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Verita, your description of Pipes as right-wing is a personal POV, though one that you share with others. He does not regard himself as right-wing, and neither do some others, especially those who think of "right-wing" as being old-fashioned blood & soil nativism, as opposed to the Enlightenment liberalism that Pipes says he supports and which is sometimes regarded as left-wing. Hence, "right-wing" is not acceptable. If you want to find a mainstream source who describes him as right-wing, then do so and attribute that characterization to them, rather than positing it as simple reality.
And "attack" is also unacceptable. Debate does not have to take place in an academic setting to count as debate rather than attack. You and I are not having this discussion in an academic setting, and yet no one would say that we are "attacking" each other. Pipes strongly disagrees with Dabashi's positions, just as Dabashi strongly disagrees with Pipes's. That is not a "fight," and neither is attacking the other. Again, if you can find a mainstream source that describes Pipes's criticisms of Dabashi as an "attack," then attribute it to them.
In the meantime, until sources and attribution are provided, I'm changing it back.
Finally, the "scholarly world" does not as one support Dabashi. Some do, others don't. It is unencyclopedic and inaccurate to assert otherwise. Babajobu 19:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Just added Marx and Freud to the influence box. His recent works, more specifically Shiism: A Religion of Protest is a rethinking of Shiism in light of Freud. Karl Montague ( talk) 05:34, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Reproducing book blurbs as captions in wildly POV and simply not done in Wikipedia. If you insist on keeping evaluations of books in the captions, one of the captions should be from a critical review rather than a laudatory one. And I'm sorry, but saying Dabashi is a "high-profile academic..."like Edward Said or Noam Chomsky" is wildly POV. He has nowhere near the profile of either of those men. Babajobu 20:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
This article is rapidly turning into a breathlessly laudatory fanpage for Dabashi; moreover, the main fan, User:Verita, is apparently unwilling to use the talk page. I don't have time to keep the article NPOV; if anyone else does, please do so. Babajobu 20:57, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
didn't know how to use this talk page! my objective is not to make this page a "breathlessly laudatory fanpage". i am just gathering information, and followed your advice on not having too many book covers. i have compromised with you, taking your suggestions into consideration. i am happy to talk and will endeavour like yourself to keep the page *encyclopedic*. Verita x.
I pulled up this article because I was concerned it would focus entirely on the recent controversy at Columbia in which some Jewish students claimed Prof. Dabashi and his collegues, Joseph Massad and George Saliba, were intimidating students who supported Israel's policies toward its neighboring countries and the Palestinians. The article's extensive discussion of Prof. Dabashi's work and views pleases me greatly (though I think it strays far from NPOV in places) but, as much as I hate to say it, the article's complete silence about the Columbia controversy is a serious flaw. People threw a lot of mud at him and, as far as I'm concerned, essentially none of it stuck. But regardless of one's position on the controversy and the allegations against Prof. Dabashi, it was a major part of an important nation-wide discussion about free speech, academic freedom and campus politics. The article should -- without bias toward any participants - discuss the controversy at least at a basic level.
The origin of the so-called “Columbia controversy” is a maliciously fabricated so-called documentary that a Zionist propaganda outlet based in Boston, entirely unrelated to Columbia University has made. Based on this very so-called documentary, there is absolutely not a single allegation brought by any student from Columbia or anywhere else in the world against Dabashi. Allegations are brought against George Saliba and Joseph Massad (allegations that have been by and large dismissed) by three successive investigative bodies within Columbia itself (see all the sources by New York Times and Columbia News). Even in this document which is the origin of everything else that has been produced around the so-called “Columbia controversy” there is no single student who says anything against Dabashi so far as his conduct in his classroom or at Columbia is concerned.
The charge that has been brought against Dabashi in this “documentary” are objections that their malicious and vicious distortion (deliberate distortion) of a passage in an article that he published in a weekly magazine in Al-Ahram. In this passage, Dabashi describes the physical and psychological consequences on individual citizens living in a militarized state. Not a single time in this article does Dabashi even use the word, “the Jews.” In the passage that Zionist propaganda outlet in Boston has manufactured, they deliberately take the words “these people” out of Dabashi’s sentence and maliciously insert the words “the Jews”. As a result the very assumption brought by some that Dabashi is “accused” of misconduct is entirely false and in fact a continuation of slander. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]. [8].
Verita
You say: "Well, if that is correct." What on earth do you mean by that? You don't seem to see the various sources from New York Times and all the other places? Excuse my saying so, but are you blind?...Of course it is correct! My dear, it would only be people like you who want to “look for some information on this affair" (this so-called "affair" of yours is an entirely fabricated and malicious lie made in heavens so that bigots can refer to it in order to distort honorable people's reputations). I warn you: if you write anything slanderous, you will be held accountable for libel. And don’t try your cheap condescending tactics here. For all I care about, you could be a right-wing PR agent here...who else would be spending all his time trying to demean progressive people’s entries.
