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There have been some recent changes that are at odds with the sources, which I have reverted. For example, the source cited doesn't say that Gibbs' past fringe/conspiracy tweets were "controversial" - rather, the source describes them as "inflammatory and conspiratorial." We reflect what the reliable sources say, and we don't do original research. Neutrality talk 15:08, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
I thought I would comment as I have not been involved in the delete/revert cycle, other editors who have been involved in the back and forth would find these comments useful.
There is no reason to remove "far right" under WP:BLP. While we have to use the highest standards of sourcing for a bio of a living person, multiple perennial sources describing Gibbs as "far right" satisfy this.
These frustrations go to a broader (not just wikipedia issue) of how "political compass" descriptions are not very useful ways to think about politics, because of how relative they are to a specific political environment in place and time, and how disconnected from a global sense of politics.
I'm sympathetic to the overall issue, but the nature of Wikipedia is building a collaborative encyclopedia based on reliable sources, and giving different perspectives that are supported by reliable sources their due weight.
So if you want to add balance here, find a reliable source that argues calling Gibbs "far right" is inappropriate and add it. But "far right" will get to stay.
JArthur1984 ( talk) 14:53, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
This article talk page is not the place to cast aspersions on other editors or deal with content on other pages. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 09:12, 4 August 2022 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
TheEfficientMan ( talk) 19:05, 3 August 2022 (UTC) |
UTC)
@
MisterWat3rm3l0n: while I understand why you made the last edit there, Twitter generally shouldn't be used for claims like this per
WP:ABOUTSELF, points 1 and to an extent 5. Also re including denials of claims,
Wikipedia:Mandy Rice-Davies applies - "X is Y" does not need the qualifier "X denies being Y" because, well, he would, wouldn't he?
ser! (
chat to me -
see my edits) 09:38, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
The Wikipedia link for the term “far right” explains that it typically refers to fascists and neo-Nazis. It’s use as a slightly ambiguous slur by publications like the New York Times doesn’t make it an accurate, viewpoint neutral term appropriate for a neutral article on Wikipedia.
I’m sure we could find many articles in right leaning publications calling Nancy Pelosi “crazy,” but that wouldn’t justify treating it as a factual description. Of course, a lawyerly argument can justify the term according to Wikipedia rules, but if you can’t see the common sense flaw there, your bias is showing.
At a minimum, this article should be edited to say something like “called far-right by the New York Times.” Or, how about: called “far-right” by the “left leaning New York Times.” Or “. . . by the far-left New York Times.”
For example, according to allsides.com’s page on the New York Times, “A plurality of respondents who self-reported a personal bias of Right rated The New York Times as far Left.”
You could say “called far right by critics.” Even putting “far right” in scare quotes would be a vast improvement. It indicates that the term is used in partisan way or from a partisan source.
It’s hardly a defense if no one has written an article disputing the “far right” smear of this particular politician. This kind of hyperbolic language is so ubiquitous, such an article would interest nobody.
Surely Wikipedia must have some mechanism to prevent common, politically exaggerated, language in the press, on both sides, from turning into “facts” in Wikipedia’s articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.171.67 ( talk) 16:07, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
For the record, the page read: “John Gibbs is a American far-right political commentator, politician.[1][2][3][4][5] and conspiracy theorist.[6]“
I edited it to slightly reduce the political bias, as follows: “John Gibbs is an American political commentator and politician. The New York Times and other mainstream press label him as "far right" [1][2][3][4][5] and a conspiracy theorist.[6]”
It was reverted within a few minutes, including the original grammatical Errors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.171.67 ( talk) 17:34, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove labeling of a politician from one-sided media bias.
This post cites biased media sources like CNN to call this politician a conspiracy theorist and the New York Times to call this politician a far-right politician.
CNN bias: https://www.allsides.com/news-source/cnn-media-bias NYT bias: https://www.allsides.com/news-source/new-york-times
Since this politician is involved in an active political election, misrepresenting his political stance contributes to election misinformation, which violates Wikipedia's policy.
Unbiasedpol ( talk) 05:14, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 11:06, 4 August 2022 (UTC)This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please delete the title "far-right". It has contentions to Nazis and the KKK. This candidate is black and not racist. Bordertown45 ( talk) 19:27, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. This is well sourced.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 19:41, 4 August 2022 (UTC)The far right comment needs to be removed. If it stays we need to classify every politicians as far right or far left. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JFerrell007 ( talk • contribs) 05:03, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
someone should add his birthdate because i can't find anything on his birthdate MrMemer223 ( talk) 19:51, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/votejohngibbs/status/1556657433044557824
do you think we should change the first sentence of the article? MrMemer223 ( talk) 09:55, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
The page needs to verify edited to update for historical opinions. 2600:100F:B107:6B98:B47B:BC2C:EA76:C566 ( talk) 01:26, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
This article makes no mention about Gibbs's ethnicity. In order to be categorized, per WP:CATV and WP:EGRS, we need mentions in the article that Gibbs is Black, and they need to be cited to a reliable secondary source. Elizium23 ( talk) 23:00, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Given that the county commissioners "fired" his predecessor and "appointed" Gibbs to the position, it sounds like 'County Administrator' isn't a political office, it's just a government job (like a city manager or school district superintendent), and should therefore not be included in the infobox as a political position. Derpytoucan ( talk) 23:07, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
24.236.158.2 ( talk) 15:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
John Gibbs (government official) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been
designated as a contentious topic. Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. |
There have been some recent changes that are at odds with the sources, which I have reverted. For example, the source cited doesn't say that Gibbs' past fringe/conspiracy tweets were "controversial" - rather, the source describes them as "inflammatory and conspiratorial." We reflect what the reliable sources say, and we don't do original research. Neutrality talk 15:08, 24 November 2021 (UTC)
I thought I would comment as I have not been involved in the delete/revert cycle, other editors who have been involved in the back and forth would find these comments useful.
