This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
OK, what's the official version of the title of this story? Is it:
or what? Certainly, including the double quotes in the article title goes against the Wikipedia manual of Style (although double quotes are used around short story titles within articles) -- unless, of course, there's some special reason for including them. -- The Anome 23:12, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)
It was originally published in F&SF in 1959, but I know what issue. Lefty 01:52, 2005 Feb 1 (UTC)
The title should carry an em dash at the end, all enclosed by single quotation marks (to denote that it's an excerpt from the narrator's final speech), the whole enclosed by double quotation marks (as usual for for short story titles):
" 'All You Zombies—' "
This is how it appears in the 1963 anthology The Worlds of Science Fiction, edited by Robert Mills. It also appears in this form in Alexei Panshin's Heinlein in Dimension (1968); see Panshin's own posting of this book at www.enter.net/~torve/critics/Dimension/hd04-1.html. It would be nice if all Wikipedia mentions of this title (including those not editable by users) were switched to this form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.151.217.26 ( talk) 19:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
The page moved from "—All You Zombies—" to "All You Zombies—", but the article itself still includes both the beginning and ending mdashes. I don't know which punctuation is correct, but whichever one it is, we should be consistent between the name of the page and the text in the page. -- Psiphiorg 20:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
So what is the official title?
My copy of The Best of Robert Heinlein 1947-1959 lists it in the table of contents as All You Zombies (no quotes, no dashes), but the first page of the story shows it as "--All You Zombies--".
My copy of The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathon Hoag lists it in the table of contents as "All You Zombies" (with quotes, but no dashes), but the first page of the story shows it as "--All You Zombies--".
James Gifford's Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader's Companion gives the title as "All You Zombies--".
In a letter to Lurton Blassingame excerpted on page 156 of Grumbles From The Grave, Heinlein refers to it as "All You Zombies" (in quotes, no dashes). (As casual correspondence, though, I'm not sure that this reference counts.)
How did we settle on "All You Zombies--"? -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 05:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
"An alternative explanation for this final line is that the narrator is reminiscing about his love for two unique and pivotal characters from his life: his older male lover and his young female paramour. Although both of them are actually the narrator himself, he has experienced each as if they were another person. In effect, the man has met himself three times, each time as a stranger. In this interpretation, the story becomes a metaphor for the alienation of the self from one phase of life to another."
"Here Heinlein is indulging in yet another of his trademark themes, that of solipsism." This is not what I would call "neutral" wording. I have rephrased it--replacing "indulging in yet another" with "revisiting one"--to remove the pejorative tone. Thanks. 75.73.21.101 15:50, 27 March 2007 (UTC)Sergei Alderman
I think that we should use the term that is used in the actual story. Will someone look this up in the story and make the change? — Val42 17:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed this was moved quite a while ago (during the edit warring over spoiler tags, when I'd unwatched it), and I'm a bit curious why, as well as why the redirect was deleted. It seems to me like the title actually includes the quotation marks, which would mean they should be part of the article title, unlike for other short stories where the quotation marks are used simply for proper grammar. Am I understanding that correctly, or not? If I am, should it be moved back to where it was? - Bbik ★ 20:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
At the end of the summary I see that the zombies referred to are incorrectly identified. The "zombies" in question are not his younger selves (that's ridiculous, he IS them) nor the readers, but all people born "naturally". He knows where he comes from more intimately than any other person possibly can because he was directly involved in every aspect of his birth. A closed time-like curve. Therefore he is intrigued by anyone not having this knowledge. 71.209.88.26 ( talk) 06:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Is Jane the first intersex character to appear in american fiction? There are some earlier charecters who have been both man and woman like Woolfe's Orlando, but they undergo a magical transformation and are not biologically interesexed. Litch ( talk) 20:05, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I know one could have both sets of organs, but would the gametes or chromosomes or whatever in the testes and ova work out properly? I'm sure there are some worms and frogs and such that could get this thing done, but could a human? I mean, assume the existence of a functioning time machine, has there ever been a human that could pull this caper off?
I'm surprised it's not mentioned anywhere, but there was a popular song by the Hooters from the '80s by the same name (notwithstanding the punctuation issues), described here: [1]. Should that not be included under Outside References? I'd add it myself, but I'm not 100% certain the song is referencing the short story - certainly the lyrics seem to have no relation.
75.171.28.157 ( talk) 17:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)Deadtvs
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 22:40, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
All You Zombies (short story) → All You Zombies – Short story is easily the primary topic; dab page isn't needed for a song that had a low charting. Relisted. BDD ( talk) 18:56, 26 August 2013 (UTC) — Ryulong ( 琉竜) 09:04, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.Please see the RM discussion at Talk:'—And He Built a Crooked House—'#Requested move 7 December 2023. — BarrelProof ( talk) 20:02, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
Randykitty has made repeated good-faith but incorrect edits to the formatting and punctuation of the title of the story in one section of this article. They should have come to the talk page after the first revert, per WP:BRD, but better late than never. Please read the explanatory notes on the article and on this page before making any more edits to the title in the article. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 22:55, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated Start-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
OK, what's the official version of the title of this story? Is it:
or what? Certainly, including the double quotes in the article title goes against the Wikipedia manual of Style (although double quotes are used around short story titles within articles) -- unless, of course, there's some special reason for including them. -- The Anome 23:12, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)
It was originally published in F&SF in 1959, but I know what issue. Lefty 01:52, 2005 Feb 1 (UTC)
The title should carry an em dash at the end, all enclosed by single quotation marks (to denote that it's an excerpt from the narrator's final speech), the whole enclosed by double quotation marks (as usual for for short story titles):
" 'All You Zombies—' "
This is how it appears in the 1963 anthology The Worlds of Science Fiction, edited by Robert Mills. It also appears in this form in Alexei Panshin's Heinlein in Dimension (1968); see Panshin's own posting of this book at www.enter.net/~torve/critics/Dimension/hd04-1.html. It would be nice if all Wikipedia mentions of this title (including those not editable by users) were switched to this form. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.151.217.26 ( talk) 19:11, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
The page moved from "—All You Zombies—" to "All You Zombies—", but the article itself still includes both the beginning and ending mdashes. I don't know which punctuation is correct, but whichever one it is, we should be consistent between the name of the page and the text in the page. -- Psiphiorg 20:42, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
So what is the official title?
