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The "history" section under "Crime" is largely trivial, not to mention poorly written. For instance "Historically, Akron has witnessed several riots in the city." This sentence alone leaves the reader wondering, OK...what riots? It has nothing to back up the claim; no further info, no sources. It then jumps to the next sentence mentioning the KKK, which is not a criminal organization. The overused excuse of "similar to NYC's" is not only irrelevant here, but it isn't even true. There is no "history" section at New York City#Crime. There are a few historic instances mentioned in the main section, but if there is a history section, it is at Crime in New York City just as any relevant, encyclopedic history of crime in Akron should be at Crime in Akron, Ohio. On top of that, NYC has a well-established reputation for organized crime; Akron does not. Remember, the NYC article is not an exact model of what this page should look like; it's good to get some ideas from it, but there are going to be major differences between the two articles since NYC is significantly larger and older as a city than Akron. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 18:36, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6590104 -- Threeblur0 ( talk) 22:54, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
The short sentences about the localisms "devilstrip" and "Akroness" are still in the article, but need citations. The only sources I could find for Akroness are from non-reliable sources like the Urban dictionary and personal websites that use the term. The urban dictionary site says the word developed in 2004, but again there is no reliablility in the source. I'll leave it in for now, but unless it gets some reliable sources I'll have to take it out. Akroness just sounds like a made-up word like "Akronish" or "Cleveland-esque" or something like it; hardly a unique, established, notable localism. Devilstrip/Devil strip has some actual sources, but not in this article. I removed the mention of tree lawn because "tree lawn" is a regional/local term like devil strip. There is no universal or widespread term for the strip of grass between the sidewalk and the road. Even with the sources, it's borderline trivia to me. One localism? The whole spoken dialect paragraph needs some work anyway since it is almost completely unsourced and one of the sources used doesn't even mention Akron; it mentions Cleveland once. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 20:43, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
This was somewhat discussed about a year ago above in Talk:Akron, Ohio#Meth capital. As I reviewed the sources and the info to better organize the section, it is still largely about Summit County rather than Akron. No source specifically stated Summit County's high meth numbers in 2008 were "due" to Akron; rather from what I can see, that was inferred from the list at http://www.justice.gov/dea/seizures/oh.pdf which lists each reported meth site by county and by city. The Beacon Journal articles from Ohio.com do not mention individual city specifics. Simply adding the sites up from the list and placing that total into the article is a form of original research. On top of that, the report uses the mailing address of the property; in other words, something being labeled as "Akron" doesn't mean it is inside the Akron city limits. I saw a few that I know are in neighboring Springfield Township, which largely uses an Akron ZIP code. The same was true for several nearby cities which have a ZIP code that extends far beyond the actual city limits like Ravenna. Even the recommendations made weren't from Akron City Council; they were from Summit County Council. This is significant and notable info; however, I think as I stated a year ago, this would be more appropriate in the Summit County article than here unless some sources can be found that this was specifically an Akron problem dealt with by Akron instead of the county. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 21:20, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
<---I'm not saying it shouldn't be mentioned, but the weight of the section is too high. Not sure what the effects of meth on Akron will do (those effects would likely be the same for any city). Having a paragraph in the crime section or the Crime in Akron, Ohio article is appropriate, but as it stands now the majority of the info and sources (including the title "Meth Capital of Ohio") are directly related to the county. We have to be careful we are presenting the info as it's found in the sources. As for the comparison with other cities, you would need to find a national database to make a claim about Akron having more sites than any city in the US. Be careful about WP:SYN, which is basically using two or more valid sources to come up with a conclusion that is not actually said in any of the sources. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 13:59, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Akron dosent have a signficant or notable amount of crime to have a page for it, while atmost it's hstorical crime event are. Crime should be on main page like all other cities, and this article renamed Crime history of the city of Akron or City of Akron crime history, to match the data given.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 21:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
In 2008, the county that Akron is located in, Summit, experienced a 42% spike in the number of meth labs raided, and dismantled 68 labs compared to the 2007 total of 48. [1] The county ranked third in the nation in the amount of meth sites behind Jefferson and St. Charles counties in Missouri and is long reputed as the "Meth Capital of Ohio" [2] due mainly to Akron, which between January 2004 and August 2009 had significantly more registered sites in Ohio than any other city. [3] The authorities say the decrease of Mexican meth being imported, after the disruption of a major operation in 2005, attributed to the increase in locally made meth. [1] In 2007, Akron police received a grant to help continue its work with other agencies and jurisdictions to support them in ridding the city of meth labs. [4] The Akron Police Department coordinates with the Summit County Drug Unit and the Drug Enforcement Administration, forming the Clandestine Methamphetamine Laboratory Response Team. [5]
<---mentioning Summit County isn't "dealing" with Akron any more than a source mentioning northeast Ohio or Ohio itself is. Unless the sources about the meth use talk about Akron specifically, then they aren't about Akron; they are about the county, which includes Akron. Akron being the largest city does not mean it includes the entire county. The only sources mentioning Akron specifically either come from the State of the City address (which simply mentioned a grant to help rid the city of meth labs...not significant) and the source about the task and drug forces that Akron is a part of but in no way the leader or organizer. All the data sources are using the county as the point of reference, which is reflected in the text of the section. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 02:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
