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I removed the sentence "He will still sit as a Liberal." at the end of the article, as this contradicts the information presented in the introductory paragraph: "Fourteen days later Emerson, who had not yet even been sworn in, crossed the floor and joined Stephen Harper's Conservative Party of Canada on February 6, 2006, the day that Harper was sworn in as Prime Minister." What I'm not sure about is what "sit as a Liberal" means exactly (and why that was even put in in the first place). Does that mean that he'll still vote as the Liberal Party desires in Parliament? If that's the case, that sentence should probably be rephrased.
The way I see this, is it will sort itself out eventually, this hasn't happened in any of our life times, the only other examples I know is Alex Ross from the Labour Party of Alberta sitting with the United Farmers governement as a cabinet minister after the 1921 election, while still being in the opposition and Frederick Haultain appointing Liberals to his cabinet while he was a Conservative preimier of the Northest Territories in the 1890's, everyone is confused, but it will be sorted out. -- Cloveious 04:14, 7 February 2006 (UTC) If he is indeed still a Liberal, then neither he nor Harper seem overly concerned with correcting the news reports that say otherwise:
It doesn't sound like you're making this up, so we will have some interesting decisions to make on how exactly to classify and categorize Emerson. -- Saforrest 05:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
So could he have sat as a Liberal? Presuming, of course, that Harper, the Liberal party, and Emerson himself had all agreed, of course, which would not likely have happened... Cloveious mentioned "Alex Ross from the Labour Party of Alberta sitting with the United Farmers governement as a cabinet minister after the 1921 election, while still being in the opposition and Frederick Haultain appointing Liberals to his cabinet while he was a Conservative preimier of the Northest Territories in the 1890's" - anyone know? 134.117.254.250 23:37, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Emerson's website (which worked earlier today) is now suspended. The Liberals have pulled all the text of his candidate page from their campaign website; compare his page with Keith Martin's, and notice the significant omission in this list of BC candidates. So the Liberals may not think he's a Liberal. Finally, check out his official parliamentary profile, which says "Caucus: Conservative", or the profile for Vancouver Kingsway. Surely if he's a Liberal he must at least be in the Liberal caucus (whether or not he's in the Conservative cabinet), no? -- Saforrest 05:24, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
If the Liberals kicked him out of his caucus for sitting as a Liberal Cabinet Minister in a Conservative government wouldn't that make him an Independent Liberal? I'm so confused and excited to see how this plays out. I can't wait to get back to the comments, this swearing in ceremony is getting boring -- Cloveious 05:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I just want to point out that David Emerson is not listed as a Conservative MP on the Conservative homepage. [1] -- Cloveious 06:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Emerson was in the caucus meeting this morning. -- JGGardiner 17:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I've tagged this article NPOV as a result of the introductory paragraph. Specifically, this sentence: Featured in televised Liberal election ads promoting the party in British Columbia as the best choice for voters, Emerson was elected as a Liberal Party of Canada candidate in the 39th Parliament. Fourteen days later Emerson, who had not yet even been sworn in, crossed the floor and joined Stephen Harper's Conservative Party of Canada on 6 February 2006 I removed this sentence already: Emerson justified his defection by saying that he's always been "a small c liberal". Canadian voters' cynicism has increased since his defection. Specifically I had problems with the cynicism comment, it's much too early to tell given that this comment was added the same day as the event itself. My suggestion would be that there's no problem with the text itself but it shouldn't be included in the introduction paragraph. Perhaps a different section detailing the controversy? Thanks sinblox (talk) 06:04, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I am a member of the Conservative Party and I dont see this as being anti-conservative NOPV. I'm also a former member of the Liberal Party and I dont see this as being anti-liberal NPOV. so... what's the issue? Pellaken 10:29, 7 February 2006 (UTC) I'm sorry for setting off the NPOV bomb again, but there's way too much emotional language in the "Crossing the Floor" section. We need to stick to a neutral recitation of the facts -- by all means, quote poll numbers showing what constituents think of Emerson, and mention the controversy about refunding campaign donations, but we need to do all of that in a simple, matter-of-fact way without writing about constituents who gave "what little they could afford" or "widespread condemnation" (only one member of the Conservative caucus criticised the move, for example). David 20:44, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I just want to point out that Emerson's press conference is comming up on C-Pac, right after Harper is done speaking. -- Cloveious 06:11, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Any mention of the numbers in Parliament? This now gives Harper enough votes for a bare majority with only Conservative and NDP support. I assume this is the real reason he wanted one more MP. No offence to Mr. Emerson. -- JGGardiner 06:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC) If I'm not mistaken, a majority needs 155 seats. The CPC and NDP together, including Emerson, is still one shy.
