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A news item involving Carol Ann Duffy was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 2 May 2009. |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 1, 2012. |
Moved to new page to correct spelling of "Carol". Mswake 12:10 Jan 8, 2003 (UTC)
Pls dear i am a poor gentle man who want to be friend to u pls Aniah Dominic ( talk) 10:40, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Pls i truly nw your reply pls
Aniah Dominic ( talk) 10:42, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
"Carol Ann Duffy was almost appointed the British Poet Laureate in 1999 (after the death of previous Laureate Ted Hughes), but lost out on the position to Andrew Motion. A Downing Street official said that Prime Minister Tony Blair was 'worried about having a homosexual poet laureate because of how it might play in middle England."
Is this definitely true? There were rumours at the time but it seems a bit unlikely that "a Downing Street official" would have said anything quite so frank, admitting to disgraceful if not illegal bias by a highly image-conscious PM. Statement would appear to need verifying, attributing and/or toning down. Flapdragon 02:51, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
"She regards Andrew Motion as a friend and says that the idea of a contest for the position between her and him for the post was entirely invented by the newspapers."
Added the above summary of her comments heard on the BBC Radio 4 programme Book Club on Sun 5 Dec 2004. Harry 01:04, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
"She is one of the few poets in the UK to combine academic integrity with accessibility and popularity."
This may be perfectly true but doesn't seem like NPOV somehow -- who says so? Added a rather pusillanimous little "perhaps" to tone it down. Harry 01:07, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I have read that she has been awarded an OBE and a CBE. Can anyone verify this?
Do we really need this? Guinnog 19:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Is it true Murice Oldamon is her lesbian partner, and that they had a civil partnership in 2004?
Carol Ann Duffy has had some poems put in to the AQA Anthology ( ISBN 019 831881 2). It may be worth including this in the article, and others. I would do it now but I'm supposed to be revising for an English Literature Exam tomorrow! Stwalkerster talk review 18:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Also i'm sure Education for Leisure has not been removed from the AQA Anthology, its just not a named poem anymore, which means they won't ask you about it in the exam, but you can still refer to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.64.21 ( talk) 18:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Surely we can find some interesting pics to liven up the site a bit. Some covers of books? Receiving OBE etc? Spanglej ( talk) 23:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
'Controversy' is defined as "disagreement, typically when prolonged, public, and heated". The information placed under the section 'Controversies' was not controversial, simply biographical. I therefore moved the information to the Background section of the article. None of the information was changed or deleted - simply relocated.
Controversy sections are for disagreement about 'facts', not about information over which there is no disagreement but about which an editor might not like. For example, it is not controversial that Carol Ann Duffy was passed over for Poet Laureate in 1999 because of her sexuality - it is just a matter of fact. Whether or not an editor (or members of the public at large) likes that decision is of no consequence to the article.
On the other hand, there are instances where the facts of an event are not clear, and experts are documented to have heated public disagreements about the facts. This is the proper use of a Controversy section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.252.49 ( talk) 10:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Legally, the Scottish nationality does not exist!!!. It's British. Sorry if I'm wrong, I'm not a Brit. -- Maru-Spanish ( talk) 05:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Well that figures, when I saw her live five years ago she spoke with an Scottish-English Accent. And I suppose Scotland not being a sovereign state means that there is no Scottish nationality. But nationalists (Who follow NPOV most of the time but when it comes down issues of nationality they seem to magically forget it) like to think over wise, letting there agenda interfere. 88.109.131.187 ( talk) 11:41, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
The situation as to her nationality is as follows:
SamuelTheGhost ( talk) 20:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
It's a pity this argument has erupted. A similar situation existed at Francis Bacon (painter) about his Irishness, and it is all rather futile. As Alan says, "Born in Scotland to Scottish parents equals a Scot." I have to say I entirely agree with him. That is more NPOV than calling her Scottish born or British IMO. I am English on both sides of my family for at least 8 generations but regard myself as human, regarding nationalities as such pitiful human constructs. That's my ten penn'orth on this one. Someone should ask CAD what she thinks about this. thanks Peter morrell 05:08, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
She's British, if she identifies herself as Scottish, she is British... It's not a matter of what I want to be... I could say "I identify myself as Micronesian"... but, I am not a Micronesian! -- 190.49.101.168 ( talk) 16:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Greetings, i have changed the nationality back to British.. -She is poet laureate of the UK. -She was raised mostly in England. -Scotland is not a sovereign state, there fore no legal nationality. -She has not identified as Scottish. Misortie ( talk) 09:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
In addition, the media calling her Scottish is a total irrelevance to this article. When they are referring to her being Scottish, it was only because she was the first ETHNIC Scott to become poet laureate. Moreover, being poet laureate of the UK is the strongest reason for her being described as British in nationality. If she does not consider herself British, then she would have most likely turned down the role and snubbed the royal family. Misortie ( talk) 09:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Ok i have gone half/half, a bit like Chris Hoy. Theres a good reason to call her Scottish as well as British, i think you will find. Misortie ( talk) 10:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, there is no such nationality category as Scottish on wikipedia - it is not classed as a nationality. Also, under Duffy surnames CAD appears listed under British...go figure that one. Just a few thoughts. Peter morrell 05:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
