Syrian hamster care was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 23 January 2023 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Golden hamster. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
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The result of the debate was don't move. — Nightst a llion (?) Seen this already? 07:57, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Golden Hamster→ Syrian Hamster– {"syrian hamster" is a more all encompassing name for that type of hamster, as "golden hamster" commonly only refers to the short-hairs of that particular coloring} copied from the entry on the WP:RM page
Why was the discussion closed? I would hardly consider a single vote to move and a single weak oppose to indicate a consensus was reached to not move the article. -- Aranae 16:38, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. Wouldn't they just cancel each other out?
Even though the discussion is closed, obviously the weak oppose person wasn't looking at sources that considered pet hamsters. Wild Syrians are all golden because that is their color in the wild as well. But this page encompasses all Syrians, including pet ones (especially since they are probably extinct in the wild). If you look at pet hamster resources, especially for hamster breeders, fanciers, and show-ers, they are always called Syrians unless actually golden in coat pattern.
Hamsteries:
http://hometown.aol.com/TheRiverRd/
http://www.rainbowhamstery.co.uk/
http://www.jeremiahhamstery.co.uk/list.php?FA=1&FB=1
Hamster societies and associations (for hamster shows--like dog clubs that host dog shows, but for hamsters):
http://www.midlandhamsterclub.co.uk/
http://www.hamsoc.org.uk/varieties.php
Pet:
http://www.petwebsite.com/hamsters/hamster_species.htm
As you can see, this type of hamster, when considered as pets, are called Syrians, while "Golden" is an alternate name or a specific coloring. And seeing as pretty much ALL animals of this type are in captivity today as they have not been seen in decades in the wild, it is more sensible to name this article with the more commonly used name. (unsigned post by 141.211.173.150)
http://www.hamsoc.org.uk/varieties.php?id=golden " Syrian hamsters were brought to the UK in 1931. To begin with, golden was the only colour, but new varieties soon appeared. Although the terms "golden hamster" and "Syrian hamster" have been used interchangably, "golden" should apply only to the original wild (or Agouti) colour. A good example of a modern golden hamster is more akin to deep mahogany red than golden." If an organization makes itself the accepted authority for the development of an arguably extinct species, wouldn't you say that makes a pretty good source?
I agree this article should be under Syrian Hamster not Golden Hamster. Golden Hamster makes it sound like it just includes hamsters that are actually golden, or that there aren't other color varieties. And like some of the last people said, most people call them Syrian Hamsters now, so this article should too.
I also agree that the name should be Syrian Hamster. The term Golden was given before all of the variations exisited. 21:33, 5 July 2010 (UTC)mlatham23 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mlatham23 ( talk • contribs)
I'm considering adding a line or two about "alien hamsters" (hairless syrians). It's a rather detrimental mutation (along with no hair, females can't lactate) and are very carefully bred with haired parents that carry the gene. But they are somewhat more of a novelty and can't stand alone as a breed (due to females basically being unable to rear young). Any thoughts?
Why? There are a lot of them, most of them as pets I know, but I bet that they could do well if released in the wild. Cuzandor 23:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
The IUCN lists it as EN B1+2c [1]:
Black bear hamster ~ user:orngjce223 how am I typing? 21:25, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
How much does a Syrian hamster weigh? What's the expectation for the average weight of a Syrian hamster? The article gives information for what you could expect for the length of a Syrian hamster [the article states "Adults grow from 5 to 7 inches (12.5 to 17.5 cm) in length"], but no information for what you could reasonably expect a Syrian hamster to weigh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwakkles ( talk • contribs) 04:29, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
In my observation they weigh around 4 oz. 70.137.155.84 ( talk) 01:32, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard ( talk) 14:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Syrian Hamster → Golden hamster — WP:RODENT uses sentence case now; and "golden" is used by MSW3 and the IUCN Red List, whose names are usually used for mammal names on Wikipedia; and besides is more common on Google with 484,000 hits to Syrian's 301,000. — innotata ( Talk • Contribs) 20:23, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. harej 09:05, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Golden hamster →
Syrian hamster — – {"syrian hamster" is a more all encompassing name for that type of hamster, as "golden hamster" commonly only refers to the short-hairs of that particular coloring}
The Golden Hamster has been bred into many colors and long haired also. The current picture does not represent the current Syrian Hamster as it appears in the wild in Syria so therefore should be changed. The current picture could be moved to another part of the article but I believe the lead picture should represent the original short haired version as it appears in the wild in Syria because this article is about the syrian hamster. On another point I have a actual hamster that is a hybrid of a Big Golden Hamster crossed with a little Siberian Hamster which was long haired but did not have the very long hair near the tale like a angora Golden Hamster. The hamster is one quarter siberian hamster and three quarters syrian hamster. I mated the hybrid female with another Peach colored Golden Hamster. The weird thing is that most of the babies all appear as Golden Hamster but one is much smaller then the rest and looks like one of those little siberian hamsters but with long hair. It came from the same litter and is so much different then its brothers and sisters in both form and color. It was the last one to be weened from the mother. I am going to keep this little one to breed with perhaps crossing it back with a full blooded siberian hampster. Hybrids are so cool. 108.81.134.236 ( talk) 08:07, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
Plantdrew says, "Syrian/golden hamster is currently mid importance for rodents... Maybe the species should be high?"
