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I think that "Krivoy Rog" should also be in the header, alongside "Kryvyi Rih". There shows a higher appearance of "Krivoy Rog" in the Ngram Viewer linked here: [1], the graph clearly shows a higher usage of "Krivoy Rog" compared to "Kryvyi Rih". Wikiexplorationandhelping ( talk) 17:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Nevertheless, other names, especially those used significantly often (say, 10% of the time or more) in the available English literature on a place, past or present, should be mentioned in the article, as encyclopedic information. Two or three alternative names can be mentioned in the first line of the article; it is general Wikipedia practice to bold them so they stand out. If there are more names than this, or the lead section is cluttered, a separate paragraph on the names of the place is often a good idea.Mellk ( talk) 18:36, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language or that is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted.With Google News Results of 47,300 and 7,390 in Kryvyi Rih and Krivoy Rog, respectively - I believe that this satisfies the minimum percentage of 10% of sources. Wikiexplorationandhelping ( talk) 19:21, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: @ Slava Ukraini Heroyam Slava 123: This is not quite an alternative name, it's just how it's called in one foreign country! Just so you'd know, Kyiv has got exactly the same thing: Ukraine calls it "Kyiv", but many foreigners used to call it "Kiev" in the Russian manner – perhaps, it's due to Kyiv's bilinguality. The majority of world's airports started writing it as KYIV only this year, I guess, after Ukraine got openly really irritated by this :P AlbertHog ( talk) 18:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC) @ Wikiexplorationandhelping: One damn good oppose bro, this leaves nothing to add. AlbertHog ( talk) 18:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Oops, I've messed your names up in replies a little ( User: Wikiexplorationandhelping and User:Slava Ukraini Heroyam Slava 123), but I hope you've figured it out, sorry for that. AlbertHog ( talk) 18:54, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: 1) MOS:LEADLANG#Foreign language, provided above by User:Slava Ukraini Heroyam Slava 123 – This explains everything, there is even an example of Chernivtsi Oblast, bordering with Romania and Moldova, and their language is obviously spoken there too…You've gotta check it out, mate. 2) There are no words Kryvyi Rih in English literature, it's just a translation, I think. AlbertHog ( talk) 19:28, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: 1) MOS:LEADLANG#Foreign language, provided above by User:Slava Ukraini Heroyam Slava 123 – This explains everything, there is even an example of Chernivtsi Oblast, bordering with Romania and Moldova, and their language is obviously spoken there too…You've gotta check it out, mate. 2) There are no words Kryvyi Rih in English literature, it's just a transliteration, I mean. AlbertHog ( talk) 19:32, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: This is not a name, it's just a transliteration, that's why I think only MOS:LEADLANG#Foreign language explains things. Krivoy Rog might be a pretty widespread mistransliteration for the reason Ru-net is still far too popular, even in the rest of ex-Soviet countries, not speaking of Whole of Ukraine… AlbertHog ( talk) 19:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Wikiexplorationandhelping: Well, then, it's a mistake, considering the rules mentioned above ;) @ Mellk: There are no such words “krivoy, rog" in Ukrainian language, neither in English. So, it's foreign language. I have no formatting issues, it was all made consciously, you know. AlbertHog ( talk) 20:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: There are no such words in English, this is only a transliteration. Moreover, it's called foreign toponym, not English language... AlbertHog ( talk) 20:10, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: So then, can you translate to us this "English word" "kryvyi" into Ukrainian? Please, Begging you! AlbertHog ( talk) 20:21, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: Oh and one more thing: the equivalent to Ukrainian "Kryvyi Rih" in English is "Crooked Horn", which is said in the preambula. AlbertHog ( talk) 20:28, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: You can translate even Kryvyi Rih into Ukrainian, if you want so! I don't mind such self-educating. So, how is it? AlbertHog ( talk) 20:32, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
BTW, the article is 12 years old. Why the new push right now to give the Russian name for a Ukraine city more prominence? North8000 ( talk) 20:38, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
COMMENT Check out the Ukrainian article about George Washington. Джордж Вашингтон. If you think that Kryvyi Rih and Krivoy Rog are English names just because they are written in English letters, then you have to also say that Джордж is an Ukrainian name because it’s written in Ukrainian letters. Also check out the article Ендрю Джексон about Andrew Jackson. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 21:11, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Russian and Ukrainian do not use latin letters. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 23:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Mellk: I'm still waiting for the meaning of these "English wonderwords like "kryvyi, rih" or their translation to Ukrainian. This would surely prove words are English.
Ukrainians know both the Slavic languages, this doesn't mean their toponymy needs translation to Russian everywhere, it's not Canada.
