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Political popularity upon leaving office was higher than Reagan, which makes Clinton the most popular President since Kennedy. This should be noted in the intro, b/c it defines his overall performance as President.
The intro this article is too short. ~ UBeR 22:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
BTW I thought the discussion page was getting long, have created new archive, but have left this one as recent on the talk page. Also there was nothing on oklahoma city bombings on the main article page. If anyone has any reference sources can someone please write a sentance or two somewhere in the main article. As I recall this had a large effect on Clintons presidency and he made a very public speech in the aftermath, at the service held afterwards. LordHarris 01:00, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Indicating that Clinton was the third-youngest U.S. president and then naming the two younger presidents is correct but begs for fuller edification. May I suggest something on the order: At 46, Clinton was the third-youngest person to serve as president; after President Theodore Roosevelt, age 42, and President John F. Kennedy, age 43. -- Curiouscdngeorge 23:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Upper case, lower case, which case is capitalized ?
A number of well-meaning wordsmiths are firm about two aspects of capitalization. First, if it refers to the first letter of the first word of any given sentence, then choose upper case. Secondly, if it refers to a title of office, then choose upper case (for that first letter).
For instance, as examples, they might cite:
1a. John Kennedy was the most beloved President of the United States.
2a. Lorraine Hargrave failed in his bid to be Governor of California.
3a. Historians agree that George Washington was the first President of the United States, Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States; but, they do not agree who was greater.
Each instance of capitalizaton, re reasons of title, is incorrect.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, World Book, Associated Press Manual of Style, Chicago Manual of Style, and Guardian Manual of Style, simply being a title is insufficient cause for upper case.
The title must be intimately united to the name of the individual, such that, it constitutes their name and not solely a description of their occupation or function.
So that, in the same examples, these authorities would cite:
1b. John Kennedy was the most beloved president of the United States.
2b. Lorraine Hargrave failed in his bid to be governor of California.
3b. Historians agree that George Washington was the first president of the United States, Lincoln was the 16th president of the United States; but, they do not agree who was greater.
More examples of correct and incorrect usage:
1a. Only when President (correct) Johnson . . .
1b. Only when president (incorrect) Johnson . . .
2a. We'll take this to Governor (correct) Libby, the 3rd governor (correct) of Nevada, . . .
2b. We'll take this to governor (incorrect) Libby, the 3rd Governor (incorrect) of Nevada, . . .
Only when the title is tight with the name and preceeds it, is it capitalized - all other instances, you don't.
Note, I don't hold this because my daddy, mommy, or 3rd-grade teacher, told me so; likewise, I don't hold this because I heard or read "something", "somewhere", about the need to capitalize titles.
Look up any specific American president, English prime minister, or Big Cheese governor or premier, in a reputable reference (as those mentioned), to prove my thinking wrong.
If my understanding is incorrect, please demonstrate in what manner - with a supporting reference - that I can access and verify via the library. Thanks. -- Curiouscdngeorge 23:08, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Manual of Style quotes: Titles such as president, king, or emperor start with a capital letter when used as a title (followed by a name): "President Nixon", not "president Nixon". When used generically, they should be in lower case: "De Gaulle was the French president." So that, "President Clinton . . ." and "Clinton was the American president" are each correct. However, "Clinton was the American President" or "Clinton was the 42nd American President" are not correct [Correct: "Clinton was the 42nd American president."] So, according to the Wikipedia Style Manual (and others cited above) the correct reading is: "Clinton was the 42nd American president." Thanks for the reference, I'm glad I'm the one that read it. - Curiouscdngeorge 23:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, Orangemarlin, for your contribution; but, there are certain statements you made which are in error. I changed "Clinton was the 42nd American President", which is incorrect, to "Clinton was the 42nd American president", which is correct (see Wikipedia:Manual of Style) [it is an error to state I edited otherwise]. With respect to WP:CIVIL, you'll note I thanked you for your reference and stated my satisfaction in being the one that read it. Telling me "yeah, I can read" is something I assumed, but I'm glad for your discovery. But, as KeL's contribution proves, there is a wide margin between being able to read and understanding what one reads. -- Curiouscdngeorge 00:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Though it has a citation, the Freemasonry reference in the "Early Years" section seems forced. I am considering removing it as non-notable. Wanted to post this for discussion before doing so. K. Scott Bailey 21:48, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
<removed indents>Actually Kscottbailey, you have no right whatsoever to censor anything posted in a discussion section. Please see the following:
Editing others' comments is generally not allowed. Exceptions are:
You'd have a difficult case to make that any of those 4 items were violated. So, please quit deleting or censoring anything written here. Orangemarlin 00:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Some of the images need a fair use rationale, or since its showing him in his presidential duties, the license can be changed so a fur is not required. -- Nehrams2020 00:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
The main article reads that Jones lawsuit against Clinton was dismissed. This is completely untrue. Clinton settled with Jones for $850,000 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anchovy1 ( talk • contribs) 16:07, 9 March 2007 UTC.
