C&O desk has been listed as one of the
History good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: June 19, 2023. ( Reviewed version). |
A fact from C&O desk appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 14 February 2012 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
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In 1920 the C&O main offices were in Cleveland, weren't they? Owned by the Van Sweringen brothers and partners, before their construction of Terminal Tower. Were the desks made in Cincinnati? Surely the commission appears in C&O business archives. Who were the four partners who received a desk in 1920? -- Wetman ( talk) 03:05, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
The article says nothing about this desk after 1993. Is its current location known, or has it been lost? - Brian Kendig ( talk) 20:34, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
In the introduction, it says "Of all the Oval Office desks this one was used there only by George H. W. Bush." However, in the History section, we read: "Presidents Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Ronald Reagan all used the desk there", and there is a picture of Jimmy Carter sitting at the desk. At first, this looks like a contradiction. Then I realized the "there" in the second reference refers to the Oval Office Study, adjacent to the Oval Office. This became clear by studying the chart. Can anyone suggest an edit that makes this clearer? Lemccbr ( talk 12:56, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
From what I can tell, the photo of Jimmy Carer using the desk "in his study" doesn't come close to matching the present " Oval Office Study" that is a small room with two windows (and I don't think a fireplace) and would not have room for this desk. Was there a renovation and was the study moved at some point after Carter? Or is the photo from a different study. TheHYPO ( talk) 20:14, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
The article states both that the desk was given by CSX Corporation, which was created by merger in 1990, and that it was given before the merger. The first President who is mentioned as having used the desk was Gerald Ford, who became President in August 1974. If the desk was given during his term, the donor would have been Chessie System, created in 1973 as a holding company for the Chesapeake & Ohio, Baltimore & Ohio, and Western Maryland railroads. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ironsides01 ( talk • contribs) 19:54, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
@ Ironsides01 and GA-RT-22: I finally found a source! The desk was donated to the White House during the Reagan administration. The Brookings article is wrong! It is impossible for Ford or Carter to have used it. I'll work on updating everything soon. [5] -- Found5dollar ( talk) 21:10, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
I don't think it really matters all that much, but the rules for ellipses in quotations are at MOS:ELLIPSIS. They suggest we should use them in this case. I have added the prescribed non-breaking space, and moved the period outside the quote per MOS:LQ. GA-RT-22 ( talk) 21:37, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Just found an image of HW Bush using the desk in his VP office. [6] I don't have time right now to track down the copyright but I'm leaving this here so I don't forget it and can work on it later. -- Found5dollar ( talk) 19:48, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
I've been finding some really tantalizing breadcrumbs about the history of this desk which cold be super interesting if true. The only issue is that there is next to no information and alot of what im discovering are pictures, partial snippets of articles and incomplete stuff. Alot of this just doesn't line up. here are the breadcrumbs I have in roughly chronological order:
I'm starting to get somewhere with all of this but it is still just being tenuously held together. I'm going to keep on digging.-- Found5dollar ( talk) 00:30, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Look at this INCREDABLE image of the C&O during the transition from Bus to Clinton, the Resolute is to the left broken down into its component parts! [18] This is shocking and shows how the resolute is constructed and documents the last moment the C&O was in the office. I'm blown away!-- Found5dollar ( talk) 02:49, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Finally found the document we've been looking for! A memo from Clem Conger, the then White House Curator and previous director of the Office of Fine Arts, in 1975 to Ford noting the new "Historic Items in the President's Study." it says:
"Among the items of historic interest which have been recently placed in your study in the West Wing are the following:... Pedestal Desk-This desk is one of four made to order by the Van Swearingen brothers, former owners of the C&0 Railway about 1920 for the headquarters of the C&0 Terminal Skyscraper in Cleveland, Ohio. It was made by superior craftsmen who modeled it after an English 18th century partner's desk. It is on loan from Mr. Hay Watkins, Chairman of the Board of the Chessie System."
So basically it looks like the desk was loaned to be on display in the Diplomatic Reception Rooms, U.S. Department of State during their renovations beginning in 1961, some time between 1969-1974 was loaned to the white house, was moved to the Oval Office Study in 1975, was donated to the White House sometime during the Reagan administration (1981-1989), then was used as Bush's Oval Office desk.
