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Fairly significant, no?

-G —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.24.152.230 ( talk) 00:09, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

• Here's a userbox for Lisa fans: {{ User:Gran2/Userbox Lisa}}

It says in the article that she plays a Baritone Sax - based on the sound. I believe she has only ever played the Tenor Sax and once or possibly twice the Alto sax. I think this should be based on shape not on 'sound'. Tanru 08:09, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Baritone sax is an awful big instrument for a girl her age and size as the article mentions. I don't recall them saying what kind of sax she played so baritone seems like an odd supposition unless this is official in the show. Now if she does play baritone she might be the most famous baritone player currently out there. I mean there are real baritone saxophonists who are famous in jazz, but most of the jazz saxophonists who are known to the public are alto or occasionally tenor.-- T. Anthony 08:27, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

I Think tenor is more popular. Anyway, Lisa plays Bari. You can tell by listening.AV( 207.225.143.253 17:15, 6 June 2007 (UTC))

She's a fictional character and doesn't have to abide with reality. I doubt the creators payed exceptional attention to the type of saxophone she played.-- |K.Z|Z.K| Do not vandalize... 04:46, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

It's always a baritone, apart from the season 1 opening sequence. If you know the instuments you can clearly tell their timbres apart. — Mütze 09:13, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

I have sent mail to that address it uses invalid characters.

• That's mentioned in the article. They purposefully used invalid characters.

From the episode with Frank Grimes, wasn't it revealed Lisa's IQ is 156? (Although, I do remember a separate 159 IQ reference) Q0 09:38, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

• Yeah, it's mentioned in Smart and Smarter from season 15 that it's 159.
• [1] mentions that Lisa's IQ was stated to be 156 in the episode "Homer's Enemy". So Lisa's IQ appears to be two different scores in two different episodes.
  • I guess that's just a goof on the writers' part, the same way Homer's age is both 36 and 39 in different episodes. -- Kaizersoze 02:00, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
    • Actually it was stated on a commentary they intentionally raised Homer's age as they thoght 36 was way too young for his physical apperance.
      • I think it's possible for someone's I.Q. to change 3 points. In a span of one year, mine went up from 129 to 136.

um... IQ never goes up... it actually gets lower as you get older... and as far as Lisa's IQ goes, anyone that watches the show should know better than expect any number for anything to stay the same from one episode to another... - Adolphus79 21:59, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Wrong, mate. You are imprecise in your assessment re: IQ: it doesn't get "lower" (theoretically), it norms to a more standardized grade. As I'm certain one with your level of expertise knows, there are variables that produce controversy within the validity of IQ (Gaussian distribution; Stephen Gould's beliefs, etc...), so its difficult for even trained professionals to produce a clear assessment of intelligence. And as far as your "anyone who watches the show" statement re: numbers, please note that Frink's and Comic Book Guy's IQ have remained constant (199 (the "198...197..." was there for comedic effect...)and 170, respectively.) Thanks for the note, though.... -- 206.40.119.252 10:05, 21 July 2006 (UTC) Aaron 7.21.2006

I took an IQ test twice in two days, the second time it went up 7 points-- Andy mci 08:48, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Middle name of Marie.. Source??

• In Lisa's Wedding, the wedding invitations indicate her name as "Lisa Marie"
• It is also confirmed that her initials are LMS in The Monkey Suit... - Adolphus79 09:58, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
• The Simpsons trivia game uses her middle name as a sample question on the box, giving the answer as "Marie."

Although Lisa's middle name is Marie, as shown in Lisa's Wedding, in one of The Simpsons Book, there are interviews with Matt Groening, and he states that everyone in the Simpson's family has a surname beginning with "J"

The old version of this article, concerning the simpsons gene, is incorrect. It is revealed that the gene is located in the Y chromosome in one episode; Lisa does not have one, thus she cannot have the gene. I have added a link to the Y chromosome article.

Interestingly, very few disorders are caused by defects on the Y chromosome as it has very few genes. Most are linked to the X chromosome. Women are usually protected from suffering them by having two copies of this (one of them normal). Its hard being a male:D-- ChrisJMoor 00:04, 26 May 2005 (UTC)It's especially hard being a male that likes other males and dresses!

