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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 22:07, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
To lquilter: I knew I was pushing the scope on the SiSF page. But I'm not sure how to disambiguate, e.g., Delaney's writings...he does address gender and many other social phenomena through sexuality (which for Delaney is a realm of individual uniqueness)...whereas LeGuin tends to do the opposite. In fact social science is an important subject for SF writers - sometimes sometimes as subtext and sometimes explicitly - so maybe we should address that separately. Anyway, I'm thrilled to have contributed to some extent and therefore now have gotten a username. Thank you. Vendrov 07:38, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
- Hey Vendrov - Glad you're working on this. I had to take off a couple of months for personal stuff but am getting back in the game again. Will see you around, and I'll start working on this page again. -- lquilter 19:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
- I think we need some mention of notable works here. For example, "Left Hand of Darkness" gets no mention here or in SiSF. Rodparkes 01:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
The image used with the caption "typically masculine SF hero" is a guy in a blouse, a beret, and a skirt? This looks like a joke. Surely a more representative image of male masculinity can be found. DreamGuy ( talk) 16:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I think you are showing your cultural bias. Kilts are extremely masculine in some places, as are Jack boots. It was chosen as being both free and being a depiction of the undeniably über-masculine Heinlein character.
Yob
Mod 14:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
- There are much better images that could be used to demonstrate that caption. My "cultural bias" is the same as the overwhelming majority of people looking at this article. Someone dressed like a schoolgirl shouldn't be used as an example of "typical" masculinity. DreamGuy ( talk) 17:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems to kind of stop at the 1970s. I think there's been some advances or at least alterations since then. There's been Kathryn Janeway, Susan Ivanova, Max Guevara, Kira Nerys, Laura Roslin, Turanga Leela, and Dana Scully. Not saying those are all unqualified successes or universally positive or whatever, but their a bit different than just hired-guns for unseen men or secretaries.-- T. Anthony ( talk) 11:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
And many more. The article looks unfinished, and curiously, it stops right at the time when SF TV became a lot more gender-balanced and when many strong female characters appeared on various SF TV series. As if the writer of this was more interested in criticizing the times when SF was male-dominated, and assumed that people knew that things got better in the last couple of decades. That makes the article look very weird and incomplete. Someone should definitely complete it with a review of the prominent female characters in SF series of the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s. Nightandday ( talk) 12:40, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
How is
Buffy The Vampire Slayer not mentioned? --
24.60.176.100 (
talk) 13:33, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
In the Chakat Universe there are no less than four genders. Here is a list of them in order of prevalence:
¤ Female (she, her).
¤ Male (he, him, his).
¤ Simultaneous hermaphrodite (shi, hir).
¤ Sequential hermaphrodite (hy, hym, hys).
There are three species consisting entirely of simultaneous hermaphrodites. These are chakat, stellar foxtaur and faleshkarti. All members these species look like women but with additional male genitals. An unknown number of other species have three genders: male, female and simultaneous hermaphrodite. Such hermaphrodites may have female or male secondary sex characteristics or a mixture of both. There is even a human who is a fully functional hermaphrodite. She was born as a girl and grew up feeling that there was something missing in hir. As a young adult shi realised that shi was mentally a simultaneous hermaphrodite. With a combination of sex reassignment surgery and gene therapy shi become the first human ever with fully functional male and female genitals. Shi still looks like a woman but with male genitals placed in front of the female ones.
The only species of sequential hermaphrodites is the skunktaur. In this species all children look like boys until puberty when they acquire the ability to change between male and female primary and secondary sex characteristics. Typically, they change sex characteristics voluntary every few weeks. However, pregnant skuntaurs have to remain female-looking until the child is born. The only other case of a sequential hermaphrodite is a anthropomorphised stoat who can change sex characteristics at will. (In the Chakat Universe there are several hundred species of anthropomorphised land mammals.) Hy was secretly created to suite as a sex slave. Please note that in the Stellar Federation – where most of the stories take place – slavery is banned and prostitution is strictly regulated. Only people with pathologically high sex drive is allowed to work as prostitutes and even they are not forced to have more sex than they can enjoy.
The stories also deals with numerous other topics including polyamorous relations, genetically engineered people, first contact with alien species, inter-species marriage and reproduction, and even teleportation. However, technology is only a part of the backdrop and is not explained more than necessary. Sex is an integrated part of many of the stories focusing on relation between adults. After all, they are written for an adult audience.
