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Can anyone tell me why images that are placed on the right of the page are overwriting the text in my browser? I don't believe I can be the only person experiencing this problem. Deb
"though every monarch since Henry VII is their descendant." Actually that is every monarch since Edward IV of England. He was son to Cecily Neville, grandson to Joan Beaufort, great-grandson to John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford. User:Dimadick
Can anybody help me find out when exactly (year would be enough) Margaret Beaufort was married to Edmund Tudor? Hints appreciated!
-- NicApicella; 27/May/2005
There are conflicting opinions on the marriage date, some people think it was in early May 1455, however Elizabeth Norton thinks it was after her 12th Birthday (31 May 1855), and yet others think it was as late as 1 Nov 1455 Tbirduk ( talk) 16:56, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
The original text for the parentetical dats read, "born May 31, 1443 at the Kingston Lacy estate in Dorset – June 29, 1509." I changed to the present version (only the dates). This is a little more "standard" and much more easily readable. — AnnaKucsma ( Talk to me!) 21:02, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
The Margaret Beaufort article says she founded St John's College. However, the College article says there was no mention of it in her will - although the foundation was suggested by her chaplain. Would it be better to amend this article to match the St John's college article? Thewiltog 11:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
quoth the article:
Margaret sometimes signed herself Margaret R, the form of signature used by English queens regnant to indicate the title "Regina," the feminine form of "Rex." This referenced Margaret's own potential claim to the English throne, which would have had precedence over her son's claim, though she never asserted it. Had she successfully done so, she would have been a queen regnant — ruling in her own right, not through marriage — and entitled her to sign documents with the suffix "Regina."
Can we get a source on whether anyone thinks this is actually some kind of assertion of queenship, rather than what looks like speculation? It's kind of hard to argue that she's asserting her rights as queen because she's signing like English queens regnant do, because at this point there hadn't been any English queens regnant. Even Maude had only use the title "Lady of the English." -- Jfruh ( talk) 01:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it is indeed speculation and there is an alternative theory that Margaret R was for Margaret (of) R(ichmond).
I would also ask if anyone can provide a source confirming the theory published here that she acted as Regent? I have never seen a list of English Regents that include her, Henry was proclaimed King at the Windsor Garter meeting of 23 April 1509 with no mention of a regency and it appears Margaret was in very poor health as she drew up her will before Henry VIII's coronation.
Tbirduk (
talk) 16:57, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Should this be included, as it's not remotely authentic? It's definitely of a late 16C man, from the style of the clothes and beard. There is a more authentic, if damaged, tomb effigy. Silverwhistle ( talk) 22:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Papal dispensation was granted on 18 August 1450 because the spouses were too closely related.
What is the blood relationship between them? Failed to find it out. Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern ( talk) 15:08, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
I moved this page to make the title consistent with the articles on Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Stafford and Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Devon. Richard75 ( talk) 21:24, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Lady Margaret Beaufort from NPG.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on August 22, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-08-22. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! — howcheng { chat} 00:44, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
I think that this section is clumsily written: "She is buried in the Henry VII Lady Chapel of the Abbey, in a black marble tomb topped with a bronze gilded effigy and canopy, between the graves of William and Mary and the tomb of Mary, Queen of Scots." It would be more accurate to say: "She is buried in the Henry VII Lady Chapel of the Abbey, in a black marble tomb topped with a bronze gilded effigy and canopy, and can today be found between the graves of William and Mary and the tomb of Mary, Queen of Scots." Clearly she was not buried between those people since Mary, Queen of Scots was Margaret Beaufort's great-great granddaughter and was buried a considerable time later, and William and Mary even later still!. They may be said to have been buried near to Margaret Beaufort, as she was already in her grave. Moonraker55 ( talk) 22:59, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia should create a page to "Sir Henry Stafford (c.1425-1471). The page should indlude the following history and reference, and should be used in the false hyperlink listed for Henry Stafford in the section "Third Marriage": http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/302/330/
Lord Henry Stafford (c.1425-1471)
Second Son to Henry Stafford, 1st Duke of Buckingham
Henry married the 15 year old Margaret Beaufort (1443-1509) on 3 January 1458 at Maxstoke Castle, Margaret was the daughter of John Beaufort, 1st Duke of Somerset (killed at St Albans in 1455), widow of Edmund Tudor (killed at Mortimer’s Cross in 1460) and mother to the infant Henry Tudor, later Henry VII. Household accounts and personal letters indicate that the marriage was a happy one with the couple rarely apart and unusually for the period they always celebrated their wedding anniversary. They lived initially at Bourne Castle in Lincolnshire.