talk 16 March 2007
The article states
his first term also was fraught with difficulties, including an unpopular motor vehicle tax and citizens' anger over the escape of Cuban prisoners (from the Mariel boatlift)
Were these prisoners detained for criminal acts, or refugees awaiting process? This needs clarifying because the Marielitos overwhelmingly belonged to the latter group.-- Zleitzen (talk) 16:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
this is one of the worst presidents in US history (in my opinion the worst since Truman) many of the problems e.g. Iraq that are being dealt with by the present government are the result of actions and inaction during the Clinton years, and the article does nothing, nothing to explain why this is the case, there is no drawing together of the multitude of political, sexual and financial scandals that beset the Clinton regime in any meaningful way that can relate to policy issues. while i see that there must be attributable sources surely there has been enuf academic and journalistic interest in clintons problems so that there is something to quote out there on some meaningful hypotheses/theories about why and how things did get so messed up (sometimes only manifesting after he had gone - eg Iraq) Richy-rik 04:17, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
ok thanks for the comments, to try and be more "neutral" then :- i believe this article needs to contain not just a list of Clintons acts but also an analysis of the reasons, overt and covert for those acts and also an analysis of the effects of those acts on in the years after his reign was over.... i do believe that if a person with a detailed knowledge of US political journalism and modern history was to write such a section for the article, even with the neutral POV rule the majority of the sources would point to a critical conclusion as to clintons impact on world affairs.... i guess i am asking for SOMEONE to do this section, whatever the conclusion, i really don't have this source citation knowledge myself and don't have time to research the references.
virtues of current presidents notwithstanding I believe that the worst president may have been Harding who bye the way was largely responsible for the great depression. but blaming Clinton for this current conflict would be like blaming the Kaiser for the holocaust. 72.189.79.72 08:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
The article says the Clinton "lied under oath about his relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky". This is not technically true and is the source of much debate, about which there is no uniform consensus. The sentence should read "allegedly lied under oath" or "was accused of lying under oath."
I looked up a reference and changed the language to fit the citation. Maybe not a big deal, but the reference (#12 when I saw it...citation is a Press Conference) says (paraphrased) income over 200k, not wealthiest 1.2%. Are these 2 figures the same? If so, consider adding a 2nd citation linking 200k and 1.2% KMCtoday 18:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm no expert on Bill Clinton, but there seems to be a problem. The article says in the introduction that he was born "William Jefferson Blythe III" with a citation [1], but in the first section of the article, it suggests that he was born "William Jefferson Blythe IV" with the same citation.
Anyone? Rageous 16:30, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
There is no mention of the war in Bosnia or the rocket attack on a Syrian hospital. Both of which were significant events during his presidency. -- Darth Borehd 06:14, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Would some one please comment on the furniture Clintons took from the White House when they left? Thank you.
I noticed that Monica was on the Sex Scandal list, but not Bill. It takes two to tango, as they say. I have added him, feel free to change it but only if explaining why. CodeCarpenter 16:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree...notice how the word IMPEACHMENT is not very prominent on this page. hello!!! Try and tell me that wasn't a major event. Let's not be blind people and report the facts how they were HE WAS IMPEACHED!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.89.24.219 ( talk • contribs) 11:40, 15 April 2007
he wasn't impeached for having sex, as far as i know thats still legal. sex had so very little to do with the impeachment but if all you remember is from t.v. news... well sex sells 72.189.79.72 09:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
User Hetfield1987 has indicated he believes the article is too long (but has not noted that here in the discussion section.) I suggest that the article is roughly the same length as both Clinton's immediate predecessor and successor and this tag be removed until a consensus to include it is reached. (And that Tarc is right, this is a non-NPOV drive-by tagging) Gruber76 17:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Is it not notable that he was the first U.S. president to visit Vietnam?-- M a s 06:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I thought the authors of this article would like to hear of this review of the article. In an attempt to judge the reliability of Wikipedia, The Denver post asked 5 experts to review wikipedia articles, including this one [3].
