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Surely these county 'towns' you've listed are in fact known as CITIES!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 139.222.128.2 ( talk • contribs) .
Done some checking and in addition to Leicestershire's being Glenfield, Derbyshire's is in Matlock. (Nottinghamshire's is (extraterritorially now) in Nottingham). So it's either erroneous or a list of historical county towns, which needs stating. -- Morwen.
Here's a provisional list ordered by counties
Traditional Counties
1974 counties (except metros)
Humberside's HQ was in Beverley, not Hull, according to my 1983 Whitaker's Almanac. A check on the W Sussex website puts County Hall in Chichester, not Worthing. -- rbrwr
The situation with Middlesex is apparently this: the magistrates sat at Clerkenwell from the late middle ages until the 19th century. County elections were held at Brentford during the 18th and 19th century (1911 Brittannica calls it the "county-town for elections"). The County Council sat at Westminster from 1889 to 1965. There is no longer a council.
Not a registered user here, but anyway... I contributed some of the stuff to this page originally, taking info from Bucks County Council's list of authorities, which needed updating. There is a map available for free use at http://www.abcounties.co.uk/counties/map.htm (as long as you provide a link to their page) showing the pre-1974 traditional counties of the UK though not the towns associated with such. but with the amount of historical societies out there I imagine it shouldn't be too difficult to find out the info about pre-1974 county towns. I imagine that would be easier because since 1974 and especially since the reshuffle in the 1990's nobody seems to know exactly what a county is any more...
Suffolk - 1888 to 1974 the county was divided into West Suffolk (county town Bury St Edmunds) and East Suffolk (county town Ipswich) And the County Borough of Ipswich. Post 1974 county functions are still divided between the two (I suspect partly because both county authorities built themselves expensive new office buildings just before the merger) Ghughesarch 16:02, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Is the term "county town" used anywhere at all except the UK and Ireland? The article suggests it's more widespread but doesn't have any examples. Stan 20:18, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
Good point. The only two countries mentioned are the Republic of Ireland and the uk.
As these have no administrative functions themselves the old administrative HQs are no longer used for anything relating to them. Owain 09:28, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
In Scotland counties only counties that share a name with their county town (or former county town) end in -shire. Examples are Perthshire or Kincardineshire. Counties such as Caithness or Argyll whose county towns have a different name from them should not have the -shire suffix. -- Derek Ross | Talk 17:59, 2005 Jan 31 (UTC)
Surely if Glenfield is the CT of Leicestershire, West Bridgford should be the CT of Nottinghamshire? -- Cavrdg 18:32, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
The first sentence of the article is A county town is the location of the administrative headquarters of a county. You're very welcome to write something better. Formally, County Hall, Glenfield is in Blaby (district) and County Hall, West Bridgford is in Rushcliffe rather than their respective cities so we're currently being inconsistent with the definition as well as between the two. -- Cavrdg 06:24, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
How about adding a section listing the "county towns" or adimistrative centres of the former metroplitan counties (1974 - 1986) and Greater London which was and is in some respects still classed as a county. And expanding on that what about the unitary authorites that replaced the metropolitan county councils and later in the 1990s some district & county coucils surely have "County Towns" though I know most are not regarded as counties in their own right and many consist of a single town or city. Penrithguy 17:30, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I've slightly amended the introductory paragraphy to show that this article refers only to the UK and Ireland. I've also added a note regarding the use of "parish seat" in Louisiana. But I'm a bit surprised that no-one to date has written anything about the term "shire town"? I'm not entirely sure how to define it myself, but it would be a useful addition. {{ Silverhelm 00:46, 20 August 2005 (UTC)}}
Are Wakefield, Beverley and Northallerton definitely historical seats of the Quarter Sessions, etc? I was also surprised to discover the Lancashire administration has been based at Preston since 1882, if not before - County Hall at Preston definitely predates County Hall at Wakefield Morwen - Talk 19:10, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
According to Lewis's Topographical Dictionary of England, Vol. III (1831):
.the assizes and general quarter sessions for the county are also held in this town, which also, as being the county town, the election of knights of the shire takes place. Lancaster Castle was apparently used by the Grand Jury.
