This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
Why is Depersonalization always bad? Is this a Western Eurocentric bias? Isn't depersonalization what meditators spend their lives trying to achieve? I have some depersonalization gained from my meditation - and I want more of it.
There has been some back and forth on the pop culture section. I removed several bullets containing minor mentions of the disorder in movies (Girl, Interrupted; Limitless; Numb), and some unsourced text (Existentialism; American Psycho; R.D. Laing) and some non-notable mentions (Suzanne Vega's song Tom's Diner; a self-diagnosis by Sal Governale and the one probably most contested by Vanlegg, the Collision with the Infinite book, [1]).
The unsourced material can be removed without incident per WP:PROVEIT; if it is replaced, it should have a source.
The mentions in movies and books is always a source of tension; I'm not a fan, but WP:IPC isn't explicit. In any case, the pop culture item should be explicit, and involve a substantial part of the plot. Brief appearances, short mentions and single incidents are not good choices for IPC sections.
As far as Collision with the Infinite goes - it was published by a now-defunct Blue Dove Press, which had less than 20 books published, and focussed on New Age topics. It was not a medical publisher, nor was it scholarly. The page for the book's author was deleted. The actual content added was essentially a quote from the book in which it is not specified if Segal (the book's author and apparent sufferer from a depersonalization experience) was actually diagnosed (possible original research issue), and the book itself does not appear to be notable. I can't find any reviews on google news or anything meaningful in google itself. Accordingly, I support the material being removed. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 15:51, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
SUZANNE SEGAL and her book "COLLISION WITH THE INFINITE" are reputable and just because this is being call new age (biased), does NOT mean that this information is not important to those folks that suffer from these problems. She was diagnosed to have these problems and she was also educated, which makes her "scholary" and makes her "notable". She has her Psy.D. degree from The Wright Institute and obtained licensure as a psychologist. See the link to her school. http://www.wi.edu/program.html I have asked WLU to present his "credentials" (he says this is not needed). Suzanne Segal's link was deleted at the request of WLU who seems to have a personal problem (ie biased) with this information. By the way, how many "hits" did the page that Suzanne Segal get; before WLU asked for its deletion. This would show "what" the "public interest is" and not what WLU's interests are or are not. And if WLU can't find any good links on google then he obviously is not interested in this. There ARE plenty of links to Suzanne and also references to her. How else did I find out about her, and how else do I tell other people to "find out" about her. Due to WLU desire to delete "valuable information" by defaming it (based on his lack of information) there is now even less info available (ie Wikipedia no longer is a source). This is sad. Vanlegg ( talk) 16:25, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Comments focused on editor not content, full of caps, needs to start with basic policies
|
---|
FROM VANLEGG: This is a good page to work from. I still think that you are being biased and you can prove that this is not true.
PLEASE be very specific in your next answer. On what premises do you "CLAIM" she is not notable? Don't use the words "not appear to be". It is not good style to delete INFORMATION because she does "not appear to be notable"; which was cause for request of deletion of her "page".
CREDENTIALS are important when it comes to "defaming" others. I already told you she has her Psy.D. and this gives her AUTHORITY in the " medically reliable source " sense about a "case". She was writing about a "case" (and what better information than her own account of "her case" from a professional point of view). What do YOU say about this? True, she was not a celebrity, but she was an authority and a "case". Like Ocaasi very kindly noted, this information is useful. Under the WP:USEFUL link it is clear that.....
HOLY CRAP...WLU...you are on the WAR PATH to destruction. I just looked at how you are deleting whole sections of the DEPRSONALIZATION page. I really hope somebody is going to block your "destructive path" (is this "fun and recreation" for you?)
You took out the WHOLE "Popular culture" section. I believe this is "vandalism". Please be correct and kind to those that SEEK information. Don't destroy it. Vanlegg ( talk) 18:08, 14 April 2011 (UTC) |
Several personal opinions
|
---|
|
Vanlegg ( talk) 14:52, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Totally unrelated, why isn't this merged with Depersonalization disorder. That's a great article and this is start-class. Is this one that much different, or headed in a different direction (or is the diagnostic classification of the other exclusive enough that less clinical aspects cannot be included there). Ocaasi c 16:35, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Some of the descriptions are rather like the description of derealization. This may be because in literature these are often treated as connected, or even the same. Still, when I'm not me, the world usually still stays real, there are two arms right next to me, just that these are not mine, although I can control them. 92.225.145.141 ( talk) 19:24, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Isn't the stuff about how military training makes it easier for the soldiers to kill people about how it makes them not think of their targets as persons, instead about how they perceive themselves? -- TiagoTiago ( talk) 07:56, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
This article is about a psychological disorder, of how to view yourself, but depersonalization have a much more important meaning, that stop seeing someone else, an alien group you are not a member of, and that you hate, as persons. It is an important an necessary step towards genocide, so frankly I find that phenomenon to be way more important then some rare psychological disorder.