The review has the following to say about this article:
Jens Nielsen 15:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I think you missed the back-handed-compliment that “it looks like it was written by the Clinton Library” means it looks like it was written by an source affiliated with Clinton.
Actually, this looks like it’s an insult to the Clinton Library. The Clinton Library wrote in a short one-page biography:
In 1998, his relationship with a young White House intern resulted in the President’s impeachment by the House of Representatives. A trial in the Senate found the President not guilty of the charges brought against him. President Clinton apologized for his conduct and vowed to keep working as hard as he could for the American people. As a result, Bill Clinton left office with historically high approval ratings for the job he had done as the 42nd President of the United States.
http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/bios-WJC.html
which is also on the official white house page
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/bc42.html
while the much longer Wikipedia article only has the same length and blames the Republicans in EVERY sentence.
On January 21, 1998, a controversy was raised by the media and prominent Republicans[29] over Clinton's relationship with a young White House intern, Monica Lewinsky, resulting in the Lewinsky scandal. In a lame duck session after the 1998 elections, the Republican-controlled House voted to impeach Clinton for matters relating to the scandal. The Republican-controlled Senate then voted to acquit Clinton the following year, and he remained in office to complete his term.[30] Undog 04:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
On the page, where it says his birth date it says:
Born: August 19, 1946 (age 60)
74.92.251.34 16:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I have made several large edits and thought I would just explain here. Ive reorganised the post presidential section so its now a lot more clear and makes sense. I have removed a lot of repeated information and changed the style of some sentances. Ive added about twenty references and have expanded some sections, adding info on Clinton and his wives candidacy for democratic nom for example. Hopefully the article now seems a lot more organised, referenced etc. LordHarris 16:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
This article is undergoing reevaluation for its current GA status. Happyme22 04:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
The picture has Bentsen as Tres. Sec., and therefore should not say 1997. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.2.72.220 ( talk) 19:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC).
Article now reads "Though initially well-received in political circles, it was ultimately doomed by well-organized opposition from conservatives, the American Medical Association, and the health insurance industry."
Isn't this just opinion? http://www.princeton.edu/~starr/20starr.html What kind of magazine is "American Prospect"? It says..."health care reform dead. The funeral was private; no crowds gathered in mourning.............the complexity of the plans and onslaught of criticism had even left many supporters bewildered and uncertain.
So should we list opponents included bewildered supporters?
I don't know the answer but I think the current wording is not completely correct and smells of some kind of bias. Chergles 01:36, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
(Not sure this is in the right place - I'm a novice at this) One thing that jumped out at me immediately when I came (I wanted to check on his age) was that the article lists him as "Preceded by George H. W. Bush Succeeded by George W. Bush" when it is should be the other way around 72.160.72.166 16:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC) Denis
Preceded = before
succeeded = after
72.189.79.72 09:34, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I added Ann Coulter's book, High Crimes and Misdemeanors to the popular books section, under Further reading. This was reverted by user Gdo01 with a note of "Ann Coulter is not Bill Clinton". I do not think this is a valid reason (nor do I quite understand it).
The Ann Coulter book is relevant, she is a legal professional, and there are similar (albeit different) books listed in this same section. I believe this book deserves a link. - Ajmastrean 17:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
tall sickingly thin blond radical right nutjob- coulter
short slovenly fat brown haired radical left BS factory- michael moore
i would no more want him on a GWB article than i want her on Clintons
by the way just because somethings popular dosent mean its good or accurate. in fact i bet there are roughly the same number or more users of heroin in the world than there are readers of her books. 72.189.79.72 10:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
By a vote of 5-1, this article shall keep Good Article status. The review discussion can be seen here. Regards, LaraLove T/ C 05:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I feel that it should be mentioned that he engaged in anal-oral contact with Monica Lewinksy. This is in the Starr report and I feel that it was important that the people know that their president was committing these acts which at the time were illegal in Texas until Lawrence v. Texas.-- William Henry Harrison 19:06, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2316200920070523
I would like this to be added under 'Honors and accolades' or where ever appropriate.