User:Verita, 11 October 2006.
This current revert war is a ridiculous attempt at censorship. Verita - you are right that Prof Dabashi did not mention Jews. He was talking about Israelis. But do you seriously think he was referring to Arab Israelis? In any case, I put the controversial quote back in. Please stop deleting it. I'm sorry that you (and a few others) don't like it, but it is relevant information. Prof Dabashi doesn't deny making it either. If you think it needs proper context, then provide that context. But stop erasing it off the page. If it's really as innocent as you claim, then there should be no problem with people reading it, right? Censorship is not the way to go.
BuboTitan 11:10, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Just a note, because this gets reverted all the time: double categories and non-person categories cannot be permitted. What remains, however, are still many categories as Professor Dabashi is active in many fields. Please write here if you have specific concerns about a category. gidonb 08:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
This article contains wording that
promotes the subject in a subjective manner without imparting real information. |
I was asked to have an outside look. I approach this in the spirit of doing him and his views full justice -- with respect to both the opinions of his supporters and opponents. It does not benefit a subject in the light of intelligent readers for his article to adopt an uncritical style. the greater the man and the work, the less need for adjectives of praise. If a person is a highly respected scholar, the description of his work and its reception in the article will show it. If he is controversial politically, the article will show that. Ny concept of an encyclopedic style is the the classic advice of Strunk and White, "omit needless words" -- in my own WP formulation, "omit needless words, especially adjectives." There is a style appropriate for book jackets, and a style appropriate for works of reference. I'd urge some copy-editing, and if nobody else does it, I will. I am also startled to see no mention in the article of the controversies in NYC. I have my own view of them, which is not anyone's business, but I have not followed them with specialised attention & am therefore not the best person to write this part. a narrative supported by no-partisan newspaper articles should be possible. thee is no need to draw a moral, just state what happened and --very briefly--what was said. I'd suggest a relatively neutral heading, such as "Career at Columbia". There is nothing too difficult to describe objectively, if people will be content with that and not try to indicate also whether his views and actions are right or wrong. The reader will judge that for himself. DGG ( talk) 18:12, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, this is what happens when you have an edit war. And now the page was protected after Verita committed another act of vandalism. Hey Verita - why don't you explain why you are constantly trying to censor the page? Prof Dabashi did write that quote for the Al-Ahram weekly (he does not deny it), and he was criticized for it. Why do you believe no one else should know about this? Wiki is not your personal space. If you think the quote was mistranslated, provide a better translation. If you think it was taken out of context, then provide the full context. But instead of doing either of those things, you keep deleting it - which to me is pretty good proof that you don't think you can explain it. For everyone else, here is the controversial quote, since it keeps disappearing from the article. You can judge for yourselves: Professor Dabashi has been criticized for the following quote which was part of an article he wrote for the Egyptian Al-Ahram Weekly. Referring to Israelis, he wrote: “Half a century of systematic maiming and murdering of another people has left its deep marks on the faces of these people. The way they talk, the way they walk, the way they handle objects, the way they greet each other, the way they look at the world. There is an endemic prevarication to this machinery, a vulgarity of character that is bone-deep and structural to the skeletal vertebrae of its culture." [9] BuboTitan 14:10, 28 October 2007 (UTC).
If you are suggesting he's a racist, it would be bizarre, because he frequently collaborates with Jews and Jewish scholars. He's certainly critical of Israel. I don't think that was a surprise. The only people that tried to make that quote a big deal were Campus Watch (McCarthyite censorship site) and "Indoctrinate U." Perhaps it could be included, but in the grand scheme of things, the 'criticism' really made no permanent marks. Titling it as "Anti-Semitic" is reaching, at best. If you read the entirely article, I think it would be quite clear he was criticizing the state, not the people. He made this comment while describing the airport.. LOL. - 68.43.58.42 20:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
As anyone who has been reading this page knows, Verita ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Verita) has been on a personal crusade to eliminate any info about Prof Dabashi that he doesn't like. Verita, the cited material is not "slander", since Prof Dabashi doesn't deny making the remarks. Also, the remarks were criticised. Once again, If you think the quote was mistranslated, provide a better translation. If you think it was taken out of context, then provide the full context. But instead of doing either of those things, you keep deleting it - which to me is pretty good proof that you don't think you can explain it. Frankly I am at the limit of my patience and if you change the page one more time without at least providing an explantion on the talk page then I'm going to request page protection and mediation from Wiki. BuboTitan ( talk) 17:44, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Once again, if you think the quote was wrongly interpreted, then SAY SO IN THE ARTICLE! Is that so hard? He did make those statements. Nowhere does Prof Dabashi deny them. I am requesting mediation. BuboTitan ( talk) 20:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I have formally requested page protection (not a big surprise, since it's been protected before). We are well beyond the three revert rule. Moreover, Verita, I have placed an alert on the Wikiquette page concerning your behavior. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts). If we can find a compromise, that would be great. Otherwise, outside moderators will have to make the call. BuboTitan ( talk) 14:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
You don't seem to READ, do you? Since last year this whole issue of slanderous "accusation" has been dealt with (see above and below)! You are determined to portray a decent scholar as a racist and no matter how many legit sources are brought to your attention, you chose to close your eyes and mind...I have been the one who asked for protection on this page, and secondly you have been reported on ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts) dear friend. You seem so concerned about Wikiquette, what about starting to tell the truth and be a decent human being for starter? I will not compromise on adding an article under the premise that a decent and innocent man is a racist. You will not get that from me!
