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Governor General of Canada article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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This article is written in Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Governor General of Canada was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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@ Mr Serjeant Buzfuz: I agree that we have to rely on sources, but that sentence as written is dubious. There is very likely a chiefdom in some isolated BC first nation that predates the office of the GG. The source obviously meant that it is the oldest institution established under Western law. — Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 15:40, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
The redirect President of canada has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 20 § President of canada until a consensus is reached. Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 19:00, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
The introductory paragraphs of the article are overly wordy. The first few sentences should clearly outline the origin of the Governor General's position, how they are appointed, their official roles and responsibilities and, importantly, their de facto role.
One must read up to the "Role" section to discover that the modern role of the Governor General is largely ceremonial. There is needless waffle about the King "residing in his oldest and most populous realm" - it reads like something written by a Royal historian. The statement about the tradition of alternating between French- and English-speaking appointees should be relegated to further in the article.
Also, the introduction does not even mention the name of the current GG.
This article about the Australian GG is far easier to read and gives the layman a decent understanding of the GG's position relatively quickly. 131.172.30.143 ( talk) 16:46, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
While I can understand from the perspective of those in-the-know about the Canadian governor general that the absence of a hyphen from the title is trivial, hyphenating the title as "governor-general of Canada" and pluralizing it as "governor-generals" are common errors in the media and elsewhere. So, it seems clarification in this article is helpful and I don't think a note will get noticed. To sort of try to meet the two sides halfway, I've put the spelling info back in article mainspace, but, as the last section, at the bottom. Does that suffice? ₪ MIESIANIACAL 16:07, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
@ Miesianiacal: I noticed you removed "head of state" from the intro, as a description of the monarch's position, but I restored it. Would it not be best to let our readers know that Charles III is both monarch & head of state of Canada, as well as the rest of the Commonwealth realms? Anyways, if you disagree (via reverting)? I'll let it be. GoodDay ( talk) 21:02, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
@ GoodDay: I have reworded the sentence you reverted so that it is now in quotations and says that the GG has been "described as the 'de facto head of state'." Please note the difference between saying the "GG is the de facto head of state" and "has been described as the 'de facto head of state'". I have included eight sources, several of which are academic journals, others of which are CBC News items. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] You may disagree with what these sources say but that's not a reason to remove reliably sourced information. Wellington Bay ( talk) 15:45, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
References
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Should it be mentioned in the lead, that the governor general is described as Canada's de facto head of state? GoodDay ( talk) 20:15, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
official government sources, judges, constitutional scholars, and pollstersas is noted in our Monarchy of Canada article and the talk discussion there. Stating this extreme minority view as the truth in the lede is contrary to WP:WEIGHT. I also agree with Moxy's point above. Finally, the fact that Section 9 of the BNA vests all executive power in the monarch saying "The Executive Government and Authority of and over Canada is hereby declared to continue and be vested in the Queen." [1] makes it pretty clear that the head of state is Queen/King not the GG.-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 17:49, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
As the sovereign's representative, the governor general carries out the day-to-day constitutional and ceremonial duties of the monarch, operating as the de facto head of state.Because the opening literally says (at the moment): "[the monarch] ... appoints a governor general to administer the government of Canada in the monarch's name". If you are acting in someone's name, you are de facto being/acting as that person. I don't understand why that is even remotely controversial, especially given the sources provided. No one is saying the gg is the head of state: the point is they act as/for the head of state, i.e. they are the de facto head of state. This is different from carrying out explicit orders: instead, the gg is acting of the gg's own volition with the monarch's full authority. The gg does not get their marching orders from the monarch... the monarch empowers the gg to exercise the monarch's authority. — Joeyconnick ( talk) 19:14, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
The Canadian Press Stylebook also now provides some support for this “de facto” title, stating that the Queen is head of state, and the GG her representative in Canada and, “as such is Canada’s de facto head of state.”-- asilvering ( talk) 03:32, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
I'm arguing that it shouldn't be in the intro. GoodDay ( talk) 21:34, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
I'm not necessarily against it in the lead, but I don't think it should be in the opening sentence. That seems a bit much for an unofficial and controversial interpretation. — Kawnhr ( talk) 21:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
[f]or many years, journalists and broadcasters have contributed to the confusion and fuss about who is, in fact, the Canadian head of state.Just because "linguistic recklessness persists in describing the Governor General as our head of state" doesn't mean we need to give voice to it. [7] And certainly not in the lede.-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 15:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Though the Letters Patent give the governor general the authority to act as head of state both domestically and internationally, they do not change the monarch’s status as Head of State (see Monarchism).
The head of state is the Canadian monarch.Their duties are carried out by the governor general, who acts as the representative of the Crown — currently Charles III — in Canada. (Lieutenant-Governors fulfill the same role in provincial governments.)
Under Canada’s constitutional monarchy, the sovereign is head of state,the legal foundation of the executive branch of government and one part of Parliament...
While Letters Patent delegated Crown prerogatives to the governor general, the sovereign remains Head of State.