I changed the importance here to top. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Rodents/Assessment#Importance_scale assigns top importance to "topics of a continental or global nature". Syrian hamster is one of world's most popular pets and one of world's most important research animals. In the field of rodents this is a top importance animal. Blue Rasberry (talk) 21:24, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
I just removed content from this article on animal testing. I put all content with citations into a new article, animal testing on Syrian hamsters. I then copied the lead of that article here, and linked to the main article. This section could be expanded but I think before the coverage of specific conditions was excessive and now there is a review of everything. I changed the section title from "use in scientific research" to "use in animal testing" because that is how other similar Wikipedia articles are named. Blue Rasberry (talk) 02:32, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
I just made these articles live and linked them from here.
The hamster cage article has more Syrian hamster information but much applies to any hamster. Blue Rasberry (talk) 04:19, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
@ FunkMonk: You suggested a merge of Domestication of the Syrian hamster into this article. I do not immediately see why - this seems like WP:UNDUE detail for me adding about 10k of prose to this article when I think that would be excessive. Can you say a bit more, and also give an opinion about whether these should be merged?
My initial view without knowing what you see is that all of these can stand alone, none of them are more suitable for a merge here than any other, and all of these are likely to develop further on their own. Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 13:05, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
86.130.4.25, if multiple people register concern with a source, then you do NOT get to force it in by edit-warring [2] [3]. This is the blog of a pet food company, written by whatever employee has the job of answering customer questions; it does not fulfill our requirements for reliability. Please find a better source or desist from trying to add this material. (BTW, edit-warring with an admin is generally considered a suboptimal choice.) -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 20:01, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Calidum 19:21, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Golden hamster → Syrian hamster – WP:COMMONNAME. "Syrian hamster" on Google renders 1,270,000 results, while "Golden hamster" renders 499,000 results. Nice4What ( talk · contribs) – ( Thanks ♥) 06:02, 13 May 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. b uidh e 04:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link)The Germans are great lovers of hamsters and excellent in documenting natural history. I do not understand German, but I notice hamster resources from time to time in German language. There is this book by this zoologist, Rolf Gattermann, who has a history of publication and research on hamsters. The book came out this year and is more than 400 pages on the Syrian hamster.
I expect that this book is authoritative on many details which this article requires to be complete, and so I am sharing it here. Blue Rasberry (talk) 19:45, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
WP:NOTHOWTO; not enough encyclopedic content on hamster care as a standalone topic. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 23:52, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
“Golden hamster” is a misleading name. They can come in many, many different colors and patterns, not just golden. “Syrian hamster” isn’t as misleading and is much more common. It indicates that the hamster is from Syria, which is true. And, not only that, but every other article calls it “Syrian hamster”. Syrian hamster variations, Syrian hamster behavior, Syrian hamster breeding, they all call it “Syrian hamster”. Even the invalid Syrian hamster care (invalid because it is a how-to article, and Wikipedia dosen’t accept how-to content) calls it a Syrian hamster. So it’s safe to say that the title should be “Syrian hamster”, not “Golden hamster”. GenZenny ( talk) 17:13, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Until 1971 all hamsters in labs and as pets descended from the female captured by Aharoni in 1930. In 1971 Michael R. Murphy, a Ph.D. student at M.I.T., and his wife, Janet Fearn Murphy, obtained wild hamsters from the vicinity of Aleppo, Syria, and brought them back to Boston. They were housed at N.H.M.H. and kept as a separately bred strain, the Murphy strain. Murphy reasoned that the 1930 descendants might have been so inbred that this might be the cause of some unusual characteristics such as the ability to accept transplanted organs. The new availability of wild hamster has been useful for subsequent scientific research. 136.51.1.213 ( talk) 17:55, 27 December 2023 (UTC)
Syrian hamster care was nominated for deletion. The discussion was closed on 23 January 2023 with a consensus to merge. Its contents were merged into Golden hamster. The original page is now a redirect to this page. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected article, please see its history; for its talk page, see here. |
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Golden hamster article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The result of the debate was don't move. — Nightst a llion (?) Seen this already? 07:57, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Golden Hamster→ Syrian Hamster– {"syrian hamster" is a more all encompassing name for that type of hamster, as "golden hamster" commonly only refers to the short-hairs of that particular coloring} copied from the entry on the WP:RM page
Why was the discussion closed? I would hardly consider a single vote to move and a single weak oppose to indicate a consensus was reached to not move the article. -- Aranae 16:38, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. Wouldn't they just cancel each other out?
