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You can't be an alumnus or alumna and not have graduated; this is a contradiction in terms. -- Daniel C. Boyer 19:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps the definition found here will hold:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumni
"An alumnus (masculine) or alumna (feminine) of a college, university, or school is a former student. The plural is alumni for men and mixed groups and alumnae for women. The term is often mistakenly thought of as synonymous with "graduate." The words are derived from the Latin verb alere, "to nourish," and literally mean "nourished one"." - Jombl
The definition above is not listed at that URL anymore. It now says "An alumnus (plural alumni), according to the American Heritage Dictionary, is "a graduate of a school, college, or university".[1] " This supports the idea that a non-graduating alumni is a contradiction in terms = ChrisC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.210.183 ( talk) 19:15, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Should this list include notable people who died during their time at Harvard? Sinedu Tadesse seems to not fit with the rest of the list, but I lack npov. SuperKemp 17:44, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Why is this list seperate from the List of Harvard University people? That list includes several non-graduates - should they be here, or should this list be merged with that article? 172.213.5.133 15:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
"Non-graduate alumni" to most people means "those who didn't complete" rather than also including those who took summer schools or were visiting professors. Can the list be separated out so that those who didn't complete are separate from the rest? Timrollpickering 11:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
- The list has no "visiting professors". It is a list of notable people that were students but did not graduate, whether they were degree candidates or not.
- So what's a "Jackson Fellow"? Timrollpickering 20:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Not sure why there's a separate list for notable non-graduates, as they can be included in List of Harvard University people. That list isn't reserved for graduates. Gzkn 03:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- I completed the merge. I removed Kareena Kapoor, since she only attended a summer school course. In my opinion, we should not include people who attended summer school courses in this list (otherwise it would be even more bloated than it already is) as those who attend summer school are generally not considered to be affiliated with Harvard. Gzkn 05:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
There is a whole Category for just such lists as these.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Non-graduate_alumni
These lists exist because it contains largely trivial, but interesting information about "notable non-graduates". It's purpose is to have a seperate place for those who merely passed through.
It will be first neccesary to delete the ENTIRE category before you can so radically alter this again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.253.202.168 ( talk) 00:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
I left the merge message for five days. There were no responses. Thus I was bold and merged it. The name of the parent list is List of Harvard University people not Harvard University Alumni or Harvard University Graduates. The first sentence reads "This is a table of notable people affiliated with Harvard University, including graduates, former students, and professors." Thus, everyone in Notable_non-graduate_alumni_of_Harvard can be included in List of Harvard University people. There is no need for a separate list.
You said that "It will be first neccesary [sic] to delete the ENTIRE category before you can so radically alter this again." Uh, no. The category has nothing to do with the list. Gzkn 00:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
At an institution such as Harvard a distinction can be made between those who are truly members of the community and notable Harvard personages and between those, like Parsons or Raitt, who although notable in their own right have a connection to Harvard that is trivial in nature. A fine example of this can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notable_non-graduate_alumni_of_West_Point
It is of some interest, and well worth noting, that Edgar Allen Poe was expelled or that the first winner of Survivor, Richard Hatch dropped out. It does not however rise to the level of being notable to or with the institution itself.
This issue does not arise elsewhere when a community might not have an affiliation with such a long and deep history of notable people say here at John Belushi's school, or even perhaps at Yale :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Wisconsin-Whitewater
There are already problems in using the main Harvard list in sifting through Nobel Laureates, Presidents, powerful graduates, authors, artists and tutors to bother salting it with a number of people whose only claim to a link was to have written a check and passed through the Yard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.253.202.168 ( talk • contribs)
- Then perhaps the problem is with the main list including non-notable people affiliated with Harvard. Copied from your talk page: I don't think that just because a person is a non-graduate alumni, he/she only has a "trivial" connection to Harvard. For example, I wouldn't say Bill Gates has a trivial connection just because he dropped out. He was an integral part of the community and has donated the computer science building. List of Harvard University people doesn't exclude any of the people that don't graduate. It includes them, and makes note of their relationship very clearly. There's just no need for a separate list, duplicating the information. We could discuss different ways to present the information though on the main list if you want. Gzkn 03:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree. The list of "Harvard University People" should not include those who were not employed by or graduates of the University. The University list is no place for trivia like Pete Seeger, Bonnie Raitt or Matt Damon.
