This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 |
For the archive, these sources have been cleared at WP:RSN for non-controversial use in this and in one case a related article. Also WikiProject Radio said Radio Locator is possibly all right and I couldn't get an alternative after Nielsen closed off the page we needed.
User:AuH2ORepublican, thank you for your contributions. I reverted your changes per MOS:US and MOS:RACECAPS. This article has established style and you overrode that. Best wishes, SusanLesch ( talk) 21:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
There is a lot of content using self-citations, eg:
Sources
|
---|
|
What is the criteria for deciding things like this are to be included, if there are not secondary mentions of their significance? Check throughout needed ... SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:18, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
What is this trying to say (I can't decipher):
Is it ... ?
? SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:31, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
I believe that the current wording of Minneapolis' demographic history is convoluted and difficult to understand. I have attempted to simplify it without eliminating any information, but I would appreciate your feedback before making any changes. Please let me know what you think.
Update: I've decided to add some suggestions on things I think should be added or cut. Additions are underlined, while cuts are struckout.
Current text | Revised text |
---|---|
Dakota tribes, mostly the Mdewakanton, occupied the area of present-day Minneapolis when European Americans pushed west. In the 1840s, new settlers came from Maine, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts. French-Canadians came about this same time, and farmers from Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania began secondary migration. A small fraction of the populace, settlers from New England had an outsized influence on civic life. | The Minneapolis area was originally occupied by Dakota tribes, particularly the Mdewakanton, until European Americans moved westward. In the 1840s, new settlers arrived from Maine, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts, while French-Canadians also came around the same time. Farmers from Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania later followed in a secondary migration. |
While few then lived in the state year around, migrant workers from Mexico came to Minnesota as early as 1860. Latinos settled in the city's Phillips, Whittier, Longfellow and Northeast neighborhoods. Just before the turn of the 21st century, Latinos were the state's largest group of immigrants, as well as the fastest growing. Settlers from Sweden, Norway, and Denmark found harmony in the Republican and Protestant belief systems of the migrants from New England who preceded them. After the Civil War, Irish, Scots and English immigrated, followed by Germans and Jews from Central and Eastern Europe, and Russia. Italians and Greeks first came to Minneapolis in the 1890s and 1900s. Slovak and Czech immigrants lived in the Bohemian Flats alongside the Mississippi's west bank. After 1900, Ukrainians arrived, and Central European migrants settled in the Northeast neighborhood. | Mexican migrant workers began coming to Minnesota as early as 1860, although few stayed year-round. Latinos eventually settled in several neighborhoods in Minneapolis, including Phillips, Whittier, Longfellow, and Northeast, becoming the state's largest and fastest-growing group of immigrants just before the turn of the 21st century. Settlers from Sweden, Norway, and Denmark found common ground with the Republican and Protestant belief systems of the New England migrants who preceded them, while Irish, Scots, and English immigrants arrived after the Civil War. Germans and Jews from Central and Eastern Europe, as well as Russia, followed. Minneapolis welcomed Italians and Greeks in the 1890s and 1900s, and Slovak and Czech immigrants settled in the Bohemian Flats area on the west bank of the Mississippi. Ukrainians arrived after 1900, and Central European migrants made their homes in the Northeast neighborhood. |
Facing under President Chester A. Arthur the first-ever US government ban of a specific ethnic group, Chinese began immigration in the 1870s. Moved from San Francisco, Japanese Americans worked for Camp Savage, a secret military Japanese-language school that trained interpreters and translators. After World War II, some Japanese and Japanese Americans remained in Minneapolis and in 1970, they numbered nearly two thousand—at the time, part of the state's largest Asian-American ethnic group. Around 1970, Koreans came and the first Filipinos arrived to attend the University of Minnesota. Arriving around 1975, Vietnamese; Hmong, some from Thailand; Lao; and Cambodians settled mainly in Saint Paul, and some of their organizations formed in Minneapolis. In 1992, 160 Tibetan immigrants came to Minnesota; many live in the city's Whittier neighborhood.People came from Burma in the early 2000s, many becoming secondary immigrants to Greater Minnesota. The largest concentration living in the state, the Minneapolis population of people from India increased by 1,000 between 2000 and 2010. | |
During the 1950s, the US government relocated Native Americans to cities like Minneapolis, attempting to do away with Indian reservations.
The population of Minneapolis grew until 1950 when the census peaked at 521,718—the only time it has exceeded a half million. The population then declined for decades; after World War II, people moved to the suburbs, and generally out of the Midwest. Migrating from Missouri, Arkansas, and Illinois, eight Black families lived in Minneapolis in 1857. In 1910, Minneapolis had about 2,500 Black residents. In 1930, Minneapolis Blacks were among the nation's most literate (1.7 percent of Blacks over 10 years of age could not read and write, compared to the national average of 16.3 percent). Nevertheless, discrimination against Blacks excluded them from all but the lowest paying jobs. In 1935, Cecil Newman and the Minneapolis Spokesman led a year-long consumer boycott of four area breweries that refused to hire Blacks.Employment, but not housing, improved during World War II. Between 1950 and 1970, the Black population of Minneapolis increased by 436 percent. After the Rust Belt economy declined during the early 1980s, Black migrants were drawn to the Minneapolis area by its abundance of jobs, good schools, and relatively safe neighborhoods. Beginning in the 1990s, immigrants came from the Horn of Africa, especially Somalia;however, Somali immigration slowed after a 2017 executive order from President Donald Trump. As of 2019, more than 20,000 Somalis live in Minneapolis. |
In the 1950s, Native Americans were relocated to cities, including Minneapolis, as the US government attempted to eliminate Indian reservations. The population of Minneapolis reached its peak in 1950 with 521,718 residents, but began to decline in subsequent decades as people moved to the suburbs and out of the Midwest.
|
In Minneapolis, African Americans comprise approximately 20% of the population as of 2020. However, a Black family's annual income is less than half of that earned by a White family, and they own homes at a rate one-third that of White families. In 2018, the median income for a Black family was $36,000, which is $47,000 less than a White family's median income. This income gap is one of the largest in the country, with Black Minneapolitans earning only about 44% of what White Minneapolitans earn annually. | In Minneapolis, African Americans comprise approximately 20% of the population as of 2020. However, a Black family's annual income is less than half of that earned by a White family, and they own homes at a rate one-third that of White families. In 2018, the median income for a Black family was $36,000, which is $47,000 less than a White family's median income. This income gap is one of the largest in the country, with Black Minneapolitans earning only about 44% of what White Minneapolitans earn annually. |
In 2020 based on Gallup data, UCLA's Williams Institute reported the Twin Cities had an estimated LGBT adult population of 4.2%, the 18th-highest number of LGBT residents of the 50 largest metropolitan areas in the US, and did not rank by percent. Human Rights Campaign gave Minneapolis its highest-possible score in 2022. | The Williams Institute reported that the Twin Cities had an estimated 4.2% LGBT adult population in 2020. In 2022, the Human Rights Campaign gave Minneapolis its highest score possible. |
According to the 2020 US census, the population of Minneapolis was 429,954. Hispanic or Latino comprised 44,513 (10.4 percent). Among those not Hispanic or Latino, 249,581 (58.0 percent) were White alone (62.7 percent White alone or in combination), 81,088 (18.9 percent) were Black or African American alone (21.3 percent Black alone or in combination), 24,929 (5.8 percent) were Asian alone, 7,433 (1.2 percent) were American Indian and Alaska Native alone, 25,387 (0.6 percent) some other race alone, and 34,463 (5.2 percent) were multiracial.
