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I'd never even heard of Louis' invasion of England and subsequent proclamation as King of England until relatively recently, and certainly never heard about it at school. Reader over the issue, it seems Louis has at least as much claim to be considered an "English monarch" as Lady Jane Grey who was also proclaimed monarch but never crowned. Isn't it funny how this second French invasion of England never gets mentioned? Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 18:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry I just meant to elaborate.I meant it ruled for 31 years.The treaty said The parties couldnt make peace without the permisstion of the three.Burgundy,France,England.-- HENRY V OF ENGLAND ( talk) 18:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
PS.How does one mistake apparently make my arguements Fallacious.Your remark is utter nonscence as it is based on false premises.And also I find your arguement on the truce of tours 1444 bieng forced on the english laughable.The English had needed peace since there last council in 1439 with both burgundy and France.The English made the reccomendation for a peace not Charles VII.It was decided that Maine-Anjou should be given over to Charles instead of the customary dowry to Margerat.There would be Two Frances with its own juristiction like in ancient times and each king shall be de facto kings over either the north or south and with no de jure kings.Please dont post nonscence especially with your point on the Congrass of Arras.As you made the elementry mistake of calling it a treaty it was in fact a congrass.More of your desciptive remarks is about the Congrass bieng in upper hand to the English.Thats what I call nonscence lol.Burgundy needed the his oath to the treaty and the treaty itself to be declared invalid.Burgundy forged an alliance with france until 1439 when they still recognized Charles as king but broke of the alliance with no ill will intentions to the three partys of English France,Burgundy and Valois France.Please dont give me bad attitude because its not niece is it? -- HENRY V OF ENGLAND ( talk) 18:46, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Go to your talk page,I have provided you with reference which refutes all your nonsensical claims.-- HENRY V OF ENGLAND ( talk) 01:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
But is it right to call him a pretender? That would only apply to someone who wasn't crowned. If someone is crowned, he is a crowned King, whether or not it is later seen as invalid. 92.7.162.208 ( talk) 17:00, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
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I had added on 29 August 2015 a succession box at the bottom of the page for Louis VIII that he was a "Disputed" King of England, which is true. However, User:Hchc2009 moved the title to "Titular" and changed the template, arguing that: "to be the King (disputed or otherwise), you needed to be coronated; see cited Carpenter source". This statement is absolutely wrong, at least as far as Wikipedia standards go. If this is the case, then please remove John I of France as a king, as well as Edward V of England and Edward VIII of England. None of them were crowned but modern historians consider them all kings. Being crowned does not make one king, which is why people like Philippe III of France were able to assert their royal authority before they were crowned. In fact, Louis VIII of France was the first Capetian king of France to not be crowned during his father's lifetime, which means he ruled uncoronated for a short time after Philippe II's death. Had Louis died prior to his coronation would he not be considered king? Absolutely not! He'd just be a very short-lived king. There is definitely precedent for kings to forego coronation or die before the ceremony, but that does not make them any less the king.
Louis VIII was a "disputed" king of England. The very fact that we are discussing this proves that fact. As a disputed king, he had actual power over a portion of England, power that was given to him by the barons. The fact that he had to sign a treaty denying he ever claimed the English throne is proof that he had claimed the English throne during this time. And the fact that we have dates for both his assumption of that claim and the abandonment of that claim further is evidence. Louis was a disputed king of England and I challenge you to argue his case was any different than
Napoleon II's or
Louis Antoine, Duke of Angoulême's, both of whom are considered "Disputed" emperor/king of France.
–
Darius von Whaleyland,
Great Khan
of the Barbarian Horde 22:32, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Can someone verify if Louis VIII was excommunicated by the pope, together with date and reason if possible? I found a short text that says, "His son Roger Bernard II ( The Great ) also assisted in the War of the Albigenses in their resistance of the French Kings Louis VIII and Louis X , both of whom were excommunicated". [1] But I can't find another source saying he was excommunicated. Some other sources say that Phillip II was.-- Thinker78 ( talk) 22:59, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
References
I propose as first sentence:
off-topic discussion per
WP:COLLAPSENO
|
---|
@ Thinker78: Kansas Bear is a longtime editor who has worked diligently for 14 years in a constructive and collegial manner to improve the encyclopedia. We hope that is your primary purpose here as well. Puerile comments such as can you chill with your accusations could lead your fellow editors to think otherwise. Eric talk 22:32, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
|
References
Cite error: There are <ref group=lower-alpha>
tags or {{efn}}
templates on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=lower-alpha}}
template or {{notelist}}
template (see the
help page).
