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After some consideration, I have reverted an edit by Snowded who has described my edits on my talk page as "more colloquial, less encyclopaedic" yet feels "pub" is preferable to "public house". I completely disagree that I made it less encyclopedic. The article shows signs of having been written by multiple editors, lacks coherence which a copyedit would at least go some way to addressing. The paragraph about the pronunciation of his name is frankly a mess and jumps about all over the place. If it is reverted summarily again I will conclude the regular editors prefer the article in this state. The article has too many superfluous words and phrases, and is quite contradictory, "He shied away from school" doesn't tally with the quote, "Never was there such a dame school as ours, so firm and kind and smelling of galoshes". Flitterby ( talk) 09:37, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
I think aiming for plain English would be an improvement. Flitterby ( talk) 13:10, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone have any cites or webpages that back up the claims in the infobox that Thomas is influenced by these: Arthur Rimbaud, D. H. Lawrence, Welsh Mythology, James Joyce, John Donne. In my biographies, none of these are mentioned. FruitMonkey ( talk) 19:39, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Do we have a quote on this? Ferris reports him as a strong athlete, "He ran in school races and cross country for years", at the age of 12 won an under-15s mile race (although with a 100yrd head start due to his age and size) which is backed up with a clipping (printed in the book) from the press that Thomas carried in his wallet for years. Even if he did suffer from asthma, do we think he was sickly? FruitMonkey ( talk) 23:20, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I have reverted a set of edits by Flitterby. The edits remove a lot of salient material and is taking us further from GA status not helping us to move towards it. To pick up a few points: "Thomas's last collection Collected Poems, 1934–1952" is changed to "Thomas's last anthology Collected Poems, 1934–1952". It isn't an anthology. Non-grammatical sentences are constructed "Their daughter, Aeronwy Thomas-Ellis, on 3 March 1943 (d. 2009). " "He was ill and had a history of blackouts and heart problems, he used an inhaler in New York to help his breathing." "The anthology was published by Fortune Press, in part a vanity publisher that did not pay its writers and expected them to buy a certain number of copies themselves." This sentence is changed to " Fortune Press, a vanity publisher". This is just plainly inaccurate and diverges from the source. The press was well respected for some of its publications. What is held to be 'simplifying' is changing the meaning, clouding the clarity and hacking the style. There are too many problems to go through them all. I do think that for a new editor, it is worth backing up and listening to concerns that have been raised. We are aiming to write a great, detailed and accurate article, specifically in an encyclopaedic tone. This is explicitly a formal tone. WP:TONE has more details on this. Please appreciate that all the editors are volunteering their time with the single intention of improving the article. Thank you. Span ( talk) 20:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Goodness me what a tirade. There is nothing "great" about your reversion, I never see my work as finished as you obviously see yours. I was explicitly advised to be bold. You obviously prefer the article as it is. My tone is neutral and formal, I am encyclopedic not long-winded. I too am an editor volunteering my time and am certainly not making it worse. Flitterby ( talk) 21:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
It's a tirade from where I'm sitting and the only editor demanding I "back up" (whatever is meant by that) is Spanglej. I have read what you have written but feel you could have corrected rather than summarily undone my edits. Your photographs of the house are no more evidence of a "red brick" dwelling than the photograph. This is my understanding of red brick. There might be a reliable source but the visual evidence rather disproves it. Still it's a good example of not to believe everything you read on wikipedia. I have taken the time to read disruptive editing, rather a threatening way to treat a fellow editor who is volunteering timre to improve an article rather than leave it in its current state. Flitterby ( talk) 23:16, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
The article from The Guardian is a bit of a concern for me. It is a mythologised idea of how Dylan and Caitlin met rather than how biographers have suggested it occured. I have reference that they met in the Wheatsheaf, but no where do I have a reference to it being full of smoke, or that Dylan Thomas walked over to Caitlin. If anything it would be Caitlin being introduced to Thomas by Augustus John, or she making herself known to him through John's name dropping of Thomas (there are some sources who argue that John wasn't actually there when they met). The writer is making up her own romanticized image of how this meeting occured, and although Ferris does state that Thomas spoke to Caitlin with his head on her knee, I have no proposal of marriage in two Thomas biographies or two Macnamara autobiographies. I'm not happy taking this article as read. FruitMonkey ( talk) 19:55, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