Phew. that took a while to figure out.
still alot more to discover but I feel comfortable now finally updating the page since we hanve a stronger handle on where the desk actually came from. -- Found5dollar ( talk) 22:23, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Per the accession number I think we can infer that the desk was acquired by the white house in 1987. [19] do we think I need a source for how these numbers work? -- Found5dollar ( talk) 15:48, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
just found this [20] great image of the desk after it had been moved out of the White House. It is referenced as being from Life in 1993 but I've searched through all of the issues around the time of the inauguration and cant find it anywhere...-- Found5dollar ( talk) 14:26, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
A "Walnut and Burl Table Desk" designed by Rorimer-Brooks' chief designer William B. Green, was on display at the Cleveland Museum of Art's May Show in 1923. This desk won first prize in the furniture category. Unfortuantly on the entry card it clearly states that no images were allowed to be taken of the desk. I think it is highly likely this desk is one of the four that ended up in the terminal tower. but with out an image or more info I can't be certain. Is it worth including this info in the article clearly stating that it is a possibility these were the same desks but we just don't know? [21] [22]-- Found5dollar ( talk) 21:43, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Sammi Brie ( talk · contribs) 08:35, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
(Criteria marked are unassessed)
Not necessary for GA, but included to promote better articles.
@ Sammi Brie,thank you for the review. I believe I have addressed all of your concerns and notes. Please see my comments above. Let me know if there is anything else you see that needs working on.-- Found5dollar ( talk) 18:11, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
Apologies, I don't do much of this. Do questions about a GA review go in the GA Review section interleaved with the comments; in a separate sub-section at the bottom; or in a whole separate section?
Is there a guideline that calls for templated citations? I prefer them myself, but I thought their use was a matter of personal taste.
The long-ish quotes don't seem excessive to me. They are long enough to call for block quotes, and I can convert them if needed. Is this a question of style or of copyright? The MOS has a section on how to format block quotes, so obviously long-ish quotes aren't entirely prohibited. I think we only have two? The Conger quote tells an interesting story and I'd like to keep it. The Miller quote is less compelling, I can paraphrase it if needed. GA-RT-22 ( talk) 19:26, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
I just removed this section, but maybe, someday we will have the sources to put it back in:
A "Walnut and Burl Table Desk" designed by Rorimer-Brooks's chief designer William B. Green, was on display at the Cleveland Museum of Art's May Show in 1923. This desk won first prize in the furniture category. [1] Unfortunately on the entry card it clearly states that no reproduction images were allowed to be taken of the desk [2] so while the description of the desk on display matches the four desks created for the Van Sweringen's executive offices, it may be impossible to definitively state this award winning desk is the same designs as the C&O desk. Found5dollar ( talk) 22:06, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
References
C&O desk has been listed as one of the
History good articles under the
good article criteria. If you can improve it further,
please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can
reassess it. Review: June 19, 2023. ( Reviewed version). |
A fact from C&O desk appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 14 February 2012 (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
This article is rated GA-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
|
In 1920 the C&O main offices were in Cleveland, weren't they? Owned by the Van Sweringen brothers and partners, before their construction of Terminal Tower. Were the desks made in Cincinnati? Surely the commission appears in C&O business archives. Who were the four partners who received a desk in 1920? -- Wetman ( talk) 03:05, 14 February 2012 (UTC)
The article says nothing about this desk after 1993. Is its current location known, or has it been lost? - Brian Kendig ( talk) 20:34, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
In the introduction, it says "Of all the Oval Office desks this one was used there only by George H. W. Bush." However, in the History section, we read: "Presidents Gerald Ford, Jimmy Carter, and Ronald Reagan all used the desk there", and there is a picture of Jimmy Carter sitting at the desk. At first, this looks like a contradiction. Then I realized the "there" in the second reference refers to the Oval Office Study, adjacent to the Oval Office. This became clear by studying the chart. Can anyone suggest an edit that makes this clearer? Lemccbr ( talk 12:56, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
From what I can tell, the photo of Jimmy Carer using the desk "in his study" doesn't come close to matching the present " Oval Office Study" that is a small room with two windows (and I don't think a fireplace) and would not have room for this desk. Was there a renovation and was the study moved at some point after Carter? Or is the photo from a different study. TheHYPO ( talk) 20:14, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
The article states both that the desk was given by CSX Corporation, which was created by merger in 1990, and that it was given before the merger. The first President who is mentioned as having used the desk was Gerald Ford, who became President in August 1974. If the desk was given during his term, the donor would have been Chessie System, created in 1973 as a holding company for the Chesapeake & Ohio, Baltimore & Ohio, and Western Maryland railroads. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ironsides01 ( talk • contribs) 19:54, 23 December 2020 (UTC)
