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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 August 2021 and 3 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Kaliek..
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It seems to me the introduction is rather biased as it implies, constantly, that there is an exclusive ethnic hellenic component to the adherents of this religion, if you check the article's history and the user who made the changes you can clearly see the bias, while some may view ethnicity as an important component to the religion, others do not, I would urge anyone to change it, it does not speak for the plurality of the adherents of the religion around the world, many of whom would not find it wrong to be called pagans. In short the introduction is a mess with a clear bias and intent on calling this religion a greek ethnicity-only thing, which is not. -- 189.151.102.63 ( talk) 00:46, 3 December 2021 (UTC)-- 189.151.102.63 ( talk) 00:46, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
"adherents of the religion around the world" what adherents? are we talking about members of one organized religion? Or just a group of random unorganized people making claims? Would it be wise for Hellenists to have their own page to reflect their values, and so on for each organized group? There seems to be different named religions being forced under one term that cannot be harmonized. In Greece, the state has legally recognized "Hellenic Ethnic Religion" and "Ancient Greek Religion" whose members' document papers, such as ID, reflect their religion. Do Hellenists have an equivalent named religion they can point to? Are we talking about Hellenists in Hellenion?
KLEOPATROS7 (
talk) 01:08, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
Is there a consensus between all communities that "Hellenism" is strictly religion? If everyone agreed, Greeks and non-Greeks, that when Hellenism is spoken of, everyone is thinking only religion, then the arguments above seem grounded. But if Greeks and non-Greeks do not understand Hellenism the same, that it is or is not just religion, then this page is redundant. If there is consensus, please provide evidence from both sides, a Greek organization representing a Hellenic religion, and a non-Greek organization that both agree that Hellenism, strictly speaking, is only religion to move this issue forward. If there is a consensus then inclusive language should be reflected in the article. If not, then perhaps, again, this page is not viable. KLEOPATROS7 ( talk) 01:25, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
This article does not seem to be written from a neutral point of view, in that it spends much more time discussing the correct or desired perception of adherents than explaining the belief system itself and its history. Few facts are given early in the article. Contributors seem to be in dispute over whether it's a religion or not. Numerous previous entries on this talk page suggesting a complete rewrite would seem to support the use of this tag.
Replying to the paragraph above. Perhaps the fair thing to do for all parties is to delete this page all together since it was problematic since it was created. In all honesty individual pages should be created for individual legally recognized religions that have names for them. "Hellenism" is too broad of a term to use to speak on all the legal religions recognized by the Hellenic Republic and the one incorporated organization in the USA. Because this page may be open to abuse, by individuals or groups without a legally incorporated body to officially represent their side, it is bound to fall into disagreements and conflict.
KLEOPATROS7 (
talk) 22:38, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
I suggest this page needs a major overhaul as it appears to have been written with a bias towards the perspectives and assumptions of US groups that no longer exist or that are in terminal decline. Groups in Greece started to appear on the net about the same time as the US decline and they have different perspectives & assumptions.
A more objective approach needs to be taken when talking about Hellenism and needs to be based on or closely related to the actual history of the term as a religious moniker from the mid fourth century. Other methods are often derived and lead to confusion when expanded, this has lead to an inability or unwillingness to further define Hellenism as a specific historical belief system.
If there are no objections I'll register and begin a piecemeal rewrite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.60.23.206 ( talk) 11:55, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
Adopted Methodology:
Beginning with the general history and meaning of the term and then its origin and use as a religious name for a specific religious tradition.
Developing a full account of the beliefs and practices associated with that tradition.
Concluding with an account of later history, survival and revivals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.60.23.206 ( talk) 13:36, 17 October 2014 (UTC) -- GemistosPlethon ( talk) 13:47, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
The introduction to the article states that this is not a religion, more an activity based around understanding the ancient religious practices by reconstructing them. So why does the body of the article go on to refer to it as a religion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.147.154.31 ( talk) 17:36, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Should this still be considered a valid link? It is suppose to be an annual periodical, but there has only been one released, 2006. There looks to be no activity on the site, with no updates as to the status of future publications. I'm not sure this can be considered a legitimate source, if it ever really was. -- 141.158.54.153 ( talk) 20:38, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
This is in regards to the statement, "Not all modern Hellenic polytheists use a Reconstructionist methodology. A 2004 survey of 94 American Hellenic polytheists by Sarah Winter showed that 64% considered themselves to be Reconstructionist." The book provided no data analysis, and there was no weeding out of respondents. All respondents were included in the presentation, and no minimum standard for what a Hellenic Polytheist is and is not seems to have been used. Those who identify as Witch, Ceremonial Magician, Eclectic Pagan, Pagan, and Religio Romana had their answers included with those who where specifically a Hellenic Polytheist. Almost corresponding exactly to those who are not Reconstructionist are those that did not even identify as Hellenic. I do not believe this source can be used to prove the assertion made.-- 151.201.149.33 ( talk) 17:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Hellenion (USA) redirected here after failing to meet general notability guidelines. -- 151.201.147.150 ( talk) 17:04, 21 March 2008 (UTC) 76.21.123.178 ( talk) 22:49, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Is the section "Hellenic polytheism in Wicca" at all appropriate in the context of the greater article? It seems to imply a link between the Hellenic tradition and Wicca, when one does not exist.
There is no real link between Hellenismos and Wicca other than each being non-Abrahamic. They are not linked with any form of shared ethical code, set of practices, core values, institutions, common traditions and rituals, recognized sacred texts, or history. Religions that share some closer link with Hellenismos include many Reconstructionist religions such as the Asatru, Religio Romana, Romuva, Celtic Recon, and some other indigenous religions. ( Hellenismos Frequently Asked Questions)
I think it should either be removed or reworked. I'm leaning towards deleted since Hellenic Polytheism implies the Ancient Greek religions, and the modern Hellenic religious movements, of which Wicca is neither.-- 151.201.147.150 ( talk) 18:03, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't Hellenic polytheistic reconstructionism be this article's primary identifier, rather then Hellenic Neopaganism? The article seems to make the point that this is the case, with most groups rejecting the identifiers Pagan and Neopagan for various reasons. -- 151.201.147.150 ( talk) 18:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't quite agree with this move. "Neopaganism" is a neutral categorisation, quite independent of "endorsement" or "rejection" by individual groups. "Polytheistic Reconstructionism" is a much (much) more narrow concept and only applies to a tiny minority of Neopagans. We can quote hellenismos.us as documenting the viewpoint of (some) adherents, but they do not have terminological superiority: already by calling Asatru "Reconstructionist" they show that their terminology is completely skewed. Not even Icelandic Asatru claims to be reconstructionist, and much less the US variants which are much more into racial mysticism and/or New Age syncretism than anything related to reconstructionism proper. dab (𒁳) 14:37, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
I believe adding the Neopaganism2 template is inappropriate for this article. While in a very technical sense Hellenic reconstruction is Neopagansim (New non-Abrihamic religion), it is as appropriate to classify it in such a way as it is to Classify Buddhism and Hinduism as Pagan. Popular Pagan culture (which the Hellenic tradition is being lumped into here) promotes a very eclectic and very individualistic form of practice based primarily on unverified personal gnosis blended with Wicca-ish, NeoDruid-ish, and/or HOGD-ish methodologies. Modern Paganism also has an exclusionary attitude toward more well defined religions that are traditional or reconstructionist. It is inappropriate to imply that Hellenism is Greek flavored Neopagansim. -- 151.201.148.127 ( talk) 17:50, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
The section on Political controversy and discrimination is a bulleted list. It should be reformatted. -- N-k, 23:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
While at one time at the forefront of the Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionist movement in the United States, these groups can no longer be considered as authoritative sources for the movement today.
