This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The statement "Autism (especially High-functioning) is linked to poverty, depression, and suicide.", under "# 6.2 Responses from the movement... Further responses of the movement can be summarized as follows:..." seems to be really out of place. Since the responses listed seem to support the movement, this one just seems like it was placed there in a vandalism attempt. Thoughts? Nodnarb232001 07:03, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the following statement from the article because it made no sense at all to me:
Q0 05:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the following paragraph since it still has not been cited Q0 21:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Why does the autism movement wish to separate itself from feminism? -- Bronwyn Gannan 05:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC).
Removed the following line:
" Some critics of the movement think that claiming autism is a natural way of being and not a disorder is non-sense and ridiculous."
Makes no sense, no citation. But I think the last section needs a more serious rewrite. Theconroy 16:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
By definition, the title of this page is obfuscatory. It is not talking about autism. It is talking about Asperger's Syndrome. If you call it Asperger's Rights Movement, I have no comment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.71.241.43 ( talk) 04:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand the relavence of the following statement, which is the last sentence of the Controversy:criticism section Q0 10:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
I find the following statement from the "Opposition to an alleged insultive view of autism" section confusing:
I'm not sure what the statement claims is a myth about the MMR vaccine. Also, I don't know how this statement fits within the greater context of the particular section. Q0 05:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Falconleaf, I don't know why you added "left-wing" to a number of paragraphs. I took them out - if you have some sort of proof that it's primarily people on the political left with that belief, please, provide it! Cheyinka 22:29, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Falconleaf. Please cite the commentary that "the movement" is related to acceptance of homosexuality and the assertion that it has a liberal bias. It's news to me, and probably to other people who read this page, so, please, provide sources!! Cheyinka 01:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
It seemed empty so I've expanded on the continued debate section but it seems it might be better combined with History or to put a history section in the top of criticisms and controversy.
User:Johngagon 14:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Should we avoid using words/phrases like "pro-cure" and "anti-cure"? I'm coming at this from the perspective of the Abortion_debate, and the terms "pro choice" and "pro life" which these labels seem to be modelled on.
The use of "anti-cure" can be justified because its a label a group has chosen to put on themselves. In general we accept the use of such self-given labels, though we might have second thoughts about... I can't think of anything right now, but something like paedophiles insisting on being called "child lovers". On the other hand, even with the quotes, should we be accepting "pro-cure" and using it throughout the article, even with quote marks (which don't make all that much of a difference). Could we fall back "detractors"/"critics" etc as would be more usual?
I'm the father of two children within the autistic spectrum. My older son functions fine within his differences. The other has severe impairments. This article frames discussion is such a way that in order to advocate for my older son, I should be consistent in leaving my younger son unable to eat solid food, use basic motor skills or be able to coherently communicate with others. Because if I want to help one, I *must* be a part of an ideology that rejects accepting the other's differences and wants to treat my older boy as "diseased." How incredibly stupid. (Unsigned)
This statement never fails to amuse me: "Weintraub has expressed concern about his son's choice to be Mickey Mouse for Halloween instead of characters from Lord of the Rings like the other children." I mean... hey, lady, count your blessings. What if he wanted to be Minnie??? -- Bluejay Young 05:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Why is this article so incredibly long? For something that gets "hundreds of signatures," does it really deserve an article longer than that on the Gay Rights Movement? Kingcobweb 11:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
"Over time, some internet meme has also resulted because of the autism rights movement, much of which is tongue in cheek criticism of the self-diagnosis issue as well as common perceptions about alternative sexual self-identifications."
Can someone please tell me what this is talking about? I know the words, but I can't figure out what they mean in this order. 199.126.166.13 00:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the following from the article:
This was in the introductory section, and this paragraph does not describe material relavent to an introduction to the movement. In addition, famous people speculated to have been autistic is already mentioned in the article, so this new information is redundant. It also seems to suggest that Einstein, Newton, and Yeats are undisputably autistic. However, it is necessary to say that some people have disputed such claims, per Wikipedia's Neutral point of view policy. Q0 09:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
There are related links placed in the Autism article that should have been placed here. I have added them to the bottom of the external links list. Malangthon 00:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Being that userboxes are beginning to be one of my perseverations I created one, see what you think.
This user supports the rights of autistic people to speak for themselves. |
-- Bluejay Young 02:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I found these templates that might be appropriate to add to the article. One of them already includes autism rights movement in it. However, I'm not sure if the size of one of them will cause it to be distracting. I'm also unsure if they should be placed at the top or bottom of the page. What does everyone else think? Q0 20:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
{{ rights}}
How is anything after the debate is ongoing useful? It makes the whole sentence rather confusing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.72.59.84 ( talk • contribs).
Why was the link to CIBRA removed from the list of Self-Advocacy Sites? JimScott 17:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I am involved in an edit war on the Applied behavior analysis article. My opponents in this are two practitioners of ABA who systematically revert all critical edits. They have resorted to outright lying about Wikipedia policy in this endeavor. I could use some assistance in making sure the article does not go back to being a puff piece.