The link on the list to "Notable non-graduate alumni" is clear, logical and obvious. Dumping everything into a single massive page is not, you'll notice that "Harvard Presidents" has already been stripped off, would you now propose merge and deletion for that as well? 68.253.202.168 03:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmm...well I think that presidents of Harvard should be included in Harvard University People (it wouldn't make sense to delete the article though...it's more than just a list). But the larger issue is the name of the big list. It's all-inclusive. If we're going to deny non-graduates from appearing on Harvard University People, we had better rename the list to something more specific. Otherwise, it's pretty confusing why presidents of Harvard/notable non-graduates are not included in Harvard University People. Gzkn 03:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Actually, forget it. I just saw your post on Talk:List of Harvard University people:
Nearly thirty radical edits, deletions and redirects in just a few days is just way over the top. There was no need for radical surgery - nor the gut and butchering that was employed here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.253.202.168 ( talk) 00:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
I'm disappointed that you attack my good faith edits (which included slogging through the A's and parts of the B's and adding sources, removing nonnotable people, and reorganizing the lead) as "radical", "over the top", and "butchering". If you want to own this page, feel free. I'm done trying to improve this list. Gzkn 05:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Why is Alvaro Uribe on this list? He actually did graduate from Harvard.
- Eli Dershwitz, Under-20 World Saber Champion, and US Olympic saber fencer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 17.255.236.41 ( talk) 17:43, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
I guess the reason people have been adding Lil Pump (Gazzy Garcia) is that he is about to release a record called Harvard Dropout ( ref). -- Finlay McWalter··–· Talk 18:36, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- If he really had attended Harvard College he'd know they have no concept of dropping out.
E
Eng 18:42, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Same at MIT. When I left there before the end of my first year, they told me I could come back anytime. That was 45 years ago, and I often thought about returning, but never did.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 22:17, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Those Techies stole the idea from Harvard, of course.
E
Eng 22:32, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- At least we finally got our name on a "T" stop.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 23:45, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
- On the
Crimson Line, that is.
E
Eng 06:26, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- Yeah, the line where people were so upset at having to get off at... that school that shall not be named, the MBTA was forced to extend it. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 07:34, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- On the
Crimson Line, that is.
E
Eng 06:26, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- At least we finally got our name on a "T" stop.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 23:45, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
- Those Techies stole the idea from Harvard, of course.
E
Eng 22:32, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Same at MIT. When I left there before the end of my first year, they told me I could come back anytime. That was 45 years ago, and I often thought about returning, but never did.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 22:17, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
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You can't be an alumnus or alumna and not have graduated; this is a contradiction in terms. -- Daniel C. Boyer 19:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps the definition found here will hold:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alumni
"An alumnus (masculine) or alumna (feminine) of a college, university, or school is a former student. The plural is alumni for men and mixed groups and alumnae for women. The term is often mistakenly thought of as synonymous with "graduate." The words are derived from the Latin verb alere, "to nourish," and literally mean "nourished one"." - Jombl
The definition above is not listed at that URL anymore. It now says "An alumnus (plural alumni), according to the American Heritage Dictionary, is "a graduate of a school, college, or university".[1] " This supports the idea that a non-graduating alumni is a contradiction in terms = ChrisC — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.244.210.183 ( talk) 19:15, 3 April 2012 (UTC)
Should this list include notable people who died during their time at Harvard? Sinedu Tadesse seems to not fit with the rest of the list, but I lack npov. SuperKemp 17:44, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Why is this list seperate from the List of Harvard University people? That list includes several non-graduates - should they be here, or should this list be merged with that article? 172.213.5.133 15:28, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
"Non-graduate alumni" to most people means "those who didn't complete" rather than also including those who took summer schools or were visiting professors. Can the list be separated out so that those who didn't complete are separate from the rest? Timrollpickering 11:00, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
- The list has no "visiting professors". It is a list of notable people that were students but did not graduate, whether they were degree candidates or not.
- So what's a "Jackson Fellow"? Timrollpickering 20:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
Not sure why there's a separate list for notable non-graduates, as they can be included in List of Harvard University people. That list isn't reserved for graduates. Gzkn 03:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
- I completed the merge. I removed Kareena Kapoor, since she only attended a summer school course. In my opinion, we should not include people who attended summer school courses in this list (otherwise it would be even more bloated than it already is) as those who attend summer school are generally not considered to be affiliated with Harvard. Gzkn 05:48, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
There is a whole Category for just such lists as these.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Non-graduate_alumni
These lists exist because it contains largely trivial, but interesting information about "notable non-graduates". It's purpose is to have a seperate place for those who merely passed through.
It will be first neccesary to delete the ENTIRE category before you can so radically alter this again. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.253.202.168 ( talk) 00:01, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
I left the merge message for five days. There were no responses. Thus I was bold and merged it. The name of the parent list is List of Harvard University people not Harvard University Alumni or Harvard University Graduates. The first sentence reads "This is a table of notable people affiliated with Harvard University, including graduates, former students, and professors." Thus, everyone in Notable_non-graduate_alumni_of_Harvard can be included in List of Harvard University people. There is no need for a separate list.