I explained my edits to the Crime section multiple times and in the edit summaries. Once again you are back to restoring sources that aren't directly related to the subject and info that is not in the sources. Saying "Akron has a major meth problem" is an opinion unless there is a source that states that because it is a POV statement. The source about Hells Angels simply states that the group sold meth in Akron; in no way does it imply that Hells Angels started some kind of meth epidemic: "OMGs such as the Hells Angels also distribute methamphetamine in the state. The Hells Angels is active in methamphetamine distribution in Akron and Cleveland.." That's all it says. Nothing about Akron having a "major" meth problem. Same is true about "mainly due to Akron". That is your own analysis (i.e. OR); there is nothing in the article that states that, so it isn't fact and shouldn't be here. The stats it cites are for Summit County anyway, again, only partially relevant here. Further, you have restored awkward wordings like "the city's county" when what I had was properly sourced and weighted. The city's meth problem has no sources that indicate it is anything nationally significant; it is one aspect of Akron's crime that stands out. Any sources I removed aren't directly related to Akron. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 06:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I see I started something with my use of the University of Akron in the header and deleting the part about graded schools starting in Akron. There are a few issues here. First, except for the first sentence, the first paragraph is all about Akron U. The topic sentence did not fit with the rest of the paragraph, as Akron U is not a primary or secondary school. I figured that since Akron U is the only university in town that I would put it in for the title. Seeing the change just made in the Kent article, and what was originally there, I would have no problem with "Higher Education". I just didn't think of that. I thought of something like "colleges and universities", which didn't make sense for Akron. Next, the part about graded schools should go with the Akron City Schools, not the university. Since it is also in the invention section, I didn't see a need for it to be in the article twice. I have more to say on the City of Invention section, but I'll do that in a different section. -- Beirne ( talk) 01:52, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
I have tagged the article for cleanup because of the numerous "citation needed" tags throughout as well as an enormous amount of duplicate information and general organization problems. Hopefully we can get some work done in correcting the problems and improving this article. The more I read it, the worse shape I see it's in. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 07:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I have removed most of the film and TV section. I used two factors in deciding whether to keep the movies or shows. One is from the In Popular Culture guidelines in Wikipedia. If nothing is learned about the city from watching the movie or show it is not worth entering. As far as I know none of the shows listed where the person was born in Akron actually conveyed any information about Akron itself. The other factor was whether I could find a good secondary source for the fact. I found a review for More than a Game, and a clear mention of My Name is Bill W. taking place in Akron so I included them. I left out All the Marbles, because I couldn't find a good secondary source. I didn't count IMDB as it is tertiary and disputed for location information. I actually do know the movie was partly filmed in Akron but need proof for here. I cut out The Instructor, which was clearly filmed in Akron and shows a lot of it, because of the same secondary source standard. The secondary sources are required partly to confirm notability, and The Instructor was a real obscure film. I didn't add The Dead Next Door for the same reason. -- Beirne ( talk) 20:15, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I removed the claims about the Menches Brothers. As much as I'd love to have Akron be the origin of these foods, I can't find any good references beyond the Menches saying that they invented waffle cones, caramel corn, and hamburgers. I don't mind if they get back in there with solid references, but I'm not finding them so far. And claims by the city of Akron don't count. -- Beirne ( talk) 23:32, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I added some info and references, also some encyclopedic data was removed without discussion got restored.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 04:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
We do not have to discuss every removal here. Everything that has been removed thus far has been trivial and/or unsourced, or duplicated elsewhere in the article. We should all be focusing on trimming the article down, not adding more info, especially trivial stuff like Akron being the 81st largest city in the US based on the 2000 census among others. Also, take the time to put any sources in the proper citation template rather than just a bare link. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 05:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Why was the data using the 2008 population removed from the infobox and the intro? It seems it was removed so the list that shows Akron as the 81st largest city in the US could be included (which uses 2000 census numbers). The 2000 census should be mentioned, but the most recent estimate should also be mentioned. Further, 81st largest is not significant. 5th largest in Ohio...OK we can include that, but 81st largest in the US is no big deal, especially since it's largely out of date now anyway. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 05:48, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Because the
Cleveland article and others, contains the 2000 estimate. 33rd dosent seem like a big deal neither but both are atleast in the top 100.--
Threeblur0 (
talk) 07:10, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
She is not mentioned in the history. She is the Ted Bundy, OJ Simpson, or John Hinckley of Akron. She should be mentioned but we shouldn't say that she's a murderer because her conviction was overturned. That doesn't mean that she didn't do it but legally we can't say that she did. JB50000 ( talk) 06:02, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
To help, feel free to add to or adjust to the list of historical events after 1915 that is not included in the themed sections.
1. Cindy George Murder Trial and overturning by the appeals court. 2.
Following Wikipedia policies on Notability and What Wikipedia is Not to prevent cruft, trivia, and non-relevant material is not an issue of article ownership. Be careful with "many many sources" as having a bunch of local sources (which most of the sources likely are) does not equal notability nor relevance to this specific article. I live some 10 miles from Akron and heard almost nothing in the local news about this trial, so it's a stretch how widespread or important it was. Simply being mentioned in the news briefly, even nationally, does not mean something was notable. That's beside the point that any notability was because of Cynthia George being wealthy and a former Mrs. Ohio, not because of Akron, so the connection is simply her being from Akron (i.e. notable natives). I've already explained my position on where the material belongs and I do agree the article needs more history from more recent times, however, this is not it. Much of it is already scattered throughout the article (such as developments at Goodyear and the other rubber companies, expansion of the U of A, downtown developments like Canal Park and the Inventors Hall of Fame, etc.) and simply needs reorganized in a more sensible format and order. User:Threeblur0 is largely responsible for the current writing and format of the history, so you can discuss with him his rationale behind his choice for organization. Again, as I have stated and Beirne will likely agree, the article is in great need of an extensive rewrite, especially the history. Looking at the guideline for US city articles and at featured city articles ( Cleveland, New York City, Ann Arbor, and Minneapolis are some examples) is always a good place to start. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 06:47, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Is this a good reference for information given on it? http://webpages.charter.net/mtruax/1904wf/WF_Myths--Food.htm#icecream Threeblur0 ( talk) 17:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
The rubber history section is a good idea but it should add to history and not become a major part of the history. JB50000 ( talk) 06:06, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
We need some ideas on where to start. For example, description of the decline in Akron but some resurgence in the past few years. Of course, Cindy George but that's been discussed so we can hold off discussion for now. What else? JB50000 ( talk) 06:12, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Very sketchy beginnings...