She is a character in The Simpsons, one of the TV shows made in the U.S. --ZachKudrna18@yahoo.com

• Um, duh. tregoweth 03:03, 16 December 2005 (UTC) E-mail MATT GEROENING AT damnyouasholes@yahoo.com

I think the intro, before the contents, on this article is way too long, being more than half the article. Could this be shortened to give a brief description, just like with Bart?

how come noone ever mentions lisa has braces? an entire episode revolves around it!(last exit to springfield)

Very few of the per-episode developments ever show up in canon. Most (or at least many) of the storylines that would change the dynamics or add info to the show ongoingly are just dropped after the episode in question.-- Anchoress 13:05, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

But actually, now that I think of it she got those invisible Calvin Klein braces, so maybe they're just invisibly doing their thing.-- Anchoress 13:09, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

OK... Anyone interested in helping cleanup the Simpsons information, join the WikiProject... if we can all work together, instead of different editors working on different pages, we can get all the Simpsons information on all of Wikipedia organized... - Adolphus79 10:08, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

I don't know that it's entirely accurate to say that Lisa tried smoking with older girls in the 'bad girls' bathroom'... to my recollection, when they gave her a cigarette, she tucked it behind her ear and said she'd smoke it in class. Her hesitation to take the cig and reluctance to smoke it with the other girls right then suggested that she didn't intend to smoke it at all. Although it's impossible to prove a negative (that she didn't smoke it), I don't think she's ever been depicted actually smoking.-- Anchoress 13:03, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Well, in the episode where Moe's bar was closed and Homer re-fashioned his own home, he shoved a cig into Lisa's mouth and also lit it. Lisa doesn't look very happy. I'm not sure whether this already counts as smoking. -- Prorokini 17:41, 2 September 2006 (UTC)

Dear lord.... I didn't realize how much of a beating poor Lisa's wiki's taken these past couple of months. I'm going to personally concentrate cleaning up...expanding...and at the same time condensing this page as best as I can within the next few days (I'm quite busy at the moment so I have to do it little by little).

Here's some glaring things I want to take care of:

-Proper condensing of information among the sections. Lisa's vegetarianism gets a whole section but its less than two lines long? Meanwhile...that giganormous section over her religion...I'm going to look it over and try very hard to keep as much of the relevant...juicy info as I can. But so far it looks needlessly long...I'm thinking Lisa's "belief's" can all be properly shortened and put into on category.

-Her Profile isn't nearly as descriptive as it could or should be.

-Her acomplishments list has got to be shortened. She does a lot of things...but its not necessary to list absolutely everything. Maybe her most notable actions...and then a blurb about how she does many other things

-Now I like to keep interesting information if I can help it...but there's some stuff on this wiki that not even I can vouch the validity of.

-Lots of grammar, cleaning up of red links, splitting etc.

-Add some additional info here and there to flesh things out if its not too long.

I re-added the Future catagory. I have no idea why this was removed...I had to go really far back to retrieve it. Sounds like zealous, unflattering wiki-cleaning...but regardless its back. I'll clean that up to. I'll maybe add an additional screen shot or two in the end if everything looks nice. I'm basically going to rewrite this whole thing...because this wiki really needs it.-- Kiyosuki 00:04, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

Whew, Lisa's a complicated character....this'll take longer than I thought. Heh, give me a bit longer.-- Kiyosuki 09:49, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

she has had both her 8th and 9th b-days in the show

• Lisa has had several birthdays, but after her eighth they stopped counting.

I'm not sure what "non-canon" means, but the "swedish" Lisa is supposed to use in "Treehouse of Horror XIV" makes no sense at all and can never be used as a proof for her fluently in swedish.

• Non-canon means that it isn't considered as really having happened. There's also the fact that she was reading from a script in the Swedish film, and that the scene was deleted.

it was not swedish, i speak swedish, in that halloween episode it did not sound like swedish, belive me swedish sound much more like english than you think.

Wearing a watch on the hand you write with is not proof of cross-dominance. Is there any specific time they mention her ambidexterity? -- Onorem 18:09, 9 August 2006 (UTC)

• Well...I asked 2 months ago and there's been no response. I'm going to take the ambidextrous comment out of the trivia section for now. Feel free to add it back in if there's evidence to support it. -- Onorem 11:26, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Where exactly is it said that Lisa is "exceptionally plump?" The episode where she thinks she has a weight problem? I thought the point of that one was to illustrate the problem of young girls who think they are obese and have weight problems, when in fact they do not. I can't think of any example of where Lisa has been called "plump."