Even though the discussion is closed, obviously the weak oppose person wasn't looking at sources that considered pet hamsters. Wild Syrians are all golden because that is their color in the wild as well. But this page encompasses all Syrians, including pet ones (especially since they are probably extinct in the wild). If you look at pet hamster resources, especially for hamster breeders, fanciers, and show-ers, they are always called Syrians unless actually golden in coat pattern.
Hamsteries:
http://hometown.aol.com/TheRiverRd/
http://www.rainbowhamstery.co.uk/
http://www.jeremiahhamstery.co.uk/list.php?FA=1&FB=1
Hamster societies and associations (for hamster shows--like dog clubs that host dog shows, but for hamsters):
http://www.midlandhamsterclub.co.uk/
http://www.hamsoc.org.uk/varieties.php
Pet:
http://www.petwebsite.com/hamsters/hamster_species.htm
As you can see, this type of hamster, when considered as pets, are called Syrians, while "Golden" is an alternate name or a specific coloring. And seeing as pretty much ALL animals of this type are in captivity today as they have not been seen in decades in the wild, it is more sensible to name this article with the more commonly used name. (unsigned post by 141.211.173.150)
http://www.hamsoc.org.uk/varieties.php?id=golden " Syrian hamsters were brought to the UK in 1931. To begin with, golden was the only colour, but new varieties soon appeared. Although the terms "golden hamster" and "Syrian hamster" have been used interchangably, "golden" should apply only to the original wild (or Agouti) colour. A good example of a modern golden hamster is more akin to deep mahogany red than golden." If an organization makes itself the accepted authority for the development of an arguably extinct species, wouldn't you say that makes a pretty good source?
I agree this article should be under Syrian Hamster not Golden Hamster. Golden Hamster makes it sound like it just includes hamsters that are actually golden, or that there aren't other color varieties. And like some of the last people said, most people call them Syrian Hamsters now, so this article should too.
I also agree that the name should be Syrian Hamster. The term Golden was given before all of the variations exisited. 21:33, 5 July 2010 (UTC)mlatham23 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mlatham23 ( talk • contribs)
I'm considering adding a line or two about "alien hamsters" (hairless syrians). It's a rather detrimental mutation (along with no hair, females can't lactate) and are very carefully bred with haired parents that carry the gene. But they are somewhat more of a novelty and can't stand alone as a breed (due to females basically being unable to rear young). Any thoughts?
Why? There are a lot of them, most of them as pets I know, but I bet that they could do well if released in the wild. Cuzandor 23:47, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
The IUCN lists it as EN B1+2c [1]:
Black bear hamster ~ user:orngjce223 how am I typing? 21:25, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
How much does a Syrian hamster weigh? What's the expectation for the average weight of a Syrian hamster? The article gives information for what you could expect for the length of a Syrian hamster [the article states "Adults grow from 5 to 7 inches (12.5 to 17.5 cm) in length"], but no information for what you could reasonably expect a Syrian hamster to weigh. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kwakkles ( talk • contribs) 04:29, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
In my observation they weigh around 4 oz. 70.137.155.84 ( talk) 01:32, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard ( talk) 14:16, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
Syrian Hamster → Golden hamster — WP:RODENT uses sentence case now; and "golden" is used by MSW3 and the IUCN Red List, whose names are usually used for mammal names on Wikipedia; and besides is more common on Google with 484,000 hits to Syrian's 301,000. — innotata ( Talk • Contribs) 20:23, 6 February 2010 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. harej 09:05, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
Golden hamster →
Syrian hamster — – {"syrian hamster" is a more all encompassing name for that type of hamster, as "golden hamster" commonly only refers to the short-hairs of that particular coloring}
The Golden Hamster has been bred into many colors and long haired also. The current picture does not represent the current Syrian Hamster as it appears in the wild in Syria so therefore should be changed. The current picture could be moved to another part of the article but I believe the lead picture should represent the original short haired version as it appears in the wild in Syria because this article is about the syrian hamster. On another point I have a actual hamster that is a hybrid of a Big Golden Hamster crossed with a little Siberian Hamster which was long haired but did not have the very long hair near the tale like a angora Golden Hamster. The hamster is one quarter siberian hamster and three quarters syrian hamster. I mated the hybrid female with another Peach colored Golden Hamster. The weird thing is that most of the babies all appear as Golden Hamster but one is much smaller then the rest and looks like one of those little siberian hamsters but with long hair. It came from the same litter and is so much different then its brothers and sisters in both form and color. It was the last one to be weened from the mother. I am going to keep this little one to breed with perhaps crossing it back with a full blooded siberian hampster. Hybrids are so cool. 108.81.134.236 ( talk) 08:07, 12 May 2012 (UTC)
Plantdrew says, "Syrian/golden hamster is currently mid importance for rodents... Maybe the species should be high?"
