should move the second paragraph describing the word 'maize' and where it came from to an etymology section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.189.40.138 ( talk) 15:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
in my studies, (Britannia, a history of roman britain, frere, p. 32) i have found that corn was an export of britain to the roman empire as noted by strabo circa 16 AD. where did this corn come from if it was, as according to the article, introduced by the spanish upon their return from the new world? theres a difference of almost 1500 years! anybody? joelibyan
This is a recurring topic. Please read the discussion so far before starting yet another round. -- era ( Talk | History) 03:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Because this debate is long and heated, I'm wondering if arbitration should be requested. There isn't an edit war going on, but getting the expert 'pedants to weigh in in order to get this issue settled once and for all would clear the air and allow everyone to spend their time more fruitfully.
I can imagine the following scenarios:
1. Status quo, modulo a big box on the talk page saying that it's going to stay this way. In other words, Corn redirects to Maize, and there's a backlink to Corn (disambiguation) and an explanation of sorts why it's this way. (I'd like to make the explanation clearer and more visible, but my recent edit was reverted.)
2. Rename this Corn (maize) and make Corn and Maize redirect there. Obviously, add that to the Corn (disambiguation) page too. Maybe not that big a change.
Maybe I'm dense, but I can't imagine any other scenario which would not be a gross regression into something worse than the status quo. I would like to avoid moving this to Corn plain and simple, because, after all, that is an ambiguous term, and should remain marked for disambiguation, one way or another. Maybe I'm too strict there, though. -- era ( Talk | History) 03:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Maybe I'm just a silly-silly, but the first bit of the article that establishes that "maize" is referred to as corn in America but possibly not in other cultures sets a confusing precedent for the whole rest of the article. I may be mistaken, but the author(s) never says whether this particular article is about "corn" or something else. swaly 07:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I've never heard anyone call this maize? It sounds made up. - Jerryseinfeld 22:30, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It's not the number of tonnes that the US produces that matters in naming the crop, it's the number of consumers around the world that matters; you may have know it as corn all your life, but the rest of the world calls it maize - the term is even adopted as a legitimate English noun and so the topic title is right for this English section of wikipedia.
In the article you mention that in Southern Africa maize is known as "mealies". I live in Namibia, Southern Africa and corrected the spelling. Here maize is known as "mielies" and not "mealies". The term come from Afrikaans (Kitchen Dutch) which was formed by the various European cultures that settled in Southern Africa. User: Piet Retief. 16:20, 10 July 2006.
Something should be corrected here. The Spanish word for the plant and food know to most English speakers as "Corn" is not spelled with an "e" at the end. So this is not the Spanish word. Also, the word is from a Native American language. The Spanish may have spread similar words to other lands, but I fail to see how this has anything to do with this article. I agree with the logic that speakers of other languages have their own pages. My own, subjective understanding of the word "maize" is a particular type of corn grown by Native Americans. It tends to be darker and more colorful than the variety most commonly grown commercially. However, I understand that the word "corn" has broader conotations in the UK. Therefore, perhaps all Wikipedia articles regarding plants should be listed under their scientific, "Latin" names. "Maize" and "corn" could both redirect to that page. I think that is a fair comprimise.
What English speaking countries call it maize besides the UK? It is corn in the US, Canada, Australia and NZ. It isn't maize in South Africa.. It should be corn. "Maize" is not a universal term; different cultures use different words. And it would seem that more english speakers call it corn.
I agree - this is BUNK and an obvious non-English POV push! The article itself states that 'maize' (what a JOKE!) is referred to as CORN in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States. Therefore, the obvious and predominant term in the ENGLISH SPEAKING WORLD by population is CORN. Besides, I find it hard to swallow that the Brits say 'maize on the cob'... No wonder the intelligentsia ridicule Wikepedia as pure bullshit! MapleLeaf
In the U.S., it's corn. In New Zealand, it's corn. In Australia, it's corn. In Singapore, it's corn. Even in the U.K., everybody knows it by the name "corn." You can title this article "maize" if you want, but at least have the guts to acknowledge that corn is the universal accepted term (because it's EN.wikipedia.org) User: jackbean
Yeah. Good argument. </sarc>
ColdRedRain 19:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I think the article needs to clearly spell out where in the English speaking world it's commonly called maize.
What the hell!? I have lived in Great Britain my whole life and I have never even heard of the word "maize". I asked a few friend and they said "it is what the americans call corn". Quite obviously the word corn should be used for this article. Maize...??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsrboy ( talk • contribs) 00:12, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Well I have lived in American for all my life and it has always been called "corn". Quite obviously the word "corn" should be used for this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.184.200.31 ( talk) 09:22, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I think we are going round in circles here. Maybe a message at the top of the page would be a good idea. I'm not sure how to word it- my first instincy would be American English is not the only form of English spoken on the planet, deal with it., but something a wee bit less confrontational would probaly work better. There is precednt for this- I've seen talk pages with messages at the top saying, in effect, We've made a decision on this issue, so there's little point discussing it now, though I can't think of any specific articles at the moment. Lurker ( said · done) 11:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure I agree with all of the recent changes you made to the article. I thought the terminology section was informative and important but you removed it. Liblamb 23:15, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This unsigned, undated comment was underneath one of the other headlines below. I missed it when I moved the discussion into the "Maize vs. Corn" section. Hope it doesn't appear even more out of context here. -- era ( Talk | History) 15:26, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
In Ontario corn is used exclusivley, outside of an academic environment, see the Ontario Corn Producers' Association. I do not feel that the BBC can be used as a proper source in this regards since this crop is not a staple in the UK. Rather, in areas where it is a staple it is called corn. I grew up on a cash crop farm. Farmers do not use the term maize. People do not go into the grocery store to buy maize. Road side stands do not sell maize.
In an antropological context, however, maize is used exclusivley. In this discipline the crop in discussion is usually not the modern variant and, because the development of maize is of great importance in central and North American archaeology, the distinction is necessary. So, academics use the term maize while the common vernacular is corn.
When reverting my insertion of the word "informally" into the first sentence, Bkonrad wrote:
I won't put it back, but I believe that in technical usage in the US, the plant is generally called maize. For example, a google search for "maize genome" turns up around 20,000 hits, most of which seem to be from US research institutions such as the Maize Genetics/Genomics Database hosted by the University of Missouri, compared to around 3,500 for "corn genome", many of which seem to be from the popular press. Google also believes that the word "maize" appears 55,000 times on US government web pages, so I disagree with the phrase "almost exclusively". I can believe that it is almost exclusively known as corn at the market and at the dinner table, but that is why I used the word "informally". Perhaps a better wording would have been "in non-technical usage", but that puts even more undue emphasis on the question. If it were my article, it would read "Maize, often called corn,", and leave the regional usage trivia out altogether.