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Louis VIII of France article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on July 14, 2008 and July 14, 2015. |
I'd never even heard of Louis' invasion of England and subsequent proclamation as King of England until relatively recently, and certainly never heard about it at school. Reader over the issue, it seems Louis has at least as much claim to be considered an "English monarch" as Lady Jane Grey who was also proclaimed monarch but never crowned. Isn't it funny how this second French invasion of England never gets mentioned? Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 18:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
Sorry I just meant to elaborate.I meant it ruled for 31 years.The treaty said The parties couldnt make peace without the permisstion of the three.Burgundy,France,England.-- HENRY V OF ENGLAND ( talk) 18:19, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
PS.How does one mistake apparently make my arguements Fallacious.Your remark is utter nonscence as it is based on false premises.And also I find your arguement on the truce of tours 1444 bieng forced on the english laughable.The English had needed peace since there last council in 1439 with both burgundy and France.The English made the reccomendation for a peace not Charles VII.It was decided that Maine-Anjou should be given over to Charles instead of the customary dowry to Margerat.There would be Two Frances with its own juristiction like in ancient times and each king shall be de facto kings over either the north or south and with no de jure kings.Please dont post nonscence especially with your point on the Congrass of Arras.As you made the elementry mistake of calling it a treaty it was in fact a congrass.More of your desciptive remarks is about the Congrass bieng in upper hand to the English.Thats what I call nonscence lol.Burgundy needed the his oath to the treaty and the treaty itself to be declared invalid.Burgundy forged an alliance with france until 1439 when they still recognized Charles as king but broke of the alliance with no ill will intentions to the three partys of English France,Burgundy and Valois France.Please dont give me bad attitude because its not niece is it? -- HENRY V OF ENGLAND ( talk) 18:46, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
Go to your talk page,I have provided you with reference which refutes all your nonsensical claims.-- HENRY V OF ENGLAND ( talk) 01:34, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
But is it right to call him a pretender? That would only apply to someone who wasn't crowned. If someone is crowned, he is a crowned King, whether or not it is later seen as invalid. 92.7.162.208 ( talk) 17:00, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
An image used in this article,
File:Louis8lelion.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
Wikimedia Commons in the following category: Media without a source as of 6 September 2011
Don't panic; a discussion will now take place over on Commons about whether to remove the file. This gives you an opportunity to contest the deletion, although please review Commons guidelines before doing so.
This notification is provided by a Bot -- CommonsNotificationBot ( talk) 06:21, 6 September 2011 (UTC) |
I had added on 29 August 2015 a succession box at the bottom of the page for Louis VIII that he was a "Disputed" King of England, which is true. However, User:Hchc2009 moved the title to "Titular" and changed the template, arguing that: "to be the King (disputed or otherwise), you needed to be coronated; see cited Carpenter source". This statement is absolutely wrong, at least as far as Wikipedia standards go. If this is the case, then please remove John I of France as a king, as well as Edward V of England and Edward VIII of England. None of them were crowned but modern historians consider them all kings. Being crowned does not make one king, which is why people like Philippe III of France were able to assert their royal authority before they were crowned. In fact, Louis VIII of France was the first Capetian king of France to not be crowned during his father's lifetime, which means he ruled uncoronated for a short time after Philippe II's death. Had Louis died prior to his coronation would he not be considered king? Absolutely not! He'd just be a very short-lived king. There is definitely precedent for kings to forego coronation or die before the ceremony, but that does not make them any less the king.
Louis VIII was a "disputed" king of England. The very fact that we are discussing this proves that fact. As a disputed king, he had actual power over a portion of England, power that was given to him by the barons. The fact that he had to sign a treaty denying he ever claimed the English throne is proof that he had claimed the English throne during this time. And the fact that we have dates for both his assumption of that claim and the abandonment of that claim further is evidence. Louis was a disputed king of England and I challenge you to argue his case was any different than
Napoleon II's or
Louis Antoine, Duke of Angoulême's, both of whom are considered "Disputed" emperor/king of France.
–
Darius von Whaleyland,
Great Khan
of the Barbarian Horde 22:32, 29 August 2015 (UTC)
Can someone verify if Louis VIII was excommunicated by the pope, together with date and reason if possible? I found a short text that says, "His son Roger Bernard II ( The Great ) also assisted in the War of the Albigenses in their resistance of the French Kings Louis VIII and Louis X , both of whom were excommunicated". [1] But I can't find another source saying he was excommunicated. Some other sources say that Phillip II was.-- Thinker78 ( talk) 22:59, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
References
I propose as first sentence:
off-topic discussion per
WP:COLLAPSENO
|
---|
@ Thinker78: Kansas Bear is a longtime editor who has worked diligently for 14 years in a constructive and collegial manner to improve the encyclopedia. We hope that is your primary purpose here as well. Puerile comments such as can you chill with your accusations could lead your fellow editors to think otherwise. Eric talk 22:32, 9 August 2022 (UTC)
|
References
Cite error: There are <ref group=lower-alpha>
tags or {{efn}}
templates on this page, but the references will not show without a {{reflist|group=lower-alpha}}
template or {{notelist}}
template (see the
help page).