Akron was the first citation needed to make use of Joint Economic Development Districts (JEDDs). These agreements generally have the city provide water and sewer services to customers within the JEDD in the township and allow the city to collect income taxes from employees in that area. The townships benefit because the erosion of the tax base through annexation is prevented. Akron requested a law authorizing JEDDs so that it could set them up with its neighboring townships and end the contentious annexation battles it had been waging with them citation needed. The city now had JEDDs with all of its neighboring townships and can no longer annex new land.
This is more of a personal note but page related. Versageek and other parties, to increase productivity i resorted to sandboxes on wordpad. Most of them ive gotten far one (including one of this page) but im holding off until they're perfect* or editting gets too drastic. I will be glad to corroberate with others on my sandboxes when beng aplied.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 14:08, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
The Wikify tag at the top of the page is mainly meant for pages that have been created with little to no references, and barely has encyclopedic information. This page is encyclopedic and referenced to the point that more specfic tags can be place to help see and fix the problems not so easily spotted. Plus clean up has been since the existance of the tag, so removal would be correct.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:00, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
The soapbox derby should be mention in the heading just like rock hall of fame (which is explained in other sections in cleveland). It is important and international enough to making the heading, which shouldnt be restricted by the article since it comes first.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:08, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
I added a referenc to ...All the marbles, which in the cast part shows give the name of a person whose character is "Akron referee", this futher proves that the film was not only located but set in Akron.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
The sentence "Akron has been accessed for film many times throughout the late 20th and early 21st century" has been put back into the article, minus the earlier inclusion of music. While Akron does show up as the filming location for some movies in IMDB almost none of them are notable, and Akron is a setting in even fewer films. Characters being born in the city in the story does not count there either. That's why the section naming the films got reduced to two, although All the Marbles could come back with a good reference. -- Beirne ( talk) 14:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Trust me, many more movies were filmed or set in Akron, i also found music, im making sure i dont leave anything out this time around.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Please stop removing the cleanup tag. This is placed here to let readers and other editors know the article still has issues. Cleanup includes questionable facts and general writing styles as well as general organization, all of which are still problems here. In other words, the article still needs a lot of work. These issues have not been comepletely addressed, which is why the tag was placed there. An editor simply not liking it is not reason to remove it, and saying "addressed in talk" is not a suitable reason either especially since no discussion was made about the tag at all. Tags like that are to help the article, which this article still needs. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 17:09, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
The fact that she doesn't have an article yet should be the first clue that she shouldn't be listed in the Notable residents section. Listing her at List of people from Akron, Ohio would be appropriate with her notability connected to FALN and the FBI most wanted list, but in the Notable residents section here, because it is a summary of a much larger list, the idea is to highlight the most notable of the notable residents. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 18:23, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
This is along the lines of what User:Versageek mentioned in the AN/I: "an encyclopedia isn't intended to be a collection of every single thing that may be related to a subject. It's suppose to be something that one can read for a quick overview of important facts about a subject, a starting point for research.." -- JonRidinger ( talk) 18:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
I've been going through references, seeing which ones are reliable and which ones support the statements they are supposed to support. I'm surprised at how many are failing. I went through and got the easy ones first, but then I look further and found ones that are supposed to support obvious facts don't. By now I suspect just about every reference. They aren't all bad, of course, but there is little reason to assume that any of them are correct. I suggest that as anyone edits the document that they verify the references they come across, and if anyone is adding material they should use reliable sources. -- Beirne ( talk) 05:25, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Run down is an opinion, i also think all of Kent that isnt primarily surrounding the university is run down, also some parts on campus. Also "likely" isnt a wikipedic term Jonri, and "soon" put with it definitly is not.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 18:40, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
The article says: "The Buchtelite, printed by the University of Akron, is also distributed throughout the city." Is this true? I've never seen it anywhere except around Akron U. -- Beirne ( talk) 05:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Jonri, I would like to warn you and frequent editors of the that reverts of this page has already pass three and the day is barely half over. Also Run down is an opinion, i also think all of Kent that isnt primarily surrounding the university is run down, also some parts on campus. Also "likely" isnt a wikipedic term Jonri, and "soon" put with it definitly is not.
Plus since the page i changing alot i will put the sandbox form by the end of the day.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 19:18, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
I am not sure the Blue Santa source is totally reliable, but for now I think it's OK. I'd rather see something a little more neutral than the museum that benefits from the history. One problem for sure is this statement: "In the 1980s there were gentlemen on the other side of Akron looking for new uses for rubber." It jumps from the 1890s to the 1980s and then back to "By 1929 there were over 130 Akron area companies making and selling all types and styles of inexpensive toys to children all over the world." I'm going to guess "1980s" is a typo, possibly for 1890s but there's no way to know for sure. It's definitely not 1980s since most of the rubber industry was long gone by the 1980s. I took out the years and just put "later" since we don't have an exact date. I also replaced "invented" because it's a bit strong since Dyke didn't invent the marble, he simply was the first to mass produced them. The source doesn't specify that he invented the mass production process for marbles either. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 03:56, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I removed several items, mostly from the beginning of the culture section because they really don't do anything to describe the culture of Akron. According to the guidelines from WP:USCITY, the culture section should: "include a description of the cultural aspects of the city, such as points of interest, museums, parks, mentions of the city in the popular entertainment, etc. Try to minimize the use of peacock terms in this section." For instance, mentioning David McLean isn't part of Akron's culture. He is a notable native. The same is true with LeBron James. Any mention of LeBron James should be in the Notable natives section as I would venture to say he is currently the most well-known Akronite and is a product of Akron culture. In looking at the typical featured articles used as examples, New York City and Cleveland, NYC has a little bit about things that influenced the greater American culture, but all are notable with their own wikipages; they are actual cultural movements (not individual people) that spread across the country from New York. The Cleveland article is subdivided into the various cultural destinations in the city. Simply mentioning famous people who were part of American pop culture doesn't help the reader understand anything more about the culture of Akron. Even the mention of Highland Square was random, along with the fragment about Akron hosting some of the 2014 Gay Games (like the two are related somehow). We always have to look at the info either already there or that we are considering adding and ask ourselves if it is helpful in understanding the subject better or is it just there for promotional reasons or plain boosterism? I also made some grammatical corrections, such as "all-year round" which should simply be "year-round". -- JonRidinger ( talk) 22:33, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