The description in Vanessa Thorpe's Guardian article is framed thus: ".. a central part of the Bohemian mythology that surrounds the memory of.. " so even she admits it's a myth. As for Arifa Akbar - she says that DMT died of alcohol poisoning - more popular myth. So much for WP:RS! I can't help but feel a marriage proposal on the first meeting was somehow "made for cinema" - why should any of the biographers know when any proposal was made? Martinevans123 ( talk) 20:54, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
FM, The party is mentioned in The days of Dylan Thomas by Bill Read p84. Journalists often work via interviews and with primary material. Thomas was so tied in with the film, theatre and literature scenes on both sides of the Atlantic that he turns up lots of biographies about other people too. I think it likely that major sources clash on their telling of events, especially around his death. I suggest it's best to outline in the article when and if biogs differ rather than making out there is one clear and definitive narrative. It seems clear that this isn't the case. Span ( talk) 21:51, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Two influences I would like to discuss. First, Bob Dylan. Is he really an influence, or a guy that took the spelling of his name as it looked cool. Second, the Beat Generation. Kenneth Rexroth, was a friend and admirer, but influenced? Ginsberg wrote about meeting Thomas in New York in April 1952 in Journals: Early Fifties, Early Sixties, which fits in perfectly time wise, and he goes on about how he was a kindred soul. Also I've read how Thomas' performance poetry was an influence to the Beats. Any thoughts. FruitMonkey ( talk) 21:34, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
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Reviewer: SilkTork ( talk · contribs) 23:12, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
I'll start reading over the next few days and then begin to make comments. I am normally a slow reviewer - if that is likely to be a problem, please let me know now. I tend to directly do copy-editing and minor improvements, though if there is a lot of work needed I may suggest getting a copy-editor. Anything more significant than minor improvements I will raise here. I see the reviewer's role as collaborative and collegiate, so I welcome discussion regarding interpretation of the criteria. SilkTork ✔Tea time 23:12, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
*Layout. The List of works is split across several sections, and mixed with Further reading.
SilkTork
✔Tea time 16:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
LAST POEMS: The five poems that follow Fern Hill in Thomas' Collected Poems, together with the Author's Prologue to this volume, constitute the only separate pieces, since the appearance in 1946 of Deaths and Entrances, which the poet has wished to preserve.
The frequency of composition has therefore been lowered to an average of one poem per year. But it would be difficult to say whether this fact signifies a diminution of poetic capacity. During this time Thomas was engaged in much other work; some purely commercial and some of literary importance. Besides lecturing in America, he produced a filmscript The Doctor and the Devils, a verse-and-prose play for broadcasting entitled Under Milk Wood, as well as further miscellaneous writings.
The six poems which remain from these years are substantial compositions, and longer than most of Thomas' pieces. What these facts seem to indicate is, that while inspiration of a worthwhile order came less seldom to the poet, its duration and strength--when it did visit him--were of considerable proportions.
— Dylan Thomas, Derek Stanford, page 129
This has developed very well over the past month, and much of my concerns have been addressed. This is an accessible, useful and reliable guide to Dylan Thomas and his work. There are still areas to further work on, but that is part of ongoing development, and the article as it stands now meets the Good Article criteria. I am still a little uncomfortable about the use of the lead image, though it does appear to meet our free use criteria. Two of the most iconic and famous images of Thomas are the first public reading of Under Milk Wood (the one with the fag in his mouth as he stands at a lectern pointing with a pen), and the one of him and Caitlin in Browns Hotel in Laugharne - I've not seen a copyright notice on either of these images, and it may be worth thinking about using one of those.
I see that New Quay now has a mention. For further development toward comprehensiveness, a summary of other places where he lived might be useful. Public perception appears to be that he lived in Swansea and Laugharne only - though he did live in various other places, including Oxford, and had some short periods of living in Italy (where Caitlin returned after his death). The readings in America and his death there are significant topics - though I feel that coverage of these events tends to dominate this article, and it would be useful to have a stand alone article on the tours and the death, and to move the bulk of the material to such an article, leaving behind an accessible summary per WP:Summary style. The external links section is very long and appears to contain links that do not meet WP:EL, so that needs attention.