The quarter sesions of the county, the meetings of the deputy lieutenents and other county meetings are held here; and from its central situation , the offices of the court of chancery, common pleas, and other courts of the duchy of Lancaster, unless when the officers attend the assizes at Lancaster, are also held at Preston.... ..The sessions-house and house of correction is a capacious building, enclosed within a lofty boundary wall, including every requisite accomodation for the county sessions, the meeting of the county magistrates...
In the Lancashire entry it states that the office of the court of chancery of the county palatine is at Preston, and that the court of annual general sessions is "holden at Preston on the Thursday next after the feast of St John the Baptist".
And elsewhere that the quarter sessions of the hundreds of Amounderness, Blackburn and Leyland are held at Preston.
So Preston obviously was the administrative HQ for at least part of the county. Perhaps we need to redefine "county town"? Lozleader 20:44, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Also in Lewis: York was the county town, and was the site of the county assizes, the county gaol, and was the location for the election of kights for the shire. the records of the West Riding sessions were at Wakefield, as was the gaol. Quarter sessions were held at various locations. The quarter sessions for the East Riding were held at Beverley, and the North Riding at North Allerton (sic), and the sessions records were also kept at those towns. It doesn't call them "county towns".
So it would seem a county can (could) only have one "county town", even if it is divided into ridings or divisions. Lozleader 20:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Well this article is a bit of a shambles, as county town seems to mean different things at different times (and to different people).
How about splitting into sections:
Lozleader 21:07, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
According to [1] the county town of Rads was Presteigne, but the county council set up shop in Llandrindod Wells. Lozleader 11:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
According to The Times of October 22nd 1889, a number of the county councils had not yet decided on the permanent location for holding their meetings. In the case of Surrey, the quarter sessions met at Newington, which had been placed in the County of London by the 1888 Act. Reigate, Kingston, Epsom "and indeed other places of less significance set up claims to be allowed to offer hospitality to to the County Council". Not sure when Kingston won out. Lozleader 08:31, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Found a bit more in The Times: In the edition of March 27, 1890 the report of the County Buildings Committee was received. They had been instructed to find accommodation for the county council and quarter sessions within the administrative county. They did not think existing borough buildings in Kingston or Guildford were adequate. They recommended building a new county hall in Wimbledon. Other places with suitable sites were Epsom, Guildford, Surbiton, Kingston, and Redhill.
By 1897 they had moved to Kingston: the chairman of the county council wrote to the paper from the county hall there on January 9th (January 11th edition)
Lozleader 12:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
How about adding East Kent/ Canterbury and Liberty of St Albans/ St Albans? Maybe we just need a list of Quarter Sessions and areas. Morwen - Talk 22:43, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Lozleader 08:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Just to make things more complicated again! Ilchester was apparently the ancient county town of Somerset. In 1831, according to Lewis, the knights for the shire were elected there, and the county gaol was also in the town. The assizes had formerly been held there, but had moved to Taunton, Wells and Bridgwater. Lozleader 09:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
According to Trowbridge: "In 1898 Wiltshire County Council first built offices in the town and as council services developed it expanded. In 1940 Wiltshire County Council opened County Hall and designated Trowbridge the county town of Wiltshire." No references given, though. Lozleader 10:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
This business is insanely complicated. Is it fair to say that pre-1832, at least, the main test was location where Knights of the Shire were elected? Perhaps we should have a list of pre-1832 county towns, and then go from there? john k 13:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
This is a list of towns regarded as "county towns" for the election of knights for the shire in England in 1831:
Wales:
Ireland:
† Elections held at the town at which the next assizes will be held
The term county capital is in fairly general use in Ireland, examples (none official, mind you): Tullamore [9], Navan [10], Dungarvan [11], Portlaoise [12], Cavan [13], Carlow [14], Newcastle West [15] Lozleader 22:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Alexander Stewart's compendium (published 1828) has
This isn't the only source which gives Launceston the county town of Cornwall - Daniel Defoe also does. Morwen - Talk 16:26, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
This article says that county town of County Meath is " Trim ( Navan - de facto)". What does de facto mean in this context? Is there a source for this information? The Navan, Trim and County Meath articles all says that Navan is the county town, having once been Trim. Is this correct? -- Patleahy 19:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Cupar has not been the county town of Fife for some time, according to the Cupar page on Wikipedia Glenrothes took over as county town in 1975. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.12.7.4 ( talk) 14:19, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Monmouthshire is in WALES. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.22.131.233 ( talk) 20:23, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
There would be no problem if we just had one list for the whole country instead of splitting it into four sub-national lists. That would also have the advantage that the counties of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would come up top (Aberdeenshire, Anglesey, Angus, Antrim). When we split the list up, England barges to the top by force of its own alphabetical priority.