There is the episode with Alison i think her name was, (played by that actress from Friends), where she told Lisa she could "Lose five pounds". But I doubt that's important. Guitarhero91 00:08, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

In the episode "Girls just want to have sums" it is shown that Lisa has a round stomach, as well as this, she is repeatedly shown as being round in her standard swimsuit. Logically, if Bart is overweight, then Lisa, who like Bart follows a mostly sedentry lifestyle, would be overweight too. I think that "exceptionally plump" is too much, "mildly overweight" may be a better way of phrasing it. (J.Benbow, Oxford Brookes 19th September 2007) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.73.40.157 ( talk) 21:26, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

lisa get a+ in evry school parts, plays an instrument (possibly more) can speak many langues and seems to even smarter than martin (his iq is 216) and more mature than any adults seen in the show, all that in just one little pre-pubertal girl is scary, in fact i like lisa least of all main characters in the simpsons because her completly non possibly skills and behavior. If she had any kind weekness i would like her.

Ok mate, several things wrong with your argument.

1. Did you not see " Lisa on Ice"? She was failing gym, and sucked at every sport she did, apart from Ice Hockey.
2. In " Kamp Krusty", she got a B in conduct.
3. She is smarter than Martin.
4. Where did you see Martin's IQ? Because I doubt its 216.
5. If it is then you've defeated yourself because in " Homer's Enemy" her IQ is apparent 156.
6. I always thought that Professot Frink was the smartest character, as his IQ IS 197.
7. She's intelligent!
8. She's a child prodigy!
9. She's meant to be more mature than most adults

And most importantly....

10. She is a FICTIONAL cartoon character. It doesn't have to make complete sence. By most standards Lisa is incredibly believeable. I mean does bats talking and bears wearing hats seem normal to you? Gran2 14:56, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

In addition to that, there's the aforementioned self-righteousness Lisa has, her antisocial tendencies, and her sometimes over-the-top rivalry with Bart. She has plenty of weaknesses, and intelligence is no reason to dislike someone, fictional or not. Also, this isn't a message board for the character, it's for her page. If you want to spill your hatred for a character, find a fan site where it's actually suitable. Raenbow

Does Lisa have an eating disorder? If not, remove her from that category because being vegetarian doesn't count. - Ndrly 04:22, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

She had one, but only for one episode.-- AmitTheSomthing 22:16, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

but at the end she sayed it would take a long time to go away after homer was trying to get her to say its all ok before the end -- Sailor cuteness

And besides, being a vegetarian does count.=P-- AmitTheSomthing 20:55, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

What eating disorder does she have? Vitual aelita ( talk) 00:45, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Yes I know she is a fictional character. But wikipedia must be truthful. Lisa is not really, in reality, in Mesna. She doesn't pay dues, never took an IQ test etc. Please discuss this before I edit that category (member of mensa) out. Thank you. Tstrobaugh 01:00, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

I believe that you should remove her from that category, at least she should be portrayed as a "Fictional" member of Mensa as with other categories. An user 2 PM February 2007

God you people are nerds.

Sensemaker writes: Original text says: "She is a high-ranking member of Mensa Springfield". I have changed this to "She is a member of Mensa Springfield". We do not have ranks in mensa (it isn't the freemasons, you know) and as far as I can make out, they do not have it in fictional Mensa Springfield either. -Sensemaker

Doesn't this article repeat itself a bit? -- Taraborn 21:07, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

This has to be one of the worst wiki pages ever. F- material. A total rewrite is neccessary. I wish the people who did the Jack Sparrow wiki page (which is just incredible) would come and fix this up.

So it says here that Lisa's birthday is either September 28th or May 9th, 1981, which is supposedly two years and thirty eight days younger than Bart. However, on Bart's page, it mentions that his birthday is April 25th, 1979. This can mean one of two things:

• Bart's actual birthday is April 1st (quite fitting)
• Lisa's actual birthday is June 2nd

sooooo which is it?

Bart's birthday can't be April 1st. If you see "So It's Come to This: A Simpsons Clip Show" where Homer and Bart did April Fool's jokes on each other, it doesn't mention anything about Bart's birthday at all. But it is the Simpsons, anyway... 137.205.24.140 23:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

It is established that The Simpsons is not time consistent, so such calculations are both WP:OR and meaningless. Is Lisa 26 years old on the show (but still 4' tall, in grade school, and living with her parents), or is the show set perpetually in 1989 (with 90s and 00s personalities and situations travelling back in time to interact with the Simpson family)?

This has become an issue on several Simpsons character pages. It's a cartoon. Lisa has had three 8th birthdays. The characters are not real people.

