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Where should American Gangster point?
I posit that most people when searching for "American Gangster" are going to be looking for an article on the film. (And based on the backlinks, that is certainly the case.) I redirected the regular page without parenthesis to American Gangster (film) and used
to add a link back to the disambiguation page in case the reader is looking for a different article. I also added similar templates to American Gangster (TV series) and American Gangster (album). Why doesn't this system work? I haven't gone as far to suggest that American Gangster (film) should be moved to American Gangster, but that might be a good idea as well. Paul C/ T + 00:09, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- The argument is based on recentism. I would suggest American Gangster being the disambiguation page since there are three separate items covering this title. The popularity of the film will pass; we need to set up the pages in a more static fashion, not just placing a certain topic at the foremost of a keyword just because it's going to be topic of the week. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 01:01, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- Also, the reambiguators have nothing to do with the film/disambiguation page issue. If a person clicks on a link to one of the American Gangster topics on some other article, they will wind up at the correct page. They do not need a disambiguation page back to the general collection of American Gangster topics -- they reambiguate the issue. The only time this would be implemented here is if American Gangster led to the film article, then the disambiguation link would be necessary to uncover the other two topics called "American Gangster". If a reader wants to find the relevant American Gangster topic, the breadcrumbs are set. They will not accidentally end up at the TV series article or album article and require guidance to the disambiguation page. If they do, there's a link that needs to be fixed. Otherwise, it's not necessary. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 01:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- The other two articles are, in part, based on and inspired by the film. "Recentism" really doesn't have much to do with my argument, just the sheer mass-appeal of the film over the TV series or album in general is going to result in more people looking for the film instead of the other two articles. In addition, those people who are looking for the other two articles will likely also be familiar with the film due to the fact that both were inspired by it and therefore won't be confused by American Gangster redirecting to the film. I'm not sure if American Gangster should be a redirect or if it should be the film article, but I'm leaning towards keeping it as a redirect in order to keep the disambiguation page clear. Regarding the "reambiguatiors", I see what you mean about their not being needed on the TV series and album pages. But based on my above argument, it should be present in the article for the film. Paul C/ T + 20:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, on second thought, there have been occasions where someone used the "pipe" trick ([[some article (that has parentheses)|]] →
some article) in an article and when I click on it I expected to end up at a different article. Having the reambiguatiors in these cases is useful and make sense, even if the link is correctly formatted.
Paul
C/
T
+ 20:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what you mean about expecting a different article. The wiki-link should lead to the relevant article, based on the context of the previous article. For example, if on Jay-Z a passage talks about him creating this new film-inspired album, a link is given to the album article. I'm not sure in what instances someone would end up at an undesired article if the wiki-links and context fit. Also, the album has a fair share of links. The TV series is obviously the most stubby item. The so-called "sheer mass-appeal" is because of recentism -- in five years, would the film truly be categorized as more significant than the album? Having American Gangster as the disambiguation page, especially with three existing topics and possibly more "American Gangster" topics out there is the most objective approach. Considering that the TV series had the phrase before the film, it's not a situation of having one topic influence related topics, like John Hancock or Valkyrie. Having American Gangster lead to the film is only a minor and subjective convenience at best. Some films have titles consisting of very common words or phrases like the ones at Wanted, but they're not at the forefront. Wikipedia has been structured like this for a long time, and it's not exactly a burden for readers to click a couple of times to get to the preferred topic. The film is just not a "core" topic around which many others are based. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 23:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
There is a 1992 documentary called The American Gangster, another indication that the 2007 film is not the origination of the term. This additional item also supports further usage of the disambiguation page as the forefront for "American Gangster" rather than a film that will be popular this month. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 15:56, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- I've created a stub for The American Gangster. It has a disambiguation link, considering that the other items are not preceded with "The". I've checked for Ghits, and there's not much ambivalence with the 2007 film's title -- it's merely "American Gangster", no "The" involved. Let me know what you think. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 19:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
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| This disambiguation page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||
| |||||||||||||||
Where should American Gangster point?