<----I think Threeblur meant there was mention of him being from Akron on the Wikipedia article about him and that mention had a source. Even if it does, it still shouldn't be in the Culture section and really he should only be listed at List of people from Akron, Ohio if he isn't already. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 04:28, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Also, regarding you (Threeblur0) "proving" things should stay, that is rare indeed, though I can't remember or find a specific example of you actually proving (i.e. with valid examples and citing Wikipedia policy) something should stay that Beirne or I feel shouldn't be here. Most times we just focus on something else for awhile or we try to work with you because it's not worth an edit war. And remember, the burden of proof is on the editor who wants info to stay, not on the editor who wants it removed (see WP:BOP). Beirne and I are significantly involved with and edit more articles than just this one, so inactivity on our part should never be interpreted as you "proving" anything. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 05:09, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Keep in mind in removing the notice to not add any more names to the Notable natives section that the Kent article is not a good comparison. Kent's article is not only not a featured article (far from it), but it does not yet have a separate list of notable natives; in other words, the Notable natives section there is everyone that we know of from Kent, where Akron's and Toledo's (and other larger cities) have sections that summarize the most important natives and direct readers to the larger associated list, in this case List of people from Akron, Ohio. I say keep the section header because the list is mature and doesn't need any more. Don't use that as an excuse to expand the list further. Of all the sections in the article with issues, this is one of the few (if not the only) that doesn't have problems and is actually the way it should be. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 00:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I agree to that only if we stop at reasonable number (since there is no rules setting a limmit i know of) 20 names. Plus the list need redoing to point out the most impornant and influential people of Akron and cover more catagories of profession like in other articles.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 00:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
[6] the link which is on the pages says "Akron graded school system was imitated by other populous Ohio cities such as Massillon and in many other states as well." so would it be correct to say it was used across the United States? [6]-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 07:06, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Was removed without discussion. Popular culture include entertainment and media, data in the section covered those items.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 18:52, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Was removeed without discussion. They were residents of Akron and data was in the right section and referenced. Also the first sentence, which is true, keeps being removed without reason, and is similar to the featured article Cleveland. Also im sure cereal, oatmeal, etc. is eaten worldwide on regular bases. -- Threeblur0 ( talk) 19:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
<---the entire first sentence that you keep re-adding isn't needed and isn't accurate or sourced. And yes, stating "Please keep unvandalizing data, atleast until discussion is over" in an edit summary sure sounds like you're accusing someone of vandalizing. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 21:04, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
<---We've gone over what was meant by using other articles as examples. *Never* did I say to follow another article in every way. I gave you examples of featured articles that can give you and any editor a general idea of what goes into and how to organize an article to make it good according to Wikipedia standards. Other editors and myself have stated multiple times that something being in a featured article does not mean it should necessarily be duplicated here. What you have done in many cases is cut and pasted material from other featured articles and then changed a few words to make it fit Akron. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 00:07, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
The phrase "aka Oatmeal King" was not in any sources, even at his own article, which is all of one or two lines with two dead links for sources. Besides that it really isn't needed for this article anyway, plus we should avoid using common abbreviations like "aka". Second, the OhioHistory source about him does not state he created the first breakfast cereal. It simply states he created a way to use oats more for human consumption, so oatmeal is the obvious invention. The breakfast cereal article isn't much help as it lacks sources of its own, though it does not support the claim of him creating the first breakfast cereal either. I think Quaker Oats as a company had more of an impact on American cuisine than anyone listed thus far, though it's no longer in Akron, of course. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 22:46, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
[7] This has a copyright at the bottom and dosent say it is copied from anywhere, looks original, reliable?-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:38, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
[8] Here is another, also im just asking for a clear "yes" or "no" when responding on references. (not to be rude)-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) [9] Think i found better polymer reference.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:53, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
In looking over the guidelines at WP:USCITY I found something that could help in the organization of the Cuisine section. In the Economy section, it says: "Presumably 95% of the people in the city work for a living, what do they do? What industries/sectors can support so many people? Who are the biggest employers? How did the economy take form and change over time?" This would be an appropriate place to briefly mention the manufacturing past of Quaker Oats (among the many other manufacturing jobs of Akron) rather than in the Cuisine section. The Quaker Oats article would also be more appropriate than having a merger discription of the company in the Cuisine section. Right now, the way it opens mentioning Ferdinand Schumacher and the way his companies merged together really isn't relevent to what foods are most popular in Akron. Again, the main focus on the Cuisine section based on how it is in larger articles is to highlight the local cuisine (present-day); basically what are the most popular foods and some of the most notable restaurants. Simply listing some of the restaurants, as we have seen, opens it up for other editors to add their personal favorites and says nothing about local cuisine (like Tangier for instance...no one outside of Akron knows what Tangier even is or what kind of food it sells). Even in the aforementioned Cleveland article, the two notable chefs are simply mentioned as having contributed to the American culinary scene, but no details are given about them since they have their own Wikipedia articles. The focus is on the city rather than the notable residents. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 18:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the link to the List of Akron baseball people twice because the list is for "people who have been associated with the Akron Aeros professional baseball team." When we use "see also" or main, it should be to something that is directly related to the section topic, like if it were pointing to the main article "Sports in Akron, Ohio". Since we wouldn't include a list of former Aeros players and managers in this article to begin with, why should we point readers to the list? If they want to learn more about the Aeros, there are articles written about the Aeros and there are links in the body of the section. The list of people associated with the Aeros doesn't really tell us anything about Akron; it tells us about the Aeros, who happen to be based in Akron. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 19:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