— Pekinensis 02:34, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In common usage in the U.S., I suspect that most people would not readily recognize the term "maize". And among those who did know, many would see it as somewhat exotic or even pretentious. I've no problem with the current "often called" phrasing, but if it is accurate, I think the description of regional variations is worth including, though perhaps it doesn't need to figure so prominently as the second paragraph. older≠ wiser 02:14, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)
The species as a whole is called "corn", plain and simple, IMHO as a native speaker of North American English from the midwestern corn belt (though not a farmer). "Indian corn" is used colloqially and loosely to refer to multicolored varieties only. If others have/know of other linguistic traditions for the use of the term Indian corn, it may warrant a short paragraph in the article. However, good, concise, to-the-point introductory paragraphs should not be loaded down with tortuous sentences trying to nuance things too much. -- Kbh3rd 17:22, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
I've visited this article several times, and it is still rather disappointing. There are large areas of North American POV, with little concession to Latin American or world perspectives. Why does the section on 'Uses for maize' start with modern uses of 'corn' in the United States rather than its use as a traditional staple food source in Latin America. Why is it spending so much time mixing up terms by discussing 'corn' rather than 'maize'. Why is there no discussion or even redirect for blue corn, which AFIK is a fairy common term in New Mexico and other latin influenced states of the US. We should be able to do better and be more internally consistent and encyclopedic. -- Solipsist 21:46, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
http://teejer.net/chat/lofiversion/index.php/t10446.html Joey 06:07, 31 March 2006 (UTC) As my link states, 'corn' refers to only the most common cereal grain in a region. In the US, where you happen to be, it happens to refer to maize. The rest of the world says 'corn' means something different, depending on what they eat the most. This species is called 'maize' except colloquially. Joey 06:09, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
ColdRedRain 15:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
It seems that everything covered in the dab for corn is covered in this article. Youngamerican 20:53, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
The above graph is taken from English_language, indicating that the majority of english speakers speak American english. Furthermore, according to the Corn & Maize article, The Canadians and Australians also call it corn. Shouldn't this mean that only a small minority of English speakers refer to it by Maize?
I propose that this article and its contents be redirected to corn.
The sun HAS set on the British Empire, it's time now to move on to more international dialects.
-- Capsela 21:54, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
If I may summarise the below to save people the difficulty of reading through the fights, there is a good reason why Maize is not the same as Corn, and thus why they're not the same entry in the Wiki: Maize, while a word of meso-American origins, appears to generally define all the types of Maize plants. Corn is a cereal grain, that is, the processed, ground-up stuff, and cereals include wheat, maize, millet, sorghum, barley, rye and oats. Corn is, however, a widely used word to mean the maize plant.-- Mike 13:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
If this Wiki is ever to be taken particularly seriously as a font of knowledge, it must not succumb to merely rote repeating of whatever cultural language rules on the day. Of course, we must acknowledge that Corn and Maize appear interchangeable words these days, but we should also be clear that there is differing meanings behind the words, however overturned by popular use. Otherwise we should submit that wikipedia.com be renamed slang.com.-- Mike 13:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Corned-beef anyone???? Corn is an English word with multiple meanings in dictionaries on either side of the Atlantic. The expression Indian corn originally arose in America as a label for the grain used by the indigenous inhabitants, who were once were called Indians. For anyone approaching the problem from a scientific or horticultural perspective the word used is maize, which corresponds to the species name as well as the name used in the current region of MesoAmerica, where maize was domesticated and cultivated for the past 9000 years. Corn is an ambiguous term, while maize provides a more precise or unambiguous term. NoraBG 02:35, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
How about a vote? I vote for Corn. Edison 16:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
The term 'corn' is not an "American- colloquialism". There is no other term in common usage in the US and Canada for the crop. You may *think* it is colloquial, but the dictionaries I consulted did not. Using the term "maize" for corn is not an alternative that would work in everyday life. The only context I have heard 'maize' used in are "Maize Maze" where it is alliterative, a 20 year old Mazola commercial (note, not 'Maizola') and in reference to decorative Indian Corn.
maize /meɪz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[meyz] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. (chiefly in British and technical usage) corn1 (def. 1). 2. a pale yellow resembling the color of corn. [Origin: 1545–55; < Sp maíz < Hispaniolan Taino mahís] Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source maize (mz) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "maize" [P] n.
1. See corn1. 2. A light yellow to moderate orange yellow.
When it says "maize- see corn" you've got the wrong term....
I can appreciate that there is ambiguity because of a continued traditional use of the term 'corn' in the UK, but terming this article "Maize" makes as much sense as filing an article on American Football under "Gridiron" -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.245.110.183 ( talk • contribs) 21:07, 7 November 2006.
This is fascinating...and a little disappointing. Some of the above comments are really pretty unpleasant and unkind, some toward Americans, some toward Brits. Probably no one is reading this anymore, but as a professional linguist I couldn't resist commenting. As someone above noted, the problem here is much wider than "corn/maize," and related to the unavoidable fact that while we (Americans, Brits, Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis, etc.) are (mostly!) all English-speakers, we speak different varieties of the language. None is better, worse, or more or less colloquial than the other. To suggest otherwise is sheer arrogance. Contemporary standard American English is not a dialect of the Queen's English, nor is Canadian English a step-child of American English, etc. Each variety began developing independently with the departure of colonists and separation of colony and homeland.
Some of the arguments here are irrelavent. In America, we use "corn" for what the UK calls "maize." I can speak only for America, though Candian and Aussie comments suggest the same there. There's no point trying to convince Americans that we're "wrong" or only using "slang" when we call "corn/maize" "corn" ("corn" is no more a slang word here than "book," "table," or "kitchen"), and it's equally pointless trying to "educate" us into saying "maize" (apart from the co-existence of the terms in highly-specialized technical usage). (It should go without saying that it's equally pointless to try to convince Brits that they give in to the more numerous Americans and call it "corn.") We use the language differently, this is simply reality, and a natural linguistic development. A similar issue can be found in the word "pavement" -- you can drive on it in the States, but probably not a good idea in the UK. And talk to Spanish-speakers about European and American Spanish differences -- same issue. Consider "the government is" in AmEng vs. "the government are" in BrEng -- the latter sounds grammatically incorrect to my ears, but the former sounds incorrect to my English friends (no idea how that one goes in other English-speaking areas). Rather than try to convince each other of the "rightness" or "wrongness" of one word or the other, there should be some principle for how to deal with language variation.
I have long wondered how Wikipedia handles this issue, since people usually feel that "my" version of the language is the right/correct/best/most-used one. Is there no established policy for dealing with it? There should be. The closest I could find is the very minimal Wikipedia:ENGVAR#National_varieties_of_English. As it stands, the article is somewhat inconsistent, with "maize" used in some places and "corn" used in others. Frankly, as a speaker of American English, I feel that I am reading something foreign when I read "maize" to refer to those little yellow kernels I had for dinner last night, not unlike reading "plaros" or something to refer to the "bread" on the side of the plate. The problem is that apparently a British reader would feel the same if it said "corn." So long as this is the "English-language Wikipedia" and not the "American Wikipedia" or "Australian Wikipedia" or "British Wikipedia" etc., there's no real solution for this. The only other idea I've thought of is possibly having a mirror corn/maize page (one consistently with British usage, one consistently with non-British usage) so all English speakers can read about this basic foodstuff (basic at least in the States) without the distraction of incorrect (for them) usage. But that's one step down the path to multiple English-language Wikipedias... 68.98.140.26 ( talk) 20:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
http://teejer.net/chat/lofiversion/index.php/t10446.html Corn just means whatever cereal grain is the most common in a region. In the US and Canada, it is maize. In the UK, it is wheat. Elsewhere it is different. This species is rightly called 'maize' and corn is a colloquialism. Joey 06:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Let me ask a few questions, the answers may help put this in perspective: In the U.K. you call wheat corn, but if I said "wheat" to a brit, wouldn't you still know what I was talking about? If I said "maize", a significant number of Americans, I'm guessing over 60%, would think I was talking about a maze. If I clarified "the food", I think about 30% - and higher for children under 14 - would have no fucking clue what I was talking about, even if I spelled it. Also, do you alter other names and phrases that would include "corn" in the U.S.? Popmaize? Candy maize? Maizehole? Maizey?
