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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 17:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Chick Webb was born in 1909! Why do people keep changing that date? MichaelMoore 21:18, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
A poll is being conducted at
JazzHouse.org on Chick Webb's actual birth year.
Don't rely on censuses as primary sources of birth dates. They're based on information that the census takers collected, and they did not always talk to someone who actually knew the facts. A birth certificate or similar document (like passport application) should be preferred. However, in the absence of primary sources ... a census may have to do. But is that the case? 81.226.177.175 ( talk) 08:58, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
I am writing in response to Sean O's comment, "I consider this original research," in regards to the discovery of Chick Webb's actual birthdate and his reason for deleting the information from the article page.
The original research that is not allowed is research done by a Wikipedian and is added to an article. I am not the person who discovered the actual date of birth. Dwain 14:08, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer before. I thought the Borgman article appeared to be original research
[1]. I read the article and didn't feel it proved the point. Unless someone can verify his research, I'm hesitant to take _just_ his word for it. I'm not against correcting the date: If you check out the history of
Nat King Cole and
Coleman Hawkins articles you will see I was involved in determining correct birthdates. I just want more evidence than Borgman's sayso.
That being said, I think the article is much much better with all the work you've done in documenting birthdate descrepencies. Thank you. -- SeanO 23:29, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
As I have said, and you have implicitly acknowledged awareness of, there are plenty of reliable sources for alternate years. We should not be passing our own judgment regarding degrees of reliability. It is tricky for me to give a whole series of links while on mobile but a search for "chick webb" combined with "1902" or any of the other years mentioned gives plenty of RS hits. For similar reasons, it is tricky to find past discussions about EB but they do exist and it has been noted in the past that even the "EBChecked" string in urls for their articles is no longer a guarantee that the article in question has in fact been scrutinised by an EB editorial board. It's unfortunate that he was born in the first decade of the 20th century rather than the one before or after(we could have compromised on "1890s" or "1910s" but "1900s" is ambiguous). This isn't a matter for the WP:RSN but I think we're heading towards referral to the WP:NPOVN here. Your recent change of my changes imposed a statement that is not only dubious in fact but also contradicted a consensus about that fact which existed prior to my own changes - whereas I muddied the waters of that consensus, you seem completely to have overturned it from the 1909 date discussed years ago above to one of 1905. - Sitush ( talk) 09:29, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Stating the most reliably sourced (and, incidentally, correct) date...- your assertion that it is correct is 100% POV because there are a range of reliable sources and you have decided one date is right. We can't do that & I do not fall for bully tactics. - Sitush ( talk) 11:51, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
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This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Chick Webb article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 23 March 2020 and 16 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Scdsounds.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 17:22, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Chick Webb was born in 1909! Why do people keep changing that date? MichaelMoore 21:18, 21 September 2005 (UTC)
A poll is being conducted at
JazzHouse.org on Chick Webb's actual birth year.
Don't rely on censuses as primary sources of birth dates. They're based on information that the census takers collected, and they did not always talk to someone who actually knew the facts. A birth certificate or similar document (like passport application) should be preferred. However, in the absence of primary sources ... a census may have to do. But is that the case? 81.226.177.175 ( talk) 08:58, 16 June 2012 (UTC)
I am writing in response to Sean O's comment, "I consider this original research," in regards to the discovery of Chick Webb's actual birthdate and his reason for deleting the information from the article page.
The original research that is not allowed is research done by a Wikipedian and is added to an article. I am not the person who discovered the actual date of birth. Dwain 14:08, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
I'm sorry I didn't make it clearer before. I thought the Borgman article appeared to be original research
[1]. I read the article and didn't feel it proved the point. Unless someone can verify his research, I'm hesitant to take _just_ his word for it. I'm not against correcting the date: If you check out the history of
Nat King Cole and
Coleman Hawkins articles you will see I was involved in determining correct birthdates. I just want more evidence than Borgman's sayso.
That being said, I think the article is much much better with all the work you've done in documenting birthdate descrepencies. Thank you. -- SeanO 23:29, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
As I have said, and you have implicitly acknowledged awareness of, there are plenty of reliable sources for alternate years. We should not be passing our own judgment regarding degrees of reliability. It is tricky for me to give a whole series of links while on mobile but a search for "chick webb" combined with "1902" or any of the other years mentioned gives plenty of RS hits. For similar reasons, it is tricky to find past discussions about EB but they do exist and it has been noted in the past that even the "EBChecked" string in urls for their articles is no longer a guarantee that the article in question has in fact been scrutinised by an EB editorial board. It's unfortunate that he was born in the first decade of the 20th century rather than the one before or after(we could have compromised on "1890s" or "1910s" but "1900s" is ambiguous). This isn't a matter for the WP:RSN but I think we're heading towards referral to the WP:NPOVN here. Your recent change of my changes imposed a statement that is not only dubious in fact but also contradicted a consensus about that fact which existed prior to my own changes - whereas I muddied the waters of that consensus, you seem completely to have overturned it from the 1909 date discussed years ago above to one of 1905. - Sitush ( talk) 09:29, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Stating the most reliably sourced (and, incidentally, correct) date...- your assertion that it is correct is 100% POV because there are a range of reliable sources and you have decided one date is right. We can't do that & I do not fall for bully tactics. - Sitush ( talk) 11:51, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 3 external links on Chick Webb. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
This message was posted before February 2018.
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regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 21:45, 21 November 2016 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on Chick Webb. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.
This message was posted before February 2018.
After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than
regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors
have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the
RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{
source check}}
(last update: 18 January 2022).
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 05:43, 10 December 2017 (UTC)