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Governor General of Canada article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Archives: 1 |
This article is written in Canadian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, centre, travelled, realize, analyze) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus. |
Governor General of Canada was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
@ Mr Serjeant Buzfuz: I agree that we have to rely on sources, but that sentence as written is dubious. There is very likely a chiefdom in some isolated BC first nation that predates the office of the GG. The source obviously meant that it is the oldest institution established under Western law. — Arctic Gnome ( talk • contribs) 15:40, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
The redirect President of canada has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 March 20 § President of canada until a consensus is reached. Ivanvector ( Talk/ Edits) 19:00, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
The introductory paragraphs of the article are overly wordy. The first few sentences should clearly outline the origin of the Governor General's position, how they are appointed, their official roles and responsibilities and, importantly, their de facto role.
One must read up to the "Role" section to discover that the modern role of the Governor General is largely ceremonial. There is needless waffle about the King "residing in his oldest and most populous realm" - it reads like something written by a Royal historian. The statement about the tradition of alternating between French- and English-speaking appointees should be relegated to further in the article.
Also, the introduction does not even mention the name of the current GG.
This article about the Australian GG is far easier to read and gives the layman a decent understanding of the GG's position relatively quickly. 131.172.30.143 ( talk) 16:46, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
While I can understand from the perspective of those in-the-know about the Canadian governor general that the absence of a hyphen from the title is trivial, hyphenating the title as "governor-general of Canada" and pluralizing it as "governor-generals" are common errors in the media and elsewhere. So, it seems clarification in this article is helpful and I don't think a note will get noticed. To sort of try to meet the two sides halfway, I've put the spelling info back in article mainspace, but, as the last section, at the bottom. Does that suffice? ₪ MIESIANIACAL 16:07, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
@ Miesianiacal: I noticed you removed "head of state" from the intro, as a description of the monarch's position, but I restored it. Would it not be best to let our readers know that Charles III is both monarch & head of state of Canada, as well as the rest of the Commonwealth realms? Anyways, if you disagree (via reverting)? I'll let it be. GoodDay ( talk) 21:02, 15 March 2024 (UTC)
@ GoodDay: I have reworded the sentence you reverted so that it is now in quotations and says that the GG has been "described as the 'de facto head of state'." Please note the difference between saying the "GG is the de facto head of state" and "has been described as the 'de facto head of state'". I have included eight sources, several of which are academic journals, others of which are CBC News items. [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] [6] [7] [8] You may disagree with what these sources say but that's not a reason to remove reliably sourced information. Wellington Bay ( talk) 15:45, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
References
|
Should it be mentioned in the lead, that the governor general is described as Canada's de facto head of state? GoodDay ( talk) 20:15, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
official government sources, judges, constitutional scholars, and pollstersas is noted in our Monarchy of Canada article and the talk discussion there. Stating this extreme minority view as the truth in the lede is contrary to WP:WEIGHT. I also agree with Moxy's point above. Finally, the fact that Section 9 of the BNA vests all executive power in the monarch saying "The Executive Government and Authority of and over Canada is hereby declared to continue and be vested in the Queen." [1] makes it pretty clear that the head of state is Queen/King not the GG.-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 17:49, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
As the sovereign's representative, the governor general carries out the day-to-day constitutional and ceremonial duties of the monarch, operating as the de facto head of state.Because the opening literally says (at the moment): "[the monarch] ... appoints a governor general to administer the government of Canada in the monarch's name". If you are acting in someone's name, you are de facto being/acting as that person. I don't understand why that is even remotely controversial, especially given the sources provided. No one is saying the gg is the head of state: the point is they act as/for the head of state, i.e. they are the de facto head of state. This is different from carrying out explicit orders: instead, the gg is acting of the gg's own volition with the monarch's full authority. The gg does not get their marching orders from the monarch... the monarch empowers the gg to exercise the monarch's authority. — Joeyconnick ( talk) 19:14, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
The Canadian Press Stylebook also now provides some support for this “de facto” title, stating that the Queen is head of state, and the GG her representative in Canada and, “as such is Canada’s de facto head of state.”-- asilvering ( talk) 03:32, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
I'm arguing that it shouldn't be in the intro. GoodDay ( talk) 21:34, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
I'm not necessarily against it in the lead, but I don't think it should be in the opening sentence. That seems a bit much for an unofficial and controversial interpretation. — Kawnhr ( talk) 21:56, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
[f]or many years, journalists and broadcasters have contributed to the confusion and fuss about who is, in fact, the Canadian head of state.Just because "linguistic recklessness persists in describing the Governor General as our head of state" doesn't mean we need to give voice to it. [7] And certainly not in the lede.-- Darryl Kerrigan ( talk) 15:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
Though the Letters Patent give the governor general the authority to act as head of state both domestically and internationally, they do not change the monarch’s status as Head of State (see Monarchism).
The head of state is the Canadian monarch.Their duties are carried out by the governor general, who acts as the representative of the Crown — currently Charles III — in Canada. (Lieutenant-Governors fulfill the same role in provincial governments.)
Under Canada’s constitutional monarchy, the sovereign is head of state,the legal foundation of the executive branch of government and one part of Parliament...
While Letters Patent delegated Crown prerogatives to the governor general, the sovereign remains Head of State.