According to the 2021 ACS, the most common ancestries were German (22.9 percent), Irish (10.8 percent), Norwegian (8.9 percent), Subsaharan African (6.7 percent), and Swedish (6.1 percent). US veterans made up 3.2 percent of the population. Among those five years and older, 81.2 percent spoke only English at home, while 7.1 percent spoke Spanish and 11.7 percent spoke other languages, including large numbers of Somali and Hmong speakers. Those born abroad made up 13.7 percent of the population, 53.2 percent of whom were naturalized US citizens. The most common regions from which immigrants arrived were Africa (40.6 percent), Asia (24.6 percent), and Latin America (25.2 percent). 34.6 percent of all foreign-born residents had arrived in 2010 or earlier. The 2021 ACS found the median household income in Minneapolis was $69,397. For families it was $97,670, married couples $123,693, and non-family households $54,083. The census found that 15.0 percent lived in poverty. Residents who had obtained a bachelor's degree or higher made up 53.6 percent of the population, and 92.1 percent had at least a high school degree. The median gross rent in Minneapolis was $1,225. The homeownership rate was 49.8 percent, much lower than the overall state rate (73.0 percent). The survey found that 92.7 percent of housing units in Minneapolis were occupied, and 43.7 percent of housing units in the city were built in 1939 or earlier. |
Based on the 2020 US census, the population of Minneapolis was 429,954, with Hispanic or Latino people comprising 10.4 percent or 44,513 people. Among those who were not Hispanic or Latino, 249,581 people (58.0 percent) were White alone, 81,088 people (18.9 percent) were Black or African American alone, 24,929 people (5.8 percent) were Asian alone, 7,433 people (1.2 percent) were American Indian and Alaska Native alone, 25,387 people (0.6 percent) belonged to some other race alone, and 34,463 people (5.2 percent) were multiracial.
The most common ancestries in Minneapolis according to the 2021 ACS were German (22.9 percent), Irish (10.8 percent), Norwegian (8.9 percent), Subsaharan African (6.7 percent), and Swedish (6.1 percent). Among those aged five years and older, 81.2 percent spoke only English at home, while 7.1 percent spoke Spanish and 11.7 percent spoke other languages, including large numbers of Somali and Hmong speakers. About 13.7 percent of the population was born abroad, with 53.2 percent of them being naturalized US citizens. Most immigrants arrived from Africa (40.6 percent), Asia (24.6 percent), and Latin America (25.2 percent), with 34.6 percent of all foreign-born residents having arrived in 2010 or earlier. The 2021 ACS reported that the median household income in Minneapolis was $69,397, while for families, it was $97,670. The median income for married couples was $123,693, and for non-family households, it was $54,083. The census found that 15.0 percent of residents lived in poverty. The percentage of residents who had obtained a bachelor's degree or higher was 53.6 percent, and 92.1 percent had at least a high school degree. The median gross rent in Minneapolis was $1,225, and the homeownership rate was 49.8 percent, much lower than the overall state rate of 73.0 percent. The survey found that 92.7 percent of housing units in Minneapolis were occupied, and 43.7 percent of housing units in the city were built in 1939 or earlier. |
The indigenous Dakota people believed in the Great Spirit, and were surprised that not all European settlers were religious. More than 50 denominations and religions are present in Minneapolis; a majority of the city's population are Christian. Settlers who arrived from New England were for the most part Protestants, Quakers, and Universalists. The oldest continuously used church, Our Lady of Lourdes Catholic Church, was built in 1856 by Universalists and soon afterward was acquired by a French Catholic congregation.The first Jewish congregation was formed in 1878 as Shaarai Tov, and built Temple Israel in 1928. St. Mary's Orthodox Cathedral was founded in 1887; it opened a missionary school and created the first Russian Orthodox seminary in the U.S. Edwin Hawley Hewitt designed St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral and Hennepin Avenue United Methodist Church, both of which are located south of downtown. The Basilica of Saint Mary, the first basilica in the US and co-cathedral of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis, was named by Pope Pius XI in 1926.
By 1959, a Temple of Islam was located in north Minneapolis, and the Islamic Center of Minnesota was established in 1965. Somalis who live in Minneapolis are primarily Sunni Muslim. Minneapolis became the first major American city to publicly broadcast the Muslim call to prayer after March 2022, when the city council approved a resolution to allow it. In 1971, a reported 150 persons attended classes at a Hindu temple near the university. In 1972, a relief agency resettled the first Shi'a Muslim family from Uganda in the Twin Cities. The city has about seven Buddhist centers and meditation centers. The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association was headquartered in Minneapolis from about 1950 until 2001. Christ Church Lutheran in the Longfellow neighborhood was the final work in the career of Eliel Saarinen, and has an education building designed by his son Eero. |
St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral and Hennepin Avenue United Methodist Church, both designed by Edwin Hawley Hewitt, are located south of downtown. The Basilica of Saint Mary, the first basilica in the US and co-cathedral of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis, was designated as such by Pope Pius XI in 1926. In 1959, a Temple of Islam was established in north Minneapolis, and in 1965 the Islamic Center of Minnesota was founded. The Somali community in Minneapolis is primarily Sunni Muslim. In March 2022, Minneapolis became the first major US city to publicly broadcast the Muslim call to prayer after the city council approved a resolution to allow it. In 1971, a Hindu temple near the university saw around 150 persons attend classes. The first Shi'a Muslim family from Uganda was resettled in the Twin Cities by a relief agency in 1972. There are currently about seven Buddhist centers and meditation centers in Minneapolis. The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association was headquartered in Minneapolis from 1950 to 2001. Christ Church Lutheran in the Longfellow neighborhood, the final work of Eliel Saarinen, has an education building designed by his son Eero. |
Svenskbygderna ( talk) 04:02, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Chinese immigration to Minneapolis started in the 1870s. However, it was significantly curtailed just a decade later with the enactment of the Chinese Exclusion Act.I think we can omit the President Arthur's name from the sentence.
Chinese began immigration in the 1870s. [1] Minneapolis had no Chinatown, and Chinese businesses centered on the Gateway District and Glenwood Avenue. [2] For more than a century beginning in 1880, Westminster Presbyterian Church gave language classes and support for Chinese Americans in Minneapolis, many of whom had fled discrimination in western states. [3]- SusanLesch ( talk) 21:08, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
Please see what you think, Svenskbygderna. Your introduction of the non-religious group was striking and very helpful.