– Russians don't know Ukrainian, that's why they always use Russian-transliterated toponymy for Ukrainian locations; and Ru-net is bigger, that's why some Uks use it too in the web and search instead of Ukrainian – this is where all the search counts come from, your point is miserable. You see, people search for information, and they don't know yet where it's fuller, so sometimes it goes like this. Passers by don't care so much what language it is written in, but when it comes to scientific matters, only the correct names come in use, no nicknames and no Russianisms, I think.
@
Ymblanter: So what? Just because it's always been there doesn't mean it's right, no? Like this:
MOS:LEADLANG#Foreign language. And yes, the
Chernivtsi case is wrong too.
AlbertHog (
talk) 21:56, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Do not make personal attacks anywhere on Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor. Personal attacks harm the Wikipedia community and the collaborative atmosphere needed to create a good encyclopedia.- 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 22:48, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Ymblanter: Being so rude, you haven’t said any yet except saying we're not your good lol. I can't remember you saying anything intellectual at all, pal. You started showing off just after you showed up… AlbertHog ( talk) 22:04, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Ymblanter:What does number of edits change? AlbertHog ( talk) 22:06, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Ymblanter: Actually, I learned this today thanks to User:Slava Ukraini Heroyam Slava 123. It's impossible to know everything by yourself. You're welcome!, and it's never too late to learn. AlbertHog ( talk) 22:13, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
So I guess that Ukrainians and others were somewhat accepting about alternate Russian names for Ukrainian cities. And after the invasion less so. I guess the one thing that I'm sure of is that it should be well explained in the article, including any recent changes in usage/ acceptance during 2022. The previous wording (as pointed out to me) of "also known as" might now be obsolete or have more recently become a stronger and more controversial claim than it was previously. And so I think that that statement or presence in the first sentence should not currently be done. But I think I need to back away from my previous "not in the lead" statement. The name Krivoy Rog has some prominence for the city, at least historically, even if is more recently being rejected. And the lead should be a summary of the article. Perhaps a 1 sentence summary of the Krivoy Rog material (including any recent updates) later in the lead might be a good thing/ good compromise. I don't plan to watch this so please ping me if you think I can be of any help. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 22:43, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Ukrainians never mind someone speaking Russian in casual life, but since Ukraine's independence (1991) we have never accepted using Russian names in the official or public space. Russian was the common language for all USSR, now this just doesn’t work out any more. The decommunization movement in politics as itself started only shortly after the war began, in 2015 to be accurate. This is a very responsible, delicate process, so it is still ongoing slowly even inside Ukraine, not speaking of giving some international acquitances ;) @ Ymblanter: Like speak What(??!) as mothertongue?! Why do you think so? Jizz…you still trolling, right? Yes, there are some Russophones in KR, but depending on the age, origin, ancestry, district or enviroment… but majority(?!) Meh…
AlbertHog ( talk) 00:13, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
Support. Usually we mention the names of places in locally spoken languages. Considering that the majority of the population of the city is Russophone, it should be added. Alaexis ¿question? 07:54, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Alaexis:
And once again
1)It's not Russophone. Well, I mean mostly not. It's bilingual (in every possible way), more or less, (except some particular estates more or less), but Russian never dominates over Ukrainian, that's just nonsense and this fact proves it can't be called Russophone after all. It's bilingual in some ways, this is not the same thing, you know, not everyone gets this statement right. Do you think I'm lying?
2)And once again: this
MOS:LEADLANG#Foreign language leaves no chance to another translations in preambula.
But are you proposing to make an exception? Personally I mind this, if what…Thanks for taking part in this discussion, it's pretty topical.
AlbertHog (
talk) 17:01, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Mellk: It doesn’t have any alternative names, but surely has foreign translations. Its name in Hebrew was for some time in some other language's preambula, it's been already removed too, dunno why.
…Still waiting for the requested translation btw. If it's so messy, you can still solve this by providing a translation, that's what your, without a doubt, not-bludgeoning intelligence is needed for. Proofs needed. Have some progress?
AlbertHog (
talk) 18:59, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
there are two foreign language names in the lead now. No, there’s one name rendered in two different alphabets. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 22:31, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Mellk: You said Kryvyi Rih is foreingn name (English, you said). I asked you to translate this "English name" into Ukrainian, you failed, as I see. That's because it already IS Ukrainian, but not English.
Kryvyi Rih is Ukrainian (native), transliterated into English. Krivoy Rog is in Russian (foreign), transliterated into English.
Krywyj Rih? Ukrainian words written in German letters.
And finally, Kryvyi means Crooked, Rih means Horn. "Crooked Horn" would be English, but not just some English transliteration.
