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A new section named staged rescue should be added. This should be the first section becasue the Jessica Lynch is famous because she was used by the Pentagon for their own gain. It seems there are two points of view to this story: - US point of view. - non-US point of view.
In the US, the mass media is subject to manipulation and censorship, therefore US citizesn who access this will be inclined towards the ir story which exposes private Lynch as a hero. The non-US media emphasizes this story as pure propaganda.
We must make sure we can constrain the US attitudes so this stays in the neutral point of view
I have changed the introduction. Feel free to correct/change.
i removed the section labled "differing accounts" and added the sentiment to the section above it. i beleive this portion of the article was beyond editorial and into the realm of deceiptful. apparant syllogisms where used to support a conspiracy theory and it is shameful to have this connected to the name of a soldier. the idea that the mission was staged is false. i know this first hand being that i was in the hospital. perhaps a bigger media hype was made than should have been, but to make the leap from media hype to scandal without factual basis is uncalled for. if you wish to express opinon about the war do it elsewhere. there are many places on the web where you can accuse the government of scandal. when scandal is present i agree with the need. in this case though the accusation is unfounded. although there was "verification" added to this section the source is more than questionable and harldy expert. i do beleive it pertinent to mention the alternate theories and the link section povides several avenues for intersted readers to explore these theories. i beleive assosiating conspiracy theory with this poor girls name is adding insult to injury litteraly. the theory is adaquately described in the new edit without sensationalism
also there where 8 bodies discovered at the hospital i added this to the portion describing the rescue in addition to providing credible verification in the links section Lukebruhns (former army ranger who took part in the operation)11:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Wow, this is one of the more POV articles I have read in Wikipedia. It is notionally about Jessica Lynch, but maybe 50% of the text concerns her. The rest is either 'bad war, bad Americans' or character assasination of some guy called Mohammed. One example of the POV - how is it relevant to Lynch that someone asserts that the US Miltary did not offer to compensate an Iraqi hospital for damage caused during her rescue? Editors seem to have dewlt almost lovingly over every slahed sand bed, broken door or offended Iraqi, while dismissing in one sentence the notion that the troops concerned considered that they were undertaking a Prisoner snatch in a war zone.
The war and the US armed forces must be incredibly unpopular if this passes as unbiased in the US. Or is that that editors are attempting to use this article to counter a perceived Government bias? I'm not an American and I live half a world away, so I don't know the answer, but I suspect my remoteness is the reason why I see a lack of balance here that other US-based editors do not.
I can't be bold on this one I'm afraid, because I have no expert knowledge, but I can recognise bias when I read it. For the record, I don't like the war or my own country's involvement in it either - but that's no excuse for polemic. RichardH 13:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
I find the above comment amusing. Jessica Lynch was used as a propaganda tool by the Bush administration. The only reason we ever heard her name is because Bush wanted to promote the idea of a West Virginia girl hero to sell the war. What would Jefferson think?
Wanna know another irony? Saddam Hussein was a friend of the United States, and actually visited Detroit. He donated money to the local churches (which Middle East oriented of course), and received the key to the city of Detroit.
Yup, better believe the irony, but Lynch is from a town called Palestine.
This has nothing to do with the article. ThePartyVan 22:00, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
What does "Pfc" stand for? I assume it means "Private first class". This should be explained, preferably by someone who knows for certain (i.e. not me). -- Stephen Gilbert
[1] is an interesting news item that may prove valuable to the evolution of this article. Kingturtle 04:43 Apr 4, 2003 (UTC)
Bravo. this article is very well done. Kingturtle 02:21 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)
Last I heard 8 of the 9 bodies brought to the U.S.A. were identified as Americans. Was one of them not from her unit? Rmhermen 03:05 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)
"Despite early reports, she was said not to have suffered gunshot or stab wounds" is a more accurate account than rmhermen's last edit. See this news source: [3] Kingturtle 03:10 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)
Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, the ubiquitous news reports narrating the story of Mohammed the lawyer and his wife the nurse cannot be characterized as "unconfirmed" or "apocryphal." Dozens of well-respected journalists have met this man and interviewed him. -- NetEsq 20:02 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)
There should definitely be more references to the sources of information in this article. Times of war are times of lies and propaganda, after all. Matthias
This article contains nine external links. That is excessive, especially since they point to news items that say the same thing this article says. Are they meant to be references rather than external links? If they are meant to be references, then they should be in reference format, not external link format. External links are meant more to take users to official sites, sites of experts on an issue, sites that offer different points of view on a contraversial topic. What exist in this article, IMHO, are references. References have a different syntax and format to follow. Kingturtle 06:07 Apr 19, 2003 (UTC)
May be a small thing but was this really the first rescue of a POW since WW2? If that were true there would have to be no rescues during Vietnam or Korea, which sounds unlikely. Any references? DJ Clayworth 21:05, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)
There WAS an attempt to rescue POWs in Viet Nam, but the intel was old and the POWs had been moved several weeks prior to the raid.
What you MAY be thinking of are the numerous rescues of pilots shot down during both wars (particularly Viet Nam), such as Iceal Hambelton (Bat 21)...but those were not the same, as those aircrew were never under the command and control of opposing forces....the definition of a POW. Lynch WAS under the C&C of the Iraqis, meaning she was a POW (in fact, until US forces raided the hospital, her status was unknown, as her body wasn't in the pile the Iraqis filmed, nor was the shows with the others of her company), and thus, her rescue was the first rescue of a POW from behind enemy lines since WWII.
