories... I would suggest depopulating all of these categories now while leaving the hierarchy intact (i.e. "cities of Serbia" and "cities of CG" still comes under "cities of SCG", just that "cities of SCG" is empty), and then rearranging the hierarchy on the day of independence.
Category:Cities in Serbia and Montenegro -- not 9 articles anymore, I believe. ;) --
ran (
talk) 13:12, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
Do the links to tourism guides contribute towards a goal of writing an encyclopedia? Andjam 13:40, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
The part of the article that talks about margin of victory (2000) and then allegations of Illegal votes is a mess and needs to be changed. Word of advice: Don't add two lines to a paragraph if it doesn't flow with it. Also words like: also, but also, additionally should not be used on the same paragraph THREE TIMES. Its bad writing..04:01, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
Can someone please edit this because it is not true.Only smaller part of Bokelji are Catholic-Croatian:"Finally, there are a small groups of Croats and other Catholic inhabitants, who live mostly in the coastal areas, particularly the Bay of Kotor. It's necesarry to point that these Croats, which are named "Bokelji", hence they are living in Boka Kotorska bay and around it, are autochthonous population of this region for centuries."
SLOBODA ... This is what we wanted.... Our own counrty . Montenegro has its own history away from Serbia and the rest of the former Yugoslavia. Montenegrins were the first Slavs to reach the Adriatic in the 6th Century and the Croats and Serbs followed much later in the 7th Century. We have every right to have our own new counrty. We have been there a long time. In time we will be ok alone...it will take time. RE Boka people..this is open to debate..are they Serb?? are they Croat???...that was ancient history...today Boka is Montenegrin and so are the people...Please don't devide our people with ancient origins. If you look back enough we all came from Africa or Adama and Eve right... We don't need Serb or Croat Pov here thanks..
Evergreen Montenegro1 05:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
Some users like illir_or crnagora are manupilatin this whole descussion here. They aren't real Montenegrins they are some albanians, wich want to provite of the Montenegrin Independance. Check them profiles too. They are thankfull to NATO and the US for killing our people with munition with uranium. Much people still has cancer, and still dies. Was it worth to attach Serbia and Montenegro and to kill unquilte Serb and Montenegrin people? NO!!! The answer is NO!! And these guys support that some pratices in the world. Well how will they think about an attack @ albania or kosovo albanian people? Will they support NATO and the US then too? I don't think so. You can see it at crnagora's/illr_pz writing style some of these two says in these discussion next is kosovo. This article goes NOT ABOUT KOSOVO. The UN have already said they don't look at the Montenegrin Independance results for a decide for KOSOVO. Boka is of Montenegro, and always it will be. People here say Boka and Hercegovina are officialy part of Bosna and Hercegovina. False! Before the ottomans came in the Balkans in Bosna and Hercegovina, the most and greatest population were Orthodox Serbs, Montenegrins or other Katholice people. After ottomans time, most of these people where being transformed in islamic people,or did it by hiselfs.
Now the most (muslim) Bosniaks say, boka is an opart of BiH. Wuahaha what an good joke. Before the ottomans montenegro had already an great part of boka in hands.
Who are the real Montenegrins? Orthodox people that came from Kosovo (not always from Kosovo)centuries ago....and always lived in Monetnegro. Montenegro is an Orthodox state and you can see it at and by our flag.
That simbol stands for an Orthodox community too. Slovenians, albanians and Croation people can say im real Montenegrin but they're not.
Much bosniaks in Montenegro or albanians vote for independance. Many of these people without an Montenegrin nationality. They vote with only Licna Karta. These is not correctly in my eyes.
Without all these people we were't independance of Serbia. Yes im a real Orthodox Montenegrin that don't support these situation.
Excuse me for my bad english, im trying still to learn it.
Montenegrin parliament today at 20.00 proclaimed Indipendent state of Montenegro - it is official! I hope that now people won't revert page to earlier "Serbia and Montenegro" version, because it cannot anymore be justified by reason "idnependence not declared" and "results of referendum not official".
Possible reason by nostalgic people might be "not internationally recgognized", but that fact does not put Montenegro back to Serbia and Montenegro. No more excuses... Nije bitno... 19:06, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
-- 84.153.55.216 19:17, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
I changed the location in the first paragraph from "country in the Balkans" to "country in southeastern Europe" as I think this is the better form for the article. Balkans is a well known term in the English world but its geographic meaning is not all that well known. Most articles on European countries give the country location in Europe and all use the word Europe in the first one or two sentences. There are many people who have no idea that the Balkans refers to a place in Europe (beleive it or not), not to mention the many people who have no idea where in Europe the region is. Southeastern Europe is the better form to indicate position and continent of the country. I looked at the articles for some of Montenegro's neighbours and they also tend to use the form ".... Europe" in their introductions and not simply Balkans. Just trying to avoid an edit war over something so minor and would like to know if or why somebody maybe dissagrees. -- 84.153.55.216 19:44, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Why is Balkans an offensive term? It's mainly a geographical term for the peninsula in southeastern Europe named for the main mountain range in the area. Does it have a subversive meaning I'm not familiar with? 82.2.161.242 21:04, 3 June 2006 (UTC)
Now that the Montenegrin parliament has officially proclaimed the independence of Montenegro, may other countries already start recognizing it? I suggest the creation of an article containing a list of countries as they recognize Montenegro. I've seen that before for other newborn countries.