+ http://www.scotland.org/ calls her the first Scottish p.l. +www.theherald.co.uk/ calls her Scottish + http://www.spl.org.uk/about/index.html: "In 2009, she accepted the post of Poet Laureate, making her the first female, Scottish Poet Laureate in the role's 400 year history. " + The official pl site does not mention Scotland or Scottish at all, only noting Glasgow. But there is an implicit reference to Scotland: it says her family moved to England. In the general pl information section, it says, "The honorary Royal post of Poet Laureate is awarded to a poet whose work is of national significance." It also includes a postal contact address for the poet. Perhaps a wik editor in the UK could write and ask. Kdammers ( talk) 05:11, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Am not sure that removing the Scottish word in the first sentence is such a good idea. Can we discuss this again? Scottish is surely as good as anything? She was born in Scotland, which makes her Scottish IMO. However, some may prefer it to say "Scottish-born British poet," for example. No big rush and no need to edit war, but can we reach consensus on this matter please? thanks Peter morrell 07:29, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Your answer misses the point. Scottish is not simply a quasi-nationality it is also an identity and being born in Scotland certainly makes her Scottish. Your answer also ignores the legitimate concerns and sensitivities of the Scottish people and subsumes and subordinates her natural identity as British, which basically means English, which has been the numerically dominant ethnic group in these isalnds for centuries. As protesters against English Imperialism, the Welsh, Scots and Irish have a genuine case for recognition of their own separate and distinctive identities. I therefore think we should have further input on this, not just from you, to achieve a genuine consensus. As it stands, the wording seems inadequate and offensive to non-English British people and it is therefore likely to get repeatedly reverted and edit warred over, perhaps endlessly. Peter morrell 12:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
I can't find that particular quote, but if that's what he said, I'd be perfectly happy to include it. SamuelTheGhost ( talk) 22:12, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry but I don't think that solves any of the current issues. We could say she is "a Scottish [refs] and British poet [refs]" and then choose 2 or 3 good cites from the lists here. Please also bear in mind there are now more than 9 times as many reputable sources saying she is Scottish as compared to those saying she is British, so we could even drop the British altogether in my opinion. just a suggestion, thanks Peter morrell 16:11, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
This is all a bit strange. I mean Andrew Motion is described as an English poet and I couldn't find any debate as to whther he was English or British. Ausseagull ( talk) 10:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
THe career section contains many lines that need to be cited as well as certain adjectives that show either original research or opinion. I have attempted to mark these to help identify lines that need to be referenced or reworded to keep from showing opinion. I don't know enough about the subject to offer any real help, but would be willing to look up sources for some of the more common phrases if needed. Mrathel ( talk) 12:44, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
According to her university webpage [1] these below are her listed awards and dates -- they do not all tally exactly with those listed on the wiki article.
Perhaps a change is in order using the above citation? Peter morrell 07:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
The lead states she is bisexual, but she is in the lesbian writers category. She is on the List of bisexual people, but is listed as L on the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people. Alfred Kinsey ( talk) 15:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Were any of the others closeted? Alfred Kinsey ( talk) 15:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I removed this, but Peter put it back:
Duffy was featured in a South Bank Show television special with Melvyn Bragg late on the evening of 6th December 2009 [1] and on Monday 7th December 2009 she made the presentation to Glasgow-born artist, Richard Wright (artist), the winner of the 2009 Turner Prize, in a ceremony in London. [2]
I don't think we should start listing when she appears on television, makes a presentation, or cuts a ribbon. SlimVirgin 18:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
References
It would be useful to clarify which 15 years were devoted to her ong-term Lesbian relationship and also when her relationship with Peter Benson (author) became established.-- Johnsoniensis ( talk) 10:25, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
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A minor point, but the sentence Her poems address issues such as oppression, gender, and violence in accessible language is crying out for an additional comma after the word "violence". 95.123.54.33 ( talk) 19:11, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Carol Ann Duffy article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page. |
This
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content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
A news item involving Carol Ann Duffy was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the In the news section on 2 May 2009. |
A fact from this article was featured on Wikipedia's Main Page in the On this day section on May 1, 2012. |
Moved to new page to correct spelling of "Carol". Mswake 12:10 Jan 8, 2003 (UTC)
Pls dear i am a poor gentle man who want to be friend to u pls Aniah Dominic ( talk) 10:40, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
Pls i truly nw your reply pls
Aniah Dominic ( talk) 10:42, 2 January 2017 (UTC)
"Carol Ann Duffy was almost appointed the British Poet Laureate in 1999 (after the death of previous Laureate Ted Hughes), but lost out on the position to Andrew Motion. A Downing Street official said that Prime Minister Tony Blair was 'worried about having a homosexual poet laureate because of how it might play in middle England."