I'd like a comment from SandyGeorgia on the religion section because she has mentioned the Demographics section flow overall. Where sources do not exist at the city level, we have worked in national, state, and metro area numbers. However note that specifics are strictly for the city. All are cited and follow Pew Research nicely. Without the country and metro level research it is impossible to make any general statements (like, the city is "majority Christian") that Svenskbygderna tried to add to make this section readable. Are we all right now? - SusanLesch ( talk) 15:20, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
Another question for Sandy who may be traveling at the moment. What is the preferred way to link within references? I like to use author-link but not links for every publication and organization. This method will leave some people and things out. Is it better to have some links or better to have none?
I think we are probably ready for the next step. You have been more than patient with this article. Thank you, SandyGeorgia. - SusanLesch ( talk) 20:16, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
@ SusanLesch: Let me think... Well, the article misses a couple of "firsts", such as the first bridge across the Mississippi, and the first mail-order catalog (from Sears in Minneapolis). The first European to see Niagara Falls was also the first to see Minneapolis, and Sound 80 made the first-ever digital recording (it now operates the Guinness Record "quietest place on earth"). And Brave New Workshop is the oldest sketch and comedy improve in the US.
Speaking of water, (Minne is Sioux for "water" and polis is Greek for "city")...Saint Anthony Falls is the only waterfall on the Mississippi River, and six percent of the city is covered in water, the most for any large US city (my original research).
The cuisine section has no photo (has there been discussion about photos in this section?) How about a picture of the Bundt cake, or the Honeycrisp apple, or the Milky Way chocolate bar? I mean, holy cow!! (an expression started by Halsey Hall in Minneapolis).
Most important, there's no mention of the interesting street names along Broadway here, and the plan to add Trump (I forgot the date of approval, do you know it?)
Seriously, it looks great. Thank you for your hard work! Magnolia677 ( talk) 18:03, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
Magnolia677, If you would step up to do the work, that would be helpful. Some of this can be done, others not likely.
In 2012, the anechoic chamber at Orfield Labs measured −13 decibels, [1] and the company has applied to Guinness World Records with a −24.9 decibel measurement as of 2022. [2]
- SusanLesch ( talk) 03:54, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
References
@ Magnolia677: in Minnesota, attorneys in 23 cities donate their time to remove covenants from real estate deeds. In their story about Mapping Prejudice, Bloomberg CityLab compares Minneapolis with areas nationwide: "What is exceptional about Minneapolis is its efforts to reckon with its history of discrimination." The law (PDF) allowing covenant removal passed the Minnesota legislature with one dissent. It apparently sounds "trivial" to you, and you are correct it is a symbolic gesture—one that is taken seriously in Minneapolis. - SusanLesch ( talk) 15:58, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
I have added an inline tag disputing the following sentence: "Racial covenants and redlining occurred simultaneously, and the effects remain today in housing, income, health care, education, employment, entertainment, and over-policing."
Racial covenants were outlawed in 1953. It is absurd to suggest that "the effects remain today"...of a racist practice outlawed 70 years prior.
Two sources have been cited:
Articles become unbalanced when opinions--opinions-- are presented as objective facts. The root causes of poverty cannot simply be attributed to something outlawed 70 years prior. -- Magnolia677 ( talk) 18:04, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
@ Magnolia677: You're correct the cited page from the city doesn't mention redlining and covenants but the 2040 plan most certainly does. The city prepared a PDF on that subject. I apologize, my citation was developed to support the statement that Minneapolis "has racial disparities in every aspect of society." I accept your correction to "several," however now my citation makes no sense. I put this paragraph in my sandbox and am working to improve it.
The past three years have seen a number of editors take exception with any indication that the city has problems with structural racism. I'll be happy when we can agree on an acceptable explanation. Your edits helped greatly, thank you. - SusanLesch ( talk) 21:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
the most racist city in the US. And what is your source? - SusanLesch ( talk) 13:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
@ Buidhe, Hog Farm, Z1720, and Extraordinary Writ: would you all have a glance in here when you have a moment? This 2007 FA was built at a time when there was a very active Minnesota WikiProject, and just about everything in the state was featured. Most of those editors have moved on, most of the bronze stars have been lost, and SusanLesch has tried to save bronze stars without the resources MN articles once had.
This article's pre-FAR work has been going on now for two years, back to Archive 8. The article is greatly improved, but it's been slow going with what I'd call five-for-one (five steps forward then one step backward, with list after list of things to address, which SusanLesch has steadily and cheerfully plugged away at). I've grown too close to the text to see the flaws, and too weary of reading this article. The main question at this stage is should work continue here on talk, or is this getting close enough where a FAR would be the next logical step to bring in more eyes, hopefully towards a seal of approval? A thorough going-over top-to-bottom is needed now, and whether to do more of that on talk or via FAR is the question. Because the article has seen so much re-working, a FAR seal-of-approval would be better than a WP:URFA/2020 "Satisfactory" at this stage, IMO. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:47, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
I'm fairly concerned at the degree of primary sourcing to an organization's own materials that is going on in the arts and culture section. How do we know that something is actually significant unless we source it to third-party RS? I've noticed hints of boosterism in Minnesota articles before, so I think that's something to be careful with. Hog Farm Talk 04:12, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Hog Farm and Sandy, ideas welcome. I looked at the other US city FAs (Boston, Cleveland, DC, Ann Arbor). Then I ran through the first couple pages of Minneapolis travel guides at Google Books. Honestly they seem as or more boostery than this article does. I ordered Insiders' Guide® to Twin Cities (2010) by a former Twin Cities Daily Planet editor but really these don't look great:
I have no idea about Greater Than a Tourist and Moon. Frommer's city guide is outdated (1991) and Fodor's mentions the same museums we do in its short three paras. - SusanLesch ( talk) 22:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Reporting in. The past week was spent repairing refs again. We had better get this right because, even after fifteen years, Minneapolis is given as an example at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Cities/US_Guideline#References_/_Notes. This has been a mind-numbing exercise. I have redone every reference in some cases three times. Having an example to follow helped greatly. We started with Britannica. Sandy gave me J. K. Rowling which was kept a year ago, but even so ambiguities crept in. (One pass was to unbundle everything I had carefully bundled.)
We are concerned about self-sourcing. I'm not sure that everyone else is. Looking at featured cities: DC, Boston use self-sourced schools. For schools, Cleveland (I'd say the Cleveland editors did the best job or else they had the best sources available) and Ann Arbor mixed but mostly secondary. Boston has mainly self-sourced hospitals. After going over them twice already, do I need to re-cite the whole second paragraph of colleges? What about magazines? Recent discussion is here. I hope to move to the content issues that Hog Farm found and gave us above. - SusanLesch ( talk) 17:36, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
Sandy and SusanLesch - please ping me when y'all are ready for me to take a look again. Hog Farm Talk 00:57, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:28, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Magnolia677, you wrote: "This article is about a city, not some restaurant owner. The award was for his "trailblazing work with Native cuisine", which has little relevance here except to add puff up the article."
