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This article was nominated for deletion on 15 June 2011. The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
A fact from Cornish dialect appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 24 June 2011 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
The Anglo-Cornish dialect is an important part of the history of Cornwall, and deserves an article of its own. There is not much here at the moment but it will be expanded dreckly. Govynn ( talk) 06:18, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
A section on the rise of English and decline of Cornish would be useful. Bodrugan ( talk) 12:39, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Please keep this article. The Cornish dialect is a stand-alone subject, and can't be lumped in with a vague "West Country" category. It contains many words that descend directly from the Cornish language, which other dialects of the south-west do not share, and many other features that are also unique to Cornwall, and even to specific regions of Cornwall. I find it remarkable and somewhat disturbing that a call for its deletion has even been lodged. One hopes that the reason is merely ignorance of the subject rather than bigotry. Marhek ( talk) 10:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
I would suggest that this article is renamed Cornish English to correspond with Welsh English and Hiberno-English. Bodrugan ( talk) 12:36, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
How about settling this with a Google Fight? [URL http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22Anglo-Cornish%22&word2=%22Cornish+Dialect%22] "Cornish Dialect" clearly wins 769-105 vs "Anglo-Cornish". However "Cornish English" gets 1630. "Cornu-English" gets 43. Govynn ( talk) 20:11, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Govynn ( talk) 20:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Of course, a real assessment should come from a look at the content returned by the above queries more than the numbers of results. The key task now is to add more material and add references. Naming can be settled later, and redirects can be put in place. Govynn ( talk) 20:32, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
These are in the List of Cornish dialect words and might be useful here as well:
-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 07:10, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
It is well known among Cornish people, that Anglo-Cornish speakers have been discriminated against, both for using dialect, and as a marker of Cornish ethnicity. However specific sources, of individual instances, or scholarly articles on the topic would be good to cite. Govynn ( talk) 10:24, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Having a look for information on the Nunga, there is this article - http://www.reference-global.com/doi/abs/10.1515/ijsl.1995.113.63. It′s ours to keep and call our own: reclamation of the Nunga languages in the Adelaide region, South Australia], although I don't have access to the full text, so am not sure if it anywhere directly addresses the topic of Cornish dialect. This also may be relevant, if the full text does touch on the impact of Cornish dialect. http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a908068 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Govynn ( talk • contribs) 11:48, 16 June 2011
This is what you want: http://books.google.com/books?id=oCx0D0iE2QoC&pg=PA94&dq=cornish+nunga+english&hl=en&ei=4v75TcaKKdKr8AOJwbWqCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=cornish%20nunga%20english&f=false Bodrugan ( talk) 13:04, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
ant, n, moryonen (f), moryon (coll). Bodrugan ( talk) 13:50, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I've nominated the article at Template talk:Did you know#Articles created/expanded on June 15. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 09:06, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
I have changed the wording of the first two sentences, making it more clear in my view. The previous wording could potentially lead readers to suppose that 'Anglo-Cornish', 'Cornish English', 'Cornish dialect' and 'Cornu-English' are distinct linguistic forms, clearly defined and separated from each other, rather than being a variation in name usage by the varying sources. I am also entering dangerous territory by deleting the letter s in dialects. My reading of the way in which Cornish Dialect is written about in the sources is that the geographical variations of dialect within Cornwall, are seen as variations within something that is called 'Cornish Dialect', or 'Anglo-Cornish', rather than distinct dialects associated with specifically defined regions of Cornwall. Govynn ( talk) 18:42, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
. Can anyone provide an explanation for how this comes from Cornish language influence, it is not clear. Muggetypie ( talk) 14:32, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you please give full details of any way in which my , and others recent edits to the article Anglo-Cornish introduced ideas that you assert to be incorrect, or unsupported by evidence? Further, if any ideas that were introduced, which, if not incorrect or difficult to verify, otherwise were not helpful for this online encyclopedia? I politely request that all replies are in plain English, in sentences as grammatically unambiguous as the English language allows, rather than in Wikipedia jargon, or in links to lengthy pages with their own sublinks within the often contradictory policies and guidelines of Wikipedia itself. Muggetypie ( talk) 19:22, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