There is no reason to split Britain up. I say have one list.
Howard Alexander ( talk) 20:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Alnwick is not the county town of Northumberland. Morpeth is the administrative centre of Northumberland as the County Hall offices are located in Morpeth. Prior to the reshuffling of administrative boundaries in 1974, Newcastle-upon-Tyne was the County Town of Northumberland. Alnwick's claim of the County Court is irrelevant.
The following article explains why Morpeth is County Town of Northumberland:
http://www.morpethherald.co.uk/news/The-title-belongs-to-Morpeth.979686.jp —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Tzdelski (
talk •
contribs) 19:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Right point taken, your article is still incorrect as Alnwick has never been the county town of Northumberland. It was always Newcastle before Morpeth. Alnwick had very little political power with its "County Court", all judicial functions were carried out in Newcastle. There is a little clause written into a law of 1548 by the Duke of Northumberland as a footnote. This seems to be little more than a tool to gain power for himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tzdelski ( talk • contribs) 09:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Alnwick being the county town of Northumberland, the county court is held here once a month. ...The members of parliament and the coroners for the county of Northumberland are elected at Alnwick. However, Alnwick enjoys none of the distinctions or privileges of a county town. The county gaol is at Morpeth, where all the executions take place; and the assizes, probably for the convenience of the judges, are held at Newcastle.
Lozleader ( talk) 16:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have a reliable source for this assertion? I can't find anything about a change of county town in either the Times Digital Archive or the British Museum 19th Century Newspapers of the time. On Googling, there are a lot of wikipedia based pages that repeat the fact, and they all sem to lead back to a single source: [20]. This is a thoroughly unreliable site (the author takes the minority/fringe position that counties cannot be altered by legislation) and in any case fails WP:SELFPUB. I am about to be bold and remove the ref from Reading, Berkshire. Lozleader ( talk) 15:20, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
What in 1809 was a nominal division of honours, became more unequal as the years went by until 1868 when Abingdon ceased to be a county town.
more stuff:
(more to come)
So, it would seem that rather than being a change with a definite date, the two towns had shared the role of County Town for some time, and the function was gradually concentrated on Reading; and by the end of 1869, Abingdon had no County Town functions left. Thus, I would say that no precise date can be given, and the best that can be said is "the changeover occurred gradually, between 1867 and 1869". Regarding County records; these are no longer at Abingdon, but at Reading. Another trip, I guess. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 12:06, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
At the Court at Windsor, the 14th day of September 1868.
PRESENT,
The QUEEN's Most Excellent Majesty in Council.
