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Aluminium | Sulfur | Caesium |
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Is it the general consensus that wikipedia uses the IUPAC names? Seems to me that would often enough not be the WP:COMMONNAME. (I have gotten into WP:COMMONNAME discussions often enough, where I knew the technically correct name, but another name was more popular, often because it is shorter.) I am asking in general, and not intending to suggest a rename for this page. Gah4 ( talk) 18:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
Language is decided by the people who use the language. If most people use one word over another, then the most common word is correct. In this case, Aluminum is more used than Aluminium. Aluminum is thus the true spelling. Aluminum has been more common in various books for over a decade. I suggest that we rename the "aluminium" page to aluminum. GreenLight-Wiki ( talk) 17:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
I am not debating the SPELLING preference between Aluminum vs aluminium. I am stating that they are two entirely separate words with two entirely separate meanings. FYI: I have written a LOT here because I literally have nothing better to do, so hopefully that helps people understand. I'm just chatting away, trying my best to get my point across. Anyway...
If we write these articles correctly, this debate will end and we will actually be educating people... which is kind of the point. Right? Like, no one is arguing that Steel is actually called Iron, while the other half insists that Iron is correctly called Steel; because we are all correctly educated. But Aluminium vs Aluminum is the exact same situation with the exception that no one seems to understand the difference this time.
Sometimes origins get lost, like the technology for America to get back to the moon got "lost" (that's NASA's statement, not mine), and this is one of these moments. I have done a very deep dive based on my curiosity as to how we Americans ended up calling Aluminium Aluminum, and how it is that the British are calling Aluminum Aluminium. It all stems from a simple misunderstanding on everyone's part. Aluminium is the element, Aluminum is the alloy. Everyone has held Aluminum in their hand. Pretty much no one has even seen Aluminium. And here is why:
First, Humphrey Davy did not discover Aluminium (sorry Cornwall); nor did the Dane, Hans Christian Ørsted. Davy mathematically theorized its existence as the 13th element and named it ALUMINUM in 1812ish. It was theorized because it is unstable and almost never exists in nature, so no one had found any. However, the Aluminum kerfuffle set all the scientist nerds complaining that he broke the Latin naming convention. So he spelled it correctly, in Latinized nerd speak, as ALUMINIUM; which is how I, as an American, learned it in high school chemistry - as do many other Americans and Canadian teenagers; and how ALL North American collegiate chemistry students learn it - as ALUMINIUM.
Hans Christian Ørsted is credited as creating the first Aluminium, but he created an alloy, not Aluminium, and he also dismissed his discovery as irrelevant.
A German named Friedrich Woehler actually created the first pure elemental Aluminium in 1845. He discovered it. Yet he isn't credited as the first creator/discoverer. Just as, in the U.S.A., Alberto Santos-Dumont is not credited as the inventor of the airplane, but absurdly, the Wright Brothers are - who definitely didn't. This political B.S. happens.
This is a good point for a cut and paste simplified break down of how Aluminium is made then turned into Aluminum. Notice how many times alum and Aluminium appear as a compound word, yet isn't Aluminium, but something else needing further refinement.
Okay: Bauxite is mined and mixed with sodium hydroxide then heated under pressure. At this stage, the sodium hydroxide selectively dissolves impure ""aluminium oxide"" molecule chains from the bauxite, producing a complex hydrated Aluminium based slurry with other minerals as impurities. (No aluminium yet and definitely no Aluminum yet.) The impurities are separated and filtered from the solution, forming a residue known as red mud. Soda is added to to get a ""Sodium aluminate"" solution and is cooled and precipitated into a solid, crystallized form of ""aluminium hydroxide"". (Nope. Not yet.) The aluminium hydroxide crystals are washed and heated in calciners to form pure ""aluminium oxide"" — a sandy white material known as ""alumina"". (Aluminium Oxide, aka Alumina! Getting close!) In aluminium smelter facilities, hundreds of electrolytic reduction cells are filled up with molten cryolite. Alumina is then dumped into these cells, and a strong electric current breaks the chemical bond between aluminium and oxygen atoms. The electrolysis results in liquid aluminium settling at the bottom of the cell, which is then highly purified and cast into ingots. (Yay! Pure elemental Aluminium is finally here!!)
So, where is the Aluminum? The Aluminium is smelted with copper, magnesium, manganese, silicon, tin, nickel or zinc in differing quantities for the qualities needed to get different Aluminum. The alloy Aluminum is also needed because if Aluminium is not stabilized, it will corrode and degrade right back into Aluminium Oxide as it interacts with moisture in the air. Aluminium Oxide is neither Aluminium nor Aluminum, but a white worthless dust you could call a rust. Similar to iron rust.