BuboTitan ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BuboTitan) is only out here to slander Dabashi and his task on wikipedia only seems to leave the stench of a poorly articulated pro-war, pro-torture, Zionist (by the way THAT is racism--belonging to something based on your blood) agenda. Dabashi HAS strongly objected to the false allegations of anti-Semitism and many have come to his defense incl. the Jewish Week of New York (see below). The charge of anti-Semitism is a very very serious one--one of racism and hatred towards a whole people! If BuboTitan really cared he would do some research before wasting his time here! In the Al-Ahram passage, Dabashi describes the physical and psychological consequences on individual citizens living in a militarized state. Not a single time in this article does Dabashi even use the word, “the Jews.” The very assumption brought by some that Dabashi is “accused” is entirely false and in fact a continuation of slander. The man has written over 17 books over 30 years and here comes a good-for-nothing BuboTitan and gives himself the right to slander a distinguished scholar. It is truly pathetic and I do sincerely hope that he DOES reach his “limit” of patience and gets out of here! Not that one can reason with people like him, but just for the record see all these outlets defending Dabashi: [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Verita ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi, my comments on the edit war:
Could I suggest that you don't continue the edit war, and instead discuss how a compromise can be reached? Thanks! Addhoc ( talk) 15:33, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I also fully support the mediation by Addhoc--thank you! What has been problematic here is the omission of positive contributions and an insistence on portraying Dabashi as an anti-Semite, which is not only factual but slanderous and malicious--I would be happy to help keep the page as accurate as possible and protect it from vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Verita ( talk • contribs) 15:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
I've expanded the controversy section slightly, and reintroduced some of your content. Regarding your other comments, the biography of living persons policy says the the following about criticism:
“ | The views of critics should be represented if they are relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to side with the critics; rather, it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone. Be careful not to give a disproportionate amount of space to critics, to avoid the effect of
representing a minority view as if it were the majority one. If the criticism represents the views of a tiny minority, it has no place in the article. Care must be taken with
article structure to ensure the overall presentation is broadly neutral, in particular, header structure for regions or subsections should reflect important areas to the subject's notability.
Content should be sourced to reliable sources and should be about the subject of the article specifically. Beware of claims that rely on guilt by association. Editors should also be on the lookout for biased or malicious content about living persons. If someone appears to be pushing an agenda or a biased point of view, insist on reliable third-party published sources and a clear demonstration of relevance to the person's notability. |
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My concern is that your version appears to side with the critics. Addhoc ( talk) 15:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Dabashi is a national figure not because of his writing on film - which is dense and jargon-filled to the ppoint of incomprehensibility - but because he gets up ans calls the President of Columbia University ( Lee Bollinger - a good guy and a champion of freedom of speech and not a member of the Ku Klux Lkan) a "white supremacist." then he called Azar Nafisi, the wonderful writer who wrote "Reading Lolita in Tehran" a colonial agent comparable to "the most pestiferous colonial projects of the British in India," and said "To me there is no difference between Lynndie England and Azar Nafisi."
There's more , a lot more, like this. the guy is as controversial as hell. But , try and put any of this relevent, heavily sourced material up, and Addhoc expunges the material.