No. That "trailblazing work..." is a photo caption at the Star Tribune. The foundation's press release doesn't mention trailblazing. They do say he got the award for "his outstanding achievements as a chef, educator, author and activist in preserving and celebrating Indigenous food systems." Indigenous means what the dictionary says: "produced, growing, living, or occurring natively or naturally in a particular region or environment," or "relating to the earliest known inhabitants of a place and especially of a place that was colonized by a now-dominant group." That is a place and that place is Minneapolis. It isn't right to step in here and delete indigenous food from Minneapolis when the rest of the world is applauding Sherman. You had no objections to Gavin Kaysen coaching Team USA in the Bocuse d'Or. Please stop your disruptive editing. - SusanLesch ( talk) 23:46, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
The Owamni has its own article. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:28, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Magnolia677, you wrote in your edit summary: Jews were discriminated against by racist housing policies; this is sourced and notable; you have removed this twice, please discuss.
Already addressed. Your response was I don't want to have to do a bunch of research about this.
To repeat:
With the help of a research librarian in Washington, I was able to find a Library of Congress archive to which the Minnesota Historical Society awarded back issues of The American Jewish World. You removed the image of outrage that led to the Cohen law of April 1919, when the state banned religious discrimination in property sales. Are you paying attention here, or maybe preoccupied? - SusanLesch ( talk) 20:30, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
The article makes the extraordinary claim that "The effects of racial covenants remain today in...health equity."
The source cited to support this never once uses the term "health equity". Moreover, the source states that:
Covenants fueled contemporary health inequities. For example, covenants steered investments in green amenities like trees, which determine the air temperature of neighborhoods today. In Minneapolis, areas that had covenants are on average 10 degrees cooler than neighborhoods that were redlined. Excess heat is responsible for at least 6,000 deaths each year in the United States and complicates the management of conditions like hypertension and heart disease.
In other words...because racist housing policies enacted over 70 years ago lead richer parts of the city to have more trees, and because trees lower the air temperature, and because lots and lots of people in the US die each year from excessive heat...therefore, the effects of the covenants remain.
The reliability of this entire source is tainted by such a spurious, unencyclopedic, and unscientific conclusion. Magnolia677 ( talk) 17:43, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
Magnolia, addressing your comments above, these are facts not opinions: please refer to WP:UNENCYCLOPEDIC. I'm afraid calling Mapping Prejudice unscientific is worse. Here are two citations from scientific journals, one in the first quartile, one in the second.
Hi, Thesavagenorwegian. First thank you for your interest. Because your edit pointed out a weakness in mine, I have added a quote from the offline book source, and am sure the article is better for it. I saw your Association of Inclusionists user box so maybe you can help me understand. Now that we have a quote, can you please explain what purpose a second source offers this article? Can you remove it? I don't think we need to include a biography of every person we mention, especially those with Wikipedia articles. I grew up in Minneapolis, and heard there that Theodore Wirth was responsible for the parks. That turns out to be largely untrue (and now I wonder if I should expand the sentence to dispel that idea). Maybe you will have other suggestions, which are most welcome. Best wishes. - SusanLesch ( talk) 13:34, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Today, many Minneapolitans think of Wirth as the man who created the Minneapolis park system. In fact, he did not—but he greatly improved it. He inherited a park system that already included most of the shores of the city's lakes, creek and river. The lakeshores that were not yet owned by the park board were in various stages of acquisition or had been ardently promoted for more than a decade before his arrival.... Although Wirth is often given credit for this expansion of the park system, he was a reluctant supporter of some of the new acquisitions. Wirth said when he arrived in Minneapolis that the city already had enough park land.The source of this quote is the philanthropic arm of the Minneapolis park board, and is thus unlikely to be inaccurate (the board's commissioners reviewed it and submitted their changes). - SusanLesch ( talk) 17:25, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
The crux of my edit is the fact that online sources are in general preferable to offline ones.I'm not sure where that is coming from; it leaves out "all other things being equal". In FAs, what matters is that the highest quality sources are used, whether off or online. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 14:54, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
@ SandyGeorgia: Can we please start a FAR this week? We've worked on this for three years, and I would like to wrap this up. I am home now with my books. I can't explain the absence of the other Minnesota editors. ( Elkman is overdue but busy at work.)
- SusanLesch ( talk) 20:17, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
Magnolia677, I reverted your edit because it reduced the prose to one cause and effect of "dwindling logs" without explaining why that happened. Lass is a good source for lumbermen depleting Minnesota's forests and I'll look again tomorrow for more support for this one sentence. Thank you. - SusanLesch ( talk) 02:52, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
SandyGeorgia, acting on your advice, I think the citations are internally consistent. Here are my notes:
If they look okay, we're ready for wider review. - SusanLesch ( talk) 17:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
I'm not about to argue with User:Citation bot, but this pass does not make sense given the advice here. I patiently changed every cite news to "work" and now the bot wants "newspaper". No way am I going through this all again. - SusanLesch ( talk) 18:00, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
@
636Buster: Hi. Thank you for improving the map. To explain my revert, please see the request at
FAR: I know that newer style of interactive map has its benefits, but is there any way to also show the reader at a glance where Minneapolis is located in the country, rather than making them get into the interactive map, fiddle with the zoom system which is kinda balky on mobile, and then try to figure out that information?
. My apologies for the late reply, busy IRL. Hope this explains. Best wishes,
SusanLesch (
talk) 18:20, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
User:SusanLesch continues to revert efforts to remove the following:
My concerns with this edit are:
The input of others would be appreciated.
References
Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:44, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
If any major motion pictures, television shows, or syndicated radio broadcasts were filmed/recorded or originated in the city, this would probably be a good place to put that information.Thus the show belongs in Media. - SusanLesch ( talk) 02:26, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
For our archive, this article about Blue Zones and their critics appears to be written by a real journalist. [1]
P.S. DeWitt says that Buettner sold Blue Zones to Adventist Health in 2020.
References
A new documentary, The Fall of Minneapolis, is getting a lot of media attention (it's free to watch online). This may be a source of content going forward. Magnolia677 ( talk) 21:18, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Very sorry, I made one disastrous edit (meant only to change a single word). After starting to ask for help at the Village Pump I realized my error. Taking the rest of the night off. - SusanLesch ( talk) 01:06, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 9 | Archive 10 | Archive 11 |
For the archive, these sources have been cleared at WP:RSN for non-controversial use in this and in one case a related article. Also WikiProject Radio said Radio Locator is possibly all right and I couldn't get an alternative after Nielsen closed off the page we needed.
