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I'm not sure why an RFC was needed here? The aricle has long been in bad shape, and should be cleaned up. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 18:59, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
I think Molly Kessler should be mentioned in this article. She has an interesting view: Autists do not have a 'problem', but rather their own social language, though it would be beneficial to them to 'acquire' the neurotypical social language for personal benefit. She's pretty well-known in Israel, and she's even lectured abroad a few times (in Singapore, Japan, and I believe Australia as well). Siúnrá ( talk) 12:44, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
it's things like this which causes gigantic leaps in science and art, the pro-cure people are idiots! are they really that thick they can't see what massive leaps these so called defective people have given us? being social can be defined as a form of mental retardation, i know of more socially capable failures than i know anti-social failures (a slightly autistic boss is much more driven than a non-autistic one, big fat examples are: Microsoft/Apple/Dell etc.) Markthemac ( talk) 01:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
it's a form of eugenics, but it will make my day if we find a cure for severely happy people though (nudge) Markthemac ( talk) 03:22, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
The criticism section is notably biased against the critical viewpoint. Examples include multiple scare quotes, no mention of that those against cures evidently (via mechanisms like the US' ADA, state-funded insurance, or insurance companies) expect the rest of society to bear the costs of taking care of those incapable of self-care, failure to mention things associated with autism (as opposed to Asperger's) like mental retardation (clearly a deficit in functioning), etc. (Yes, I feel pretty strongly on this. It makes even less sense than claiming that ADD - which I have - isn't a disability (it most definitely is for most people). But that doesn't mean the section isn't biased.) Allens ( talk) 06:54, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
As an autistic person with attention difference hyperactivity dynamic, I agree with your point and I wouldn't get rid of my autism or my ADHD even if I could. However, the main complaint was the criticism section was biased against critics. Ms. Andrea Carter here ( at your service) 01:24, 15 July 2015 (UTC)ADeviloper
one of the sponsors on the news this morning should have said Walk Now For Autism Rights Movement not Walk Now For Autism Speaks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.33.58.61 ( talk) 00:02, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
section from article on Cherry Hill Public Schools:
In April 2012, the parent of an autistic student released a video on Youtube "Teacher/Bully: How My Son Was Humiliated and Tormented by his Teacher and Aide", Stuart Chaifetz, video at YouTube, posted April 20, 2012 providing evidence that the student was the subject of emotional abuse at the hands of his teacher and aide at Horace Mann Elementary School, in the Cherry Hill school district. Horace Mann Elementary School website. The evidence was secured when the child's father, Stuart Chaifetz, wired his son before sending him to school. When Chaifetz listened to the audio recording, according to one news report, "Chaifetz says he caught his son's teachers gossiping, talking about alcohol and violently yelling at students. He took the audio to the Cherry Hill School District, where officials fired one of the teachers involved after hearing the tape. Chaifetz's son was relocated to a new school, where Chaifetz says he is doing well." NJ Father Records Teachers Bullying His Autistic Child, MyFoxPhilly.com "Verbal abuse of autistic student sparks calls for reform", Jim Walsh and Phil Dunn, Cherry Hill Courier-Post, reprinted at USA Today website, 29 April 2012 Chaifetz created a petition asking for legislation to allow the immediate firing of teachers who have bullied students. As of April 29, it had garnered over 149,000 signatures. "To the New Jersey Legislature and Congress: Pass legislation so that teachers who bully children are immediately fired", petition at Change.org, access date 29 April 2012
Should this be here? maybe at the autism article? I think it may deserve its own article.(mercurywoodrose) 75.61.140.126 ( talk) 17:50, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Is it worth including the prevalence of autisim/aspergers being used as slurs on the internet?
Because the article mentions anti-cure insults and sorta implies that they are a result of having autism and I think its worth noting that people with out autism can be just as hostile to people with it as the other way around.