On a separate note... there must be a tasteful way to mention in the article that whole corn kernels are famous/infamous for passing through the digestive system intact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.198.104 ( talk • contribs) 12 April 2006
How do you pronounce maize? - "maze" (rhymes with days) or "mize" (rhymes with eyes)? This needs to be made apparent, and does not seem to have been addressed (except perhaps for those readers who are conversant with the special symbols denoting pronunciation, which the casual reader is not). 72.73.250.57 ( talk) 23:23, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
My apologies - It appears that there is an attempt on the page to explain how to pronounce maize - there is an "ei" reference where the "ei" appears to be in a different font from the rest of the the sentence, and that corresponds to a rhyming with "days" (i.e., not rhyming with "eyes"). But to the first-time reader this is easy to overlook. Perhaps with further experience with the Wikipedia pages, I will not be so quick to jump to these conclusions of inadequacy. But for now, suffice it to say that a casual browser of these pages can quite easily make the same mistake(s) that I have. In other words, it seems like a simple statement like "rhymes with ..." would prevent such waste of time and resources. Again, my apologies..."mea culpa". 72.73.250.57 ( talk) 23:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay, judging from the previous posts on this issue (below), maybe it's not just as simple as saying "rhymes with ..." (unless you can think of a two syllable word (or two separate words) that it rhymes with!). 72.73.250.57 ( talk) 00:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Please mention how to pronounce it, even if we are supposed to dig elsewhere for the answer.
SAMPA: /meIz/ Rmhermen 15:41, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I am calling BS on this Maize business. I guess we are supposed to believe that everyone in the world is running around having maize-on-the-cob and saying "oh dear, I have spilled some corns of barley on the floor!".
However google does not agree: Corn: 73,200,000 hits. Maize: 13,400,000
Where all these people who supposedly refer to zea mays as 'maize'??
Not on the recipies section on foodtv http://web.foodnetwork.com/food/web/searchResults?searchType=Recipe&searchString=corn&site=food&gosearch=Search
which has "Corn": 1971 recipes "Maize: 6 recipes
Hmmm maybe in the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/ "Maize": 6 recipes "Corn": 112 recipes
http://www.uktvfood.co.uk/ "Corn": 125 recipes "Maize": 1 recipe
http://www.vegsoc.org/cordonvert/recipes/ UK vegitarian soceity "Corn": 112 "Maize": 10 (and none appear to be recipes)
How about google:
"maize recipe": 285,000 "corn recipe": 2,560,000
"maize recipe site:.co.uk" : 2,340 corn recipe -peppercorn, -corned site:.co.uk: 7,170
Even that that supposed bastion of we-dont-know-what-corn-is-but-we-have-heard-of-maize, the UK, corn seems to be the dominant term.
I dont care if your sainted Welsh mother used the term 'corn' to refer to sorghum, that time is past and she would be hard pressed to make herself understood for much longer in Albion.
"Corn" *is* the predominate term; it *is not* a colliquialism, and this article ought to be changed.
At this point it is obvious that "corn" is the more common term, so there is no "including" about it. So a genome site uses maize. What about
http://www.iowacorn.org/ http://www.ncga.com/ http://www.agry.purdue.edu/ext/corn/
- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.245.110.183 ( talk • contribs) 02:50, 8 November 2006.
And with many of those recipe searches, you are probably getting confused with sweetcorn. As has been discussed here several times, the trouble with the word 'corn' is that it is very imprecise and can refer to many different things depending on context. -- Solipsist 04:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I dont think I am 'getting confused' at all:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/cornandcrabmeatsoup_73639.shtml Corn and crabmeat soup Ingredients 2 tbsp oil 2 spring onions, chopped 2 cloves garlic, chopped corn from 1 corn-cob, removed and toasted 290ml/½ pint chicken stock 55g/2oz tinned crabmeat salt and freshly ground black pepper drizzle of sesame oil
Method 1. Heat the oil in a pan and fry the spring onions and garlic for two minutes. 2. Add the corn and chicken stock and cook for another 3-5 minutes. 3. Stir through the crabmeat and season with salt and pepper. 4. Drizzle with sesame oil and serve.
Look there is a British recipe that uses "corn" without qualification. If the term is so "very imprecise" why did the BBC use it without qualification? And where are the people writting in to say "I made this recipe and it came out very grainy and there was a strong taste of uncooked flour".
Face it- "corn" is not "very imprecise", people know exactly what the term means.
When I go to Tesco's on-line grocery site it seems you cannot buy a product called "maize" in the UK. However you can buy "corn".
The people who grow it call it "corn", the people who sell it call it "corn", people who tell other people who to cook it use "corn", and people who eat it call it "corn".
In those contexts the term "maize" only seems to be used by UK Corn growers. Even the people they sell to dont use "maize".
Britannia and World Book have Corn articles that they redirect you to if you search for "maize".
The only reason to call this article "Maize" is if you have an etymological axe to grind. You might as well refile "Edible Salt" under "Sodium Chloride"
Likewise 'salt' is an imprecise term (and much more so) yet there is no confusion in daily conversation if calcium chloide or sodium cholide is ment.
My argument is that I dont believe a substantial population of people, including in the UK, use the term "maize". Show me evidence that they do. Certainly it appears UK stores sell either corn or sweetcorn but never maize.
Nor do people feel there is a danger of ambiguity when they write up recipes in the UK. Your prefered disambiguator "maize" is never used unless the dish is specifically Latin American.
Or check Britannica http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9361626 where the definition of corn is zea mays and there is no reference to other grains. And there is no article for "maize"- because I dont believe that term is in common use. Wikipedia is out of step.
And as was mention above, maize is an imprecise term. I have heard "maize" mostly in the context of "Indian Corn" or a strictly decorative dried corn. As mentioned here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indian%20corn The definition of "Indian Corn" appears to differ substantially UK to US.
Britannica, Encarta, Worldbook and Columbia have articles on "Corn". And if you are so foolish to type in "maize" you get redirected to "Corn". Because "maize" is always a stub... could that be because "maize" is not commonly used?
And you see no precedent at all?
So what reference work are Englishmen consulting when the BBC publishes a reference to 'corn flakes' such as: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3232764.stm that Solipsist would have us believe has caused mass confusion among readers?
I cant imagine what is even being defend here anymore. Certainly not the statement: "No maize really is more common"- otherwise maize would be sold in stores. And surely not the statement that 'corn' is ambiguous because the term is used more frequently than "maize" in the UK media.
Hunger grips in Malawi maize crisis, Maize bread (recipe from BBC), US maize 'threat' to Mexico farms, etc. Rmhermen 02:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4008205.stm [and BTW what a crappy article, its like something from a free college newspaper] "However, some indigenous farmers are still worried. "The indigenous people of Mexico have farmed corn for 10,000 years," said Mr Gonzales." The actual guy, who farms it every day, calls it "corn". The academic, thousands of miles away, uses "maize".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/entertainment/days_out/maze_2003.shtml:
" Mazes. Enormous mazes cut during the summer months into fields of corn. " Corn is used 4 times, Maize 3 times.
Or this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4450735.stm Entire story on GM corn that does not use the phrase "maize" once. There is no standard at the BBC or it is ignored.
My family owns a farm in Illinois and in the 80 years we have grown "corn" we have never heard of it as being referred to as maize in this business. I attended Northern Illinois University which has a Dekalb corn research department. It is stated there that maize was the term used by native Americans, but the proper modern english term is corn. About the only corn referred to as maize is the multi-colored "Indian corn". 75.21.104.194 07:03, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
In what seems to be a drive-by action, this article has been moved by an editor to this alternative title in a rather unilateral fashion. At least, I can see no evidence that consensus was reached on this (or any other) title in the (now hastily archived) preceding discussions on this page.
