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This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 January 2021 and 16 March 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ARDCM.
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Once the name of the village this took place in is released it should be renamed Battle of (villages name). XavierGreen ( talk) 16:14, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Some more info on this webpage http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/southasia/news/article_1505296.php/Ten-Afghan-soldiers-killed-in-Taliban-ambush-1st-Lead (article itself isn't about the attack) up to 600 taliban took part, 100 killed or wounded. They say this is from the afghan ministry of defense, but I don't know its webpage (if it has one) And how is this a Taliban Victory when the outposts weren't over run, they sustained a 1/3 or 1/6 casualty rate, at least 5 commanders dead, the OPs were going to be shut down soon (one of them within days) and they have been run out of the district in which the outposts were located in? I'm changing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.190.30.253 ( talk) 11:28, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
My edit was referenced, how is your edit a more accurate version since it is not even referenced? The result here on Wikipedia should be fair and neutral...not just from the US military POV, they won tacticaly yes...and i put that in the result section, but the Taliban still control much of Kamdesh and the police force of Kamdesh is almost non-existent after the attack. Plus the US will withdraw in a few days...who do you think will be controling the district after that? Thus this is a strategic Taliban victory. This had been a rerun of the Battle of Wanat and there editors put the result as Coalition tactical victory, Taliban strategic victory. You should check the talk page of the Battle of Wanat on this issue. Also until you provide a reference that specificly says that the Coalition is in control of the Kamdesh mountain range, and not just the towns and villages, my REFERENCED edit also stays. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.234.254 ( talk) 19:04, 7 October 2009 (UTC) copied from User talk:DJ Clayworth
you should have the other video of the actual battle so people could see what you are talking about not just the aftermath one — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terango ( talk • contribs) 17:41, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I have done a quick review on this article as per the request on WP:MHA. I have the following suggestions for improvement towards B class and beyond (if that is what is intended). I have no knowledge of this particular incident, so I am unable to comment on the content in much detail, so my review is mainly focused on style and technical aspects of the B class criteria:
Anyway, that is it. These comments are not meant by any means to be a criticism of the work carried out so far, indeed I feel that much good work has gone into it. Cheers. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 08:35, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Someone renamed the article, why? The reason given was that the battle occured only in the COP, but a large portion of the action occured outside the camp in the village, and there was some fighting at a FOB as well XavierGreen ( talk) 02:43, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: Airborne84 ( talk) 04:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
The article is not ready to be GA yet, but I didn't fail it since it could pass with improvements. Comments are below:
1. Is it reasonably well written?
2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
3. Is it broad in its coverage?
4. Does it follow the neutral point of view policy?
5. Is it stable?
6. Is it illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate?
7. Overall:
References comments
If the editors here would like time to improve the article given the above, I'll leave it on hold. If not, I'll remove it from the GA nom page. -- Airborne84 ( talk) 03:26, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
No where in this quote does it say the base was abandoned early. You are clearly drawing your own conclusion. Bsimmons666 ( talk) 14:46, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
I Know from talking with people that were there that the Americans did NOT abondon the ammo but had actually set charges to destroy them. Unfortunately the charges did not work and that is how the Taliban was able to get their hands on some of those munitions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terango ( talk • contribs) 16:13, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
What are the guidlines for the military history project regarding battle outcomes in the infobox? Body count? Territoy lost/gained? A "victory" that left the Taleban in complete control of the whole area seems like a dubious one to claim... Socrates2008 ( Talk) 13:42, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
I suggest we at least put the alternate name of the battle (Battle of COP Keating) in bold at the beginning of the article, like the Battle of Elkhorn Tavern is boldfaced in the Battle of Pea Ridge Article. It might sound petty, but its already redirected from "Battle of COP Keating". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.85.35.22 ( talk) 08:43, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
I obtained a copy of Jake Tapper's book, "The Outpost, an Untold Story of American Valor" with a Xmas gift card. The publication of this book represents an opportunity to produce a historical narrative for this article rather than a collection of isolated facts. Frank ( talk) 00:15, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
I'm sorry, i'm very new at this and am still working my way through all the information pertaining to editing Wikipedia, such as when a citation is needed and what qualifies as an accepted source. Lately I see a lot of these articles on wikipedia about one battle or another. It seems as though it is primarily the US military and coalition forces who provides most if not all the details of these battles, as well as info on the number of combatants involved. Again, I am a nube so have patience with me. I can't help but wonder, however, Who provided the official count of these 300 insurgents who were said to be the attackers in the Battle of Kamdesh? On edit: I see that it is the ISAF and UN that have provided this estimate, and that it is just that--an estimate that was based on intelligence provided by the US military. This is not, and should not be considered to be an unbiased source. These sorts of figures are notoriously and commonly downplayed or inflated according to the motives of the military force involved in disseminating this information. There is absolutely no way to confirm the number of "insurgents" involved in this battle. I request that the number 300 be removed and the number of insurgents be declared "unknown." Mccue3g ( talk) 19:58, 11 February 2013 (UTC)mccue3g