"Towns and localities" were mentioned before and there is a problem saying "believed" since the meaning depends on the people who hold the belief, etc., and it becomes very subjective. The first citation provides evidence that the different parishes of west Penwith can be distinguished by a Penzance woman. That would be true of any rural society; the process of change in the 20th century has many causes and summary is not easy. There is also what linguists call codeswitching where each individual uses more than one variety depending on the circumstances.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 12:20, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Anglo-Cornish's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "dnb":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 12:01, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
As an adjective the present title is inadequate: it ought to be moved to "Cornish dialects of English" or "Cornish dialect" or "Anglo-Cornish dialect" depending on what others find acceptable.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 06:57, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
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I resisted the urge to rename this article immediately due to the editors that have contributed before and to the likely complaints that would ensue. I see the question was raised many years ago with what appeared to have been general consensus for a change, but nothing so far has happened. 1/ Anglo-Cornish means Cornish with an English influence, not the other way round. 2/ The heavily referenced article is predominantly about Cornish so the whole article is weaseled and off topic. 3/ The Cornish language lobby group has had a not insignificant input. 4/ Of the various names, Cornish English comes first in RSs, followed by Cornish dialect. The current title lags well down the list. Weighting applies here.
To be consistent with other regional varieties I suggest using Cornish dialect as the title with the other names being re-directed. Cornish English would be possibility as well. Shall we go ahead and change it? Once that is done the article can be worked on the remove a lot of the unnecessary content. Roger 8 Roger ( talk) 13:08, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Okay, I have now moved the article. There will be some tidying up to do. Roger 8 Roger ( talk) 21:03, 1 July 2019 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was nominated for deletion on 15 June 2011. The result of the discussion was speedy keep. |
A fact from Cornish dialect appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 24 June 2011 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
The Anglo-Cornish dialect is an important part of the history of Cornwall, and deserves an article of its own. There is not much here at the moment but it will be expanded dreckly. Govynn ( talk) 06:18, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
A section on the rise of English and decline of Cornish would be useful. Bodrugan ( talk) 12:39, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Please keep this article. The Cornish dialect is a stand-alone subject, and can't be lumped in with a vague "West Country" category. It contains many words that descend directly from the Cornish language, which other dialects of the south-west do not share, and many other features that are also unique to Cornwall, and even to specific regions of Cornwall. I find it remarkable and somewhat disturbing that a call for its deletion has even been lodged. One hopes that the reason is merely ignorance of the subject rather than bigotry. Marhek ( talk) 10:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
I would suggest that this article is renamed Cornish English to correspond with Welsh English and Hiberno-English. Bodrugan ( talk) 12:36, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
How about settling this with a Google Fight? [URL http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22Anglo-Cornish%22&word2=%22Cornish+Dialect%22] "Cornish Dialect" clearly wins 769-105 vs "Anglo-Cornish". However "Cornish English" gets 1630. "Cornu-English" gets 43. Govynn ( talk) 20:11, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Govynn ( talk) 20:17, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
Of course, a real assessment should come from a look at the content returned by the above queries more than the numbers of results. The key task now is to add more material and add references. Naming can be settled later, and redirects can be put in place. Govynn ( talk) 20:32, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
These are in the List of Cornish dialect words and might be useful here as well:
-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 07:10, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
It is well known among Cornish people, that Anglo-Cornish speakers have been discriminated against, both for using dialect, and as a marker of Cornish ethnicity. However specific sources, of individual instances, or scholarly articles on the topic would be good to cite. Govynn ( talk) 10:24, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