Henry fought at the Battle of Towton on the Lancastrian side but survived and was later pardoned by Edward IV on 25 June 1461.
Shortly afterwards, Edward IV purchased Henry Tudor’s wardship for £1000.00 and placed him in the Household of William Herbert, Earl of Pembroke, a staunch Yorkist.
In 1466, and to celebrate the marriage of Henry Stafford, 2nd Duke of Buckingham to the Queen’s sister, Edward IV presented Henry and Margaret with Woking Old Hall, a palatial house in Surrey which became their principle residence. His brother John, with whom he remained close, was a regular visitor at Woking Old Hall “to hunt and play cards”. Their staff included fifty servants, many of them “gentle born” including their Receiver-General Reginald Bray (d.1503) who went on to fight for Henry Tudor at Bosworth in 1485.
In May 1467 Henry was summoned to attend the Royal Council at Mortlake Palace and in May 1468 Henry and Margaret were again in London, staying at the Mitre Inn in Cheapside to hear the Kings public announcement of his intention to invade France, an invasion that was subsequently postponed until 1475.
In 1468 he attended Lord Scales at the Grand Tournament against the Bastard of Burgundy along with his young nephew, Henry, Duke of Buckingham.
On 20 December 1468 later Edward IV paid the couple the ultimate compliment of visiting Old Woking Hall to attend a hunt and afterwards dined with them at their hunting lodge at Brookwood. Household Accounts show that they ate in a tent of purple sarsenet serenaded by the royal minstrels. Conger eel, lamprey and 700 oysters were served off a pewter dinner service bought specially for the occasion
Although unwell, Henry is believed to have suffered from the skin disease “St Anthony’s Fire”, erysipelas (believed at the time to be a form of leprosy), he was with Edward IV on 12 March 1470 at the Battle of Losecoat Field where the rebel forces of Sir Robert, Lord Wells (Margaret Beaufort’s stepbrother) were defeated. Papers found on the battle provided clear evidence at to Warwick and Clarence’s involvement in the Lanacastrian uprising and Henry rode with the King throughout April during the pursuit of Warwick and Clarence which culminated in their flight to Calais. Shortly afterwards Henry visited Maxley to advise Margaret’s mother, Lady Wells, the news of her son’s execution.
In September 1470, Warwick and Clarence were once more on English soil. Edward, caught out by the speed of their invasion, was forced to flee into exile. Henry Stafford though initially arrested was released shortly afterwards following petition from his wife. On 27 October, Henry, Margaret, Henry Tudor and his uncle, Jasper attended the redemption of Henry VII at Westminster and dined at the palace. Margaret suddenly found herself part of the Royal Family and henceforth she would dedicate herself to the Lancastrian cause and the enhancement of her son, Henry Tudor.
On 24 March, the Duke of Somerset visited Henry and Margaret, his first cousin, at Woking Old Hall in an attempt to persuade Henry to join the Lancastrian army being mustered to defend against Edward’s inevitable return. Henry was in no mood to commit and subsequently sent retainers to Somerset’s headquarters, with instruction to discuss matters for as long as possible and delay the issue.
However on April 12 he was in London to greet Edward on his triumphant entry into the city and had by then made up his mind to join him, accompanied by the Steward of his Household, John Gilpyn, and other retainers. He was so unprepared for campaign that not only was his harness incomplete, having to send for the chain mail gussets that protected the vulnerable joints; he also had to purchase a horse for Gilypn. Mindful of his narrow escape from Towton he ordered ten of his men to wait for him at Kingston-upon-Thames to ensure, that should things go badly, he was assured of being able to cross Kingston Bridge in a hurry.
Although choosing the winning side, Henry was so badly wounded at Barnet that he never recovered and died in his bed on 14 October 1471. In his will he bequeathed thirty shillings to the Parish Church at Old Woking, a set of velvet horse trappings to his stepson, Henry Tudor, a bay courser to his brother, the Earl of Wiltshire, another horse to his receiver-general, Reginald Bray and £160 for a chantry priest to sing Masses for the repose of his soul. The rest of his estate went to “my beloved Margaret”.
