The
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Q1: Isn't the use of the terms "conspiracy theories" and "fringe" in the article title and body a violation of
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A1: No. A preponderance of
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Consensus on the article title has been established through a
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repeatedlyreaffirmedsince.
Q2: What about the word "false" or "falsely"? Is it appropriate for a Wikipedia article to state that claims are false?
A2: Yes.
Wikipedia policy is that fringe theories should not be given undue weight. Presenting a fringe theory as an unchallenged possibility gives undue credence to that theory. ("...we should not describe these two opposing viewpoints as being equal to each other ... for instance, forms of historical revisionism that are considered by more reliable sources to either lack evidence or actively ignore evidence.")
Q3: Can we discuss renaming the article or removing the "fringe" or "false" labeling?
A3: Yes.
Consensus can change, so new perspective on this issue is welcome, but please do not rehash old arguments. Please review the archives to see past discussions on this topic, and keep in mind
Wikipedia policies and
reliable sources when you frame your discussion.
Q4: The Certification of Live Birth isn't a Birth Certificate, is it?
A4: Hawaii has never issued a document with the title "Birth Certificate". Instead, their certificate is titled, "Certification Of Live Birth". The law stipulates that it fulfills all of the functions for which anyone needs a birth certificate. It is therefore misleading to suggest that it is somehow not a
birth certificate.
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Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2022
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Remove "people who doubted Obama's citizenship were racist or republican."
It was a conspiracy spread among people of all political preference, and it is just as wrong to assume anyone with a negative view on someone who happens to be "of color" is always racist or republican. ("Of color" is a racist term by the way. We all have color in our skin)
2601:187:8380:5330:19C7:77AA:CF14:473E (
talk) 07:55, 15 March 2022 (UTC)reply
I don't know what you're quoting, but it's not this article.
Gråbergs Gråa Sång (
talk) 08:11, 15 March 2022 (UTC)reply
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
There is repeated text in the first paragraph.
Suggestion: change the following --
During Barack Obama's campaign for president in 2008, throughout his presidency and afterwards, there was extensive news coverage of Obama's religious preference, birthplace, and of the individuals questioning his religious belief and citizenship – efforts eventually known as the "birther movement",[2] by which name it is widely referred to across media.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] The movement falsely asserted Obama was ineligible to be President of the United States because he was not a natural-born citizen of the United States as required by Article Two of the Constitution. During Barack Obama's campaign for president in 2008, throughout his presidency and afterwards, there was extensive news coverage of Obama's religious preference, birthplace, and of the individuals questioning his religious belief and citizenship – efforts eventually known as the "birther movement",[2] by which name it is widely referred to across media.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] The movement falsely asserted Obama was ineligible to be President of the United States because he was not a natural-born citizen of the United States as required by Article Two of the Constitution.
to --
During Barack Obama's campaign for president in 2008, throughout his presidency and afterwards, there was extensive news coverage of Obama's religious preference, birthplace, and of the individuals questioning his religious belief and citizenship – efforts eventually known as the "birther movement",[2] by which name it is widely referred to across media.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] The movement falsely asserted Obama was ineligible to be President of the United States because he was not a natural-born citizen of the United States as required by Article Two of the Constitution.
Ericli3690 (
talk) 22:26, 2 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Obama's parents were divorced in 1964. He attended kindergarten in 1966–1967 at Noelani Elementary School in Honolulu. In 1967, his mother married Indonesian student Lolo Soetoro, who was also attending the University of Hawaii (...)
I know it would be ridiculous to interpret this as such, but the phrasing here sounds like Lolo Soetoro was a student at the kindergarten. Perhaps rephrase to "...his mother married fellow University of Hawaii student, Lolo Soetoro"
Bradbradenson (
talk) 22:24, 21 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Not done. It says "who was also attending the University of Hawaii" --
Valjean (
talk) (PING me) 23:11, 21 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2023
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
this article was incorrectly linked to a "birther" conspiracy theory promoted by Andrew Sullivan regarding Sarah Palin's biological motherhood of her son Trig.