Having a look for information on the Nunga, there is this article - http://www.reference-global.com/doi/abs/10.1515/ijsl.1995.113.63. It′s ours to keep and call our own: reclamation of the Nunga languages in the Adelaide region, South Australia], although I don't have access to the full text, so am not sure if it anywhere directly addresses the topic of Cornish dialect. This also may be relevant, if the full text does touch on the impact of Cornish dialect. http://www.informaworld.com/smpp/content~db=all~content=a908068 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Govynn ( talk • contribs) 11:48, 16 June 2011
This is what you want: http://books.google.com/books?id=oCx0D0iE2QoC&pg=PA94&dq=cornish+nunga+english&hl=en&ei=4v75TcaKKdKr8AOJwbWqCQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=cornish%20nunga%20english&f=false Bodrugan ( talk) 13:04, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
ant, n, moryonen (f), moryon (coll). Bodrugan ( talk) 13:50, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
I've nominated the article at Template talk:Did you know#Articles created/expanded on June 15. Ghmyrtle ( talk) 09:06, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
I have changed the wording of the first two sentences, making it more clear in my view. The previous wording could potentially lead readers to suppose that 'Anglo-Cornish', 'Cornish English', 'Cornish dialect' and 'Cornu-English' are distinct linguistic forms, clearly defined and separated from each other, rather than being a variation in name usage by the varying sources. I am also entering dangerous territory by deleting the letter s in dialects. My reading of the way in which Cornish Dialect is written about in the sources is that the geographical variations of dialect within Cornwall, are seen as variations within something that is called 'Cornish Dialect', or 'Anglo-Cornish', rather than distinct dialects associated with specifically defined regions of Cornwall. Govynn ( talk) 18:42, 17 June 2011 (UTC)
. Can anyone provide an explanation for how this comes from Cornish language influence, it is not clear. Muggetypie ( talk) 14:32, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
Can you please give full details of any way in which my , and others recent edits to the article Anglo-Cornish introduced ideas that you assert to be incorrect, or unsupported by evidence? Further, if any ideas that were introduced, which, if not incorrect or difficult to verify, otherwise were not helpful for this online encyclopedia? I politely request that all replies are in plain English, in sentences as grammatically unambiguous as the English language allows, rather than in Wikipedia jargon, or in links to lengthy pages with their own sublinks within the often contradictory policies and guidelines of Wikipedia itself. Muggetypie ( talk) 19:22, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
"Towns and localities" were mentioned before and there is a problem saying "believed" since the meaning depends on the people who hold the belief, etc., and it becomes very subjective. The first citation provides evidence that the different parishes of west Penwith can be distinguished by a Penzance woman. That would be true of any rural society; the process of change in the 20th century has many causes and summary is not easy. There is also what linguists call codeswitching where each individual uses more than one variety depending on the circumstances.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 12:20, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of Anglo-Cornish's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.
Reference named "dnb":
I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 12:01, 25 June 2011 (UTC)
As an adjective the present title is inadequate: it ought to be moved to "Cornish dialects of English" or "Cornish dialect" or "Anglo-Cornish dialect" depending on what others find acceptable.-- Felix Folio Secundus ( talk) 06:57, 6 July 2011 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Anglo-Cornish. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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I resisted the urge to rename this article immediately due to the editors that have contributed before and to the likely complaints that would ensue. I see the question was raised many years ago with what appeared to have been general consensus for a change, but nothing so far has happened. 1/ Anglo-Cornish means Cornish with an English influence, not the other way round. 2/ The heavily referenced article is predominantly about Cornish so the whole article is weaseled and off topic. 3/ The Cornish language lobby group has had a not insignificant input. 4/ Of the various names, Cornish English comes first in RSs, followed by Cornish dialect. The current title lags well down the list. Weighting applies here.
To be consistent with other regional varieties I suggest using Cornish dialect as the title with the other names being re-directed. Cornish English would be possibility as well. Shall we go ahead and change it? Once that is done the article can be worked on the remove a lot of the unnecessary content. Roger 8 Roger ( talk) 13:08, 30 June 2019 (UTC)
Okay, I have now moved the article. There will be some tidying up to do. Roger 8 Roger ( talk) 21:03, 1 July 2019 (UTC)