User:AuH2ORepublican, thank you for your contributions. I reverted your changes per MOS:US and MOS:RACECAPS. This article has established style and you overrode that. Best wishes, SusanLesch ( talk) 21:38, 8 May 2023 (UTC)
There is a lot of content using self-citations, eg:
Sources
|
---|
|
What is the criteria for deciding things like this are to be included, if there are not secondary mentions of their significance? Check throughout needed ... SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:18, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
What is this trying to say (I can't decipher):
Is it ... ?
? SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:31, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
I believe that the current wording of Minneapolis' demographic history is convoluted and difficult to understand. I have attempted to simplify it without eliminating any information, but I would appreciate your feedback before making any changes. Please let me know what you think.
Update: I've decided to add some suggestions on things I think should be added or cut. Additions are underlined, while cuts are struckout.
Current text | Revised text |
---|---|
Dakota tribes, mostly the Mdewakanton, occupied the area of present-day Minneapolis when European Americans pushed west. In the 1840s, new settlers came from Maine, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts. French-Canadians came about this same time, and farmers from Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania began secondary migration. A small fraction of the populace, settlers from New England had an outsized influence on civic life. | The Minneapolis area was originally occupied by Dakota tribes, particularly the Mdewakanton, until European Americans moved westward. In the 1840s, new settlers arrived from Maine, New Hampshire, and Massachusetts, while French-Canadians also came around the same time. Farmers from Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, and Pennsylvania later followed in a secondary migration. |
While few then lived in the state year around, migrant workers from Mexico came to Minnesota as early as 1860. Latinos settled in the city's Phillips, Whittier, Longfellow and Northeast neighborhoods. Just before the turn of the 21st century, Latinos were the state's largest group of immigrants, as well as the fastest growing. Settlers from Sweden, Norway, and Denmark found harmony in the Republican and Protestant belief systems of the migrants from New England who preceded them. After the Civil War, Irish, Scots and English immigrated, followed by Germans and Jews from Central and Eastern Europe, and Russia. Italians and Greeks first came to Minneapolis in the 1890s and 1900s. Slovak and Czech immigrants lived in the Bohemian Flats alongside the Mississippi's west bank. After 1900, Ukrainians arrived, and Central European migrants settled in the Northeast neighborhood. | Mexican migrant workers began coming to Minnesota as early as 1860, although few stayed year-round. Latinos eventually settled in several neighborhoods in Minneapolis, including Phillips, Whittier, Longfellow, and Northeast, becoming the state's largest and fastest-growing group of immigrants just before the turn of the 21st century. Settlers from Sweden, Norway, and Denmark found common ground with the Republican and Protestant belief systems of the New England migrants who preceded them, while Irish, Scots, and English immigrants arrived after the Civil War. Germans and Jews from Central and Eastern Europe, as well as Russia, followed. Minneapolis welcomed Italians and Greeks in the 1890s and 1900s, and Slovak and Czech immigrants settled in the Bohemian Flats area on the west bank of the Mississippi. Ukrainians arrived after 1900, and Central European migrants made their homes in the Northeast neighborhood. |
Facing under President Chester A. Arthur the first-ever US government ban of a specific ethnic group, Chinese began immigration in the 1870s. Moved from San Francisco, Japanese Americans worked for Camp Savage, a secret military Japanese-language school that trained interpreters and translators. After World War II, some Japanese and Japanese Americans remained in Minneapolis and in 1970, they numbered nearly two thousand—at the time, part of the state's largest Asian-American ethnic group. Around 1970, Koreans came and the first Filipinos arrived to attend the University of Minnesota. Arriving around 1975, Vietnamese; Hmong, some from Thailand; Lao; and Cambodians settled mainly in Saint Paul, and some of their organizations formed in Minneapolis. In 1992, 160 Tibetan immigrants came to Minnesota; many live in the city's Whittier neighborhood.People came from Burma in the early 2000s, many becoming secondary immigrants to Greater Minnesota. The largest concentration living in the state, the Minneapolis population of people from India increased by 1,000 between 2000 and 2010. | |
During the 1950s, the US government relocated Native Americans to cities like Minneapolis, attempting to do away with Indian reservations.
The population of Minneapolis grew until 1950 when the census peaked at 521,718—the only time it has exceeded a half million. The population then declined for decades; after World War II, people moved to the suburbs, and generally out of the Midwest. Migrating from Missouri, Arkansas, and Illinois, eight Black families lived in Minneapolis in 1857. In 1910, Minneapolis had about 2,500 Black residents. In 1930, Minneapolis Blacks were among the nation's most literate (1.7 percent of Blacks over 10 years of age could not read and write, compared to the national average of 16.3 percent). Nevertheless, discrimination against Blacks excluded them from all but the lowest paying jobs. In 1935, Cecil Newman and the Minneapolis Spokesman led a year-long consumer boycott of four area breweries that refused to hire Blacks.Employment, but not housing, improved during World War II. Between 1950 and 1970, the Black population of Minneapolis increased by 436 percent. After the Rust Belt economy declined during the early 1980s, Black migrants were drawn to the Minneapolis area by its abundance of jobs, good schools, and relatively safe neighborhoods. Beginning in the 1990s, immigrants came from the Horn of Africa, especially Somalia;however, Somali immigration slowed after a 2017 executive order from President Donald Trump. As of 2019, more than 20,000 Somalis live in Minneapolis. |
In the 1950s, Native Americans were relocated to cities, including Minneapolis, as the US government attempted to eliminate Indian reservations. The population of Minneapolis reached its peak in 1950 with 521,718 residents, but began to decline in subsequent decades as people moved to the suburbs and out of the Midwest.
|
In Minneapolis, African Americans comprise approximately 20% of the population as of 2020. However, a Black family's annual income is less than half of that earned by a White family, and they own homes at a rate one-third that of White families. In 2018, the median income for a Black family was $36,000, which is $47,000 less than a White family's median income. This income gap is one of the largest in the country, with Black Minneapolitans earning only about 44% of what White Minneapolitans earn annually. | In Minneapolis, African Americans comprise approximately 20% of the population as of 2020. However, a Black family's annual income is less than half of that earned by a White family, and they own homes at a rate one-third that of White families. In 2018, the median income for a Black family was $36,000, which is $47,000 less than a White family's median income. This income gap is one of the largest in the country, with Black Minneapolitans earning only about 44% of what White Minneapolitans earn annually. |
In 2020 based on Gallup data, UCLA's Williams Institute reported the Twin Cities had an estimated LGBT adult population of 4.2%, the 18th-highest number of LGBT residents of the 50 largest metropolitan areas in the US, and did not rank by percent. Human Rights Campaign gave Minneapolis its highest-possible score in 2022. | The Williams Institute reported that the Twin Cities had an estimated 4.2% LGBT adult population in 2020. In 2022, the Human Rights Campaign gave Minneapolis its highest score possible. |
According to the 2020 US census, the population of Minneapolis was 429,954. Hispanic or Latino comprised 44,513 (10.4 percent). Among those not Hispanic or Latino, 249,581 (58.0 percent) were White alone (62.7 percent White alone or in combination), 81,088 (18.9 percent) were Black or African American alone (21.3 percent Black alone or in combination), 24,929 (5.8 percent) were Asian alone, 7,433 (1.2 percent) were American Indian and Alaska Native alone, 25,387 (0.6 percent) some other race alone, and 34,463 (5.2 percent) were multiracial.
