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Under "late antiquity", the phrase "a task fraught with peril" seems a bit dramatic and editorializing. Recommend replacing with "difficult" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.21.76.216 ( talk) 17:30, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
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Change "Berber Jews" to "Amazigh" or "Mizrachi." " Berber Jews" is not accurate or appropriate. HorshJewCrab ( talk) 00:42, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Suggested edit ... New Section ... Controversies
The Law of Return and the Zionist Campaign to Subvert Science
"Despite Jewish historians and scholars acknowledging that a significant portion of the Jewish people living around the globe converted to Judaism during the last millennium (and therefore are not descendants of the people of Judea), controversy still exists as to which group comprises genuine descendants of Judea, and which group comprises converts to Judaism."
https://imemc.org/article/the-law-of-return-and-the-zionist-campaign-to-subvert-science/ 2601:444:300:B070:4D60:7443:4CDC:E701 ( talk) 15:54, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
− | Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or Ashkenazim, constitute a Jewish diaspora population that emerged in the Holy Roman Empire | + | Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or Ashkenazim, constitute a Jewish diaspora population that emerged in the Holy Roman Empire. |
"Around the end of the first millenium CE" is not reflected in the source used: Mosk, Carl (2013). Nationalism and economic development in modern Eurasia page 143.
Mosk writes The Germans were not the only group invited into the empires and kingdoms
that controlled territories in Central Europe. The Jews were an important second
group. There were two distinct groups of Jews with two separate geographic
patterns of migration throughout Europe: Ashkenazim and Sephardim. In 1900
of the approximately 10 million Jews worldwide, over 70 percent were Ashken-
azim residing in Central Europe. In general the Ashkenazim originally came out
of the Holy Roman Empire, speaking a version of German that incorporates
Hebrew and Slavic words, Yiddish. Encouraged to move out of the Holy Roman
Empire as persecution of their communities intensified during the twelfth and
thirteenth centuries, the Ashkenazim community increasingly gravitated toward
Poland.
He does not say when the Ashkenazim originated. The current statement is not supported by the citation.
2601:204:F100:83B0:E1C4:4964:FC7F:5162 (
talk) 10:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Not done. Ashkenazi_Jews#High_and_Late_Middle_Ages_migrations seems to support this statement and is referenced - perhaps look in those references? Jayjg (talk) 14:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
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This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
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In the lead,
− | Ashkenazim adapted their traditions to Europe and underwent | + | Ashkenazim adapted their traditions to Europe and underwent development in their traditions. |
This reflects the language used in the source better. The source is Centre, UNESCO World Heritage. "ShUM cities of Speyer, Worms and Mainz" (Archived).
The kehillot ShUM played a major role in establishing the specific principles underpinning Jewish life north of the Alps by adapting key aspects of Jewish cultural traditions from Babylon, the Holy Land, the western Mediterranean area and northern France – some of them stretching back to Antiquity – to the specific conditions of their living environment north of the Alps. Indeed, their influence even extended to how such principles were physically handed down from generation to generation. This novel development of Jewish ways of life and traditions, partially coloured by the Jews' close contact with a Christian environment, became characteristic of Ashkenazi Judaism, which in the modern era assumed lasting importance in the New World and in the state of Israel. For many of the legal decisions and traditions, rites and customs (minhagim) passed down by scholars in the Rhine region remain binding for Orthodox Jews to this very day.
It is a stretch to say that the Ashkenazim "underwent a transformation in their interpretation of Judaism" based what is said in the source. I do not see any evidence of a change in interpretation. 2601:204:F100:83B0:E1C4:4964:FC7F:5162 ( talk) 11:03, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
In the section Ashkenazi_Jews#Customs,_laws_and_traditions,
− | The Halakhic practices of (Orthodox) Ashkenazi Jews may differ from those of Sephardi Jews, particularly in matters of custom. Differences are noted in the Shulkhan Arukh itself, in the gloss of Moses Isserles. Well known differences in practice include:
| + | The Halakhic practices of (Orthodox) Ashkenazi Jews may differ from those of Sephardi Jews, particularly in matters of custom. Differences are noted in the Shulkhan Arukh itself, in the gloss of Moses Isserles. Well known differences in practice include:
The prayer shawl, or tallit (or tallis in Ashkenazi Hebrew), is worn by the majority of Ashkenazi men after marriage, but western European Ashkenazi men wear it from Bar Mitzvah. In Sephardi or Mizrahi Judaism, the prayer shawl is commonly worn from early childhood. |
Only the statement about the tallit/tallis is sourced. The rest are unsourced and unverifiable, so should be removed. From wikipedia policy
Wikipedia:Verifiability, Any material lacking an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the material may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source.
I challenge the unsourced claims and politely ask that they be removed, or sourced within a reasonable time.