Sure.
See here for the first mention in the article of Montenegro being internationally recognized. I've been browsing the State Department website to see when the U.S. will recognize CG, but I can't find anything. - Fsotrain09 19:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Should there be a wikipedia article on anti-Montenegrin sentiment now since there are articles about anti-Croatian sentiment, anti-Bosniak sentiment, and anti-Serbian sentiment?
hahahahahaha - u r so right!!! we're irresistible- Jelena
The three Balkan anti-pages are just pitiful examples of playing the victim and trying to label all criticism of the own ethnic group as something akin to anti-Semitism. Sure, som Crots, Serbs and Bosnian Muslims hate each other and try to put each other down, but that doesn't mean it's some kind of institutionalized ideology. Heck, Norwegians and Danes have jokes about us Swedes (and vice versa), but we don't go off writing long articles about anti-Swedish sentiment.
Osli73 12:30, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Some! There was a wart with thousands killed. alot of these people hate each other
it's no newer than Serbia.
This is less widely discussed on: Talk:Serbia#Now_we.27ll_have_to_change_all_the_maps_that_dont_include_the_border_between_Serbia_and_Montenegro
-- Greasysteve13 09:37, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
There was Namibia somewhere in between there........... Canuckguy 00:36, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I've changed the location maps (in the infoboxes of country pages) for most countries in Europe and the Middle East that show the border. Did it by copying the border from LocationMontenegro.PNG to other pics in MS Paint. I was unable to fix the border for some small countries (San Marino, Liechtenstein) that have a 'zoomed-in' view in the map, and I might have missed a few. Rain74 17:19, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
-- Greasysteve13 11:57, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
This is the "First" time i heard that Bosnia is claiming Boka region in Montenegro. Good luck hahhaa Bosnia can claim Boka like a Bosnian can claim inventing Pizza. No chance. 1,0000000 to 1 chance. Boka region was once part of Croatia and had a big Croat population prior to 1910. Today things have changed and Croats are long gone and in came the Serbs....and lest we forget Montenegrings have always been there. So I can't see Bosnia claiming Boka in anyway. Unless maybe they are saying Bosnian Croats.....well thats another long debate.... Evergreen Montenegro1 06:13, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Wuahaha they claming Boka so what? But we never will give it to them. An invasion will have an massive reaction to montenegrin people and they will come up to protect there father / motherland.
@ Evergreen Montenegro1: You know history very bad. Boka was never Croatian, it was Montengrian and Serbian from 6 century. I would also like to add that whole Dalmatia never was Croatian till nowadays. They had Dalmatia till Makarska. Further was Serbian land. It is wellknown, for example that tzar Dusan Silni gifted Dubrovnik with Konavle, etc.
CrnaGora im not talking about "ethnic" Montenegrins...but im talking abpout real Montenegrins before 1918....in the time of King Nikola and Petar Petrovic Njegos 1 & 2. That are real Montenegrins that brought my beautiful land like we know it now.
You say you're just 5% Albanian. Succes but it's not possible to be just only 5% Albanian. Or one of both of your parents are albanian. You can only be or 100% albanian (living in Montenegro) or 75% or 50% or 25% but not 5%.
That your most articles goes about Montenegro that doesn't mather. I can write a lot of propaganda about albania in the wikipedia about albania but that don't make me albanian.
Im sorry to say but for most Montenegrin people you be still and for always an siptar.
Even another subject:
When Montenegro (21 may 2006) became indenpendance there where siptars (they say they're Montenegrin) celebrating Montenegrins independance with albanian flags!!!??? Sorry but what the f**k does albanians and theyre flags have with Montenegrin victory?! Celebrating is good with only Montenegrin flags but not with siptar and albanian flags. Thats not acceptable.....you can see it like claming Plav and Ulcinj. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.126.152.198 ( talk • contribs) 19:36, 6 June 2006
Im answering to CrnaGora's....questions and comments. If jou believe it or not but there are here more thing that are not correctable by the wikipedia rules. Im just a user like you....and this here is an discussion board. Not the information page about Montenegro. Im just trying to realize people that most users here manupilating these wole information page by their own ideas, rules and etc.
You say: if you don't like it, change it. I can change it but there will always somebody be that will change it to hes own idea's. Im just changing something because it's the truth, because it are the faits. No lies. It's no personal attack against the wiki user CrnaGora, i just want to view you all these user hase reasons to manupilate this wiki to his own ideas.