According to the 2021 ACS, the most common ancestries were German (22.9 percent), Irish (10.8 percent), Norwegian (8.9 percent), Subsaharan African (6.7 percent), and Swedish (6.1 percent). US veterans made up 3.2 percent of the population. Among those five years and older, 81.2 percent spoke only English at home, while 7.1 percent spoke Spanish and 11.7 percent spoke other languages, including large numbers of Somali and Hmong speakers. Those born abroad made up 13.7 percent of the population, 53.2 percent of whom were naturalized US citizens. The most common regions from which immigrants arrived were Africa (40.6 percent), Asia (24.6 percent), and Latin America (25.2 percent). 34.6 percent of all foreign-born residents had arrived in 2010 or earlier. The 2021 ACS found the median household income in Minneapolis was $69,397. For families it was $97,670, married couples $123,693, and non-family households $54,083. The census found that 15.0 percent lived in poverty. Residents who had obtained a bachelor's degree or higher made up 53.6 percent of the population, and 92.1 percent had at least a high school degree. The median gross rent in Minneapolis was $1,225. The homeownership rate was 49.8 percent, much lower than the overall state rate (73.0 percent). The survey found that 92.7 percent of housing units in Minneapolis were occupied, and 43.7 percent of housing units in the city were built in 1939 or earlier. |
Based on the 2020 US census, the population of Minneapolis was 429,954, with Hispanic or Latino people comprising 10.4 percent or 44,513 people. Among those who were not Hispanic or Latino, 249,581 people (58.0 percent) were White alone, 81,088 people (18.9 percent) were Black or African American alone, 24,929 people (5.8 percent) were Asian alone, 7,433 people (1.2 percent) were American Indian and Alaska Native alone, 25,387 people (0.6 percent) belonged to some other race alone, and 34,463 people (5.2 percent) were multiracial.
The most common ancestries in Minneapolis according to the 2021 ACS were German (22.9 percent), Irish (10.8 percent), Norwegian (8.9 percent), Subsaharan African (6.7 percent), and Swedish (6.1 percent). Among those aged five years and older, 81.2 percent spoke only English at home, while 7.1 percent spoke Spanish and 11.7 percent spoke other languages, including large numbers of Somali and Hmong speakers. About 13.7 percent of the population was born abroad, with 53.2 percent of them being naturalized US citizens. Most immigrants arrived from Africa (40.6 percent), Asia (24.6 percent), and Latin America (25.2 percent), with 34.6 percent of all foreign-born residents having arrived in 2010 or earlier. The 2021 ACS reported that the median household income in Minneapolis was $69,397, while for families, it was $97,670. The median income for married couples was $123,693, and for non-family households, it was $54,083. The census found that 15.0 percent of residents lived in poverty. The percentage of residents who had obtained a bachelor's degree or higher was 53.6 percent, and 92.1 percent had at least a high school degree. The median gross rent in Minneapolis was $1,225, and the homeownership rate was 49.8 percent, much lower than the overall state rate of 73.0 percent. The survey found that 92.7 percent of housing units in Minneapolis were occupied, and 43.7 percent of housing units in the city were built in 1939 or earlier. |
The indigenous Dakota people believed in the Great Spirit, and were surprised that not all European settlers were religious. More than 50 denominations and religions are present in Minneapolis; a majority of the city's population are Christian. Settlers who arrived from New England were for the most part Protestants, Quakers, and Universalists. The oldest continuously used church, Our Lady of Lourdes Catholic Church, was built in 1856 by Universalists and soon afterward was acquired by a French Catholic congregation.The first Jewish congregation was formed in 1878 as Shaarai Tov, and built Temple Israel in 1928. St. Mary's Orthodox Cathedral was founded in 1887; it opened a missionary school and created the first Russian Orthodox seminary in the U.S. Edwin Hawley Hewitt designed St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral and Hennepin Avenue United Methodist Church, both of which are located south of downtown. The Basilica of Saint Mary, the first basilica in the US and co-cathedral of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis, was named by Pope Pius XI in 1926.
By 1959, a Temple of Islam was located in north Minneapolis, and the Islamic Center of Minnesota was established in 1965. Somalis who live in Minneapolis are primarily Sunni Muslim. Minneapolis became the first major American city to publicly broadcast the Muslim call to prayer after March 2022, when the city council approved a resolution to allow it. In 1971, a reported 150 persons attended classes at a Hindu temple near the university. In 1972, a relief agency resettled the first Shi'a Muslim family from Uganda in the Twin Cities. The city has about seven Buddhist centers and meditation centers. The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association was headquartered in Minneapolis from about 1950 until 2001. Christ Church Lutheran in the Longfellow neighborhood was the final work in the career of Eliel Saarinen, and has an education building designed by his son Eero. |
St. Mark's Episcopal Cathedral and Hennepin Avenue United Methodist Church, both designed by Edwin Hawley Hewitt, are located south of downtown. The Basilica of Saint Mary, the first basilica in the US and co-cathedral of the Roman Catholic Archdiocese of Saint Paul and Minneapolis, was designated as such by Pope Pius XI in 1926. In 1959, a Temple of Islam was established in north Minneapolis, and in 1965 the Islamic Center of Minnesota was founded. The Somali community in Minneapolis is primarily Sunni Muslim. In March 2022, Minneapolis became the first major US city to publicly broadcast the Muslim call to prayer after the city council approved a resolution to allow it. In 1971, a Hindu temple near the university saw around 150 persons attend classes. The first Shi'a Muslim family from Uganda was resettled in the Twin Cities by a relief agency in 1972. There are currently about seven Buddhist centers and meditation centers in Minneapolis. The Billy Graham Evangelistic Association was headquartered in Minneapolis from 1950 to 2001. Christ Church Lutheran in the Longfellow neighborhood, the final work of Eliel Saarinen, has an education building designed by his son Eero. |
Svenskbygderna ( talk) 04:02, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
Chinese immigration to Minneapolis started in the 1870s. However, it was significantly curtailed just a decade later with the enactment of the Chinese Exclusion Act.I think we can omit the President Arthur's name from the sentence.
Chinese began immigration in the 1870s. [1] Minneapolis had no Chinatown, and Chinese businesses centered on the Gateway District and Glenwood Avenue. [2] For more than a century beginning in 1880, Westminster Presbyterian Church gave language classes and support for Chinese Americans in Minneapolis, many of whom had fled discrimination in western states. [3]- SusanLesch ( talk) 21:08, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
Please see what you think, Svenskbygderna. Your introduction of the non-religious group was striking and very helpful.