You don't even know Ukrainian, do you? That maybe makes you so curious about this.
AlbertHog (
talk) 20:26, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Mellk: The city is situated in Ukraine, this wiki is English…What should Russian name be doing in this wiki? Because it's foreign.
This city
Vienna, in Ukraine we call it Viden’. Why don't they add this name in the English wiki? -Because it's Austrian, but not Uk!
AlbertHog (
talk) 17:40, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Russian and Ukrainian do not use latin letters, so these are not Russian and Ukrainian namesfor some reason stopped being valid here. Also, I’m sure you are the expert because of 13,185 edits. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 21:20, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Russian and Ukrainian do not use latin letters, so these are not Russian and Ukrainian nameswould apply also here. Maybe not. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 13:28, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: In Ukraine and rest of Europe, the fuehrer of Russian Federation Putin is often mentioned as Huylo (sorry, but Ngram proves this). Is this his alt name? Can we put it on his Wiki page? Because, you see, this is obviously an English word, and surely not Ukrainian strong word! It’s just his alt name! But the Ngram. ;))) AlbertHog ( talk) 21:50, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Also, the russian name was only added to the article on November 10, 2022. There’s a recent push to include it, not a recent push to remove it. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 09:42, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Mellk: Are you trying to allow this translationbecause a city is too popular amongst Russians? Is this it?
AlbertHog (
talk) 16:01, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Personally I don't think English WP needs to have a translation added, which only Russians would understand = / So it would be… AlbertHog ( talk) 16:03, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
LikeitsWorth ( talk) 20:41, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
I just don't get it, why is English Wiki doubling Ukr names with Russian ones? = /
Your main point was that the =top= had been like this for a long time…well let’s say, not too convincing as for me and the rest. Made me register to say it out.
Other one admin actually missdiffers translation and transliteration :P .
No wonder you guys made them freak out a little.
LikeitsWorth (
talk) 00:09, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
This page lists Kryvyi Rih as the 7th largest city in Ukraine, when according to several sources, including Wikipedia itself, it is actually the 8th largest. The seventh largest is Lviv, but this cannot be edited, as Kryvyi Rih’s page is locked. 2601:40A:8100:8320:A997:3FA4:B6FD:C28E ( talk) 19:59, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Kryvyi_Rih#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine - for this one there has been 2 new attacks, on 5 December, ArcelorMittal was struck, 1 41 yo man died, 3 injured. On 6 December another strike, 1 person injured. Sources: https://24tv.ua/ru/raketnyj-udar-po-krivomu-rogu-6-dekabrja-2022-goda-ranen-i-razrushen-24-kanal_n2212830, https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3627843-arcelormittal-kryvyi-rih-struck-with-russian-missiles.html 140.228.45.139 ( talk) 20:09, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
Hey guys, I've just noticed that there are 3 more raions in the list (almost in top) that actually have their own WP pages, but still they don't have the hyperlinks to their pages. Unfortunately, I can't edit this page, so please, do this for me. Here they are:
Tsentralno-Miskyi District, Kryvyi Rih
Pokrovskyi District
Ternivskyi District.
P.S.:There is also one small mistake in the captcha for the front gallery: "Inhulets landscape" seems right to me — no apostrophe needed, btw that styled apostrophe there doesn't match the WP:MoS (so it seems). And also, "Eagle's Nest" this is how it should be instead of "Eagle’s Nest" (the apostrophe thing). Crappy Trumpet ( talk) 15:41, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
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PREAMBULA
Lotsprofit9 ( talk) 10:14, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
So, change in the preambula:
| parts = List of 7
to:
| parts = List of 7
districts
References (in Ukrainian): [10] [11] [12] Lotsprofit9 ( talk) 13:47, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
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Please delete the "also transliterated as Krivoy Rog (Russian: Кривой Рог)," part, it's redundant, it is english wikipedia, so I can understand and accept that the name of the city translated i to English, but what does Russian translation do here? Why not translation to Korean or Italian? Does Russia have some special say in how the names of Ukrainian cities should sound like, they can decide what is the right pronunciation of the names of Ukrainian cities? I don't think so, Ukraine is independent state and nobody needs to ask Russia about how Ukrainian cities should be pronounced. Please redact this. TaPuRaTe ( talk) 09:42, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
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Hello to moderators. Regarding the captions for top pictures…
1)There is an existing page for Old Town, it's called Historical centre of Kryvyi Rih. Can you add the link to the caption?
2)In "Main train station" the word "Main" should be capitalized, because it actually is station own(!) name, not common. Also may you name it Kryvyi Rih-Main rail station, which I'd like more.