WHEREAS by an Act passed in the session of Parliament holden in the third and fourth years of the reign of His late Majesty King William the Fourth, intituled "An Act for the appointment of convenient places for the holding of assizes in England and Wales", it was declared and enacted that His Majesty, by and with the advice of His Most Honourable Privy Council, should have power from time to time to order and direct at what place or places in any county in England or Wales the assizes and sessions under the commissions of gaol delivery and other commissions for the dispatch of civil and criminal business shall be holden:
Now, therefore, Her Majesty, by and with the advice of Her Privy Council, doth hereby, under and in pursuance of the said Act, order and direct that the Assizes and Sessions under the Commissions of Gaol Delivery and other Commissions for the dispatch of civil and criminal business which shall be holden in and for the county of Berks next after the date of this Order, shall be held at Reading, in the said county, and not at Abingdon or at any other place within the said county.
And the Right Honourable the Lord Chancellor of Great Britain is to give the necessary, directions herein accordingly.
-- Redrose64 ( talk) 20:00, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Great research guys, but could I just point out that the article at Reading, Berkshire that Lozleader complained about in the first post of this thread still says that The town became the County Town (superseding Abingdon) in 1867, coupled with the fact tag that he put on back in March. I'm still trying to work out why he posted his original comment here rather than at Talk:Reading, Berkshire, but isn't the whole point of this discussion to improve this reference in that article?.
I guess I could try and plagiarise your research and cite one or more of the above references. But I think it would be much preferable if it came from the horses mouth. -- Starbois ( talk) 17:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Is there any further description of the location in Southwark of the Surrey county administration? Looking at some maps I realised the boundary between the ancient borough of Southwark and the parish of Newington was Newington Causeway. Thus the site at Newington (now the Inner London Crown Court) fronted onto Southwark and might have been described as either "Southwark" or "Newington". The two places could be the same? MRSC ( talk) 16:40, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
A lot of these county towns are also listed as being county corporates prior to 1974. Surely the county seat wasn't set in a town that was no longer part of the county? I realize the county corporate page says that the counties corporate were effectively reintegrated into their old counties in 1882. But if that's the case then the "County towns prior to the late 19th century reforms" list here is only valid for 1882-1889. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.91.25.224 ( talk) 17:56, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
These sections were less than satisfactory. Quite apart from the fact that a lot of dates and places were wrong (Gwynedd is still extant but was missing from the current list!) there was a definite muddle over some of the places that were county towns.
1) Montgomery was not county town of Montgomeryshire prior to 1885. From the time of the Glyndwr rebellion, the county administration had been based in the county's natural centre at Welshpool.
2) Beaumaris was the seat of Anglesey County Council until 1974. However, from 1900 some administrative functions were transferred to Llangefni due to its better transport links, and when Ynys Môn (please note, not Anglesey) was reconstituted as a county, the county town was placed there.
3) The same comments can be made of the Presteigne/Llandod controversy. Llandod was not the county town of Radnorshire until after it was absorbed into Powys, but due to its central location some administrative functions were based there (the BBC article is not entirely correct - BBC Wales in particular should be treated with caution, as it is under-resourced and struggles to attract/retain good staff other than for things like Dr Who, which are financed from London).
4) Aberaeron was never the county town of Cardiganshire. After 1885 the county council was based in Aberystwyth, and the assizes were held at Lampeter. Only after 1996 when the new county of Ceredigion was formed was the county council set at Aberaeron.
Have tidied up, reordered the dates and added the missing numbers. Have also added explanatory footnotes. Hope that's all clear. 86.174.176.206 ( talk) 13:19, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Post-council merger, Co. Waterford seems to have two administrative centres, Waterford and Dungarvan. Does that mean it also has two "county towns"? This articles gives just Waterford. The article list of urban areas in the Republic of Ireland by population just gives Dungarvan. Neither is sourced. Can we provide one? See also this discussion. 79.97.71.180 ( talk) 20:45, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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Surely these county 'towns' you've listed are in fact known as CITIES!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 139.222.128.2 ( talk • contribs) .