I believe this article needs to either clarify these groups and organizations current status or remove reference of them. -- 151.201.147.161 ( talk) 13:04, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I question the statement "There are no standardized naming practices for this religion, and individual practitioners and groups use a variety of names, often reflecting subtle differences in belief or practice." In looking at much of the listed sources for this article, it would seem the phrases Hellenismos, Hellenism, the Hellenic tradition, the Hellenic religion, and Hellenic Polytheism are all used interchangeably to refer to the religion, and are synonymous. The phrase Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionism refers to the overall movement and the methodology used to revive the religion, but is not the religion itself. The words Dodekatheism and Olympianism refer to specifc "denominations" that serve as branches focusing on specific schools of thought or the public practices of a specific polis, yet are still referred to as being included under Hellenismos, Hellenism, the Hellenic tradition, the Hellenic religion, and Hellenic Polytheism, and are part of the Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionist movement. -- 151.201.147.161 ( talk) 15:04, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I am disputing the inclusion of Kharis: Hellenic Polytheism Explored by Sarah Kate Winter and A Temple of Words: Essays culled from five years of "Sannion's Sanctuary" by H. Jeremiah Lewis.
Neither of these publications can be considered reliable reading material in regards to this specific article and topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.201.147.161 ( talk) 16:12, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- I have read KHARIS: Hellenic Polytheism Explored and see nothing wrong with including it in this section. I have carefully evaluated this text. It clearly stays on the topic of Hellenic Polytheism, and addresses key issues in the religion quite well. While I cannot speak to the book by H. Jeremiah Lewis, it is quite interesting that the dispute here seems to follow current Drama divisions in the community. 131.229.151.21 ( talk) 02:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
The section on Hellenic polytheism and Wicca seems to be treated by some as a dumping ground for any dissatisfaction with Neopaganism in general, and these people seem to be bringing more opinion that fact to it. Recent edits did a great job of misrepresenting the Wiccan view of the deities, conflating traditional Wicca and "Eclectic Wicca", and ultimately conflating Wicca and Neopaganism. I'm happy to believe that this comes down to ignorance, and I'll try to explain some of the problems here a bit better.
A lot has been said about Wicca by the uninformed, particularly in the ridiculous publishing industry that has shot up around Charmed, Buffy and Silver Ravenwolf. Wicca, as understood by initiates and as described in earlier works, tends to be rather different to the views espoused in this generic dross. The gods are seen as one Goddess and one God, and potentially a greater godhead who is so remote from human concerns as to be virtually of no interest to us. The Goddess and God are not necessarily seen as connected with all other gods from other cultures, although Wicca is an orthopraxy rather than an orthodoxy, and some initiates understand things in these terms. But it's surprisingly uncommon to find (traditional) Wiccan covens invoking any gods but our own beloved God and Goddess (names withheld).
In the early literature (Gerald Gardner's books, for instance) our God and Goddess are hypothesised to be the tribal gods of the witch cult, and there's nothing universal about them at all. There are still plenty who see things in this way.
And of course these hypotheses have a certain amount of historical support; for instance Georg Luck, Professor Emeritus at Harvard University describes the fusing of the Roman Pan and the Celtic Cernunnos to form a powerful deity around which the pagani, resisting conversion to Christianity, rallied (Arcana Mundi, pp. 6-7); Carlo Ginzburg, Gustav Henningsen and other academic scholars have demonstrated the long survival in Europe and the British Isles of goddess worship and surrounding ecstatic/magical cults, and shown how they substantially contributed to the diabolised stereotype of the witches' sabbath. Ronald Hutton has probably been the most vocal historian arguing a lack of precedents for Wicca, but then, his is a very ideosynchratic view, and he takes a number of extreme positions rather distant from usual academic consensus in the fields of witchcraft history, pagan antiquity, pagan survivals into the Christian period, and the history of hermeticism and ceremonial magic.
Of course this is hardly of vital importance to most Wiccans, since we are not even attempting historical reconstruction. We simply commune with our Gods by our traditional methods or whatever way works best. I understand that in reconstructionism there is the concept of "gnosis" and "shared personal gnosis" that helps validate the path you're going down; this kind of stuff is the very brick and mortar of Wicca, and any serious coven works with this constantly; it's what mysticism and magic are all about. Criticisms in terms of historical accuracy just don't make sense.