3)Should Boat station be capitalized, and there's no article…Personally I would prefer "the boat station on Saksahan.
4)This one is too messed up, I say it should be like: a landscape of the Inhulets from Eagle's Nest. P.S.:give your attention to the correct apostrophe, as far as I know, ' is the preferred one.
That is it, thx for your being initiative ;) WellThatIsSoGood ( talk) 05:09, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
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Hi guys. Sorry, I have a bit more of remarks to captchas @top…
1)the boat station on Saksahan -> the boat sation on the Saksahan — because there must always be "the" article before the river names.
2) Kryvyi Rih railway station -> Kryvyi Rih-Main railway station — that's because the name "Kryvyi Rih" railway station" is already taken by another station, which is located in Metallurgical District (btw not far from ArcelorMittal Kryvyi Rih) and is nicknamed "Chervona" (lit. "Red" (by the neighborhood of its location). There is also one more good reason for rename: there is not single 1, but about 13 active railway stations in the city limits, and at least 5 of them are passengers…
Thanks for your help, guys! Cheers. WellThatIsSoGood ( talk) 23:03, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
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Hey folks, I've noticed a few more mistakes, in the Kryvyi Rih#Education tray.
1) In 2014 Donetsk Tugan-Baranovsky National University of Economics and Trade was evacuated to Kryvyi Rih after a start of the Russo-Ukrainian War. Its future is uncertain.
2) According to Frances Cairncross in April 2010, "There are too many small universities, the majority of which are ineffectively governed and mired in corruption. They are not able to withstand existing global challenges."[150] According to Anders Åslund in October 2012, the quality of doctoral education is bad, particularly in management training, economics, law and languages.
Thx for your time. Bye bye.
WellThatIsSoGood (
talk) 13:36, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
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It is hard for English speakers to grapple with the Ukrainian spelling and pronunciation of "Kryvyi Rih", and the IPA isn't any easier, so I think adding the audio pronunciation from File:Uk-Кривий Ріг.ogg would be appropriate. This audio file is already used in some other language versions of the article, e.g. sv:Kryvyj Rih. I would also add the Russian audio for "Krivoy Rog" for comparison, but alas, no such pronunciation file has been uploaded to Commons.
Change the start of the lede from:
'''Kryvyi Rih''' ({{IPAc-en|'|k|r|I|v|i:|_|'|r|i:}}; {{lang-uk|Кривий Ріг|link=no}}, {{IPA-uk|krɪˌwɪj ˈr⁽ʲ⁾iɦ|IPA}}), also transliterated as '''Krivoy Rog''' ({{lang-ru|Кривой Рог|link=no}}),
to
'''Kryvyi Rih''' ({{IPAc-en|'|k|r|I|v|i:|_|'|r|i:}}; {{lang-uk|Кривий Ріг|link=no}}, {{IPA-uk|krɪˌwɪj ˈr⁽ʲ⁾iɦ|IPA|audio=Uk-Кривий Ріг.ogg}}), also transliterated as '''Krivoy Rog''' ({{lang-ru|Кривой Рог|link=no}}),
This will display as:
Thank you. 70.181.1.68 ( talk) 16:12, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
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Hey all! It looks like the only city district missing page on En WP already has one… Sounds stupid, I know. I'm talking about Metalurhiynyi District (yes, the original link on this page yet has been almost the same, but, there is some mismatch transliteration). So, the @top districts list has to be refreshed, and also Kryvyi Rih#Government has exactly the same districts list with links, which also should be renewed. Ty, my best regards. WellThatIsSoGood ( talk) 04:13, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
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Hi all! This tray Kryvyi Rih#Twin towns – sister cities is outdated. There've been 3 new sister cities added since the last update:
Also, I'd like to say that this wording Friendly cities frankly means nothing, and, ultimately this means the same as sister cities (depending on RSs). I've checked for any similarities on other cities articles (and also used other WP languages), and I've found nothing similar to this strange wording, so I mean, maybe we should simplify it. Best regards! Bye.