What's more, no due consideration has been given to addressing any of the various (double) redirects, dabs, and other links.
I for one think this move should be undone and the article restored to its former title maize, however subsequent edits to that page after the redirect was effected mean that this restoration cannot now be actioned (without admin intervention/assistance).-- cjllw | TALK 01:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I moved the page to Corn (Maize), trying to keep in mind cjilw's objections above. This is the second time I've made this move; Zzuuzz reverted my previous move. Certainly consensus hasn't been reached but on this topic I don't think it ever will. I have read all the arguments above and I find the arguments for bold most compelling. I believe a small majority of commenters here agrees that the title of the article should be "Corn..." A lack of consensus for change is a bad reason to maintain a bad status quo. I was bold and made the move.
This is my first move ever and I tried to be mindful about fixing redirects and stuff, but I'm not sure I did that all properly; please correct any mistakes I made in this regard. As you can see, I have no history of "odd unsupported moves." User Zzuuzz describes my previous change as "drive-by." Please tell me how I cxan make and explain this change without seeming "drive-by" and I'll do it. But the move should stand. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Armandtanzarian ( talk • contribs).
If there is no consensus then why was it reverted? Because apparently the article started under "corn" in the first place and never should have been changed. How do you explain that Britannica, Encarta, Worldbook and Columbia have "Corn" article? Apparently there is more of a consensus that people like to pretend. 24.106.203.125 21:01, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 23:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
I have added a Requested Move tag to the top of this page, for all the reasons outlined on this page, especially the very compelling argument made under the "Calling BS" section. Counter-arguments are made and they are re-butted. I understand the Maizistas position: corn is an ambiguous term, maize means the same thing everywhere. If I can sum up the Cornies reply: the use of corn to mean "any grain" is either restricted to the UK, archaic or both. Maize is a bizarre and poorly understood word in most of the anglosphere.
If no consensus is found (and it won't be) we should solicit the opinion of a 3rd party editor (preferably a native english speaker who is neither American or British) or proceed with an informal mediation request, per WP:DR Armandtanzarian 22:46, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Why on earth is this article called "maize" instead of "corn", isn't this the ENGLISH wikipedia????????? WacoJacko 06:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, 350 million native English speakers call this plant and its food product CORN. Only in Great Britain does corn mean 'grain.' English has a perfectly good name for 'grain'... it's GRAIN. It has been an English word since the 12th century. There should be a disambiguation page for MAIZE with the name of the color, the Spanish name of the grain, etc. As most English speakers on multiple continents use the everyday term CORN to mean this plant/grain, the head title of this page should really be changed. This is akin to calling FOOTBALL 'soccer'; most English speakers say FOOTBALL and that wiki page is titled FOOTBALL. Another reason is that the U.S. grows the most corn (maize) in the world, and natives here were growing corn (maize) before Europeans came. The term CORN is the most appropriate.
71.210.85.197Oct. 26, 2007 —Preceding comment was added at 21:57, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I strongly object to Lurker's addition of the word "popularly" to the article's lead. The plant is known as corn in these countries, period. To say that it's "popularly known as corn in some countries" implies that "corn" is a term popularly used as an informal alternative to the formal term ("maize"). That simply isn't so. I'm holding a food label that lists "corn" (not "maize") as an ingredient.
In reverting my removal of this change, Lurker disputed my assertion that above connotation exists. I'm wondering, therefore, why it's problematic to simply state that the plant is "known as corn in some countries" and what distinction he/she seeks to convey by inserting the word "popularly." —
David Levy 11:49, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I believe most of the issues here have already been solved. Still, this seems to have been a hot topic on some occasions. Again, please read what has already been said before adding your own two (metric/imperial) cents/pennies. -- era ( Talk | History) 03:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I doubt anything has been solved 24.106.203.125 21:02, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
"The corn will ripen in October or early November;" in what country? should this be replaced with seasons instead? - -- Cyprus2k1 22:26, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
User:Ezeu has complained that this article is too focused on the U.S.
shouldn't this be titledUK Bias vs International Bias? I'm Canadian and maize was Indian word for corn. But in Canada no Indians actually grew it so they called it corn too.-- 12.152.181.160 ( talk) 00:05, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
When maize was first introduced outside of the Americas it was typically welcomed enthusiastically by farmers everywhere for its productivity. However, a widespread problem of malnutrition soon arose wherever maize was introduced. This was a mystery since these types of malnutrition were not seen among the indigenous Americans under normal circumstances. citation needed
Commenting on the {{ Fact}} tag here: Are you asking us to prove that indigenous Americans did not suffer a specific form of malnutrition? Ancient societies are not generally known for writing down every ailment that they did not suffer from. Perhaps the burden of proof should be on the person who asserts that the indigenous Americans DID suffer malnutrition, as this is much more likely to be documented.
I removed this sentence because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the article:
In 1940, Barbara McClintock received the Nobel Prize in Medicine for discovery of transposons while studying maize.
ike9898 15:31, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
Can somebody add some information (or write a new article) about baby corn please? I love that weird little freak of nature and would love to know more about it and its relation to regular corn.
the internet is an excellent source for fake information from lazy humans. the tallest stalk of maize that was ever grown was probably the "31'-even" stalk that was grown outside washington, iowa in 1946. the day that it was measured, the washington newspaper reported this precise height. look it up for yourself. end the circle of august ignorance.
According to this site "Don Radda of Washington grew the world's tallest corn stalk in 1946; it was thirty-one feet and three inches high." -- WormRunner | Talk 21:54, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The "Maize" article states that "Worldwide production was over 600 million metric tons in 2003, just slightly more than rice or wheat."
The "Sweet Corn" article states that "Maize is the third most grown cereal crop in the world after rice and wheat."
I'm not sure which is correct, (or if 2003 is the most recent year for which data is available) but the articles should agree on which crop is grown in greater abundance. [[User:asdfa|asdfa] 16:52, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
say "use" in ...furnaces have been developed which uses maize...
Changes 2/11/06:
My latest edit should assuage some of Curtis Clark's concerns, and (I hope) make it more palatable to Rmhermen also.-- Zeamays 18:36, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I think it should be divided up. Kaw in stl 21:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following text as it does not seem acurate and the reference given did not support it. Maize planted individually develops 2 to 4 ears. Modern farming techniques in developed countries usually rely on dense planting, which produces on average only about 0.9 ears per stalk because it stresses the plants. { http://maize.agron.iastate.edu/ears.html Signed Jeepday 16:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd never heard of it before I stumbled across the article. But there is an article called corn construction. Sort of. Came here to suggest that the corn construction article is either improved or removed. I am a lemon 04:42, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Why do corn grow slower then beans?
In March this page was moved here from Corn but nobody thought to move the Talk:Corn, consequently there is history which belongs here on a disambiguation page for corn. Anyone capable of a full history merge and willing to undertake it.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 02:37, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
should move the second paragraph describing the word 'maize' and where it came from to an etymology section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.189.40.138 ( talk) 15:49, 27 January 2008 (UTC)
in my studies, (Britannia, a history of roman britain, frere, p. 32) i have found that corn was an export of britain to the roman empire as noted by strabo circa 16 AD. where did this corn come from if it was, as according to the article, introduced by the spanish upon their return from the new world? theres a difference of almost 1500 years! anybody? joelibyan
This is a recurring topic. Please read the discussion so far before starting yet another round. -- era ( Talk | History) 03:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Because this debate is long and heated, I'm wondering if arbitration should be requested. There isn't an edit war going on, but getting the expert 'pedants to weigh in in order to get this issue settled once and for all would clear the air and allow everyone to spend their time more fruitfully.