Well done to everyone involved in working on the article. And keep up the good work in driving it forward toward Featured Article. SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:36, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
The opening of the article has been challenged by SilkTork, who has graciously picked up this article for GA review. For a starter the cite accompanying the statement does not back up the statement. The only book I have that explicitly uses the words "one of the most innovative English language poets of the 20th century" is the Welsh Academy Encyclopedia of Wales ...and I don't blame them for doing so. Is it a case that we just write what more general books state (not biographers) rather than giving an opinion, of 'greatest', 'most' and 'important'. What is certain is that the critics are divided.
Any views on changing the opening line to reflect some up these statements, or keep to the status quo? FruitMonkey ( talk) 12:01, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Do not go gentle into that good night says: "Thomas watched his father, formerly in the Army.. " but there is no source to support this claim. So I have added a when? tag there. If the army connection is true, one might perhaps (more) expect to find it mentioned in this article. I wonder does anyone have a supporting source? Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 18:33, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Shouldn't the dates of birth and death of Thomas's children be supported with reliable sources? In the text? In the info box? Or in both? Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 14:20, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The last sentence of the first paragraph of this article reads, "He became popular in his lifetime, and remained so after his death, partly because of his larger than life character and his reputation for drinking to excess." This is not a direct quote, and if you look at the actual text that this is taken from (an Introductory essay), this is not what the author actually wrote.
However, the author is somewhat dismissive of Thomas, and his essay is pretty personal. He essentially says, I knew him a little and I didn't like him. It's extremely subjective, and with or without a reference tag, I think it should go. Still, if it stays, I think it should more accurately reflect what the author actually wrote. Any thoughts? Jpcohen ( talk) 15:46, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
From 1941 to 1946 Nicolson was on the Board of Governors of the BBC. Here's an extract from his diary entry for 12 September 1941: [11] (from Literature belongs to gentlemen by Peter Womack ( Critical Quarterly Volume 55, Issue 3, pages 26–43, October 2013). I think this quote might deserve inclusion in the article! Martinevans123 ( talk) 21:13, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Our guidance is to avoid using the Northern hemisphere's seasons as time markers as not everybody lives in the part of the Northern hemisphere which experiences seasons. Instead we use months which mean the same to everybody, regardless of where they live. If the month is unknown we can use "early", "mid-", "late" which is also unambiguous. The exception if if the season has actual significance outside of parochial laziness; the autumn harvest, a summer holiday, a winter battle etc. -- John ( talk) 13:25, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Is it worth making a point of the pronunciation of his first name? Many people insist on pronouncing it the Welsh way (DULL-an), but I'm sure he said on several occasions it should be "DILL-an". – Pee Jay 08:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
The Beeb has published an article questioning the severity of his problem -including casting doubts on his medical treatment. This isn't my subject but I'd be delighted if someone else used it. JRPG ( talk) 12:11, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Should mention be made of Thomas' use of visual poetry, especially "Vision and Prayer" (November 19440: [12]? There is quite a detailed study of the poem, by Matthias Bauer, here. Martinevans123 ( talk) 23:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
Is it true that his death was actually due to his heavy smoking, and not an overconsumption of alcohol? ( 217.42.28.60 ( talk) 16:16, 15 May 2016 (UTC))
Should be areference to Bob Dylan(who[in his memoir]called Thomas an influence and the reason he changed his name from Zimmerman)?
I left a message on the talk page of the editor in question stating my opinion. Some of the information, maybe about made friendships is valid. But others, mostly uncited are not. How he approached an egg is not really important to this article or to the person as it could well be apocryphal or Thomas pulling someone's leg. Does it help us understand Thomas in a better light? Not in my opinion. I find most of this addition trivial. FruitMonkey ( talk) 21:53, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
The story about Thomas and Warner taking trips to the cinema, including the egg incident are all cited: p. 120 of Lycett's biography. It's an interesting anecdote, and is the sort of thing that I think would get people more interested in checking out primary sources. I have now also added an additional reference from, and note about how this incident is related to his mother's coddling of him, mentioned previously in the article.
