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Someone keeps on changing the text from conservative to far right. This is reaching and sectarian. Far right isn't an established term and shouldn't be used as it is marginalizing. Omjeremy ( talk) 12:34, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
I have added several scholar works (eight, as of now), and some press articles, where Kast is described as a far-right politician (in one of them, to be honest, Kast is called a "derecha radical"/radical right politician). -- Bedivere ( talk) 01:48, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Bedivere four separate english reliable sources refer to him as right-wing while five separate english reliable sources refer to him as far-right, all of which are cited in the article. Simply stating far-right alone is a complete BLP violation by unduly ignoring alternative descriptions. Bill Williams 22:52, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
@ Bill Williams: Bedivere is correct. Spanish sources can be applied to English Wikipedia (see WP:NOENG). Though English is preferred in most cases, topics that are primarily covered in other languages are not less reliable than English sources. Also, Bedivere is correct with their use of "extrema derecha", which you can easily see in the Spanish language sister article of far-right politics.-- WMrapids ( talk) 02:45, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
I urge Bill to stop softening the wording of the article. Kast is a far-right politician. Period. -- Bedivere ( talk) 20:21, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Due to recent disputes, I'm opening this RfC so that we can settle on what should and shouldn't be included in the introduction/lead section.
1) Should Kast be described as either "right-wing" or "far-right" in the introduction, or should we leave out his political position?
2) Should Kast be described as a supporter of free market, socially conservative and right-wing populist policies in the introduction?
Discussion can take place in an another subsection below. Vacant0 ( talk) 23:26, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
References
Given some of the comments here, and to assist with contributions below, some sourcing.
Author | Title | Journal/Publisher | Quote |
---|---|---|---|
Ariel Alejandro Goldstein | The New Far-Right in Brazil and the Construction of a Right-Wing Order | Latin American Perspectives, April 2019 | "In this sense, he has something in common with José Antonio Kast, the leader of the Chilean far-right, who speaks in favor of the Pinochet dictatorship's legacy." |
The International Institute for Strategic Studies | Political unrest in Chile | Strategic Comments, May 2020 | "the Partido Republicano, which is likely to serve as a vehicle for far-right populist José Antonio Kast, a nostalgist for the Pinochet era" |
Boas, T.C. | Expanding the Public Square. Evangelicals and Electoral Politics in Latin America | Cambridge University Press, February 2021 | "threw their support behind former UDI senator and far-right independent candidate José Antonio Kast." (p.391) |
Gisela Pereyra Doval | Global Resurgence of the Right: Conceptual and Regional Perspectives | Routledge, July 2021 | "Kast does not hide his relationship with international far-right ideologist Steve Bannon, or the fact that he has ties with the new Spanish far-right of Vox." (p.110) |
Title | Date | Publisher | Link |
---|---|---|---|
Far-right candidate through to Chile presidential run-off | 22 November 2021 | BBC News | [4] |
José Antonio Kast, a far-right figure, could lead Chile | 23 Novermber 2021 | The Economist | [5] |
Far-right candidate José Antonio Kast threatens to politicize the country’s constitutional rewrite | 17 December 2021 | Foreign Policy | [6] |
Chilean presidential candidate Kast says he is not 'far right' | 13 November 2021 | Reuters | "Jose Antonio Kast said on Friday that he does not feel like a "far-right" politician, as he has been called in the press" [7] |
Far-right candidate Jose Antonio Kast takes lead in Chile's presidential elections | 22 November 2021 | EuroNews | [8] |
Chile: voter apathy could hand the presidency to far-right inheritor of the Pinochet legacy | 26 November 2021 | The Conversation | [9] |
Chile’s Jews feel under ‘siege’ from anti-Israel sentiment, so they’re backing a far-right presidential candidate | 23 November 2021 | Jewish Telegraph Agency | [10] |
'Very worrying': is a far-right radical about to take over in Chile? | 16 December 2021 | The Guardian | [11] |
Voting for President, Chile Faces Stark Choice, With Constitution at Stake | 19 December 2021 | New York Times | "José Antonio Kast, 55, a far-right former lawmaker who has promised to crack down on crime and civil unrest, " [12] |
Same-sex marriage backed by Chile’s MPs | 25 November 2021 | The Sunday Times | "José Antonio Kast, 55, a far-right candidate who has praised aspects of dictator Augusto Pinochet's legacy" [13] |