In short, Wicca is not synonymous with 'witchcraft', and is not the same as Neopaganism, and there is a world of difference between Wicca in its traditional form and the "Eclectic Wicca" that's become popular largely in the last 10 or 15 years. In the wider neopagan community we can find plenty of examples of embarrassing ideas, cultural misappropriation and the like, but to use these to snipe at Wicca is hardly reasonable. In fact I don't know why there's any sniping at Wicca at all, since we're not trying to tell the Reconstructionists how to conduct their religion. We wouldn't presume. I think what the article should do rather than emphasise this kind of ankle-biting is to simply make clear what the differences are between HPR and other popular forms of (neo)paganism — don't single out Wicca (we're just as unhappy with the crass popular views of neopaganism as you are), and don't make it a complaint. Fuzzypeg ★ 00:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I am disputing the sentence, "Key to most ethical systems is the idea of kharis, or the reciprocity between humanity and the Gods, between individuals, and among community members." Kharis translates to favor or divine reward, which was believed dependant on reciprocity, but is not the concept of reciprocity. It is factually incorrect. -- 151.201.149.209 ( talk) 00:12, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Made a clarification of charis (kharis)by giving the related internal links. The word really does not convey the concept of reciprocity - but... ( Eidimon ( talk) 19:25, 19 October 2008 (UTC))
I believe that the text bellow should be included to preserve the balance in the article:
It should be noted that this recent use of the term Hellenismos, for the ancient Greek religion or its modern reconstucted forms by some of its adherents today, it is questioned or even disputed as abusive by leading authorities on Greek Language and today's Greek society in general (as "Hellenismos" has a much broader meaning without religious connotations: to be Greek or Greekness). ( Eidimon ( talk) 20:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC))
And this is relevant in what way? If Hellenists (as in worshippers of the 12 gods) wish to call themselves this, then these 'leading authorities' are just going to have to cop it. And there is no need for balance in this article; if thats the case please allow me to go to the page on Christianity and state that it is a Middle Eastern Death Cult according to many Pagans. Not interested? Didn't think so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.131.210.26 ( talk) 15:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
"Ἀρεταὶ δὲ λόγου εἰσὶ πέντε, Ἑλληνισμός, σαφήνεια, συντομία, πρέπον, κατασκευή. Ἑλληνισμὸς μὲν οὖν ἐστι φράσις ἀδιάπτωτος ἐν τῇ...." There are five excellences of speech—pure Greek, lucidity, conciseness, appropriateness, distinction. By good Greek is meant language faultless in point... In my view, pagans have taken a Greek word of crucial importance to Greek identity and appropriated it for self-legitimization. This matter needs to be resolved. KLEOPATROS7 ( talk) 22:26, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
Is there a universal Hellenismos symbol? I wrote Portal:Hellenismos and added it and Portal:Heathenism to Portal:Wicca's 'related portals,' since Wicas may want to know about other modern paganism (though I did not put portal:Wicca in the reconstructionist ones for obvious reasons.) I am asking about symbols because someone put a picture of Zeus for portal:Hellenismos on portal:Wicca. While he, or Hestia, may be a most important symbol of Dodecatheism, perhaps he is not as much for Hellenismos as a whole, since I have read many of the ancient Greek cults were separate until mythology related them. I was also reading online about possible symbols, and people recommended the wreath, and the vergina sun. Maybe there is no specific main symbol that does not refer to a specific deity. Do you think the portal should have one (or a combination) of these two symbols I mentioned, or is the bust of Zeus fine? (which for now I added in the religion portal)-- Dchmelik ( talk) 05:19, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
This statement doesn't hold water: " [...] there is little academic material to suggest that [magic] was used widely in ancient religion." Especially given that the citation is not to any sort of scholarly work, but to a Neopagan's personal theological reflection. Work like that by Christopher Faraone (see this) speaks definitively that magic (a problematic category, sure, but setting that aside) WAS practiced in ancient Greece. I find that the sentiment that magic was not practiced in ancient Greece a stance of the school of thought associated particularly with Timothy Jay Alexander and hellenismos.us. Needs attention. 128.135.96.194 ( talk) 23:08, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
This article does not follow guidelines for external links. The external link section appears to be serving as a directory of online resources which is not an encyclopedic function. Joja lozzo 02:11, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
As the relevant article needs some work, I have been bold and started with a redirect. The reasons are numerous.
First, there clearly needs to be greater consistency within Wikipedia among the related articles. For example, the corresponding portal is already called the "Hellenismos" portal.
Secondly, upon some brief researching, the term Hellenismos would seem to have precedence over Hellenism when referring to the modern worship of the Greek Gods. There are other terms for such worship, (all of which are relatively modern as the Ancient Greeks used none of them) but Hellenismos is more often used than Hellenism. The most prominent books and websites of the religion bear this out. With similar research, the term Hellenism is shown to be used mainly in reference to a historical period.
Thirdly, the term Hellenismos would appear to have no popular usage outside the context of a modern worship of the ancient Greek Gods. Even limiting a discussion of the term Hellenism to Wikipedia pages, one quickly finds a disambiguation page with approximately 10 linked articles. And again, most of these pages/articles concern a certain period of history and different aspects of that period.
The main page for just about every religion here seems to be devoted to information on that religion, with related articles branching out from there. I see no problem with the religion of the Ancient Greeks being described as a Hellenistic religion, as that was the culture that they were living in. But modern practitioners of Hellenismos do not necessarily have any ethnic or cultural connection to the Greeks of today.
Obviously, there is no unquestionably clear choice. Hellenismos or Greek polytheistic reconstructionism / Greek Paganism is a relatively new religious movement, with a verifiable origin going back about 20 to 30 years. So I'm willing to hash out the issue but there was apparently no consensus decision in the first place when the original article was redirected from Hellenismos. Reigndog ( talk) 00:00, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
"Hellenism" is a centuries old term and it is used in scholarly books. It was coined by emperor Julian (of course, as he spoke Latin it was surely "Hellenismus", and when speaking in Greek "Hellenismos"; and has been rendered "Hellenism" in English in later centuries). Just search on Google Books and you'll find plenty of books on the subject; for example:
By contrast, "Hellenismos" and "Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionism" are used on American "pagan" blogs by American people who know little or nothing at all about Greek religion: they aren't an academic or scientific terminology.-- 82.48.10.211 ( talk) 18:45, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
--- Hellenism is the same thing as Hellenismos ontologically. They are two English renditions of the Greek "ελληνισμόσ" - The confusion is the result of English speakers trying to form a term to express ancient Greek religion in an ISM of some kind. I am more than happy to help sort this out and update the wikipage with proper sources. We need to figure out how to put everything into order so it all makes sense. English "Hellenism" comes from the German "Hellenismus". Hellenismos is an English transliteration of "ελληνισμόσ". They both refer to the one and same thing "ελληνισμόσ". — Preceding unsigned comment added by KLEOPATROS7 ( talk • contribs) 13:44, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
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Πριν από πολλούς ή λίγους αιώνες, ανάλογα με την Ιστορία του κάθε έθνους μας, ο επιθετικός Μονοθεϊσμός κατέστρεψε τις Παραδόσεις μας, τις εθνικές μας ταυτότητες, τις Θρησκείες μας, και σε πολλές περιπτώσεις μας μετέτρεψε σε μειοψηφίες μέσα στις ίδιες μας τις πατρίδες. Πάρα πολλοί από εμάς, αγωνιζόμαστε. Όμως θέλει μεγάλη προσοχή στην στρατηγική αυτού του αγώνα που κάνουμε. Όποιος αγωνίζεται, λανθασμένα, για να μην εξαφανιστεί, και μόνο γι' αυτό, για να μην εξαφανιστεί, με την πρώτη ήττα θα εξαφανιστεί. Αντίθετα, όσοι αγωνίζονται για να πάρουν πίσω αυτά που τους ανήκουν, να πάρουν πίσω αυτά που τους έκλεψαν, να πάρουν πίσω την εθνική τους ταυτότητα, τον προγονικό τους Πολιτισμό, την εθνική τους Θρησκεία, το αξιακό σύστημα του έθνους στο οποίο ανήκουν, δεν πρόκειται ποτέ, ποτέ μα ποτέ, να ηττηθούν πραγματικά, άσχετα από το πόσες πιθανές εφήμερες, πρόσκαιρες ήττες θα υποστούν απέναντι στον πολύ ισχυρότερο εχθρό. Το μήνυμα είναι πως δεν αγωνιζόμαστε για να μην εξαφανιστούμε. Αγωνιζόμαστε για να πάρουμε πίσω όλα αυτά που μας ανήκαν. Και εξακολουθούν να μας ανήκουν. Και θα τα πάρουμε πίσω. Με την βοήθεια των εθνικών μας Θεών.
