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Just a note that as " How Different Religions View Death and Afterlife" and other third party extended sources are not generally available online they take more time to gather and use specifically. Various sources already included treat the views fairly shortly. More to come. The other extended discussion i can find is at Taherzadeh, Adib (1976). The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volume 1. Oxford, UK: George Ronald. pp. 72–74. ISBN 0-85398-270-8. -- Smkolins ( talk) 02:13, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
A topic on Wikipedia should not be about when discussions of a topic appeared in different texts. Rather it should be about the topic itself, using reliable sources to back up those assertions. I think this page needs a complete rewrite. Look at how other encyclopedias treat the topic. For example look at the Baha'i Encyclopedia. I don't have much time to do the work, but I may come back later. Regards, -- Jeff3000 ( talk) 22:52, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
The article presents a lot of examples of NDE like trying to validete that the Bahai believe in the after life is true. That not only is pseudoscientific (because is based among other things, in cherry picking and confirmation bias) but aslo breaks Wikipedia's neutrality, and NDE's are very ambigous by their own nature and basically prove all religions afertlife in one way or another. -- Dereck Camacho ( talk) 06:59, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
I am also a Baha'i. I actually agree that the section on NDEs is a bit overblown. Perhaps the title of the section should be 'The Baha'i perspective on Near Death Experiences'. When titled as 'Near Death Experiences' there is an implication that the author/Baha'is are an authority on the topic. While I believe the authors' intention is sincere and heartfelt, and the text prior to that section to be accurate and well researched (We have hundreds of books by the founders of the Baha'i Faith), the section about NDEs could be reworded to make it clear that it is only a related topic and is written to describe examples of certain experiences of a small percentage of the population. Since no one who has had a Near Death Experience can prove to another living human that they really did experience that, it should be noted that these are personal accounts, not proven facts. -- AlphaOmegaEtc ( talk) 23:29, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
Wow - you seem quite argumentative. It's as if you did not read my comment at all. I mentioned that I'm a Baha'i to give context, and to show that I am familiar with the topic, and the Baha'i Faith in general. Immaterial to what question?
Don't get me wrong - I appreciate what you have done, and I think it is important for people to understand what the Baha'i Faith is about. Baha'is are expected to have the highest possible morals according to the writings. Harmony, Unity and so on. That is why I've chimed in. I would like the article to be as neutral as possible.
The sentence above "It is simply and exclusively a matter of convenience relative to the evidence provided by sources." makes no sense to me at all.
The 2 sections you refer to (Literature, and Personal presentations) are within the section titled 'Near Death Experiences'. I was only suggesting a more neutral main title rather than one that is suggesting that we Baha'is are some kind of experts on the topic. We are not. And I suspect Dereck was trying to point this out. What exists out there about NDEs are all personal accounts, and I think it is fine to mention NDEs as something like a "See Also" topic, but it does not directly support, or relate to the main topic "Baháʼí Faith on life after death".
I have seen the Reinee Pasarow video, and her account sounds wonderful to me. I had an "out of body" (OBE) experience when I was 14. So, please understand I believe these accounts. But most people will not. I told some college friends about my OBE and they said "Oh, that was just a dream". Consider your audience. That's all I'm saying. Thanks, -- AlphaOmegaEtc ( talk) 20:04, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
Okay. I give up. You and I do not see the point of sharing information on Wikipedia the same way at all. I won't disturb you anymore. -- AlphaOmegaEtc ( talk) 16:56, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I would like to see more input about the lenghty presence of the Near Death Experiences section. I think it might be breaking the Neutral Point of View as, at least on its current phrasing seems to endorse that NDE are evidence that the Bahai believes in the after life are true. NDE experiences are a very subjective and controversial topic; practically all religions see them as "evidence" of their belief system and people of different religions generally have NDE that coincidentally correspond to their respective belief (Christians report angels and Jesus or hell with fire and devils, for example). Thus its presence on an article about one particular religion might be over-reaching, but I would like to see other people's opinions. -- Dereck Camacho ( talk) 14:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
In articles specifically relating to a minority viewpoint, such views may receive more attention and space. However, these pages should still appropriately reference the majority viewpoint wherever relevant and must not represent content strictly from the minority view's perspective. Specifically, it should always be clear which parts of the text describe the minority view. In addition, the majority view should be explained sufficiently to let the reader understand how the minority view differs from it, and controversies regarding aspects of the minority view should be clearly identified and explained. How much detail is required depends on the subject.