Technically dude, that is a personal attack to CrnaGora if you read your first post on this header. Milo 08:49, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I added a link to the article concerning the foreign relations of Montenegro, where I just included a table listing the countries that have granted recognition to Montenegro. So far only Iceland has. As the recognitions increase, please help me keeping the table up-to-date.
I just think that naming a state "looser" is POV except when describing for instance a sporting event. Shouldn't it be changed? 'Course I'm new to Wiki so I might be comletely wrong :) TheLigerGirl 00:06, 9 June 2006 (UTC)TheLigerGirl
Oh God, I'm terribly sorry, I just thought that looser was a spelling mistake of loser completely forgetting it has a meaning of its own. Sorry TheLigerGirl 08:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)TheLigerGirl
We list these as separate ethnic groups. What's the difference between them? john k 14:17, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't think there is much difference except that Bosniaks originate from Sandžak, while Slavic Muslims originate from Slavic coutnrues, hence the name "Slavic Muslims", but most Bosniaks are technically Slavic Muslims if you think about it. Milo 08:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
What rubbish! The difference is in self-identification and nothing more. -- estavisti 00:38, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Not to be pedantic, but wouldn't the first country to recognize Montenegro's independence actually have been Serbia? -- Jfruh ( talk) 22:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Why is there still a Serbia And Montenegor team? If they won,who would get credit? Dudtz 6/12/06 6:52 PM EST
From the article: "The European Union and the United States recognised Montenegro on June 12, as have various member states of the EU and other European countries."
If the EU as a whole recognized Montenegro, is it necessary (legally) for every EU member state to recognize it independently of the EU recognition? ☆ CieloEstrellado 23:55, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Is this edit accurate? -- Telex 13:07, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Anybody have a source for that? The Tom 22:55, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
Montenegro became de facto independent in 1042 after battle of Bar,and it was recognised by Pope as Kingdom of Doclea (old name for Montenegro) in 1077. Also, it was unified (anexed) by Serbia on 26 November of 1918,there is no reason for puting this 1917. date.
While I realise that the euro is Montenegro's de facto currency, is it also their currency de jure. That is to say: (I know the EU doesn't have an agreement with them) are there laws within Montenegro which name the euro as legal tender (people and businesses are obliged to accept it as means of payment) - Рэд хот 16:44, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi,
In Hong Kong public (newspaper and TV news), we called it 黑山. But only in textbook and in public examination such as HKCEE and HKALE, we called it 門特尼哥羅.
Souce: Prepared by the Curriculum Development Council, Issued by the Hong Kong Education Departement in 1991.
by Pentium Kwok, Hong Kong 17 June, 2006
I have heard that the Montenegro declared war on Japan along with some of their allies (I think Russia), and also that peace was never officialy declared. Is this true?
No, I'm not talking about that. I think that one of their kings or rulers or whatever declared war on Japan just becouse Russia did so. It was both before World War II and World War I. That war was only war on the paper, as there was no fighting at all. However peace still hasn't officialy been declared... Adamantum 22:13, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Also, it's impossible for montenegro to have declared war in WW2 because it didn't exist other than a nazi satilite state that nobody recognized.
"Montenegro was recognised as an independent nation by Serbia on June 15"
This sentence mentioned in the first paragraph is ridiculous. Many countries recognised Montenegro as independent, not only Serbia, so why only Serbia is mentioned here? Is that sentence another example of accusing Serbia for territorial expansionism? Why Serbia would not recognise independence of Montenegro? Serbia and Montenegro were two members of the state union and Montenegro had right to become independent and Serbia did not had intentions to deny that right. So, why somebody think that it was important to mention here that Montenegro was recognised as an independent nation by Serbia? I do not think that Serbia would do anything else in this case, and the sentence imply that it would. Thus, I will remove this ridiculous sentence. PANONIAN (talk) 14:57, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I think you're overreacting.
Zazaban 02:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
About 3 quarters of it is just the last 14 years and a huge section is just dealing with about 1 month. come on. Montenegro's history can't be THAT dull!
The current elections for the Montenegrin government are actually the second semester of the Montenegrin referendum. Why is there nothing in the article? Appearently, the Democratic Party of Socialists of Montenegro- Social Democratic Party of Montenegro won 41 mandate in the Republican Assembly; while the Serbian Paper got 12, the Coalition Serbian People's Party of Montenegro- People's Party of Montenegro-[{Democratic Serbian Party of Montenegro]] and the Movemend for Changes each got 11. The Liberal Party of Montengero and the Bosniak Party of Montenegro each got 2, while 1 got the 4 political Albanian factions. -- HolyRomanEmperor 15:22, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
The ISO code, and therefore Wikipedia template, of {{MNE}} is now official =)
I have found a number of maps that do not show the Serbian-Montenegrin border: [19] [20] [21]
And also some maps at [22]. ( Stefan2 13:20, 6 October 2006 (UTC))
This talk page is waaaay too big. Zazaban 18:19, 8 October 2006 (UTC)