I'd like a comment from SandyGeorgia on the religion section because she has mentioned the Demographics section flow overall. Where sources do not exist at the city level, we have worked in national, state, and metro area numbers. However note that specifics are strictly for the city. All are cited and follow Pew Research nicely. Without the country and metro level research it is impossible to make any general statements (like, the city is "majority Christian") that Svenskbygderna tried to add to make this section readable. Are we all right now? - SusanLesch ( talk) 15:20, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
Another question for Sandy who may be traveling at the moment. What is the preferred way to link within references? I like to use author-link but not links for every publication and organization. This method will leave some people and things out. Is it better to have some links or better to have none?
I think we are probably ready for the next step. You have been more than patient with this article. Thank you, SandyGeorgia. - SusanLesch ( talk) 20:16, 9 May 2023 (UTC)
@ SusanLesch: Let me think... Well, the article misses a couple of "firsts", such as the first bridge across the Mississippi, and the first mail-order catalog (from Sears in Minneapolis). The first European to see Niagara Falls was also the first to see Minneapolis, and Sound 80 made the first-ever digital recording (it now operates the Guinness Record "quietest place on earth"). And Brave New Workshop is the oldest sketch and comedy improve in the US.
Speaking of water, (Minne is Sioux for "water" and polis is Greek for "city")...Saint Anthony Falls is the only waterfall on the Mississippi River, and six percent of the city is covered in water, the most for any large US city (my original research).
The cuisine section has no photo (has there been discussion about photos in this section?) How about a picture of the Bundt cake, or the Honeycrisp apple, or the Milky Way chocolate bar? I mean, holy cow!! (an expression started by Halsey Hall in Minneapolis).
Most important, there's no mention of the interesting street names along Broadway here, and the plan to add Trump (I forgot the date of approval, do you know it?)
Seriously, it looks great. Thank you for your hard work! Magnolia677 ( talk) 18:03, 10 May 2023 (UTC)
Magnolia677, If you would step up to do the work, that would be helpful. Some of this can be done, others not likely.
In 2012, the anechoic chamber at Orfield Labs measured −13 decibels, [1] and the company has applied to Guinness World Records with a −24.9 decibel measurement as of 2022. [2]
- SusanLesch ( talk) 03:54, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
References
@ Magnolia677: in Minnesota, attorneys in 23 cities donate their time to remove covenants from real estate deeds. In their story about Mapping Prejudice, Bloomberg CityLab compares Minneapolis with areas nationwide: "What is exceptional about Minneapolis is its efforts to reckon with its history of discrimination." The law (PDF) allowing covenant removal passed the Minnesota legislature with one dissent. It apparently sounds "trivial" to you, and you are correct it is a symbolic gesture—one that is taken seriously in Minneapolis. - SusanLesch ( talk) 15:58, 21 May 2023 (UTC)
I have added an inline tag disputing the following sentence: "Racial covenants and redlining occurred simultaneously, and the effects remain today in housing, income, health care, education, employment, entertainment, and over-policing."
Racial covenants were outlawed in 1953. It is absurd to suggest that "the effects remain today"...of a racist practice outlawed 70 years prior.
Two sources have been cited:
Articles become unbalanced when opinions--opinions-- are presented as objective facts. The root causes of poverty cannot simply be attributed to something outlawed 70 years prior. -- Magnolia677 ( talk) 18:04, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
@ Magnolia677: You're correct the cited page from the city doesn't mention redlining and covenants but the 2040 plan most certainly does. The city prepared a PDF on that subject. I apologize, my citation was developed to support the statement that Minneapolis "has racial disparities in every aspect of society." I accept your correction to "several," however now my citation makes no sense. I put this paragraph in my sandbox and am working to improve it.
The past three years have seen a number of editors take exception with any indication that the city has problems with structural racism. I'll be happy when we can agree on an acceptable explanation. Your edits helped greatly, thank you. - SusanLesch ( talk) 21:59, 26 May 2023 (UTC)
the most racist city in the US. And what is your source? - SusanLesch ( talk) 13:03, 27 May 2023 (UTC)
@ Buidhe, Hog Farm, Z1720, and Extraordinary Writ: would you all have a glance in here when you have a moment? This 2007 FA was built at a time when there was a very active Minnesota WikiProject, and just about everything in the state was featured. Most of those editors have moved on, most of the bronze stars have been lost, and SusanLesch has tried to save bronze stars without the resources MN articles once had.
This article's pre-FAR work has been going on now for two years, back to Archive 8. The article is greatly improved, but it's been slow going with what I'd call five-for-one (five steps forward then one step backward, with list after list of things to address, which SusanLesch has steadily and cheerfully plugged away at). I've grown too close to the text to see the flaws, and too weary of reading this article. The main question at this stage is should work continue here on talk, or is this getting close enough where a FAR would be the next logical step to bring in more eyes, hopefully towards a seal of approval? A thorough going-over top-to-bottom is needed now, and whether to do more of that on talk or via FAR is the question. Because the article has seen so much re-working, a FAR seal-of-approval would be better than a WP:URFA/2020 "Satisfactory" at this stage, IMO. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 00:47, 11 May 2023 (UTC)
I'm fairly concerned at the degree of primary sourcing to an organization's own materials that is going on in the arts and culture section. How do we know that something is actually significant unless we source it to third-party RS? I've noticed hints of boosterism in Minnesota articles before, so I think that's something to be careful with. Hog Farm Talk 04:12, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Hog Farm and Sandy, ideas welcome. I looked at the other US city FAs (Boston, Cleveland, DC, Ann Arbor). Then I ran through the first couple pages of Minneapolis travel guides at Google Books. Honestly they seem as or more boostery than this article does. I ordered Insiders' Guide® to Twin Cities (2010) by a former Twin Cities Daily Planet editor but really these don't look great:
I have no idea about Greater Than a Tourist and Moon. Frommer's city guide is outdated (1991) and Fodor's mentions the same museums we do in its short three paras. - SusanLesch ( talk) 22:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Reporting in. The past week was spent repairing refs again. We had better get this right because, even after fifteen years, Minneapolis is given as an example at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Cities/US_Guideline#References_/_Notes. This has been a mind-numbing exercise. I have redone every reference in some cases three times. Having an example to follow helped greatly. We started with Britannica. Sandy gave me J. K. Rowling which was kept a year ago, but even so ambiguities crept in. (One pass was to unbundle everything I had carefully bundled.)
We are concerned about self-sourcing. I'm not sure that everyone else is. Looking at featured cities: DC, Boston use self-sourced schools. For schools, Cleveland (I'd say the Cleveland editors did the best job or else they had the best sources available) and Ann Arbor mixed but mostly secondary. Boston has mainly self-sourced hospitals. After going over them twice already, do I need to re-cite the whole second paragraph of colleges? What about magazines? Recent discussion is here. I hope to move to the content issues that Hog Farm found and gave us above. - SusanLesch ( talk) 17:36, 15 May 2023 (UTC)
Sandy and SusanLesch - please ping me when y'all are ready for me to take a look again. Hog Farm Talk 00:57, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:28, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Magnolia677, you wrote: "This article is about a city, not some restaurant owner. The award was for his "trailblazing work with Native cuisine", which has little relevance here except to add puff up the article."