I changed the importance here to top. Wikipedia:WikiProject_Rodents/Assessment#Importance_scale assigns top importance to "topics of a continental or global nature". Syrian hamster is one of world's most popular pets and one of world's most important research animals. In the field of rodents this is a top importance animal. Blue Rasberry (talk) 21:24, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
I just removed content from this article on animal testing. I put all content with citations into a new article, animal testing on Syrian hamsters. I then copied the lead of that article here, and linked to the main article. This section could be expanded but I think before the coverage of specific conditions was excessive and now there is a review of everything. I changed the section title from "use in scientific research" to "use in animal testing" because that is how other similar Wikipedia articles are named. Blue Rasberry (talk) 02:32, 17 April 2016 (UTC)
I just made these articles live and linked them from here.
The hamster cage article has more Syrian hamster information but much applies to any hamster. Blue Rasberry (talk) 04:19, 23 February 2017 (UTC)
@ FunkMonk: You suggested a merge of Domestication of the Syrian hamster into this article. I do not immediately see why - this seems like WP:UNDUE detail for me adding about 10k of prose to this article when I think that would be excessive. Can you say a bit more, and also give an opinion about whether these should be merged?
My initial view without knowing what you see is that all of these can stand alone, none of them are more suitable for a merge here than any other, and all of these are likely to develop further on their own. Thanks. Blue Rasberry (talk) 13:05, 10 May 2018 (UTC)
86.130.4.25, if multiple people register concern with a source, then you do NOT get to force it in by edit-warring [2] [3]. This is the blog of a pet food company, written by whatever employee has the job of answering customer questions; it does not fulfill our requirements for reliability. Please find a better source or desist from trying to add this material. (BTW, edit-warring with an admin is generally considered a suboptimal choice.) -- Elmidae ( talk · contribs) 20:01, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
The result of the move request was: no consensus. ( closed by non-admin page mover) Calidum 19:21, 8 June 2020 (UTC)
Golden hamster → Syrian hamster – WP:COMMONNAME. "Syrian hamster" on Google renders 1,270,000 results, while "Golden hamster" renders 499,000 results. Nice4What ( talk · contribs) – ( Thanks ♥) 06:02, 13 May 2020 (UTC) —Relisting. b uidh e 04:02, 22 May 2020 (UTC)
{{
cite book}}
: CS1 maint: location missing publisher (
link)The Germans are great lovers of hamsters and excellent in documenting natural history. I do not understand German, but I notice hamster resources from time to time in German language. There is this book by this zoologist, Rolf Gattermann, who has a history of publication and research on hamsters. The book came out this year and is more than 400 pages on the Syrian hamster.
I expect that this book is authoritative on many details which this article requires to be complete, and so I am sharing it here. Blue Rasberry (talk) 19:45, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
WP:NOTHOWTO; not enough encyclopedic content on hamster care as a standalone topic. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 23:52, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
“Golden hamster” is a misleading name. They can come in many, many different colors and patterns, not just golden. “Syrian hamster” isn’t as misleading and is much more common. It indicates that the hamster is from Syria, which is true. And, not only that, but every other article calls it “Syrian hamster”. Syrian hamster variations, Syrian hamster behavior, Syrian hamster breeding, they all call it “Syrian hamster”. Even the invalid Syrian hamster care (invalid because it is a how-to article, and Wikipedia dosen’t accept how-to content) calls it a Syrian hamster. So it’s safe to say that the title should be “Syrian hamster”, not “Golden hamster”. GenZenny ( talk) 17:13, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
Until 1971 all hamsters in labs and as pets descended from the female captured by Aharoni in 1930. In 1971 Michael R. Murphy, a Ph.D. student at M.I.T., and his wife, Janet Fearn Murphy, obtained wild hamsters from the vicinity of Aleppo, Syria, and brought them back to Boston. They were housed at N.H.M.H. and kept as a separately bred strain, the Murphy strain. Murphy reasoned that the 1930 descendants might have been so inbred that this might be the cause of some unusual characteristics such as the ability to accept transplanted organs. The new availability of wild hamster has been useful for subsequent scientific research. 136.51.1.213 ( talk) 17:55, 27 December 2023 (UTC)