Doesn't the following section violate WP:BLP pretty severely? There's not a single reliable source, and it's titled Speculation - at minimum without citation it's original research. The only source that's still running, neurodiversity, doesn't really meet my understanding of a reliable source, particularly not for living persons. WLU 18:42, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
===Speculation of autism in famous people===
There has been speculation that well-known contemporary and historical people may have been autistic in some form [2] and the autism rights movement has participated in this speculation. Those who are most commonly discussed are Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, Isaac Newton, and Thomas Jefferson. In addition, there are rumors that Steven Spielberg is diagnosed. Although this is brought up in the autistic rights movement, it is controversial outside the autistic rights movement as well. Some people considered autism professionals and/or psychologists (such as Simon Baron-Cohen and Christopher Gillberg) have contributed to this speculation.
Neurodiversity.com lists eight people speculated as being autistic on its index page and then makes the statement, "honoring the variety of human wiring" [3].
This speculation may be seen as an attempt to create role models for autistics and to show people that autistics can do constructive things and contribute to society. This issue is discussed by autistic rights activists often in an effort to convince people that it would be a loss to society if autism were cured. Others in the autistic rights movement, however, dislike this argument, because they feel autistics should be able to value their uniqueness without the desire for a cure regardless of whether or not people like Einstein were autistic.
Some autistics value their "being" regardless of what others think, or of how unique it is. They prefer to redress the current diversion from the original clinical meaning. Pointing out the immense contributions of scientists and inventors who might have been autistic may be an attempt of anti-cure advocates to change the viewpoints of pro-cure advocates.
Let me see:
I have Asperger's, so you can conclude from that what you will. 84.53.74.196 21:15, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
While the Autistics rights movement dose have some serious issues to complain about I think their over reacting, I mean really a cure for autism, that’s neurologically impossible like curing asthma or diabetes or epileptics you just can’t do it, all you do is find the most effective treatments possible to help the people interact with standard society and ease difficulties in their lives, and I don’t think thay would really hae reservations about that. -- J intela 22:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
This part made no sense to me:
Some autistics would prefer autism to be seen as a disability rather than a disease,
The schism appears to be between difference and disability, not disability and disease. The wording may be the result of vandalism, with the original word being difference. In any case, I removed it and copyedited the surrounding text. -- elmindreda ( talk) 06:31, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
With the recent media attention surrounding calls for the retraction of a certain ad campaign, I think the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network (ASAN) would be sufficiently notable for addition. -- elmindreda ( talk) 11:02, 24 December 2007 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The statement "Autism (especially High-functioning) is linked to poverty, depression, and suicide.", under "# 6.2 Responses from the movement... Further responses of the movement can be summarized as follows:..." seems to be really out of place. Since the responses listed seem to support the movement, this one just seems like it was placed there in a vandalism attempt. Thoughts? Nodnarb232001 07:03, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the following statement from the article because it made no sense at all to me:
Q0 05:16, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
I've removed the following paragraph since it still has not been cited Q0 21:42, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
Why does the autism movement wish to separate itself from feminism? -- Bronwyn Gannan 05:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC).
Removed the following line:
" Some critics of the movement think that claiming autism is a natural way of being and not a disorder is non-sense and ridiculous."
Makes no sense, no citation. But I think the last section needs a more serious rewrite. Theconroy 16:44, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
By definition, the title of this page is obfuscatory. It is not talking about autism. It is talking about Asperger's Syndrome. If you call it Asperger's Rights Movement, I have no comment. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.71.241.43 ( talk) 04:55, 14 November 2007 (UTC)
I don't understand the relavence of the following statement, which is the last sentence of the Controversy:criticism section Q0 10:44, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
I find the following statement from the "Opposition to an alleged insultive view of autism" section confusing:
I'm not sure what the statement claims is a myth about the MMR vaccine. Also, I don't know how this statement fits within the greater context of the particular section. Q0 05:08, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
Falconleaf, I don't know why you added "left-wing" to a number of paragraphs. I took them out - if you have some sort of proof that it's primarily people on the political left with that belief, please, provide it! Cheyinka 22:29, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
Hi, Falconleaf. Please cite the commentary that "the movement" is related to acceptance of homosexuality and the assertion that it has a liberal bias. It's news to me, and probably to other people who read this page, so, please, provide sources!! Cheyinka 01:06, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
It seemed empty so I've expanded on the continued debate section but it seems it might be better combined with History or to put a history section in the top of criticisms and controversy.
User:Johngagon 14:02, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
Should we avoid using words/phrases like "pro-cure" and "anti-cure"? I'm coming at this from the perspective of the Abortion_debate, and the terms "pro choice" and "pro life" which these labels seem to be modelled on.
The use of "anti-cure" can be justified because its a label a group has chosen to put on themselves. In general we accept the use of such self-given labels, though we might have second thoughts about... I can't think of anything right now, but something like paedophiles insisting on being called "child lovers". On the other hand, even with the quotes, should we be accepting "pro-cure" and using it throughout the article, even with quote marks (which don't make all that much of a difference). Could we fall back "detractors"/"critics" etc as would be more usual?