John Gilpyn also survived Barnet and continued serving at Woking Old Hall until his death in 1500. Many other Stafford retainers, including John and Richard Harper and John Kymer, also remained loyal to Margaret. John Kymer and John Harper both were involved in the Exeter rising in support of the 1483 rebellion (see 2nd Duke of Buckingham) and both later went on to fight under Sir Reginald Bray at Bosworth in 1485.
Margaret Beaufort’, whose son was now the only surviving Lancastrian claimant to the throne, sent her son into exile in France and in 1472 she married Thomas, Lord Stanley.
reference:
http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/302/330/
153.31.113.27 (
talk) 15:02, 19 July 2013 (UTC)Dan Kerns
153.31.113.27 (
talk) 15:02, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
The pronunciation of the surname is given as:
I tried to pronounce this as shown and it sounded like the way posh people talked when I was a lad. I notice that the dictionary referred to is nearly as old as I am, and so I thought I would substitute a pronunciation in current RP.
LynwoodF ( talk) 16:17, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
I don't think there can be one correct pronunciation. Byew-fet/byou-fet (as close as I can get) is so rarely used nowadays. With the White Queen TV series being on, there have been a lot of documentaries about the Tudor period on the BBC, and she is universally called Beau/Bow-fert.
A 70 year old American dictionary is probably not the best source for such a thing.
Historically we have no way to prove how she pronounced it (she probably never used it anyway, as she would have taken her surname from her father's and then her own titles, rather than a family name).
I'm not saying its "wrong", but I think its wrong to present it as a singular correct pronunciation. I've added both pronunciations and converted them to the
IPA pronunciation thing that wikipedia likes.
-- Rushton2010 ( talk) 19:49, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Okay, she has a degree in history but her Ph.D is in 18th century literature, which is in no way relevant to the content of her historical novels, so referring to her as "Dr" Philippa Gregory in this article is in no way indicative of specialist knowledge or research on the subject. In her TV documentary series "The Real White Queen and her Rivals", she presents certain facts but also adds her own interpretation of them, eg. referring to Margaret Beaufort as "cunning" is not a fact, it is simply her opinion based on such facts as she knows. Likewise, her suggestion that Beaufort was responsible for the deaths of the Princes in the Tower, whilst a valid theory, is not a fact, nor did she present it as such in the documentary.
Gregory's novels are fiction, and as such are not valid references for this or any other article on history, except in the "Popular Culture" section. They are simply one individual's interpretation of the known facts (which are few) and are deliberately embroidered on for the purposes of making her novels more interesting to the reader. I would suggest that anyone who comes here thinking they know what happened because they have read the novels (which I enjoyed) or watched the TV series (which I also enjoyed) are on the wrong track. Those who have watched the documentary are better-equipped to recognise the difference between fact and fiction but should also recognise that Gregory does not claim to be correct in every detail of her interpretation: she simply says "I believe" that this is what happened. Deb ( talk) 09:11, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
Don't confuse where the information came from. NONE of the information came from or has been referenced to a fictions novel. The information added came from a
BBC documentary; a reputable and reliable source. The
BBC aren't in the habit of pouring out un-researched historical documentaries after all.
You also over-egg the influence of Gregory. The documentary is one of a number that have been on in the recent period to coincide with the White Queen TV series. The documentary in question featured a number of historians and was very clear between what was their "opinion" and historical fact.
Margaret Beaufort is named a suspect in the princes in the tower mystery in many places.
for example. The article did not state she was guilty of the murders; just that she is regarded suspect. She had access to the tower (as many other nobles did; not least when their husband's controlled access.). Access to the tower is a very different thing to access to the princes; hence why the article should state she had access to the tower and not to the boys. Another fact verified in the documentary.
-- Rushton2010 ( talk) 18:29, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
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Do we know Margaret's coat of arms. I assume she would have used the arms of the Duke of Somerset impaled with those of her various husbands. Robin S. Taylor ( talk) 21:34, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
Is there evidence for her being called "My Lady the King's Grandmother" in her final weeks? Robin S. Taylor ( talk) 19:09, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) B dash ( talk) 13:49, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Richmond and Derby →
Lady Margaret Beaufort – It's the common name and very clear primary topic, as proven by
web searches, examining any books on the topic, all the citations in the article, and
page views. Current title is deprecated by
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility), which says using a maiden name with married titles is an 'anachronism' and 'honorific prefixes such as Lord or Lady... should be included in the article title if the person is far better recognised with the title than without'.