WellThatIsSoGood ( talk) 11:59, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
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The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to Eastern Europe or the Balkans, which has been
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Kryvyi Rih was nominated as a Geography and places good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (June 9, 2015). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Kryvyi Rih article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
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Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
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level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
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Kryvyi Rih received a peer review by Wikipedia editors, which is now archived. It may contain ideas you can use to improve this article. |
{{
rfc|hist}}
I think that "Krivoy Rog" should also be in the header, alongside "Kryvyi Rih". There shows a higher appearance of "Krivoy Rog" in the Ngram Viewer linked here: [1], the graph clearly shows a higher usage of "Krivoy Rog" compared to "Kryvyi Rih". Wikiexplorationandhelping ( talk) 17:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Nevertheless, other names, especially those used significantly often (say, 10% of the time or more) in the available English literature on a place, past or present, should be mentioned in the article, as encyclopedic information. Two or three alternative names can be mentioned in the first line of the article; it is general Wikipedia practice to bold them so they stand out. If there are more names than this, or the lead section is cluttered, a separate paragraph on the names of the place is often a good idea.Mellk ( talk) 18:36, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Relevant foreign language names (one used by at least 10% of sources in the English language or that is used by a group of people which used to inhabit this geographical place) are permitted.With Google News Results of 47,300 and 7,390 in Kryvyi Rih and Krivoy Rog, respectively - I believe that this satisfies the minimum percentage of 10% of sources. Wikiexplorationandhelping ( talk) 19:21, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: @ Slava Ukraini Heroyam Slava 123: This is not quite an alternative name, it's just how it's called in one foreign country! Just so you'd know, Kyiv has got exactly the same thing: Ukraine calls it "Kyiv", but many foreigners used to call it "Kiev" in the Russian manner – perhaps, it's due to Kyiv's bilinguality. The majority of world's airports started writing it as KYIV only this year, I guess, after Ukraine got openly really irritated by this :P AlbertHog ( talk) 18:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC) @ Wikiexplorationandhelping: One damn good oppose bro, this leaves nothing to add. AlbertHog ( talk) 18:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Oops, I've messed your names up in replies a little ( User: Wikiexplorationandhelping and User:Slava Ukraini Heroyam Slava 123), but I hope you've figured it out, sorry for that. AlbertHog ( talk) 18:54, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: 1) MOS:LEADLANG#Foreign language, provided above by User:Slava Ukraini Heroyam Slava 123 – This explains everything, there is even an example of Chernivtsi Oblast, bordering with Romania and Moldova, and their language is obviously spoken there too…You've gotta check it out, mate. 2) There are no words Kryvyi Rih in English literature, it's just a translation, I think. AlbertHog ( talk) 19:28, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: 1) MOS:LEADLANG#Foreign language, provided above by User:Slava Ukraini Heroyam Slava 123 – This explains everything, there is even an example of Chernivtsi Oblast, bordering with Romania and Moldova, and their language is obviously spoken there too…You've gotta check it out, mate. 2) There are no words Kryvyi Rih in English literature, it's just a transliteration, I mean. AlbertHog ( talk) 19:32, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: This is not a name, it's just a transliteration, that's why I think only MOS:LEADLANG#Foreign language explains things. Krivoy Rog might be a pretty widespread mistransliteration for the reason Ru-net is still far too popular, even in the rest of ex-Soviet countries, not speaking of Whole of Ukraine… AlbertHog ( talk) 19:50, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Wikiexplorationandhelping: Well, then, it's a mistake, considering the rules mentioned above ;) @ Mellk: There are no such words “krivoy, rog" in Ukrainian language, neither in English. So, it's foreign language. I have no formatting issues, it was all made consciously, you know. AlbertHog ( talk) 20:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: There are no such words in English, this is only a transliteration. Moreover, it's called foreign toponym, not English language... AlbertHog ( talk) 20:10, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: So then, can you translate to us this "English word" "kryvyi" into Ukrainian? Please, Begging you! AlbertHog ( talk) 20:21, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: Oh and one more thing: the equivalent to Ukrainian "Kryvyi Rih" in English is "Crooked Horn", which is said in the preambula. AlbertHog ( talk) 20:28, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: You can translate even Kryvyi Rih into Ukrainian, if you want so! I don't mind such self-educating. So, how is it? AlbertHog ( talk) 20:32, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
BTW, the article is 12 years old. Why the new push right now to give the Russian name for a Ukraine city more prominence? North8000 ( talk) 20:38, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
COMMENT Check out the Ukrainian article about George Washington. Джордж Вашингтон. If you think that Kryvyi Rih and Krivoy Rog are English names just because they are written in English letters, then you have to also say that Джордж is an Ukrainian name because it’s written in Ukrainian letters. Also check out the article Ендрю Джексон about Andrew Jackson. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 21:11, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Russian and Ukrainian do not use latin letters. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 23:03, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Mellk: I'm still waiting for the meaning of these "English wonderwords like "kryvyi, rih" or their translation to Ukrainian. This would surely prove words are English.
Ukrainians know both the Slavic languages, this doesn't mean their toponymy needs translation to Russian everywhere, it's not Canada.