I can imagine the following scenarios:
1. Status quo, modulo a big box on the talk page saying that it's going to stay this way. In other words, Corn redirects to Maize, and there's a backlink to Corn (disambiguation) and an explanation of sorts why it's this way. (I'd like to make the explanation clearer and more visible, but my recent edit was reverted.)
2. Rename this Corn (maize) and make Corn and Maize redirect there. Obviously, add that to the Corn (disambiguation) page too. Maybe not that big a change.
Maybe I'm dense, but I can't imagine any other scenario which would not be a gross regression into something worse than the status quo. I would like to avoid moving this to Corn plain and simple, because, after all, that is an ambiguous term, and should remain marked for disambiguation, one way or another. Maybe I'm too strict there, though. -- era ( Talk | History) 03:20, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
Maybe I'm just a silly-silly, but the first bit of the article that establishes that "maize" is referred to as corn in America but possibly not in other cultures sets a confusing precedent for the whole rest of the article. I may be mistaken, but the author(s) never says whether this particular article is about "corn" or something else. swaly 07:06, 6 March 2006 (UTC)
I've never heard anyone call this maize? It sounds made up. - Jerryseinfeld 22:30, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It's not the number of tonnes that the US produces that matters in naming the crop, it's the number of consumers around the world that matters; you may have know it as corn all your life, but the rest of the world calls it maize - the term is even adopted as a legitimate English noun and so the topic title is right for this English section of wikipedia.
In the article you mention that in Southern Africa maize is known as "mealies". I live in Namibia, Southern Africa and corrected the spelling. Here maize is known as "mielies" and not "mealies". The term come from Afrikaans (Kitchen Dutch) which was formed by the various European cultures that settled in Southern Africa. User: Piet Retief. 16:20, 10 July 2006.
Something should be corrected here. The Spanish word for the plant and food know to most English speakers as "Corn" is not spelled with an "e" at the end. So this is not the Spanish word. Also, the word is from a Native American language. The Spanish may have spread similar words to other lands, but I fail to see how this has anything to do with this article. I agree with the logic that speakers of other languages have their own pages. My own, subjective understanding of the word "maize" is a particular type of corn grown by Native Americans. It tends to be darker and more colorful than the variety most commonly grown commercially. However, I understand that the word "corn" has broader conotations in the UK. Therefore, perhaps all Wikipedia articles regarding plants should be listed under their scientific, "Latin" names. "Maize" and "corn" could both redirect to that page. I think that is a fair comprimise.
What English speaking countries call it maize besides the UK? It is corn in the US, Canada, Australia and NZ. It isn't maize in South Africa.. It should be corn. "Maize" is not a universal term; different cultures use different words. And it would seem that more english speakers call it corn.
I agree - this is BUNK and an obvious non-English POV push! The article itself states that 'maize' (what a JOKE!) is referred to as CORN in Australia, Canada, New Zealand and the United States. Therefore, the obvious and predominant term in the ENGLISH SPEAKING WORLD by population is CORN. Besides, I find it hard to swallow that the Brits say 'maize on the cob'... No wonder the intelligentsia ridicule Wikepedia as pure bullshit! MapleLeaf
In the U.S., it's corn. In New Zealand, it's corn. In Australia, it's corn. In Singapore, it's corn. Even in the U.K., everybody knows it by the name "corn." You can title this article "maize" if you want, but at least have the guts to acknowledge that corn is the universal accepted term (because it's EN.wikipedia.org) User: jackbean
Yeah. Good argument. </sarc>
ColdRedRain 19:08, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, I think the article needs to clearly spell out where in the English speaking world it's commonly called maize.
What the hell!? I have lived in Great Britain my whole life and I have never even heard of the word "maize". I asked a few friend and they said "it is what the americans call corn". Quite obviously the word corn should be used for this article. Maize...??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bsrboy ( talk • contribs) 00:12, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
Well I have lived in American for all my life and it has always been called "corn". Quite obviously the word "corn" should be used for this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.184.200.31 ( talk) 09:22, 19 January 2008 (UTC)
I think we are going round in circles here. Maybe a message at the top of the page would be a good idea. I'm not sure how to word it- my first instincy would be American English is not the only form of English spoken on the planet, deal with it., but something a wee bit less confrontational would probaly work better. There is precednt for this- I've seen talk pages with messages at the top saying, in effect, We've made a decision on this issue, so there's little point discussing it now, though I can't think of any specific articles at the moment. Lurker ( said · done) 11:50, 4 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure I agree with all of the recent changes you made to the article. I thought the terminology section was informative and important but you removed it. Liblamb 23:15, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
This unsigned, undated comment was underneath one of the other headlines below. I missed it when I moved the discussion into the "Maize vs. Corn" section. Hope it doesn't appear even more out of context here. -- era ( Talk | History) 15:26, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
In Ontario corn is used exclusivley, outside of an academic environment, see the Ontario Corn Producers' Association. I do not feel that the BBC can be used as a proper source in this regards since this crop is not a staple in the UK. Rather, in areas where it is a staple it is called corn. I grew up on a cash crop farm. Farmers do not use the term maize. People do not go into the grocery store to buy maize. Road side stands do not sell maize.
In an antropological context, however, maize is used exclusivley. In this discipline the crop in discussion is usually not the modern variant and, because the development of maize is of great importance in central and North American archaeology, the distinction is necessary. So, academics use the term maize while the common vernacular is corn.
When reverting my insertion of the word "informally" into the first sentence, Bkonrad wrote:
I won't put it back, but I believe that in technical usage in the US, the plant is generally called maize. For example, a google search for "maize genome" turns up around 20,000 hits, most of which seem to be from US research institutions such as the Maize Genetics/Genomics Database hosted by the University of Missouri, compared to around 3,500 for "corn genome", many of which seem to be from the popular press. Google also believes that the word "maize" appears 55,000 times on US government web pages, so I disagree with the phrase "almost exclusively". I can believe that it is almost exclusively known as corn at the market and at the dinner table, but that is why I used the word "informally". Perhaps a better wording would have been "in non-technical usage", but that puts even more undue emphasis on the question. If it were my article, it would read "Maize, often called corn,", and leave the regional usage trivia out altogether.