Bart's birthdate was listed in some non-canonical source as April 1 — it's considered a prank, and not to be taken seriously. Pinning down birthdates limits potential storylines; for example, a story with a summer birthday wouldn't be able to have snow naturally on the ground. It is unlikely the producers would limit themselves without good reason. / edgarde 18:15, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Can someone help with episode citations for some of Lisa's political beliefs, especially those expressed on more than one episode. I seem to remember her being pro-union ^{citation needed}. What else?

I'd like to list them here before appending to the article, but whatever is well-sourced can go right in. / edgarde 16:55, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

About Lisa's religious beliefs: I remember an episode in which the family is in the church and priest asks 'are there believers in here?' (or similar) and lisa alone shouts 'No' and all the other people shout 'Yes'. So Lisa could be an atheist (well buddhism is kinda non-theistic religion). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.114.228.123 ( talk) 23:20, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

In Bart to the Future, she was POTUS. Anyone have any objection to the category?-- Folksong 02:49, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we avoid adding categories that only relate to one episode. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 02:50, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes, same objection, same reason. Because of the quantity of situations over 18+ years, The Simpsons characters can cruft up the categories considerably. / edgarde 02:56, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Any objection to "Characters introduced in 1987"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.17.62.211 ( talk) 22:42, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

"Lisa began to develop into a more intelligent and more emotional character with " Krusty Gets Busted" being one of the first episodes where her true intelligence is fully shown."

I don't see what the problem with that sentence is, and I don't see how it says that "Intelligence equals emotional instability". Is there something I'm missing? -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 15:23, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

and thus more emotinal [2] is wrong for the reasons stated in the edit. "Emotional" is just vague. If that's the language in the commentary, I suppose we'll have to use it — might be better stated as a brief quote. / edg ☺ ★ 16:25, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

I ask for keeping the link to LTS forum ( http://www.lisa-simpson.net/). It's important enough for the article since it's the only forum solely dedicated to the character under question, and a part of useful information about the character. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.103.192.27 ( talk) 06:25, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

While I thank you for bringing this to the talk page, you still shouldn't have added the link back; two editors have removed it. Contested material is added after a consensus to include it has been formed, not before. That being said, the link is to a non-notable, fan-run forum and as such is inappropriate for Wikipedia. faithless (^speak) 06:32, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

NHC isn't linked from The Simpsons and it has its own page. It's just a forum anyway, and generally we avoid linking to them as it often seems like advertising. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 06:44, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

NHC is a general Simpsons forum, while LTS is a special Lisa Simpson forum. You mentioned WP:EL, forum section. I must note that there is an exception: "Except for a link to a page that is the subject of the article" which allows my link perfectly. Notability of the site is not that important here; it's not a whole article, just a link in the External Links section.

Yes, but the guidelines laid down at WP:RS also count in this matter. The site wouldn't be useable as a source, so it's also not useable as an EL. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 06:48, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't have to be a reliable source since it's not a part of the article text; the link itself also specifies that it's a fan forum. There is a phrase on WP:SR: "This page is considered a content guideline", i.e. it's applied to the article contents; not the contents of the external sites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.103.192.27 ( talk) 06:51, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It's a forum that discusses Lisa, not a page about Lisa. It may be relevant to the text, but it's still a small forum with less than 200 members and if we link to it, we'd have to link to dozens of other small forums with 200 members. As well, you seem to be forgetting three VERY important guidelines in the "Links normally to be avoided" section of WP:EL:

Any site that does not provide a unique resource beyond what the article would contain if it became a Featured article

Links mainly intended to promote a website.

Links to social networking sites, discussion forums/groups or USENET.

So there you go. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 06:59, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Hmm. I already mentioned above that that section reserves an exception, and this forum falls into that exception perfectly. Please read my comment about WP:EL above. And no, you won't have to link to 200 sites about Lisa because there are no 200 sites about Lisa. And if there are few sites dedicated solely to Lisa Simpson, they should be mentioned in the article dedicated to her, because it's still an important information. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.103.192.27 ( talk) 07:03, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

No it doesn't because the site is not about Lisa, it's for discussion about her. People who go there would not learn anything unless they joined your forum and started posting, so therefore it's advertising. And, by the way, three parts of WP:EL support the removal of the link, whereas only one sorta supports its inclusion. I am finished with this discussion. If you can find an experienced editor who agrees with you, then that's one thing, but before you go asking for people at the forum to come here, read WP:MEAT. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 07:08, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

You didn't convince me. Even if a link looks like an advertising, that shouldn't be the only reason for reverting the edit. And your phrase "it's not about Lisa, it's for discussing" is not convincing either. Forums, like Wikipedia, allow posting information. Prove that LTS doesn't have any information about Lisa Simpson and has only discussions about her, then I will agree. Otherwise, I will consider your reverts violations of the WP rules. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.103.192.27 ( talk) 07:16, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

First off, policy is against you because somebody would have to join your forum in order to discuss her. The Simpsons Archive is about Lisa Simpson. Your forum is for discussion. As well, two registered users disagree which gives us consensus. Please do not push the issue as you will be reverted and the page will have to be protected. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 07:20, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

You was talking about the information just five minutes ago... a visitor DOES NOT have to register on LTS to read that information.