We are not in the business of deciding on or reporting on whether the actions were "justified". DanKeshet
When you go into an unknown situation in a war zone, you MUST presume the worst...you don't just walk up, knock on the door, and politely ask for your POW to be returned, particularly ina country where local forces were using civlian buildings as military staging posts (which makes them legitimate targets, by the way)
For sure! Think of the agencies with floorspace in wtc7...
"Free" from Iraq is evident from the article; the term for a discharged soldier is "private citizen" but since that's also evident from the article I removed the phrase. - Hephaestos 16:51, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Here's an interesting item:
Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32824
"I am not a hero" she says...but she'll take the $1 million book deal. Kingturtle 16:29, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Let's clarify this...#1 she split the book fee with Bragg, then there are taxes on the remainder, AND starting her pwn charitible fund with the remainder. Couple that with the unknown factor of how much medical care she will need for the rest of her life -- some of which may not be covered by her vet's status -- and taking the book deal was a good call.
I am in the military, she has lifetime full health care as a veteran, starting her own charity involves no money of her own, and she read the book, and then approved of its content. Which means she agreed to all the lies that were printed in it. She is the epitome of the shitbag soldier. We in the army have no respect for her, her weapon did not jam. She simply froze. She ignored all of the training she had recieved, and froze. This is a proven, documented fact that only people who hace security clearance have access to the filed document. It was purposely witheld from the media that she froze, and she was the one who said the weapon jammed. Since it fit with what the suits in charge were going for, they let it rest.
I'm wondering why there is link to a page about Tim Collins (soldier) which seems completely unrelated to Jessica Lynch except they were both soliders in Iraq.-- enceladus 23:13, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Someone using the IP 71.244.108.146 wrote:
I challenge them to produce documentation that the rescuers encountered any resistance. -- Geo Swan 20:07, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
I believe the military said numerous times that while there was no resistance at the hospotal itself, there WAS resistance in the immediate area.
I've heard on Alex Jones that Jessica Lynch did some topless spreads which I Googled saying there were photos that were pulled. Anybody have any insight?
Speculum
There apparently were candid topless photos taken of Jessica Lynch during a party with other soldiers while she was in basic training or advanced individual training. I remember a news story indicating that these were purchased by Larry Flynt to prevent publication.
-- Ehrentitle 12:29, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Those photos could not have been taken during basic or AIT, if you knew anyhting about the military, both basic and AIT soldiers are watched over stricter than prison inmates. They dont have any time for something like that, and if they did, they males are kept separated from the females in any and all situations like that.
Shouldn't this section reference "alleged" photographs, since no one but Flynt has claimed to see them, and there is some dispute about whether the story was made up for Flynt's own publicity. 12.206.43.178 01:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed the voltairenet article because, while well written, it seemed that the useful content could simply be incorporated into this wikipedia article. That is, it did not meet the fairly strict criteria for external links. Nevertheless, GeoSwan seems to have more experience on this category of wikipedia article so if you think this is a valuable link, I withdraw my objection. -- Yamla 20:41, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following from the article: "Though not publicaly, a lot of soldiers hold resentment towards Lynch for what some call stupidy and cowardice. The jam on her rifle was a simple round stuck in the chamber which could have been fixed by pulling back the charging handle and then didnt fix it and refused to fight out of fear. This is stated by herself in a personal times interview. In some circles of the amry there have she is seens as given a hero's status just becuase shes a woman." As it seems to be unsourced and contains a lot of weasel words ("a lot of", "what some call", "In some circles", "is seen as"). Ziggurat 22:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Not to mention that others in her unit had the exact same problem....and one of her of superiors (Sgt. Dowdy, who died in the Humvee she was in) tried to clear the jam without success. It was a common problem in theater, and not just for the 507th.
The article clearly states at the beginning that Jessica Lynch's middle name is Dawn, but then goes on to say that she names her daughter Dakota Ann after friend Lori Ann Piestewa, "and all three individuals share the middle name of Ann." Both statements conflict. -- Delong71487 05:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
there is very little info about ther life outside the war. 61.2.67.26 14:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I thought this news story merited a new article, since the investigation extends to the Tillman affair as well. Im not sure what to call it, though:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TILLMAN_LYNCH?SITE=KYB66&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
-- popefauvexxiii 16:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Based not on her recollection, a statement by an examining doctor, or a claim by a Government agency but an article by a reporter based in New York who appears to have left his job after claiming other people's work as his own. Does this merit inclusion? -- Herne nz 03:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm not having any luck finding evidence that the Pentagon ever hyped Lynch as a "Rambo". The first official report on that subject appears to have come out in July, 2003, and said that she did not fight back. By contrast, there is plenty of evidence that they hyped the rescue but not her conduct in the fight in which she was captured. RFabian 15:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
The following is written under the "Lynch's Criticism" section of this article, and I just noticed it:
In fact, the Pentagon never made such claims about Lynch. The first official report of Lynch's actions that day released by the Pentagon said that she did not appear to have fought back against her captors. The stories of her supposed heroics that day were spread by the news media and by Democratic Congressmen from her own state of West Virginia. [9]
The obvious intent of this remark appears to be to deflect criticism regarding the controversy around this story off of the Pentagon and on to unnamed "Democratic congressmen." It seems slightly POV against Democrats (or the news media, a frequent tip-off to a conservative bias), but that may be acceptable if the assertion is in fact true. The news media, notably the NBC movie, did perpetuate a false story. But who were the congressmen?