The "history" section under "Crime" is largely trivial, not to mention poorly written. For instance "Historically, Akron has witnessed several riots in the city." This sentence alone leaves the reader wondering, OK...what riots? It has nothing to back up the claim; no further info, no sources. It then jumps to the next sentence mentioning the KKK, which is not a criminal organization. The overused excuse of "similar to NYC's" is not only irrelevant here, but it isn't even true. There is no "history" section at New York City#Crime. There are a few historic instances mentioned in the main section, but if there is a history section, it is at Crime in New York City just as any relevant, encyclopedic history of crime in Akron should be at Crime in Akron, Ohio. On top of that, NYC has a well-established reputation for organized crime; Akron does not. Remember, the NYC article is not an exact model of what this page should look like; it's good to get some ideas from it, but there are going to be major differences between the two articles since NYC is significantly larger and older as a city than Akron. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 18:36, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
http://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/6590104 -- Threeblur0 ( talk) 22:54, 2 January 2010 (UTC)
The short sentences about the localisms "devilstrip" and "Akroness" are still in the article, but need citations. The only sources I could find for Akroness are from non-reliable sources like the Urban dictionary and personal websites that use the term. The urban dictionary site says the word developed in 2004, but again there is no reliablility in the source. I'll leave it in for now, but unless it gets some reliable sources I'll have to take it out. Akroness just sounds like a made-up word like "Akronish" or "Cleveland-esque" or something like it; hardly a unique, established, notable localism. Devilstrip/Devil strip has some actual sources, but not in this article. I removed the mention of tree lawn because "tree lawn" is a regional/local term like devil strip. There is no universal or widespread term for the strip of grass between the sidewalk and the road. Even with the sources, it's borderline trivia to me. One localism? The whole spoken dialect paragraph needs some work anyway since it is almost completely unsourced and one of the sources used doesn't even mention Akron; it mentions Cleveland once. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 20:43, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
This was somewhat discussed about a year ago above in Talk:Akron, Ohio#Meth capital. As I reviewed the sources and the info to better organize the section, it is still largely about Summit County rather than Akron. No source specifically stated Summit County's high meth numbers in 2008 were "due" to Akron; rather from what I can see, that was inferred from the list at http://www.justice.gov/dea/seizures/oh.pdf which lists each reported meth site by county and by city. The Beacon Journal articles from Ohio.com do not mention individual city specifics. Simply adding the sites up from the list and placing that total into the article is a form of original research. On top of that, the report uses the mailing address of the property; in other words, something being labeled as "Akron" doesn't mean it is inside the Akron city limits. I saw a few that I know are in neighboring Springfield Township, which largely uses an Akron ZIP code. The same was true for several nearby cities which have a ZIP code that extends far beyond the actual city limits like Ravenna. Even the recommendations made weren't from Akron City Council; they were from Summit County Council. This is significant and notable info; however, I think as I stated a year ago, this would be more appropriate in the Summit County article than here unless some sources can be found that this was specifically an Akron problem dealt with by Akron instead of the county. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 21:20, 5 January 2010 (UTC)
<---I'm not saying it shouldn't be mentioned, but the weight of the section is too high. Not sure what the effects of meth on Akron will do (those effects would likely be the same for any city). Having a paragraph in the crime section or the Crime in Akron, Ohio article is appropriate, but as it stands now the majority of the info and sources (including the title "Meth Capital of Ohio") are directly related to the county. We have to be careful we are presenting the info as it's found in the sources. As for the comparison with other cities, you would need to find a national database to make a claim about Akron having more sites than any city in the US. Be careful about WP:SYN, which is basically using two or more valid sources to come up with a conclusion that is not actually said in any of the sources. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 13:59, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
Akron dosent have a signficant or notable amount of crime to have a page for it, while atmost it's hstorical crime event are. Crime should be on main page like all other cities, and this article renamed Crime history of the city of Akron or City of Akron crime history, to match the data given.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 21:52, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
In 2008, the county that Akron is located in, Summit, experienced a 42% spike in the number of meth labs raided, and dismantled 68 labs compared to the 2007 total of 48. [1] The county ranked third in the nation in the amount of meth sites behind Jefferson and St. Charles counties in Missouri and is long reputed as the "Meth Capital of Ohio" [2] due mainly to Akron, which between January 2004 and August 2009 had significantly more registered sites in Ohio than any other city. [3] The authorities say the decrease of Mexican meth being imported, after the disruption of a major operation in 2005, attributed to the increase in locally made meth. [1] In 2007, Akron police received a grant to help continue its work with other agencies and jurisdictions to support them in ridding the city of meth labs. [4] The Akron Police Department coordinates with the Summit County Drug Unit and the Drug Enforcement Administration, forming the Clandestine Methamphetamine Laboratory Response Team. [5]
<---mentioning Summit County isn't "dealing" with Akron any more than a source mentioning northeast Ohio or Ohio itself is. Unless the sources about the meth use talk about Akron specifically, then they aren't about Akron; they are about the county, which includes Akron. Akron being the largest city does not mean it includes the entire county. The only sources mentioning Akron specifically either come from the State of the City address (which simply mentioned a grant to help rid the city of meth labs...not significant) and the source about the task and drug forces that Akron is a part of but in no way the leader or organizer. All the data sources are using the county as the point of reference, which is reflected in the text of the section. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 02:07, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