This article needs supervision. Come to that, so does Hamid Dabashi. Imagine calling Lee Bollinger a white supremicist. But I'll settle for some supervision of this page. Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 20:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)Post-colonial truthsquad
I am eager and willing to have a rational discussion about what to do about this page. There are two problems: 1) Where to put Dabashi's controversial views. The things he says are, bizarre. But if a list of his more outrageous quotes doesn't work, we can do something else. 2) the larger problem is that he has fans and defenders who immediately delete anything that makes him look bad
so, balancing the pagee is only the first problem, how do we keep it balanced? meanwhile, I'm putting the quotes back. Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 00:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Post-modern truthsquad
What is a sandbox? and what does 1RR connote? Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 00:49, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Post-modern truthsquad
I am putting up a news section, an attempt to give some information on the fact that this man is a loose-cannon and politically nasty. Sorry, but he's hard to liver, er, work with. Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 02:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Post-modern truthsquad
These sections are problematic in that they describe Dabashi in his own words. I might have had fun, too, writing my own Wikipedia page and quoting my own views, books and articles to do it. Alas, the page was posted by others (readers? students?) who quote form third parties discussing my work. I did have the impression that Wikipedia was supposed to work that way, That you had to find a source other thatn the subject of the article to quote on the work the subject of the article does. Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 02:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Post-modern truthsquad
Look, a lot of major intellectual figures were/are flaming anti-Semites. T.S. Elliot, Martin Luther the list is long and distinguished. We don't reject the good work that these important intellectual figures did on the grounds that they were anti-Semitic. Insteead we put a small section on their Wikipedia pages documenting their hatred of Jews. I suggest that we use the T.S. Elliot page as a model and cconstruct a modest section on Dabashi's well-documented anti-Semitism. Thomas Babbington ( talk) 19:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Thomas Babbington
Addendum. I just looked at the T.S. Elliot page. The anti-Semitism section there is far too long to serve as a model. I had in mind a brief paragraph. But I firmly believe that such a paragraph is essential. Without it , we lose credibility. Thomas Babbington ( talk) 19:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Thomas Babbington
Addhoc, the article covers, perhaps at too-great length, an incident at Columbia. The committee you refer to was never charged with determining whether Dabashi or anyone else had made anti-Semitic statements. The charge was very narrow. The committee was only to investigate whether professors had harrassed students registered in courses they were teaching while inside the classroom. The instructions excluded published writing, speeches, etc. So the allegations that were without foundation (except Massad, who was found to have acted unprofessionaly and formally reprimanded) were of unprofessional behavior inside the classroom which, as far as I recall, no one ever charged Dabashi with. Just fyi Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 21:31, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Post-modern truthsquad
All the above are now blocked as abusive sockpuppets. Except for Addhoc, of course. -- Relata refero ( disp.) 20:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
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The vast majority of this article currently consists of the "controversy" section which is pretty much overinflated with his critical views of Israel, giving them undue weight. This kind of zealotry really is something, both from the right and left wing types here on WP. Furthermore, the article as it currently stands is grossly in violation of WP:BLP. This is more an attack article than anything. IranianGuy ( talk) 05:50, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Include his new book -- Brown Skin White Masks in his bibliography. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.58.132.52 ( talk) 00:00, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
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The issue of unreliable sources has been brought up at WP:BLPN. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 01:35, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Hyperionsteel: What about Dabashi was being misrepresented in a way that is corrected by the addition of uncited, undue weight material? And if it's a misrepresentation now, how was it not a misrepresentation at the time you were trying to edit-war it into the article, since nothing was changed? Give it a rest. The poor sources you were advocating have been removed, uninvolved users have pointed out the undue weight issue, and you just keep crusading. Stop adding uncited material, stop misrepresenting the subjects writings, and stop inflating the weight of this non-incident. I'm pinging you to give you the chance to revert your own disruptive edit. I would also recommend that you find interests outside of this topic area, because you've repeatedly demonstrated that you are not here to build an encyclopedia. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 19:29, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
@ Roscelese: Quite the temper you have there, Roscelese. You failed twice to remove this material at BLPN, so now you are resorting to ranting at me because you can't get your way. I'll try to address your new grievances one at a time:
@ Coretheapple: @ GraniteSand: You two mentioned at BLPN that the section was being given undue weight. Do you believe it's important to retain an assembly of quotations from a single source for the stated purpose of proving how "hysterical" the BLP subject is? Also @ NorthBySouthBaranof: from BLPN. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 04:27, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
And now, it is time to discuss the section on this page, rather than edit-warring over it. I suggest this is a much better idea than blocking anyone. Black Kite (talk) 00:09, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
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From Bashi's page, it seems that they are no longer married. The link on here to his personal website, corroborating their marriage, is broken and his personal website does not mention Bashi. Illang ( talk) 19:24, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Her full name is Golbarg Bashi. Sorry. Illang ( talk) 19:27, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
The source is depreciated per RFC: Electronic Intifada, can we consider it to be aboutself? I would argue for a removal (including the sources content), but am open to alternatives. FortunateSons ( talk) 15:23, 23 January 2024 (UTC)
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Verita, your description of Pipes as right-wing is a personal POV, though one that you share with others. He does not regard himself as right-wing, and neither do some others, especially those who think of "right-wing" as being old-fashioned blood & soil nativism, as opposed to the Enlightenment liberalism that Pipes says he supports and which is sometimes regarded as left-wing. Hence, "right-wing" is not acceptable. If you want to find a mainstream source who describes him as right-wing, then do so and attribute that characterization to them, rather than positing it as simple reality.