— Pekinensis 02:34, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)
In common usage in the U.S., I suspect that most people would not readily recognize the term "maize". And among those who did know, many would see it as somewhat exotic or even pretentious. I've no problem with the current "often called" phrasing, but if it is accurate, I think the description of regional variations is worth including, though perhaps it doesn't need to figure so prominently as the second paragraph. older≠ wiser 02:14, Apr 21, 2005 (UTC)
The species as a whole is called "corn", plain and simple, IMHO as a native speaker of North American English from the midwestern corn belt (though not a farmer). "Indian corn" is used colloqially and loosely to refer to multicolored varieties only. If others have/know of other linguistic traditions for the use of the term Indian corn, it may warrant a short paragraph in the article. However, good, concise, to-the-point introductory paragraphs should not be loaded down with tortuous sentences trying to nuance things too much. -- Kbh3rd 17:22, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
I've visited this article several times, and it is still rather disappointing. There are large areas of North American POV, with little concession to Latin American or world perspectives. Why does the section on 'Uses for maize' start with modern uses of 'corn' in the United States rather than its use as a traditional staple food source in Latin America. Why is it spending so much time mixing up terms by discussing 'corn' rather than 'maize'. Why is there no discussion or even redirect for blue corn, which AFIK is a fairy common term in New Mexico and other latin influenced states of the US. We should be able to do better and be more internally consistent and encyclopedic. -- Solipsist 21:46, 16 January 2006 (UTC)
http://teejer.net/chat/lofiversion/index.php/t10446.html Joey 06:07, 31 March 2006 (UTC) As my link states, 'corn' refers to only the most common cereal grain in a region. In the US, where you happen to be, it happens to refer to maize. The rest of the world says 'corn' means something different, depending on what they eat the most. This species is called 'maize' except colloquially. Joey 06:09, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
ColdRedRain 15:56, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
It seems that everything covered in the dab for corn is covered in this article. Youngamerican 20:53, 26 January 2006 (UTC)
The above graph is taken from English_language, indicating that the majority of english speakers speak American english. Furthermore, according to the Corn & Maize article, The Canadians and Australians also call it corn. Shouldn't this mean that only a small minority of English speakers refer to it by Maize?
I propose that this article and its contents be redirected to corn.
The sun HAS set on the British Empire, it's time now to move on to more international dialects.
-- Capsela 21:54, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
If I may summarise the below to save people the difficulty of reading through the fights, there is a good reason why Maize is not the same as Corn, and thus why they're not the same entry in the Wiki: Maize, while a word of meso-American origins, appears to generally define all the types of Maize plants. Corn is a cereal grain, that is, the processed, ground-up stuff, and cereals include wheat, maize, millet, sorghum, barley, rye and oats. Corn is, however, a widely used word to mean the maize plant.-- Mike 13:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
If this Wiki is ever to be taken particularly seriously as a font of knowledge, it must not succumb to merely rote repeating of whatever cultural language rules on the day. Of course, we must acknowledge that Corn and Maize appear interchangeable words these days, but we should also be clear that there is differing meanings behind the words, however overturned by popular use. Otherwise we should submit that wikipedia.com be renamed slang.com.-- Mike 13:43, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Corned-beef anyone???? Corn is an English word with multiple meanings in dictionaries on either side of the Atlantic. The expression Indian corn originally arose in America as a label for the grain used by the indigenous inhabitants, who were once were called Indians. For anyone approaching the problem from a scientific or horticultural perspective the word used is maize, which corresponds to the species name as well as the name used in the current region of MesoAmerica, where maize was domesticated and cultivated for the past 9000 years. Corn is an ambiguous term, while maize provides a more precise or unambiguous term. NoraBG 02:35, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
How about a vote? I vote for Corn. Edison 16:48, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
The term 'corn' is not an "American- colloquialism". There is no other term in common usage in the US and Canada for the crop. You may *think* it is colloquial, but the dictionaries I consulted did not. Using the term "maize" for corn is not an alternative that would work in everyday life. The only context I have heard 'maize' used in are "Maize Maze" where it is alliterative, a 20 year old Mazola commercial (note, not 'Maizola') and in reference to decorative Indian Corn.
maize /meɪz/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[meyz] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. (chiefly in British and technical usage) corn1 (def. 1). 2. a pale yellow resembling the color of corn. [Origin: 1545–55; < Sp maíz < Hispaniolan Taino mahís] Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.0.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source maize (mz) Pronunciation Key Audio pronunciation of "maize" [P] n.
1. See corn1. 2. A light yellow to moderate orange yellow.
When it says "maize- see corn" you've got the wrong term....
I can appreciate that there is ambiguity because of a continued traditional use of the term 'corn' in the UK, but terming this article "Maize" makes as much sense as filing an article on American Football under "Gridiron" -- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.245.110.183 ( talk • contribs) 21:07, 7 November 2006.
This is fascinating...and a little disappointing. Some of the above comments are really pretty unpleasant and unkind, some toward Americans, some toward Brits. Probably no one is reading this anymore, but as a professional linguist I couldn't resist commenting. As someone above noted, the problem here is much wider than "corn/maize," and related to the unavoidable fact that while we (Americans, Brits, Canadians, Aussies, Kiwis, etc.) are (mostly!) all English-speakers, we speak different varieties of the language. None is better, worse, or more or less colloquial than the other. To suggest otherwise is sheer arrogance. Contemporary standard American English is not a dialect of the Queen's English, nor is Canadian English a step-child of American English, etc. Each variety began developing independently with the departure of colonists and separation of colony and homeland.
Some of the arguments here are irrelavent. In America, we use "corn" for what the UK calls "maize." I can speak only for America, though Candian and Aussie comments suggest the same there. There's no point trying to convince Americans that we're "wrong" or only using "slang" when we call "corn/maize" "corn" ("corn" is no more a slang word here than "book," "table," or "kitchen"), and it's equally pointless trying to "educate" us into saying "maize" (apart from the co-existence of the terms in highly-specialized technical usage). (It should go without saying that it's equally pointless to try to convince Brits that they give in to the more numerous Americans and call it "corn.") We use the language differently, this is simply reality, and a natural linguistic development. A similar issue can be found in the word "pavement" -- you can drive on it in the States, but probably not a good idea in the UK. And talk to Spanish-speakers about European and American Spanish differences -- same issue. Consider "the government is" in AmEng vs. "the government are" in BrEng -- the latter sounds grammatically incorrect to my ears, but the former sounds incorrect to my English friends (no idea how that one goes in other English-speaking areas). Rather than try to convince each other of the "rightness" or "wrongness" of one word or the other, there should be some principle for how to deal with language variation.
I have long wondered how Wikipedia handles this issue, since people usually feel that "my" version of the language is the right/correct/best/most-used one. Is there no established policy for dealing with it? There should be. The closest I could find is the very minimal Wikipedia:ENGVAR#National_varieties_of_English. As it stands, the article is somewhat inconsistent, with "maize" used in some places and "corn" used in others. Frankly, as a speaker of American English, I feel that I am reading something foreign when I read "maize" to refer to those little yellow kernels I had for dinner last night, not unlike reading "plaros" or something to refer to the "bread" on the side of the plate. The problem is that apparently a British reader would feel the same if it said "corn." So long as this is the "English-language Wikipedia" and not the "American Wikipedia" or "Australian Wikipedia" or "British Wikipedia" etc., there's no real solution for this. The only other idea I've thought of is possibly having a mirror corn/maize page (one consistently with British usage, one consistently with non-British usage) so all English speakers can read about this basic foodstuff (basic at least in the States) without the distraction of incorrect (for them) usage. But that's one step down the path to multiple English-language Wikipedias... 68.98.140.26 ( talk) 20:17, 15 March 2008 (UTC)
http://teejer.net/chat/lofiversion/index.php/t10446.html Corn just means whatever cereal grain is the most common in a region. In the US and Canada, it is maize. In the UK, it is wheat. Elsewhere it is different. This species is rightly called 'maize' and corn is a colloquialism. Joey 06:11, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
Let me ask a few questions, the answers may help put this in perspective: In the U.K. you call wheat corn, but if I said "wheat" to a brit, wouldn't you still know what I was talking about? If I said "maize", a significant number of Americans, I'm guessing over 60%, would think I was talking about a maze. If I clarified "the food", I think about 30% - and higher for children under 14 - would have no fucking clue what I was talking about, even if I spelled it. Also, do you alter other names and phrases that would include "corn" in the U.S.? Popmaize? Candy maize? Maizehole? Maizey?