69.27.201.250 ( talk) 15:56, 13 March 2017 (UTC)by mike smith== the voice of Supreme Council of Ethnikoi Hellenes ==
Πριν από πολλούς ή λίγους αιώνες, ανάλογα με την Ιστορία του κάθε έθνους μας, ο επιθετικός Μονοθεϊσμός κατέστρεψε τις Παραδόσεις μας, τις εθνικές μας ταυτότητες, τις Θρησκείες μας, και σε πολλές περιπτώσεις μας μετέτρεψε σε μειοψηφίες μέσα στις ίδιες μας τις πατρίδες. Πάρα πολλοί από εμάς, αγωνιζόμαστε. Όμως θέλει μεγάλη προσοχή στην στρατηγική αυτού του αγώνα που κάνουμε. Όποιος αγωνίζεται, λανθασμένα, για να μην εξαφανιστεί, και μόνο γι' αυτό, για να μην εξαφανιστεί, με την πρώτη ήττα θα εξαφανιστεί. Αντίθετα, όσοι αγωνίζονται για να πάρουν πίσω αυτά που τους ανήκουν, να πάρουν πίσω αυτά που τους έκλεψαν, να πάρουν πίσω την εθνική τους ταυτότητα, τον προγονικό τους Πολιτισμό, την εθνική τους Θρησκεία, το αξιακό σύστημα του έθνους στο οποίο ανήκουν, δεν πρόκειται ποτέ, ποτέ μα ποτέ, να ηττηθούν πραγματικά, άσχετα από το πόσες πιθανές εφήμερες, πρόσκαιρες ήττες θα υποστούν απέναντι στον πολύ ισχυρότερο εχθρό. Το μήνυμα είναι πως δεν αγωνιζόμαστε για να μην εξαφανιστούμε. Αγωνιζόμαστε για να πάρουμε πίσω όλα αυτά που μας ανήκαν. Και εξακολουθούν να μας ανήκουν. Και θα τα πάρουμε πίσω. Με την βοήθεια των εθνικών μας Θεών. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.27.201.250 ( talk) 15:53, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
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Hello,just want to ask if you can add the information about the recognision of 'Hellenismos' or the revived form of the Ancient Greek religion made by the Greek state? https://m.facebook.com/HellenicTradition/posts/1266907963377401 Kp4816 ( talk) 05:55, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
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YSEE is a racist, homophobic nationalist group. Ethan6809 ( talk) 03:49, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
The title of this article is Hellenism (Modern Religion), revised from Hellenism (Religion) (to disambiguate from ancient Greek religion). Therefore, the subject matter should be first and foremost the religion. While it is important (for disambiguation) to mention that "Hellenism" can also be used to refer to the totality of Greek culture, this should not be in the opening sentence of the article. There are already articles about Greek culture, including Culture of Greece. If you wish, you may create a new article called Hellenism (Greek Culture) specifically for this subject. Nath.king93 ( talk) 05:16, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Please show me another culture -ism that separates their Wikipedia articles in such as way? Is there Hinduism (modern religion) v Hinduism (Hindu culture) and so on? It is very obvious that Hellenism is being defined and distorted by non-Greek pagans in a blatant act of appropriation. Hellenism is not a religion. Religions based on Hellenism have names to them. Two examples are Hellenic Ethnic Religion and Ancient Hellenic Religion, both are legal bodies in Greece. This article is very misleading. Kleopatros7 ( talk) 03:03, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
The term "Hinduism" has never been used to refer to the entirety of Hindu culture. In fact, most countries don't use an -ism for the entirety of their current and/or historical culture which is why you don't have terms like "Hinduism" or "Indianism" or even "Mexicanism". Considering that Hellenism as a cultural movement, expanded past the bounds of Modern Greece, there is no sense in your claim of "appropriation" and it actually comes across as rather chauvinistic. Also, if you have a problem with the English article using 'Hellenism', maybe take a look at the Greek article where it is also used. 210.1.210.3 ( talk) 04:55, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
I propose the name of this page be changed to "Modern Greek Religions" - given the usage of Hellenism in the Angloshphere is controversial. KLEOPATROS7 ( talk) 22:40, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
I can get behind the name being changed to "Modern Hellenic Religion", since there is not a single name in use at the moment. Tell me what you think KLEOPATROS7. Hieros-pallas ( talk) 11:09, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
The official historical name is "Hellenism" not "Random Greek religions", you don't seem to understand that Ancient religions aren't the same as Abrahamic medieval-modern churches. There is no central dogma but common cultural ties, the different Greek Poleis had their own variations of myths and worshipped the same gods in different ways (for example, Athenians worshipped Athena more prominently than say, Ares or Poseidon, people of Delphi worshipped Apollo more than Athena, etc. each with their own rituals and costumes). And this also changed with the different eras (look at the differences between Roman Hellenism and Mycenaean one). In a similar way, modern reconstructionism doesn't have a central Hellenic Church where an Hellenic Pope commands what people should believe, but rather every person, cult, nation adopts their own traditions and ways. It could be chaotic for our Western Christian understanding but not for them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.182.127.185 ( talk) 12:48, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
As a neutral party I have noticed edit-warring on this topic. Im initiating discussions of the Appropriation of Hellenism second on the article.
The section is correctly cited and well written, a dispute about a single citation does not constitute the removal of a whole section off the article.