The redirect Talk:Bahá?í Faith on life after death has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 8 § Talk:Bahá?í Faith on life after death until a consensus is reached. Tartar Torte 16:46, 8 June 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||
|
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. |
Reporting errors |
Just a note that as " How Different Religions View Death and Afterlife" and other third party extended sources are not generally available online they take more time to gather and use specifically. Various sources already included treat the views fairly shortly. More to come. The other extended discussion i can find is at Taherzadeh, Adib (1976). The Revelation of Bahá'u'lláh, Volume 1. Oxford, UK: George Ronald. pp. 72–74. ISBN 0-85398-270-8. -- Smkolins ( talk) 02:13, 9 January 2013 (UTC)
A topic on Wikipedia should not be about when discussions of a topic appeared in different texts. Rather it should be about the topic itself, using reliable sources to back up those assertions. I think this page needs a complete rewrite. Look at how other encyclopedias treat the topic. For example look at the Baha'i Encyclopedia. I don't have much time to do the work, but I may come back later. Regards, -- Jeff3000 ( talk) 22:52, 19 January 2013 (UTC)
The article presents a lot of examples of NDE like trying to validete that the Bahai believe in the after life is true. That not only is pseudoscientific (because is based among other things, in cherry picking and confirmation bias) but aslo breaks Wikipedia's neutrality, and NDE's are very ambigous by their own nature and basically prove all religions afertlife in one way or another. -- Dereck Camacho ( talk) 06:59, 11 October 2020 (UTC)
I am also a Baha'i. I actually agree that the section on NDEs is a bit overblown. Perhaps the title of the section should be 'The Baha'i perspective on Near Death Experiences'. When titled as 'Near Death Experiences' there is an implication that the author/Baha'is are an authority on the topic. While I believe the authors' intention is sincere and heartfelt, and the text prior to that section to be accurate and well researched (We have hundreds of books by the founders of the Baha'i Faith), the section about NDEs could be reworded to make it clear that it is only a related topic and is written to describe examples of certain experiences of a small percentage of the population. Since no one who has had a Near Death Experience can prove to another living human that they really did experience that, it should be noted that these are personal accounts, not proven facts. -- AlphaOmegaEtc ( talk) 23:29, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
Wow - you seem quite argumentative. It's as if you did not read my comment at all. I mentioned that I'm a Baha'i to give context, and to show that I am familiar with the topic, and the Baha'i Faith in general. Immaterial to what question?
Don't get me wrong - I appreciate what you have done, and I think it is important for people to understand what the Baha'i Faith is about. Baha'is are expected to have the highest possible morals according to the writings. Harmony, Unity and so on. That is why I've chimed in. I would like the article to be as neutral as possible.
The sentence above "It is simply and exclusively a matter of convenience relative to the evidence provided by sources." makes no sense to me at all.
The 2 sections you refer to (Literature, and Personal presentations) are within the section titled 'Near Death Experiences'. I was only suggesting a more neutral main title rather than one that is suggesting that we Baha'is are some kind of experts on the topic. We are not. And I suspect Dereck was trying to point this out. What exists out there about NDEs are all personal accounts, and I think it is fine to mention NDEs as something like a "See Also" topic, but it does not directly support, or relate to the main topic "Baháʼí Faith on life after death".
I have seen the Reinee Pasarow video, and her account sounds wonderful to me. I had an "out of body" (OBE) experience when I was 14. So, please understand I believe these accounts. But most people will not. I told some college friends about my OBE and they said "Oh, that was just a dream". Consider your audience. That's all I'm saying. Thanks, -- AlphaOmegaEtc ( talk) 20:04, 17 February 2021 (UTC)
Okay. I give up. You and I do not see the point of sharing information on Wikipedia the same way at all. I won't disturb you anymore. -- AlphaOmegaEtc ( talk) 16:56, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I would like to see more input about the lenghty presence of the Near Death Experiences section. I think it might be breaking the Neutral Point of View as, at least on its current phrasing seems to endorse that NDE are evidence that the Bahai believes in the after life are true. NDE experiences are a very subjective and controversial topic; practically all religions see them as "evidence" of their belief system and people of different religions generally have NDE that coincidentally correspond to their respective belief (Christians report angels and Jesus or hell with fire and devils, for example). Thus its presence on an article about one particular religion might be over-reaching, but I would like to see other people's opinions. -- Dereck Camacho ( talk) 14:07, 27 October 2020 (UTC)
In articles specifically relating to a minority viewpoint, such views may receive more attention and space. However, these pages should still appropriately reference the majority viewpoint wherever relevant and must not represent content strictly from the minority view's perspective. Specifically, it should always be clear which parts of the text describe the minority view. In addition, the majority view should be explained sufficiently to let the reader understand how the minority view differs from it, and controversies regarding aspects of the minority view should be clearly identified and explained. How much detail is required depends on the subject.
The redirect Talk:Bahá?í Faith on life after death has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2023 June 8 § Talk:Bahá?í Faith on life after death until a consensus is reached. Tartar Torte 16:46, 8 June 2023 (UTC)