"Please do not push the issue as you will be reverted and the page will have to be protected." You're threatening me, right? Because you can't formally ground your reverts? It means that you're wrong.

"And, by the way, three parts of WP:EL support the removal of the link, whereas only one sorta supports its inclusion." That's completely incorrect because the exception goes before the list and covers it... read the rules carefully please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.103.192.27 ( talk) 07:20, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Two users against one is not a consensus! And it doesn't matter who's registered and who's not.

But they have to register to participate. Look, the guidelines explicitely exclude forums. Would you like me to get an expert in such issues to come here and explain this to you? -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 07:24, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, I'd like to see one. So far, you can't convince me at all, although I try to understand your reasons.

My reasons:

1. It's a fan forum meant for discussion
2. Forums are explicitely forbidden at WP:EL
3. It's advertising (Links normally to be avoided #4)
4. It could not be used as a source in an FA (Links normally to be avoided #1)
5. A user has to register to participate in the discussion
6. It is a small forum with less than 200 members. If it was the equivilant of NHC then it might be different
7. "What should be linked" says "Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews." However, there is no indication that the site provides any of those things, at least, not in a way that would pass WP:RS.
8. This is an encyclopedia, not an directory to various websites about a subject.

Satisfied? -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 07:35, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

No. You keep saying the same, we already discussed that (I argued #1-#7 already, and #8 alone is not enough).

Forums are explicitly forbidden because all they offer is fancruft and baseless speculation. Nothing written there is acceptable for inclusion into Wikipedia, and therefore should not be linked. Your remarks have been unfriendly, bordering on hostile. You haven't even given a reason why the site should be linked. Do you have one? faithless (^speak) 07:32, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean by no reason? The reason is in my first message. This is a 1) the resource dedicated solely to the character the article is about; 2) the unique resource, i.e. there is no second forum like that. And about hostility... your comments were much more alienating here than mine (and honestly, you can't ground your reasons with WP rules properly). I ask either for a public poll about this link, or some qualified specialist's opinion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.103.192.27 ( talk) 07:40, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

That's not true. Your site offers links to several other Lisa related websites. And your misinterpreting the guideline. It says Sites with other meaningful, relevant content that is not suitable for inclusion in an article, such as reviews and interviews and there is no indication that your site offers those while still passing WP:RS. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 07:43, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

(sigh) I give up. You couldn't convince me and honestly, I've got a bad impression about Wikipedia with this discussion. Looks like you can't properly interpret your own rules - no offense.

You still have not given a reason. Should every page on the world wide web regarding Lisa Simpson be added to the External links? That's what you're suggesting. Secondly, I have been nothing but friendly to you; I called your original edit good faith in the edit summary, I've been perfectly cordial on this talk page. However, you are an IP editor, clearly unfamiliar with Wikipedia, who has insulted two regulars by implying that we don't understand Wikipedia guidelines while simultaneously suggesting that you yourself are well versed. faithless (^speak) 07:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Not every; but the section shouldn't contain only one link either. External links are intended to provide additional information that doesn't exist in the article; but you decline links because the linked sites are different from Wikipedia. This is not logical... maybe you should try and leave the link and look what happens; if the page gets spammed with links, then you're right, but if there will be only 3 or 4 fair links, that would mean that you're exaggerating a lot.