Celia Homeford (
talk) 12:29, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
The St John's College painting has now been pretty firmly re-attributed to this guy, previously just a name in court records, which means lopping nearly a century off its date, and makes it "the oldest large-scale portrait of an English woman". It now seems to be painted within a year after her death, and becomes very much the prime version of all the paintings. I've updated the article, but using it in the lead, rather than the poor copy now there, should be considered - it doesn't have to be in the infobox. Johnbod ( talk) 03:51, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
Why did married people take this?
Also, should it not be called `vow of celibacy'? More info needed. 2A00:23C7:E287:1900:CD8:C7E2:4F5B:5457 ( talk) 00:59, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
the Margaret Beaufort who married the Duke of Buckingham, was this Margaret's cousin, and moter of Henry, 2nd Duke of Buckingham, he of Buckinham's rebellion. This Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henryv11, married 3 times, 2nd to Henryvll, dad, and 3rd to Thomas Stanley, betrayor of Richard III at Bosworth. An interesting thought - if either or neither of these women had been born, would we be living in a Plantagenet England now? 82.69.4.43 ( talk) 08:54, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
I'm not a deep English history buff, but this caught my eye:
She [Margaret Beaufort] was the daughter and sole heiress of John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset (1404–1444), a legitimised grandson of John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster (third surviving son of King Edward III), by his mistress Katherine Swynford, whom he married.
Now, her father was John Beaufort alright, but her mother was Margaret Beauchamp. Katherine Swynford (nee de Roelt)(1349-1403) was the wife of Duke John's grandfather, John of Gaunt.
later: OK, I see what the passage was trying to say. All the embellishment was appropos to John of Gaunt, not John Beaufort. I edited it anyway for clarity. SkoreKeep ( talk) 07:45, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
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Can anyone tell me why images that are placed on the right of the page are overwriting the text in my browser? I don't believe I can be the only person experiencing this problem. Deb
"though every monarch since Henry VII is their descendant." Actually that is every monarch since Edward IV of England. He was son to Cecily Neville, grandson to Joan Beaufort, great-grandson to John of Gaunt and Katherine Swynford. User:Dimadick
Can anybody help me find out when exactly (year would be enough) Margaret Beaufort was married to Edmund Tudor? Hints appreciated!
-- NicApicella; 27/May/2005
There are conflicting opinions on the marriage date, some people think it was in early May 1455, however Elizabeth Norton thinks it was after her 12th Birthday (31 May 1855), and yet others think it was as late as 1 Nov 1455 Tbirduk ( talk) 16:56, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
The original text for the parentetical dats read, "born May 31, 1443 at the Kingston Lacy estate in Dorset – June 29, 1509." I changed to the present version (only the dates). This is a little more "standard" and much more easily readable. — AnnaKucsma ( Talk to me!) 21:02, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
The Margaret Beaufort article says she founded St John's College. However, the College article says there was no mention of it in her will - although the foundation was suggested by her chaplain. Would it be better to amend this article to match the St John's college article? Thewiltog 11:20, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
quoth the article:
Margaret sometimes signed herself Margaret R, the form of signature used by English queens regnant to indicate the title "Regina," the feminine form of "Rex." This referenced Margaret's own potential claim to the English throne, which would have had precedence over her son's claim, though she never asserted it. Had she successfully done so, she would have been a queen regnant — ruling in her own right, not through marriage — and entitled her to sign documents with the suffix "Regina."
Can we get a source on whether anyone thinks this is actually some kind of assertion of queenship, rather than what looks like speculation? It's kind of hard to argue that she's asserting her rights as queen because she's signing like English queens regnant do, because at this point there hadn't been any English queens regnant. Even Maude had only use the title "Lady of the English." -- Jfruh ( talk) 01:39, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I think it is indeed speculation and there is an alternative theory that Margaret R was for Margaret (of) R(ichmond).
I would also ask if anyone can provide a source confirming the theory published here that she acted as Regent? I have never seen a list of English Regents that include her, Henry was proclaimed King at the Windsor Garter meeting of 23 April 1509 with no mention of a regency and it appears Margaret was in very poor health as she drew up her will before Henry VIII's coronation.