Please discuss and find corrective action, not distructive action. TagKnife ( talk) 04:41, 27 January 2024 (UTC)
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It seems to me the introduction is rather biased as it implies, constantly, that there is an exclusive ethnic hellenic component to the adherents of this religion, if you check the article's history and the user who made the changes you can clearly see the bias, while some may view ethnicity as an important component to the religion, others do not, I would urge anyone to change it, it does not speak for the plurality of the adherents of the religion around the world, many of whom would not find it wrong to be called pagans. In short the introduction is a mess with a clear bias and intent on calling this religion a greek ethnicity-only thing, which is not. -- 189.151.102.63 ( talk) 00:46, 3 December 2021 (UTC)-- 189.151.102.63 ( talk) 00:46, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
"adherents of the religion around the world" what adherents? are we talking about members of one organized religion? Or just a group of random unorganized people making claims? Would it be wise for Hellenists to have their own page to reflect their values, and so on for each organized group? There seems to be different named religions being forced under one term that cannot be harmonized. In Greece, the state has legally recognized "Hellenic Ethnic Religion" and "Ancient Greek Religion" whose members' document papers, such as ID, reflect their religion. Do Hellenists have an equivalent named religion they can point to? Are we talking about Hellenists in Hellenion?
KLEOPATROS7 (
talk) 01:08, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
Is there a consensus between all communities that "Hellenism" is strictly religion? If everyone agreed, Greeks and non-Greeks, that when Hellenism is spoken of, everyone is thinking only religion, then the arguments above seem grounded. But if Greeks and non-Greeks do not understand Hellenism the same, that it is or is not just religion, then this page is redundant. If there is consensus, please provide evidence from both sides, a Greek organization representing a Hellenic religion, and a non-Greek organization that both agree that Hellenism, strictly speaking, is only religion to move this issue forward. If there is a consensus then inclusive language should be reflected in the article. If not, then perhaps, again, this page is not viable. KLEOPATROS7 ( talk) 01:25, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
This article does not seem to be written from a neutral point of view, in that it spends much more time discussing the correct or desired perception of adherents than explaining the belief system itself and its history. Few facts are given early in the article. Contributors seem to be in dispute over whether it's a religion or not. Numerous previous entries on this talk page suggesting a complete rewrite would seem to support the use of this tag.
Replying to the paragraph above. Perhaps the fair thing to do for all parties is to delete this page all together since it was problematic since it was created. In all honesty individual pages should be created for individual legally recognized religions that have names for them. "Hellenism" is too broad of a term to use to speak on all the legal religions recognized by the Hellenic Republic and the one incorporated organization in the USA. Because this page may be open to abuse, by individuals or groups without a legally incorporated body to officially represent their side, it is bound to fall into disagreements and conflict.
KLEOPATROS7 (
talk) 22:38, 2 December 2021 (UTC)
I suggest this page needs a major overhaul as it appears to have been written with a bias towards the perspectives and assumptions of US groups that no longer exist or that are in terminal decline. Groups in Greece started to appear on the net about the same time as the US decline and they have different perspectives & assumptions.
A more objective approach needs to be taken when talking about Hellenism and needs to be based on or closely related to the actual history of the term as a religious moniker from the mid fourth century. Other methods are often derived and lead to confusion when expanded, this has lead to an inability or unwillingness to further define Hellenism as a specific historical belief system.
If there are no objections I'll register and begin a piecemeal rewrite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.60.23.206 ( talk) 11:55, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
Adopted Methodology:
Beginning with the general history and meaning of the term and then its origin and use as a religious name for a specific religious tradition.
Developing a full account of the beliefs and practices associated with that tradition.
Concluding with an account of later history, survival and revivals. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.60.23.206 ( talk) 13:36, 17 October 2014 (UTC) -- GemistosPlethon ( talk) 13:47, 17 October 2014 (UTC)
The introduction to the article states that this is not a religion, more an activity based around understanding the ancient religious practices by reconstructing them. So why does the body of the article go on to refer to it as a religion? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.147.154.31 ( talk) 17:36, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
Should this still be considered a valid link? It is suppose to be an annual periodical, but there has only been one released, 2006. There looks to be no activity on the site, with no updates as to the status of future publications. I'm not sure this can be considered a legitimate source, if it ever really was. -- 141.158.54.153 ( talk) 20:38, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
This is in regards to the statement, "Not all modern Hellenic polytheists use a Reconstructionist methodology. A 2004 survey of 94 American Hellenic polytheists by Sarah Winter showed that 64% considered themselves to be Reconstructionist." The book provided no data analysis, and there was no weeding out of respondents. All respondents were included in the presentation, and no minimum standard for what a Hellenic Polytheist is and is not seems to have been used. Those who identify as Witch, Ceremonial Magician, Eclectic Pagan, Pagan, and Religio Romana had their answers included with those who where specifically a Hellenic Polytheist. Almost corresponding exactly to those who are not Reconstructionist are those that did not even identify as Hellenic. I do not believe this source can be used to prove the assertion made.-- 151.201.149.33 ( talk) 17:10, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
Hellenion (USA) redirected here after failing to meet general notability guidelines. -- 151.201.147.150 ( talk) 17:04, 21 March 2008 (UTC) 76.21.123.178 ( talk) 22:49, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
Is the section "Hellenic polytheism in Wicca" at all appropriate in the context of the greater article? It seems to imply a link between the Hellenic tradition and Wicca, when one does not exist.
There is no real link between Hellenismos and Wicca other than each being non-Abrahamic. They are not linked with any form of shared ethical code, set of practices, core values, institutions, common traditions and rituals, recognized sacred texts, or history. Religions that share some closer link with Hellenismos include many Reconstructionist religions such as the Asatru, Religio Romana, Romuva, Celtic Recon, and some other indigenous religions. ( Hellenismos Frequently Asked Questions)
I think it should either be removed or reworked. I'm leaning towards deleted since Hellenic Polytheism implies the Ancient Greek religions, and the modern Hellenic religious movements, of which Wicca is neither.-- 151.201.147.150 ( talk) 18:03, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
Shouldn't Hellenic polytheistic reconstructionism be this article's primary identifier, rather then Hellenic Neopaganism? The article seems to make the point that this is the case, with most groups rejecting the identifiers Pagan and Neopagan for various reasons. -- 151.201.147.150 ( talk) 18:42, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
I don't quite agree with this move. "Neopaganism" is a neutral categorisation, quite independent of "endorsement" or "rejection" by individual groups. "Polytheistic Reconstructionism" is a much (much) more narrow concept and only applies to a tiny minority of Neopagans. We can quote hellenismos.us as documenting the viewpoint of (some) adherents, but they do not have terminological superiority: already by calling Asatru "Reconstructionist" they show that their terminology is completely skewed. Not even Icelandic Asatru claims to be reconstructionist, and much less the US variants which are much more into racial mysticism and/or New Age syncretism than anything related to reconstructionism proper. dab (𒁳) 14:37, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
I believe adding the Neopaganism2 template is inappropriate for this article. While in a very technical sense Hellenic reconstruction is Neopagansim (New non-Abrihamic religion), it is as appropriate to classify it in such a way as it is to Classify Buddhism and Hinduism as Pagan. Popular Pagan culture (which the Hellenic tradition is being lumped into here) promotes a very eclectic and very individualistic form of practice based primarily on unverified personal gnosis blended with Wicca-ish, NeoDruid-ish, and/or HOGD-ish methodologies. Modern Paganism also has an exclusionary attitude toward more well defined religions that are traditional or reconstructionist. It is inappropriate to imply that Hellenism is Greek flavored Neopagansim. -- 151.201.148.127 ( talk) 17:50, 22 May 2008 (UTC)
The section on Political controversy and discrimination is a bulleted list. It should be reformatted. -- N-k, 23:45, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
While at one time at the forefront of the Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionist movement in the United States, these groups can no longer be considered as authoritative sources for the movement today.