I may be wrong, but I think that 154 seats is sufficient, since the speaker does not vote. If a Liberal speaker is chosen (Peter Milliken is a likely choice again), then the CPC (124) plus Emerson (1) plus the NDP (29) makes 154, versus the BQ (51) plus Independent (1) plus Libs (102) minus speaker (1) makes 153.
A previous user deleted the petition link, with the comment that "an encyclopedia is no place for partisan petitions." I disagree about the relevance of the petition. People don't have to sign it nor are we encouraging people to do so simply by including it as a link, but in my opinion the wording of the petition as well as the number of people who have signed it is certainly noteworthy and relevant to this article. It's grown rapidly over the past two days. I am restoring the link but adding this comment for further discussion as needed.
I believe it should be mentioned maybe, but not linked to. It seems too partisan to me. Agreed? -- 24.68.182.5 22:06, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is a repository of information available in the public domain. You wouldn't need to rely on the national media for an article on neutrinos, as the information would be available in scientific journals. Your own comments would not be allowed, as Wikipedia has rules against original research (if your comments were reported in the national media, that would be different). CJCurrie 06:37, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I started writing about notability but I don’t want to get dragged into that debate or prolong it. So, since BDell summarized his (or her) concerns in the end I would prefer to get back to those.
My thoughts: #1 Yes, the controversy is notable (for several reasons) and the accusations are integral to their discussion. I think that supporting arguments can sometimes be overdone on WP generally however. #2 Yes I think the websites are relevant. If there was an active and serious campaign to recall/remove any MP for any reason I’d certainly include the link in their article. -- JGGardiner 08:35, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
The Canadian Order of Precedence does not function as does that in the United States; the order does not determine who would "assume the role" of the prime minister in his or her absence. I would recommend that we amend this page by mentioning that, while Mr. Emerson is third in the order of precedence of ministers, this does not entitle him to any preferential treatment over other ministers. FiveParadox 05:07, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
24.82.25.11 vandalised the article with a small edit: . Weird.-- Anchoress 02:49, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be mentioned that there was harldy any controversy when Belinda Stronach crossed the floor (not even close to what the media has done with this case) and the fact that there wasn't even an ethics probe?-- Eupator 02:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
This might be a good idea, although Stronach's move isn't really against any ethics since she was re-elected as a Liberal in the election. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.136.46.61 ( talk • contribs). Stronach served nearly a year as a Conservative before crossing the floor, rather than immediately following an election and being elected by a rather comfortable margin. Plus, as mentioned before, Stronach was re-elected as a Grit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.141.47.50 ( talk • contribs)blp=yes.
MacKay is third in line of succession to PM duties. The current line is Cannon, Prentice & MacKay. Therefore, Emerson is after MacKay. GoodDay 19:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I removed the part about Emerson being forth in the "order of succession" for two reasons: First, it seems intuitively wrong to me since it seems to imply this has something to do with the Order of Precedence. The O-of-P really only detirmines where you sit at state dinners and who gets to shake hands first with the Queen. I don't think there is any real order-of-succession for PM duties in Canada. Either the PM appoints someone (normally a deputy PM) or the goverment caucus would choose an interim leader. Secondly, the reference is a dead link, (and not in the wayback machine) so I can't tell what source this is based on. 132.156.204.166 ( talk) 13:17, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 00:47, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
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I removed the sentence "He will still sit as a Liberal." at the end of the article, as this contradicts the information presented in the introductory paragraph: "Fourteen days later Emerson, who had not yet even been sworn in, crossed the floor and joined Stephen Harper's Conservative Party of Canada on February 6, 2006, the day that Harper was sworn in as Prime Minister." What I'm not sure about is what "sit as a Liberal" means exactly (and why that was even put in in the first place). Does that mean that he'll still vote as the Liberal Party desires in Parliament? If that's the case, that sentence should probably be rephrased.