A third meaning of depersonalization, is when YOU feel that others, primarily government institutions, stop seeing you as a person.
In either case the subject of depersonalization is much more diverse then this article makes it seem.
Rphb (
talk) 14:41, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
this phrase needs sharpening as it sounds colloquial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.37.196.254 ( talk) 08:55, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
I find objectification to be a lousy synonym for one of the common senses of "depersonalization" as found in the professions of health care, policing, border control, armed combat, and armchair politics where the individuality of the patients, perpetrators, or politicians often needs to be set aside as a basic human coping mechanism.
Surgeons definitely "objectify" patients as they focus in on the surgical field, but this is far from objectifying the person as a whole, to the degree that I find the word "objectification" irritating and unproductive; in the prison system, it might be full-on objectification (while two wrongs don't make a right, a state-sanctioned crime against a criminal elicits a sweet, easy feeling in the likes of Joe Arpaio).
I really wish this page was titled Depersonalization (psychology) so that objectification could be positioned as an extreme end of a common scale, but I just don't see how that could work, as the accepted language ball lies. — MaxEnt 21:42, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Some VR users have reported feelings of depersonalization after stopping use of VR headsets, such as their hands feeling unreal, or LCD screens/displays being linked to various visual illusions, possibly related to depth perception. Perhaps this should be added in the future (I say in the future because I didn't find any sources other than Reddit posts, and I don't know if they're as good as articles on news websites).
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||
|
Why is Depersonalization always bad? Is this a Western Eurocentric bias? Isn't depersonalization what meditators spend their lives trying to achieve? I have some depersonalization gained from my meditation - and I want more of it.
There has been some back and forth on the pop culture section. I removed several bullets containing minor mentions of the disorder in movies (Girl, Interrupted; Limitless; Numb), and some unsourced text (Existentialism; American Psycho; R.D. Laing) and some non-notable mentions (Suzanne Vega's song Tom's Diner; a self-diagnosis by Sal Governale and the one probably most contested by Vanlegg, the Collision with the Infinite book, [1]).
The unsourced material can be removed without incident per WP:PROVEIT; if it is replaced, it should have a source.
The mentions in movies and books is always a source of tension; I'm not a fan, but WP:IPC isn't explicit. In any case, the pop culture item should be explicit, and involve a substantial part of the plot. Brief appearances, short mentions and single incidents are not good choices for IPC sections.
As far as Collision with the Infinite goes - it was published by a now-defunct Blue Dove Press, which had less than 20 books published, and focussed on New Age topics. It was not a medical publisher, nor was it scholarly. The page for the book's author was deleted. The actual content added was essentially a quote from the book in which it is not specified if Segal (the book's author and apparent sufferer from a depersonalization experience) was actually diagnosed (possible original research issue), and the book itself does not appear to be notable. I can't find any reviews on google news or anything meaningful in google itself. Accordingly, I support the material being removed. WLU (t) (c) Wikipedia's rules: simple/ complex 15:51, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
SUZANNE SEGAL and her book "COLLISION WITH THE INFINITE" are reputable and just because this is being call new age (biased), does NOT mean that this information is not important to those folks that suffer from these problems. She was diagnosed to have these problems and she was also educated, which makes her "scholary" and makes her "notable". She has her Psy.D. degree from The Wright Institute and obtained licensure as a psychologist. See the link to her school. http://www.wi.edu/program.html I have asked WLU to present his "credentials" (he says this is not needed). Suzanne Segal's link was deleted at the request of WLU who seems to have a personal problem (ie biased) with this information. By the way, how many "hits" did the page that Suzanne Segal get; before WLU asked for its deletion. This would show "what" the "public interest is" and not what WLU's interests are or are not. And if WLU can't find any good links on google then he obviously is not interested in this. There ARE plenty of links to Suzanne and also references to her. How else did I find out about her, and how else do I tell other people to "find out" about her. Due to WLU desire to delete "valuable information" by defaming it (based on his lack of information) there is now even less info available (ie Wikipedia no longer is a source). This is sad. Vanlegg ( talk) 16:25, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Comments focused on editor not content, full of caps, needs to start with basic policies
|
---|
FROM VANLEGG: This is a good page to work from. I still think that you are being biased and you can prove that this is not true.
