(Redirected from
Talk:Amytis of Babylon)
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What is the source for this? 71.71.47.209 ( talk) 19:00, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Proposed merger with Amitis Shahbanu
The articles describe two different people. Therefore, it is a bad idea to merge them. 169.229.103.240 ( talk) 17:13, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
There are two known Median princesses named Amytis, one being the daughter of Cyaxares who married Nebuchadrezzar, and one being the daughter of Astyages who married Cyrus. Therefore I suggest that this page about Cyaxares's daughter should be renamed to Amytis of Babylon instead, while the pagename "Amytis of Media" should be used for Astyages's daughter. Antiquistik ( talk) 09:53, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @
Antiquistik: Nebuchadnezzar II's wife seems to be commonly known as Amytis of Media, see
Google Scholar. See the
Google book research], "Amytis of Babylon" does not appear in any of the searches.
Mawer10 (
talk) 13:08, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- @ Mawer10: In this case, which would be a good alternative way of renaming the articles for the three Medo-Persian princesses named Amytis? Antiquistik ( talk) 17:43, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- @ Antiquistik: " Amytis of Media" for Nebuchadnezzar's wife as commonly used in the sources, the title "Amytis of Babylon" does not make much sense since she is not from Babylon. Keep " Amytis of Persia" for the daughter of Xerxes I. As for the daughter of Astyages and wife of Cyrus, it is better to use the title " Amytis (daughter of Astyages)" or " Amytis (wife of Cyrus II)". Mawer10 ( talk) 18:56, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: There is a consensus that the current title is not ideal, but not on the correct destination. Given this, I will complete the move as proposed, effectively restoring the status quo ante. ( non-admin closure) — Compassionate727 ( T· C) 16:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Amytis of Babylon → Amytis of Media – This is the common name by which this historical figure is known, per Google Scholar. Antiquistik ( talk) 05:09, 9 February 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request ( permalink). Antiquistik ( talk) 12:17, 12 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal ( talk) 19:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. asilvering ( talk) 05:15, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- As @ Mawer10: has noted above, the common name for this historical figure is "Amytis of Media," while "Amytis of Babylon" is not used. Therefore it would be better to revert my previous renaming of this page and to move it to "Amytis of Media" again. Antiquistik ( talk) 12:19, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps
Amytis (daughter of Cyaxares) to match
Amytis (daughter of Astyages)?
Srnec (
talk) 21:12, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
- @
Srnec: Does this fit
WP:COMMONNAME though?
Antiquistik (
talk) 18:51, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- @ Srnec: According to the Babylonian source that mentions this queen, she was the daughter of Astyages, but modern historians speculate that if she existed, she was probably the daughter of Cyaxares, as Astyages was very young in the time of Nabopolassar. See here. Amytis of Media is a natural title and is used in multiple sources, so there is no need to use a title with parentheses. Mawer10 ( talk) 20:56, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
Srnec: Does this fit
WP:COMMONNAME though?
Antiquistik (
talk) 18:51, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- @ Srnec: Basically that's it. The ancient Babylonian author Berossus informs us of an Amytis who married Nebuchadnezzar II who built the Hanging Gardens for her, while the Greek author Ctesias informs us of an Amytis who married Cyrus the Great. Both authors say that their Amytis is the daughter of the Median king Astyages, but modern historians doubt that Berossus' Amytis would be the daughter of Astyages because it is chronologically implausible and assume that Berossus confused Cyaxares with Astyages. So, even though the stories of these ancient authors have a disputed historicity, some historians find it plausible that Cyrus married a daughter of Astyages after he conquered Media or/and that a daughter of Cyaxares married a Babylonian king due to good relations between the Medes e Babylonians in 610s BCE. Mawer10 ( talk) 17:22, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Note: WikiProject Women's History and WikiProject Ancient Near East have been notified of this discussion. asilvering ( talk) 05:15, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- Move to Amytis (daughter of Cyaxares). Given the confusion mentioned above, I'm thinking Srnec's solution may be the best? Then Amytis of Babylon and Amytis of Media can be both disambiguation pages? I may have misunderstood the situation though. — Amakuru ( talk) 12:25, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
- @ Amakuru: The Amytis of this article is widely called the "Amytis of Media" in several sources. Apart from the same name and the fact that both authors claim that their Amytis are daughters of Astyages, there is nothing in common between the stories of the two women. Mawer10 ( talk) 15:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- I've requested closure for this at Wikipedia:Closure requests. Natg 19 ( talk) 22:30, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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(Redirected from
Talk:Amytis of Babylon)
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What is the source for this? 71.71.47.209 ( talk) 19:00, 1 June 2011 (UTC)
Proposed merger with Amitis Shahbanu
The articles describe two different people. Therefore, it is a bad idea to merge them. 169.229.103.240 ( talk) 17:13, 8 September 2012 (UTC)
There are two known Median princesses named Amytis, one being the daughter of Cyaxares who married Nebuchadrezzar, and one being the daughter of Astyages who married Cyrus. Therefore I suggest that this page about Cyaxares's daughter should be renamed to Amytis of Babylon instead, while the pagename "Amytis of Media" should be used for Astyages's daughter. Antiquistik ( talk) 09:53, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
- @
Antiquistik: Nebuchadnezzar II's wife seems to be commonly known as Amytis of Media, see
Google Scholar. See the
Google book research], "Amytis of Babylon" does not appear in any of the searches.
