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Hundred Family Surnames is bad grammar. I'm proposing to move it to "One Hundred Family Names". If no objections, I will do the move in a couple of days. -- Sumple ( Talk) 20:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I think the Chinese text should be removed, if it is not kept there for some special purpose. People who want to find that text can go to zh:百家姓. -- Niohe 23:11, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
From a cursory glance at the list, it contains nowhere near 504 surnames, so it looks like the list is incomplete. Also, I noticed that a non-double surname, 华, was listed twice. That can't be right, unless it was a simplication that combined two traditional characters, and I'm not aware of such a character. -- Yuje 18:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
the second 华 should be 毕. Flora 07:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Yuje, your "cursory glance" seems off the mark - I count 35 lines with 16 characters each, and one with 8 characters, adding up to 568 characters. Of these at least 58 are part of two-character names (quite possibly I have overlooked some of these...), so we have 510 separate entries; minus the closing line we get 506, which seems close enough for me to assume we are dealing with the complete text here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChrisZ78 ( talk • contribs) 11:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
The last line are not surnames at all. -- 72.75.63.66 22:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello, anyone reading this. I once edited this page, but Underbar dk reverted my edits. I changed the Complete text section into a Wikitable, with columns "Simplified Chinese", "Traditional Chinese", "Hanyu Pinyin" and "Article". The "Article" column may be redundant, but I want to know if putting in Traditional Chinese or Simplified Chinese or both would be better in the complete text section? I think that it is better to put both, as Mainland China, Singapore and Malaysia uses the Simplified while Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau and Kowloon uses the Traditional. In this case, I think it is way fairer instead of all in Traditional Chinese. I understand the fact that the Baijiaxing is about the top 504 surnames in the Song Dynasty. Nonetheless, more people uses Simplified Chinese BUT the use of Traditional Chinese is still existing; therefore I think that it is better to put it in a Wikitable with 3 main colums, "Traditional Chinese", "Simplified Chinese" and "English". Thanks, and reply (as well as ping me) at the bottom for youth put in your two cents' worth and I would be very grateful to hear that. Cheers, Nahnah4 | Any thoughts? Pen 'em down here! | No Editcountitis! 08:23, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
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|
I have to say I agree with Nahnah4, the ruby text rendering is awkward. Why shouldn't we dissect the text? That is the whole purpose of the wikipedia article. It is useless to try to preserve the original rendering or to even use that as inspiration. There is no shortage of full texts of the Hundred Names text on the internet and there's even one on wikisource. It's not exactly rare.