Tbirduk (
talk) 16:57, 1 May 2013 (UTC)
Should this be included, as it's not remotely authentic? It's definitely of a late 16C man, from the style of the clothes and beard. There is a more authentic, if damaged, tomb effigy. Silverwhistle ( talk) 22:37, 8 May 2010 (UTC)
Papal dispensation was granted on 18 August 1450 because the spouses were too closely related.
What is the blood relationship between them? Failed to find it out. Heinrich ⅩⅦ von Bayern ( talk) 15:08, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
I moved this page to make the title consistent with the articles on Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Stafford and Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Devon. Richard75 ( talk) 21:24, 22 January 2012 (UTC)
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Lady Margaret Beaufort from NPG.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on August 22, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-08-22. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! — howcheng { chat} 00:44, 19 August 2012 (UTC)
I think that this section is clumsily written: "She is buried in the Henry VII Lady Chapel of the Abbey, in a black marble tomb topped with a bronze gilded effigy and canopy, between the graves of William and Mary and the tomb of Mary, Queen of Scots." It would be more accurate to say: "She is buried in the Henry VII Lady Chapel of the Abbey, in a black marble tomb topped with a bronze gilded effigy and canopy, and can today be found between the graves of William and Mary and the tomb of Mary, Queen of Scots." Clearly she was not buried between those people since Mary, Queen of Scots was Margaret Beaufort's great-great granddaughter and was buried a considerable time later, and William and Mary even later still!. They may be said to have been buried near to Margaret Beaufort, as she was already in her grave. Moonraker55 ( talk) 22:59, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
Wikipedia should create a page to "Sir Henry Stafford (c.1425-1471). The page should indlude the following history and reference, and should be used in the false hyperlink listed for Henry Stafford in the section "Third Marriage": http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/302/330/
Lord Henry Stafford (c.1425-1471)
Second Son to Henry Stafford, 1st Duke of Buckingham
Henry married the 15 year old Margaret Beaufort (1443-1509) on 3 January 1458 at Maxstoke Castle, Margaret was the daughter of John Beaufort, 1st Duke of Somerset (killed at St Albans in 1455), widow of Edmund Tudor (killed at Mortimer’s Cross in 1460) and mother to the infant Henry Tudor, later Henry VII. Household accounts and personal letters indicate that the marriage was a happy one with the couple rarely apart and unusually for the period they always celebrated their wedding anniversary. They lived initially at Bourne Castle in Lincolnshire.
Henry fought at the Battle of Towton on the Lancastrian side but survived and was later pardoned by Edward IV on 25 June 1461.
Shortly afterwards, Edward IV purchased Henry Tudor’s wardship for £1000.00 and placed him in the Household of William Herbert, Earl of Pembroke, a staunch Yorkist.
In 1466, and to celebrate the marriage of Henry Stafford, 2nd Duke of Buckingham to the Queen’s sister, Edward IV presented Henry and Margaret with Woking Old Hall, a palatial house in Surrey which became their principle residence. His brother John, with whom he remained close, was a regular visitor at Woking Old Hall “to hunt and play cards”. Their staff included fifty servants, many of them “gentle born” including their Receiver-General Reginald Bray (d.1503) who went on to fight for Henry Tudor at Bosworth in 1485.
In May 1467 Henry was summoned to attend the Royal Council at Mortlake Palace and in May 1468 Henry and Margaret were again in London, staying at the Mitre Inn in Cheapside to hear the Kings public announcement of his intention to invade France, an invasion that was subsequently postponed until 1475.
In 1468 he attended Lord Scales at the Grand Tournament against the Bastard of Burgundy along with his young nephew, Henry, Duke of Buckingham.
On 20 December 1468 later Edward IV paid the couple the ultimate compliment of visiting Old Woking Hall to attend a hunt and afterwards dined with them at their hunting lodge at Brookwood. Household Accounts show that they ate in a tent of purple sarsenet serenaded by the royal minstrels. Conger eel, lamprey and 700 oysters were served off a pewter dinner service bought specially for the occasion
Although unwell, Henry is believed to have suffered from the skin disease “St Anthony’s Fire”, erysipelas (believed at the time to be a form of leprosy), he was with Edward IV on 12 March 1470 at the Battle of Losecoat Field where the rebel forces of Sir Robert, Lord Wells (Margaret Beaufort’s stepbrother) were defeated. Papers found on the battle provided clear evidence at to Warwick and Clarence’s involvement in the Lanacastrian uprising and Henry rode with the King throughout April during the pursuit of Warwick and Clarence which culminated in their flight to Calais. Shortly afterwards Henry visited Maxley to advise Margaret’s mother, Lady Wells, the news of her son’s execution.