Done some checking and in addition to Leicestershire's being Glenfield, Derbyshire's is in Matlock. (Nottinghamshire's is (extraterritorially now) in Nottingham). So it's either erroneous or a list of historical county towns, which needs stating. -- Morwen.
Here's a provisional list ordered by counties
Traditional Counties
1974 counties (except metros)
Humberside's HQ was in Beverley, not Hull, according to my 1983 Whitaker's Almanac. A check on the W Sussex website puts County Hall in Chichester, not Worthing. -- rbrwr
The situation with Middlesex is apparently this: the magistrates sat at Clerkenwell from the late middle ages until the 19th century. County elections were held at Brentford during the 18th and 19th century (1911 Brittannica calls it the "county-town for elections"). The County Council sat at Westminster from 1889 to 1965. There is no longer a council.
Not a registered user here, but anyway... I contributed some of the stuff to this page originally, taking info from Bucks County Council's list of authorities, which needed updating. There is a map available for free use at http://www.abcounties.co.uk/counties/map.htm (as long as you provide a link to their page) showing the pre-1974 traditional counties of the UK though not the towns associated with such. but with the amount of historical societies out there I imagine it shouldn't be too difficult to find out the info about pre-1974 county towns. I imagine that would be easier because since 1974 and especially since the reshuffle in the 1990's nobody seems to know exactly what a county is any more...
Suffolk - 1888 to 1974 the county was divided into West Suffolk (county town Bury St Edmunds) and East Suffolk (county town Ipswich) And the County Borough of Ipswich. Post 1974 county functions are still divided between the two (I suspect partly because both county authorities built themselves expensive new office buildings just before the merger) Ghughesarch 16:02, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Is the term "county town" used anywhere at all except the UK and Ireland? The article suggests it's more widespread but doesn't have any examples. Stan 20:18, 19 May 2004 (UTC)
Good point. The only two countries mentioned are the Republic of Ireland and the uk.
As these have no administrative functions themselves the old administrative HQs are no longer used for anything relating to them. Owain 09:28, 25 May 2004 (UTC)
In Scotland counties only counties that share a name with their county town (or former county town) end in -shire. Examples are Perthshire or Kincardineshire. Counties such as Caithness or Argyll whose county towns have a different name from them should not have the -shire suffix. -- Derek Ross | Talk 17:59, 2005 Jan 31 (UTC)
Surely if Glenfield is the CT of Leicestershire, West Bridgford should be the CT of Nottinghamshire? -- Cavrdg 18:32, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
The first sentence of the article is A county town is the location of the administrative headquarters of a county. You're very welcome to write something better. Formally, County Hall, Glenfield is in Blaby (district) and County Hall, West Bridgford is in Rushcliffe rather than their respective cities so we're currently being inconsistent with the definition as well as between the two. -- Cavrdg 06:24, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
How about adding a section listing the "county towns" or adimistrative centres of the former metroplitan counties (1974 - 1986) and Greater London which was and is in some respects still classed as a county. And expanding on that what about the unitary authorites that replaced the metropolitan county councils and later in the 1990s some district & county coucils surely have "County Towns" though I know most are not regarded as counties in their own right and many consist of a single town or city. Penrithguy 17:30, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I've slightly amended the introductory paragraphy to show that this article refers only to the UK and Ireland. I've also added a note regarding the use of "parish seat" in Louisiana. But I'm a bit surprised that no-one to date has written anything about the term "shire town"? I'm not entirely sure how to define it myself, but it would be a useful addition. {{ Silverhelm 00:46, 20 August 2005 (UTC)}}
Are Wakefield, Beverley and Northallerton definitely historical seats of the Quarter Sessions, etc? I was also surprised to discover the Lancashire administration has been based at Preston since 1882, if not before - County Hall at Preston definitely predates County Hall at Wakefield Morwen - Talk 19:10, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
According to Lewis's Topographical Dictionary of England, Vol. III (1831):
.the assizes and general quarter sessions for the county are also held in this town, which also, as being the county town, the election of knights of the shire takes place. Lancaster Castle was apparently used by the Grand Jury.