There is no reason to remove "far right" under WP:BLP. While we have to use the highest standards of sourcing for a bio of a living person, multiple perennial sources describing Gibbs as "far right" satisfy this.
These frustrations go to a broader (not just wikipedia issue) of how "political compass" descriptions are not very useful ways to think about politics, because of how relative they are to a specific political environment in place and time, and how disconnected from a global sense of politics.
I'm sympathetic to the overall issue, but the nature of Wikipedia is building a collaborative encyclopedia based on reliable sources, and giving different perspectives that are supported by reliable sources their due weight.
So if you want to add balance here, find a reliable source that argues calling Gibbs "far right" is inappropriate and add it. But "far right" will get to stay.
JArthur1984 ( talk) 14:53, 29 July 2022 (UTC)
This article talk page is not the place to cast aspersions on other editors or deal with content on other pages. ser! ( chat to me - see my edits) 09:12, 4 August 2022 (UTC) |
---|
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
TheEfficientMan ( talk) 19:05, 3 August 2022 (UTC) |
UTC)
@
MisterWat3rm3l0n: while I understand why you made the last edit there, Twitter generally shouldn't be used for claims like this per
WP:ABOUTSELF, points 1 and to an extent 5. Also re including denials of claims,
Wikipedia:Mandy Rice-Davies applies - "X is Y" does not need the qualifier "X denies being Y" because, well, he would, wouldn't he?
ser! (
chat to me -
see my edits) 09:38, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
The Wikipedia link for the term “far right” explains that it typically refers to fascists and neo-Nazis. It’s use as a slightly ambiguous slur by publications like the New York Times doesn’t make it an accurate, viewpoint neutral term appropriate for a neutral article on Wikipedia.
I’m sure we could find many articles in right leaning publications calling Nancy Pelosi “crazy,” but that wouldn’t justify treating it as a factual description. Of course, a lawyerly argument can justify the term according to Wikipedia rules, but if you can’t see the common sense flaw there, your bias is showing.
At a minimum, this article should be edited to say something like “called far-right by the New York Times.” Or, how about: called “far-right” by the “left leaning New York Times.” Or “. . . by the far-left New York Times.”
For example, according to allsides.com’s page on the New York Times, “A plurality of respondents who self-reported a personal bias of Right rated The New York Times as far Left.”
You could say “called far right by critics.” Even putting “far right” in scare quotes would be a vast improvement. It indicates that the term is used in partisan way or from a partisan source.
It’s hardly a defense if no one has written an article disputing the “far right” smear of this particular politician. This kind of hyperbolic language is so ubiquitous, such an article would interest nobody.
Surely Wikipedia must have some mechanism to prevent common, politically exaggerated, language in the press, on both sides, from turning into “facts” in Wikipedia’s articles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.171.67 ( talk) 16:07, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
For the record, the page read: “John Gibbs is a American far-right political commentator, politician.[1][2][3][4][5] and conspiracy theorist.[6]“
I edited it to slightly reduce the political bias, as follows: “John Gibbs is an American political commentator and politician. The New York Times and other mainstream press label him as "far right" [1][2][3][4][5] and a conspiracy theorist.[6]”
It was reverted within a few minutes, including the original grammatical Errors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.241.171.67 ( talk) 17:34, 1 August 2022 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Remove labeling of a politician from one-sided media bias.
This post cites biased media sources like CNN to call this politician a conspiracy theorist and the New York Times to call this politician a far-right politician.
CNN bias: https://www.allsides.com/news-source/cnn-media-bias NYT bias: https://www.allsides.com/news-source/new-york-times
Since this politician is involved in an active political election, misrepresenting his political stance contributes to election misinformation, which violates Wikipedia's policy.
Unbiasedpol ( talk) 05:14, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 11:06, 4 August 2022 (UTC)This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Please delete the title "far-right". It has contentions to Nazis and the KKK. This candidate is black and not racist. Bordertown45 ( talk) 19:27, 4 August 2022 (UTC)
{{
edit semi-protected}}
template. This is well sourced.
ScottishFinnishRadish (
talk) 19:41, 4 August 2022 (UTC)The far right comment needs to be removed. If it stays we need to classify every politicians as far right or far left. — Preceding unsigned comment added by JFerrell007 ( talk • contribs) 05:03, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
someone should add his birthdate because i can't find anything on his birthdate MrMemer223 ( talk) 19:51, 7 August 2022 (UTC)
https://twitter.com/votejohngibbs/status/1556657433044557824
do you think we should change the first sentence of the article? MrMemer223 ( talk) 09:55, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
The page needs to verify edited to update for historical opinions. 2600:100F:B107:6B98:B47B:BC2C:EA76:C566 ( talk) 01:26, 22 September 2022 (UTC)
This article makes no mention about Gibbs's ethnicity. In order to be categorized, per WP:CATV and WP:EGRS, we need mentions in the article that Gibbs is Black, and they need to be cited to a reliable secondary source. Elizium23 ( talk) 23:00, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Given that the county commissioners "fired" his predecessor and "appointed" Gibbs to the position, it sounds like 'County Administrator' isn't a political office, it's just a government job (like a city manager or school district superintendent), and should therefore not be included in the infobox as a political position. Derpytoucan ( talk) 23:07, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
24.236.158.2 ( talk) 15:17, 2 March 2024 (UTC)