"clearly unfamiliar with Wikipedia" - you're wrong here again :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.103.192.27 ( talk) 08:03, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I don't mean this as an insult in any way, and hope you don't take it as such, but you think forums are okay to list under external links, you don't know sign your posts with four tildes (even after being asked to), you've flaunted several guidelines and policies (whilst calling them "rules") and according to your contribution history you have made edits only to this article and talk page. All of this indicates an unfamiliarity with WP. But this is irrelevant. I'm replying only to refute your assertion that I am "wrong...again," which is particularly odd as I don't recall being "wrong" in the first place. In the future I would suggest considering the possibility that those of us who are regulars around here might know how things work. I'd say that this matter is closed now. If you have anything further to say to me personally, please feel free to do so on my talk page. Cheers, faithless (^speak) 09:58, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I'll chime in. Most every thing has been covered. Heres the policy. Links to social networking sites (such as MySpace), discussion forums/groups (such as Yahoo! Groups) or USENET are not allowed per the External links policy and are Links normally to be avoided. Its not the official page of the articles subject and Fails WP:RS. It appears to have only 158 Members which isn't a unique resource. External links policy on Advertising and conflicts of interest states You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent. Unfortunately your conflict of interest editing here involves contributing to Wikipedia in order to promote lisa-simpson.net. Such a conflict is strongly discouraged. Your contributions to wikipedia under 87.103.192.27, consist entirely of adding the external link lisa-simpson.net. Looking through your contributions as a whole, the all seem to be lisa-simpson.net related only. Please do not continue adding this link. It has become apparent that your IP are only being used for spamming inappropriate external links and for self-promotion. Wikipedia is NOT a " repository of links" or a " vehicle for advertising" and persistent spammers will have their websites blacklisted. Any further spamming may result in your account and/or your IP address being blocked from editing Wikipedia. Please see the welcome page and Wikipedia:Civility. Avoid breaching relevant policies and guidelines. You're here to improve Wikipedia -- not just to promote lisa-simpson.net right? -- Hu12 08:17, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

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This review is transcluded from Talk:Lisa Simpson/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

I really liked reviewing the Bart Simpson article, so I thought I'd have a go at this one, too. Here are some suggestions:

• "In " Lisa the Vegetarian", her increasing sense of moral righteousness regarding her vegetarianism leads her to proselytize, culminating in her disruption of a "meat-based" barbecue prepared by Homer, an act she comes to rue." - I know this isn't simple wikipedia, but I am not sure the average reader would know the meaning of some of these words.
  • Okay, I've simplified it.
• The Wind in the Willows needs a season/episode cite
  • Actually, the Wind in the Willows is referring to the actual book, not an episode. I added the word novel in front of it.
• including the most recent, The Simpsons Game - time dependent
  • Fixed.
• Is there anything more reliable for the awards than the IMDB?
  • Yes, but I used IMDB because otherwise I would have to use a commentary or Newsbank, and I have always preferred to use online sources first. I've added a commentary ref.

That's it! Another well written article. :) Nikki 311 21:07, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the review. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 22:00, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Ok Great. Pass. Nikki 311 01:21, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Can I ask why David X. Cohen when mentioned in the article is mentioned by his (correct, but recognizably redundant) middle initial as S., rather than X.? Apterygial ( talk) 02:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I guess cause S is his real middle initial? CTJF83 Talk 07:35, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Exactly. But he is always credited as David X. Cohen, even in the article's references. And it's what he's generally known as. It's even what his Wikipedia page is called. Apterygial ^talk _stalk ^{insane idea} 09:41, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

At the time he wrote tht episode though, he was credited as David S. Cohen. He became known as David X. Cohen after leaving The Simpsons. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 14:11, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, thanks. That answers my question. Apterygial ^talk _stalk ^{insane idea} 23:54, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

She was very political in the movie, with all the environment stuff. Also in Hit and Run, when ever she greets someone she says "Vote Democrat". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Populer208 ( talk • contribs) 10:33, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

"The Simpsons uses a floating timeline in which the characters do not physically age; as such, Lisa is always depicted as eight years old." Wasn't she seven in the first two seasons, before turning 8 in Stark Raving Dad? IAmTheCoinMan ( talk) 12:55, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

Nope, she's been eight all the time. The beginning of that episode was an exception. The leftorium 15:09, 15 February 2010 (UTC)

This article is looking good. I think it's thin on critical sources, which need to be added more thoroughly before it's sent to FAC. (More on this below.) In general, the structure is solid (with one exception, noted in the second bullet point below), and the prose is good. The following questions and suggestions are for your benefit; no need to get my approval to change or ignore them.

• In general, writing about literature should use the present tense ("Juliet kills herself when she finds Romeo dead"). I assume other Simpsons articles have guidelines about how to write about the episodes and events of the show? (I've been putting the prose into present tense, but perhaps the standard is different?)
  • No, the standard is the same. I think other users have been changing the text to past tense.
    • I read through and fixed what I saw. CTJF83 chat 21:49, 28 February 2010 (UTC)
• What is the difference between the sections "Role in The Simpsons" and "Personality"? They seem very similar to me, and I'm inclined to suggest combining them. (Some of the points made are repeated in both, such as her intellectual acumen.)
  • I'll try to make them different.

