This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Causes of the 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources:  Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7Auto-archiving period: 180 days

This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Palestine Mid‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Palestine, a team effort dedicated to building and maintaining comprehensive, informative and balanced articles related to the geographic Palestine region, the Palestinian people and the State of Palestine on Wikipedia. Join us by visiting the project page, where you can add your name to the list of members where you can contribute to the discussions.PalestineWikipedia:WikiProject PalestineTemplate:WikiProject PalestinePalestine-related articles Mid This article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale. Israel Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Israel, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Israel on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.IsraelWikipedia:WikiProject IsraelTemplate:WikiProject IsraelIsrael-related articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Project Israel To Do: history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Assess : Rate the Unassessed Israel-related articles and Unknown-importance Israel-related articles. Categorization : Diffuse articles from Category:Companies of Israel. Cleanup : Cleanup listing for this project is available. See also the list by category and the tool's wiki page. Collaborate : Participate in WikiProject Israel Palestine Collaboration. Copyedit : Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict in 2005 Deletion sorting : Participate in discussions at WikiProject Deletion sorting/Israel. Expand : Ayala Procaccia, Diamond industry in Israel, Edna Arbel, Levin Kipnis, Rami Kleinstein, Sephardic Haredim, Zman Tel Aviv, Nachum Heiman, Public Defence (Israel), Prisoner of Zion, Trial of Benjamin Netanyahu, Day to Mark the Departure and Expulsion of Jews from the Arab Countries and Iran, Pre-Modern Aliyah See also Articles needing translation from Hebrew Wikipedia. Geographical coordinates : Add geographic coordinates to Israel articles missing geocoordinate data. Infobox : Add infoboxes to Israel articles needing infoboxes. Maintain : See Israel articles needing attention. Map : See discussion at Module:Location map/data/Israel. Add maps to articles in Wikipedia requested maps in Israel. NPOV : Jewish exodus from Arab and Muslim countries Photo : Add pictures to articles in Wikipedia requested photographs in Israel. Stubs : See Israel stubs. Update : Basic Law proposal: Israel as the Nation-State of the Jewish People Other : Translate to Hebrew : David Bar-Hayim, Guy Bavli, and Guy Oseary. Merge Nahal Rafiah ( draft, heb) into Nahal as requested by Wikipedia authority Politics Low‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. Military history: Biography / British / European / Middle East Start‑class This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history articles Start This article has been rated as Start-class on the project's quality scale. This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status: Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar and style: criterion met Supporting materials: criterion not met Associated task forces: /  Military biography task force British military history task force European military history task force Middle Eastern military history task force

Warning: active arbitration remedies The contentious topics procedure applies to this article. This article is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict, which is a contentious topic. Furthermore, the following rules apply when editing this article: You must be logged-in and extended-confirmed to edit or discuss this topic on any page (except for making edit requests, provided they are not disruptive) You may not make more than 1 revert within 24 hours on any edits related to this topic Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page. Further information The exceptions to the extended confirmed restriction are: Non-extended-confirmed editors may use the "Talk:" namespace only to make edit requests related to articles within the topic area, provided they are not disruptive. Non-extended-confirmed editors may not create new articles, but administrators may exercise discretion when deciding how to enforce this remedy on article creations. Deletion of new articles created by non-extended-confirmed editors is permitted but not required. With respect to the WP:1RR restriction: Clear vandalism of whatever origin may be reverted without restriction. Also, reverts made solely to enforce the extended confirmed restriction are not considered edit warring. Editors who violate this restriction may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offence. After being warned, contentious topics procedure can be used against any editor who repeatedly or seriously fails to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process. Contentious topic sanctions can include blocks, topic-bans, or other restrictions. Editors may report violations of these restrictions to the Arbitration enforcement noticeboard. If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. When in doubt, don't revert!

In the passage below scare quotes around the word 'transfer' followed by the parenthetical comment "a euphemism for ethnic cleansing" is more of a euphemism to launder the idea that the Rabbi is in favor of ethnic cleansing without doing the work to prove as much.

"Rabbi Chaim Simons demonstrated in 1988 that Zionist leaders in Mandatory Palestine viewed "transfer" (a euphemism for ethnic cleansing) of Arabs from the land as being crucial." 2601:1C0:CB03:C720:D0DE:51B6:B2D1:72B5 ( talk) 21:23, 20 October 2023 (UTC) reply

User:Zero0000 I hold no torch for either Kaufmann or Katz, but are you suggesting that the citation from Muhammad Nimr al-Hawari’s book is propaganda? Mistamystery ( talk) 06:34, 30 October 2023 (UTC) reply

Nobody has cited Hawari. They have only cited some unreliable sources claiming to cite Hawari. This is an important difference, see WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT. Besides that, the quotation doesn't say what some want it to say. "Smash the country"—all wartime leaders say stuff like that ; "The Arabs should conduct their aves [wives?] and children to safe areas until the fighting has died down."—a temporary evacuation of non-combatants has nothing to do with the exodus from Palestine. This is a typical example of the old-fashioned "quotation wars" which add nothing to understanding. Zero ^talk 07:30, 30 October 2023 (UTC) reply