2601:204:F100:83B0:E1C4:4964:FC7F:5162 (
talk) 11:13, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
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edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
For the same reason as above, I request that the section Ashkenazi_Jews#Ashkenazic liturgy be removed, or sourced within a reasonable time. 2601:204:F100:83B0:E1C4:4964:FC7F:5162 ( talk) 11:17, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Ashkenazi Jews article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
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|
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Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15Auto-archiving period: 14 days |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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This article has been
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Daily pageviews of this article
A graph should have been displayed here but
graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at
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Under "late antiquity", the phrase "a task fraught with peril" seems a bit dramatic and editorializing. Recommend replacing with "difficult" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.21.76.216 ( talk) 17:30, 31 March 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
Change "Berber Jews" to "Amazigh" or "Mizrachi." " Berber Jews" is not accurate or appropriate. HorshJewCrab ( talk) 00:42, 5 March 2024 (UTC)
Suggested edit ... New Section ... Controversies
The Law of Return and the Zionist Campaign to Subvert Science
"Despite Jewish historians and scholars acknowledging that a significant portion of the Jewish people living around the globe converted to Judaism during the last millennium (and therefore are not descendants of the people of Judea), controversy still exists as to which group comprises genuine descendants of Judea, and which group comprises converts to Judaism."
https://imemc.org/article/the-law-of-return-and-the-zionist-campaign-to-subvert-science/ 2601:444:300:B070:4D60:7443:4CDC:E701 ( talk) 15:54, 6 April 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
− | Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or Ashkenazim, constitute a Jewish diaspora population that emerged in the Holy Roman Empire | + | Ashkenazi Jews, also known as Ashkenazic Jews or Ashkenazim, constitute a Jewish diaspora population that emerged in the Holy Roman Empire. |
"Around the end of the first millenium CE" is not reflected in the source used: Mosk, Carl (2013). Nationalism and economic development in modern Eurasia page 143.
Mosk writes The Germans were not the only group invited into the empires and kingdoms
that controlled territories in Central Europe. The Jews were an important second
group. There were two distinct groups of Jews with two separate geographic
patterns of migration throughout Europe: Ashkenazim and Sephardim. In 1900
of the approximately 10 million Jews worldwide, over 70 percent were Ashken-
azim residing in Central Europe. In general the Ashkenazim originally came out
of the Holy Roman Empire, speaking a version of German that incorporates
Hebrew and Slavic words, Yiddish. Encouraged to move out of the Holy Roman
Empire as persecution of their communities intensified during the twelfth and
thirteenth centuries, the Ashkenazim community increasingly gravitated toward
Poland.
He does not say when the Ashkenazim originated. The current statement is not supported by the citation.
2601:204:F100:83B0:E1C4:4964:FC7F:5162 (
talk) 10:48, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
Not done. Ashkenazi_Jews#High_and_Late_Middle_Ages_migrations seems to support this statement and is referenced - perhaps look in those references? Jayjg (talk) 14:56, 28 April 2024 (UTC)
It is
requested that an edit be made to the
semi-protected article at
Ashkenazi Jews. (
·
history ·
last ·
links ·
protection log)
This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y".
The edit may be made by any
autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |
In the lead,
− | Ashkenazim adapted their traditions to Europe and underwent | + | Ashkenazim adapted their traditions to Europe and underwent development in their traditions. |
This reflects the language used in the source better. The source is Centre, UNESCO World Heritage. "ShUM cities of Speyer, Worms and Mainz" (Archived).
The kehillot ShUM played a major role in establishing the specific principles underpinning Jewish life north of the Alps by adapting key aspects of Jewish cultural traditions from Babylon, the Holy Land, the western Mediterranean area and northern France – some of them stretching back to Antiquity – to the specific conditions of their living environment north of the Alps. Indeed, their influence even extended to how such principles were physically handed down from generation to generation. This novel development of Jewish ways of life and traditions, partially coloured by the Jews' close contact with a Christian environment, became characteristic of Ashkenazi Judaism, which in the modern era assumed lasting importance in the New World and in the state of Israel. For many of the legal decisions and traditions, rites and customs (minhagim) passed down by scholars in the Rhine region remain binding for Orthodox Jews to this very day.
It is a stretch to say that the Ashkenazim "underwent a transformation in their interpretation of Judaism" based what is said in the source. I do not see any evidence of a change in interpretation. 2601:204:F100:83B0:E1C4:4964:FC7F:5162 ( talk) 11:03, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
In the section Ashkenazi_Jews#Customs,_laws_and_traditions,
− | The Halakhic practices of (Orthodox) Ashkenazi Jews may differ from those of Sephardi Jews, particularly in matters of custom. Differences are noted in the Shulkhan Arukh itself, in the gloss of Moses Isserles. Well known differences in practice include:
| + | The Halakhic practices of (Orthodox) Ashkenazi Jews may differ from those of Sephardi Jews, particularly in matters of custom. Differences are noted in the Shulkhan Arukh itself, in the gloss of Moses Isserles. Well known differences in practice include:
The prayer shawl, or tallit (or tallis in Ashkenazi Hebrew), is worn by the majority of Ashkenazi men after marriage, but western European Ashkenazi men wear it from Bar Mitzvah. In Sephardi or Mizrahi Judaism, the prayer shawl is commonly worn from early childhood. |
Only the statement about the tallit/tallis is sourced. The rest are unsourced and unverifiable, so should be removed. From wikipedia policy
Wikipedia:Verifiability, Any material lacking an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the material may be removed and should not be restored without an inline citation to a reliable source.
I challenge the unsourced claims and politely ask that they be removed, or sourced within a reasonable time.
2601:204:F100:83B0:E1C4:4964:FC7F:5162 (
talk) 11:13, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
This
edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request. |
For the same reason as above, I request that the section Ashkenazi_Jews#Ashkenazic liturgy be removed, or sourced within a reasonable time. 2601:204:F100:83B0:E1C4:4964:FC7F:5162 ( talk) 11:17, 26 April 2024 (UTC)