And "attack" is also unacceptable. Debate does not have to take place in an academic setting to count as debate rather than attack. You and I are not having this discussion in an academic setting, and yet no one would say that we are "attacking" each other. Pipes strongly disagrees with Dabashi's positions, just as Dabashi strongly disagrees with Pipes's. That is not a "fight," and neither is attacking the other. Again, if you can find a mainstream source that describes Pipes's criticisms of Dabashi as an "attack," then attribute it to them.
In the meantime, until sources and attribution are provided, I'm changing it back.
Finally, the "scholarly world" does not as one support Dabashi. Some do, others don't. It is unencyclopedic and inaccurate to assert otherwise. Babajobu 19:50, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Just added Marx and Freud to the influence box. His recent works, more specifically Shiism: A Religion of Protest is a rethinking of Shiism in light of Freud. Karl Montague ( talk) 05:34, 2 May 2011 (UTC)
Reproducing book blurbs as captions in wildly POV and simply not done in Wikipedia. If you insist on keeping evaluations of books in the captions, one of the captions should be from a critical review rather than a laudatory one. And I'm sorry, but saying Dabashi is a "high-profile academic..."like Edward Said or Noam Chomsky" is wildly POV. He has nowhere near the profile of either of those men. Babajobu 20:03, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
This article is rapidly turning into a breathlessly laudatory fanpage for Dabashi; moreover, the main fan, User:Verita, is apparently unwilling to use the talk page. I don't have time to keep the article NPOV; if anyone else does, please do so. Babajobu 20:57, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
didn't know how to use this talk page! my objective is not to make this page a "breathlessly laudatory fanpage". i am just gathering information, and followed your advice on not having too many book covers. i have compromised with you, taking your suggestions into consideration. i am happy to talk and will endeavour like yourself to keep the page *encyclopedic*. Verita x.
I pulled up this article because I was concerned it would focus entirely on the recent controversy at Columbia in which some Jewish students claimed Prof. Dabashi and his collegues, Joseph Massad and George Saliba, were intimidating students who supported Israel's policies toward its neighboring countries and the Palestinians. The article's extensive discussion of Prof. Dabashi's work and views pleases me greatly (though I think it strays far from NPOV in places) but, as much as I hate to say it, the article's complete silence about the Columbia controversy is a serious flaw. People threw a lot of mud at him and, as far as I'm concerned, essentially none of it stuck. But regardless of one's position on the controversy and the allegations against Prof. Dabashi, it was a major part of an important nation-wide discussion about free speech, academic freedom and campus politics. The article should -- without bias toward any participants - discuss the controversy at least at a basic level.
The origin of the so-called “Columbia controversy” is a maliciously fabricated so-called documentary that a Zionist propaganda outlet based in Boston, entirely unrelated to Columbia University has made. Based on this very so-called documentary, there is absolutely not a single allegation brought by any student from Columbia or anywhere else in the world against Dabashi. Allegations are brought against George Saliba and Joseph Massad (allegations that have been by and large dismissed) by three successive investigative bodies within Columbia itself (see all the sources by New York Times and Columbia News). Even in this document which is the origin of everything else that has been produced around the so-called “Columbia controversy” there is no single student who says anything against Dabashi so far as his conduct in his classroom or at Columbia is concerned.
The charge that has been brought against Dabashi in this “documentary” are objections that their malicious and vicious distortion (deliberate distortion) of a passage in an article that he published in a weekly magazine in Al-Ahram. In this passage, Dabashi describes the physical and psychological consequences on individual citizens living in a militarized state. Not a single time in this article does Dabashi even use the word, “the Jews.” In the passage that Zionist propaganda outlet in Boston has manufactured, they deliberately take the words “these people” out of Dabashi’s sentence and maliciously insert the words “the Jews”. As a result the very assumption brought by some that Dabashi is “accused” of misconduct is entirely false and in fact a continuation of slander. [1], [2], [3], [4], [5], [6], [7]. [8].
Verita
You say: "Well, if that is correct." What on earth do you mean by that? You don't seem to see the various sources from New York Times and all the other places? Excuse my saying so, but are you blind?...Of course it is correct! My dear, it would only be people like you who want to “look for some information on this affair" (this so-called "affair" of yours is an entirely fabricated and malicious lie made in heavens so that bigots can refer to it in order to distort honorable people's reputations). I warn you: if you write anything slanderous, you will be held accountable for libel. And don’t try your cheap condescending tactics here. For all I care about, you could be a right-wing PR agent here...who else would be spending all his time trying to demean progressive people’s entries.
User:Verita, 11 October 2006.