– Russians don't know Ukrainian, that's why they always use Russian-transliterated toponymy for Ukrainian locations; and Ru-net is bigger, that's why some Uks use it too in the web and search instead of Ukrainian – this is where all the search counts come from, your point is miserable. You see, people search for information, and they don't know yet where it's fuller, so sometimes it goes like this. Passers by don't care so much what language it is written in, but when it comes to scientific matters, only the correct names come in use, no nicknames and no Russianisms, I think.
@
Ymblanter: So what? Just because it's always been there doesn't mean it's right, no? Like this:
MOS:LEADLANG#Foreign language. And yes, the
Chernivtsi case is wrong too.
AlbertHog (
talk) 21:56, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Do not make personal attacks anywhere on Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor. Personal attacks harm the Wikipedia community and the collaborative atmosphere needed to create a good encyclopedia.- 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 22:48, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Ymblanter: Being so rude, you haven’t said any yet except saying we're not your good lol. I can't remember you saying anything intellectual at all, pal. You started showing off just after you showed up… AlbertHog ( talk) 22:04, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Ymblanter:What does number of edits change? AlbertHog ( talk) 22:06, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Ymblanter: Actually, I learned this today thanks to User:Slava Ukraini Heroyam Slava 123. It's impossible to know everything by yourself. You're welcome!, and it's never too late to learn. AlbertHog ( talk) 22:13, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
So I guess that Ukrainians and others were somewhat accepting about alternate Russian names for Ukrainian cities. And after the invasion less so. I guess the one thing that I'm sure of is that it should be well explained in the article, including any recent changes in usage/ acceptance during 2022. The previous wording (as pointed out to me) of "also known as" might now be obsolete or have more recently become a stronger and more controversial claim than it was previously. And so I think that that statement or presence in the first sentence should not currently be done. But I think I need to back away from my previous "not in the lead" statement. The name Krivoy Rog has some prominence for the city, at least historically, even if is more recently being rejected. And the lead should be a summary of the article. Perhaps a 1 sentence summary of the Krivoy Rog material (including any recent updates) later in the lead might be a good thing/ good compromise. I don't plan to watch this so please ping me if you think I can be of any help. Sincerely, North8000 ( talk) 22:43, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
Ukrainians never mind someone speaking Russian in casual life, but since Ukraine's independence (1991) we have never accepted using Russian names in the official or public space. Russian was the common language for all USSR, now this just doesn’t work out any more. The decommunization movement in politics as itself started only shortly after the war began, in 2015 to be accurate. This is a very responsible, delicate process, so it is still ongoing slowly even inside Ukraine, not speaking of giving some international acquitances ;) @ Ymblanter: Like speak What(??!) as mothertongue?! Why do you think so? Jizz…you still trolling, right? Yes, there are some Russophones in KR, but depending on the age, origin, ancestry, district or enviroment… but majority(?!) Meh…
AlbertHog ( talk) 00:13, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
Support. Usually we mention the names of places in locally spoken languages. Considering that the majority of the population of the city is Russophone, it should be added. Alaexis ¿question? 07:54, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Alaexis:
And once again
1)It's not Russophone. Well, I mean mostly not. It's bilingual (in every possible way), more or less, (except some particular estates more or less), but Russian never dominates over Ukrainian, that's just nonsense and this fact proves it can't be called Russophone after all. It's bilingual in some ways, this is not the same thing, you know, not everyone gets this statement right. Do you think I'm lying?
2)And once again: this
MOS:LEADLANG#Foreign language leaves no chance to another translations in preambula.
But are you proposing to make an exception? Personally I mind this, if what…Thanks for taking part in this discussion, it's pretty topical.
AlbertHog (
talk) 17:01, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Mellk: It doesn’t have any alternative names, but surely has foreign translations. Its name in Hebrew was for some time in some other language's preambula, it's been already removed too, dunno why.
…Still waiting for the requested translation btw. If it's so messy, you can still solve this by providing a translation, that's what your, without a doubt, not-bludgeoning intelligence is needed for. Proofs needed. Have some progress?
AlbertHog (
talk) 18:59, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
there are two foreign language names in the lead now. No, there’s one name rendered in two different alphabets. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 22:31, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Mellk: You said Kryvyi Rih is foreingn name (English, you said). I asked you to translate this "English name" into Ukrainian, you failed, as I see. That's because it already IS Ukrainian, but not English.
Kryvyi Rih is Ukrainian (native), transliterated into English. Krivoy Rog is in Russian (foreign), transliterated into English.
Krywyj Rih? Ukrainian words written in German letters.
And finally, Kryvyi means Crooked, Rih means Horn. "Crooked Horn" would be English, but not just some English transliteration.