The quarter sesions of the county, the meetings of the deputy lieutenents and other county meetings are held here; and from its central situation , the offices of the court of chancery, common pleas, and other courts of the duchy of Lancaster, unless when the officers attend the assizes at Lancaster, are also held at Preston.... ..The sessions-house and house of correction is a capacious building, enclosed within a lofty boundary wall, including every requisite accomodation for the county sessions, the meeting of the county magistrates...
In the Lancashire entry it states that the office of the court of chancery of the county palatine is at Preston, and that the court of annual general sessions is "holden at Preston on the Thursday next after the feast of St John the Baptist".
And elsewhere that the quarter sessions of the hundreds of Amounderness, Blackburn and Leyland are held at Preston.
So Preston obviously was the administrative HQ for at least part of the county. Perhaps we need to redefine "county town"? Lozleader 20:44, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Also in Lewis: York was the county town, and was the site of the county assizes, the county gaol, and was the location for the election of kights for the shire. the records of the West Riding sessions were at Wakefield, as was the gaol. Quarter sessions were held at various locations. The quarter sessions for the East Riding were held at Beverley, and the North Riding at North Allerton (sic), and the sessions records were also kept at those towns. It doesn't call them "county towns".
So it would seem a county can (could) only have one "county town", even if it is divided into ridings or divisions. Lozleader 20:58, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
Well this article is a bit of a shambles, as county town seems to mean different things at different times (and to different people).
How about splitting into sections:
Lozleader 21:07, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
According to [1] the county town of Rads was Presteigne, but the county council set up shop in Llandrindod Wells. Lozleader 11:52, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
According to The Times of October 22nd 1889, a number of the county councils had not yet decided on the permanent location for holding their meetings. In the case of Surrey, the quarter sessions met at Newington, which had been placed in the County of London by the 1888 Act. Reigate, Kingston, Epsom "and indeed other places of less significance set up claims to be allowed to offer hospitality to to the County Council". Not sure when Kingston won out. Lozleader 08:31, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Found a bit more in The Times: In the edition of March 27, 1890 the report of the County Buildings Committee was received. They had been instructed to find accommodation for the county council and quarter sessions within the administrative county. They did not think existing borough buildings in Kingston or Guildford were adequate. They recommended building a new county hall in Wimbledon. Other places with suitable sites were Epsom, Guildford, Surbiton, Kingston, and Redhill.
By 1897 they had moved to Kingston: the chairman of the county council wrote to the paper from the county hall there on January 9th (January 11th edition)
Lozleader 12:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
How about adding East Kent/ Canterbury and Liberty of St Albans/ St Albans? Maybe we just need a list of Quarter Sessions and areas. Morwen - Talk 22:43, 2 October 2006 (UTC)
Lozleader 08:50, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
Just to make things more complicated again! Ilchester was apparently the ancient county town of Somerset. In 1831, according to Lewis, the knights for the shire were elected there, and the county gaol was also in the town. The assizes had formerly been held there, but had moved to Taunton, Wells and Bridgwater. Lozleader 09:02, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
According to Trowbridge: "In 1898 Wiltshire County Council first built offices in the town and as council services developed it expanded. In 1940 Wiltshire County Council opened County Hall and designated Trowbridge the county town of Wiltshire." No references given, though. Lozleader 10:24, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
This business is insanely complicated. Is it fair to say that pre-1832, at least, the main test was location where Knights of the Shire were elected? Perhaps we should have a list of pre-1832 county towns, and then go from there? john k 13:05, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
This is a list of towns regarded as "county towns" for the election of knights for the shire in England in 1831:
Wales:
Ireland:
† Elections held at the town at which the next assizes will be held
The term county capital is in fairly general use in Ireland, examples (none official, mind you): Tullamore [9], Navan [10], Dungarvan [11], Portlaoise [12], Cavan [13], Carlow [14], Newcastle West [15] Lozleader 22:01, 16 October 2006 (UTC)
Alexander Stewart's compendium (published 1828) has
This isn't the only source which gives Launceston the county town of Cornwall - Daniel Defoe also does. Morwen - Talk 16:26, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
This article says that county town of County Meath is " Trim ( Navan - de facto)". What does de facto mean in this context? Is there a source for this information? The Navan, Trim and County Meath articles all says that Navan is the county town, having once been Trim. Is this correct? -- Patleahy 19:24, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
Cupar has not been the county town of Fife for some time, according to the Cupar page on Wikipedia Glenrothes took over as county town in 1975. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.12.7.4 ( talk) 14:19, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
Monmouthshire is in WALES. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.22.131.233 ( talk) 20:23, 13 July 2008 (UTC)
There would be no problem if we just had one list for the whole country instead of splitting it into four sub-national lists. That would also have the advantage that the counties of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would come up top (Aberdeenshire, Anglesey, Angus, Antrim). When we split the list up, England barges to the top by force of its own alphabetical priority.