The problem is that the article sourced (note 9) as supporting evidence makes no reference of particular West Virginian congressmen, let alone that they were Democrats. I didn't make an edit to the page assuming the assertion might be true. Perhaps I missed the source reference? Perhaps the article could be made more specific by naming the actual congressmen?
72.11.81.88 07:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
It seems that Jessica Lynch, Miss New York 2003 erroneously redirects to this article. How does one fix that? -- Chops79 15:12, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
While I, personally, would use the term 'Propaganda' as an appropriate description of the Pentagon's handling of PFC Lynch's story, I feel it is not appropriate for use here, because...
Therefore, I propose the use of less harsh phrases, such as "P.R." and "Spin"
They were intentional lies. Things stated by the Pentagon were flat out lies, not giving a vague subjective view but a flat out contradiction to the events witnessed first hand by Lynch and the staff of the hospital (not to mention those pesky inteligence reports that show they already knew). Nor is propaganda "derogatory", many government have officially called departments within their "PR" propaganda.
It's not a "durp P.R. spin", it was flat out lies known to those stating them in order to gain support during wartime. It's propaganda and it's going back in. 203.59.21.45 ( talk) 04:22, 11 March 2011 (UTC) Sutter Cane
The intro makes no sense. " Lynch, along with major media outlets, fault the U.S. government for creating the story as part of the Pentagon's propaganda effort" What story? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.94.87.209 ( talk) 19:48, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
This is a really calm article...where are the gop memory-holers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.154.162.190 ( talk) 22:51, 6 January 2009 (UTC) How does a comment like this help this article at all? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.237.119.62 ( talk) 18:55, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Former US Army Specialist Scott Bruno was the person who intercepted the 13 minute video depicting many of the dead in this case, many of which were shot point blank execution style. The footage was prime intelligence material as the video showed the external and internal buildings surrounding the area in which the battle took place as well as many other clues that would lead to forming a snatch and grab team to go in and retrieve the dead and survivors. Fox News at the time actually aggressively pursued this video from Bruno who nearly gave it up, this only after his Pentagon contact stated that after reviewing the video that it was closing time back east and he would DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE IN THE MORNING! Outraged, Bruno has yet to tell the entire story, which if things did not go the way they did under such time delays, may have very well allowed for more lives to be saved. We'll never know. To gain insite into Specialist Bruno's accounts and life in the military you are welcome to find his website at http://www.scottbruno.com and http://411.scottbruno.com -- 05:35, 12 August 2007 Caliwebman
The article says "Boot camp" (a term not used in the Army) was in Texas. That's impossible. There are 5 Basic Combat Training sites in the Army, Ft Benning, Ft Knox, Ft Leonard Wood, Ft Jackson, and Ft Sill. Females are only trained at Leonard Wood (Missouri) and Jackson (South Carolina). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hal06 ( talk • contribs) 17:20, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I've modified the article to indicate that Lynch attended basic training at Fort Jackson, NC. Page 35 of her book I Am a Soldier, Too indicates that she trained there and the the next chapter "Boot" alludes to this training. After completion of basic training she, as did all Quartermaster solders, attended Advanced Individual Training at Fort Lee, VA. Ehrentitle 19:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I took out the line that says "It is entirely possible that she received the best care that that hospital could provide, which was not as good as American military hospitals could provide." While it may be true under the circumstance, it's unsourced, speculative, and I don't think it adds anything meaningful to the context. Polarrrbear ( talk) 16:43, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Considering the Bronze Star (being one of the highest military honors) was awarded under a bogus scenario, and Jessica sharply denies the events leading up to the award, is there any information out there as to why she has not forfeited the award? Or has she? Either way, I think if it can be sourced, it is worth a mention. I haven't been able to find anything. Angrymansr ( talk) 17:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I think that is amusing that the government blames the media for the hype, and vice versa; and, it shows what crooks run the country and feed us our daily ration of bull shit (the news). Anyway you cut it; "The first casualty in war is..." It is appalling that she has received hate mail (if true), but that shows what a lot of neanderthals people this country.
Against all statistical odds at least four of the soldiers on the "rescue-mission" died between July-October 2003:
- Josh Daniel Speer (Jul 6, 2003 | single vehicle accident)
[1]
- David M Tapper (Aug 20, 2003 | shot in the back during ambush in Afghanistan)
[2]
- Kyle Edward Williams (Oct 1, 2003 | apparent suicide)
[3]
- Sok Khak Ung (Oct 19, 2003 | murdered)
[4]
The rescuers' deaths have nothing to do with an article on Jessica Lynch -- Wkerney 12:35, 2 September 2008
In this Henry Rollins interview, he mentioned he had nude photos of her, but did NOT use or release them because she was so open and honest about NOT being the made-up hero that Bush & Co. wanted her to pretend to be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo__QEKVAmw 199.214.26.82 ( talk) 18:54, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
I think Flint's claims should be included, as they are referenced in many interviews. I could say that 'he claimed' or whatever, but his efforts did bring the story to the forefront. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndarth ( talk • contribs) 04:29, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
How can Piestewa Peak overlook a house in Flagstaff, AZ when they are separated by some 140 miles? Lowellt ( talk) 00:47, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
This article is rated Start class by one WikiProject, B-class by another, and GA status by a third. What gives? -- Another Believer ( Talk) 05:43, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I removed this portion ", a nearby mountain-top over looking the valley where the house was built and commemorated by the design team." from the paragraph that originally read " In the course of the episode, a memorial for Piestewa was placed on Piestewa Peak, a nearby mountain-top over looking the valley where the house was built and commemorated by the design team."