You don't even know Ukrainian, do you? That maybe makes you so curious about this.
AlbertHog (
talk) 20:26, 16 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Mellk: The city is situated in Ukraine, this wiki is English…What should Russian name be doing in this wiki? Because it's foreign.
This city
Vienna, in Ukraine we call it Viden’. Why don't they add this name in the English wiki? -Because it's Austrian, but not Uk!
AlbertHog (
talk) 17:40, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Russian and Ukrainian do not use latin letters, so these are not Russian and Ukrainian namesfor some reason stopped being valid here. Also, I’m sure you are the expert because of 13,185 edits. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 21:20, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Russian and Ukrainian do not use latin letters, so these are not Russian and Ukrainian nameswould apply also here. Maybe not. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 13:28, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
@ Mellk: In Ukraine and rest of Europe, the fuehrer of Russian Federation Putin is often mentioned as Huylo (sorry, but Ngram proves this). Is this his alt name? Can we put it on his Wiki page? Because, you see, this is obviously an English word, and surely not Ukrainian strong word! It’s just his alt name! But the Ngram. ;))) AlbertHog ( talk) 21:50, 18 November 2022 (UTC)
Also, the russian name was only added to the article on November 10, 2022. There’s a recent push to include it, not a recent push to remove it. - 🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦Україні🇺🇦Героям🇺🇦Слава🇺🇦( talk)🇺🇦 09:42, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
@
Mellk: Are you trying to allow this translationbecause a city is too popular amongst Russians? Is this it?
AlbertHog (
talk) 16:01, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
Personally I don't think English WP needs to have a translation added, which only Russians would understand = / So it would be… AlbertHog ( talk) 16:03, 19 November 2022 (UTC)
LikeitsWorth ( talk) 20:41, 2 December 2022 (UTC)
I just don't get it, why is English Wiki doubling Ukr names with Russian ones? = /
Your main point was that the =top= had been like this for a long time…well let’s say, not too convincing as for me and the rest. Made me register to say it out.
Other one admin actually missdiffers translation and transliteration :P .
No wonder you guys made them freak out a little.
LikeitsWorth (
talk) 00:09, 3 December 2022 (UTC)
This page lists Kryvyi Rih as the 7th largest city in Ukraine, when according to several sources, including Wikipedia itself, it is actually the 8th largest. The seventh largest is Lviv, but this cannot be edited, as Kryvyi Rih’s page is locked. 2601:40A:8100:8320:A997:3FA4:B6FD:C28E ( talk) 19:59, 1 December 2022 (UTC)
/info/en/?search=Kryvyi_Rih#2022_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine - for this one there has been 2 new attacks, on 5 December, ArcelorMittal was struck, 1 41 yo man died, 3 injured. On 6 December another strike, 1 person injured. Sources: https://24tv.ua/ru/raketnyj-udar-po-krivomu-rogu-6-dekabrja-2022-goda-ranen-i-razrushen-24-kanal_n2212830, https://www.ukrinform.net/rubric-ato/3627843-arcelormittal-kryvyi-rih-struck-with-russian-missiles.html 140.228.45.139 ( talk) 20:09, 6 December 2022 (UTC)
Hey guys, I've just noticed that there are 3 more raions in the list (almost in top) that actually have their own WP pages, but still they don't have the hyperlinks to their pages. Unfortunately, I can't edit this page, so please, do this for me. Here they are:
Tsentralno-Miskyi District, Kryvyi Rih
Pokrovskyi District
Ternivskyi District.
P.S.:There is also one small mistake in the captcha for the front gallery: "Inhulets landscape" seems right to me — no apostrophe needed, btw that styled apostrophe there doesn't match the WP:MoS (so it seems). And also, "Eagle's Nest" this is how it should be instead of "Eagle’s Nest" (the apostrophe thing). Crappy Trumpet ( talk) 15:41, 13 May 2023 (UTC)
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PREAMBULA
Lotsprofit9 ( talk) 10:14, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
So, change in the preambula:
| parts = List of 7
to:
| parts = List of 7
districts
References (in Ukrainian): [10] [11] [12] Lotsprofit9 ( talk) 13:47, 20 May 2023 (UTC)
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Please delete the "also transliterated as Krivoy Rog (Russian: Кривой Рог)," part, it's redundant, it is english wikipedia, so I can understand and accept that the name of the city translated i to English, but what does Russian translation do here? Why not translation to Korean or Italian? Does Russia have some special say in how the names of Ukrainian cities should sound like, they can decide what is the right pronunciation of the names of Ukrainian cities? I don't think so, Ukraine is independent state and nobody needs to ask Russia about how Ukrainian cities should be pronounced. Please redact this. TaPuRaTe ( talk) 09:42, 4 September 2023 (UTC)
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Hello to moderators. Regarding the captions for top pictures…
1)There is an existing page for Old Town, it's called Historical centre of Kryvyi Rih. Can you add the link to the caption?