There is no reason to split Britain up. I say have one list.
Howard Alexander ( talk) 20:59, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Alnwick is not the county town of Northumberland. Morpeth is the administrative centre of Northumberland as the County Hall offices are located in Morpeth. Prior to the reshuffling of administrative boundaries in 1974, Newcastle-upon-Tyne was the County Town of Northumberland. Alnwick's claim of the County Court is irrelevant.
The following article explains why Morpeth is County Town of Northumberland:
http://www.morpethherald.co.uk/news/The-title-belongs-to-Morpeth.979686.jp —Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Tzdelski (
talk •
contribs) 19:53, 7 September 2008 (UTC)
Right point taken, your article is still incorrect as Alnwick has never been the county town of Northumberland. It was always Newcastle before Morpeth. Alnwick had very little political power with its "County Court", all judicial functions were carried out in Newcastle. There is a little clause written into a law of 1548 by the Duke of Northumberland as a footnote. This seems to be little more than a tool to gain power for himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tzdelski ( talk • contribs) 09:52, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Alnwick being the county town of Northumberland, the county court is held here once a month. ...The members of parliament and the coroners for the county of Northumberland are elected at Alnwick. However, Alnwick enjoys none of the distinctions or privileges of a county town. The county gaol is at Morpeth, where all the executions take place; and the assizes, probably for the convenience of the judges, are held at Newcastle.
Lozleader ( talk) 16:07, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
Does anyone have a reliable source for this assertion? I can't find anything about a change of county town in either the Times Digital Archive or the British Museum 19th Century Newspapers of the time. On Googling, there are a lot of wikipedia based pages that repeat the fact, and they all sem to lead back to a single source: [20]. This is a thoroughly unreliable site (the author takes the minority/fringe position that counties cannot be altered by legislation) and in any case fails WP:SELFPUB. I am about to be bold and remove the ref from Reading, Berkshire. Lozleader ( talk) 15:20, 7 March 2010 (UTC)
What in 1809 was a nominal division of honours, became more unequal as the years went by until 1868 when Abingdon ceased to be a county town.
more stuff:
(more to come)
So, it would seem that rather than being a change with a definite date, the two towns had shared the role of County Town for some time, and the function was gradually concentrated on Reading; and by the end of 1869, Abingdon had no County Town functions left. Thus, I would say that no precise date can be given, and the best that can be said is "the changeover occurred gradually, between 1867 and 1869". Regarding County records; these are no longer at Abingdon, but at Reading. Another trip, I guess. --
Redrose64 (
talk) 12:06, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
At the Court at Windsor, the 14th day of September 1868.
PRESENT,
The QUEEN's Most Excellent Majesty in Council.
