This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
At 01:57, 27 June 2019
HoAHabesha moved page
Abyssinian people to
Habesha peoples: the more common endonym "Habesha peoples" takes precedence over the less common archaic exonyme "Abyssinian people"
Since this page has archives (subpages), you should have asked an administrator (preferably) or a page mover for help. The archives still need moved; I'll do that now. – wbm1058 ( talk) 13:36, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Hmm, archive configuration is a bit complicated:
— wbm1058 ( talk) 14:22, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Talk:Habesha people is an orphaned talk page, as are its archives Talk:Habesha people/Archive 1, Talk:Habesha people/Archive 2, Talk:Habesha people/Archive 3 and Talk:Habesha people/Archive index. I left a note at User talk:ClueBot Commons/Archives/2020/May#Orphaned archives following page move about it, before I tried to figure out what (if anything) to do about those pages. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
I've found another issue with a source. Perhaps @ 192.5.215.225 and HoAHabesha can explain this more fully, as they're the ones who collectively added it (see this edit; plus this and this). The last sentence in the "In the Context of the Zemene Mesafint" section cited a single source (I added this citation template to the article; the previous citation appeared to have been copy-pasted, e.g. an ellipsis in place of the DOI):
However, nothing in this source says anything about "Zemene Mesafint," or "Gurage," or "warring factions" that are mentioned in the article section. What's strange (I think) is that there's a PDF copy of this at Academia.edu that further specifies "Original By: Mary Goitom | Edited By: Habesha Gaaffaa-Geeska Yäafrika, PhD". Yäafrika is the author of the problematic source I removed a couple of weeks ago (see previous #Synthesis, POV section). There is highlighting throughout the PDF, which presumably represents Yäafrika's modifications, except that the original author's name is highlighted, as well. The inline citations in this article don't actually specify the Academia.edu version, but it makes me wonder whether that version was used in the course of editing this article. It raises a couple of questions: (1) Why does Yäafrika keep turning up as a source (or, as an ostensible contributor to a source) where this Wikipedia article is concerned? (2) A larger question for Wikipedia in general: How can we tell that an upload to Academia.org is the verbatim text that the author wrote? For all we know, the "editing" didn't merely involve highlighting, and the text itself could've been modified. Since the original version at Springer is paid access, all I'm (currently) able to see is the Academia.edu version and I can't be sure it's what the author actually wrote or not. But ironically (I guess?) the edited version at Academia.edu doesn't even corroborate the the aforementioned "Zemene Mesafint" section. The other citations of this source seem less problematic, i.e. generally corroborating what the article says, but I didn't look extremely closely. For now I've removed the inline citation from the "Zemene Mesafint" section, although this leaves it unreferenced (and I've flagged it as such). I consolidated a duplicate citation of the same source, and removed it from "Further reading" since we're already citing it as a reference, anyway. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 00:19, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
I've just removed the following text from the end of the lede: " The population groups that make up the Habesha peoples trace their culture and ancestry back to the various constituent kingdoms, predecessor states, and successor states of the Ethiopian Empire in the Horn of Africa (e.g. the Kingdom of Dʿmt, the Kingdom of Aksum, Medri Bahri, the Kingdom of Kaffa as predecessors states, and the peoples and diaspora of the modern day successor states Ethiopia and Eritrea)." [1] Further along the same source and another are cited to specify ethnic groups, but both sources are about languages. Presumably these would mostly overlap with the ethnic groups but, once again, this isn't what the sources actually say. It's one thing to cite these regarding the evolution of languages but they say nothing about the emergence of groups or cultures. The Kitchen, et al. (2009) source only mentions pre-Aksumite and early Aksumite society in the context of when the Ethiosemitic languages emerged in that area. No mention of any other kingdoms. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:54, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
References
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
At 01:57, 27 June 2019
HoAHabesha moved page
Abyssinian people to
Habesha peoples: the more common endonym "Habesha peoples" takes precedence over the less common archaic exonyme "Abyssinian people"
Since this page has archives (subpages), you should have asked an administrator (preferably) or a page mover for help. The archives still need moved; I'll do that now. – wbm1058 ( talk) 13:36, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Hmm, archive configuration is a bit complicated:
— wbm1058 ( talk) 14:22, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
Talk:Habesha people is an orphaned talk page, as are its archives Talk:Habesha people/Archive 1, Talk:Habesha people/Archive 2, Talk:Habesha people/Archive 3 and Talk:Habesha people/Archive index. I left a note at User talk:ClueBot Commons/Archives/2020/May#Orphaned archives following page move about it, before I tried to figure out what (if anything) to do about those pages. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 18:56, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
I've found another issue with a source. Perhaps @ 192.5.215.225 and HoAHabesha can explain this more fully, as they're the ones who collectively added it (see this edit; plus this and this). The last sentence in the "In the Context of the Zemene Mesafint" section cited a single source (I added this citation template to the article; the previous citation appeared to have been copy-pasted, e.g. an ellipsis in place of the DOI):
However, nothing in this source says anything about "Zemene Mesafint," or "Gurage," or "warring factions" that are mentioned in the article section. What's strange (I think) is that there's a PDF copy of this at Academia.edu that further specifies "Original By: Mary Goitom | Edited By: Habesha Gaaffaa-Geeska Yäafrika, PhD". Yäafrika is the author of the problematic source I removed a couple of weeks ago (see previous #Synthesis, POV section). There is highlighting throughout the PDF, which presumably represents Yäafrika's modifications, except that the original author's name is highlighted, as well. The inline citations in this article don't actually specify the Academia.edu version, but it makes me wonder whether that version was used in the course of editing this article. It raises a couple of questions: (1) Why does Yäafrika keep turning up as a source (or, as an ostensible contributor to a source) where this Wikipedia article is concerned? (2) A larger question for Wikipedia in general: How can we tell that an upload to Academia.org is the verbatim text that the author wrote? For all we know, the "editing" didn't merely involve highlighting, and the text itself could've been modified. Since the original version at Springer is paid access, all I'm (currently) able to see is the Academia.edu version and I can't be sure it's what the author actually wrote or not. But ironically (I guess?) the edited version at Academia.edu doesn't even corroborate the the aforementioned "Zemene Mesafint" section. The other citations of this source seem less problematic, i.e. generally corroborating what the article says, but I didn't look extremely closely. For now I've removed the inline citation from the "Zemene Mesafint" section, although this leaves it unreferenced (and I've flagged it as such). I consolidated a duplicate citation of the same source, and removed it from "Further reading" since we're already citing it as a reference, anyway. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 00:19, 16 April 2020 (UTC)
I've just removed the following text from the end of the lede: " The population groups that make up the Habesha peoples trace their culture and ancestry back to the various constituent kingdoms, predecessor states, and successor states of the Ethiopian Empire in the Horn of Africa (e.g. the Kingdom of Dʿmt, the Kingdom of Aksum, Medri Bahri, the Kingdom of Kaffa as predecessors states, and the peoples and diaspora of the modern day successor states Ethiopia and Eritrea)." [1] Further along the same source and another are cited to specify ethnic groups, but both sources are about languages. Presumably these would mostly overlap with the ethnic groups but, once again, this isn't what the sources actually say. It's one thing to cite these regarding the evolution of languages but they say nothing about the emergence of groups or cultures. The Kitchen, et al. (2009) source only mentions pre-Aksumite and early Aksumite society in the context of when the Ethiosemitic languages emerged in that area. No mention of any other kingdoms. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 17:54, 30 April 2020 (UTC)
References