I'm the father of two children within the autistic spectrum. My older son functions fine within his differences. The other has severe impairments. This article frames discussion is such a way that in order to advocate for my older son, I should be consistent in leaving my younger son unable to eat solid food, use basic motor skills or be able to coherently communicate with others. Because if I want to help one, I *must* be a part of an ideology that rejects accepting the other's differences and wants to treat my older boy as "diseased." How incredibly stupid. (Unsigned)
This statement never fails to amuse me: "Weintraub has expressed concern about his son's choice to be Mickey Mouse for Halloween instead of characters from Lord of the Rings like the other children." I mean... hey, lady, count your blessings. What if he wanted to be Minnie??? -- Bluejay Young 05:50, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Why is this article so incredibly long? For something that gets "hundreds of signatures," does it really deserve an article longer than that on the Gay Rights Movement? Kingcobweb 11:51, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
"Over time, some internet meme has also resulted because of the autism rights movement, much of which is tongue in cheek criticism of the self-diagnosis issue as well as common perceptions about alternative sexual self-identifications."
Can someone please tell me what this is talking about? I know the words, but I can't figure out what they mean in this order. 199.126.166.13 00:46, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
I have removed the following from the article:
This was in the introductory section, and this paragraph does not describe material relavent to an introduction to the movement. In addition, famous people speculated to have been autistic is already mentioned in the article, so this new information is redundant. It also seems to suggest that Einstein, Newton, and Yeats are undisputably autistic. However, it is necessary to say that some people have disputed such claims, per Wikipedia's Neutral point of view policy. Q0 09:02, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
There are related links placed in the Autism article that should have been placed here. I have added them to the bottom of the external links list. Malangthon 00:30, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
Being that userboxes are beginning to be one of my perseverations I created one, see what you think.
This user supports the rights of autistic people to speak for themselves. |
-- Bluejay Young 02:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
I found these templates that might be appropriate to add to the article. One of them already includes autism rights movement in it. However, I'm not sure if the size of one of them will cause it to be distracting. I'm also unsure if they should be placed at the top or bottom of the page. What does everyone else think? Q0 20:29, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
{{ rights}}
How is anything after the debate is ongoing useful? It makes the whole sentence rather confusing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.72.59.84 ( talk • contribs).
Why was the link to CIBRA removed from the list of Self-Advocacy Sites? JimScott 17:47, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
I am involved in an edit war on the Applied behavior analysis article. My opponents in this are two practitioners of ABA who systematically revert all critical edits. They have resorted to outright lying about Wikipedia policy in this endeavor. I could use some assistance in making sure the article does not go back to being a puff piece.
Doesn't the following section violate WP:BLP pretty severely? There's not a single reliable source, and it's titled Speculation - at minimum without citation it's original research. The only source that's still running, neurodiversity, doesn't really meet my understanding of a reliable source, particularly not for living persons. WLU 18:42, 30 July 2007 (UTC)
===Speculation of autism in famous people===
There has been speculation that well-known contemporary and historical people may have been autistic in some form [2] and the autism rights movement has participated in this speculation. Those who are most commonly discussed are Albert Einstein, Bill Gates, Isaac Newton, and Thomas Jefferson. In addition, there are rumors that Steven Spielberg is diagnosed. Although this is brought up in the autistic rights movement, it is controversial outside the autistic rights movement as well. Some people considered autism professionals and/or psychologists (such as Simon Baron-Cohen and Christopher Gillberg) have contributed to this speculation.
Neurodiversity.com lists eight people speculated as being autistic on its index page and then makes the statement, "honoring the variety of human wiring" [3].
This speculation may be seen as an attempt to create role models for autistics and to show people that autistics can do constructive things and contribute to society. This issue is discussed by autistic rights activists often in an effort to convince people that it would be a loss to society if autism were cured. Others in the autistic rights movement, however, dislike this argument, because they feel autistics should be able to value their uniqueness without the desire for a cure regardless of whether or not people like Einstein were autistic.
Some autistics value their "being" regardless of what others think, or of how unique it is. They prefer to redress the current diversion from the original clinical meaning. Pointing out the immense contributions of scientists and inventors who might have been autistic may be an attempt of anti-cure advocates to change the viewpoints of pro-cure advocates.
Let me see:
I have Asperger's, so you can conclude from that what you will. 84.53.74.196 21:15, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
While the Autistics rights movement dose have some serious issues to complain about I think their over reacting, I mean really a cure for autism, that’s neurologically impossible like curing asthma or diabetes or epileptics you just can’t do it, all you do is find the most effective treatments possible to help the people interact with standard society and ease difficulties in their lives, and I don’t think thay would really hae reservations about that. -- J intela 22:09, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
This part made no sense to me:
Some autistics would prefer autism to be seen as a disability rather than a disease,
The schism appears to be between difference and disability, not disability and disease. The wording may be the result of vandalism, with the original word being difference. In any case, I removed it and copyedited the surrounding text. -- elmindreda ( talk) 06:31, 23 December 2007 (UTC)
With the recent media attention surrounding calls for the retraction of a certain ad campaign, I think the Autistic Self-Advocacy Network (ASAN) would be sufficiently notable for addition. -- elmindreda ( talk) 11:02, 24 December 2007 (UTC)