My copy of The Best of Robert Heinlein 1947-1959 lists it in the table of contents as All You Zombies (no quotes, no dashes), but the first page of the story shows it as "--All You Zombies--".
My copy of The Unpleasant Profession of Jonathon Hoag lists it in the table of contents as "All You Zombies" (with quotes, but no dashes), but the first page of the story shows it as "--All You Zombies--".
James Gifford's Robert A. Heinlein: A Reader's Companion gives the title as "All You Zombies--".
In a letter to Lurton Blassingame excerpted on page 156 of Grumbles From The Grave, Heinlein refers to it as "All You Zombies" (in quotes, no dashes). (As casual correspondence, though, I'm not sure that this reference counts.)
How did we settle on "All You Zombies--"? -- Jim Douglas (talk) (contribs) 05:07, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
"An alternative explanation for this final line is that the narrator is reminiscing about his love for two unique and pivotal characters from his life: his older male lover and his young female paramour. Although both of them are actually the narrator himself, he has experienced each as if they were another person. In effect, the man has met himself three times, each time as a stranger. In this interpretation, the story becomes a metaphor for the alienation of the self from one phase of life to another."
"Here Heinlein is indulging in yet another of his trademark themes, that of solipsism." This is not what I would call "neutral" wording. I have rephrased it--replacing "indulging in yet another" with "revisiting one"--to remove the pejorative tone. Thanks. 75.73.21.101 15:50, 27 March 2007 (UTC)Sergei Alderman
I think that we should use the term that is used in the actual story. Will someone look this up in the story and make the change? — Val42 17:04, 13 July 2007 (UTC)
I just noticed this was moved quite a while ago (during the edit warring over spoiler tags, when I'd unwatched it), and I'm a bit curious why, as well as why the redirect was deleted. It seems to me like the title actually includes the quotation marks, which would mean they should be part of the article title, unlike for other short stories where the quotation marks are used simply for proper grammar. Am I understanding that correctly, or not? If I am, should it be moved back to where it was? - Bbik ★ 20:02, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
At the end of the summary I see that the zombies referred to are incorrectly identified. The "zombies" in question are not his younger selves (that's ridiculous, he IS them) nor the readers, but all people born "naturally". He knows where he comes from more intimately than any other person possibly can because he was directly involved in every aspect of his birth. A closed time-like curve. Therefore he is intrigued by anyone not having this knowledge. 71.209.88.26 ( talk) 06:07, 9 April 2008 (UTC)
Is Jane the first intersex character to appear in american fiction? There are some earlier charecters who have been both man and woman like Woolfe's Orlando, but they undergo a magical transformation and are not biologically interesexed. Litch ( talk) 20:05, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
I know one could have both sets of organs, but would the gametes or chromosomes or whatever in the testes and ova work out properly? I'm sure there are some worms and frogs and such that could get this thing done, but could a human? I mean, assume the existence of a functioning time machine, has there ever been a human that could pull this caper off?
I'm surprised it's not mentioned anywhere, but there was a popular song by the Hooters from the '80s by the same name (notwithstanding the punctuation issues), described here: [1]. Should that not be included under Outside References? I'd add it myself, but I'm not 100% certain the song is referencing the short story - certainly the lyrics seem to have no relation.
75.171.28.157 ( talk) 17:01, 20 January 2012 (UTC)Deadtvs
The result of the proposal was moved. -- BDD ( talk) 22:40, 6 September 2013 (UTC)
All You Zombies (short story) → All You Zombies – Short story is easily the primary topic; dab page isn't needed for a song that had a low charting. Relisted. BDD ( talk) 18:56, 26 August 2013 (UTC) — Ryulong ( 琉竜) 09:04, 17 August 2013 (UTC)
*'''Support'''
or *'''Oppose'''
, then sign your comment with ~~~~
. Since
polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account
Wikipedia's policy on article titles.Please see the RM discussion at Talk:'—And He Built a Crooked House—'#Requested move 7 December 2023. — BarrelProof ( talk) 20:02, 7 December 2023 (UTC)
Randykitty has made repeated good-faith but incorrect edits to the formatting and punctuation of the title of the story in one section of this article. They should have come to the talk page after the first revert, per WP:BRD, but better late than never. Please read the explanatory notes on the article and on this page before making any more edits to the title in the article. – Jonesey95 ( talk) 22:55, 14 February 2024 (UTC)