Well, here comes our problem, Aluminium was incredibly difficult to make and therefore was extremely expensive all the way up to 1958 when things were finally economically viable. So until 1958, the average person had not heard of Aluminium, but chemists, INCLUDING AMERICAN chemists, did know about it. In 1958, Coors brewery in Colorado USA released the first ALUMINUM cans in the world. And as I stated earlier, as steel is not iron, Aluminum cans are not Aluminium, they are an Aluminium alloy the US manufacturers called by Davy's name of Aluminum. In the U.K., Aluminium was used for both. This means that technically, the Americans are more correct. If you don't think this is true, ask yourself these questions: if both are the same thing and therefor can be called by the same name, why do they exhibit starkly different characteristics? One is atomic, as in elemental. The other is molecular. Why does one deteriorate into dust and can't exist in nature, while the other is man made and resistant to corrosion? Why is one soft and malleable, while the other is rigid and strong? Why did they come into existence about 100 years apart? Clearly the two are not one in the same. Aluminium is an element. Aluminum is an alloy product. One is atomically pure. The other is a hybrid. One makes a ton of things. The other makes nearly nothing.
Now I have read the comments in this talk, and holy crap, nearly all of you are coming off as raging idiots with ego complexes. I don't think any of you want to be correct, you want to be right. Not adhering to proper naming and pronunciation conventions is why no one can read Chaucer anymore. The Scottish can't say, "The Irish wristwatch has a purple burglar alarm". And no one at all has a clue what the Welsh are carrying on about. With the way the English pronounce their R's and A's, they'll soon be spelling car as cra. And no America, an appearance in a movie is not called a cameo unless the actor appears as himself. And duvets are not comforters. They are the thing that comforters go inside of to keep them clean. And stop calling caulk cock. Pronounce your L's for crying out loud. You're as bad as the British with the R's. You go for a waLk to taLk. Got it?
I also don't think anything gets accomplished on Wikipedia. People get locked into pissing contests and refuse to be reasonable. I'm not even going to try to edit a single article about "Aluminium" to correctly call the element Aluminium and the alloy Aluminum. You will both get offended and put it right back into the pissing match. But I highly advise that the crux of what I gave you be boiled down to a simple paragraph as an explanation, then continue to use the IUPAC's precious politically motivated compromised definition and Spain will continue to be internationally considered "neutral during WWII... even though they colluded with and assisted the Nazis. Yeah Spain, you know what you did. Sinners. The Strid ( talk) 10:01, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
The form aluminum is in common use in mining, manufacturing, and the trade in the United States; the form aluminium is used with practical uniformity in Great Britain and generally by chemists in the United States."
Please use a more original title than "Spelling" when starting a new section. We have quite a few of those already. For a similarly never-ending debate, see |
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
Frequently asked questions
|
|
|||
This page has archives. Sections older than 365 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 2 sections are present. |
Aluminium | Sulfur | Caesium |
---|
Is it the general consensus that wikipedia uses the IUPAC names? Seems to me that would often enough not be the WP:COMMONNAME. (I have gotten into WP:COMMONNAME discussions often enough, where I knew the technically correct name, but another name was more popular, often because it is shorter.) I am asking in general, and not intending to suggest a rename for this page. Gah4 ( talk) 18:00, 29 May 2019 (UTC)
Language is decided by the people who use the language. If most people use one word over another, then the most common word is correct. In this case, Aluminum is more used than Aluminium. Aluminum is thus the true spelling. Aluminum has been more common in various books for over a decade. I suggest that we rename the "aluminium" page to aluminum. GreenLight-Wiki ( talk) 17:09, 5 August 2023 (UTC)
I am not debating the SPELLING preference between Aluminum vs aluminium. I am stating that they are two entirely separate words with two entirely separate meanings. FYI: I have written a LOT here because I literally have nothing better to do, so hopefully that helps people understand. I'm just chatting away, trying my best to get my point across. Anyway...
If we write these articles correctly, this debate will end and we will actually be educating people... which is kind of the point. Right? Like, no one is arguing that Steel is actually called Iron, while the other half insists that Iron is correctly called Steel; because we are all correctly educated. But Aluminium vs Aluminum is the exact same situation with the exception that no one seems to understand the difference this time.
Sometimes origins get lost, like the technology for America to get back to the moon got "lost" (that's NASA's statement, not mine), and this is one of these moments. I have done a very deep dive based on my curiosity as to how we Americans ended up calling Aluminium Aluminum, and how it is that the British are calling Aluminum Aluminium. It all stems from a simple misunderstanding on everyone's part. Aluminium is the element, Aluminum is the alloy. Everyone has held Aluminum in their hand. Pretty much no one has even seen Aluminium. And here is why:
First, Humphrey Davy did not discover Aluminium (sorry Cornwall); nor did the Dane, Hans Christian Ørsted. Davy mathematically theorized its existence as the 13th element and named it ALUMINUM in 1812ish. It was theorized because it is unstable and almost never exists in nature, so no one had found any. However, the Aluminum kerfuffle set all the scientist nerds complaining that he broke the Latin naming convention. So he spelled it correctly, in Latinized nerd speak, as ALUMINIUM; which is how I, as an American, learned it in high school chemistry - as do many other Americans and Canadian teenagers; and how ALL North American collegiate chemistry students learn it - as ALUMINIUM.