2)In "Main train station" the word "Main" should be capitalized, because it actually is station own(!) name, not common. Also may you name it Kryvyi Rih-Main rail station, which I'd like more.
3)Should Boat station be capitalized, and there's no article…Personally I would prefer "the boat station on Saksahan.
4)This one is too messed up, I say it should be like: a landscape of the Inhulets from Eagle's Nest. P.S.:give your attention to the correct apostrophe, as far as I know, ' is the preferred one.
That is it, thx for your being initiative ;) WellThatIsSoGood ( talk) 05:09, 25 December 2023 (UTC)
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Hi guys. Sorry, I have a bit more of remarks to captchas @top…
1)the boat station on Saksahan -> the boat sation on the Saksahan — because there must always be "the" article before the river names.
2) Kryvyi Rih railway station -> Kryvyi Rih-Main railway station — that's because the name "Kryvyi Rih" railway station" is already taken by another station, which is located in Metallurgical District (btw not far from ArcelorMittal Kryvyi Rih) and is nicknamed "Chervona" (lit. "Red" (by the neighborhood of its location). There is also one more good reason for rename: there is not single 1, but about 13 active railway stations in the city limits, and at least 5 of them are passengers…
Thanks for your help, guys! Cheers. WellThatIsSoGood ( talk) 23:03, 9 January 2024 (UTC)
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Hey folks, I've noticed a few more mistakes, in the Kryvyi Rih#Education tray.
1) In 2014 Donetsk Tugan-Baranovsky National University of Economics and Trade was evacuated to Kryvyi Rih after a start of the Russo-Ukrainian War. Its future is uncertain.
2) According to Frances Cairncross in April 2010, "There are too many small universities, the majority of which are ineffectively governed and mired in corruption. They are not able to withstand existing global challenges."[150] According to Anders Åslund in October 2012, the quality of doctoral education is bad, particularly in management training, economics, law and languages.
Thx for your time. Bye bye.
WellThatIsSoGood (
talk) 13:36, 11 January 2024 (UTC)
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It is hard for English speakers to grapple with the Ukrainian spelling and pronunciation of "Kryvyi Rih", and the IPA isn't any easier, so I think adding the audio pronunciation from File:Uk-Кривий Ріг.ogg would be appropriate. This audio file is already used in some other language versions of the article, e.g. sv:Kryvyj Rih. I would also add the Russian audio for "Krivoy Rog" for comparison, but alas, no such pronunciation file has been uploaded to Commons.
Change the start of the lede from:
'''Kryvyi Rih''' ({{IPAc-en|'|k|r|I|v|i:|_|'|r|i:}}; {{lang-uk|Кривий Ріг|link=no}}, {{IPA-uk|krɪˌwɪj ˈr⁽ʲ⁾iɦ|IPA}}), also transliterated as '''Krivoy Rog''' ({{lang-ru|Кривой Рог|link=no}}),
to
'''Kryvyi Rih''' ({{IPAc-en|'|k|r|I|v|i:|_|'|r|i:}}; {{lang-uk|Кривий Ріг|link=no}}, {{IPA-uk|krɪˌwɪj ˈr⁽ʲ⁾iɦ|IPA|audio=Uk-Кривий Ріг.ogg}}), also transliterated as '''Krivoy Rog''' ({{lang-ru|Кривой Рог|link=no}}),
This will display as:
Thank you. 70.181.1.68 ( talk) 16:12, 22 January 2024 (UTC)
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Hey all! It looks like the only city district missing page on En WP already has one… Sounds stupid, I know. I'm talking about Metalurhiynyi District (yes, the original link on this page yet has been almost the same, but, there is some mismatch transliteration). So, the @top districts list has to be refreshed, and also Kryvyi Rih#Government has exactly the same districts list with links, which also should be renewed. Ty, my best regards. WellThatIsSoGood ( talk) 04:13, 25 January 2024 (UTC)
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Hi all! This tray Kryvyi Rih#Twin towns – sister cities is outdated. There've been 3 new sister cities added since the last update:
Also, I'd like to say that this wording Friendly cities frankly means nothing, and, ultimately this means the same as sister cities (depending on RSs). I've checked for any similarities on other cities articles (and also used other WP languages), and I've found nothing similar to this strange wording, so I mean, maybe we should simplify it. Best regards! Bye.
WellThatIsSoGood ( talk) 11:59, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
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