My reason is this: according to Google maps, Piestewa Peak and Flagstaff Arizona are 139 miles apart, making it impossible to "overlook" the house. See Google Maps. 59.101.33.190 ( talk) 13:35, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
The article currently mixes several versions of events in each paragraph, with each version contradicting the others. It's very hard to get any idea of Lynch's story from this. Perhaps the presentation would be clearer if we could distill some kind of cohesive narrative (perhaps the "official version" of events), then collect together all the disputes and contradictions in another section? -- Doradus ( talk) 18:01, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
I see something in this article that shouldn't be here but I'm not sure what to do about it. Out of respect to the people who have actively worked on this page, I'm not the one to fix it. If this were a clearinghouse for conspiracy theorists and anti-war activists, I could add pages of material. Is it? Some pf the people involved can neither release, confirm nor deny information pertaining to operations ever, and cannot respond to these wild claims. The BBC article that claims Marines were using blanks and that a rescue was staged is known to be false by people who were there.
It doesn't belong here. Just because you can quote an online article doesn't give the information weight. In the civilian BBC writer's defense, I should add that to a bystanding doctor it may have looked like something they'd seen on TV, because that's the only place they'd ever seen anything like that. It's the conclusions woven here that are wrong. The Marines may well have used some noisemakers in their diversion. Without a real target, you wouldn't want them making noise with the real thing would you?
Spec-ops units don't usually send a couple guys down in a taxi to pick up a hostage from a hospital, no matter what somebody at a checkpoint tells them, or comes in with pictures of, it's just not how things are done. Nothing has to be staged, it's what they do. They aren't going to show up at that hospital differently because they think maybe there aren't any bad guys there. They were armed to the teeth and ready to control a section of the city if necessary.
I'm sorry for getting into the content. It's just that it's woven in here in such a way that it really needs redaction. There are 50 websites online spinning this, and that's all it is. If this Wiki is going to have factual information, this sort of speculation needs to be held in check. The facts aren't in evidence. I suppose I shouldn't complain, sometimes media myth spinners are a soldiers best ally.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.17.219.231 ( talk) 15:01, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Why was this renamed Jessica Lynch (Prisoner of War)? Wouldn't Jessica Lynch (soldier) be more appropriate? Niteshift36 ( talk) 02:56, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
The number one reference for this article shows jessica-lynch.com. That website is simply a fan site and is also a scam to use Jessica's name to sell services. Jessica Lynch DOES NOT ENDORSE the scamming site jessica-lynch.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.100.31.203 ( talk) 05:11, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Why is it noted that Al Sharpton thinks Jessica's VA disability rate is higher than other black soldiers? This is absurd, as each soldier is rated for disability based on the injuries suffered. Jessica was clearly severely injured in numerous areas of her body. Medical Doctor's determine ones disability. Al Sharpton's conspiracy theories have no place on an article about Jessica Lynch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.97.72.162 ( talk) 22:59, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Well the reference to Al Sharpton was there yesterday, so YOU check your facts! Such nonsense is a prime example of why Wikipedia articles are not allowed to be used as reference materials for school papers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.97.72.162 ( talk) 23:28, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Nighthift36, thank you! You are correct, none of it belongs for exactly the reasons you specify. Keep up the good work!
Some, including Rev. Jesse Jackson have criticized the high level of media coverage given to Lynch, compared to other soldiers involved in the ambush, such as Shoshana Johnson, saying that Johnson, an African-American, received little media attention largely because of her race. [5]
The opinion of one person vs the qualified decision of the several Medical Doctors at the VA rating board is absurd. To put al sharptons opinion in this article means every conspiracy theorist should have their opinions in. Metal lunchbox... stop cyberbullying Jessica Lynch.
Metallunchmeat, please STOP cyberbullying Jessica Lynch! Thanks!!!!
Per WP:ALSO, I have created a "See also" section pointing to Missing white woman syndrome, which contains directly relevant material and may be a suitable solution to this discussion. Steamroller Assault ( talk) 00:49, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Jessica's first interview was with Dianne Sawyer, and that interview is neglected in the media section. Wikipedia is the free encyclopedia, I guess you get what you pay for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.215.11.165 ( talk) 16:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
A new section named staged rescue should be added. This should be the first section becasue the Jessica Lynch is famous because she was used by the Pentagon for their own gain. It seems there are two points of view to this story: - US point of view. - non-US point of view.
In the US, the mass media is subject to manipulation and censorship, therefore US citizesn who access this will be inclined towards the ir story which exposes private Lynch as a hero. The non-US media emphasizes this story as pure propaganda.
