This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Not _quite_ that long ago, when I was a kid, I recall reading that Ainu woman had beards. Any truth to that? (I've known some American woman with beards, FWIW) ;Bear 00:15, 2004 Dec 14 (UTC)
Ainu women do not grow beards (!) ( Kunchan 23:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC))
This whole section is of dubious accuracy, making sweeping statements about concepts that were debunked after, well, 1911.
Anyone want to rewrite it? —This unsigned comment was added by Nandesuka ( talk • contribs) .
The Ainu are Australoid, and in no way resemble Caucasoids. Their skin tone is NOT the tone of Caucasians, their body type does NOT resemble Caucasoids, and judging from wikipedia's own pictures on the Ainu, their facial features are very different from that of Caucasoids. Intranetusa ( talk) 04:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
The Ainus are definitely not Caucasoid. The Ainu adult male has a full head of hair, whereas Caucasoid males tend to lose significant amount of hair past the age of 25, and many are bald by the age of 50. 81.157.99.169 ( talk) 14:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, they certainly do not look East Asian on this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AinuGroup.JPG Some of these faces could be seen in any city in Europe. This really imply connection between Ainu and some peoples from the proposed Eurasiatic languages super-family. PANONIAN (talk) 02:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Reverted edits: about other possibly origins of the Ainu from June 2009 [4] There has been speculation and controversy on the Ainu could originated in late ice age times. The Ainu or "Jomon" are once thought to be related to the populations of South Asia and the East Indies, via the seafaring peoples on simple built rafts from the shores of southern Arabia (the modern-day countries of Oman and Yemen) and the Horn of Africa where the Red Sea meets the Indian Ocean. The eymotology of "Ainu" seems to appear related to the similar namesake of the mysterious "Aynu" of Ancient Egypt during the time of the Pharoahs (over 3,000 years ago) and the racial origins of Aynu remain completely unknown, but are theorized to be dark-skinned yet are of an Asian Armenoid appearance. Also a Christian fundamentalist group seek to unite the entire human race, thought the Ainu are one of the lost ten tribes of Israel and they suggested the Jomon are a subset of the Yemeni or Omani tribes, some of them have Jewish ancestry (see Yemeni Jews) and the earliest societies of Japan. On Youtube from a Japanese TV documentary series on the paranormal, one particular temple was found in the island of Shikoku (in Japanese) are thought to display thelogical symbols and cultural rites, and the statues shown faces had ethnological Middle Eastern appearance, all are characteristic of Israel in Biblical times. + 71.102.12.55 ( talk) 12:03, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
The portion that said Ainus resemble Caucasoids is quite ridiculous. The skin tone and body type do not resemble Caucasoids. And from wikipedia's own Ainu pictures, their facial features look vastly different from that of Caucasoids. Considering the fact that they resemble the proto-Australoids of South East Asia and Australia, and that their language is similar to Austronesian languages of Taiwan, I'm removing references between the Ainu and Caucasoids. Intranetusa ( talk) 04:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
It may have some interest.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/hokkaido/ainu.html
What about Caucasian origin, as the mommies of the Gobi in China North-West? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/chinamum/taklamakan.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Takima ( talk • contribs) 02:19, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
The word "Ainu" is close to the Canadian "Inu" and Quebecer "Inuit" with the same meaning of "human". Many questions without answers.
Takima ( talk) 01:26, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Whatever their origin legends, their culture does not coincide at all with the Jomon period, so the category is wrong. The Jomon period ended about 1200 years before this culture arose. Dougweller ( talk) 05:33, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
This edit [5] is a reversion of another editor's work - it's a pretty major reversion which you didn't explain and marked as minor, which it clearly isn't. My instinctive reaction was just to revert your reversion with an edit summary 'unexplained reversion', but I thought I'd ask you first why you removed the other editor's work as I may have misssed something obvious. I've given the other editor a welcome message (although he's not new, he never got one) and a message telling him about edit summaries. Dougweller ( talk) 06:03, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Do the Ainu people have a common flag? I have a poster map of the world that shows a flag labelled "Ainu". There is an image of it here: [ Map] (it's near the end of the flags section at the bottom).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.232.250.50 ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 16 September 2009
I have read somewhere that the Ainu erected poles not unlike Native American totem poles. Any know if this is correct? What was the significance of these poles? Is this worth adding to the culture section?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.232.250.50 ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 16 September 2009
I think many people do not know what the Satsumon culture is. I think it is better to explain what it exactly is. The article "The only places outside of Japan in which Y-haplogroup D is common are Tibet and the Andaman Islands in the Indian " is not specifying enough the fact that Y-haplogroup is found all through the Japanese territory. This type of chromosome is found from the local people of all the current Japanese territory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bullet train ( talk • contribs) 01:07, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Exalted Warriors, Humble Roots. This looks interesting. Komitsuki ( talk) 12:26, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
Explanation in Korean. This is from a very old South Korean documentary from KBS, a South Korean national TV station. It explains how the Korean Peninsula was once populated by a dolmen-building pre-historic people who looked like the old Ainus. A scholar reconstructed a skull founded in Jaecheon Hwangseok-ri (제천 황석리) who doesn't look today's Koreans (or Yayoi people of Japan). Anyway, I think this is worth sharing. Komitsuki ( talk) 14:42, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
Japan: Sanka, Legendary Gypsies Living in the Wild. I wonder whether Sanka people relates to modern Ainu people. Komitsuki ( talk) 17:00, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
The video is in Russian. I want to know what it is about.