On a separate note... there must be a tasteful way to mention in the article that whole corn kernels are famous/infamous for passing through the digestive system intact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.218.198.104 ( talk • contribs) 12 April 2006
How do you pronounce maize? - "maze" (rhymes with days) or "mize" (rhymes with eyes)? This needs to be made apparent, and does not seem to have been addressed (except perhaps for those readers who are conversant with the special symbols denoting pronunciation, which the casual reader is not). 72.73.250.57 ( talk) 23:23, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
My apologies - It appears that there is an attempt on the page to explain how to pronounce maize - there is an "ei" reference where the "ei" appears to be in a different font from the rest of the the sentence, and that corresponds to a rhyming with "days" (i.e., not rhyming with "eyes"). But to the first-time reader this is easy to overlook. Perhaps with further experience with the Wikipedia pages, I will not be so quick to jump to these conclusions of inadequacy. But for now, suffice it to say that a casual browser of these pages can quite easily make the same mistake(s) that I have. In other words, it seems like a simple statement like "rhymes with ..." would prevent such waste of time and resources. Again, my apologies..."mea culpa". 72.73.250.57 ( talk) 23:42, 5 December 2007 (UTC)
Okay, judging from the previous posts on this issue (below), maybe it's not just as simple as saying "rhymes with ..." (unless you can think of a two syllable word (or two separate words) that it rhymes with!). 72.73.250.57 ( talk) 00:18, 6 December 2007 (UTC)
Please mention how to pronounce it, even if we are supposed to dig elsewhere for the answer.
SAMPA: /meIz/ Rmhermen 15:41, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
Ok, I am calling BS on this Maize business. I guess we are supposed to believe that everyone in the world is running around having maize-on-the-cob and saying "oh dear, I have spilled some corns of barley on the floor!".
However google does not agree: Corn: 73,200,000 hits. Maize: 13,400,000
Where all these people who supposedly refer to zea mays as 'maize'??
Not on the recipies section on foodtv http://web.foodnetwork.com/food/web/searchResults?searchType=Recipe&searchString=corn&site=food&gosearch=Search
which has "Corn": 1971 recipes "Maize: 6 recipes
Hmmm maybe in the UK:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/ "Maize": 6 recipes "Corn": 112 recipes
http://www.uktvfood.co.uk/ "Corn": 125 recipes "Maize": 1 recipe
http://www.vegsoc.org/cordonvert/recipes/ UK vegitarian soceity "Corn": 112 "Maize": 10 (and none appear to be recipes)
How about google:
"maize recipe": 285,000 "corn recipe": 2,560,000
"maize recipe site:.co.uk" : 2,340 corn recipe -peppercorn, -corned site:.co.uk: 7,170
Even that that supposed bastion of we-dont-know-what-corn-is-but-we-have-heard-of-maize, the UK, corn seems to be the dominant term.
I dont care if your sainted Welsh mother used the term 'corn' to refer to sorghum, that time is past and she would be hard pressed to make herself understood for much longer in Albion.
"Corn" *is* the predominate term; it *is not* a colliquialism, and this article ought to be changed.
At this point it is obvious that "corn" is the more common term, so there is no "including" about it. So a genome site uses maize. What about
http://www.iowacorn.org/ http://www.ncga.com/ http://www.agry.purdue.edu/ext/corn/
- —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.245.110.183 ( talk • contribs) 02:50, 8 November 2006.
And with many of those recipe searches, you are probably getting confused with sweetcorn. As has been discussed here several times, the trouble with the word 'corn' is that it is very imprecise and can refer to many different things depending on context. -- Solipsist 04:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
I dont think I am 'getting confused' at all:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/food/recipes/database/cornandcrabmeatsoup_73639.shtml Corn and crabmeat soup Ingredients 2 tbsp oil 2 spring onions, chopped 2 cloves garlic, chopped corn from 1 corn-cob, removed and toasted 290ml/½ pint chicken stock 55g/2oz tinned crabmeat salt and freshly ground black pepper drizzle of sesame oil
Method 1. Heat the oil in a pan and fry the spring onions and garlic for two minutes. 2. Add the corn and chicken stock and cook for another 3-5 minutes. 3. Stir through the crabmeat and season with salt and pepper. 4. Drizzle with sesame oil and serve.
Look there is a British recipe that uses "corn" without qualification. If the term is so "very imprecise" why did the BBC use it without qualification? And where are the people writting in to say "I made this recipe and it came out very grainy and there was a strong taste of uncooked flour".
Face it- "corn" is not "very imprecise", people know exactly what the term means.
When I go to Tesco's on-line grocery site it seems you cannot buy a product called "maize" in the UK. However you can buy "corn".
The people who grow it call it "corn", the people who sell it call it "corn", people who tell other people who to cook it use "corn", and people who eat it call it "corn".
In those contexts the term "maize" only seems to be used by UK Corn growers. Even the people they sell to dont use "maize".
Britannia and World Book have Corn articles that they redirect you to if you search for "maize".
The only reason to call this article "Maize" is if you have an etymological axe to grind. You might as well refile "Edible Salt" under "Sodium Chloride"
Likewise 'salt' is an imprecise term (and much more so) yet there is no confusion in daily conversation if calcium chloide or sodium cholide is ment.
My argument is that I dont believe a substantial population of people, including in the UK, use the term "maize". Show me evidence that they do. Certainly it appears UK stores sell either corn or sweetcorn but never maize.
Nor do people feel there is a danger of ambiguity when they write up recipes in the UK. Your prefered disambiguator "maize" is never used unless the dish is specifically Latin American.
Or check Britannica http://www.britannica.com/ebc/article-9361626 where the definition of corn is zea mays and there is no reference to other grains. And there is no article for "maize"- because I dont believe that term is in common use. Wikipedia is out of step.
And as was mention above, maize is an imprecise term. I have heard "maize" mostly in the context of "Indian Corn" or a strictly decorative dried corn. As mentioned here: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/indian%20corn The definition of "Indian Corn" appears to differ substantially UK to US.
Britannica, Encarta, Worldbook and Columbia have articles on "Corn". And if you are so foolish to type in "maize" you get redirected to "Corn". Because "maize" is always a stub... could that be because "maize" is not commonly used?
And you see no precedent at all?
So what reference work are Englishmen consulting when the BBC publishes a reference to 'corn flakes' such as: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/3232764.stm that Solipsist would have us believe has caused mass confusion among readers?
I cant imagine what is even being defend here anymore. Certainly not the statement: "No maize really is more common"- otherwise maize would be sold in stores. And surely not the statement that 'corn' is ambiguous because the term is used more frequently than "maize" in the UK media.
Hunger grips in Malawi maize crisis, Maize bread (recipe from BBC), US maize 'threat' to Mexico farms, etc. Rmhermen 02:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4008205.stm [and BTW what a crappy article, its like something from a free college newspaper] "However, some indigenous farmers are still worried. "The indigenous people of Mexico have farmed corn for 10,000 years," said Mr Gonzales." The actual guy, who farms it every day, calls it "corn". The academic, thousands of miles away, uses "maize".
http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/entertainment/days_out/maze_2003.shtml:
" Mazes. Enormous mazes cut during the summer months into fields of corn. " Corn is used 4 times, Maize 3 times.
Or this: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4450735.stm Entire story on GM corn that does not use the phrase "maize" once. There is no standard at the BBC or it is ignored.