The rendering with the ruby text is messy and unclear. A table is much better, but I would suggest that the table be made to mark line endings, from the original, such as with a thicker black line. I would also suggest a short excerpt of the original text be included without the ruby, just to give the reader an impression of how it is formatted (ie. as a poem), the current rendering with the ruby text, doesn't read as a poem, it reads as a red and blue mess. NahNah4's solution includes both simplified and traditional, which is useful to the reader. The simple declaration that "we" don't put simplified characters in articles about classical texts is weak. Most Chinese speakers use Simplified Characters today, so it's obviously useful and we put simplified characters in articles about Chinese topics of all kinds. Consensus can change. - Metal lunchbox ( talk) 14:57, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
@ Underbar dk: I already said, put the <br/> tags and write the Pinyin at the bottom. Great, condescending person who assumed I didn't know the answer. DEW. Adrenaline ( Nahnah4) 08:01, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
趙 錢 孫 李 | 周 吳 鄭 王 | 馮 陳 褚 衛 | 蔣 沈 韓 楊 |
|
|
百家姓 | |||
---|---|---|---|
1-3 |
No. | Simplified Chinese | Traditional Chinese | English |
---|---|---|---|
1 | 赵 | 趙 | Zhao |
2 | 钱 | 錢 | Qian |
3 | 孙 | 孫 | Sun |
4 | 李 | Li | |
5 | 周 | Zhou | |
6 | 吴 | 吳 | Wu |
7 | 郑 | 鄭 | Zheng |
8 | 王 | Wang | |
9 | 冯 | 馮 | Feng |
10 | 陈 | 陳 | Chen |
11 | 褚 | Chu | |
12 | 卫 | 衛 | Wei |
13 | 蒋 | 蔣 | Jiang |
14 | 沈 | Shen | |
15 | 韩 | 韓 | Han |
16 | 杨 | 楊 | Yang |
Hundred Family Surnames | |||
---|---|---|---|
1-3 |
赵钱孙李 周吴郑王 冯陈褚卫 蒋沈韩杨 |
朱秦尤许 何吕施张 孔曹严华 金魏陶姜 |
戚谢邹喻 柏水窦章& 云苏潘葛 奚范彭郎 |
Hundred Family Surnames | |||
---|---|---|---|
1-3 |
赵钱孙李 周吴郑王 冯陈褚卫 蒋沈韩杨 |
朱秦尤许 何吕施张 孔曹严华 金魏陶姜 |
戚谢邹喻 柏水窦章& 云苏潘葛 奚范彭郎 |
趙錢孫李 周吳鄭王 馮陳褚衛 蔣沈韓楊 |
朱秦尤許 何呂施張 孔曹嚴華 金魏陶姜 |
戚謝鄒喻 柏水竇章 雲蘇潘葛 奚范彭郎 | |
zhào qián sūn lǐ zhōu wú zhèng wáng féng chén chǔ wèi jiǎng chén hán yáng |
zhū qín yóu xǔ hé lǚ shī zhāng kǒng cáo yán huá jīn wèi táo jiāng |
qī xiè zōu yù bǎi shuǐ dòu zhāng yún sū pān gé xī fàn péng láng |
Hundred Family Surnames | |||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1-3 | 赵 趙 zhào |
钱 錢 qián |
孙 孫 sūn |
李 李 lǐ |
周 周 zhōu |
吴 吳 wú |
郑 鄭 zhèng |
王 王 wáng |
冯 馮 féng |
陈 陳 chén |
褚 褚 chǔ |
卫 衛 wèi |
蒋 蔣 jiǎng |
沈 沈 shen |
韩 韓 hán |
杨 楊 yáng |
Above I have tried to create the tables as suggested by Nahnah4 along with the current ruby, the two column version of the ruby and the current Chinese Wikipadia version. I think that putting the pinyin under the Chinese is messy. the pinyin no longer matches up with the Chinese script and it breaks over two lines. Maybe you could solve this by making the Chinese text bigger and the pinyin smaller and putting each character into a table cell so that they all lined up. However, doing that would just make it look very much like the ruby already looks which would defeat the entire purpose. Rincewind42 ( talk) 14:42, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Hundred Family Surnames | |||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
赵 趙 zhào |
钱 錢 qián |
孙 孫 sūn |
李 李 lǐ |
周 周 zhōu |
吴 吳 wú |
郑 鄭 zhèng |
王 王 wáng | ||||||||||||
冯 馮 féng |
陈 陳 chén |
褚 褚 chǔ |
卫 衛 wèi |
蒋 蔣 jiǎng |
沈 沈 shen |
韩 韓 hán |
杨 楊 yáng |
Eight characters per line to make line endings from the original obvious and to work better on smaller screens. Wikilinking of the names as in the original. Removing numbers, not sure what those mean. Some obvious style improvements could be made, such as removing vertical borders, but you get the idea. It accomplishes much of what the original does, but shows lines more clearly, includes simplified characters in a not-too-cumbersome way, avoids redundant wikilinking, and works in browsers which don't render ruby characters the way you would like them too. I think it works well. Does any else feel a similar way? 16:10, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi, everybody. I think the content section lacks a brief analysis of the origins of specific surnames. For example, I have seen before that Xie comes from the name of a place in ancient times. -- Jacobjia66 ( talk) 08:47, 19 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hundred Family Surnames is bad grammar. I'm proposing to move it to "One Hundred Family Names". If no objections, I will do the move in a couple of days. -- Sumple ( Talk) 20:57, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I think the Chinese text should be removed, if it is not kept there for some special purpose. People who want to find that text can go to zh:百家姓. -- Niohe 23:11, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