Yes, Nancy was born in September 1906: [15], so she would have been almost exactly eight years older than Dylan, not nine. It seems that Nancy "was very motherly ... very motherly to him" and "... she was very fond of him, in an indulgent way.” Here's another source about Nancy, but not sure if she deserves greater menrtion in the article? Martinevans123 ( talk) 09:54, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
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The article references the Paul Ferris work on DT, citing 1989 as its year of publication. I recall reading the Ferris book in 1982. Was there a later reworking of it? Hanoi Road ( talk) 10:45, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
For example in Laugharne Notable Residents a photo of the subject appears when hovering over this inserted link John_Powell_(judge) but not when DT's link is inserted Dylan_Thomas How can the article format be edited to achieve this? I've had a couple of trial attempts at modification but only generated fierce warnings on the previews! Sirjohnperrot ( talk) 11:42, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
I've selected one but here are two of many other possibilities for the infobox if the current image in there is switched to the top - comments invited. Apologies for my multiple minor edits, as a novice the only way I found to check whether the hover image was displaying on other pages was to save the changes with each attempt. There must be a way of using the infobox image but I couldn't find it and the properties of the original pic prevented it working in the hover image elsewhere. No idea why otherwise I would have used it and kept the caption unchanged. Sirjohnperrot ( talk) 10:15, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can , contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse. |
Sirjohnperrot You seem to be talking to jmcgnh and verbcatcher. You just need to use the {{ ping}} template for that, not the "help me" template. I dream of horses (talk page) (Contribs) Remember to notify me after replying off my talk page. 16:49, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
[[#Corporation§Corporation|Corporation]]
you'd want [[{{PAGENAME}}#Corporation|Corporation]]
or [[Laugharne#Charter|Charter]]
. (The use of PAGENAME only works on the page itself.)As for the photos, taken after 1923, they would clearly still be subject to copyright, so - even if they are available on the web somewhere - they are not eligible for uploading to Wikimedia Commons. — jmcgnh (talk) (contribs) 21:08, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
[[#Corporation§Corporation|Corporation]]
you'd want [[{{PAGENAME}}#Corporation|Corporation]]
or [[Laugharne#Charter|Charter]]
. (The use of PAGENAME only works on the page itself.)
Sirjohnperrot (
talk) 22:54, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
The
Laugharne page no longer has sections named 'Corporation' or 'Charter', so that's why the section links do not go anywhere - the anchors they are looking to find no longer exist. You can add those anchors with {{
anchor|target}}
or you can change the links to go to the current name of the section.
One more quibble is that the 'Laugharne' in the 'Laugharne Corporation' section header is possibly redundant. It's an arguable point, but I think I prefer to see it the way it currently is. — jmcgnh (talk) (contribs) 23:15, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
The article states he was born in 'the respectable area of the Uplands'. There's no citation for this, this is surely just an opinion. I assume the author of those words means Uplands was respectable when Thomas lived there. I suggest removing the opinion from the article. 51.9.104.161 ( talk) 18:29, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
I'm concerned this section is approaching WP:TRIVIA territory, broaching WP:UNDUE and WP:BALASP, and isn't consistent with WP:EPSTYLE (particularly in regards to "Inappropriate lists").
I wasn't able to find any significant scholarly discussion or coverage on his walking trails aside from promotional material on tourism websites. I assume this is why the section currently lacks in-line citations with only notes and external links (I've added templates to identify the claims that require verification, which is all of them tbh)? The introduction is pretty vague and sounds like WP:OR; there doesn't seem to be a clear explanation as to what the bulleted items actually are, and if they in fact form a coherent list? If the necessary sources exist, perhaps there is a way to incorporate information on Thomas's walking habits, or the significance of walking in his work, but I'm not sure this section has legs, or if it's the best vehicle for the information (puns intended). I was hesitant to delete it outright, but perhaps WP:BRD is the best move here. Happy to engage in discussion about how to improve the section if an editor would like to reinstate it! Goodlucklemonpig ( talk) 22:15, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
What is a ' Columbine shooter' please? Sdgard ( talk) 23:36, 16 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
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Dylan Thomas has been listed as one of the Language and literature good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