I explained my edits to the Crime section multiple times and in the edit summaries. Once again you are back to restoring sources that aren't directly related to the subject and info that is not in the sources. Saying "Akron has a major meth problem" is an opinion unless there is a source that states that because it is a POV statement. The source about Hells Angels simply states that the group sold meth in Akron; in no way does it imply that Hells Angels started some kind of meth epidemic: "OMGs such as the Hells Angels also distribute methamphetamine in the state. The Hells Angels is active in methamphetamine distribution in Akron and Cleveland.." That's all it says. Nothing about Akron having a "major" meth problem. Same is true about "mainly due to Akron". That is your own analysis (i.e. OR); there is nothing in the article that states that, so it isn't fact and shouldn't be here. The stats it cites are for Summit County anyway, again, only partially relevant here. Further, you have restored awkward wordings like "the city's county" when what I had was properly sourced and weighted. The city's meth problem has no sources that indicate it is anything nationally significant; it is one aspect of Akron's crime that stands out. Any sources I removed aren't directly related to Akron. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 06:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC)
I see I started something with my use of the University of Akron in the header and deleting the part about graded schools starting in Akron. There are a few issues here. First, except for the first sentence, the first paragraph is all about Akron U. The topic sentence did not fit with the rest of the paragraph, as Akron U is not a primary or secondary school. I figured that since Akron U is the only university in town that I would put it in for the title. Seeing the change just made in the Kent article, and what was originally there, I would have no problem with "Higher Education". I just didn't think of that. I thought of something like "colleges and universities", which didn't make sense for Akron. Next, the part about graded schools should go with the Akron City Schools, not the university. Since it is also in the invention section, I didn't see a need for it to be in the article twice. I have more to say on the City of Invention section, but I'll do that in a different section. -- Beirne ( talk) 01:52, 7 January 2010 (UTC)
I have tagged the article for cleanup because of the numerous "citation needed" tags throughout as well as an enormous amount of duplicate information and general organization problems. Hopefully we can get some work done in correcting the problems and improving this article. The more I read it, the worse shape I see it's in. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 07:22, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I have removed most of the film and TV section. I used two factors in deciding whether to keep the movies or shows. One is from the In Popular Culture guidelines in Wikipedia. If nothing is learned about the city from watching the movie or show it is not worth entering. As far as I know none of the shows listed where the person was born in Akron actually conveyed any information about Akron itself. The other factor was whether I could find a good secondary source for the fact. I found a review for More than a Game, and a clear mention of My Name is Bill W. taking place in Akron so I included them. I left out All the Marbles, because I couldn't find a good secondary source. I didn't count IMDB as it is tertiary and disputed for location information. I actually do know the movie was partly filmed in Akron but need proof for here. I cut out The Instructor, which was clearly filmed in Akron and shows a lot of it, because of the same secondary source standard. The secondary sources are required partly to confirm notability, and The Instructor was a real obscure film. I didn't add The Dead Next Door for the same reason. -- Beirne ( talk) 20:15, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I removed the claims about the Menches Brothers. As much as I'd love to have Akron be the origin of these foods, I can't find any good references beyond the Menches saying that they invented waffle cones, caramel corn, and hamburgers. I don't mind if they get back in there with solid references, but I'm not finding them so far. And claims by the city of Akron don't count. -- Beirne ( talk) 23:32, 9 January 2010 (UTC)
I added some info and references, also some encyclopedic data was removed without discussion got restored.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 04:40, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
We do not have to discuss every removal here. Everything that has been removed thus far has been trivial and/or unsourced, or duplicated elsewhere in the article. We should all be focusing on trimming the article down, not adding more info, especially trivial stuff like Akron being the 81st largest city in the US based on the 2000 census among others. Also, take the time to put any sources in the proper citation template rather than just a bare link. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 05:41, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Why was the data using the 2008 population removed from the infobox and the intro? It seems it was removed so the list that shows Akron as the 81st largest city in the US could be included (which uses 2000 census numbers). The 2000 census should be mentioned, but the most recent estimate should also be mentioned. Further, 81st largest is not significant. 5th largest in Ohio...OK we can include that, but 81st largest in the US is no big deal, especially since it's largely out of date now anyway. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 05:48, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
Because the
Cleveland article and others, contains the 2000 estimate. 33rd dosent seem like a big deal neither but both are atleast in the top 100.--
Threeblur0 (
talk) 07:10, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
She is not mentioned in the history. She is the Ted Bundy, OJ Simpson, or John Hinckley of Akron. She should be mentioned but we shouldn't say that she's a murderer because her conviction was overturned. That doesn't mean that she didn't do it but legally we can't say that she did. JB50000 ( talk) 06:02, 11 January 2010 (UTC)
To help, feel free to add to or adjust to the list of historical events after 1915 that is not included in the themed sections.
1. Cindy George Murder Trial and overturning by the appeals court. 2.
Following Wikipedia policies on Notability and What Wikipedia is Not to prevent cruft, trivia, and non-relevant material is not an issue of article ownership. Be careful with "many many sources" as having a bunch of local sources (which most of the sources likely are) does not equal notability nor relevance to this specific article. I live some 10 miles from Akron and heard almost nothing in the local news about this trial, so it's a stretch how widespread or important it was. Simply being mentioned in the news briefly, even nationally, does not mean something was notable. That's beside the point that any notability was because of Cynthia George being wealthy and a former Mrs. Ohio, not because of Akron, so the connection is simply her being from Akron (i.e. notable natives). I've already explained my position on where the material belongs and I do agree the article needs more history from more recent times, however, this is not it. Much of it is already scattered throughout the article (such as developments at Goodyear and the other rubber companies, expansion of the U of A, downtown developments like Canal Park and the Inventors Hall of Fame, etc.) and simply needs reorganized in a more sensible format and order. User:Threeblur0 is largely responsible for the current writing and format of the history, so you can discuss with him his rationale behind his choice for organization. Again, as I have stated and Beirne will likely agree, the article is in great need of an extensive rewrite, especially the history. Looking at the guideline for US city articles and at featured city articles ( Cleveland, New York City, Ann Arbor, and Minneapolis are some examples) is always a good place to start. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 06:47, 15 January 2010 (UTC)
Is this a good reference for information given on it? http://webpages.charter.net/mtruax/1904wf/WF_Myths--Food.htm#icecream Threeblur0 ( talk) 17:09, 12 January 2010 (UTC)
The rubber history section is a good idea but it should add to history and not become a major part of the history. JB50000 ( talk) 06:06, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
We need some ideas on where to start. For example, description of the decline in Akron but some resurgence in the past few years. Of course, Cindy George but that's been discussed so we can hold off discussion for now. What else? JB50000 ( talk) 06:12, 16 January 2010 (UTC)
Very sketchy beginnings...