Hans Christian Ørsted is credited as creating the first Aluminium, but he created an alloy, not Aluminium, and he also dismissed his discovery as irrelevant.
A German named Friedrich Woehler actually created the first pure elemental Aluminium in 1845. He discovered it. Yet he isn't credited as the first creator/discoverer. Just as, in the U.S.A., Alberto Santos-Dumont is not credited as the inventor of the airplane, but absurdly, the Wright Brothers are - who definitely didn't. This political B.S. happens.
This is a good point for a cut and paste simplified break down of how Aluminium is made then turned into Aluminum. Notice how many times alum and Aluminium appear as a compound word, yet isn't Aluminium, but something else needing further refinement.
Okay: Bauxite is mined and mixed with sodium hydroxide then heated under pressure. At this stage, the sodium hydroxide selectively dissolves impure ""aluminium oxide"" molecule chains from the bauxite, producing a complex hydrated Aluminium based slurry with other minerals as impurities. (No aluminium yet and definitely no Aluminum yet.) The impurities are separated and filtered from the solution, forming a residue known as red mud. Soda is added to to get a ""Sodium aluminate"" solution and is cooled and precipitated into a solid, crystallized form of ""aluminium hydroxide"". (Nope. Not yet.) The aluminium hydroxide crystals are washed and heated in calciners to form pure ""aluminium oxide"" — a sandy white material known as ""alumina"". (Aluminium Oxide, aka Alumina! Getting close!) In aluminium smelter facilities, hundreds of electrolytic reduction cells are filled up with molten cryolite. Alumina is then dumped into these cells, and a strong electric current breaks the chemical bond between aluminium and oxygen atoms. The electrolysis results in liquid aluminium settling at the bottom of the cell, which is then highly purified and cast into ingots. (Yay! Pure elemental Aluminium is finally here!!)
So, where is the Aluminum? The Aluminium is smelted with copper, magnesium, manganese, silicon, tin, nickel or zinc in differing quantities for the qualities needed to get different Aluminum. The alloy Aluminum is also needed because if Aluminium is not stabilized, it will corrode and degrade right back into Aluminium Oxide as it interacts with moisture in the air. Aluminium Oxide is neither Aluminium nor Aluminum, but a white worthless dust you could call a rust. Similar to iron rust.
Well, here comes our problem, Aluminium was incredibly difficult to make and therefore was extremely expensive all the way up to 1958 when things were finally economically viable. So until 1958, the average person had not heard of Aluminium, but chemists, INCLUDING AMERICAN chemists, did know about it. In 1958, Coors brewery in Colorado USA released the first ALUMINUM cans in the world. And as I stated earlier, as steel is not iron, Aluminum cans are not Aluminium, they are an Aluminium alloy the US manufacturers called by Davy's name of Aluminum. In the U.K., Aluminium was used for both. This means that technically, the Americans are more correct. If you don't think this is true, ask yourself these questions: if both are the same thing and therefor can be called by the same name, why do they exhibit starkly different characteristics? One is atomic, as in elemental. The other is molecular. Why does one deteriorate into dust and can't exist in nature, while the other is man made and resistant to corrosion? Why is one soft and malleable, while the other is rigid and strong? Why did they come into existence about 100 years apart? Clearly the two are not one in the same. Aluminium is an element. Aluminum is an alloy product. One is atomically pure. The other is a hybrid. One makes a ton of things. The other makes nearly nothing.
Now I have read the comments in this talk, and holy crap, nearly all of you are coming off as raging idiots with ego complexes. I don't think any of you want to be correct, you want to be right. Not adhering to proper naming and pronunciation conventions is why no one can read Chaucer anymore. The Scottish can't say, "The Irish wristwatch has a purple burglar alarm". And no one at all has a clue what the Welsh are carrying on about. With the way the English pronounce their R's and A's, they'll soon be spelling car as cra. And no America, an appearance in a movie is not called a cameo unless the actor appears as himself. And duvets are not comforters. They are the thing that comforters go inside of to keep them clean. And stop calling caulk cock. Pronounce your L's for crying out loud. You're as bad as the British with the R's. You go for a waLk to taLk. Got it?
I also don't think anything gets accomplished on Wikipedia. People get locked into pissing contests and refuse to be reasonable. I'm not even going to try to edit a single article about "Aluminium" to correctly call the element Aluminium and the alloy Aluminum. You will both get offended and put it right back into the pissing match. But I highly advise that the crux of what I gave you be boiled down to a simple paragraph as an explanation, then continue to use the IUPAC's precious politically motivated compromised definition and Spain will continue to be internationally considered "neutral during WWII... even though they colluded with and assisted the Nazis. Yeah Spain, you know what you did. Sinners. The Strid ( talk) 10:01, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
The form aluminum is in common use in mining, manufacturing, and the trade in the United States; the form aluminium is used with practical uniformity in Great Britain and generally by chemists in the United States."