I believe this article needs to either clarify these groups and organizations current status or remove reference of them. -- 151.201.147.161 ( talk) 13:04, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I question the statement "There are no standardized naming practices for this religion, and individual practitioners and groups use a variety of names, often reflecting subtle differences in belief or practice." In looking at much of the listed sources for this article, it would seem the phrases Hellenismos, Hellenism, the Hellenic tradition, the Hellenic religion, and Hellenic Polytheism are all used interchangeably to refer to the religion, and are synonymous. The phrase Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionism refers to the overall movement and the methodology used to revive the religion, but is not the religion itself. The words Dodekatheism and Olympianism refer to specifc "denominations" that serve as branches focusing on specific schools of thought or the public practices of a specific polis, yet are still referred to as being included under Hellenismos, Hellenism, the Hellenic tradition, the Hellenic religion, and Hellenic Polytheism, and are part of the Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionist movement. -- 151.201.147.161 ( talk) 15:04, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
I am disputing the inclusion of Kharis: Hellenic Polytheism Explored by Sarah Kate Winter and A Temple of Words: Essays culled from five years of "Sannion's Sanctuary" by H. Jeremiah Lewis.
Neither of these publications can be considered reliable reading material in regards to this specific article and topic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.201.147.161 ( talk) 16:12, 6 September 2008 (UTC)
- I have read KHARIS: Hellenic Polytheism Explored and see nothing wrong with including it in this section. I have carefully evaluated this text. It clearly stays on the topic of Hellenic Polytheism, and addresses key issues in the religion quite well. While I cannot speak to the book by H. Jeremiah Lewis, it is quite interesting that the dispute here seems to follow current Drama divisions in the community. 131.229.151.21 ( talk) 02:10, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
The section on Hellenic polytheism and Wicca seems to be treated by some as a dumping ground for any dissatisfaction with Neopaganism in general, and these people seem to be bringing more opinion that fact to it. Recent edits did a great job of misrepresenting the Wiccan view of the deities, conflating traditional Wicca and "Eclectic Wicca", and ultimately conflating Wicca and Neopaganism. I'm happy to believe that this comes down to ignorance, and I'll try to explain some of the problems here a bit better.
A lot has been said about Wicca by the uninformed, particularly in the ridiculous publishing industry that has shot up around Charmed, Buffy and Silver Ravenwolf. Wicca, as understood by initiates and as described in earlier works, tends to be rather different to the views espoused in this generic dross. The gods are seen as one Goddess and one God, and potentially a greater godhead who is so remote from human concerns as to be virtually of no interest to us. The Goddess and God are not necessarily seen as connected with all other gods from other cultures, although Wicca is an orthopraxy rather than an orthodoxy, and some initiates understand things in these terms. But it's surprisingly uncommon to find (traditional) Wiccan covens invoking any gods but our own beloved God and Goddess (names withheld).
In the early literature (Gerald Gardner's books, for instance) our God and Goddess are hypothesised to be the tribal gods of the witch cult, and there's nothing universal about them at all. There are still plenty who see things in this way.
And of course these hypotheses have a certain amount of historical support; for instance Georg Luck, Professor Emeritus at Harvard University describes the fusing of the Roman Pan and the Celtic Cernunnos to form a powerful deity around which the pagani, resisting conversion to Christianity, rallied (Arcana Mundi, pp. 6-7); Carlo Ginzburg, Gustav Henningsen and other academic scholars have demonstrated the long survival in Europe and the British Isles of goddess worship and surrounding ecstatic/magical cults, and shown how they substantially contributed to the diabolised stereotype of the witches' sabbath. Ronald Hutton has probably been the most vocal historian arguing a lack of precedents for Wicca, but then, his is a very ideosynchratic view, and he takes a number of extreme positions rather distant from usual academic consensus in the fields of witchcraft history, pagan antiquity, pagan survivals into the Christian period, and the history of hermeticism and ceremonial magic.
Of course this is hardly of vital importance to most Wiccans, since we are not even attempting historical reconstruction. We simply commune with our Gods by our traditional methods or whatever way works best. I understand that in reconstructionism there is the concept of "gnosis" and "shared personal gnosis" that helps validate the path you're going down; this kind of stuff is the very brick and mortar of Wicca, and any serious coven works with this constantly; it's what mysticism and magic are all about. Criticisms in terms of historical accuracy just don't make sense.