From a cursory glance at the list, it contains nowhere near 504 surnames, so it looks like the list is incomplete. Also, I noticed that a non-double surname, 华, was listed twice. That can't be right, unless it was a simplication that combined two traditional characters, and I'm not aware of such a character. -- Yuje 18:45, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
the second 华 should be 毕. Flora 07:59, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
Yuje, your "cursory glance" seems off the mark - I count 35 lines with 16 characters each, and one with 8 characters, adding up to 568 characters. Of these at least 58 are part of two-character names (quite possibly I have overlooked some of these...), so we have 510 separate entries; minus the closing line we get 506, which seems close enough for me to assume we are dealing with the complete text here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ChrisZ78 ( talk • contribs) 11:50, 5 June 2010 (UTC)
The last line are not surnames at all. -- 72.75.63.66 22:15, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Hello, anyone reading this. I once edited this page, but Underbar dk reverted my edits. I changed the Complete text section into a Wikitable, with columns "Simplified Chinese", "Traditional Chinese", "Hanyu Pinyin" and "Article". The "Article" column may be redundant, but I want to know if putting in Traditional Chinese or Simplified Chinese or both would be better in the complete text section? I think that it is better to put both, as Mainland China, Singapore and Malaysia uses the Simplified while Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau and Kowloon uses the Traditional. In this case, I think it is way fairer instead of all in Traditional Chinese. I understand the fact that the Baijiaxing is about the top 504 surnames in the Song Dynasty. Nonetheless, more people uses Simplified Chinese BUT the use of Traditional Chinese is still existing; therefore I think that it is better to put it in a Wikitable with 3 main colums, "Traditional Chinese", "Simplified Chinese" and "English". Thanks, and reply (as well as ping me) at the bottom for youth put in your two cents' worth and I would be very grateful to hear that. Cheers, Nahnah4 | Any thoughts? Pen 'em down here! | No Editcountitis! 08:23, 6 August 2014 (UTC)
|
|
I have to say I agree with Nahnah4, the ruby text rendering is awkward. Why shouldn't we dissect the text? That is the whole purpose of the wikipedia article. It is useless to try to preserve the original rendering or to even use that as inspiration. There is no shortage of full texts of the Hundred Names text on the internet and there's even one on wikisource. It's not exactly rare.
The rendering with the ruby text is messy and unclear. A table is much better, but I would suggest that the table be made to mark line endings, from the original, such as with a thicker black line. I would also suggest a short excerpt of the original text be included without the ruby, just to give the reader an impression of how it is formatted (ie. as a poem), the current rendering with the ruby text, doesn't read as a poem, it reads as a red and blue mess. NahNah4's solution includes both simplified and traditional, which is useful to the reader. The simple declaration that "we" don't put simplified characters in articles about classical texts is weak. Most Chinese speakers use Simplified Characters today, so it's obviously useful and we put simplified characters in articles about Chinese topics of all kinds. Consensus can change. - Metal lunchbox ( talk) 14:57, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