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After some consideration, I have reverted an edit by Snowded who has described my edits on my talk page as "more colloquial, less encyclopaedic" yet feels "pub" is preferable to "public house". I completely disagree that I made it less encyclopedic. The article shows signs of having been written by multiple editors, lacks coherence which a copyedit would at least go some way to addressing. The paragraph about the pronunciation of his name is frankly a mess and jumps about all over the place. If it is reverted summarily again I will conclude the regular editors prefer the article in this state. The article has too many superfluous words and phrases, and is quite contradictory, "He shied away from school" doesn't tally with the quote, "Never was there such a dame school as ours, so firm and kind and smelling of galoshes". Flitterby ( talk) 09:37, 15 July 2012 (UTC)
I think aiming for plain English would be an improvement. Flitterby ( talk) 13:10, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Does anyone have any cites or webpages that back up the claims in the infobox that Thomas is influenced by these: Arthur Rimbaud, D. H. Lawrence, Welsh Mythology, James Joyce, John Donne. In my biographies, none of these are mentioned. FruitMonkey ( talk) 19:39, 16 July 2012 (UTC)
Do we have a quote on this? Ferris reports him as a strong athlete, "He ran in school races and cross country for years", at the age of 12 won an under-15s mile race (although with a 100yrd head start due to his age and size) which is backed up with a clipping (printed in the book) from the press that Thomas carried in his wallet for years. Even if he did suffer from asthma, do we think he was sickly? FruitMonkey ( talk) 23:20, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
I have reverted a set of edits by Flitterby. The edits remove a lot of salient material and is taking us further from GA status not helping us to move towards it. To pick up a few points: "Thomas's last collection Collected Poems, 1934–1952" is changed to "Thomas's last anthology Collected Poems, 1934–1952". It isn't an anthology. Non-grammatical sentences are constructed "Their daughter, Aeronwy Thomas-Ellis, on 3 March 1943 (d. 2009). " "He was ill and had a history of blackouts and heart problems, he used an inhaler in New York to help his breathing." "The anthology was published by Fortune Press, in part a vanity publisher that did not pay its writers and expected them to buy a certain number of copies themselves." This sentence is changed to " Fortune Press, a vanity publisher". This is just plainly inaccurate and diverges from the source. The press was well respected for some of its publications. What is held to be 'simplifying' is changing the meaning, clouding the clarity and hacking the style. There are too many problems to go through them all. I do think that for a new editor, it is worth backing up and listening to concerns that have been raised. We are aiming to write a great, detailed and accurate article, specifically in an encyclopaedic tone. This is explicitly a formal tone. WP:TONE has more details on this. Please appreciate that all the editors are volunteering their time with the single intention of improving the article. Thank you. Span ( talk) 20:58, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Goodness me what a tirade. There is nothing "great" about your reversion, I never see my work as finished as you obviously see yours. I was explicitly advised to be bold. You obviously prefer the article as it is. My tone is neutral and formal, I am encyclopedic not long-winded. I too am an editor volunteering my time and am certainly not making it worse. Flitterby ( talk) 21:09, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
It's a tirade from where I'm sitting and the only editor demanding I "back up" (whatever is meant by that) is Spanglej. I have read what you have written but feel you could have corrected rather than summarily undone my edits. Your photographs of the house are no more evidence of a "red brick" dwelling than the photograph. This is my understanding of red brick. There might be a reliable source but the visual evidence rather disproves it. Still it's a good example of not to believe everything you read on wikipedia. I have taken the time to read disruptive editing, rather a threatening way to treat a fellow editor who is volunteering timre to improve an article rather than leave it in its current state. Flitterby ( talk) 23:16, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
The article from The Guardian is a bit of a concern for me. It is a mythologised idea of how Dylan and Caitlin met rather than how biographers have suggested it occured. I have reference that they met in the Wheatsheaf, but no where do I have a reference to it being full of smoke, or that Dylan Thomas walked over to Caitlin. If anything it would be Caitlin being introduced to Thomas by Augustus John, or she making herself known to him through John's name dropping of Thomas (there are some sources who argue that John wasn't actually there when they met). The writer is making up her own romanticized image of how this meeting occured, and although Ferris does state that Thomas spoke to Caitlin with his head on her knee, I have no proposal of marriage in two Thomas biographies or two Macnamara autobiographies. I'm not happy taking this article as read. FruitMonkey ( talk) 19:55, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