WHEREAS by an Act passed in the session of Parliament holden in the third and fourth years of the reign of His late Majesty King William the Fourth, intituled "An Act for the appointment of convenient places for the holding of assizes in England and Wales", it was declared and enacted that His Majesty, by and with the advice of His Most Honourable Privy Council, should have power from time to time to order and direct at what place or places in any county in England or Wales the assizes and sessions under the commissions of gaol delivery and other commissions for the dispatch of civil and criminal business shall be holden:
Now, therefore, Her Majesty, by and with the advice of Her Privy Council, doth hereby, under and in pursuance of the said Act, order and direct that the Assizes and Sessions under the Commissions of Gaol Delivery and other Commissions for the dispatch of civil and criminal business which shall be holden in and for the county of Berks next after the date of this Order, shall be held at Reading, in the said county, and not at Abingdon or at any other place within the said county.
And the Right Honourable the Lord Chancellor of Great Britain is to give the necessary, directions herein accordingly.
-- Redrose64 ( talk) 20:00, 23 June 2010 (UTC)
Great research guys, but could I just point out that the article at Reading, Berkshire that Lozleader complained about in the first post of this thread still says that The town became the County Town (superseding Abingdon) in 1867, coupled with the fact tag that he put on back in March. I'm still trying to work out why he posted his original comment here rather than at Talk:Reading, Berkshire, but isn't the whole point of this discussion to improve this reference in that article?.
I guess I could try and plagiarise your research and cite one or more of the above references. But I think it would be much preferable if it came from the horses mouth. -- Starbois ( talk) 17:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
Is there any further description of the location in Southwark of the Surrey county administration? Looking at some maps I realised the boundary between the ancient borough of Southwark and the parish of Newington was Newington Causeway. Thus the site at Newington (now the Inner London Crown Court) fronted onto Southwark and might have been described as either "Southwark" or "Newington". The two places could be the same? MRSC ( talk) 16:40, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
A lot of these county towns are also listed as being county corporates prior to 1974. Surely the county seat wasn't set in a town that was no longer part of the county? I realize the county corporate page says that the counties corporate were effectively reintegrated into their old counties in 1882. But if that's the case then the "County towns prior to the late 19th century reforms" list here is only valid for 1882-1889. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.91.25.224 ( talk) 17:56, 12 November 2012 (UTC)
These sections were less than satisfactory. Quite apart from the fact that a lot of dates and places were wrong (Gwynedd is still extant but was missing from the current list!) there was a definite muddle over some of the places that were county towns.
1) Montgomery was not county town of Montgomeryshire prior to 1885. From the time of the Glyndwr rebellion, the county administration had been based in the county's natural centre at Welshpool.
2) Beaumaris was the seat of Anglesey County Council until 1974. However, from 1900 some administrative functions were transferred to Llangefni due to its better transport links, and when Ynys Môn (please note, not Anglesey) was reconstituted as a county, the county town was placed there.
3) The same comments can be made of the Presteigne/Llandod controversy. Llandod was not the county town of Radnorshire until after it was absorbed into Powys, but due to its central location some administrative functions were based there (the BBC article is not entirely correct - BBC Wales in particular should be treated with caution, as it is under-resourced and struggles to attract/retain good staff other than for things like Dr Who, which are financed from London).
4) Aberaeron was never the county town of Cardiganshire. After 1885 the county council was based in Aberystwyth, and the assizes were held at Lampeter. Only after 1996 when the new county of Ceredigion was formed was the county council set at Aberaeron.
Have tidied up, reordered the dates and added the missing numbers. Have also added explanatory footnotes. Hope that's all clear. 86.174.176.206 ( talk) 13:19, 15 July 2013 (UTC)
Post-council merger, Co. Waterford seems to have two administrative centres, Waterford and Dungarvan. Does that mean it also has two "county towns"? This articles gives just Waterford. The article list of urban areas in the Republic of Ireland by population just gives Dungarvan. Neither is sourced. Can we provide one? See also this discussion. 79.97.71.180 ( talk) 20:45, 3 November 2014 (UTC)
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