2009-06-23 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
In the comics section, recommend adding something on the Ooku manga series. I would have done this but the comics section in this article doesn't really deal directly with speculative fiction/comics but more with just gender considerations in comics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.183.71.67 ( talk) 08:53, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
- Left Hand of Darkness U K LeGuin - unstable gender
- Gaia (novel) - 4 gendered centaurs
All the best:
Rich
Farmbrough, 22:32, 20 October 2014 (UTC).
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Hi @ Snikrdoodle91: -- I see that you're in a class, and that's exciting -- I'm delighted that classes are looking at these kinds of articles and bias issues in Wikipedia. So, first, thanks for your contributions.
Now, some comments, because I give feedback to writers, among other things. I think that some of your edits are not reading the same way that you perhaps intend them to. For instance:
- You changed "The portrayal of women, or more broadly, the portrayal of gender in the speculative genres," to "The portrayal of women, or female-identified characters in the speculative genres". Here, you're substituting "female-identified characters" for "portrayal of gender". These two phrases are not substitutable, really. I think you perhaps mean to add "female-identified characters" to "women" to expand that phrase, or perhaps to substitute for the phrase "women". But "portrayal of gender" is a separate meaning. You've done that again further in the paragraph ("understandings and portrayals of women, men, and sexuality" converted to "understandings and portrayals of gender and sexuality") and again, I think these are semantically distinct. It works better in the second instance, but I think it's problematic in the first. I'd suggest something like this for the first sentence:
- "The portrayal of women (or female-identified characters) and, more broadly, the depiction of gender in the speculative genres ..."
That provides a little more context for the use of "female-identified" instead of "women".
- General point about "female-identified". What's your thinking about incorporating this term? You have done it sometimes, but not other times, and I can't see a pattern, really. I would argue that "female-identified" is appropriate sometimes to clarify and expand, but substituting the term for "women" in all or most cases seems unnecessarily lengthy and jargonistic. That's not what you're doing, obviously, but how are you deciding which term is appropriate?
- You then switch to "feminine-identified" which is yet a different term.
- This sentence, "As more and more readers and fans of science fiction become female identified" - is quite awkward. Are you meaning it to read, "As more fans are transitioning" ...? Or are you meaning it as the demographics of fandom shift ...?
- You've also capitalized a number of words sort of randomly in the middle of sentences -- "Speculative fiction", "Authors".
- The examples of texts (Dick & Tolkien) you've added don't actually have any content about the characters, so they're not really helpful to the reader of this encyclopedia article -- literally hundreds or thousands of texts could be listed; so why choose these? Are they exemplary in some fashion? Groundbreaking?
- And lastly, I'd like you to really look at the paragraph you added, and please consider how your sentences actually add substantive examples or points, rather than generally re-stating the point of this section.
Hope these comments are helpful as you think about writing.
Lquilter ( talk) 11:09, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 00:11, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
It should be noted that 'Gender in speculative fiction is, the topic umbrella that I'll be tackling in my wiki.edu class. And as such, the following bibliography is of a source that will be used to supplement the article that I will contribute towards, in other words, this article here.
Sophie Jacquot (2010) The Paradox of Gender Mainstreaming: Unanticipated Effects of New Modes of Governance in the Gender Equality Domain, West European Politics, 33:1, 118-135, DOI: 10.1080/01402380903354163
With the source that I've found, the main argument it has is the form and significance of gender mainstreaming and introduces a new perspective that challenges the current policies of Europe's government involving the 'Community Method.' The key issue that the article introduces is the challenges that gender mainstreaming against European modes of government involving their classic methods of societal integration. Furthermore, this article touches upon the impact of genre mainstreaming on the development of gender equality policy. The analytical methodologies/methods or lenses it uses to approach gender mainstreaming is through the analysis of Societal methodologies such as the Community Method, the Open Method of Coordination, and other methods such as sector-specific methodologies, control lists, and formation programs.This article concludes that gender mainstreaming challenges the conventional understanding of institutionalization. As such, the challenges this presents are more often than not a cognitive dilemma. In this manner, the marginalization in certain industries such as the acting industry provides a better picture as to why there is a power redistribution amongst actors and the modification of access to the gender equality sector. Though the article states that policy does not change as promptly as one may like, the beginning of policy change such as gender equality must be done through the utilization of policy instruments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cvelmonte ( talk • contribs) 05:38, 2 March 2021 (UTC)
|
| This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Part of a series on |
| Sex in speculative fiction |
|---|
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Jswils20.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 21:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 20 January 2021 and 7 May 2021. Further details are available
on the course page. Student editor(s):
Cvelmonte.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 21:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available
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Snikrdoodle91.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 22:07, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
To lquilter: I knew I was pushing the scope on the SiSF page. But I'm not sure how to disambiguate, e.g., Delaney's writings...he does address gender and many other social phenomena through sexuality (which for Delaney is a realm of individual uniqueness)...whereas LeGuin tends to do the opposite. In fact social science is an important subject for SF writers - sometimes sometimes as subtext and sometimes explicitly - so maybe we should address that separately. Anyway, I'm thrilled to have contributed to some extent and therefore now have gotten a username. Thank you. Vendrov 07:38, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
- Hey Vendrov - Glad you're working on this. I had to take off a couple of months for personal stuff but am getting back in the game again. Will see you around, and I'll start working on this page again. -- lquilter 19:05, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
- I think we need some mention of notable works here. For example, "Left Hand of Darkness" gets no mention here or in SiSF. Rodparkes 01:32, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
The image used with the caption "typically masculine SF hero" is a guy in a blouse, a beret, and a skirt? This looks like a joke. Surely a more representative image of male masculinity can be found. DreamGuy ( talk) 16:03, 18 June 2009 (UTC)
- I think you are showing your cultural bias. Kilts are extremely masculine in some places, as are Jack boots. It was chosen as being both free and being a depiction of the undeniably über-masculine Heinlein character.