Is this definitely true? There were rumours at the time but it seems a bit unlikely that "a Downing Street official" would have said anything quite so frank, admitting to disgraceful if not illegal bias by a highly image-conscious PM. Statement would appear to need verifying, attributing and/or toning down. Flapdragon 02:51, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)
"She regards Andrew Motion as a friend and says that the idea of a contest for the position between her and him for the post was entirely invented by the newspapers."
Added the above summary of her comments heard on the BBC Radio 4 programme Book Club on Sun 5 Dec 2004. Harry 01:04, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
"She is one of the few poets in the UK to combine academic integrity with accessibility and popularity."
This may be perfectly true but doesn't seem like NPOV somehow -- who says so? Added a rather pusillanimous little "perhaps" to tone it down. Harry 01:07, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I have read that she has been awarded an OBE and a CBE. Can anyone verify this?
Do we really need this? Guinnog 19:49, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
Is it true Murice Oldamon is her lesbian partner, and that they had a civil partnership in 2004?
Carol Ann Duffy has had some poems put in to the AQA Anthology ( ISBN 019 831881 2). It may be worth including this in the article, and others. I would do it now but I'm supposed to be revising for an English Literature Exam tomorrow! Stwalkerster talk review 18:41, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Also i'm sure Education for Leisure has not been removed from the AQA Anthology, its just not a named poem anymore, which means they won't ask you about it in the exam, but you can still refer to it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.12.64.21 ( talk) 18:22, 30 April 2009 (UTC)
Surely we can find some interesting pics to liven up the site a bit. Some covers of books? Receiving OBE etc? Spanglej ( talk) 23:34, 13 April 2009 (UTC)
'Controversy' is defined as "disagreement, typically when prolonged, public, and heated". The information placed under the section 'Controversies' was not controversial, simply biographical. I therefore moved the information to the Background section of the article. None of the information was changed or deleted - simply relocated.
Controversy sections are for disagreement about 'facts', not about information over which there is no disagreement but about which an editor might not like. For example, it is not controversial that Carol Ann Duffy was passed over for Poet Laureate in 1999 because of her sexuality - it is just a matter of fact. Whether or not an editor (or members of the public at large) likes that decision is of no consequence to the article.
On the other hand, there are instances where the facts of an event are not clear, and experts are documented to have heated public disagreements about the facts. This is the proper use of a Controversy section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.252.49 ( talk) 10:14, 1 May 2009 (UTC)
Legally, the Scottish nationality does not exist!!!. It's British. Sorry if I'm wrong, I'm not a Brit. -- Maru-Spanish ( talk) 05:45, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
Well that figures, when I saw her live five years ago she spoke with an Scottish-English Accent. And I suppose Scotland not being a sovereign state means that there is no Scottish nationality. But nationalists (Who follow NPOV most of the time but when it comes down issues of nationality they seem to magically forget it) like to think over wise, letting there agenda interfere. 88.109.131.187 ( talk) 11:41, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
The situation as to her nationality is as follows:
SamuelTheGhost ( talk) 20:14, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
It's a pity this argument has erupted. A similar situation existed at Francis Bacon (painter) about his Irishness, and it is all rather futile. As Alan says, "Born in Scotland to Scottish parents equals a Scot." I have to say I entirely agree with him. That is more NPOV than calling her Scottish born or British IMO. I am English on both sides of my family for at least 8 generations but regard myself as human, regarding nationalities as such pitiful human constructs. That's my ten penn'orth on this one. Someone should ask CAD what she thinks about this. thanks Peter morrell 05:08, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
She's British, if she identifies herself as Scottish, she is British... It's not a matter of what I want to be... I could say "I identify myself as Micronesian"... but, I am not a Micronesian! -- 190.49.101.168 ( talk) 16:43, 13 May 2009 (UTC)
Greetings, i have changed the nationality back to British.. -She is poet laureate of the UK. -She was raised mostly in England. -Scotland is not a sovereign state, there fore no legal nationality. -She has not identified as Scottish. Misortie ( talk) 09:41, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
In addition, the media calling her Scottish is a total irrelevance to this article. When they are referring to her being Scottish, it was only because she was the first ETHNIC Scott to become poet laureate. Moreover, being poet laureate of the UK is the strongest reason for her being described as British in nationality. If she does not consider herself British, then she would have most likely turned down the role and snubbed the royal family. Misortie ( talk) 09:51, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Ok i have gone half/half, a bit like Chris Hoy. Theres a good reason to call her Scottish as well as British, i think you will find. Misortie ( talk) 10:08, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