This current revert war is a ridiculous attempt at censorship. Verita - you are right that Prof Dabashi did not mention Jews. He was talking about Israelis. But do you seriously think he was referring to Arab Israelis? In any case, I put the controversial quote back in. Please stop deleting it. I'm sorry that you (and a few others) don't like it, but it is relevant information. Prof Dabashi doesn't deny making it either. If you think it needs proper context, then provide that context. But stop erasing it off the page. If it's really as innocent as you claim, then there should be no problem with people reading it, right? Censorship is not the way to go.
BuboTitan 11:10, 19 October 2007 (UTC)
Just a note, because this gets reverted all the time: double categories and non-person categories cannot be permitted. What remains, however, are still many categories as Professor Dabashi is active in many fields. Please write here if you have specific concerns about a category. gidonb 08:16, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
This article contains wording that
promotes the subject in a subjective manner without imparting real information. |
I was asked to have an outside look. I approach this in the spirit of doing him and his views full justice -- with respect to both the opinions of his supporters and opponents. It does not benefit a subject in the light of intelligent readers for his article to adopt an uncritical style. the greater the man and the work, the less need for adjectives of praise. If a person is a highly respected scholar, the description of his work and its reception in the article will show it. If he is controversial politically, the article will show that. Ny concept of an encyclopedic style is the the classic advice of Strunk and White, "omit needless words" -- in my own WP formulation, "omit needless words, especially adjectives." There is a style appropriate for book jackets, and a style appropriate for works of reference. I'd urge some copy-editing, and if nobody else does it, I will. I am also startled to see no mention in the article of the controversies in NYC. I have my own view of them, which is not anyone's business, but I have not followed them with specialised attention & am therefore not the best person to write this part. a narrative supported by no-partisan newspaper articles should be possible. thee is no need to draw a moral, just state what happened and --very briefly--what was said. I'd suggest a relatively neutral heading, such as "Career at Columbia". There is nothing too difficult to describe objectively, if people will be content with that and not try to indicate also whether his views and actions are right or wrong. The reader will judge that for himself. DGG ( talk) 18:12, 26 August 2007 (UTC)
Well, this is what happens when you have an edit war. And now the page was protected after Verita committed another act of vandalism. Hey Verita - why don't you explain why you are constantly trying to censor the page? Prof Dabashi did write that quote for the Al-Ahram weekly (he does not deny it), and he was criticized for it. Why do you believe no one else should know about this? Wiki is not your personal space. If you think the quote was mistranslated, provide a better translation. If you think it was taken out of context, then provide the full context. But instead of doing either of those things, you keep deleting it - which to me is pretty good proof that you don't think you can explain it. For everyone else, here is the controversial quote, since it keeps disappearing from the article. You can judge for yourselves: Professor Dabashi has been criticized for the following quote which was part of an article he wrote for the Egyptian Al-Ahram Weekly. Referring to Israelis, he wrote: “Half a century of systematic maiming and murdering of another people has left its deep marks on the faces of these people. The way they talk, the way they walk, the way they handle objects, the way they greet each other, the way they look at the world. There is an endemic prevarication to this machinery, a vulgarity of character that is bone-deep and structural to the skeletal vertebrae of its culture." [9] BuboTitan 14:10, 28 October 2007 (UTC).
If you are suggesting he's a racist, it would be bizarre, because he frequently collaborates with Jews and Jewish scholars. He's certainly critical of Israel. I don't think that was a surprise. The only people that tried to make that quote a big deal were Campus Watch (McCarthyite censorship site) and "Indoctrinate U." Perhaps it could be included, but in the grand scheme of things, the 'criticism' really made no permanent marks. Titling it as "Anti-Semitic" is reaching, at best. If you read the entirely article, I think it would be quite clear he was criticizing the state, not the people. He made this comment while describing the airport.. LOL. - 68.43.58.42 20:44, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
As anyone who has been reading this page knows, Verita ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Verita) has been on a personal crusade to eliminate any info about Prof Dabashi that he doesn't like. Verita, the cited material is not "slander", since Prof Dabashi doesn't deny making the remarks. Also, the remarks were criticised. Once again, If you think the quote was mistranslated, provide a better translation. If you think it was taken out of context, then provide the full context. But instead of doing either of those things, you keep deleting it - which to me is pretty good proof that you don't think you can explain it. Frankly I am at the limit of my patience and if you change the page one more time without at least providing an explantion on the talk page then I'm going to request page protection and mediation from Wiki. BuboTitan ( talk) 17:44, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Once again, if you think the quote was wrongly interpreted, then SAY SO IN THE ARTICLE! Is that so hard? He did make those statements. Nowhere does Prof Dabashi deny them. I am requesting mediation. BuboTitan ( talk) 20:08, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I have formally requested page protection (not a big surprise, since it's been protected before). We are well beyond the three revert rule. Moreover, Verita, I have placed an alert on the Wikiquette page concerning your behavior. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts). If we can find a compromise, that would be great. Otherwise, outside moderators will have to make the call. BuboTitan ( talk) 14:40, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
You don't seem to READ, do you? Since last year this whole issue of slanderous "accusation" has been dealt with (see above and below)! You are determined to portray a decent scholar as a racist and no matter how many legit sources are brought to your attention, you chose to close your eyes and mind...I have been the one who asked for protection on this page, and secondly you have been reported on ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts) dear friend. You seem so concerned about Wikiquette, what about starting to tell the truth and be a decent human being for starter? I will not compromise on adding an article under the premise that a decent and innocent man is a racist. You will not get that from me!