The first sentence of this article refers to Bill Clinton as GCL, referring to an honor he received from the government of Papua New Guinea. However, even though other presidents such as Eisenhower and Reagan have received honors from other countries which would entitle them to postnominal letters, those honors are mentioned much further down in their articles, not in the first sentence. In fact, no other 20th-century president has any foreign honors identified by postnominal letters in the introduction to his article, and Clinton is not referred to as "Bill Clinton, GCL" in his own country's media or any other normal context in the United States, as far as I know. I would recommend removing the Papua New Guinea GCL from the first sentence and listing it under Clinton's honors and awards only. -- Metropolitan90 07:50, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Can we get some sort of attribution on this inflammatory, idiotic Rush Limbaugh-like claim? Wikipedia really needs to remove the lies and Fox/Rush/Drudge propaganda that the winguts routinely insert in various articles on this site. Otherwise Wiki will have zero credibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.169.155.6 ( talk) 21:20, 29 May 2007
This article is so full of left wing POV pushing it reads like it was taken from his autobiogrophy, BLP is one thing, but why are there NO notable cirtisms present? --— (Kepin) RING THE LIBERTY BELL 17:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I'M getting so tired of saying this WIKIPEDIA IS FOR FACTS. period. if you cant handle your facts without a right wing bias then watch fox news. if you cant handle them with out the left watch cnn or most local news sources. but for the love of his noodled appendages stay off my wiki! 72.189.79.72 09:48, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I think it's ironic that the article connects a tax rise on wealthy Americans to economic progress. It would be safer to connect the economic growth to, say, the rise of the Internet, considerable technological advances, and increased worker productivity. Safest of all, the economic recovery began before Bill Clinton assumed office. Jessemckay 20:49, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
There's some mention of deficit reduction and the surplus in the article. There's no doubt that the 1993 Omnibus Reconciliation Act lowered the deficit, which in turn reduced debt interest. This is likely to boost the economy. Most economists understand this, including Greenspan:
"I think it is important that some major credible deficit reduction bill be passed. ... I fear that (without it), the markets would respond in a negative fashion, Greenspan said.
A package that lowered the five-year deficit reduction target from $500 billion to $400 billion, for example, would lack credibility, he said. If the financial markets become convinced that Clinton and Congress will not achieve meaningful deficit reduction, they are likely to force long-term interest rates higher as insurance against future inflation.
"If the markets perceive that we are backing off the size of the commitment, I think that they will react appropriately negatively, because it is suggesting that the will of the Congress and the administration to carry forward, to finally bring this process to success requires something large, Greenspan said.
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V113/N30/budget.30w.html
Therefore, the article should include this connection.
Fom what I've seen, there's little in this article about the economic record. There's no mention of the 3.7% real GDP growth average.
http://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdpchg.xls
Nothing about a job growth of 20 million:
http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cpsatab1.htm
Compared to Wikipedia articles on other president's this article is currently lacking. Gmb92 05:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)gmb92
Clinton voluntarily suspended his law license for five years. When threatened with disbarment by the supreme court, he surrendered his credentials to avoid that result. Clinton has never been disbarred, so that heading and section need to be corrected. See the discussion in the disbarment topic for more on this. -- 69.208.244.188 22:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
The Public Image section reads:
This is PoV, is it not? The implication is that Clinton was popular mainly because of a public image campaign and "sound-bite-ready" dialogue. I can reference a source that shows the public perception campaign of his successor being far more sophisticated yet has yielded little long-term results. Regardless, this is PoV. The next sentence reads:
If you look at the source for this, the only reference to "MTV president" is as follows:
So perhaps this should be qualified with "religious conservatives" if mentioned at all. Gmb92 15:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)gmb92
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
Political popularity upon leaving office was higher than Reagan, which makes Clinton the most popular President since Kennedy. This should be noted in the intro, b/c it defines his overall performance as President.