You said that "It will be first neccesary [sic] to delete the ENTIRE category before you can so radically alter this again." Uh, no. The category has nothing to do with the list. Gzkn 00:44, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
At an institution such as Harvard a distinction can be made between those who are truly members of the community and notable Harvard personages and between those, like Parsons or Raitt, who although notable in their own right have a connection to Harvard that is trivial in nature. A fine example of this can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Notable_non-graduate_alumni_of_West_Point
It is of some interest, and well worth noting, that Edgar Allen Poe was expelled or that the first winner of Survivor, Richard Hatch dropped out. It does not however rise to the level of being notable to or with the institution itself.
This issue does not arise elsewhere when a community might not have an affiliation with such a long and deep history of notable people say here at John Belushi's school, or even perhaps at Yale :)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/University_of_Wisconsin-Whitewater
There are already problems in using the main Harvard list in sifting through Nobel Laureates, Presidents, powerful graduates, authors, artists and tutors to bother salting it with a number of people whose only claim to a link was to have written a check and passed through the Yard. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.253.202.168 ( talk • contribs)
- Then perhaps the problem is with the main list including non-notable people affiliated with Harvard. Copied from your talk page: I don't think that just because a person is a non-graduate alumni, he/she only has a "trivial" connection to Harvard. For example, I wouldn't say Bill Gates has a trivial connection just because he dropped out. He was an integral part of the community and has donated the computer science building. List of Harvard University people doesn't exclude any of the people that don't graduate. It includes them, and makes note of their relationship very clearly. There's just no need for a separate list, duplicating the information. We could discuss different ways to present the information though on the main list if you want. Gzkn 03:08, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree. The list of "Harvard University People" should not include those who were not employed by or graduates of the University. The University list is no place for trivia like Pete Seeger, Bonnie Raitt or Matt Damon.
The link on the list to "Notable non-graduate alumni" is clear, logical and obvious. Dumping everything into a single massive page is not, you'll notice that "Harvard Presidents" has already been stripped off, would you now propose merge and deletion for that as well? 68.253.202.168 03:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
- Hmmm...well I think that presidents of Harvard should be included in Harvard University People (it wouldn't make sense to delete the article though...it's more than just a list). But the larger issue is the name of the big list. It's all-inclusive. If we're going to deny non-graduates from appearing on Harvard University People, we had better rename the list to something more specific. Otherwise, it's pretty confusing why presidents of Harvard/notable non-graduates are not included in Harvard University People. Gzkn 03:38, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Actually, forget it. I just saw your post on Talk:List of Harvard University people:
Nearly thirty radical edits, deletions and redirects in just a few days is just way over the top. There was no need for radical surgery - nor the gut and butchering that was employed here. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.253.202.168 ( talk) 00:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
I'm disappointed that you attack my good faith edits (which included slogging through the A's and parts of the B's and adding sources, removing nonnotable people, and reorganizing the lead) as "radical", "over the top", and "butchering". If you want to own this page, feel free. I'm done trying to improve this list. Gzkn 05:37, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Why is Alvaro Uribe on this list? He actually did graduate from Harvard.
- Eli Dershwitz, Under-20 World Saber Champion, and US Olympic saber fencer — Preceding unsigned comment added by 17.255.236.41 ( talk) 17:43, 1 August 2016 (UTC)
I guess the reason people have been adding Lil Pump (Gazzy Garcia) is that he is about to release a record called Harvard Dropout ( ref). -- Finlay McWalter··–· Talk 18:36, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- If he really had attended Harvard College he'd know they have no concept of dropping out.
E
Eng 18:42, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Same at MIT. When I left there before the end of my first year, they told me I could come back anytime. That was 45 years ago, and I often thought about returning, but never did.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 22:17, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Those Techies stole the idea from Harvard, of course.
E
Eng 22:32, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- At least we finally got our name on a "T" stop.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 23:45, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
- On the
Crimson Line, that is.
E
Eng 06:26, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- Yeah, the line where people were so upset at having to get off at... that school that shall not be named, the MBTA was forced to extend it. Beyond My Ken ( talk) 07:34, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- On the
Crimson Line, that is.
E
Eng 06:26, 3 February 2018 (UTC)
- At least we finally got our name on a "T" stop.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 23:45, 2 February 2018 (UTC)
- Those Techies stole the idea from Harvard, of course.
E
Eng 22:32, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- Same at MIT. When I left there before the end of my first year, they told me I could come back anytime. That was 45 years ago, and I often thought about returning, but never did.
Beyond My Ken (
talk) 22:17, 1 February 2018 (UTC)
- List-Class List articles
- Unknown-importance List articles
- WikiProject Lists articles
- List-Class Higher education articles
- WikiProject Higher education articles
- List-Class United States articles
- Unknown-importance United States articles
- List-Class United States articles of Unknown-importance
- List-Class Massachusetts articles
- Unknown-importance Massachusetts articles
- WikiProject Massachusetts articles
- List-Class Boston articles
- Unknown-importance Boston articles
- WikiProject Boston articles
- WikiProject United States articles