/info/en/?search=Andrew_SullivanRemusLupinWolfe (
talk) 03:53, 7 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Remove the word "conspiracy"
In order for it to be a conspiracy the conspiracy suggestions are needed. From what I have read - I haven't seen any suggestion of a conspiracy. Therefore - it's just a thoery or rumor at worst. But definetly no a conspiracy theory.
Norbert427 (
talk) 17:45, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The theories suggests that some people conspired to hide the "truth" about Obama's citizenship and place of birth. Therefore a conspiracy theory. --
Escape Orbit(Talk) 17:51, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Exactly. For example, there are people who said Obama's birth certificate was forged. Yet officials from the State of Hawaii repeatedly have said it is genuine. If the officials are lying, they are in on the conspiracy; if the officials have been duped, there was a conspiracy to insert a false document into Hawaii's records (Obama could not have done it alone); if his parents lied about his place of birth, they conspired; etc.
Weazie (
talk) 22:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The
contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to post-1992 politics of the United States and closely related people, which has been
designated as a contentious topic.
Q1: Isn't the use of the terms "conspiracy theories" and "fringe" in the article title and body a violation of
Wikipedia's policy on neutrality?
A1: No. A preponderance of
reliable sources have treated and referred to the topic as a fringe conspiracy theory, rather than a legitimate controversy. The article reflects these sources as per Wikipedia's policy of
verifiability.
Consensus on the article title has been established through a
RFC and has been
repeatedlyreaffirmedsince.
Q2: What about the word "false" or "falsely"? Is it appropriate for a Wikipedia article to state that claims are false?
A2: Yes.
Wikipedia policy is that fringe theories should not be given undue weight. Presenting a fringe theory as an unchallenged possibility gives undue credence to that theory. ("...we should not describe these two opposing viewpoints as being equal to each other ... for instance, forms of historical revisionism that are considered by more reliable sources to either lack evidence or actively ignore evidence.")
Q3: Can we discuss renaming the article or removing the "fringe" or "false" labeling?
A3: Yes.
Consensus can change, so new perspective on this issue is welcome, but please do not rehash old arguments. Please review the archives to see past discussions on this topic, and keep in mind
Wikipedia policies and
reliable sources when you frame your discussion.
Q4: The Certification of Live Birth isn't a Birth Certificate, is it?
A4: Hawaii has never issued a document with the title "Birth Certificate". Instead, their certificate is titled, "Certification Of Live Birth". The law stipulates that it fulfills all of the functions for which anyone needs a birth certificate. It is therefore misleading to suggest that it is somehow not a
birth certificate.
This article was nominated for
deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:
The subject of this article is
controversial and content may be in
dispute. When updating the article,
be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a
neutral point of view. Include
citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or
poorly sourcedmust be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially
libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to
this noticeboard.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Law, an attempt at providing a comprehensive, standardised, pan-jurisdictional and up-to-date resource for the
legal field and the subjects encompassed by it.LawWikipedia:WikiProject LawTemplate:WikiProject Lawlaw articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject United States, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of topics relating to the
United States of America on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the ongoing discussions.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Alternative views, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of significant alternative views in every field, from the sciences to the humanities. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the
discussion.Alternative ViewsWikipedia:WikiProject Alternative ViewsTemplate:WikiProject Alternative ViewsAlternative Views articles
This article is within the scope of
WikiProject Barack Obama, a project which is currently considered to be inactive.Barack ObamaWikipedia:WikiProject Barack ObamaTemplate:WikiProject Barack ObamaBarack Obama articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Conservatism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
conservatism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.ConservatismWikipedia:WikiProject ConservatismTemplate:WikiProject ConservatismConservatism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Skepticism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
science,
pseudoscience,
pseudohistory and
skepticism related articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SkepticismWikipedia:WikiProject SkepticismTemplate:WikiProject SkepticismSkepticism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of
politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join
the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
This page has archives. Sections older than 91 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present.