Akron was the first citation needed to make use of Joint Economic Development Districts (JEDDs). These agreements generally have the city provide water and sewer services to customers within the JEDD in the township and allow the city to collect income taxes from employees in that area. The townships benefit because the erosion of the tax base through annexation is prevented. Akron requested a law authorizing JEDDs so that it could set them up with its neighboring townships and end the contentious annexation battles it had been waging with them citation needed. The city now had JEDDs with all of its neighboring townships and can no longer annex new land.
This is more of a personal note but page related. Versageek and other parties, to increase productivity i resorted to sandboxes on wordpad. Most of them ive gotten far one (including one of this page) but im holding off until they're perfect* or editting gets too drastic. I will be glad to corroberate with others on my sandboxes when beng aplied.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 14:08, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
The Wikify tag at the top of the page is mainly meant for pages that have been created with little to no references, and barely has encyclopedic information. This page is encyclopedic and referenced to the point that more specfic tags can be place to help see and fix the problems not so easily spotted. Plus clean up has been since the existance of the tag, so removal would be correct.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:00, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
The soapbox derby should be mention in the heading just like rock hall of fame (which is explained in other sections in cleveland). It is important and international enough to making the heading, which shouldnt be restricted by the article since it comes first.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:08, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
I added a referenc to ...All the marbles, which in the cast part shows give the name of a person whose character is "Akron referee", this futher proves that the film was not only located but set in Akron.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
The sentence "Akron has been accessed for film many times throughout the late 20th and early 21st century" has been put back into the article, minus the earlier inclusion of music. While Akron does show up as the filming location for some movies in IMDB almost none of them are notable, and Akron is a setting in even fewer films. Characters being born in the city in the story does not count there either. That's why the section naming the films got reduced to two, although All the Marbles could come back with a good reference. -- Beirne ( talk) 14:46, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Trust me, many more movies were filmed or set in Akron, i also found music, im making sure i dont leave anything out this time around.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:02, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
Please stop removing the cleanup tag. This is placed here to let readers and other editors know the article still has issues. Cleanup includes questionable facts and general writing styles as well as general organization, all of which are still problems here. In other words, the article still needs a lot of work. These issues have not been comepletely addressed, which is why the tag was placed there. An editor simply not liking it is not reason to remove it, and saying "addressed in talk" is not a suitable reason either especially since no discussion was made about the tag at all. Tags like that are to help the article, which this article still needs. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 17:09, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
The fact that she doesn't have an article yet should be the first clue that she shouldn't be listed in the Notable residents section. Listing her at List of people from Akron, Ohio would be appropriate with her notability connected to FALN and the FBI most wanted list, but in the Notable residents section here, because it is a summary of a much larger list, the idea is to highlight the most notable of the notable residents. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 18:23, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
This is along the lines of what User:Versageek mentioned in the AN/I: "an encyclopedia isn't intended to be a collection of every single thing that may be related to a subject. It's suppose to be something that one can read for a quick overview of important facts about a subject, a starting point for research.." -- JonRidinger ( talk) 18:31, 18 January 2010 (UTC)
I've been going through references, seeing which ones are reliable and which ones support the statements they are supposed to support. I'm surprised at how many are failing. I went through and got the easy ones first, but then I look further and found ones that are supposed to support obvious facts don't. By now I suspect just about every reference. They aren't all bad, of course, but there is little reason to assume that any of them are correct. I suggest that as anyone edits the document that they verify the references they come across, and if anyone is adding material they should use reliable sources. -- Beirne ( talk) 05:25, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Run down is an opinion, i also think all of Kent that isnt primarily surrounding the university is run down, also some parts on campus. Also "likely" isnt a wikipedic term Jonri, and "soon" put with it definitly is not.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 18:40, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
The article says: "The Buchtelite, printed by the University of Akron, is also distributed throughout the city." Is this true? I've never seen it anywhere except around Akron U. -- Beirne ( talk) 05:42, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
Jonri, I would like to warn you and frequent editors of the that reverts of this page has already pass three and the day is barely half over. Also Run down is an opinion, i also think all of Kent that isnt primarily surrounding the university is run down, also some parts on campus. Also "likely" isnt a wikipedic term Jonri, and "soon" put with it definitly is not.
Plus since the page i changing alot i will put the sandbox form by the end of the day.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 19:18, 19 January 2010 (UTC)
I am not sure the Blue Santa source is totally reliable, but for now I think it's OK. I'd rather see something a little more neutral than the museum that benefits from the history. One problem for sure is this statement: "In the 1980s there were gentlemen on the other side of Akron looking for new uses for rubber." It jumps from the 1890s to the 1980s and then back to "By 1929 there were over 130 Akron area companies making and selling all types and styles of inexpensive toys to children all over the world." I'm going to guess "1980s" is a typo, possibly for 1890s but there's no way to know for sure. It's definitely not 1980s since most of the rubber industry was long gone by the 1980s. I took out the years and just put "later" since we don't have an exact date. I also replaced "invented" because it's a bit strong since Dyke didn't invent the marble, he simply was the first to mass produced them. The source doesn't specify that he invented the mass production process for marbles either. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 03:56, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
I removed several items, mostly from the beginning of the culture section because they really don't do anything to describe the culture of Akron. According to the guidelines from WP:USCITY, the culture section should: "include a description of the cultural aspects of the city, such as points of interest, museums, parks, mentions of the city in the popular entertainment, etc. Try to minimize the use of peacock terms in this section." For instance, mentioning David McLean isn't part of Akron's culture. He is a notable native. The same is true with LeBron James. Any mention of LeBron James should be in the Notable natives section as I would venture to say he is currently the most well-known Akronite and is a product of Akron culture. In looking at the typical featured articles used as examples, New York City and Cleveland, NYC has a little bit about things that influenced the greater American culture, but all are notable with their own wikipages; they are actual cultural movements (not individual people) that spread across the country from New York. The Cleveland article is subdivided into the various cultural destinations in the city. Simply mentioning famous people who were part of American pop culture doesn't help the reader understand anything more about the culture of Akron. Even the mention of Highland Square was random, along with the fragment about Akron hosting some of the 2014 Gay Games (like the two are related somehow). We always have to look at the info either already there or that we are considering adding and ask ourselves if it is helpful in understanding the subject better or is it just there for promotional reasons or plain boosterism? I also made some grammatical corrections, such as "all-year round" which should simply be "year-round". -- JonRidinger ( talk) 22:33, 20 January 2010 (UTC)