We must make sure we can constrain the US attitudes so this stays in the neutral point of view
I have changed the introduction. Feel free to correct/change.
i removed the section labled "differing accounts" and added the sentiment to the section above it. i beleive this portion of the article was beyond editorial and into the realm of deceiptful. apparant syllogisms where used to support a conspiracy theory and it is shameful to have this connected to the name of a soldier. the idea that the mission was staged is false. i know this first hand being that i was in the hospital. perhaps a bigger media hype was made than should have been, but to make the leap from media hype to scandal without factual basis is uncalled for. if you wish to express opinon about the war do it elsewhere. there are many places on the web where you can accuse the government of scandal. when scandal is present i agree with the need. in this case though the accusation is unfounded. although there was "verification" added to this section the source is more than questionable and harldy expert. i do beleive it pertinent to mention the alternate theories and the link section povides several avenues for intersted readers to explore these theories. i beleive assosiating conspiracy theory with this poor girls name is adding insult to injury litteraly. the theory is adaquately described in the new edit without sensationalism
also there where 8 bodies discovered at the hospital i added this to the portion describing the rescue in addition to providing credible verification in the links section Lukebruhns (former army ranger who took part in the operation)11:01, 18 February 2007 (UTC)
Wow, this is one of the more POV articles I have read in Wikipedia. It is notionally about Jessica Lynch, but maybe 50% of the text concerns her. The rest is either 'bad war, bad Americans' or character assasination of some guy called Mohammed. One example of the POV - how is it relevant to Lynch that someone asserts that the US Miltary did not offer to compensate an Iraqi hospital for damage caused during her rescue? Editors seem to have dewlt almost lovingly over every slahed sand bed, broken door or offended Iraqi, while dismissing in one sentence the notion that the troops concerned considered that they were undertaking a Prisoner snatch in a war zone.
The war and the US armed forces must be incredibly unpopular if this passes as unbiased in the US. Or is that that editors are attempting to use this article to counter a perceived Government bias? I'm not an American and I live half a world away, so I don't know the answer, but I suspect my remoteness is the reason why I see a lack of balance here that other US-based editors do not.
I can't be bold on this one I'm afraid, because I have no expert knowledge, but I can recognise bias when I read it. For the record, I don't like the war or my own country's involvement in it either - but that's no excuse for polemic. RichardH 13:52, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
I find the above comment amusing. Jessica Lynch was used as a propaganda tool by the Bush administration. The only reason we ever heard her name is because Bush wanted to promote the idea of a West Virginia girl hero to sell the war. What would Jefferson think?
Wanna know another irony? Saddam Hussein was a friend of the United States, and actually visited Detroit. He donated money to the local churches (which Middle East oriented of course), and received the key to the city of Detroit.
Yup, better believe the irony, but Lynch is from a town called Palestine.
This has nothing to do with the article. ThePartyVan 22:00, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
What does "Pfc" stand for? I assume it means "Private first class". This should be explained, preferably by someone who knows for certain (i.e. not me). -- Stephen Gilbert
[1] is an interesting news item that may prove valuable to the evolution of this article. Kingturtle 04:43 Apr 4, 2003 (UTC)
Bravo. this article is very well done. Kingturtle 02:21 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)
Last I heard 8 of the 9 bodies brought to the U.S.A. were identified as Americans. Was one of them not from her unit? Rmhermen 03:05 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)
"Despite early reports, she was said not to have suffered gunshot or stab wounds" is a more accurate account than rmhermen's last edit. See this news source: [3] Kingturtle 03:10 Apr 9, 2003 (UTC)
Conspiracy theories notwithstanding, the ubiquitous news reports narrating the story of Mohammed the lawyer and his wife the nurse cannot be characterized as "unconfirmed" or "apocryphal." Dozens of well-respected journalists have met this man and interviewed him. -- NetEsq 20:02 Apr 11, 2003 (UTC)
There should definitely be more references to the sources of information in this article. Times of war are times of lies and propaganda, after all. Matthias
This article contains nine external links. That is excessive, especially since they point to news items that say the same thing this article says. Are they meant to be references rather than external links? If they are meant to be references, then they should be in reference format, not external link format. External links are meant more to take users to official sites, sites of experts on an issue, sites that offer different points of view on a contraversial topic. What exist in this article, IMHO, are references. References have a different syntax and format to follow. Kingturtle 06:07 Apr 19, 2003 (UTC)
May be a small thing but was this really the first rescue of a POW since WW2? If that were true there would have to be no rescues during Vietnam or Korea, which sounds unlikely. Any references? DJ Clayworth 21:05, 27 Aug 2003 (UTC)
There WAS an attempt to rescue POWs in Viet Nam, but the intel was old and the POWs had been moved several weeks prior to the raid.
What you MAY be thinking of are the numerous rescues of pilots shot down during both wars (particularly Viet Nam), such as Iceal Hambelton (Bat 21)...but those were not the same, as those aircrew were never under the command and control of opposing forces....the definition of a POW. Lynch WAS under the C&C of the Iraqis, meaning she was a POW (in fact, until US forces raided the hospital, her status was unknown, as her body wasn't in the pile the Iraqis filmed, nor was the shows with the others of her company), and thus, her rescue was the first rescue of a POW from behind enemy lines since WWII.