The intro this article is too short. ~ UBeR 22:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
BTW I thought the discussion page was getting long, have created new archive, but have left this one as recent on the talk page. Also there was nothing on oklahoma city bombings on the main article page. If anyone has any reference sources can someone please write a sentance or two somewhere in the main article. As I recall this had a large effect on Clintons presidency and he made a very public speech in the aftermath, at the service held afterwards. LordHarris 01:00, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
Indicating that Clinton was the third-youngest U.S. president and then naming the two younger presidents is correct but begs for fuller edification. May I suggest something on the order: At 46, Clinton was the third-youngest person to serve as president; after President Theodore Roosevelt, age 42, and President John F. Kennedy, age 43. -- Curiouscdngeorge 23:03, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Upper case, lower case, which case is capitalized ?
A number of well-meaning wordsmiths are firm about two aspects of capitalization. First, if it refers to the first letter of the first word of any given sentence, then choose upper case. Secondly, if it refers to a title of office, then choose upper case (for that first letter).
For instance, as examples, they might cite:
1a. John Kennedy was the most beloved President of the United States.
2a. Lorraine Hargrave failed in his bid to be Governor of California.
3a. Historians agree that George Washington was the first President of the United States, Lincoln was the 16th President of the United States; but, they do not agree who was greater.
Each instance of capitalizaton, re reasons of title, is incorrect.
According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, World Book, Associated Press Manual of Style, Chicago Manual of Style, and Guardian Manual of Style, simply being a title is insufficient cause for upper case.
The title must be intimately united to the name of the individual, such that, it constitutes their name and not solely a description of their occupation or function.
So that, in the same examples, these authorities would cite:
1b. John Kennedy was the most beloved president of the United States.
2b. Lorraine Hargrave failed in his bid to be governor of California.
3b. Historians agree that George Washington was the first president of the United States, Lincoln was the 16th president of the United States; but, they do not agree who was greater.
More examples of correct and incorrect usage:
1a. Only when President (correct) Johnson . . .
1b. Only when president (incorrect) Johnson . . .
2a. We'll take this to Governor (correct) Libby, the 3rd governor (correct) of Nevada, . . .
2b. We'll take this to governor (incorrect) Libby, the 3rd Governor (incorrect) of Nevada, . . .
Only when the title is tight with the name and preceeds it, is it capitalized - all other instances, you don't.
Note, I don't hold this because my daddy, mommy, or 3rd-grade teacher, told me so; likewise, I don't hold this because I heard or read "something", "somewhere", about the need to capitalize titles.
Look up any specific American president, English prime minister, or Big Cheese governor or premier, in a reputable reference (as those mentioned), to prove my thinking wrong.
If my understanding is incorrect, please demonstrate in what manner - with a supporting reference - that I can access and verify via the library. Thanks. -- Curiouscdngeorge 23:08, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
The Wikipedia:Manual of Style quotes: Titles such as president, king, or emperor start with a capital letter when used as a title (followed by a name): "President Nixon", not "president Nixon". When used generically, they should be in lower case: "De Gaulle was the French president." So that, "President Clinton . . ." and "Clinton was the American president" are each correct. However, "Clinton was the American President" or "Clinton was the 42nd American President" are not correct [Correct: "Clinton was the 42nd American president."] So, according to the Wikipedia Style Manual (and others cited above) the correct reading is: "Clinton was the 42nd American president." Thanks for the reference, I'm glad I'm the one that read it. - Curiouscdngeorge 23:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, Orangemarlin, for your contribution; but, there are certain statements you made which are in error. I changed "Clinton was the 42nd American President", which is incorrect, to "Clinton was the 42nd American president", which is correct (see Wikipedia:Manual of Style) [it is an error to state I edited otherwise]. With respect to WP:CIVIL, you'll note I thanked you for your reference and stated my satisfaction in being the one that read it. Telling me "yeah, I can read" is something I assumed, but I'm glad for your discovery. But, as KeL's contribution proves, there is a wide margin between being able to read and understanding what one reads. -- Curiouscdngeorge 00:32, 17 February 2007 (UTC)
Though it has a citation, the Freemasonry reference in the "Early Years" section seems forced. I am considering removing it as non-notable. Wanted to post this for discussion before doing so. K. Scott Bailey 21:48, 28 February 2007 (UTC)
<removed indents>Actually Kscottbailey, you have no right whatsoever to censor anything posted in a discussion section. Please see the following:
Editing others' comments is generally not allowed. Exceptions are:
You'd have a difficult case to make that any of those 4 items were violated. So, please quit deleting or censoring anything written here. Orangemarlin 00:46, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
Some of the images need a fair use rationale, or since its showing him in his presidential duties, the license can be changed so a fur is not required. -- Nehrams2020 00:19, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
The main article reads that Jones lawsuit against Clinton was dismissed. This is completely untrue. Clinton settled with Jones for $850,000 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Anchovy1 ( talk • contribs) 16:07, 9 March 2007 UTC.