Having been around the block a few times on Wiki military history articles I may be able to clarify some conventions for you. When you see a number like 300 it means 300 plus or minus 100. In military speak that generally indicates more than a company but less than a battalion. In an engagement like the last attack on COP Keating, if they had less than a company they would not have shot the place to pieces as they did. If they had more than a battalion, they would have overrun it. In Tapper’s book on pages 580-1 Captain Portis records he counted more than 100 dead attackers on his way into the base after the battle, which gives some idea of the scale of the engagement. None of this makes much difference since the significance of the battle is that it represents the failure of the counterinsurgency (COIN) in Nuristan. If COIN fails, then the insurgent supply and reinforcement lines from Pakistan cannot be cut. If HIG and the Taliban can thus be supported in Nuristan the security of our objectives and puppet government in Afghanistan remain in doubt. That is what really matters, rather than the body count. Frank ( talk) 04:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
I see. The victors write the history books. Even by your explanation it is still just an estimate, but since this is about consensus I guess it is the consensus of us Americans (and the American puppet government,haha) that there were 300. Suits me just fine. I wonder, is there an Afghani WP? If there were, I wonder if they--the Afghan Wikipedia editors--would accept US military estimates as casually as we do. After all, we KNOW the US military and US intelligence lie about many things (think WMDs). I wonder why we consider them to be credible at all. I certainly don't and very few people I know consider them to be credible. 67.235.94.30 ( talk) 13:20, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
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Yes, really. The 12 hour super-intense battle is all over here in two and a half paragraphs (which is when the air support arrives). There’s far more detail in the Clinton Romesha article. I note that the article has been reviewed, as someone asked for it to be given a B grade. IMO it absolutely does not deserve that at the moment. Boscaswell talk 09:22, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
The general tone of the article is not neutral at all. Instead of factually reporting the events, on repeated occasions the article is explicitly judgemental of the Coalition in a way not appropriate for an encyclopedia. Ale rc310 ( talk) 15:26, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Battle of Kamdesh article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
Battle of Kamdesh was nominated as a Warfare good article, but it did not meet the good article criteria at the time (July 18, 2010). There are suggestions on the review page for improving the article. If you can improve it, please do; it may then be renominated. |
While the biographies of living persons policy does not apply directly to the subject of this article, it may contain material that relates to living persons, such as friends and family of persons no longer living, or living persons involved in the subject matter. Unsourced or poorly sourced contentious material about living persons must be removed immediately. If such material is re-inserted repeatedly, or if there are other concerns related to this policy, please see this noticeboard. |
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to multiple WikiProjects. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 25 January 2021 and 16 March 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): ARDCM.
Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT ( talk) 15:25, 16 January 2022 (UTC)
Once the name of the village this took place in is released it should be renamed Battle of (villages name). XavierGreen ( talk) 16:14, 4 October 2009 (UTC)
Some more info on this webpage http://www.monstersandcritics.com/news/southasia/news/article_1505296.php/Ten-Afghan-soldiers-killed-in-Taliban-ambush-1st-Lead (article itself isn't about the attack) up to 600 taliban took part, 100 killed or wounded. They say this is from the afghan ministry of defense, but I don't know its webpage (if it has one) And how is this a Taliban Victory when the outposts weren't over run, they sustained a 1/3 or 1/6 casualty rate, at least 5 commanders dead, the OPs were going to be shut down soon (one of them within days) and they have been run out of the district in which the outposts were located in? I'm changing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.190.30.253 ( talk) 11:28, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
My edit was referenced, how is your edit a more accurate version since it is not even referenced? The result here on Wikipedia should be fair and neutral...not just from the US military POV, they won tacticaly yes...and i put that in the result section, but the Taliban still control much of Kamdesh and the police force of Kamdesh is almost non-existent after the attack. Plus the US will withdraw in a few days...who do you think will be controling the district after that? Thus this is a strategic Taliban victory. This had been a rerun of the Battle of Wanat and there editors put the result as Coalition tactical victory, Taliban strategic victory. You should check the talk page of the Battle of Wanat on this issue. Also until you provide a reference that specificly says that the Coalition is in control of the Kamdesh mountain range, and not just the towns and villages, my REFERENCED edit also stays. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.216.234.254 ( talk) 19:04, 7 October 2009 (UTC) copied from User talk:DJ Clayworth
you should have the other video of the actual battle so people could see what you are talking about not just the aftermath one — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terango ( talk • contribs) 17:41, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
I have done a quick review on this article as per the request on WP:MHA. I have the following suggestions for improvement towards B class and beyond (if that is what is intended). I have no knowledge of this particular incident, so I am unable to comment on the content in much detail, so my review is mainly focused on style and technical aspects of the B class criteria:
Anyway, that is it. These comments are not meant by any means to be a criticism of the work carried out so far, indeed I feel that much good work has gone into it. Cheers. — AustralianRupert ( talk) 08:35, 4 November 2009 (UTC)
Someone renamed the article, why? The reason given was that the battle occured only in the COP, but a large portion of the action occured outside the camp in the village, and there was some fighting at a FOB as well XavierGreen ( talk) 02:43, 7 February 2010 (UTC)
Reviewer: Airborne84 ( talk) 04:03, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
The article is not ready to be GA yet, but I didn't fail it since it could pass with improvements. Comments are below:
1. Is it reasonably well written?
2. Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
3. Is it broad in its coverage?
4. Does it follow the neutral point of view policy?
5. Is it stable?
6. Is it illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate?
7. Overall:
References comments
If the editors here would like time to improve the article given the above, I'll leave it on hold. If not, I'll remove it from the GA nom page. -- Airborne84 ( talk) 03:26, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
No where in this quote does it say the base was abandoned early. You are clearly drawing your own conclusion. Bsimmons666 ( talk) 14:46, 27 July 2010 (UTC)
I Know from talking with people that were there that the Americans did NOT abondon the ammo but had actually set charges to destroy them. Unfortunately the charges did not work and that is how the Taliban was able to get their hands on some of those munitions. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terango ( talk • contribs) 16:13, 12 March 2011 (UTC)
What are the guidlines for the military history project regarding battle outcomes in the infobox? Body count? Territoy lost/gained? A "victory" that left the Taleban in complete control of the whole area seems like a dubious one to claim... Socrates2008 ( Talk) 13:42, 28 July 2010 (UTC)
I suggest we at least put the alternate name of the battle (Battle of COP Keating) in bold at the beginning of the article, like the Battle of Elkhorn Tavern is boldfaced in the Battle of Pea Ridge Article. It might sound petty, but its already redirected from "Battle of COP Keating". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.85.35.22 ( talk) 08:43, 31 March 2011 (UTC)
I obtained a copy of Jake Tapper's book, "The Outpost, an Untold Story of American Valor" with a Xmas gift card. The publication of this book represents an opportunity to produce a historical narrative for this article rather than a collection of isolated facts. Frank ( talk) 00:15, 30 January 2013 (UTC)
I'm sorry, i'm very new at this and am still working my way through all the information pertaining to editing Wikipedia, such as when a citation is needed and what qualifies as an accepted source. Lately I see a lot of these articles on wikipedia about one battle or another. It seems as though it is primarily the US military and coalition forces who provides most if not all the details of these battles, as well as info on the number of combatants involved. Again, I am a nube so have patience with me. I can't help but wonder, however, Who provided the official count of these 300 insurgents who were said to be the attackers in the Battle of Kamdesh? On edit: I see that it is the ISAF and UN that have provided this estimate, and that it is just that--an estimate that was based on intelligence provided by the US military. This is not, and should not be considered to be an unbiased source. These sorts of figures are notoriously and commonly downplayed or inflated according to the motives of the military force involved in disseminating this information. There is absolutely no way to confirm the number of "insurgents" involved in this battle. I request that the number 300 be removed and the number of insurgents be declared "unknown." Mccue3g ( talk) 19:58, 11 February 2013 (UTC)mccue3g
Having been around the block a few times on Wiki military history articles I may be able to clarify some conventions for you. When you see a number like 300 it means 300 plus or minus 100. In military speak that generally indicates more than a company but less than a battalion. In an engagement like the last attack on COP Keating, if they had less than a company they would not have shot the place to pieces as they did. If they had more than a battalion, they would have overrun it. In Tapper’s book on pages 580-1 Captain Portis records he counted more than 100 dead attackers on his way into the base after the battle, which gives some idea of the scale of the engagement. None of this makes much difference since the significance of the battle is that it represents the failure of the counterinsurgency (COIN) in Nuristan. If COIN fails, then the insurgent supply and reinforcement lines from Pakistan cannot be cut. If HIG and the Taliban can thus be supported in Nuristan the security of our objectives and puppet government in Afghanistan remain in doubt. That is what really matters, rather than the body count. Frank ( talk) 04:07, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
I see. The victors write the history books. Even by your explanation it is still just an estimate, but since this is about consensus I guess it is the consensus of us Americans (and the American puppet government,haha) that there were 300. Suits me just fine. I wonder, is there an Afghani WP? If there were, I wonder if they--the Afghan Wikipedia editors--would accept US military estimates as casually as we do. After all, we KNOW the US military and US intelligence lie about many things (think WMDs). I wonder why we consider them to be credible at all. I certainly don't and very few people I know consider them to be credible. 67.235.94.30 ( talk) 13:20, 12 February 2013 (UTC)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified 2 external links on Battle of Kamdesh. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 17:32, 28 October 2016 (UTC)
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Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 12:10, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
Yes, really. The 12 hour super-intense battle is all over here in two and a half paragraphs (which is when the air support arrives). There’s far more detail in the Clinton Romesha article. I note that the article has been reviewed, as someone asked for it to be given a B grade. IMO it absolutely does not deserve that at the moment. Boscaswell talk 09:22, 10 December 2022 (UTC)
The general tone of the article is not neutral at all. Instead of factually reporting the events, on repeated occasions the article is explicitly judgemental of the Coalition in a way not appropriate for an encyclopedia. Ale rc310 ( talk) 15:26, 26 April 2024 (UTC)