Here is a reference: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/autism — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.187.118.204 ( talk) 06:40, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
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I am afraid I must fail this article on a technical matter, rather than doing a more comprehensive review. The nominator of the article is now banned from autism-related articles and, obviously, this places some skepticism on the improvements he has made to Autism rights movement, which he appears to be a member of. Future editors of this article will have two main issues to confront before re-nominating it: (1) quality of sources (a lot of advocacy websites are being used here), and (2) possible distortion of sources. Shii (tock) 21:35, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
It seems to me that it is neither stylistically good for an encyclopaedia to include this massive quote, nor in compliance with WP policy on quotes. It doesn't have a proper citation (a link to the original quote, for instance), is far too long (see /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Quotations#Overusing_quotations) and is probably a potential copvio issue too. I suggest someone looks into this (I would just delete it, but I feel it's best to discuss it first. Thanks. GoddersUK ( talk) 14:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
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While I agree that counterpoints and criticisms should be presented in all matters, Jonathan Mitchell has been known to personally attack and harass members of the Autism Rights Movement / Neurodiversity movement, and bringing attention to him only helps him grow in terms of people he can use to further his own personal agenda. On his new website; http://autismgadfly.blogspot.com/ ; he gives unauthorized medical advice to readers, a violation of law, along with other people in his group of people on Twitter using the #AutisticDarkWeb to harass people who are pro-neurodivergence. The Autistic Dark Web is becoming a hate group, and members of it have advocated to be "put to death by lethal injection" for those who are part of the ND movement (source: http://autismisbad.blogspot.com/2015/08/neurodiversity-amendment.html ),
I request a moderator or admin of Wikipedia look into this, if possible. Apologies if this post is a mess, I'm still unsure on the formatting for these things.
69.122.254.240 ( talk) 19:23, 1 June 2019 (UTC)DjangoSolarBoy
I noticed that viewpoints attributed to these three autistic individuals have been deleted from this article and a few other autism-related articles. There needs to be more discussion before a decision is made to erase their voices from Wikipedia. It appears that these passages were removed because the three expressed their opinions via facilitated communication, a discredited means of communication. However, Baggs ( https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/the-language-of-autism/, https://www.wired.com/2008/02/ff-autism/) and Rubin ( https://www.newsweek.com/my-mind-began-wake-122229) are capable of typing independently. Sequenzia still needs support typing, but no reliable source seems to discount her views because of her method of communication. CatPath ( talk) 18:30, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
References
Jonathan Mitchell has self published one book and writes a blog. He has no academic papers published in relation to neurodiversity.
As he is not a prominent figure in the Neurodiversity conversation his inclusion gives undue weight to the criticism section. There is also COI issues regarding his inclusion due to his relationship with Ylevental.
Mattevansc3 ( talk) 03:11, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
Mattevansc3 ( talk) 00:46, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Mattevansc3 ( talk) 21:44, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
Disputed neutrality. It focuses what autistic people and autistic activists say, not what experts in medical field say. Aocdnw ( talk) 10:53, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Aocdnw: Do we really need to discuss flame wars on email lists? -- Wikiman2718 ( talk) 12:41, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
A scrap on a mailing list is far, far too excessive of detail to be worth inclusion on an article on a very broad topic like this. Material on the email dispute should be removed. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:50, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
Of course Wikiman2718 is right. E-Mails? What's next, bathroom graffiti? -- Hob Gadling ( talk) 11:11, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
@ Niremetal: Here are two sources which state that the autistic community condemns Autism Speaks. The fist actually says "disability community". [1] [2]
References
The section is "views". It is the view of the autism rights movement that autism is a difference. Sometimes it is also considered as a disability. -- 66.244.121.212 ( talk) 21:41, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Considering this and the Neurodiversity article are both appearing to be making huge overgeneralizations of a whole spectrum of individuals and related peers, each with their own varied thoughts regarding various treatments and also largely shows a clear bias against what autism scientists as many other autism advocates are currently saying, with its history of controversy and criticism both by mainstream scientists and other autism advocates in the page largely being ignored. Science isn't a democracy and I worry this page may become taken over by a small group of partisans (often those with low support needs) to push a clear political agenda for their own ends that will affect the autism community as a whole rather than to give the objective facts as they are being reported. Just so you know. I am not some pro-cure autism speaks advocate. I am a person with autism myself, and seeing the complete disregard of my and various other autistic people's wide beliefs under one anti-treatment banner is doing a great disservice for us. I implore people to please begin editing this page to reduce a level of significant bias in the article and to see things from both perspectives, and to take note of the great amount of division it has caused in the autism community such as with. [1], [2], [3], and [4] -- Special:Contributions/72.53.87.239 ( talk) 03:43, 09 November 2021 (EST)