Semi-protected edit request on 15 March 2022
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
Remove "people who doubted Obama's citizenship were racist or republican."
It was a conspiracy spread among people of all political preference, and it is just as wrong to assume anyone with a negative view on someone who happens to be "of color" is always racist or republican. ("Of color" is a racist term by the way. We all have color in our skin)
2601:187:8380:5330:19C7:77AA:CF14:473E (
talk) 07:55, 15 March 2022 (UTC)reply
I don't know what you're quoting, but it's not this article.
Gråbergs Gråa Sång (
talk) 08:11, 15 March 2022 (UTC)reply
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
There is repeated text in the first paragraph.
Suggestion: change the following --
During Barack Obama's campaign for president in 2008, throughout his presidency and afterwards, there was extensive news coverage of Obama's religious preference, birthplace, and of the individuals questioning his religious belief and citizenship – efforts eventually known as the "birther movement",[2] by which name it is widely referred to across media.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] The movement falsely asserted Obama was ineligible to be President of the United States because he was not a natural-born citizen of the United States as required by Article Two of the Constitution. During Barack Obama's campaign for president in 2008, throughout his presidency and afterwards, there was extensive news coverage of Obama's religious preference, birthplace, and of the individuals questioning his religious belief and citizenship – efforts eventually known as the "birther movement",[2] by which name it is widely referred to across media.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] The movement falsely asserted Obama was ineligible to be President of the United States because he was not a natural-born citizen of the United States as required by Article Two of the Constitution.
to --
During Barack Obama's campaign for president in 2008, throughout his presidency and afterwards, there was extensive news coverage of Obama's religious preference, birthplace, and of the individuals questioning his religious belief and citizenship – efforts eventually known as the "birther movement",[2] by which name it is widely referred to across media.[3][4][5][6][7][8][9] The movement falsely asserted Obama was ineligible to be President of the United States because he was not a natural-born citizen of the United States as required by Article Two of the Constitution.
Ericli3690 (
talk) 22:26, 2 April 2023 (UTC)reply
Obama's parents were divorced in 1964. He attended kindergarten in 1966–1967 at Noelani Elementary School in Honolulu. In 1967, his mother married Indonesian student Lolo Soetoro, who was also attending the University of Hawaii (...)
I know it would be ridiculous to interpret this as such, but the phrasing here sounds like Lolo Soetoro was a student at the kindergarten. Perhaps rephrase to "...his mother married fellow University of Hawaii student, Lolo Soetoro"
Bradbradenson (
talk) 22:24, 21 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Not done. It says "who was also attending the University of Hawaii" --
Valjean (
talk) (PING me) 23:11, 21 June 2023 (UTC)reply
Semi-protected edit request on 29 August 2023
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.
this article was incorrectly linked to a "birther" conspiracy theory promoted by Andrew Sullivan regarding Sarah Palin's biological motherhood of her son Trig.
/info/en/?search=Andrew_SullivanRemusLupinWolfe (
talk) 03:53, 7 December 2023 (UTC)reply
Remove the word "conspiracy"
In order for it to be a conspiracy the conspiracy suggestions are needed. From what I have read - I haven't seen any suggestion of a conspiracy. Therefore - it's just a thoery or rumor at worst. But definetly no a conspiracy theory.
Norbert427 (
talk) 17:45, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
The theories suggests that some people conspired to hide the "truth" about Obama's citizenship and place of birth. Therefore a conspiracy theory. --
Escape Orbit(Talk) 17:51, 20 February 2024 (UTC)reply
Exactly. For example, there are people who said Obama's birth certificate was forged. Yet officials from the State of Hawaii repeatedly have said it is genuine. If the officials are lying, they are in on the conspiracy; if the officials have been duped, there was a conspiracy to insert a false document into Hawaii's records (Obama could not have done it alone); if his parents lied about his place of birth, they conspired; etc.
Weazie (
talk) 22:03, 22 February 2024 (UTC)reply