Yob
Mod 14:48, 20 June 2009 (UTC)
- There are much better images that could be used to demonstrate that caption. My "cultural bias" is the same as the overwhelming majority of people looking at this article. Someone dressed like a schoolgirl shouldn't be used as an example of "typical" masculinity. DreamGuy ( talk) 17:06, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
It seems to kind of stop at the 1970s. I think there's been some advances or at least alterations since then. There's been Kathryn Janeway, Susan Ivanova, Max Guevara, Kira Nerys, Laura Roslin, Turanga Leela, and Dana Scully. Not saying those are all unqualified successes or universally positive or whatever, but their a bit different than just hired-guns for unseen men or secretaries.-- T. Anthony ( talk) 11:16, 22 June 2009 (UTC)
And many more. The article looks unfinished, and curiously, it stops right at the time when SF TV became a lot more gender-balanced and when many strong female characters appeared on various SF TV series. As if the writer of this was more interested in criticizing the times when SF was male-dominated, and assumed that people knew that things got better in the last couple of decades. That makes the article look very weird and incomplete. Someone should definitely complete it with a review of the prominent female characters in SF series of the 1980s, 1990s and 2000s. Nightandday ( talk) 12:40, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
How is
Buffy The Vampire Slayer not mentioned? --
24.60.176.100 (
talk) 13:33, 3 April 2011 (UTC)
In the Chakat Universe there are no less than four genders. Here is a list of them in order of prevalence:
¤ Female (she, her).
¤ Male (he, him, his).
¤ Simultaneous hermaphrodite (shi, hir).
¤ Sequential hermaphrodite (hy, hym, hys).
There are three species consisting entirely of simultaneous hermaphrodites. These are chakat, stellar foxtaur and faleshkarti. All members these species look like women but with additional male genitals. An unknown number of other species have three genders: male, female and simultaneous hermaphrodite. Such hermaphrodites may have female or male secondary sex characteristics or a mixture of both. There is even a human who is a fully functional hermaphrodite. She was born as a girl and grew up feeling that there was something missing in hir. As a young adult shi realised that shi was mentally a simultaneous hermaphrodite. With a combination of sex reassignment surgery and gene therapy shi become the first human ever with fully functional male and female genitals. Shi still looks like a woman but with male genitals placed in front of the female ones.
The only species of sequential hermaphrodites is the skunktaur. In this species all children look like boys until puberty when they acquire the ability to change between male and female primary and secondary sex characteristics. Typically, they change sex characteristics voluntary every few weeks. However, pregnant skuntaurs have to remain female-looking until the child is born. The only other case of a sequential hermaphrodite is a anthropomorphised stoat who can change sex characteristics at will. (In the Chakat Universe there are several hundred species of anthropomorphised land mammals.) Hy was secretly created to suite as a sex slave. Please note that in the Stellar Federation – where most of the stories take place – slavery is banned and prostitution is strictly regulated. Only people with pathologically high sex drive is allowed to work as prostitutes and even they are not forced to have more sex than they can enjoy.
The stories also deals with numerous other topics including polyamorous relations, genetically engineered people, first contact with alien species, inter-species marriage and reproduction, and even teleportation. However, technology is only a part of the backdrop and is not explained more than necessary. Sex is an integrated part of many of the stories focusing on relation between adults. After all, they are written for an adult audience.
2009-06-23 Lena Synnerholm, Märsta, Sweden.