References
Why is Michaelangelo featured here? The Autism rights movement did not exist during the period which Michaelangelo was alive and this does not make him a notable individual for the campaign of autism rights. It should be omitted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by APDHistorian ( talk • contribs) 11:50, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
why is the term aspergers syndrome used in this article? its own wikipedia page refers to it as outdated, and it hasn't been used in an official capacity for almost a decade. Cyan-Prince ( talk) 00:15, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Twice now I've altered the image description for the "rainbow infinity" symbol from describing it as a neurodiversity symbol to specifically a symbol for autism. Both the citation on the page and the reputable sources I've been able to find in my own research have only made reference to the symbols use for autism, there is no mention of the broader neurodiversity movement. If people are going to keep changing the description to say that it's a symbol of the neurodiversity at large, they should also be providing a good quality source to cite for that, rather than leaving the current source which only makes reference to it's use relating to autistic people. Waitingtocompile ( talk) 15:24, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
At the moment the overview section seems crammed with irrelevant information, unrelated to the subject of the article. It appears to be an overview of random categories and their relation to autism, not an overview of the autism rights movement. Given it's lack of information on the subject of the article, is there anything written in it worth keeping? XeCyranium ( talk) 22:04, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
Probably not. Indeed much of the content is on autism and not the movement itself. I would suggest moving some sections over to other articles on autism since a lot of it is good information. FonkayMunkay97 ( talk) 03:02, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
Why do we got a redirect page if Autism rights movement isn't a movement for neurodivergent as a whole? I mean why, specifically? There are literally other disability observed movements that focus on other disorders and disabilities under the neurodiversity umbrella. Sheragirl10 ( talk) 11:57, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Neurodiversity movement has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 10 § Neurodiversity movement until a consensus is reached. -- MikutoH talk! 01:21, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Autism rights movement article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
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Autism rights movement was a good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake. | ||||||||||||||||
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I'm not sure why an RFC was needed here? The aricle has long been in bad shape, and should be cleaned up. SandyGeorgia ( Talk) 18:59, 9 August 2009 (UTC)
I think Molly Kessler should be mentioned in this article. She has an interesting view: Autists do not have a 'problem', but rather their own social language, though it would be beneficial to them to 'acquire' the neurotypical social language for personal benefit. She's pretty well-known in Israel, and she's even lectured abroad a few times (in Singapore, Japan, and I believe Australia as well). Siúnrá ( talk) 12:44, 28 October 2009 (UTC)
it's things like this which causes gigantic leaps in science and art, the pro-cure people are idiots! are they really that thick they can't see what massive leaps these so called defective people have given us? being social can be defined as a form of mental retardation, i know of more socially capable failures than i know anti-social failures (a slightly autistic boss is much more driven than a non-autistic one, big fat examples are: Microsoft/Apple/Dell etc.) Markthemac ( talk) 01:14, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
it's a form of eugenics, but it will make my day if we find a cure for severely happy people though (nudge) Markthemac ( talk) 03:22, 16 May 2010 (UTC)
The criticism section is notably biased against the critical viewpoint. Examples include multiple scare quotes, no mention of that those against cures evidently (via mechanisms like the US' ADA, state-funded insurance, or insurance companies) expect the rest of society to bear the costs of taking care of those incapable of self-care, failure to mention things associated with autism (as opposed to Asperger's) like mental retardation (clearly a deficit in functioning), etc. (Yes, I feel pretty strongly on this. It makes even less sense than claiming that ADD - which I have - isn't a disability (it most definitely is for most people). But that doesn't mean the section isn't biased.) Allens ( talk) 06:54, 2 November 2011 (UTC)
As an autistic person with attention difference hyperactivity dynamic, I agree with your point and I wouldn't get rid of my autism or my ADHD even if I could. However, the main complaint was the criticism section was biased against critics. Ms. Andrea Carter here ( at your service) 01:24, 15 July 2015 (UTC)ADeviloper