The way I see this, is it will sort itself out eventually, this hasn't happened in any of our life times, the only other examples I know is Alex Ross from the Labour Party of Alberta sitting with the United Farmers governement as a cabinet minister after the 1921 election, while still being in the opposition and Frederick Haultain appointing Liberals to his cabinet while he was a Conservative preimier of the Northest Territories in the 1890's, everyone is confused, but it will be sorted out. -- Cloveious 04:14, 7 February 2006 (UTC) If he is indeed still a Liberal, then neither he nor Harper seem overly concerned with correcting the news reports that say otherwise:
It doesn't sound like you're making this up, so we will have some interesting decisions to make on how exactly to classify and categorize Emerson. -- Saforrest 05:07, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
So could he have sat as a Liberal? Presuming, of course, that Harper, the Liberal party, and Emerson himself had all agreed, of course, which would not likely have happened... Cloveious mentioned "Alex Ross from the Labour Party of Alberta sitting with the United Farmers governement as a cabinet minister after the 1921 election, while still being in the opposition and Frederick Haultain appointing Liberals to his cabinet while he was a Conservative preimier of the Northest Territories in the 1890's" - anyone know? 134.117.254.250 23:37, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
Emerson's website (which worked earlier today) is now suspended. The Liberals have pulled all the text of his candidate page from their campaign website; compare his page with Keith Martin's, and notice the significant omission in this list of BC candidates. So the Liberals may not think he's a Liberal. Finally, check out his official parliamentary profile, which says "Caucus: Conservative", or the profile for Vancouver Kingsway. Surely if he's a Liberal he must at least be in the Liberal caucus (whether or not he's in the Conservative cabinet), no? -- Saforrest 05:24, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
If the Liberals kicked him out of his caucus for sitting as a Liberal Cabinet Minister in a Conservative government wouldn't that make him an Independent Liberal? I'm so confused and excited to see how this plays out. I can't wait to get back to the comments, this swearing in ceremony is getting boring -- Cloveious 05:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I just want to point out that David Emerson is not listed as a Conservative MP on the Conservative homepage. [1] -- Cloveious 06:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Emerson was in the caucus meeting this morning. -- JGGardiner 17:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I've tagged this article NPOV as a result of the introductory paragraph. Specifically, this sentence: Featured in televised Liberal election ads promoting the party in British Columbia as the best choice for voters, Emerson was elected as a Liberal Party of Canada candidate in the 39th Parliament. Fourteen days later Emerson, who had not yet even been sworn in, crossed the floor and joined Stephen Harper's Conservative Party of Canada on 6 February 2006 I removed this sentence already: Emerson justified his defection by saying that he's always been "a small c liberal". Canadian voters' cynicism has increased since his defection. Specifically I had problems with the cynicism comment, it's much too early to tell given that this comment was added the same day as the event itself. My suggestion would be that there's no problem with the text itself but it shouldn't be included in the introduction paragraph. Perhaps a different section detailing the controversy? Thanks sinblox (talk) 06:04, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
I am a member of the Conservative Party and I dont see this as being anti-conservative NOPV. I'm also a former member of the Liberal Party and I dont see this as being anti-liberal NPOV. so... what's the issue? Pellaken 10:29, 7 February 2006 (UTC) I'm sorry for setting off the NPOV bomb again, but there's way too much emotional language in the "Crossing the Floor" section. We need to stick to a neutral recitation of the facts -- by all means, quote poll numbers showing what constituents think of Emerson, and mention the controversy about refunding campaign donations, but we need to do all of that in a simple, matter-of-fact way without writing about constituents who gave "what little they could afford" or "widespread condemnation" (only one member of the Conservative caucus criticised the move, for example). David 20:44, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
I just want to point out that Emerson's press conference is comming up on C-Pac, right after Harper is done speaking. -- Cloveious 06:11, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
Any mention of the numbers in Parliament? This now gives Harper enough votes for a bare majority with only Conservative and NDP support. I assume this is the real reason he wanted one more MP. No offence to Mr. Emerson. -- JGGardiner 06:26, 7 February 2006 (UTC) If I'm not mistaken, a majority needs 155 seats. The CPC and NDP together, including Emerson, is still one shy.