We are not in the business of deciding on or reporting on whether the actions were "justified". DanKeshet
When you go into an unknown situation in a war zone, you MUST presume the worst...you don't just walk up, knock on the door, and politely ask for your POW to be returned, particularly ina country where local forces were using civlian buildings as military staging posts (which makes them legitimate targets, by the way)
For sure! Think of the agencies with floorspace in wtc7...
"Free" from Iraq is evident from the article; the term for a discharged soldier is "private citizen" but since that's also evident from the article I removed the phrase. - Hephaestos 16:51, 28 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Here's an interesting item:
Source: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=32824
"I am not a hero" she says...but she'll take the $1 million book deal. Kingturtle 16:29, 7 Nov 2003 (UTC)
Let's clarify this...#1 she split the book fee with Bragg, then there are taxes on the remainder, AND starting her pwn charitible fund with the remainder. Couple that with the unknown factor of how much medical care she will need for the rest of her life -- some of which may not be covered by her vet's status -- and taking the book deal was a good call.
I am in the military, she has lifetime full health care as a veteran, starting her own charity involves no money of her own, and she read the book, and then approved of its content. Which means she agreed to all the lies that were printed in it. She is the epitome of the shitbag soldier. We in the army have no respect for her, her weapon did not jam. She simply froze. She ignored all of the training she had recieved, and froze. This is a proven, documented fact that only people who hace security clearance have access to the filed document. It was purposely witheld from the media that she froze, and she was the one who said the weapon jammed. Since it fit with what the suits in charge were going for, they let it rest.
I'm wondering why there is link to a page about Tim Collins (soldier) which seems completely unrelated to Jessica Lynch except they were both soliders in Iraq.-- enceladus 23:13, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Someone using the IP 71.244.108.146 wrote:
I challenge them to produce documentation that the rescuers encountered any resistance. -- Geo Swan 20:07, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
I believe the military said numerous times that while there was no resistance at the hospotal itself, there WAS resistance in the immediate area.
I've heard on Alex Jones that Jessica Lynch did some topless spreads which I Googled saying there were photos that were pulled. Anybody have any insight?
Speculum
There apparently were candid topless photos taken of Jessica Lynch during a party with other soldiers while she was in basic training or advanced individual training. I remember a news story indicating that these were purchased by Larry Flynt to prevent publication.
-- Ehrentitle 12:29, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
Those photos could not have been taken during basic or AIT, if you knew anyhting about the military, both basic and AIT soldiers are watched over stricter than prison inmates. They dont have any time for something like that, and if they did, they males are kept separated from the females in any and all situations like that.
Shouldn't this section reference "alleged" photographs, since no one but Flynt has claimed to see them, and there is some dispute about whether the story was made up for Flynt's own publicity. 12.206.43.178 01:12, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
I removed the voltairenet article because, while well written, it seemed that the useful content could simply be incorporated into this wikipedia article. That is, it did not meet the fairly strict criteria for external links. Nevertheless, GeoSwan seems to have more experience on this category of wikipedia article so if you think this is a valuable link, I withdraw my objection. -- Yamla 20:41, 16 December 2005 (UTC)
I removed the following from the article: "Though not publicaly, a lot of soldiers hold resentment towards Lynch for what some call stupidy and cowardice. The jam on her rifle was a simple round stuck in the chamber which could have been fixed by pulling back the charging handle and then didnt fix it and refused to fight out of fear. This is stated by herself in a personal times interview. In some circles of the amry there have she is seens as given a hero's status just becuase shes a woman." As it seems to be unsourced and contains a lot of weasel words ("a lot of", "what some call", "In some circles", "is seen as"). Ziggurat 22:09, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
Not to mention that others in her unit had the exact same problem....and one of her of superiors (Sgt. Dowdy, who died in the Humvee she was in) tried to clear the jam without success. It was a common problem in theater, and not just for the 507th.
The article clearly states at the beginning that Jessica Lynch's middle name is Dawn, but then goes on to say that she names her daughter Dakota Ann after friend Lori Ann Piestewa, "and all three individuals share the middle name of Ann." Both statements conflict. -- Delong71487 05:50, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
there is very little info about ther life outside the war. 61.2.67.26 14:38, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
I thought this news story merited a new article, since the investigation extends to the Tillman affair as well. Im not sure what to call it, though:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/T/TILLMAN_LYNCH?SITE=KYB66&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
-- popefauvexxiii 16:25, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Based not on her recollection, a statement by an examining doctor, or a claim by a Government agency but an article by a reporter based in New York who appears to have left his job after claiming other people's work as his own. Does this merit inclusion? -- Herne nz 03:04, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm not having any luck finding evidence that the Pentagon ever hyped Lynch as a "Rambo". The first official report on that subject appears to have come out in July, 2003, and said that she did not fight back. By contrast, there is plenty of evidence that they hyped the rescue but not her conduct in the fight in which she was captured. RFabian 15:44, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
The following is written under the "Lynch's Criticism" section of this article, and I just noticed it:
In fact, the Pentagon never made such claims about Lynch. The first official report of Lynch's actions that day released by the Pentagon said that she did not appear to have fought back against her captors. The stories of her supposed heroics that day were spread by the news media and by Democratic Congressmen from her own state of West Virginia. [9]
The obvious intent of this remark appears to be to deflect criticism regarding the controversy around this story off of the Pentagon and on to unnamed "Democratic congressmen." It seems slightly POV against Democrats (or the news media, a frequent tip-off to a conservative bias), but that may be acceptable if the assertion is in fact true. The news media, notably the NBC movie, did perpetuate a false story. But who were the congressmen?