The description in Vanessa Thorpe's Guardian article is framed thus: ".. a central part of the Bohemian mythology that surrounds the memory of.. " so even she admits it's a myth. As for Arifa Akbar - she says that DMT died of alcohol poisoning - more popular myth. So much for WP:RS! I can't help but feel a marriage proposal on the first meeting was somehow "made for cinema" - why should any of the biographers know when any proposal was made? Martinevans123 ( talk) 20:54, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
FM, The party is mentioned in The days of Dylan Thomas by Bill Read p84. Journalists often work via interviews and with primary material. Thomas was so tied in with the film, theatre and literature scenes on both sides of the Atlantic that he turns up lots of biographies about other people too. I think it likely that major sources clash on their telling of events, especially around his death. I suggest it's best to outline in the article when and if biogs differ rather than making out there is one clear and definitive narrative. It seems clear that this isn't the case. Span ( talk) 21:51, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
Two influences I would like to discuss. First, Bob Dylan. Is he really an influence, or a guy that took the spelling of his name as it looked cool. Second, the Beat Generation. Kenneth Rexroth, was a friend and admirer, but influenced? Ginsberg wrote about meeting Thomas in New York in April 1952 in Journals: Early Fifties, Early Sixties, which fits in perfectly time wise, and he goes on about how he was a kindred soul. Also I've read how Thomas' performance poetry was an influence to the Beats. Any thoughts. FruitMonkey ( talk) 21:34, 31 July 2012 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: SilkTork ( talk · contribs) 23:12, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
I'll start reading over the next few days and then begin to make comments. I am normally a slow reviewer - if that is likely to be a problem, please let me know now. I tend to directly do copy-editing and minor improvements, though if there is a lot of work needed I may suggest getting a copy-editor. Anything more significant than minor improvements I will raise here. I see the reviewer's role as collaborative and collegiate, so I welcome discussion regarding interpretation of the criteria. SilkTork ✔Tea time 23:12, 1 August 2012 (UTC)
GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria
*Layout. The List of works is split across several sections, and mixed with Further reading.
SilkTork
✔Tea time 16:44, 6 August 2012 (UTC)
LAST POEMS: The five poems that follow Fern Hill in Thomas' Collected Poems, together with the Author's Prologue to this volume, constitute the only separate pieces, since the appearance in 1946 of Deaths and Entrances, which the poet has wished to preserve.
The frequency of composition has therefore been lowered to an average of one poem per year. But it would be difficult to say whether this fact signifies a diminution of poetic capacity. During this time Thomas was engaged in much other work; some purely commercial and some of literary importance. Besides lecturing in America, he produced a filmscript The Doctor and the Devils, a verse-and-prose play for broadcasting entitled Under Milk Wood, as well as further miscellaneous writings.
The six poems which remain from these years are substantial compositions, and longer than most of Thomas' pieces. What these facts seem to indicate is, that while inspiration of a worthwhile order came less seldom to the poet, its duration and strength--when it did visit him--were of considerable proportions.
— Dylan Thomas, Derek Stanford, page 129
This has developed very well over the past month, and much of my concerns have been addressed. This is an accessible, useful and reliable guide to Dylan Thomas and his work. There are still areas to further work on, but that is part of ongoing development, and the article as it stands now meets the Good Article criteria. I am still a little uncomfortable about the use of the lead image, though it does appear to meet our free use criteria. Two of the most iconic and famous images of Thomas are the first public reading of Under Milk Wood (the one with the fag in his mouth as he stands at a lectern pointing with a pen), and the one of him and Caitlin in Browns Hotel in Laugharne - I've not seen a copyright notice on either of these images, and it may be worth thinking about using one of those.
I see that New Quay now has a mention. For further development toward comprehensiveness, a summary of other places where he lived might be useful. Public perception appears to be that he lived in Swansea and Laugharne only - though he did live in various other places, including Oxford, and had some short periods of living in Italy (where Caitlin returned after his death). The readings in America and his death there are significant topics - though I feel that coverage of these events tends to dominate this article, and it would be useful to have a stand alone article on the tours and the death, and to move the bulk of the material to such an article, leaving behind an accessible summary per WP:Summary style. The external links section is very long and appears to contain links that do not meet WP:EL, so that needs attention.