one of the sponsors on the news this morning should have said Walk Now For Autism Rights Movement not Walk Now For Autism Speaks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.33.58.61 ( talk) 00:02, 25 October 2015 (UTC)
section from article on Cherry Hill Public Schools:
In April 2012, the parent of an autistic student released a video on Youtube "Teacher/Bully: How My Son Was Humiliated and Tormented by his Teacher and Aide", Stuart Chaifetz, video at YouTube, posted April 20, 2012 providing evidence that the student was the subject of emotional abuse at the hands of his teacher and aide at Horace Mann Elementary School, in the Cherry Hill school district. Horace Mann Elementary School website. The evidence was secured when the child's father, Stuart Chaifetz, wired his son before sending him to school. When Chaifetz listened to the audio recording, according to one news report, "Chaifetz says he caught his son's teachers gossiping, talking about alcohol and violently yelling at students. He took the audio to the Cherry Hill School District, where officials fired one of the teachers involved after hearing the tape. Chaifetz's son was relocated to a new school, where Chaifetz says he is doing well." NJ Father Records Teachers Bullying His Autistic Child, MyFoxPhilly.com "Verbal abuse of autistic student sparks calls for reform", Jim Walsh and Phil Dunn, Cherry Hill Courier-Post, reprinted at USA Today website, 29 April 2012 Chaifetz created a petition asking for legislation to allow the immediate firing of teachers who have bullied students. As of April 29, it had garnered over 149,000 signatures. "To the New Jersey Legislature and Congress: Pass legislation so that teachers who bully children are immediately fired", petition at Change.org, access date 29 April 2012
Should this be here? maybe at the autism article? I think it may deserve its own article.(mercurywoodrose) 75.61.140.126 ( talk) 17:50, 29 April 2012 (UTC)
Is it worth including the prevalence of autisim/aspergers being used as slurs on the internet?
Because the article mentions anti-cure insults and sorta implies that they are a result of having autism and I think its worth noting that people with out autism can be just as hostile to people with it as the other way around.
Here is a reference: http://knowyourmeme.com/memes/autism — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.187.118.204 ( talk) 06:40, 6 May 2013 (UTC)
GA toolbox |
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Reviewing |
Reviewer: Shii ( talk · contribs) 21:35, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
I am afraid I must fail this article on a technical matter, rather than doing a more comprehensive review. The nominator of the article is now banned from autism-related articles and, obviously, this places some skepticism on the improvements he has made to Autism rights movement, which he appears to be a member of. Future editors of this article will have two main issues to confront before re-nominating it: (1) quality of sources (a lot of advocacy websites are being used here), and (2) possible distortion of sources. Shii (tock) 21:35, 29 September 2014 (UTC)
It seems to me that it is neither stylistically good for an encyclopaedia to include this massive quote, nor in compliance with WP policy on quotes. It doesn't have a proper citation (a link to the original quote, for instance), is far too long (see /info/en/?search=Wikipedia:Quotations#Overusing_quotations) and is probably a potential copvio issue too. I suggest someone looks into this (I would just delete it, but I feel it's best to discuss it first. Thanks. GoddersUK ( talk) 14:26, 1 January 2015 (UTC)
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While I agree that counterpoints and criticisms should be presented in all matters, Jonathan Mitchell has been known to personally attack and harass members of the Autism Rights Movement / Neurodiversity movement, and bringing attention to him only helps him grow in terms of people he can use to further his own personal agenda. On his new website; http://autismgadfly.blogspot.com/ ; he gives unauthorized medical advice to readers, a violation of law, along with other people in his group of people on Twitter using the #AutisticDarkWeb to harass people who are pro-neurodivergence. The Autistic Dark Web is becoming a hate group, and members of it have advocated to be "put to death by lethal injection" for those who are part of the ND movement (source: http://autismisbad.blogspot.com/2015/08/neurodiversity-amendment.html ),
I request a moderator or admin of Wikipedia look into this, if possible. Apologies if this post is a mess, I'm still unsure on the formatting for these things.
69.122.254.240 ( talk) 19:23, 1 June 2019 (UTC)DjangoSolarBoy
I noticed that viewpoints attributed to these three autistic individuals have been deleted from this article and a few other autism-related articles. There needs to be more discussion before a decision is made to erase their voices from Wikipedia. It appears that these passages were removed because the three expressed their opinions via facilitated communication, a discredited means of communication. However, Baggs ( https://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/28/the-language-of-autism/, https://www.wired.com/2008/02/ff-autism/) and Rubin ( https://www.newsweek.com/my-mind-began-wake-122229) are capable of typing independently. Sequenzia still needs support typing, but no reliable source seems to discount her views because of her method of communication. CatPath ( talk) 18:30, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
References
Jonathan Mitchell has self published one book and writes a blog. He has no academic papers published in relation to neurodiversity.