talk 16 March 2007
The article states
his first term also was fraught with difficulties, including an unpopular motor vehicle tax and citizens' anger over the escape of Cuban prisoners (from the Mariel boatlift)
Were these prisoners detained for criminal acts, or refugees awaiting process? This needs clarifying because the Marielitos overwhelmingly belonged to the latter group.-- Zleitzen (talk) 16:48, 19 March 2007 (UTC)
this is one of the worst presidents in US history (in my opinion the worst since Truman) many of the problems e.g. Iraq that are being dealt with by the present government are the result of actions and inaction during the Clinton years, and the article does nothing, nothing to explain why this is the case, there is no drawing together of the multitude of political, sexual and financial scandals that beset the Clinton regime in any meaningful way that can relate to policy issues. while i see that there must be attributable sources surely there has been enuf academic and journalistic interest in clintons problems so that there is something to quote out there on some meaningful hypotheses/theories about why and how things did get so messed up (sometimes only manifesting after he had gone - eg Iraq) Richy-rik 04:17, 24 March 2007 (UTC)
ok thanks for the comments, to try and be more "neutral" then :- i believe this article needs to contain not just a list of Clintons acts but also an analysis of the reasons, overt and covert for those acts and also an analysis of the effects of those acts on in the years after his reign was over.... i do believe that if a person with a detailed knowledge of US political journalism and modern history was to write such a section for the article, even with the neutral POV rule the majority of the sources would point to a critical conclusion as to clintons impact on world affairs.... i guess i am asking for SOMEONE to do this section, whatever the conclusion, i really don't have this source citation knowledge myself and don't have time to research the references.
virtues of current presidents notwithstanding I believe that the worst president may have been Harding who bye the way was largely responsible for the great depression. but blaming Clinton for this current conflict would be like blaming the Kaiser for the holocaust. 72.189.79.72 08:53, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
The article says the Clinton "lied under oath about his relationship with White House intern Monica Lewinsky". This is not technically true and is the source of much debate, about which there is no uniform consensus. The sentence should read "allegedly lied under oath" or "was accused of lying under oath."
I looked up a reference and changed the language to fit the citation. Maybe not a big deal, but the reference (#12 when I saw it...citation is a Press Conference) says (paraphrased) income over 200k, not wealthiest 1.2%. Are these 2 figures the same? If so, consider adding a 2nd citation linking 200k and 1.2% KMCtoday 18:17, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
I'm no expert on Bill Clinton, but there seems to be a problem. The article says in the introduction that he was born "William Jefferson Blythe III" with a citation [1], but in the first section of the article, it suggests that he was born "William Jefferson Blythe IV" with the same citation.
Anyone? Rageous 16:30, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
There is no mention of the war in Bosnia or the rocket attack on a Syrian hospital. Both of which were significant events during his presidency. -- Darth Borehd 06:14, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Would some one please comment on the furniture Clintons took from the White House when they left? Thank you.
I noticed that Monica was on the Sex Scandal list, but not Bill. It takes two to tango, as they say. I have added him, feel free to change it but only if explaining why. CodeCarpenter 16:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree...notice how the word IMPEACHMENT is not very prominent on this page. hello!!! Try and tell me that wasn't a major event. Let's not be blind people and report the facts how they were HE WAS IMPEACHED!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 138.89.24.219 ( talk • contribs) 11:40, 15 April 2007
he wasn't impeached for having sex, as far as i know thats still legal. sex had so very little to do with the impeachment but if all you remember is from t.v. news... well sex sells 72.189.79.72 09:02, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
User Hetfield1987 has indicated he believes the article is too long (but has not noted that here in the discussion section.) I suggest that the article is roughly the same length as both Clinton's immediate predecessor and successor and this tag be removed until a consensus to include it is reached. (And that Tarc is right, this is a non-NPOV drive-by tagging) Gruber76 17:08, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
Is it not notable that he was the first U.S. president to visit Vietnam?-- M a s 06:39, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
I thought the authors of this article would like to hear of this review of the article. In an attempt to judge the reliability of Wikipedia, The Denver post asked 5 experts to review wikipedia articles, including this one [3].