In September 1470, Warwick and Clarence were once more on English soil. Edward, caught out by the speed of their invasion, was forced to flee into exile. Henry Stafford though initially arrested was released shortly afterwards following petition from his wife. On 27 October, Henry, Margaret, Henry Tudor and his uncle, Jasper attended the redemption of Henry VII at Westminster and dined at the palace. Margaret suddenly found herself part of the Royal Family and henceforth she would dedicate herself to the Lancastrian cause and the enhancement of her son, Henry Tudor.
On 24 March, the Duke of Somerset visited Henry and Margaret, his first cousin, at Woking Old Hall in an attempt to persuade Henry to join the Lancastrian army being mustered to defend against Edward’s inevitable return. Henry was in no mood to commit and subsequently sent retainers to Somerset’s headquarters, with instruction to discuss matters for as long as possible and delay the issue.
However on April 12 he was in London to greet Edward on his triumphant entry into the city and had by then made up his mind to join him, accompanied by the Steward of his Household, John Gilpyn, and other retainers. He was so unprepared for campaign that not only was his harness incomplete, having to send for the chain mail gussets that protected the vulnerable joints; he also had to purchase a horse for Gilypn. Mindful of his narrow escape from Towton he ordered ten of his men to wait for him at Kingston-upon-Thames to ensure, that should things go badly, he was assured of being able to cross Kingston Bridge in a hurry.
Although choosing the winning side, Henry was so badly wounded at Barnet that he never recovered and died in his bed on 14 October 1471. In his will he bequeathed thirty shillings to the Parish Church at Old Woking, a set of velvet horse trappings to his stepson, Henry Tudor, a bay courser to his brother, the Earl of Wiltshire, another horse to his receiver-general, Reginald Bray and £160 for a chantry priest to sing Masses for the repose of his soul. The rest of his estate went to “my beloved Margaret”.
John Gilpyn also survived Barnet and continued serving at Woking Old Hall until his death in 1500. Many other Stafford retainers, including John and Richard Harper and John Kymer, also remained loyal to Margaret. John Kymer and John Harper both were involved in the Exeter rising in support of the 1483 rebellion (see 2nd Duke of Buckingham) and both later went on to fight under Sir Reginald Bray at Bosworth in 1485.
Margaret Beaufort’, whose son was now the only surviving Lancastrian claimant to the throne, sent her son into exile in France and in 1472 she married Thomas, Lord Stanley.
reference:
http://www.bucks-retinue.org.uk/content/view/302/330/
153.31.113.27 (
talk) 15:02, 19 July 2013 (UTC)Dan Kerns
153.31.113.27 (
talk) 15:02, 19 July 2013 (UTC)
The pronunciation of the surname is given as:
I tried to pronounce this as shown and it sounded like the way posh people talked when I was a lad. I notice that the dictionary referred to is nearly as old as I am, and so I thought I would substitute a pronunciation in current RP.
LynwoodF ( talk) 16:17, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
I don't think there can be one correct pronunciation. Byew-fet/byou-fet (as close as I can get) is so rarely used nowadays. With the White Queen TV series being on, there have been a lot of documentaries about the Tudor period on the BBC, and she is universally called Beau/Bow-fert.
A 70 year old American dictionary is probably not the best source for such a thing.
Historically we have no way to prove how she pronounced it (she probably never used it anyway, as she would have taken her surname from her father's and then her own titles, rather than a family name).
I'm not saying its "wrong", but I think its wrong to present it as a singular correct pronunciation. I've added both pronunciations and converted them to the
IPA pronunciation thing that wikipedia likes.
-- Rushton2010 ( talk) 19:49, 16 August 2013 (UTC)
Okay, she has a degree in history but her Ph.D is in 18th century literature, which is in no way relevant to the content of her historical novels, so referring to her as "Dr" Philippa Gregory in this article is in no way indicative of specialist knowledge or research on the subject. In her TV documentary series "The Real White Queen and her Rivals", she presents certain facts but also adds her own interpretation of them, eg. referring to Margaret Beaufort as "cunning" is not a fact, it is simply her opinion based on such facts as she knows. Likewise, her suggestion that Beaufort was responsible for the deaths of the Princes in the Tower, whilst a valid theory, is not a fact, nor did she present it as such in the documentary.