In the comics section, recommend adding something on the Ooku manga series. I would have done this but the comics section in this article doesn't really deal directly with speculative fiction/comics but more with just gender considerations in comics. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.183.71.67 ( talk) 08:53, 13 November 2012 (UTC)
- Left Hand of Darkness U K LeGuin - unstable gender
- Gaia (novel) - 4 gendered centaurs
All the best:
Rich
Farmbrough, 22:32, 20 October 2014 (UTC).
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to one external link on
Gender in speculative fiction. Please take a moment to review
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Hi @ Snikrdoodle91: -- I see that you're in a class, and that's exciting -- I'm delighted that classes are looking at these kinds of articles and bias issues in Wikipedia. So, first, thanks for your contributions.
Now, some comments, because I give feedback to writers, among other things. I think that some of your edits are not reading the same way that you perhaps intend them to. For instance:
- You changed "The portrayal of women, or more broadly, the portrayal of gender in the speculative genres," to "The portrayal of women, or female-identified characters in the speculative genres". Here, you're substituting "female-identified characters" for "portrayal of gender". These two phrases are not substitutable, really. I think you perhaps mean to add "female-identified characters" to "women" to expand that phrase, or perhaps to substitute for the phrase "women". But "portrayal of gender" is a separate meaning. You've done that again further in the paragraph ("understandings and portrayals of women, men, and sexuality" converted to "understandings and portrayals of gender and sexuality") and again, I think these are semantically distinct. It works better in the second instance, but I think it's problematic in the first. I'd suggest something like this for the first sentence:
- "The portrayal of women (or female-identified characters) and, more broadly, the depiction of gender in the speculative genres ..."
That provides a little more context for the use of "female-identified" instead of "women".
- General point about "female-identified". What's your thinking about incorporating this term? You have done it sometimes, but not other times, and I can't see a pattern, really. I would argue that "female-identified" is appropriate sometimes to clarify and expand, but substituting the term for "women" in all or most cases seems unnecessarily lengthy and jargonistic. That's not what you're doing, obviously, but how are you deciding which term is appropriate?
- You then switch to "feminine-identified" which is yet a different term.
- This sentence, "As more and more readers and fans of science fiction become female identified" - is quite awkward. Are you meaning it to read, "As more fans are transitioning" ...? Or are you meaning it as the demographics of fandom shift ...?
- You've also capitalized a number of words sort of randomly in the middle of sentences -- "Speculative fiction", "Authors".
- The examples of texts (Dick & Tolkien) you've added don't actually have any content about the characters, so they're not really helpful to the reader of this encyclopedia article -- literally hundreds or thousands of texts could be listed; so why choose these? Are they exemplary in some fashion? Groundbreaking?
- And lastly, I'd like you to really look at the paragraph you added, and please consider how your sentences actually add substantive examples or points, rather than generally re-stating the point of this section.
Hope these comments are helpful as you think about writing.
Lquilter ( talk) 11:09, 6 October 2017 (UTC)
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:
Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. — Community Tech bot ( talk) 00:11, 23 June 2020 (UTC)
It should be noted that 'Gender in speculative fiction is, the topic umbrella that I'll be tackling in my wiki.edu class. And as such, the following bibliography is of a source that will be used to supplement the article that I will contribute towards, in other words, this article here.
Sophie Jacquot (2010) The Paradox of Gender Mainstreaming: Unanticipated Effects of New Modes of Governance in the Gender Equality Domain, West European Politics, 33:1, 118-135, DOI: 10.1080/01402380903354163
With the source that I've found, the main argument it has is the form and significance of gender mainstreaming and introduces a new perspective that challenges the current policies of Europe's government involving the 'Community Method.' The key issue that the article introduces is the challenges that gender mainstreaming against European modes of government involving their classic methods of societal integration. Furthermore, this article touches upon the impact of genre mainstreaming on the development of gender equality policy. The analytical methodologies/methods or lenses it uses to approach gender mainstreaming is through the analysis of Societal methodologies such as the Community Method, the Open Method of Coordination, and other methods such as sector-specific methodologies, control lists, and formation programs.This article concludes that gender mainstreaming challenges the conventional understanding of institutionalization. As such, the challenges this presents are more often than not a cognitive dilemma. In this manner, the marginalization in certain industries such as the acting industry provides a better picture as to why there is a power redistribution amongst actors and the modification of access to the gender equality sector. Though the article states that policy does not change as promptly as one may like, the beginning of policy change such as gender equality must be done through the utilization of policy instruments. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cvelmonte ( talk • contribs) 05:38, 2 March 2021 (UTC)