The review has the following to say about this article:
Jens Nielsen 15:03, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
I think you missed the back-handed-compliment that “it looks like it was written by the Clinton Library” means it looks like it was written by an source affiliated with Clinton.
Actually, this looks like it’s an insult to the Clinton Library. The Clinton Library wrote in a short one-page biography:
In 1998, his relationship with a young White House intern resulted in the President’s impeachment by the House of Representatives. A trial in the Senate found the President not guilty of the charges brought against him. President Clinton apologized for his conduct and vowed to keep working as hard as he could for the American people. As a result, Bill Clinton left office with historically high approval ratings for the job he had done as the 42nd President of the United States.
http://www.clintonlibrary.gov/bios-WJC.html
which is also on the official white house page
http://www.whitehouse.gov/history/presidents/bc42.html
while the much longer Wikipedia article only has the same length and blames the Republicans in EVERY sentence.
On January 21, 1998, a controversy was raised by the media and prominent Republicans[29] over Clinton's relationship with a young White House intern, Monica Lewinsky, resulting in the Lewinsky scandal. In a lame duck session after the 1998 elections, the Republican-controlled House voted to impeach Clinton for matters relating to the scandal. The Republican-controlled Senate then voted to acquit Clinton the following year, and he remained in office to complete his term.[30] Undog 04:52, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
On the page, where it says his birth date it says:
Born: August 19, 1946 (age 60)
74.92.251.34 16:42, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
I have made several large edits and thought I would just explain here. Ive reorganised the post presidential section so its now a lot more clear and makes sense. I have removed a lot of repeated information and changed the style of some sentances. Ive added about twenty references and have expanded some sections, adding info on Clinton and his wives candidacy for democratic nom for example. Hopefully the article now seems a lot more organised, referenced etc. LordHarris 16:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
This article is undergoing reevaluation for its current GA status. Happyme22 04:33, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
The picture has Bentsen as Tres. Sec., and therefore should not say 1997. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 152.2.72.220 ( talk) 19:16, 13 May 2007 (UTC).
Article now reads "Though initially well-received in political circles, it was ultimately doomed by well-organized opposition from conservatives, the American Medical Association, and the health insurance industry."
Isn't this just opinion? http://www.princeton.edu/~starr/20starr.html What kind of magazine is "American Prospect"? It says..."health care reform dead. The funeral was private; no crowds gathered in mourning.............the complexity of the plans and onslaught of criticism had even left many supporters bewildered and uncertain.
So should we list opponents included bewildered supporters?
I don't know the answer but I think the current wording is not completely correct and smells of some kind of bias. Chergles 01:36, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
(Not sure this is in the right place - I'm a novice at this) One thing that jumped out at me immediately when I came (I wanted to check on his age) was that the article lists him as "Preceded by George H. W. Bush Succeeded by George W. Bush" when it is should be the other way around 72.160.72.166 16:40, 16 May 2007 (UTC) Denis
Preceded = before
succeeded = after
72.189.79.72 09:34, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I added Ann Coulter's book, High Crimes and Misdemeanors to the popular books section, under Further reading. This was reverted by user Gdo01 with a note of "Ann Coulter is not Bill Clinton". I do not think this is a valid reason (nor do I quite understand it).
The Ann Coulter book is relevant, she is a legal professional, and there are similar (albeit different) books listed in this same section. I believe this book deserves a link. - Ajmastrean 17:24, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
tall sickingly thin blond radical right nutjob- coulter
short slovenly fat brown haired radical left BS factory- michael moore
i would no more want him on a GWB article than i want her on Clintons
by the way just because somethings popular dosent mean its good or accurate. in fact i bet there are roughly the same number or more users of heroin in the world than there are readers of her books. 72.189.79.72 10:00, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
By a vote of 5-1, this article shall keep Good Article status. The review discussion can be seen here. Regards, LaraLove T/ C 05:22, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I feel that it should be mentioned that he engaged in anal-oral contact with Monica Lewinksy. This is in the Starr report and I feel that it was important that the people know that their president was committing these acts which at the time were illegal in Texas until Lawrence v. Texas.-- William Henry Harrison 19:06, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL2316200920070523
I would like this to be added under 'Honors and accolades' or where ever appropriate.