I'm also removing this:

According to Yitschak Ben Gad, Mahmoud Abbas, then member of PLO Executive Committee, wrote an article "Madha `Alamna wa-Madha Yajib An Na`mal" [What We Have Learned and What We Should Do] and published it in "Falastineth-Thawra" [Revolutionary Palestine], the official journal of the PLO, Beirut, on March 26, 1976:

"The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live in Eastern Europe, as if we were condemned to change places with them: they moved out of their ghettos and we occupied similar ones. The Arab States succeeded in scattering the Palestinian people and in destroying their unity." ^{[1] unreliable source? [2]}

Firstly, the Ben Gad book is not a history book but just a collection of claims without context. It's way below our reliability requirements. The propagandistic nature is exemplified by the title of this page: "The PLO admits that the Arab armies caused the Palestinian refugee problem". Anyone who knows anything about this issue will be sure that the PLO would never admit such a thing, whether it is true or not. But Ben Gad claims the PLO admitted it in its official journal. Of course the quoted passage actually admits no such thing. What it actually does is blame the Arab armies for failing to protect the Palestinians from the Jewish army, thereby leaving them no choice but to flee. It does nothing to absolve the Jewish army from responsibility. This type of attack on the Arab states for not delivering the protection they promised was common. Zero ^talk 07:45, 30 October 2023 (UTC) reply

No problem here. That said, I’m curious to hunt down the original PLO journal article to see what Abbas said in full. Mistamystery ( talk) 08:06, 30 October 2023 (UTC) reply

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

I found a duplicate argument in a template call for the "location" parameter in this source:

<ref name="KarshEssential>{{Cite book |last=Karsh |first=Efrayim |author-link=Efraim Karsh |title=The Arab-Israeli conflict: the Palestine War 1948 |date=2002 |page = 87—92| publisher=Osprey | location= Oxford| isbn=978-1-84176-372-9 |series=Essential histories |location=Oxford}}</ref>

Could you please replace that with

<ref name="KarshEssential>{{Cite book |last=Karsh |first=Efrayim |author-link=Efraim Karsh |title=The Arab-Israeli conflict: the Palestine War 1948 |date=2002 |page = 87—92| publisher=Osprey | location= Oxford| isbn=978-1-84176-372-9 |series=Essential histories}}</ref>

Thanks! OpalYosutebito ( talk) 16:58, 7 November 2023 (UTC) reply

 Done by Davemck — BillHPike ( talk, contribs) 21:27, 7 November 2023 (UTC) reply

If you're going to document the expulsion of the Arabs from Mandatory Palestine, you really should consider including information from the Israeli Intelligence Service: https://www.haaretz.co.il/st/inter/Heng/1948.pdf] https://www.akevot.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/1948ISReport-Eng.pdf

In reviewing the factors that affected migration, we list the factors that had a definitive effect on population migration. Other factors, localized and smaller scale, are listed in the special reviews of migration movement in each district. The factors, in order of importance, are: 1. Direct Jewish hostile actions against Arab communities. 2. Impact of our hostile actions against communities neighboring where migrants lived (here – particularly – the fall of large neighboring communities). 3. Actions taken by the Dissidents [Irgun, Lehi]. 4. Orders and directives issued by Arab institutions and gangs. 5. Jewish Whispering operations [psychological warfare] intended to drive Arabs to flee. 6. Evacuation ultimatums. 7. Fear of Jewish retaliation upon a major Arab attack on Jews. 8. The appearance of gangs and foreign fighters near the village. 9. Fear of an Arab invasion and its consequences (mostly near the borders). 10. Arab villages isolated within purely Jewish areas. 11. Various local factors and general fear of what was to come. 2600:1700:EB40:4530:F9E1:6072:E3A8:499A ( talk) 04:25, 11 November 2023 (UTC) reply

It is present in the "Opening of archives" section and now includes a link to the document. Zero ^talk 06:08, 11 November 2023 (UTC) reply

Apparently there were plans to use biological/chemical warfare against the native Palestinians, in part to make Palestinian villages unlivable. They, (Haganah I assume) called it operation "Cast thy Bread" apparently. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00263206.2022.2122448 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2022-10-14/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/documents-confirm-israelis-poisoned-arab-wells-in-1948/00000183-d2b2-d8cc-afc7-fefed64d0000 Fanccr ( talk) 03:12, 5 January 2024 (UTC) reply

I started a thread here at 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight regarding the statement that "the causes of the 1948 Palestinian exodus are also a subject of fundamental disagreement among historians." This article says in its lead similarly that "The causes for this mass displacement is a matter of great controversy among historians, journalists, and commentators."

To the best of my knowledge there is only debate over the details of these expulsions and flights and not "fundamental disagreement". See for example this article by Ilan Pappé. IOHANNVSVERVS ( talk) 17:11, 4 April 2024 (UTC) reply