As he is not a prominent figure in the Neurodiversity conversation his inclusion gives undue weight to the criticism section. There is also COI issues regarding his inclusion due to his relationship with Ylevental.
Mattevansc3 ( talk) 03:11, 5 June 2019 (UTC)
Mattevansc3 ( talk) 00:46, 9 June 2019 (UTC)
Mattevansc3 ( talk) 21:44, 11 June 2019 (UTC)
Disputed neutrality. It focuses what autistic people and autistic activists say, not what experts in medical field say. Aocdnw ( talk) 10:53, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
Aocdnw: Do we really need to discuss flame wars on email lists? -- Wikiman2718 ( talk) 12:41, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
A scrap on a mailing list is far, far too excessive of detail to be worth inclusion on an article on a very broad topic like this. Material on the email dispute should be removed. Seraphimblade Talk to me 21:50, 3 August 2019 (UTC)
Of course Wikiman2718 is right. E-Mails? What's next, bathroom graffiti? -- Hob Gadling ( talk) 11:11, 16 August 2020 (UTC)
@ Niremetal: Here are two sources which state that the autistic community condemns Autism Speaks. The fist actually says "disability community". [1] [2]
References
The section is "views". It is the view of the autism rights movement that autism is a difference. Sometimes it is also considered as a disability. -- 66.244.121.212 ( talk) 21:41, 15 August 2020 (UTC)
Considering this and the Neurodiversity article are both appearing to be making huge overgeneralizations of a whole spectrum of individuals and related peers, each with their own varied thoughts regarding various treatments and also largely shows a clear bias against what autism scientists as many other autism advocates are currently saying, with its history of controversy and criticism both by mainstream scientists and other autism advocates in the page largely being ignored. Science isn't a democracy and I worry this page may become taken over by a small group of partisans (often those with low support needs) to push a clear political agenda for their own ends that will affect the autism community as a whole rather than to give the objective facts as they are being reported. Just so you know. I am not some pro-cure autism speaks advocate. I am a person with autism myself, and seeing the complete disregard of my and various other autistic people's wide beliefs under one anti-treatment banner is doing a great disservice for us. I implore people to please begin editing this page to reduce a level of significant bias in the article and to see things from both perspectives, and to take note of the great amount of division it has caused in the autism community such as with. [1], [2], [3], and [4] -- Special:Contributions/72.53.87.239 ( talk) 03:43, 09 November 2021 (EST)
References
Why is Michaelangelo featured here? The Autism rights movement did not exist during the period which Michaelangelo was alive and this does not make him a notable individual for the campaign of autism rights. It should be omitted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by APDHistorian ( talk • contribs) 11:50, 7 April 2022 (UTC)
why is the term aspergers syndrome used in this article? its own wikipedia page refers to it as outdated, and it hasn't been used in an official capacity for almost a decade. Cyan-Prince ( talk) 00:15, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
Twice now I've altered the image description for the "rainbow infinity" symbol from describing it as a neurodiversity symbol to specifically a symbol for autism. Both the citation on the page and the reputable sources I've been able to find in my own research have only made reference to the symbols use for autism, there is no mention of the broader neurodiversity movement. If people are going to keep changing the description to say that it's a symbol of the neurodiversity at large, they should also be providing a good quality source to cite for that, rather than leaving the current source which only makes reference to it's use relating to autistic people. Waitingtocompile ( talk) 15:24, 9 June 2022 (UTC)
At the moment the overview section seems crammed with irrelevant information, unrelated to the subject of the article. It appears to be an overview of random categories and their relation to autism, not an overview of the autism rights movement. Given it's lack of information on the subject of the article, is there anything written in it worth keeping? XeCyranium ( talk) 22:04, 5 October 2022 (UTC)
Probably not. Indeed much of the content is on autism and not the movement itself. I would suggest moving some sections over to other articles on autism since a lot of it is good information. FonkayMunkay97 ( talk) 03:02, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
Why do we got a redirect page if Autism rights movement isn't a movement for neurodivergent as a whole? I mean why, specifically? There are literally other disability observed movements that focus on other disorders and disabilities under the neurodiversity umbrella. Sheragirl10 ( talk) 11:57, 24 April 2023 (UTC)
The redirect Neurodiversity movement has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2024 February 10 § Neurodiversity movement until a consensus is reached. -- MikutoH talk! 01:21, 10 February 2024 (UTC)