I posit that most people when searching for "American Gangster" are going to be looking for an article on the film. (And based on the backlinks, that is certainly the case.) I redirected the regular page without parenthesis to American Gangster (film) and used
to add a link back to the disambiguation page in case the reader is looking for a different article. I also added similar templates to American Gangster (TV series) and American Gangster (album). Why doesn't this system work? I haven't gone as far to suggest that American Gangster (film) should be moved to American Gangster, but that might be a good idea as well. Paul C/ T + 00:09, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- The argument is based on recentism. I would suggest American Gangster being the disambiguation page since there are three separate items covering this title. The popularity of the film will pass; we need to set up the pages in a more static fashion, not just placing a certain topic at the foremost of a keyword just because it's going to be topic of the week. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 01:01, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- Also, the reambiguators have nothing to do with the film/disambiguation page issue. If a person clicks on a link to one of the American Gangster topics on some other article, they will wind up at the correct page. They do not need a disambiguation page back to the general collection of American Gangster topics -- they reambiguate the issue. The only time this would be implemented here is if American Gangster led to the film article, then the disambiguation link would be necessary to uncover the other two topics called "American Gangster". If a reader wants to find the relevant American Gangster topic, the breadcrumbs are set. They will not accidentally end up at the TV series article or album article and require guidance to the disambiguation page. If they do, there's a link that needs to be fixed. Otherwise, it's not necessary. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 01:07, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- The other two articles are, in part, based on and inspired by the film. "Recentism" really doesn't have much to do with my argument, just the sheer mass-appeal of the film over the TV series or album in general is going to result in more people looking for the film instead of the other two articles. In addition, those people who are looking for the other two articles will likely also be familiar with the film due to the fact that both were inspired by it and therefore won't be confused by American Gangster redirecting to the film. I'm not sure if American Gangster should be a redirect or if it should be the film article, but I'm leaning towards keeping it as a redirect in order to keep the disambiguation page clear. Regarding the "reambiguatiors", I see what you mean about their not being needed on the TV series and album pages. But based on my above argument, it should be present in the article for the film. Paul C/ T + 20:47, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- Actually, on second thought, there have been occasions where someone used the "pipe" trick ([[some article (that has parentheses)|]] →
some article) in an article and when I click on it I expected to end up at a different article. Having the reambiguatiors in these cases is useful and make sense, even if the link is correctly formatted.
Paul
C/
T
+ 20:56, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
- I'm not sure what you mean about expecting a different article. The wiki-link should lead to the relevant article, based on the context of the previous article. For example, if on Jay-Z a passage talks about him creating this new film-inspired album, a link is given to the album article. I'm not sure in what instances someone would end up at an undesired article if the wiki-links and context fit. Also, the album has a fair share of links. The TV series is obviously the most stubby item. The so-called "sheer mass-appeal" is because of recentism -- in five years, would the film truly be categorized as more significant than the album? Having American Gangster as the disambiguation page, especially with three existing topics and possibly more "American Gangster" topics out there is the most objective approach. Considering that the TV series had the phrase before the film, it's not a situation of having one topic influence related topics, like John Hancock or Valkyrie. Having American Gangster lead to the film is only a minor and subjective convenience at best. Some films have titles consisting of very common words or phrases like the ones at Wanted, but they're not at the forefront. Wikipedia has been structured like this for a long time, and it's not exactly a burden for readers to click a couple of times to get to the preferred topic. The film is just not a "core" topic around which many others are based. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 23:44, 1 November 2007 (UTC)
There is a 1992 documentary called The American Gangster, another indication that the 2007 film is not the origination of the term. This additional item also supports further usage of the disambiguation page as the forefront for "American Gangster" rather than a film that will be popular this month. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 15:56, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
- I've created a stub for The American Gangster. It has a disambiguation link, considering that the other items are not preceded with "The". I've checked for Ghits, and there's not much ambivalence with the 2007 film's title -- it's merely "American Gangster", no "The" involved. Let me know what you think. — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 19:44, 2 November 2007 (UTC)