PLEASE be very specific in your next answer. On what premises do you "CLAIM" she is not notable? Don't use the words "not appear to be". It is not good style to delete INFORMATION because she does "not appear to be notable"; which was cause for request of deletion of her "page".
CREDENTIALS are important when it comes to "defaming" others. I already told you she has her Psy.D. and this gives her AUTHORITY in the " medically reliable source " sense about a "case". She was writing about a "case" (and what better information than her own account of "her case" from a professional point of view). What do YOU say about this? True, she was not a celebrity, but she was an authority and a "case". Like Ocaasi very kindly noted, this information is useful. Under the WP:USEFUL link it is clear that.....
HOLY CRAP...WLU...you are on the WAR PATH to destruction. I just looked at how you are deleting whole sections of the DEPRSONALIZATION page. I really hope somebody is going to block your "destructive path" (is this "fun and recreation" for you?)
You took out the WHOLE "Popular culture" section. I believe this is "vandalism". Please be correct and kind to those that SEEK information. Don't destroy it. Vanlegg ( talk) 18:08, 14 April 2011 (UTC) |
Several personal opinions
|
---|
|
Vanlegg ( talk) 14:52, 15 April 2011 (UTC)
Totally unrelated, why isn't this merged with Depersonalization disorder. That's a great article and this is start-class. Is this one that much different, or headed in a different direction (or is the diagnostic classification of the other exclusive enough that less clinical aspects cannot be included there). Ocaasi c 16:35, 14 April 2011 (UTC)
Some of the descriptions are rather like the description of derealization. This may be because in literature these are often treated as connected, or even the same. Still, when I'm not me, the world usually still stays real, there are two arms right next to me, just that these are not mine, although I can control them. 92.225.145.141 ( talk) 19:24, 29 June 2011 (UTC)
Isn't the stuff about how military training makes it easier for the soldiers to kill people about how it makes them not think of their targets as persons, instead about how they perceive themselves? -- TiagoTiago ( talk) 07:56, 12 November 2011 (UTC)
This article is about a psychological disorder, of how to view yourself, but depersonalization have a much more important meaning, that stop seeing someone else, an alien group you are not a member of, and that you hate, as persons. It is an important an necessary step towards genocide, so frankly I find that phenomenon to be way more important then some rare psychological disorder.
A third meaning of depersonalization, is when YOU feel that others, primarily government institutions, stop seeing you as a person.
In either case the subject of depersonalization is much more diverse then this article makes it seem.
Rphb (
talk) 14:41, 15 December 2013 (UTC)
this phrase needs sharpening as it sounds colloquial. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.37.196.254 ( talk) 08:55, 26 May 2017 (UTC)
I find objectification to be a lousy synonym for one of the common senses of "depersonalization" as found in the professions of health care, policing, border control, armed combat, and armchair politics where the individuality of the patients, perpetrators, or politicians often needs to be set aside as a basic human coping mechanism.
Surgeons definitely "objectify" patients as they focus in on the surgical field, but this is far from objectifying the person as a whole, to the degree that I find the word "objectification" irritating and unproductive; in the prison system, it might be full-on objectification (while two wrongs don't make a right, a state-sanctioned crime against a criminal elicits a sweet, easy feeling in the likes of Joe Arpaio).
I really wish this page was titled Depersonalization (psychology) so that objectification could be positioned as an extreme end of a common scale, but I just don't see how that could work, as the accepted language ball lies. — MaxEnt 21:42, 14 January 2018 (UTC)
Some VR users have reported feelings of depersonalization after stopping use of VR headsets, such as their hands feeling unreal, or LCD screens/displays being linked to various visual illusions, possibly related to depth perception. Perhaps this should be added in the future (I say in the future because I didn't find any sources other than Reddit posts, and I don't know if they're as good as articles on news websites).