Well, there is no such nationality category as Scottish on wikipedia - it is not classed as a nationality. Also, under Duffy surnames CAD appears listed under British...go figure that one. Just a few thoughts. Peter morrell 05:52, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
+ http://www.scotland.org/ calls her the first Scottish p.l. +www.theherald.co.uk/ calls her Scottish + http://www.spl.org.uk/about/index.html: "In 2009, she accepted the post of Poet Laureate, making her the first female, Scottish Poet Laureate in the role's 400 year history. " + The official pl site does not mention Scotland or Scottish at all, only noting Glasgow. But there is an implicit reference to Scotland: it says her family moved to England. In the general pl information section, it says, "The honorary Royal post of Poet Laureate is awarded to a poet whose work is of national significance." It also includes a postal contact address for the poet. Perhaps a wik editor in the UK could write and ask. Kdammers ( talk) 05:11, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
Am not sure that removing the Scottish word in the first sentence is such a good idea. Can we discuss this again? Scottish is surely as good as anything? She was born in Scotland, which makes her Scottish IMO. However, some may prefer it to say "Scottish-born British poet," for example. No big rush and no need to edit war, but can we reach consensus on this matter please? thanks Peter morrell 07:29, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
Your answer misses the point. Scottish is not simply a quasi-nationality it is also an identity and being born in Scotland certainly makes her Scottish. Your answer also ignores the legitimate concerns and sensitivities of the Scottish people and subsumes and subordinates her natural identity as British, which basically means English, which has been the numerically dominant ethnic group in these isalnds for centuries. As protesters against English Imperialism, the Welsh, Scots and Irish have a genuine case for recognition of their own separate and distinctive identities. I therefore think we should have further input on this, not just from you, to achieve a genuine consensus. As it stands, the wording seems inadequate and offensive to non-English British people and it is therefore likely to get repeatedly reverted and edit warred over, perhaps endlessly. Peter morrell 12:18, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
I can't find that particular quote, but if that's what he said, I'd be perfectly happy to include it. SamuelTheGhost ( talk) 22:12, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
I'm sorry but I don't think that solves any of the current issues. We could say she is "a Scottish [refs] and British poet [refs]" and then choose 2 or 3 good cites from the lists here. Please also bear in mind there are now more than 9 times as many reputable sources saying she is Scottish as compared to those saying she is British, so we could even drop the British altogether in my opinion. just a suggestion, thanks Peter morrell 16:11, 30 May 2009 (UTC)
This is all a bit strange. I mean Andrew Motion is described as an English poet and I couldn't find any debate as to whther he was English or British. Ausseagull ( talk) 10:45, 18 May 2010 (UTC)
THe career section contains many lines that need to be cited as well as certain adjectives that show either original research or opinion. I have attempted to mark these to help identify lines that need to be referenced or reworded to keep from showing opinion. I don't know enough about the subject to offer any real help, but would be willing to look up sources for some of the more common phrases if needed. Mrathel ( talk) 12:44, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
According to her university webpage [1] these below are her listed awards and dates -- they do not all tally exactly with those listed on the wiki article.
Perhaps a change is in order using the above citation? Peter morrell 07:10, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
The lead states she is bisexual, but she is in the lesbian writers category. She is on the List of bisexual people, but is listed as L on the List of gay, lesbian or bisexual people. Alfred Kinsey ( talk) 15:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
Were any of the others closeted? Alfred Kinsey ( talk) 15:08, 3 June 2009 (UTC)
I removed this, but Peter put it back:
Duffy was featured in a South Bank Show television special with Melvyn Bragg late on the evening of 6th December 2009 [1] and on Monday 7th December 2009 she made the presentation to Glasgow-born artist, Richard Wright (artist), the winner of the 2009 Turner Prize, in a ceremony in London. [2]
I don't think we should start listing when she appears on television, makes a presentation, or cuts a ribbon. SlimVirgin 18:03, 18 December 2009 (UTC)
References
It would be useful to clarify which 15 years were devoted to her ong-term Lesbian relationship and also when her relationship with Peter Benson (author) became established.-- Johnsoniensis ( talk) 10:25, 17 July 2016 (UTC)
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A minor point, but the sentence Her poems address issues such as oppression, gender, and violence in accessible language is crying out for an additional comma after the word "violence". 95.123.54.33 ( talk) 19:11, 10 September 2022 (UTC)