The first sentence of this article refers to Bill Clinton as GCL, referring to an honor he received from the government of Papua New Guinea. However, even though other presidents such as Eisenhower and Reagan have received honors from other countries which would entitle them to postnominal letters, those honors are mentioned much further down in their articles, not in the first sentence. In fact, no other 20th-century president has any foreign honors identified by postnominal letters in the introduction to his article, and Clinton is not referred to as "Bill Clinton, GCL" in his own country's media or any other normal context in the United States, as far as I know. I would recommend removing the Papua New Guinea GCL from the first sentence and listing it under Clinton's honors and awards only. -- Metropolitan90 07:50, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Can we get some sort of attribution on this inflammatory, idiotic Rush Limbaugh-like claim? Wikipedia really needs to remove the lies and Fox/Rush/Drudge propaganda that the winguts routinely insert in various articles on this site. Otherwise Wiki will have zero credibility. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.169.155.6 ( talk) 21:20, 29 May 2007
This article is so full of left wing POV pushing it reads like it was taken from his autobiogrophy, BLP is one thing, but why are there NO notable cirtisms present? --— (Kepin) RING THE LIBERTY BELL 17:07, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
I'M getting so tired of saying this WIKIPEDIA IS FOR FACTS. period. if you cant handle your facts without a right wing bias then watch fox news. if you cant handle them with out the left watch cnn or most local news sources. but for the love of his noodled appendages stay off my wiki! 72.189.79.72 09:48, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I think it's ironic that the article connects a tax rise on wealthy Americans to economic progress. It would be safer to connect the economic growth to, say, the rise of the Internet, considerable technological advances, and increased worker productivity. Safest of all, the economic recovery began before Bill Clinton assumed office. Jessemckay 20:49, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
There's some mention of deficit reduction and the surplus in the article. There's no doubt that the 1993 Omnibus Reconciliation Act lowered the deficit, which in turn reduced debt interest. This is likely to boost the economy. Most economists understand this, including Greenspan:
"I think it is important that some major credible deficit reduction bill be passed. ... I fear that (without it), the markets would respond in a negative fashion, Greenspan said.
A package that lowered the five-year deficit reduction target from $500 billion to $400 billion, for example, would lack credibility, he said. If the financial markets become convinced that Clinton and Congress will not achieve meaningful deficit reduction, they are likely to force long-term interest rates higher as insurance against future inflation.
"If the markets perceive that we are backing off the size of the commitment, I think that they will react appropriately negatively, because it is suggesting that the will of the Congress and the administration to carry forward, to finally bring this process to success requires something large, Greenspan said.
http://www-tech.mit.edu/V113/N30/budget.30w.html
Therefore, the article should include this connection.
Fom what I've seen, there's little in this article about the economic record. There's no mention of the 3.7% real GDP growth average.
http://www.bea.gov/national/xls/gdpchg.xls
Nothing about a job growth of 20 million:
http://www.bls.gov/webapps/legacy/cpsatab1.htm
Compared to Wikipedia articles on other president's this article is currently lacking. Gmb92 05:27, 26 June 2007 (UTC)gmb92
Clinton voluntarily suspended his law license for five years. When threatened with disbarment by the supreme court, he surrendered his credentials to avoid that result. Clinton has never been disbarred, so that heading and section need to be corrected. See the discussion in the disbarment topic for more on this. -- 69.208.244.188 22:15, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
The Public Image section reads:
This is PoV, is it not? The implication is that Clinton was popular mainly because of a public image campaign and "sound-bite-ready" dialogue. I can reference a source that shows the public perception campaign of his successor being far more sophisticated yet has yielded little long-term results. Regardless, this is PoV. The next sentence reads:
If you look at the source for this, the only reference to "MTV president" is as follows:
So perhaps this should be qualified with "religious conservatives" if mentioned at all. Gmb92 15:25, 29 June 2007 (UTC)gmb92