The problem is that the article sourced (note 9) as supporting evidence makes no reference of particular West Virginian congressmen, let alone that they were Democrats. I didn't make an edit to the page assuming the assertion might be true. Perhaps I missed the source reference? Perhaps the article could be made more specific by naming the actual congressmen?
72.11.81.88 07:05, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
It seems that Jessica Lynch, Miss New York 2003 erroneously redirects to this article. How does one fix that? -- Chops79 15:12, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
While I, personally, would use the term 'Propaganda' as an appropriate description of the Pentagon's handling of PFC Lynch's story, I feel it is not appropriate for use here, because...
Therefore, I propose the use of less harsh phrases, such as "P.R." and "Spin"
They were intentional lies. Things stated by the Pentagon were flat out lies, not giving a vague subjective view but a flat out contradiction to the events witnessed first hand by Lynch and the staff of the hospital (not to mention those pesky inteligence reports that show they already knew). Nor is propaganda "derogatory", many government have officially called departments within their "PR" propaganda.
It's not a "durp P.R. spin", it was flat out lies known to those stating them in order to gain support during wartime. It's propaganda and it's going back in. 203.59.21.45 ( talk) 04:22, 11 March 2011 (UTC) Sutter Cane
The intro makes no sense. " Lynch, along with major media outlets, fault the U.S. government for creating the story as part of the Pentagon's propaganda effort" What story? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.94.87.209 ( talk) 19:48, 27 January 2011 (UTC)
This is a really calm article...where are the gop memory-holers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.154.162.190 ( talk) 22:51, 6 January 2009 (UTC) How does a comment like this help this article at all? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.237.119.62 ( talk) 18:55, 15 December 2011 (UTC)
Former US Army Specialist Scott Bruno was the person who intercepted the 13 minute video depicting many of the dead in this case, many of which were shot point blank execution style. The footage was prime intelligence material as the video showed the external and internal buildings surrounding the area in which the battle took place as well as many other clues that would lead to forming a snatch and grab team to go in and retrieve the dead and survivors. Fox News at the time actually aggressively pursued this video from Bruno who nearly gave it up, this only after his Pentagon contact stated that after reviewing the video that it was closing time back east and he would DEAL WITH THIS ISSUE IN THE MORNING! Outraged, Bruno has yet to tell the entire story, which if things did not go the way they did under such time delays, may have very well allowed for more lives to be saved. We'll never know. To gain insite into Specialist Bruno's accounts and life in the military you are welcome to find his website at http://www.scottbruno.com and http://411.scottbruno.com -- 05:35, 12 August 2007 Caliwebman
The article says "Boot camp" (a term not used in the Army) was in Texas. That's impossible. There are 5 Basic Combat Training sites in the Army, Ft Benning, Ft Knox, Ft Leonard Wood, Ft Jackson, and Ft Sill. Females are only trained at Leonard Wood (Missouri) and Jackson (South Carolina). —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hal06 ( talk • contribs) 17:20, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I've modified the article to indicate that Lynch attended basic training at Fort Jackson, NC. Page 35 of her book I Am a Soldier, Too indicates that she trained there and the the next chapter "Boot" alludes to this training. After completion of basic training she, as did all Quartermaster solders, attended Advanced Individual Training at Fort Lee, VA. Ehrentitle 19:05, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
I took out the line that says "It is entirely possible that she received the best care that that hospital could provide, which was not as good as American military hospitals could provide." While it may be true under the circumstance, it's unsourced, speculative, and I don't think it adds anything meaningful to the context. Polarrrbear ( talk) 16:43, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Considering the Bronze Star (being one of the highest military honors) was awarded under a bogus scenario, and Jessica sharply denies the events leading up to the award, is there any information out there as to why she has not forfeited the award? Or has she? Either way, I think if it can be sourced, it is worth a mention. I haven't been able to find anything. Angrymansr ( talk) 17:11, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
I think that is amusing that the government blames the media for the hype, and vice versa; and, it shows what crooks run the country and feed us our daily ration of bull shit (the news). Anyway you cut it; "The first casualty in war is..." It is appalling that she has received hate mail (if true), but that shows what a lot of neanderthals people this country.