No. That "trailblazing work..." is a photo caption at the Star Tribune. The foundation's press release doesn't mention trailblazing. They do say he got the award for "his outstanding achievements as a chef, educator, author and activist in preserving and celebrating Indigenous food systems." Indigenous means what the dictionary says: "produced, growing, living, or occurring natively or naturally in a particular region or environment," or "relating to the earliest known inhabitants of a place and especially of a place that was colonized by a now-dominant group." That is a place and that place is Minneapolis. It isn't right to step in here and delete indigenous food from Minneapolis when the rest of the world is applauding Sherman. You had no objections to Gavin Kaysen coaching Team USA in the Bocuse d'Or. Please stop your disruptive editing. - SusanLesch ( talk) 23:46, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
The Owamni has its own article. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 15:28, 16 June 2023 (UTC)
Magnolia677, you wrote in your edit summary: Jews were discriminated against by racist housing policies; this is sourced and notable; you have removed this twice, please discuss.
Already addressed. Your response was I don't want to have to do a bunch of research about this.
To repeat:
With the help of a research librarian in Washington, I was able to find a Library of Congress archive to which the Minnesota Historical Society awarded back issues of The American Jewish World. You removed the image of outrage that led to the Cohen law of April 1919, when the state banned religious discrimination in property sales. Are you paying attention here, or maybe preoccupied? - SusanLesch ( talk) 20:30, 20 June 2023 (UTC)
The article makes the extraordinary claim that "The effects of racial covenants remain today in...health equity."
The source cited to support this never once uses the term "health equity". Moreover, the source states that:
Covenants fueled contemporary health inequities. For example, covenants steered investments in green amenities like trees, which determine the air temperature of neighborhoods today. In Minneapolis, areas that had covenants are on average 10 degrees cooler than neighborhoods that were redlined. Excess heat is responsible for at least 6,000 deaths each year in the United States and complicates the management of conditions like hypertension and heart disease.
In other words...because racist housing policies enacted over 70 years ago lead richer parts of the city to have more trees, and because trees lower the air temperature, and because lots and lots of people in the US die each year from excessive heat...therefore, the effects of the covenants remain.
The reliability of this entire source is tainted by such a spurious, unencyclopedic, and unscientific conclusion. Magnolia677 ( talk) 17:43, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
Magnolia, addressing your comments above, these are facts not opinions: please refer to WP:UNENCYCLOPEDIC. I'm afraid calling Mapping Prejudice unscientific is worse. Here are two citations from scientific journals, one in the first quartile, one in the second.
Hi, Thesavagenorwegian. First thank you for your interest. Because your edit pointed out a weakness in mine, I have added a quote from the offline book source, and am sure the article is better for it. I saw your Association of Inclusionists user box so maybe you can help me understand. Now that we have a quote, can you please explain what purpose a second source offers this article? Can you remove it? I don't think we need to include a biography of every person we mention, especially those with Wikipedia articles. I grew up in Minneapolis, and heard there that Theodore Wirth was responsible for the parks. That turns out to be largely untrue (and now I wonder if I should expand the sentence to dispel that idea). Maybe you will have other suggestions, which are most welcome. Best wishes. - SusanLesch ( talk) 13:34, 28 July 2023 (UTC)
Today, many Minneapolitans think of Wirth as the man who created the Minneapolis park system. In fact, he did not—but he greatly improved it. He inherited a park system that already included most of the shores of the city's lakes, creek and river. The lakeshores that were not yet owned by the park board were in various stages of acquisition or had been ardently promoted for more than a decade before his arrival.... Although Wirth is often given credit for this expansion of the park system, he was a reluctant supporter of some of the new acquisitions. Wirth said when he arrived in Minneapolis that the city already had enough park land.The source of this quote is the philanthropic arm of the Minneapolis park board, and is thus unlikely to be inaccurate (the board's commissioners reviewed it and submitted their changes). - SusanLesch ( talk) 17:25, 31 July 2023 (UTC)
The crux of my edit is the fact that online sources are in general preferable to offline ones.I'm not sure where that is coming from; it leaves out "all other things being equal". In FAs, what matters is that the highest quality sources are used, whether off or online. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 14:54, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
@ SandyGeorgia: Can we please start a FAR this week? We've worked on this for three years, and I would like to wrap this up. I am home now with my books. I can't explain the absence of the other Minnesota editors. ( Elkman is overdue but busy at work.)
- SusanLesch ( talk) 20:17, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
Magnolia677, I reverted your edit because it reduced the prose to one cause and effect of "dwindling logs" without explaining why that happened. Lass is a good source for lumbermen depleting Minnesota's forests and I'll look again tomorrow for more support for this one sentence. Thank you. - SusanLesch ( talk) 02:52, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
SandyGeorgia, acting on your advice, I think the citations are internally consistent. Here are my notes:
If they look okay, we're ready for wider review. - SusanLesch ( talk) 17:57, 25 May 2023 (UTC)
I'm not about to argue with User:Citation bot, but this pass does not make sense given the advice here. I patiently changed every cite news to "work" and now the bot wants "newspaper". No way am I going through this all again. - SusanLesch ( talk) 18:00, 28 August 2023 (UTC)
@
636Buster: Hi. Thank you for improving the map. To explain my revert, please see the request at
FAR: I know that newer style of interactive map has its benefits, but is there any way to also show the reader at a glance where Minneapolis is located in the country, rather than making them get into the interactive map, fiddle with the zoom system which is kinda balky on mobile, and then try to figure out that information?
. My apologies for the late reply, busy IRL. Hope this explains. Best wishes,
SusanLesch (
talk) 18:20, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
User:SusanLesch continues to revert efforts to remove the following:
My concerns with this edit are:
The input of others would be appreciated.
References
Magnolia677 ( talk) 22:44, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
If any major motion pictures, television shows, or syndicated radio broadcasts were filmed/recorded or originated in the city, this would probably be a good place to put that information.Thus the show belongs in Media. - SusanLesch ( talk) 02:26, 1 October 2023 (UTC)
For our archive, this article about Blue Zones and their critics appears to be written by a real journalist. [1]
P.S. DeWitt says that Buettner sold Blue Zones to Adventist Health in 2020.
References
A new documentary, The Fall of Minneapolis, is getting a lot of media attention (it's free to watch online). This may be a source of content going forward. Magnolia677 ( talk) 21:18, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Very sorry, I made one disastrous edit (meant only to change a single word). After starting to ask for help at the Village Pump I realized my error. Taking the rest of the night off. - SusanLesch ( talk) 01:06, 27 November 2023 (UTC)