Regards, -- Goldsztajn ( talk) 13:22, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Oppose inclusion those two terms are vague and unnecessary when his precise positions, e.g. opposition to abortion, same sex marriage, and illegal immigration, in addition to his support for free market economics and law and order, are already stated clearly in the lead. "Far-right" hyperlinks to an article describing numerous positions of Nazis that do not accurately describe Kast, so adding that to the lead provides no benefit to readers and only misleads them. "Far-right" is already stated in the body, and that is where it belongs, if readers want to know a more detailed description of his policy proposals. Bill Williams 23:36, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Support inclusion of course he must be described as "a populist who supports law and order and free market policies, while opposing abortion, same-sex marriage, and illegal immigration" since that describes the vast majority that has been discussed about him and the most major issues he focuses on. Without this, nothing is stated at all on what he actually believes in the lead. Bill Williams 23:37, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Omjeremy BastianMAT Bedivere WMrapids have comments above this discussion pertaining to this issue, and therefore it makes sense to ping them on it. Also for comparison, [14] the lead of the Spanish article, which is more detailed in some sections than this English article, makes no mention of "right-wing" or "far-right" in the lead, but it also does not mention any of his policies. I think the best approach would be to mention his policies but not what "wing" he belongs to, as the policies are specific while the "wing" is vague and redundant. Experts who refer to Kast as far-right and the reasons for doing so is mentioned in the body, and putting all of that in the lead would take up too much space. Bill Williams 23:45, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
...homophobic and xenophobic overtones of its European counterparts
An IP has just deleted the reference to Kast's father's alleged involvment with the Nazi party, this is a topic that seems to come back up however. There are two issues that I see at play in this regard. 1.) Is it relevant? Ie is it relevant to the wiki article about Jose Antonio Kast whether his father was affiliated with the Nazi party? I don't really think it is. I understand that the idea is JAK is far right, father has been alleged to be part of the nazi party one influences the other, but this would be WP:OR. 2.) There are WP:BLP considerations. Michael Kast is recently deceased which means he still falls under BLP protection. His involvement is controversial. It's true that the allegations exist and most point to the fact that a man named Michael Kast is documented as having joined the Nazi Party in 1942, but JAK's father denies involvement, and JAK has also maintained that his father never joined the party, based on this it seems like saying "Michael Kast was a member of X party" is really risky without qualifications, and if it's not absolutely necessary for the article I believe that it is better to be left out. 2806:107E:D:76CF:9511:7F58:51A6:8653 ( talk) 17:39, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Someone keeps on changing the text from conservative to far right. This is reaching and sectarian. Far right isn't an established term and shouldn't be used as it is marginalizing. Omjeremy ( talk) 12:34, 6 January 2019 (UTC)
I have added several scholar works (eight, as of now), and some press articles, where Kast is described as a far-right politician (in one of them, to be honest, Kast is called a "derecha radical"/radical right politician). -- Bedivere ( talk) 01:48, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
Bedivere four separate english reliable sources refer to him as right-wing while five separate english reliable sources refer to him as far-right, all of which are cited in the article. Simply stating far-right alone is a complete BLP violation by unduly ignoring alternative descriptions. Bill Williams 22:52, 5 December 2021 (UTC)
@ Bill Williams: Bedivere is correct. Spanish sources can be applied to English Wikipedia (see WP:NOENG). Though English is preferred in most cases, topics that are primarily covered in other languages are not less reliable than English sources. Also, Bedivere is correct with their use of "extrema derecha", which you can easily see in the Spanish language sister article of far-right politics.-- WMrapids ( talk) 02:45, 7 December 2021 (UTC)
I urge Bill to stop softening the wording of the article. Kast is a far-right politician. Period. -- Bedivere ( talk) 20:21, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Due to recent disputes, I'm opening this RfC so that we can settle on what should and shouldn't be included in the introduction/lead section.
1) Should Kast be described as either "right-wing" or "far-right" in the introduction, or should we leave out his political position?
2) Should Kast be described as a supporter of free market, socially conservative and right-wing populist policies in the introduction?
Discussion can take place in an another subsection below. Vacant0 ( talk) 23:26, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
References
Given some of the comments here, and to assist with contributions below, some sourcing.