Well done to everyone involved in working on the article. And keep up the good work in driving it forward toward Featured Article. SilkTork ✔Tea time 20:36, 30 August 2012 (UTC)
The opening of the article has been challenged by SilkTork, who has graciously picked up this article for GA review. For a starter the cite accompanying the statement does not back up the statement. The only book I have that explicitly uses the words "one of the most innovative English language poets of the 20th century" is the Welsh Academy Encyclopedia of Wales ...and I don't blame them for doing so. Is it a case that we just write what more general books state (not biographers) rather than giving an opinion, of 'greatest', 'most' and 'important'. What is certain is that the critics are divided.
Any views on changing the opening line to reflect some up these statements, or keep to the status quo? FruitMonkey ( talk) 12:01, 2 August 2012 (UTC)
Do not go gentle into that good night says: "Thomas watched his father, formerly in the Army.. " but there is no source to support this claim. So I have added a when? tag there. If the army connection is true, one might perhaps (more) expect to find it mentioned in this article. I wonder does anyone have a supporting source? Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 18:33, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
Shouldn't the dates of birth and death of Thomas's children be supported with reliable sources? In the text? In the info box? Or in both? Thanks. Martinevans123 ( talk) 14:20, 17 December 2012 (UTC)
The last sentence of the first paragraph of this article reads, "He became popular in his lifetime, and remained so after his death, partly because of his larger than life character and his reputation for drinking to excess." This is not a direct quote, and if you look at the actual text that this is taken from (an Introductory essay), this is not what the author actually wrote.
However, the author is somewhat dismissive of Thomas, and his essay is pretty personal. He essentially says, I knew him a little and I didn't like him. It's extremely subjective, and with or without a reference tag, I think it should go. Still, if it stays, I think it should more accurately reflect what the author actually wrote. Any thoughts? Jpcohen ( talk) 15:46, 15 August 2013 (UTC)
From 1941 to 1946 Nicolson was on the Board of Governors of the BBC. Here's an extract from his diary entry for 12 September 1941: [11] (from Literature belongs to gentlemen by Peter Womack ( Critical Quarterly Volume 55, Issue 3, pages 26–43, October 2013). I think this quote might deserve inclusion in the article! Martinevans123 ( talk) 21:13, 22 October 2013 (UTC)
Our guidance is to avoid using the Northern hemisphere's seasons as time markers as not everybody lives in the part of the Northern hemisphere which experiences seasons. Instead we use months which mean the same to everybody, regardless of where they live. If the month is unknown we can use "early", "mid-", "late" which is also unambiguous. The exception if if the season has actual significance outside of parochial laziness; the autumn harvest, a summer holiday, a winter battle etc. -- John ( talk) 13:25, 22 November 2014 (UTC)
Is it worth making a point of the pronunciation of his first name? Many people insist on pronouncing it the Welsh way (DULL-an), but I'm sure he said on several occasions it should be "DILL-an". – Pee Jay 08:30, 18 August 2015 (UTC)
The Beeb has published an article questioning the severity of his problem -including casting doubts on his medical treatment. This isn't my subject but I'd be delighted if someone else used it. JRPG ( talk) 12:11, 4 November 2015 (UTC)
Should mention be made of Thomas' use of visual poetry, especially "Vision and Prayer" (November 19440: [12]? There is quite a detailed study of the poem, by Matthias Bauer, here. Martinevans123 ( talk) 23:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
Is it true that his death was actually due to his heavy smoking, and not an overconsumption of alcohol? ( 217.42.28.60 ( talk) 16:16, 15 May 2016 (UTC))
Should be areference to Bob Dylan(who[in his memoir]called Thomas an influence and the reason he changed his name from Zimmerman)?
I left a message on the talk page of the editor in question stating my opinion. Some of the information, maybe about made friendships is valid. But others, mostly uncited are not. How he approached an egg is not really important to this article or to the person as it could well be apocryphal or Thomas pulling someone's leg. Does it help us understand Thomas in a better light? Not in my opinion. I find most of this addition trivial. FruitMonkey ( talk) 21:53, 20 August 2016 (UTC)
The story about Thomas and Warner taking trips to the cinema, including the egg incident are all cited: p. 120 of Lycett's biography. It's an interesting anecdote, and is the sort of thing that I think would get people more interested in checking out primary sources. I have now also added an additional reference from, and note about how this incident is related to his mother's coddling of him, mentioned previously in the article.