Gregory's novels are fiction, and as such are not valid references for this or any other article on history, except in the "Popular Culture" section. They are simply one individual's interpretation of the known facts (which are few) and are deliberately embroidered on for the purposes of making her novels more interesting to the reader. I would suggest that anyone who comes here thinking they know what happened because they have read the novels (which I enjoyed) or watched the TV series (which I also enjoyed) are on the wrong track. Those who have watched the documentary are better-equipped to recognise the difference between fact and fiction but should also recognise that Gregory does not claim to be correct in every detail of her interpretation: she simply says "I believe" that this is what happened. Deb ( talk) 09:11, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
Don't confuse where the information came from. NONE of the information came from or has been referenced to a fictions novel. The information added came from a
BBC documentary; a reputable and reliable source. The
BBC aren't in the habit of pouring out un-researched historical documentaries after all.
You also over-egg the influence of Gregory. The documentary is one of a number that have been on in the recent period to coincide with the White Queen TV series. The documentary in question featured a number of historians and was very clear between what was their "opinion" and historical fact.
Margaret Beaufort is named a suspect in the princes in the tower mystery in many places.
for example. The article did not state she was guilty of the murders; just that she is regarded suspect. She had access to the tower (as many other nobles did; not least when their husband's controlled access.). Access to the tower is a very different thing to access to the princes; hence why the article should state she had access to the tower and not to the boys. Another fact verified in the documentary.
-- Rushton2010 ( talk) 18:29, 18 August 2013 (UTC)
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Do we know Margaret's coat of arms. I assume she would have used the arms of the Duke of Somerset impaled with those of her various husbands. Robin S. Taylor ( talk) 21:34, 29 April 2018 (UTC)
Is there evidence for her being called "My Lady the King's Grandmother" in her final weeks? Robin S. Taylor ( talk) 19:09, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: Moved. ( closed by non-admin page mover) B dash ( talk) 13:49, 14 March 2019 (UTC)
Margaret Beaufort, Countess of Richmond and Derby →
Lady Margaret Beaufort – It's the common name and very clear primary topic, as proven by
web searches, examining any books on the topic, all the citations in the article, and
page views. Current title is deprecated by
Wikipedia:Naming conventions (royalty and nobility), which says using a maiden name with married titles is an 'anachronism' and 'honorific prefixes such as Lord or Lady... should be included in the article title if the person is far better recognised with the title than without'.
Celia Homeford (
talk) 12:29, 4 March 2019 (UTC)
The St John's College painting has now been pretty firmly re-attributed to this guy, previously just a name in court records, which means lopping nearly a century off its date, and makes it "the oldest large-scale portrait of an English woman". It now seems to be painted within a year after her death, and becomes very much the prime version of all the paintings. I've updated the article, but using it in the lead, rather than the poor copy now there, should be considered - it doesn't have to be in the infobox. Johnbod ( talk) 03:51, 9 April 2019 (UTC)
Why did married people take this?
Also, should it not be called `vow of celibacy'? More info needed. 2A00:23C7:E287:1900:CD8:C7E2:4F5B:5457 ( talk) 00:59, 10 January 2022 (UTC)
the Margaret Beaufort who married the Duke of Buckingham, was this Margaret's cousin, and moter of Henry, 2nd Duke of Buckingham, he of Buckinham's rebellion. This Margaret Beaufort, mother of Henryv11, married 3 times, 2nd to Henryvll, dad, and 3rd to Thomas Stanley, betrayor of Richard III at Bosworth. An interesting thought - if either or neither of these women had been born, would we be living in a Plantagenet England now? 82.69.4.43 ( talk) 08:54, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
I'm not a deep English history buff, but this caught my eye:
She [Margaret Beaufort] was the daughter and sole heiress of John Beaufort, Duke of Somerset (1404–1444), a legitimised grandson of John of Gaunt, 1st Duke of Lancaster (third surviving son of King Edward III), by his mistress Katherine Swynford, whom he married.
Now, her father was John Beaufort alright, but her mother was Margaret Beauchamp. Katherine Swynford (nee de Roelt)(1349-1403) was the wife of Duke John's grandfather, John of Gaunt.
later: OK, I see what the passage was trying to say. All the embellishment was appropos to John of Gaunt, not John Beaufort. I edited it anyway for clarity. SkoreKeep ( talk) 07:45, 26 September 2023 (UTC)