@ Ironsides01 and GA-RT-22: I finally found a source! The desk was donated to the White House during the Reagan administration. The Brookings article is wrong! It is impossible for Ford or Carter to have used it. I'll work on updating everything soon. [5] -- Found5dollar ( talk) 21:10, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
I don't think it really matters all that much, but the rules for ellipses in quotations are at MOS:ELLIPSIS. They suggest we should use them in this case. I have added the prescribed non-breaking space, and moved the period outside the quote per MOS:LQ. GA-RT-22 ( talk) 21:37, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
Just found an image of HW Bush using the desk in his VP office. [6] I don't have time right now to track down the copyright but I'm leaving this here so I don't forget it and can work on it later. -- Found5dollar ( talk) 19:48, 18 January 2021 (UTC)
I've been finding some really tantalizing breadcrumbs about the history of this desk which cold be super interesting if true. The only issue is that there is next to no information and alot of what im discovering are pictures, partial snippets of articles and incomplete stuff. Alot of this just doesn't line up. here are the breadcrumbs I have in roughly chronological order:
I'm starting to get somewhere with all of this but it is still just being tenuously held together. I'm going to keep on digging.-- Found5dollar ( talk) 00:30, 20 January 2021 (UTC)
Look at this INCREDABLE image of the C&O during the transition from Bus to Clinton, the Resolute is to the left broken down into its component parts! [18] This is shocking and shows how the resolute is constructed and documents the last moment the C&O was in the office. I'm blown away!-- Found5dollar ( talk) 02:49, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Finally found the document we've been looking for! A memo from Clem Conger, the then White House Curator and previous director of the Office of Fine Arts, in 1975 to Ford noting the new "Historic Items in the President's Study." it says:
"Among the items of historic interest which have been recently placed in your study in the West Wing are the following:... Pedestal Desk-This desk is one of four made to order by the Van Swearingen brothers, former owners of the C&0 Railway about 1920 for the headquarters of the C&0 Terminal Skyscraper in Cleveland, Ohio. It was made by superior craftsmen who modeled it after an English 18th century partner's desk. It is on loan from Mr. Hay Watkins, Chairman of the Board of the Chessie System."
So basically it looks like the desk was loaned to be on display in the Diplomatic Reception Rooms, U.S. Department of State during their renovations beginning in 1961, some time between 1969-1974 was loaned to the white house, was moved to the Oval Office Study in 1975, was donated to the White House sometime during the Reagan administration (1981-1989), then was used as Bush's Oval Office desk.
Phew. that took a while to figure out.
still alot more to discover but I feel comfortable now finally updating the page since we hanve a stronger handle on where the desk actually came from. -- Found5dollar ( talk) 22:23, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
Per the accession number I think we can infer that the desk was acquired by the white house in 1987. [19] do we think I need a source for how these numbers work? -- Found5dollar ( talk) 15:48, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
just found this [20] great image of the desk after it had been moved out of the White House. It is referenced as being from Life in 1993 but I've searched through all of the issues around the time of the inauguration and cant find it anywhere...-- Found5dollar ( talk) 14:26, 28 February 2021 (UTC)
A "Walnut and Burl Table Desk" designed by Rorimer-Brooks' chief designer William B. Green, was on display at the Cleveland Museum of Art's May Show in 1923. This desk won first prize in the furniture category. Unfortuantly on the entry card it clearly states that no images were allowed to be taken of the desk. I think it is highly likely this desk is one of the four that ended up in the terminal tower. but with out an image or more info I can't be certain. Is it worth including this info in the article clearly stating that it is a possibility these were the same desks but we just don't know? [21] [22]-- Found5dollar ( talk) 21:43, 4 January 2022 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
GA toolbox |
---|
Reviewing |
Reviewer: Sammi Brie ( talk · contribs) 08:35, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
(Criteria marked are unassessed)
Not necessary for GA, but included to promote better articles.
@ Sammi Brie,thank you for the review. I believe I have addressed all of your concerns and notes. Please see my comments above. Let me know if there is anything else you see that needs working on.-- Found5dollar ( talk) 18:11, 13 June 2023 (UTC)
Apologies, I don't do much of this. Do questions about a GA review go in the GA Review section interleaved with the comments; in a separate sub-section at the bottom; or in a whole separate section?
Is there a guideline that calls for templated citations? I prefer them myself, but I thought their use was a matter of personal taste.
The long-ish quotes don't seem excessive to me. They are long enough to call for block quotes, and I can convert them if needed. Is this a question of style or of copyright? The MOS has a section on how to format block quotes, so obviously long-ish quotes aren't entirely prohibited. I think we only have two? The Conger quote tells an interesting story and I'd like to keep it. The Miller quote is less compelling, I can paraphrase it if needed. GA-RT-22 ( talk) 19:26, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
I just removed this section, but maybe, someday we will have the sources to put it back in:
A "Walnut and Burl Table Desk" designed by Rorimer-Brooks's chief designer William B. Green, was on display at the Cleveland Museum of Art's May Show in 1923. This desk won first prize in the furniture category. [1] Unfortunately on the entry card it clearly states that no reproduction images were allowed to be taken of the desk [2] so while the description of the desk on display matches the four desks created for the Van Sweringen's executive offices, it may be impossible to definitively state this award winning desk is the same designs as the C&O desk. Found5dollar ( talk) 22:06, 9 June 2023 (UTC)
References