• Someone mentioned in the last FAC that many of the sources are primary (ie, citing the DVDs). This is fine for general info (her relationship with Nelson, for example), but when we get to statements like "Lisa is the most intellectual member of the Simpson family", we need a secondary source. (David Cohen's comments are a good start, but if we're only relying on him, we should reword it like: "The writers of the show consider her Lisa the most intellectual member of the Simpson family". But of course we should be able to find a secondary source that discusses her intellectualism.)
  • But shouldn't the writers be the best source that she is the most intellectual member? After all, they made her that way.

I think you should pull more from Planet Simpson and other books whenever possible. I was surprised to see no mention of The World According to The Simpsons: What Our Favorite TV Family Says about Life, Love, and the Pursuit of the Perfect Donut by Steven Keslowitz. ( ISBN  1402206550)

Okay, I'll see what I can do later.

• Lisa and the Simpson family remained the main characters on this new show. This feels like a meaningless sentence. Surely we can find some other way to end this paragraph. (Something like "Within three years (or however long it was) it was the top-rated cartoon show in the US.")

• in the later seasons, no character other than Maggie shares her hairline Isn't this true of the early seasons too? I'm wondering what the purpose of that "in the later seasons" phrase is. (And I can't think of anyone in early seasons who had their hairline.)
  • It's because in the first few seasons, a lot of background characters would use a lot of the same characteristics as the main characters. I can change this.
• To draw Lisa's head and hair, most of the animators use what they refer to as the "three-three-two arrangement". For future reference: it's a good idea in general to use fewer words. Thus, instead of "what they refer to as", just write "what they call". (I've fixed this.)

• The first two paragraphs in "Voice" are clumsy with regard to sentence construction and flow of ideas. I suggest rewording them as follows:

With Tracy Ullman Show regulars Dan Castellaneta and Julie Kavner set to play the roles of Homer and Marge, producers held casting for the roles of Bart and Lisa. Nancy Cartwright intended to audition for the role of Lisa, but disliked the character's bland description and read for the role of Bart instead. Yeardley Smith also auditioned for the role of Bart, but casting director Bonita Pietila believed her voice was too high. Smith later recalled: "I always sounded too much like a girl. I read two lines as Bart and they said, 'Thanks for coming!'"

Smith was offered the role of Lisa, but she nearly turned it down because [GIVE REASON HERE]. She accepted, however, and Cartwright was cast in the role of Bart. Smith and the show's writers worked to give Lisa a more defined personality, and she has developed greatly during the series. In her 2000 memoir My Life as a Ten-Year-Old Boy, Cartwright wrote: "[W]ith the brilliant wit of the writers and the wry, in-your-eye, honest-to-a-fault interpretation, Yeardley Smith has made Lisa a bright light of leadership, full of compassion and competence beyond her years. Lisa Simpson is the kind of child we not only want our children to be, but also the kind of child we want all children to be."

Lisa is the only regular character voiced by Smith, who increases the pitch of her voice slightly for the role. In some earlier episodes she provided some of Maggie's squeaks and occasional speaking parts, and has voiced other characters on very rare occasions. Usually they are derivative of Lisa, such as Lisa Bella in "Last Tap Dance in Springfield" (season 11, 2000) and Lisa, Jr. in "Missionary: Impossible" (season 11, 2000).

Just a note, she never actually said why she almost turned the role down.

• When giving seasons and years, the period is often placed before the parenthetical info, but it should be after it.

• The "Personality" section is almost entirely sourced to episodes. We need much more critical commentary here.

• Since we have the quote from Gray in the "Commendations" section, the "Personality" section should also have examples of her feminism.

• She was in commercials for KFC and Burger King? WTF?

Good luck with the article! Please let me know if you have questions. Scartol •  Tok 20:42, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the review! I'm a little busy at the moment (Canada-USA gold medal hockey game), but I'll try to improve the page tomorrow. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 21:21, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

File:Lisasmall2.gif does not animate in the article body, but when I click through, I can see the animation. Is there a reason why the animation does not take place in the body? I've seen GIFs like the one at pi work. Erik ( talk | contribs) 17:13, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

It's not working for me either, which is strange because it worked as recently as a few days ago. -- Scorpion ⁰⁴²² 23:38, 19 April 2010 (UTC)

This seems relevant. There is a lot of discussion above where I linked, I'm trying to wade through it to figure out if there's a way to make it start working again. I suspect the best thing to do for now is wait and let the MediaWiki devs finish working on this. Winston365 ( talk) 00:10, 20 April 2010 (UTC)