Against all statistical odds at least four of the soldiers on the "rescue-mission" died between July-October 2003:
- Josh Daniel Speer (Jul 6, 2003 | single vehicle accident)
[1]
- David M Tapper (Aug 20, 2003 | shot in the back during ambush in Afghanistan)
[2]
- Kyle Edward Williams (Oct 1, 2003 | apparent suicide)
[3]
- Sok Khak Ung (Oct 19, 2003 | murdered)
[4]
The rescuers' deaths have nothing to do with an article on Jessica Lynch -- Wkerney 12:35, 2 September 2008
In this Henry Rollins interview, he mentioned he had nude photos of her, but did NOT use or release them because she was so open and honest about NOT being the made-up hero that Bush & Co. wanted her to pretend to be. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oo__QEKVAmw 199.214.26.82 ( talk) 18:54, 23 October 2008 (UTC)
I think Flint's claims should be included, as they are referenced in many interviews. I could say that 'he claimed' or whatever, but his efforts did bring the story to the forefront. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Johndarth ( talk • contribs) 04:29, 30 October 2011 (UTC)
How can Piestewa Peak overlook a house in Flagstaff, AZ when they are separated by some 140 miles? Lowellt ( talk) 00:47, 21 June 2009 (UTC)
This article is rated Start class by one WikiProject, B-class by another, and GA status by a third. What gives? -- Another Believer ( Talk) 05:43, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
I removed this portion ", a nearby mountain-top over looking the valley where the house was built and commemorated by the design team." from the paragraph that originally read " In the course of the episode, a memorial for Piestewa was placed on Piestewa Peak, a nearby mountain-top over looking the valley where the house was built and commemorated by the design team."
My reason is this: according to Google maps, Piestewa Peak and Flagstaff Arizona are 139 miles apart, making it impossible to "overlook" the house. See Google Maps. 59.101.33.190 ( talk) 13:35, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
The article currently mixes several versions of events in each paragraph, with each version contradicting the others. It's very hard to get any idea of Lynch's story from this. Perhaps the presentation would be clearer if we could distill some kind of cohesive narrative (perhaps the "official version" of events), then collect together all the disputes and contradictions in another section? -- Doradus ( talk) 18:01, 28 June 2010 (UTC)
I see something in this article that shouldn't be here but I'm not sure what to do about it. Out of respect to the people who have actively worked on this page, I'm not the one to fix it. If this were a clearinghouse for conspiracy theorists and anti-war activists, I could add pages of material. Is it? Some pf the people involved can neither release, confirm nor deny information pertaining to operations ever, and cannot respond to these wild claims. The BBC article that claims Marines were using blanks and that a rescue was staged is known to be false by people who were there.
It doesn't belong here. Just because you can quote an online article doesn't give the information weight. In the civilian BBC writer's defense, I should add that to a bystanding doctor it may have looked like something they'd seen on TV, because that's the only place they'd ever seen anything like that. It's the conclusions woven here that are wrong. The Marines may well have used some noisemakers in their diversion. Without a real target, you wouldn't want them making noise with the real thing would you?
Spec-ops units don't usually send a couple guys down in a taxi to pick up a hostage from a hospital, no matter what somebody at a checkpoint tells them, or comes in with pictures of, it's just not how things are done. Nothing has to be staged, it's what they do. They aren't going to show up at that hospital differently because they think maybe there aren't any bad guys there. They were armed to the teeth and ready to control a section of the city if necessary.
I'm sorry for getting into the content. It's just that it's woven in here in such a way that it really needs redaction. There are 50 websites online spinning this, and that's all it is. If this Wiki is going to have factual information, this sort of speculation needs to be held in check. The facts aren't in evidence. I suppose I shouldn't complain, sometimes media myth spinners are a soldiers best ally.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.17.219.231 ( talk) 15:01, 9 January 2011 (UTC)
Why was this renamed Jessica Lynch (Prisoner of War)? Wouldn't Jessica Lynch (soldier) be more appropriate? Niteshift36 ( talk) 02:56, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
The number one reference for this article shows jessica-lynch.com. That website is simply a fan site and is also a scam to use Jessica's name to sell services. Jessica Lynch DOES NOT ENDORSE the scamming site jessica-lynch.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.100.31.203 ( talk) 05:11, 9 August 2011 (UTC)
Why is it noted that Al Sharpton thinks Jessica's VA disability rate is higher than other black soldiers? This is absurd, as each soldier is rated for disability based on the injuries suffered. Jessica was clearly severely injured in numerous areas of her body. Medical Doctor's determine ones disability. Al Sharpton's conspiracy theories have no place on an article about Jessica Lynch. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.97.72.162 ( talk) 22:59, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Well the reference to Al Sharpton was there yesterday, so YOU check your facts! Such nonsense is a prime example of why Wikipedia articles are not allowed to be used as reference materials for school papers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.97.72.162 ( talk) 23:28, 10 August 2011 (UTC)
Nighthift36, thank you! You are correct, none of it belongs for exactly the reasons you specify. Keep up the good work!
Some, including Rev. Jesse Jackson have criticized the high level of media coverage given to Lynch, compared to other soldiers involved in the ambush, such as Shoshana Johnson, saying that Johnson, an African-American, received little media attention largely because of her race. [5]
The opinion of one person vs the qualified decision of the several Medical Doctors at the VA rating board is absurd. To put al sharptons opinion in this article means every conspiracy theorist should have their opinions in. Metal lunchbox... stop cyberbullying Jessica Lynch.
Metallunchmeat, please STOP cyberbullying Jessica Lynch! Thanks!!!!
Per WP:ALSO, I have created a "See also" section pointing to Missing white woman syndrome, which contains directly relevant material and may be a suitable solution to this discussion. Steamroller Assault ( talk) 00:49, 11 August 2011 (UTC)
Jessica's first interview was with Dianne Sawyer, and that interview is neglected in the media section. Wikipedia is the free encyclopedia, I guess you get what you pay for. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.215.11.165 ( talk) 16:25, 1 September 2011 (UTC)