In short, Wicca is not synonymous with 'witchcraft', and is not the same as Neopaganism, and there is a world of difference between Wicca in its traditional form and the "Eclectic Wicca" that's become popular largely in the last 10 or 15 years. In the wider neopagan community we can find plenty of examples of embarrassing ideas, cultural misappropriation and the like, but to use these to snipe at Wicca is hardly reasonable. In fact I don't know why there's any sniping at Wicca at all, since we're not trying to tell the Reconstructionists how to conduct their religion. We wouldn't presume. I think what the article should do rather than emphasise this kind of ankle-biting is to simply make clear what the differences are between HPR and other popular forms of (neo)paganism — don't single out Wicca (we're just as unhappy with the crass popular views of neopaganism as you are), and don't make it a complaint. Fuzzypeg ★ 00:48, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
I am disputing the sentence, "Key to most ethical systems is the idea of kharis, or the reciprocity between humanity and the Gods, between individuals, and among community members." Kharis translates to favor or divine reward, which was believed dependant on reciprocity, but is not the concept of reciprocity. It is factually incorrect. -- 151.201.149.209 ( talk) 00:12, 5 October 2008 (UTC)
Made a clarification of charis (kharis)by giving the related internal links. The word really does not convey the concept of reciprocity - but... ( Eidimon ( talk) 19:25, 19 October 2008 (UTC))
I believe that the text bellow should be included to preserve the balance in the article:
It should be noted that this recent use of the term Hellenismos, for the ancient Greek religion or its modern reconstucted forms by some of its adherents today, it is questioned or even disputed as abusive by leading authorities on Greek Language and today's Greek society in general (as "Hellenismos" has a much broader meaning without religious connotations: to be Greek or Greekness). ( Eidimon ( talk) 20:55, 17 October 2008 (UTC))
And this is relevant in what way? If Hellenists (as in worshippers of the 12 gods) wish to call themselves this, then these 'leading authorities' are just going to have to cop it. And there is no need for balance in this article; if thats the case please allow me to go to the page on Christianity and state that it is a Middle Eastern Death Cult according to many Pagans. Not interested? Didn't think so. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.131.210.26 ( talk) 15:27, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
"Ἀρεταὶ δὲ λόγου εἰσὶ πέντε, Ἑλληνισμός, σαφήνεια, συντομία, πρέπον, κατασκευή. Ἑλληνισμὸς μὲν οὖν ἐστι φράσις ἀδιάπτωτος ἐν τῇ...." There are five excellences of speech—pure Greek, lucidity, conciseness, appropriateness, distinction. By good Greek is meant language faultless in point... In my view, pagans have taken a Greek word of crucial importance to Greek identity and appropriated it for self-legitimization. This matter needs to be resolved. KLEOPATROS7 ( talk) 22:26, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
Is there a universal Hellenismos symbol? I wrote Portal:Hellenismos and added it and Portal:Heathenism to Portal:Wicca's 'related portals,' since Wicas may want to know about other modern paganism (though I did not put portal:Wicca in the reconstructionist ones for obvious reasons.) I am asking about symbols because someone put a picture of Zeus for portal:Hellenismos on portal:Wicca. While he, or Hestia, may be a most important symbol of Dodecatheism, perhaps he is not as much for Hellenismos as a whole, since I have read many of the ancient Greek cults were separate until mythology related them. I was also reading online about possible symbols, and people recommended the wreath, and the vergina sun. Maybe there is no specific main symbol that does not refer to a specific deity. Do you think the portal should have one (or a combination) of these two symbols I mentioned, or is the bust of Zeus fine? (which for now I added in the religion portal)-- Dchmelik ( talk) 05:19, 25 December 2011 (UTC)
This statement doesn't hold water: " [...] there is little academic material to suggest that [magic] was used widely in ancient religion." Especially given that the citation is not to any sort of scholarly work, but to a Neopagan's personal theological reflection. Work like that by Christopher Faraone (see this) speaks definitively that magic (a problematic category, sure, but setting that aside) WAS practiced in ancient Greece. I find that the sentiment that magic was not practiced in ancient Greece a stance of the school of thought associated particularly with Timothy Jay Alexander and hellenismos.us. Needs attention. 128.135.96.194 ( talk) 23:08, 5 January 2012 (UTC)
This article does not follow guidelines for external links. The external link section appears to be serving as a directory of online resources which is not an encyclopedic function. Joja lozzo 02:11, 22 November 2012 (UTC)
As the relevant article needs some work, I have been bold and started with a redirect. The reasons are numerous.
First, there clearly needs to be greater consistency within Wikipedia among the related articles. For example, the corresponding portal is already called the "Hellenismos" portal.
Secondly, upon some brief researching, the term Hellenismos would seem to have precedence over Hellenism when referring to the modern worship of the Greek Gods. There are other terms for such worship, (all of which are relatively modern as the Ancient Greeks used none of them) but Hellenismos is more often used than Hellenism. The most prominent books and websites of the religion bear this out. With similar research, the term Hellenism is shown to be used mainly in reference to a historical period.
Thirdly, the term Hellenismos would appear to have no popular usage outside the context of a modern worship of the ancient Greek Gods. Even limiting a discussion of the term Hellenism to Wikipedia pages, one quickly finds a disambiguation page with approximately 10 linked articles. And again, most of these pages/articles concern a certain period of history and different aspects of that period.
The main page for just about every religion here seems to be devoted to information on that religion, with related articles branching out from there. I see no problem with the religion of the Ancient Greeks being described as a Hellenistic religion, as that was the culture that they were living in. But modern practitioners of Hellenismos do not necessarily have any ethnic or cultural connection to the Greeks of today.
Obviously, there is no unquestionably clear choice. Hellenismos or Greek polytheistic reconstructionism / Greek Paganism is a relatively new religious movement, with a verifiable origin going back about 20 to 30 years. So I'm willing to hash out the issue but there was apparently no consensus decision in the first place when the original article was redirected from Hellenismos. Reigndog ( talk) 00:00, 12 June 2014 (UTC)
"Hellenism" is a centuries old term and it is used in scholarly books. It was coined by emperor Julian (of course, as he spoke Latin it was surely "Hellenismus", and when speaking in Greek "Hellenismos"; and has been rendered "Hellenism" in English in later centuries). Just search on Google Books and you'll find plenty of books on the subject; for example:
By contrast, "Hellenismos" and "Hellenic Polytheistic Reconstructionism" are used on American "pagan" blogs by American people who know little or nothing at all about Greek religion: they aren't an academic or scientific terminology.-- 82.48.10.211 ( talk) 18:45, 19 June 2014 (UTC)
--- Hellenism is the same thing as Hellenismos ontologically. They are two English renditions of the Greek "ελληνισμόσ" - The confusion is the result of English speakers trying to form a term to express ancient Greek religion in an ISM of some kind. I am more than happy to help sort this out and update the wikipage with proper sources. We need to figure out how to put everything into order so it all makes sense. English "Hellenism" comes from the German "Hellenismus". Hellenismos is an English transliteration of "ελληνισμόσ". They both refer to the one and same thing "ελληνισμόσ". — Preceding unsigned comment added by KLEOPATROS7 ( talk • contribs) 13:44, 22 February 2021 (UTC)
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Πριν από πολλούς ή λίγους αιώνες, ανάλογα με την Ιστορία του κάθε έθνους μας, ο επιθετικός Μονοθεϊσμός κατέστρεψε τις Παραδόσεις μας, τις εθνικές μας ταυτότητες, τις Θρησκείες μας, και σε πολλές περιπτώσεις μας μετέτρεψε σε μειοψηφίες μέσα στις ίδιες μας τις πατρίδες. Πάρα πολλοί από εμάς, αγωνιζόμαστε. Όμως θέλει μεγάλη προσοχή στην στρατηγική αυτού του αγώνα που κάνουμε. Όποιος αγωνίζεται, λανθασμένα, για να μην εξαφανιστεί, και μόνο γι' αυτό, για να μην εξαφανιστεί, με την πρώτη ήττα θα εξαφανιστεί. Αντίθετα, όσοι αγωνίζονται για να πάρουν πίσω αυτά που τους ανήκουν, να πάρουν πίσω αυτά που τους έκλεψαν, να πάρουν πίσω την εθνική τους ταυτότητα, τον προγονικό τους Πολιτισμό, την εθνική τους Θρησκεία, το αξιακό σύστημα του έθνους στο οποίο ανήκουν, δεν πρόκειται ποτέ, ποτέ μα ποτέ, να ηττηθούν πραγματικά, άσχετα από το πόσες πιθανές εφήμερες, πρόσκαιρες ήττες θα υποστούν απέναντι στον πολύ ισχυρότερο εχθρό. Το μήνυμα είναι πως δεν αγωνιζόμαστε για να μην εξαφανιστούμε. Αγωνιζόμαστε για να πάρουμε πίσω όλα αυτά που μας ανήκαν. Και εξακολουθούν να μας ανήκουν. Και θα τα πάρουμε πίσω. Με την βοήθεια των εθνικών μας Θεών.