I think this issue is responsible for a couple of opposes on the FAC page. It seems like those who oppose think that the image in "Design" is just another image when they cannot see the animation taking place. The animation is what qualifies it. Erik ( talk | contribs) 14:30, 21 April 2010 (UTC)

The article says that she is well received but allot of sites criticise her for being a Misandrist because she identifies herself as a Feminist and a Misanthropist for identifying herself as a Ecologist. I appologise for begging to differ but I think they are more dislikes to her then likes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.169.190.43 ( talk) 20:39, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

I tried to make that objection that she is more hated then liked but it was quickly rejected why is that? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.247.133 ( talk) 13:43, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

Well, do you have any reliable sources to back up your claims? Maitch ( talk) 16:39, 1 February 2012 (UTC)

There are ten sites I found which are http://www.nohomers.net/showthread.php?57773-I-hate-Lisa-fans, http://www.last.fm/group/we+hate+lisa+simpson, http://withmalicetowardnone.blogspot.com.au/2005/11/i-hate-lisa-simpson.html, http://sadpastie.blogspot.com.au/2011/02/i-hate-you-lisa-simpson.html, http://www.bebo.com/Profile.jsp?MemberId=4698339021, http://uk.answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20100724095421AAk6wjz, http://lurkerfaqs.com/posts/view/325984, http://www.the-top-tens.com/lists/worst-cartoon-characters.asp, http://www.facebook.com/pages/I-hate-lisa-simpson/190021424353835?sk=wall&filter=12 and even TV Tropes in which the last actually supports Feminism.

Those are all personal opinions and blogs, not even close to being a wiki-standard reliable source. MrMarmite ( talk) 08:01, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

The opinion of a character is supposed to be personal from the perspective of the average viewer because that is where a majority of the views are stated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.247.133 ( talk) 12:58, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

The sources you are providing cannot be used for sourcing. Please read Wikipedia:Verifiability. -- Maitch ( talk) 15:00, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

If anyone has better sources then I do then I would like them to be used on the page to support my statement of the reputation of her character. I'm sorry but the Anti-feminist have already claimed more then half of the reputation of Feminism because research proves that a majority if not then all forms of Feminism are in reality Hate groups in disguise.

I've been watching some old Simpsons episodes recently, and it has occurred to me that the Lisa that I have grown up with is very different from the Lisa that was in the first couple of seasons. Episodes like Moaning Lisa and Bart vs. Thanksgiving show a dark troubled suppressed girl, and lines like:

Homer: And what does my little girl want? Lisa: An absence of mood swings and some stability in my life. Homer: Uh... How about a pony?

in Simpson and Delilah add to this. I don't think this aspect of her personality is explored in this article. I also think some mention should be made of her personal diary, which serves as a way for her to express her deepest darkest thoughts and feelings - and shows that she is such an outcast even by her family that she has to confide to a book.-- Coin945 ( talk) 02:59, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Doesn't Lisa play the Baritone Saxophone, while Bleeding Gums Murphey plays the Alto? Just a quick glance at each saxophone's wiki page should show anyone that the sax Lisa plays in the opening credits looks and sounds like a Bari Sax. Does she switch sometime after the tenth season? Even if she does, that should be noted. Uriah is Boss ( talk) 23:04, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

I just corrected it. See this image and match it to wiki's baritone sax image: http://www.liketotally80s.com/joy-of-sax.html Or look at any image of Lisa playing her sax and the distinctive curved neck leading to the mouthpiece will give it away as being a bari sax. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Uriah is Boss ( talk • contribs) 02:23, 14 March 2012 (UTC)

should it be mentioned that before she became a vegetarian, she enjoyed fried shrimp, which was implied to be her favorite food? She has become ecstatic in several episodes over being able to enjoy the dish, such as at Mr. Burn's company picnic (if I am not mistaken) and in the Tree House of Horrors episode when abducted by aliens and presented with the dish in question. 208.102.226.145 ( talk) 09:11, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

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What if Lisa turns 9? -- 174.92.79.163 ( talk) 13:58, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Show doesn't work that way. Age just doesn't change while everything else does. JerrySa1 ( talk) 21:26, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

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I added info they reverted it 2601:19E:427E:D670:39D7:C02D:781E:BC53 ( talk) 02:25, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

I removed your change because you did not provide a reliable source. If you would like to add a citation and re-add it, please do so. FAdesdae378 ( talk · contribs) 02:34, 17 August 2022 (UTC)

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