BuboTitan ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/BuboTitan) is only out here to slander Dabashi and his task on wikipedia only seems to leave the stench of a poorly articulated pro-war, pro-torture, Zionist (by the way THAT is racism--belonging to something based on your blood) agenda. Dabashi HAS strongly objected to the false allegations of anti-Semitism and many have come to his defense incl. the Jewish Week of New York (see below). The charge of anti-Semitism is a very very serious one--one of racism and hatred towards a whole people! If BuboTitan really cared he would do some research before wasting his time here! In the Al-Ahram passage, Dabashi describes the physical and psychological consequences on individual citizens living in a militarized state. Not a single time in this article does Dabashi even use the word, “the Jews.” The very assumption brought by some that Dabashi is “accused” is entirely false and in fact a continuation of slander. The man has written over 17 books over 30 years and here comes a good-for-nothing BuboTitan and gives himself the right to slander a distinguished scholar. It is truly pathetic and I do sincerely hope that he DOES reach his “limit” of patience and gets out of here! Not that one can reason with people like him, but just for the record see all these outlets defending Dabashi: [10], [11], [12], [13], [14], [15], [16]. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Verita ( talk • contribs) 20:02, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
Hi, my comments on the edit war:
Could I suggest that you don't continue the edit war, and instead discuss how a compromise can be reached? Thanks! Addhoc ( talk) 15:33, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
I also fully support the mediation by Addhoc--thank you! What has been problematic here is the omission of positive contributions and an insistence on portraying Dabashi as an anti-Semite, which is not only factual but slanderous and malicious--I would be happy to help keep the page as accurate as possible and protect it from vandalism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Verita ( talk • contribs) 15:48, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
I've expanded the controversy section slightly, and reintroduced some of your content. Regarding your other comments, the biography of living persons policy says the the following about criticism:
“ | The views of critics should be represented if they are relevant to the subject's notability and can be sourced to reliable secondary sources, and so long as the material is written in a manner that does not overwhelm the article or appear to side with the critics; rather, it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone. Be careful not to give a disproportionate amount of space to critics, to avoid the effect of
representing a minority view as if it were the majority one. If the criticism represents the views of a tiny minority, it has no place in the article. Care must be taken with
article structure to ensure the overall presentation is broadly neutral, in particular, header structure for regions or subsections should reflect important areas to the subject's notability.
Content should be sourced to reliable sources and should be about the subject of the article specifically. Beware of claims that rely on guilt by association. Editors should also be on the lookout for biased or malicious content about living persons. If someone appears to be pushing an agenda or a biased point of view, insist on reliable third-party published sources and a clear demonstration of relevance to the person's notability. |
” |
My concern is that your version appears to side with the critics. Addhoc ( talk) 15:56, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
Dabashi is a national figure not because of his writing on film - which is dense and jargon-filled to the ppoint of incomprehensibility - but because he gets up ans calls the President of Columbia University ( Lee Bollinger - a good guy and a champion of freedom of speech and not a member of the Ku Klux Lkan) a "white supremacist." then he called Azar Nafisi, the wonderful writer who wrote "Reading Lolita in Tehran" a colonial agent comparable to "the most pestiferous colonial projects of the British in India," and said "To me there is no difference between Lynndie England and Azar Nafisi."
There's more , a lot more, like this. the guy is as controversial as hell. But , try and put any of this relevent, heavily sourced material up, and Addhoc expunges the material.