I may be wrong, but I think that 154 seats is sufficient, since the speaker does not vote. If a Liberal speaker is chosen (Peter Milliken is a likely choice again), then the CPC (124) plus Emerson (1) plus the NDP (29) makes 154, versus the BQ (51) plus Independent (1) plus Libs (102) minus speaker (1) makes 153.
A previous user deleted the petition link, with the comment that "an encyclopedia is no place for partisan petitions." I disagree about the relevance of the petition. People don't have to sign it nor are we encouraging people to do so simply by including it as a link, but in my opinion the wording of the petition as well as the number of people who have signed it is certainly noteworthy and relevant to this article. It's grown rapidly over the past two days. I am restoring the link but adding this comment for further discussion as needed.
I believe it should be mentioned maybe, but not linked to. It seems too partisan to me. Agreed? -- 24.68.182.5 22:06, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedia is a repository of information available in the public domain. You wouldn't need to rely on the national media for an article on neutrinos, as the information would be available in scientific journals. Your own comments would not be allowed, as Wikipedia has rules against original research (if your comments were reported in the national media, that would be different). CJCurrie 06:37, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
I started writing about notability but I don’t want to get dragged into that debate or prolong it. So, since BDell summarized his (or her) concerns in the end I would prefer to get back to those.
My thoughts: #1 Yes, the controversy is notable (for several reasons) and the accusations are integral to their discussion. I think that supporting arguments can sometimes be overdone on WP generally however. #2 Yes I think the websites are relevant. If there was an active and serious campaign to recall/remove any MP for any reason I’d certainly include the link in their article. -- JGGardiner 08:35, 19 February 2006 (UTC)
The Canadian Order of Precedence does not function as does that in the United States; the order does not determine who would "assume the role" of the prime minister in his or her absence. I would recommend that we amend this page by mentioning that, while Mr. Emerson is third in the order of precedence of ministers, this does not entitle him to any preferential treatment over other ministers. FiveParadox 05:07, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
24.82.25.11 vandalised the article with a small edit: . Weird.-- Anchoress 02:49, 12 February 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't it be mentioned that there was harldy any controversy when Belinda Stronach crossed the floor (not even close to what the media has done with this case) and the fact that there wasn't even an ethics probe?-- Eupator 02:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
This might be a good idea, although Stronach's move isn't really against any ethics since she was re-elected as a Liberal in the election. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 72.136.46.61 ( talk • contribs). Stronach served nearly a year as a Conservative before crossing the floor, rather than immediately following an election and being elected by a rather comfortable margin. Plus, as mentioned before, Stronach was re-elected as a Grit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.141.47.50 ( talk • contribs)blp=yes.
MacKay is third in line of succession to PM duties. The current line is Cannon, Prentice & MacKay. Therefore, Emerson is after MacKay. GoodDay 19:59, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
I removed the part about Emerson being forth in the "order of succession" for two reasons: First, it seems intuitively wrong to me since it seems to imply this has something to do with the Order of Precedence. The O-of-P really only detirmines where you sit at state dinners and who gets to shake hands first with the Queen. I don't think there is any real order-of-succession for PM duties in Canada. Either the PM appoints someone (normally a deputy PM) or the goverment caucus would choose an interim leader. Secondly, the reference is a dead link, (and not in the wayback machine) so I can't tell what source this is based on. 132.156.204.166 ( talk) 13:17, 13 August 2008 (UTC)
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 ( talk) 00:47, 18 July 2013 (UTC)
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