<----I think Threeblur meant there was mention of him being from Akron on the Wikipedia article about him and that mention had a source. Even if it does, it still shouldn't be in the Culture section and really he should only be listed at List of people from Akron, Ohio if he isn't already. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 04:28, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Also, regarding you (Threeblur0) "proving" things should stay, that is rare indeed, though I can't remember or find a specific example of you actually proving (i.e. with valid examples and citing Wikipedia policy) something should stay that Beirne or I feel shouldn't be here. Most times we just focus on something else for awhile or we try to work with you because it's not worth an edit war. And remember, the burden of proof is on the editor who wants info to stay, not on the editor who wants it removed (see WP:BOP). Beirne and I are significantly involved with and edit more articles than just this one, so inactivity on our part should never be interpreted as you "proving" anything. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 05:09, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Keep in mind in removing the notice to not add any more names to the Notable natives section that the Kent article is not a good comparison. Kent's article is not only not a featured article (far from it), but it does not yet have a separate list of notable natives; in other words, the Notable natives section there is everyone that we know of from Kent, where Akron's and Toledo's (and other larger cities) have sections that summarize the most important natives and direct readers to the larger associated list, in this case List of people from Akron, Ohio. I say keep the section header because the list is mature and doesn't need any more. Don't use that as an excuse to expand the list further. Of all the sections in the article with issues, this is one of the few (if not the only) that doesn't have problems and is actually the way it should be. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 00:35, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
I agree to that only if we stop at reasonable number (since there is no rules setting a limmit i know of) 20 names. Plus the list need redoing to point out the most impornant and influential people of Akron and cover more catagories of profession like in other articles.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 00:42, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
[6] the link which is on the pages says "Akron graded school system was imitated by other populous Ohio cities such as Massillon and in many other states as well." so would it be correct to say it was used across the United States? [6]-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 07:06, 21 January 2010 (UTC)
Was removed without discussion. Popular culture include entertainment and media, data in the section covered those items.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 18:52, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
Was removeed without discussion. They were residents of Akron and data was in the right section and referenced. Also the first sentence, which is true, keeps being removed without reason, and is similar to the featured article Cleveland. Also im sure cereal, oatmeal, etc. is eaten worldwide on regular bases. -- Threeblur0 ( talk) 19:00, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
<---the entire first sentence that you keep re-adding isn't needed and isn't accurate or sourced. And yes, stating "Please keep unvandalizing data, atleast until discussion is over" in an edit summary sure sounds like you're accusing someone of vandalizing. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 21:04, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
<---We've gone over what was meant by using other articles as examples. *Never* did I say to follow another article in every way. I gave you examples of featured articles that can give you and any editor a general idea of what goes into and how to organize an article to make it good according to Wikipedia standards. Other editors and myself have stated multiple times that something being in a featured article does not mean it should necessarily be duplicated here. What you have done in many cases is cut and pasted material from other featured articles and then changed a few words to make it fit Akron. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 00:07, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
The phrase "aka Oatmeal King" was not in any sources, even at his own article, which is all of one or two lines with two dead links for sources. Besides that it really isn't needed for this article anyway, plus we should avoid using common abbreviations like "aka". Second, the OhioHistory source about him does not state he created the first breakfast cereal. It simply states he created a way to use oats more for human consumption, so oatmeal is the obvious invention. The breakfast cereal article isn't much help as it lacks sources of its own, though it does not support the claim of him creating the first breakfast cereal either. I think Quaker Oats as a company had more of an impact on American cuisine than anyone listed thus far, though it's no longer in Akron, of course. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 22:46, 23 January 2010 (UTC)
[7] This has a copyright at the bottom and dosent say it is copied from anywhere, looks original, reliable?-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:38, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
[8] Here is another, also im just asking for a clear "yes" or "no" when responding on references. (not to be rude)-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:47, 24 January 2010 (UTC) [9] Think i found better polymer reference.-- Threeblur0 ( talk) 15:53, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
In looking over the guidelines at WP:USCITY I found something that could help in the organization of the Cuisine section. In the Economy section, it says: "Presumably 95% of the people in the city work for a living, what do they do? What industries/sectors can support so many people? Who are the biggest employers? How did the economy take form and change over time?" This would be an appropriate place to briefly mention the manufacturing past of Quaker Oats (among the many other manufacturing jobs of Akron) rather than in the Cuisine section. The Quaker Oats article would also be more appropriate than having a merger discription of the company in the Cuisine section. Right now, the way it opens mentioning Ferdinand Schumacher and the way his companies merged together really isn't relevent to what foods are most popular in Akron. Again, the main focus on the Cuisine section based on how it is in larger articles is to highlight the local cuisine (present-day); basically what are the most popular foods and some of the most notable restaurants. Simply listing some of the restaurants, as we have seen, opens it up for other editors to add their personal favorites and says nothing about local cuisine (like Tangier for instance...no one outside of Akron knows what Tangier even is or what kind of food it sells). Even in the aforementioned Cleveland article, the two notable chefs are simply mentioned as having contributed to the American culinary scene, but no details are given about them since they have their own Wikipedia articles. The focus is on the city rather than the notable residents. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 18:56, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
I have removed the link to the List of Akron baseball people twice because the list is for "people who have been associated with the Akron Aeros professional baseball team." When we use "see also" or main, it should be to something that is directly related to the section topic, like if it were pointing to the main article "Sports in Akron, Ohio". Since we wouldn't include a list of former Aeros players and managers in this article to begin with, why should we point readers to the list? If they want to learn more about the Aeros, there are articles written about the Aeros and there are links in the body of the section. The list of people associated with the Aeros doesn't really tell us anything about Akron; it tells us about the Aeros, who happen to be based in Akron. -- JonRidinger ( talk) 19:59, 31 January 2010 (UTC)