My family owns a farm in Illinois and in the 80 years we have grown "corn" we have never heard of it as being referred to as maize in this business. I attended Northern Illinois University which has a Dekalb corn research department. It is stated there that maize was the term used by native Americans, but the proper modern english term is corn. About the only corn referred to as maize is the multi-colored "Indian corn". 75.21.104.194 07:03, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
In what seems to be a drive-by action, this article has been moved by an editor to this alternative title in a rather unilateral fashion. At least, I can see no evidence that consensus was reached on this (or any other) title in the (now hastily archived) preceding discussions on this page.
What's more, no due consideration has been given to addressing any of the various (double) redirects, dabs, and other links.
I for one think this move should be undone and the article restored to its former title maize, however subsequent edits to that page after the redirect was effected mean that this restoration cannot now be actioned (without admin intervention/assistance).-- cjllw | TALK 01:47, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
I moved the page to Corn (Maize), trying to keep in mind cjilw's objections above. This is the second time I've made this move; Zzuuzz reverted my previous move. Certainly consensus hasn't been reached but on this topic I don't think it ever will. I have read all the arguments above and I find the arguments for bold most compelling. I believe a small majority of commenters here agrees that the title of the article should be "Corn..." A lack of consensus for change is a bad reason to maintain a bad status quo. I was bold and made the move.
This is my first move ever and I tried to be mindful about fixing redirects and stuff, but I'm not sure I did that all properly; please correct any mistakes I made in this regard. As you can see, I have no history of "odd unsupported moves." User Zzuuzz describes my previous change as "drive-by." Please tell me how I cxan make and explain this change without seeming "drive-by" and I'll do it. But the move should stand. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Armandtanzarian ( talk • contribs).
If there is no consensus then why was it reverted? Because apparently the article started under "corn" in the first place and never should have been changed. How do you explain that Britannica, Encarta, Worldbook and Columbia have "Corn" article? Apparently there is more of a consensus that people like to pretend. 24.106.203.125 21:01, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
The result of the proposal was no consensus to move the page, per the discussion below. Dekimasu よ! 23:55, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
I have added a Requested Move tag to the top of this page, for all the reasons outlined on this page, especially the very compelling argument made under the "Calling BS" section. Counter-arguments are made and they are re-butted. I understand the Maizistas position: corn is an ambiguous term, maize means the same thing everywhere. If I can sum up the Cornies reply: the use of corn to mean "any grain" is either restricted to the UK, archaic or both. Maize is a bizarre and poorly understood word in most of the anglosphere.
If no consensus is found (and it won't be) we should solicit the opinion of a 3rd party editor (preferably a native english speaker who is neither American or British) or proceed with an informal mediation request, per WP:DR Armandtanzarian 22:46, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
Why on earth is this article called "maize" instead of "corn", isn't this the ENGLISH wikipedia????????? WacoJacko 06:00, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
Yes, 350 million native English speakers call this plant and its food product CORN. Only in Great Britain does corn mean 'grain.' English has a perfectly good name for 'grain'... it's GRAIN. It has been an English word since the 12th century. There should be a disambiguation page for MAIZE with the name of the color, the Spanish name of the grain, etc. As most English speakers on multiple continents use the everyday term CORN to mean this plant/grain, the head title of this page should really be changed. This is akin to calling FOOTBALL 'soccer'; most English speakers say FOOTBALL and that wiki page is titled FOOTBALL. Another reason is that the U.S. grows the most corn (maize) in the world, and natives here were growing corn (maize) before Europeans came. The term CORN is the most appropriate.
71.210.85.197Oct. 26, 2007 —Preceding comment was added at 21:57, 26 October 2007 (UTC)
I strongly object to Lurker's addition of the word "popularly" to the article's lead. The plant is known as corn in these countries, period. To say that it's "popularly known as corn in some countries" implies that "corn" is a term popularly used as an informal alternative to the formal term ("maize"). That simply isn't so. I'm holding a food label that lists "corn" (not "maize") as an ingredient.
In reverting my removal of this change, Lurker disputed my assertion that above connotation exists. I'm wondering, therefore, why it's problematic to simply state that the plant is "known as corn in some countries" and what distinction he/she seeks to convey by inserting the word "popularly." —
David Levy 11:49, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
I believe most of the issues here have already been solved. Still, this seems to have been a hot topic on some occasions. Again, please read what has already been said before adding your own two (metric/imperial) cents/pennies. -- era ( Talk | History) 03:00, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
I doubt anything has been solved 24.106.203.125 21:02, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
"The corn will ripen in October or early November;" in what country? should this be replaced with seasons instead? - -- Cyprus2k1 22:26, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)
User:Ezeu has complained that this article is too focused on the U.S.
shouldn't this be titledUK Bias vs International Bias? I'm Canadian and maize was Indian word for corn. But in Canada no Indians actually grew it so they called it corn too.-- 12.152.181.160 ( talk) 00:05, 3 February 2008 (UTC)
When maize was first introduced outside of the Americas it was typically welcomed enthusiastically by farmers everywhere for its productivity. However, a widespread problem of malnutrition soon arose wherever maize was introduced. This was a mystery since these types of malnutrition were not seen among the indigenous Americans under normal circumstances. citation needed
Commenting on the {{ Fact}} tag here: Are you asking us to prove that indigenous Americans did not suffer a specific form of malnutrition? Ancient societies are not generally known for writing down every ailment that they did not suffer from. Perhaps the burden of proof should be on the person who asserts that the indigenous Americans DID suffer malnutrition, as this is much more likely to be documented.
I removed this sentence because it doesn't seem to have anything to do with the article:
In 1940, Barbara McClintock received the Nobel Prize in Medicine for discovery of transposons while studying maize.
ike9898 15:31, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
Can somebody add some information (or write a new article) about baby corn please? I love that weird little freak of nature and would love to know more about it and its relation to regular corn.
the internet is an excellent source for fake information from lazy humans. the tallest stalk of maize that was ever grown was probably the "31'-even" stalk that was grown outside washington, iowa in 1946. the day that it was measured, the washington newspaper reported this precise height. look it up for yourself. end the circle of august ignorance.
According to this site "Don Radda of Washington grew the world's tallest corn stalk in 1946; it was thirty-one feet and three inches high." -- WormRunner | Talk 21:54, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
The "Maize" article states that "Worldwide production was over 600 million metric tons in 2003, just slightly more than rice or wheat."
The "Sweet Corn" article states that "Maize is the third most grown cereal crop in the world after rice and wheat."
I'm not sure which is correct, (or if 2003 is the most recent year for which data is available) but the articles should agree on which crop is grown in greater abundance. [[User:asdfa|asdfa] 16:52, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
say "use" in ...furnaces have been developed which uses maize...
Changes 2/11/06:
My latest edit should assuage some of Curtis Clark's concerns, and (I hope) make it more palatable to Rmhermen also.-- Zeamays 18:36, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
I think it should be divided up. Kaw in stl 21:37, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I removed the following text as it does not seem acurate and the reference given did not support it. Maize planted individually develops 2 to 4 ears. Modern farming techniques in developed countries usually rely on dense planting, which produces on average only about 0.9 ears per stalk because it stresses the plants. { http://maize.agron.iastate.edu/ears.html Signed Jeepday 16:26, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
I'd never heard of it before I stumbled across the article. But there is an article called corn construction. Sort of. Came here to suggest that the corn construction article is either improved or removed. I am a lemon 04:42, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
Why do corn grow slower then beans?
In March this page was moved here from Corn but nobody thought to move the Talk:Corn, consequently there is history which belongs here on a disambiguation page for corn. Anyone capable of a full history merge and willing to undertake it.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 02:37, 26 October 2007 (UTC)