This article needs supervision. Come to that, so does Hamid Dabashi. Imagine calling Lee Bollinger a white supremicist. But I'll settle for some supervision of this page. Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 20:49, 12 March 2008 (UTC)Post-colonial truthsquad
I am eager and willing to have a rational discussion about what to do about this page. There are two problems: 1) Where to put Dabashi's controversial views. The things he says are, bizarre. But if a list of his more outrageous quotes doesn't work, we can do something else. 2) the larger problem is that he has fans and defenders who immediately delete anything that makes him look bad
so, balancing the pagee is only the first problem, how do we keep it balanced? meanwhile, I'm putting the quotes back. Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 00:27, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Post-modern truthsquad
What is a sandbox? and what does 1RR connote? Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 00:49, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Post-modern truthsquad
I am putting up a news section, an attempt to give some information on the fact that this man is a loose-cannon and politically nasty. Sorry, but he's hard to liver, er, work with. Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 02:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Post-modern truthsquad
These sections are problematic in that they describe Dabashi in his own words. I might have had fun, too, writing my own Wikipedia page and quoting my own views, books and articles to do it. Alas, the page was posted by others (readers? students?) who quote form third parties discussing my work. I did have the impression that Wikipedia was supposed to work that way, That you had to find a source other thatn the subject of the article to quote on the work the subject of the article does. Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 02:01, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Post-modern truthsquad
Look, a lot of major intellectual figures were/are flaming anti-Semites. T.S. Elliot, Martin Luther the list is long and distinguished. We don't reject the good work that these important intellectual figures did on the grounds that they were anti-Semitic. Insteead we put a small section on their Wikipedia pages documenting their hatred of Jews. I suggest that we use the T.S. Elliot page as a model and cconstruct a modest section on Dabashi's well-documented anti-Semitism. Thomas Babbington ( talk) 19:13, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Thomas Babbington
Addendum. I just looked at the T.S. Elliot page. The anti-Semitism section there is far too long to serve as a model. I had in mind a brief paragraph. But I firmly believe that such a paragraph is essential. Without it , we lose credibility. Thomas Babbington ( talk) 19:21, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Thomas Babbington
Addhoc, the article covers, perhaps at too-great length, an incident at Columbia. The committee you refer to was never charged with determining whether Dabashi or anyone else had made anti-Semitic statements. The charge was very narrow. The committee was only to investigate whether professors had harrassed students registered in courses they were teaching while inside the classroom. The instructions excluded published writing, speeches, etc. So the allegations that were without foundation (except Massad, who was found to have acted unprofessionaly and formally reprimanded) were of unprofessional behavior inside the classroom which, as far as I recall, no one ever charged Dabashi with. Just fyi Post-modern truthsquad ( talk) 21:31, 13 March 2008 (UTC)Post-modern truthsquad
All the above are now blocked as abusive sockpuppets. Except for Addhoc, of course. -- Relata refero ( disp.) 20:01, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
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The vast majority of this article currently consists of the "controversy" section which is pretty much overinflated with his critical views of Israel, giving them undue weight. This kind of zealotry really is something, both from the right and left wing types here on WP. Furthermore, the article as it currently stands is grossly in violation of WP:BLP. This is more an attack article than anything. IranianGuy ( talk) 05:50, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
Include his new book -- Brown Skin White Masks in his bibliography. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.58.132.52 ( talk) 00:00, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
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File:Hamid-Dabashi.png, has been nominated for deletion at
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The issue of unreliable sources has been brought up at WP:BLPN. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 01:35, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
@ Hyperionsteel: What about Dabashi was being misrepresented in a way that is corrected by the addition of uncited, undue weight material? And if it's a misrepresentation now, how was it not a misrepresentation at the time you were trying to edit-war it into the article, since nothing was changed? Give it a rest. The poor sources you were advocating have been removed, uninvolved users have pointed out the undue weight issue, and you just keep crusading. Stop adding uncited material, stop misrepresenting the subjects writings, and stop inflating the weight of this non-incident. I'm pinging you to give you the chance to revert your own disruptive edit. I would also recommend that you find interests outside of this topic area, because you've repeatedly demonstrated that you are not here to build an encyclopedia. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 19:29, 14 June 2015 (UTC)
@ Roscelese: Quite the temper you have there, Roscelese. You failed twice to remove this material at BLPN, so now you are resorting to ranting at me because you can't get your way. I'll try to address your new grievances one at a time:
@ Coretheapple: @ GraniteSand: You two mentioned at BLPN that the section was being given undue weight. Do you believe it's important to retain an assembly of quotations from a single source for the stated purpose of proving how "hysterical" the BLP subject is? Also @ NorthBySouthBaranof: from BLPN. – Roscelese ( talk ⋅ contribs) 04:27, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
And now, it is time to discuss the section on this page, rather than edit-warring over it. I suggest this is a much better idea than blocking anyone. Black Kite (talk) 00:09, 29 May 2015 (UTC)
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From Bashi's page, it seems that they are no longer married. The link on here to his personal website, corroborating their marriage, is broken and his personal website does not mention Bashi. Illang ( talk) 19:24, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
Her full name is Golbarg Bashi. Sorry. Illang ( talk) 19:27, 13 February 2020 (UTC)
The source is depreciated per RFC: Electronic Intifada, can we consider it to be aboutself? I would argue for a removal (including the sources content), but am open to alternatives. FortunateSons ( talk) 15:23, 23 January 2024 (UTC)