Mawer10 (
talk) 13:08, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
- @ Mawer10: In this case, which would be a good alternative way of renaming the articles for the three Medo-Persian princesses named Amytis? Antiquistik ( talk) 17:43, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- @ Antiquistik: " Amytis of Media" for Nebuchadnezzar's wife as commonly used in the sources, the title "Amytis of Babylon" does not make much sense since she is not from Babylon. Keep " Amytis of Persia" for the daughter of Xerxes I. As for the daughter of Astyages and wife of Cyrus, it is better to use the title " Amytis (daughter of Astyages)" or " Amytis (wife of Cyrus II)". Mawer10 ( talk) 18:56, 6 February 2024 (UTC)
- The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
The result of the move request was: There is a consensus that the current title is not ideal, but not on the correct destination. Given this, I will complete the move as proposed, effectively restoring the status quo ante. ( non-admin closure) — Compassionate727 ( T· C) 16:18, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
Amytis of Babylon → Amytis of Media – This is the common name by which this historical figure is known, per Google Scholar. Antiquistik ( talk) 05:09, 9 February 2024 (UTC) This is a contested technical request ( permalink). Antiquistik ( talk) 12:17, 12 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. BilledMammal ( talk) 19:16, 19 February 2024 (UTC) — Relisting. asilvering ( talk) 05:15, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- As @ Mawer10: has noted above, the common name for this historical figure is "Amytis of Media," while "Amytis of Babylon" is not used. Therefore it would be better to revert my previous renaming of this page and to move it to "Amytis of Media" again. Antiquistik ( talk) 12:19, 12 February 2024 (UTC)
- Perhaps
Amytis (daughter of Cyaxares) to match
Amytis (daughter of Astyages)?
Srnec (
talk) 21:12, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
- @
Srnec: Does this fit
WP:COMMONNAME though?
Antiquistik (
talk) 18:51, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- @ Srnec: According to the Babylonian source that mentions this queen, she was the daughter of Astyages, but modern historians speculate that if she existed, she was probably the daughter of Cyaxares, as Astyages was very young in the time of Nabopolassar. See here. Amytis of Media is a natural title and is used in multiple sources, so there is no need to use a title with parentheses. Mawer10 ( talk) 20:56, 7 March 2024 (UTC)
- @
Srnec: Does this fit
WP:COMMONNAME though?
Antiquistik (
talk) 18:51, 19 February 2024 (UTC)
- @ Srnec: Basically that's it. The ancient Babylonian author Berossus informs us of an Amytis who married Nebuchadnezzar II who built the Hanging Gardens for her, while the Greek author Ctesias informs us of an Amytis who married Cyrus the Great. Both authors say that their Amytis is the daughter of the Median king Astyages, but modern historians doubt that Berossus' Amytis would be the daughter of Astyages because it is chronologically implausible and assume that Berossus confused Cyaxares with Astyages. So, even though the stories of these ancient authors have a disputed historicity, some historians find it plausible that Cyrus married a daughter of Astyages after he conquered Media or/and that a daughter of Cyaxares married a Babylonian king due to good relations between the Medes e Babylonians in 610s BCE. Mawer10 ( talk) 17:22, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
- Note: WikiProject Women's History and WikiProject Ancient Near East have been notified of this discussion. asilvering ( talk) 05:15, 16 March 2024 (UTC)
- Move to Amytis (daughter of Cyaxares). Given the confusion mentioned above, I'm thinking Srnec's solution may be the best? Then Amytis of Babylon and Amytis of Media can be both disambiguation pages? I may have misunderstood the situation though. — Amakuru ( talk) 12:25, 25 March 2024 (UTC)
- @ Amakuru: The Amytis of this article is widely called the "Amytis of Media" in several sources. Apart from the same name and the fact that both authors claim that their Amytis are daughters of Astyages, there is nothing in common between the stories of the two women. Mawer10 ( talk) 15:32, 2 April 2024 (UTC)
- I've requested closure for this at Wikipedia:Closure requests. Natg 19 ( talk) 22:30, 18 April 2024 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Categories:
- Start-Class Ancient Near East articles
- Low-importance Ancient Near East articles
- Ancient Near East articles by assessment
- Start-Class biography articles
- Start-Class biography (royalty) articles
- Unknown-importance biography (royalty) articles
- Royalty work group articles
- WikiProject Biography articles
- Start-Class Iraq articles
- Mid-importance Iraq articles
- WikiProject Iraq articles
- Start-Class Women's History articles
- Mid-importance Women's History articles
- All WikiProject Women-related pages
- WikiProject Women's History articles
- Start-Class Iran articles
- Mid-importance Iran articles
- WikiProject Iran articles