@ Underbar dk: I already said, put the <br/> tags and write the Pinyin at the bottom. Great, condescending person who assumed I didn't know the answer. DEW. Adrenaline ( Nahnah4) 08:01, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
趙 錢 孫 李 | 周 吳 鄭 王 | 馮 陳 褚 衛 | 蔣 沈 韓 楊 |
|
|
百家姓 | |||
---|---|---|---|
1-3 |
No. | Simplified Chinese | Traditional Chinese | English |
---|---|---|---|
1 | 赵 | 趙 | Zhao |
2 | 钱 | 錢 | Qian |
3 | 孙 | 孫 | Sun |
4 | 李 | Li | |
5 | 周 | Zhou | |
6 | 吴 | 吳 | Wu |
7 | 郑 | 鄭 | Zheng |
8 | 王 | Wang | |
9 | 冯 | 馮 | Feng |
10 | 陈 | 陳 | Chen |
11 | 褚 | Chu | |
12 | 卫 | 衛 | Wei |
13 | 蒋 | 蔣 | Jiang |
14 | 沈 | Shen | |
15 | 韩 | 韓 | Han |
16 | 杨 | 楊 | Yang |
Hundred Family Surnames | |||
---|---|---|---|
1-3 |
赵钱孙李 周吴郑王 冯陈褚卫 蒋沈韩杨 |
朱秦尤许 何吕施张 孔曹严华 金魏陶姜 |
戚谢邹喻 柏水窦章& 云苏潘葛 奚范彭郎 |
Hundred Family Surnames | |||
---|---|---|---|
1-3 |
赵钱孙李 周吴郑王 冯陈褚卫 蒋沈韩杨 |
朱秦尤许 何吕施张 孔曹严华 金魏陶姜 |
戚谢邹喻 柏水窦章& 云苏潘葛 奚范彭郎 |
趙錢孫李 周吳鄭王 馮陳褚衛 蔣沈韓楊 |
朱秦尤許 何呂施張 孔曹嚴華 金魏陶姜 |
戚謝鄒喻 柏水竇章 雲蘇潘葛 奚范彭郎 | |
zhào qián sūn lǐ zhōu wú zhèng wáng féng chén chǔ wèi jiǎng chén hán yáng |
zhū qín yóu xǔ hé lǚ shī zhāng kǒng cáo yán huá jīn wèi táo jiāng |
qī xiè zōu yù bǎi shuǐ dòu zhāng yún sū pān gé xī fàn péng láng |
Hundred Family Surnames | |||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1-3 | 赵 趙 zhào |
钱 錢 qián |
孙 孫 sūn |
李 李 lǐ |
周 周 zhōu |
吴 吳 wú |
郑 鄭 zhèng |
王 王 wáng |
冯 馮 féng |
陈 陳 chén |
褚 褚 chǔ |
卫 衛 wèi |
蒋 蔣 jiǎng |
沈 沈 shen |
韩 韓 hán |
杨 楊 yáng |
Above I have tried to create the tables as suggested by Nahnah4 along with the current ruby, the two column version of the ruby and the current Chinese Wikipadia version. I think that putting the pinyin under the Chinese is messy. the pinyin no longer matches up with the Chinese script and it breaks over two lines. Maybe you could solve this by making the Chinese text bigger and the pinyin smaller and putting each character into a table cell so that they all lined up. However, doing that would just make it look very much like the ruby already looks which would defeat the entire purpose. Rincewind42 ( talk) 14:42, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Hundred Family Surnames | |||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
赵 趙 zhào |
钱 錢 qián |
孙 孫 sūn |
李 李 lǐ |
周 周 zhōu |
吴 吳 wú |
郑 鄭 zhèng |
王 王 wáng | ||||||||||||
冯 馮 féng |
陈 陳 chén |
褚 褚 chǔ |
卫 衛 wèi |
蒋 蔣 jiǎng |
沈 沈 shen |
韩 韓 hán |
杨 楊 yáng |
Eight characters per line to make line endings from the original obvious and to work better on smaller screens. Wikilinking of the names as in the original. Removing numbers, not sure what those mean. Some obvious style improvements could be made, such as removing vertical borders, but you get the idea. It accomplishes much of what the original does, but shows lines more clearly, includes simplified characters in a not-too-cumbersome way, avoids redundant wikilinking, and works in browsers which don't render ruby characters the way you would like them too. I think it works well. Does any else feel a similar way? 16:10, 15 August 2014 (UTC)
Hi, everybody. I think the content section lacks a brief analysis of the origins of specific surnames. For example, I have seen before that Xie comes from the name of a place in ancient times. -- Jacobjia66 ( talk) 08:47, 19 January 2022 (UTC)