Yes, Nancy was born in September 1906: [15], so she would have been almost exactly eight years older than Dylan, not nine. It seems that Nancy "was very motherly ... very motherly to him" and "... she was very fond of him, in an indulgent way.” Here's another source about Nancy, but not sure if she deserves greater menrtion in the article? Martinevans123 ( talk) 09:54, 5 November 2016 (UTC)
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The article references the Paul Ferris work on DT, citing 1989 as its year of publication. I recall reading the Ferris book in 1982. Was there a later reworking of it? Hanoi Road ( talk) 10:45, 5 December 2019 (UTC)
For example in Laugharne Notable Residents a photo of the subject appears when hovering over this inserted link John_Powell_(judge) but not when DT's link is inserted Dylan_Thomas How can the article format be edited to achieve this? I've had a couple of trial attempts at modification but only generated fierce warnings on the previews! Sirjohnperrot ( talk) 11:42, 7 June 2020 (UTC)
I've selected one but here are two of many other possibilities for the infobox if the current image in there is switched to the top - comments invited. Apologies for my multiple minor edits, as a novice the only way I found to check whether the hover image was displaying on other pages was to save the changes with each attempt. There must be a way of using the infobox image but I couldn't find it and the properties of the original pic prevented it working in the hover image elsewhere. No idea why otherwise I would have used it and kept the caption unchanged. Sirjohnperrot ( talk) 10:15, 10 June 2020 (UTC)
This help request has been answered. If you need more help, you can , contact the responding user(s) directly on their user talk page, or consider visiting the Teahouse. |
Sirjohnperrot You seem to be talking to jmcgnh and verbcatcher. You just need to use the {{ ping}} template for that, not the "help me" template. I dream of horses (talk page) (Contribs) Remember to notify me after replying off my talk page. 16:49, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
[[#Corporation§Corporation|Corporation]]
you'd want [[{{PAGENAME}}#Corporation|Corporation]]
or [[Laugharne#Charter|Charter]]
. (The use of PAGENAME only works on the page itself.)As for the photos, taken after 1923, they would clearly still be subject to copyright, so - even if they are available on the web somewhere - they are not eligible for uploading to Wikimedia Commons. — jmcgnh (talk) (contribs) 21:08, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
[[#Corporation§Corporation|Corporation]]
you'd want [[{{PAGENAME}}#Corporation|Corporation]]
or [[Laugharne#Charter|Charter]]
. (The use of PAGENAME only works on the page itself.)
Sirjohnperrot (
talk) 22:54, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
The
Laugharne page no longer has sections named 'Corporation' or 'Charter', so that's why the section links do not go anywhere - the anchors they are looking to find no longer exist. You can add those anchors with {{
anchor|target}}
or you can change the links to go to the current name of the section.
One more quibble is that the 'Laugharne' in the 'Laugharne Corporation' section header is possibly redundant. It's an arguable point, but I think I prefer to see it the way it currently is. — jmcgnh (talk) (contribs) 23:15, 13 June 2020 (UTC)
The article states he was born in 'the respectable area of the Uplands'. There's no citation for this, this is surely just an opinion. I assume the author of those words means Uplands was respectable when Thomas lived there. I suggest removing the opinion from the article. 51.9.104.161 ( talk) 18:29, 20 February 2023 (UTC)
I'm concerned this section is approaching WP:TRIVIA territory, broaching WP:UNDUE and WP:BALASP, and isn't consistent with WP:EPSTYLE (particularly in regards to "Inappropriate lists").
I wasn't able to find any significant scholarly discussion or coverage on his walking trails aside from promotional material on tourism websites. I assume this is why the section currently lacks in-line citations with only notes and external links (I've added templates to identify the claims that require verification, which is all of them tbh)? The introduction is pretty vague and sounds like WP:OR; there doesn't seem to be a clear explanation as to what the bulleted items actually are, and if they in fact form a coherent list? If the necessary sources exist, perhaps there is a way to incorporate information on Thomas's walking habits, or the significance of walking in his work, but I'm not sure this section has legs, or if it's the best vehicle for the information (puns intended). I was hesitant to delete it outright, but perhaps WP:BRD is the best move here. Happy to engage in discussion about how to improve the section if an editor would like to reinstate it! Goodlucklemonpig ( talk) 22:15, 11 September 2023 (UTC)
What is a ' Columbine shooter' please? Sdgard ( talk) 23:36, 16 February 2024 (UTC)