69.27.201.250 ( talk) 15:56, 13 March 2017 (UTC)by mike smith== the voice of Supreme Council of Ethnikoi Hellenes ==
Πριν από πολλούς ή λίγους αιώνες, ανάλογα με την Ιστορία του κάθε έθνους μας, ο επιθετικός Μονοθεϊσμός κατέστρεψε τις Παραδόσεις μας, τις εθνικές μας ταυτότητες, τις Θρησκείες μας, και σε πολλές περιπτώσεις μας μετέτρεψε σε μειοψηφίες μέσα στις ίδιες μας τις πατρίδες. Πάρα πολλοί από εμάς, αγωνιζόμαστε. Όμως θέλει μεγάλη προσοχή στην στρατηγική αυτού του αγώνα που κάνουμε. Όποιος αγωνίζεται, λανθασμένα, για να μην εξαφανιστεί, και μόνο γι' αυτό, για να μην εξαφανιστεί, με την πρώτη ήττα θα εξαφανιστεί. Αντίθετα, όσοι αγωνίζονται για να πάρουν πίσω αυτά που τους ανήκουν, να πάρουν πίσω αυτά που τους έκλεψαν, να πάρουν πίσω την εθνική τους ταυτότητα, τον προγονικό τους Πολιτισμό, την εθνική τους Θρησκεία, το αξιακό σύστημα του έθνους στο οποίο ανήκουν, δεν πρόκειται ποτέ, ποτέ μα ποτέ, να ηττηθούν πραγματικά, άσχετα από το πόσες πιθανές εφήμερες, πρόσκαιρες ήττες θα υποστούν απέναντι στον πολύ ισχυρότερο εχθρό. Το μήνυμα είναι πως δεν αγωνιζόμαστε για να μην εξαφανιστούμε. Αγωνιζόμαστε για να πάρουμε πίσω όλα αυτά που μας ανήκαν. Και εξακολουθούν να μας ανήκουν. Και θα τα πάρουμε πίσω. Με την βοήθεια των εθνικών μας Θεών. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.27.201.250 ( talk) 15:53, 13 March 2017 (UTC)
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Hello,just want to ask if you can add the information about the recognision of 'Hellenismos' or the revived form of the Ancient Greek religion made by the Greek state? https://m.facebook.com/HellenicTradition/posts/1266907963377401 Kp4816 ( talk) 05:55, 14 April 2017 (UTC)
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YSEE is a racist, homophobic nationalist group. Ethan6809 ( talk) 03:49, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
The title of this article is Hellenism (Modern Religion), revised from Hellenism (Religion) (to disambiguate from ancient Greek religion). Therefore, the subject matter should be first and foremost the religion. While it is important (for disambiguation) to mention that "Hellenism" can also be used to refer to the totality of Greek culture, this should not be in the opening sentence of the article. There are already articles about Greek culture, including Culture of Greece. If you wish, you may create a new article called Hellenism (Greek Culture) specifically for this subject. Nath.king93 ( talk) 05:16, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
Please show me another culture -ism that separates their Wikipedia articles in such as way? Is there Hinduism (modern religion) v Hinduism (Hindu culture) and so on? It is very obvious that Hellenism is being defined and distorted by non-Greek pagans in a blatant act of appropriation. Hellenism is not a religion. Religions based on Hellenism have names to them. Two examples are Hellenic Ethnic Religion and Ancient Hellenic Religion, both are legal bodies in Greece. This article is very misleading. Kleopatros7 ( talk) 03:03, 15 July 2021 (UTC)
The term "Hinduism" has never been used to refer to the entirety of Hindu culture. In fact, most countries don't use an -ism for the entirety of their current and/or historical culture which is why you don't have terms like "Hinduism" or "Indianism" or even "Mexicanism". Considering that Hellenism as a cultural movement, expanded past the bounds of Modern Greece, there is no sense in your claim of "appropriation" and it actually comes across as rather chauvinistic. Also, if you have a problem with the English article using 'Hellenism', maybe take a look at the Greek article where it is also used. 210.1.210.3 ( talk) 04:55, 3 August 2021 (UTC)
I propose the name of this page be changed to "Modern Greek Religions" - given the usage of Hellenism in the Angloshphere is controversial. KLEOPATROS7 ( talk) 22:40, 14 July 2021 (UTC)
I can get behind the name being changed to "Modern Hellenic Religion", since there is not a single name in use at the moment. Tell me what you think KLEOPATROS7. Hieros-pallas ( talk) 11:09, 26 August 2021 (UTC)
The official historical name is "Hellenism" not "Random Greek religions", you don't seem to understand that Ancient religions aren't the same as Abrahamic medieval-modern churches. There is no central dogma but common cultural ties, the different Greek Poleis had their own variations of myths and worshipped the same gods in different ways (for example, Athenians worshipped Athena more prominently than say, Ares or Poseidon, people of Delphi worshipped Apollo more than Athena, etc. each with their own rituals and costumes). And this also changed with the different eras (look at the differences between Roman Hellenism and Mycenaean one). In a similar way, modern reconstructionism doesn't have a central Hellenic Church where an Hellenic Pope commands what people should believe, but rather every person, cult, nation adopts their own traditions and ways. It could be chaotic for our Western Christian understanding but not for them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 45.182.127.185 ( talk) 12:48, 17 April 2023 (UTC)
As a neutral party I have noticed edit-warring on this topic. Im initiating discussions of the Appropriation of Hellenism second on the article.
The section is correctly cited and well written, a dispute about a single citation does not constitute the removal of a whole section off the article.
Please discuss and find corrective action, not distructive action. TagKnife ( talk) 04:41, 27 January 2024 (UTC)