Author | Title | Journal/Publisher | Quote |
---|---|---|---|
Ariel Alejandro Goldstein | The New Far-Right in Brazil and the Construction of a Right-Wing Order | Latin American Perspectives, April 2019 | "In this sense, he has something in common with José Antonio Kast, the leader of the Chilean far-right, who speaks in favor of the Pinochet dictatorship's legacy." |
The International Institute for Strategic Studies | Political unrest in Chile | Strategic Comments, May 2020 | "the Partido Republicano, which is likely to serve as a vehicle for far-right populist José Antonio Kast, a nostalgist for the Pinochet era" |
Boas, T.C. | Expanding the Public Square. Evangelicals and Electoral Politics in Latin America | Cambridge University Press, February 2021 | "threw their support behind former UDI senator and far-right independent candidate José Antonio Kast." (p.391) |
Gisela Pereyra Doval | Global Resurgence of the Right: Conceptual and Regional Perspectives | Routledge, July 2021 | "Kast does not hide his relationship with international far-right ideologist Steve Bannon, or the fact that he has ties with the new Spanish far-right of Vox." (p.110) |
Title | Date | Publisher | Link |
---|---|---|---|
Far-right candidate through to Chile presidential run-off | 22 November 2021 | BBC News | [4] |
José Antonio Kast, a far-right figure, could lead Chile | 23 Novermber 2021 | The Economist | [5] |
Far-right candidate José Antonio Kast threatens to politicize the country’s constitutional rewrite | 17 December 2021 | Foreign Policy | [6] |
Chilean presidential candidate Kast says he is not 'far right' | 13 November 2021 | Reuters | "Jose Antonio Kast said on Friday that he does not feel like a "far-right" politician, as he has been called in the press" [7] |
Far-right candidate Jose Antonio Kast takes lead in Chile's presidential elections | 22 November 2021 | EuroNews | [8] |
Chile: voter apathy could hand the presidency to far-right inheritor of the Pinochet legacy | 26 November 2021 | The Conversation | [9] |
Chile’s Jews feel under ‘siege’ from anti-Israel sentiment, so they’re backing a far-right presidential candidate | 23 November 2021 | Jewish Telegraph Agency | [10] |
'Very worrying': is a far-right radical about to take over in Chile? | 16 December 2021 | The Guardian | [11] |
Voting for President, Chile Faces Stark Choice, With Constitution at Stake | 19 December 2021 | New York Times | "José Antonio Kast, 55, a far-right former lawmaker who has promised to crack down on crime and civil unrest, " [12] |
Same-sex marriage backed by Chile’s MPs | 25 November 2021 | The Sunday Times | "José Antonio Kast, 55, a far-right candidate who has praised aspects of dictator Augusto Pinochet's legacy" [13] |
Regards, -- Goldsztajn ( talk) 13:22, 19 December 2021 (UTC)
Oppose inclusion those two terms are vague and unnecessary when his precise positions, e.g. opposition to abortion, same sex marriage, and illegal immigration, in addition to his support for free market economics and law and order, are already stated clearly in the lead. "Far-right" hyperlinks to an article describing numerous positions of Nazis that do not accurately describe Kast, so adding that to the lead provides no benefit to readers and only misleads them. "Far-right" is already stated in the body, and that is where it belongs, if readers want to know a more detailed description of his policy proposals. Bill Williams 23:36, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Support inclusion of course he must be described as "a populist who supports law and order and free market policies, while opposing abortion, same-sex marriage, and illegal immigration" since that describes the vast majority that has been discussed about him and the most major issues he focuses on. Without this, nothing is stated at all on what he actually believes in the lead. Bill Williams 23:37, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
Omjeremy BastianMAT Bedivere WMrapids have comments above this discussion pertaining to this issue, and therefore it makes sense to ping them on it. Also for comparison, [14] the lead of the Spanish article, which is more detailed in some sections than this English article, makes no mention of "right-wing" or "far-right" in the lead, but it also does not mention any of his policies. I think the best approach would be to mention his policies but not what "wing" he belongs to, as the policies are specific while the "wing" is vague and redundant. Experts who refer to Kast as far-right and the reasons for doing so is mentioned in the body, and putting all of that in the lead would take up too much space. Bill Williams 23:45, 14 December 2021 (UTC)
...homophobic and xenophobic overtones of its European counterparts
An IP has just deleted the reference to Kast's father's alleged involvment with the Nazi party, this is a topic that seems to come back up however. There are two issues that I see at play in this regard. 1.) Is it relevant? Ie is it relevant to the wiki article about Jose Antonio Kast whether his father was affiliated with the Nazi party? I don't really think it is. I understand that the idea is JAK is far right, father has been alleged to be part of the nazi party one influences the other, but this would be WP:OR. 2.) There are WP:BLP considerations. Michael Kast is recently deceased which means he still falls under BLP protection. His involvement is controversial. It's true that the allegations exist and most point to the fact that a man named Michael Kast is documented as having joined the Nazi Party in 1942, but JAK's father denies involvement, and JAK has also maintained that his father never joined the party, based on this it seems like saying "Michael Kast was a member of X party" is really risky without qualifications, and if it's not absolutely necessary for the article I believe that it is better to be left out. 2806:107E:D:76CF:9511:7F58:51A6:8653 ( talk) 17:39, 19 December 2021 (UTC)