1. Камчадальские айны добиваются признания - Kamchatka Ainu seek official recognition
Thanks. Axxn ( talk) 03:30, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
The wiki page includes the Y-DNA origin of Ainu but not the mtDNA study which is bias. The genetic information of Ainu is incomplete, however the study I edited provides good information on the origin mtDNA of Ainu. If you only include Y-DNA study but not the mtDNA study you might aswell remove the claim Ainu are haplogroup D2 and blame it on the genetic drift. Many people are asking what is the origin mtDNA of the Ainu, and the study I provided answers that question even though in the study it clearly says it's an hypothesis it's still far better than nothing. The genetic study I provided " Mitochondrial DNA analysis of Jomon skeletons from the Funadomari" revealed excellent information on ancient Jomon skeleton before the migrations of the Yayoi skeleton. This means there is an very high chance that the N9b and M7a were pre-jomon mtDNA contribution to modern Japanese mtDNA pool. Nobody (including me) it's saying that the study it's absolutely correct, but it fills in more information about the original Ainu mtDNA. WarriorsPride6565 ( talk (talk • contribs) 8:40, 9 march (UTC)
Wajin refers to Japanese people, in which the Ainu could be a part of. The term Wa 和;倭 was a term used by the Chinese to describe the islands of Japan and its people. There is therefore no significant ethnic or cultural meaning behind the term 倭人;和人. To refer to ethnically Japanese people, ie not Ainu or Ryukyuans the appropriate word would be "Yamato." Even the Wajin link directs to the page Yamato people. Secondly since this page is written in English, "jin" should be omitted. There is no need to say Wa-jin person/people or Jōmon-jin person/people. Since that would mean Jōmon people people. In the same way in other articles people do not say Nihon-jin people, or Zhong-ren people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.136.33.62 ( talk) 23:28, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Second paragraph in the "origins" section is dubious, POV and unsourced. There is some similar information in the following paragraphs that seems more appropriate. Any objections to removing paragraph 2 ? Niado ( talk) 17:23, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Eye-new or Eh-new? Someone in the know should put a pron. guide in at the top. 202.179.19.13 ( talk) 04:25, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't know if this source is reliable as a source, but it seems to be: http://www.bloodbook.com/world-abo.html.
Their data for blood types include Blood type: 0 A B AB Ainu: 17 32 32 18 Japanese: 30 38 22 10 . 202.179.19.13 ( talk) 04:43, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
A new study has revealed genetic links between people who inhabited northern Peru more than 1,000 years ago and the Japanese.
Japanese physical anthropologist Ken-ichi Shinoda performed DNA tests on the remains of human bodies found in the East Tomb and West Tomb in the Bosque de Pomas Historical Sanctuary in Peru, which are part of the Sican Culture Archaeological Project, funded by Japan's government.
The director of the Sican National Museum, Carlos Elera, told the El Comercio newspaper that Shinoda found that people who lived more than 1,000 years ago in what today is the Lambayeque region, about 800 kilometers north of Lima, had genetic links to the contemporaneous populations of Ecuador, Colombia, Siberia, Taiwan and to the Ainu people of northern Japan.
The studies will be continued on descendents of the Mochica culture, from the same region, who are currently working on the Sican Project and with people who live in the vicinity of the Bosque de Pomac Historical Sanctuary.
According to Peruvian archaeologist Luis Chero, "Currently, the DNA results have great value because they can be understood to show that there were people who arrived in these zones from Asia and who then converted these zones into the great culture of the New World."
The results of the studies will be presented at an exhibit on the Sican culture that will be set up for a year at the Tokyo Museum of Science and Nature.
Also to be displayed at that exhibit will be gold, silver and copper jewelry found in the tombs of the ancient Sican rulers and priests. [6]
Komitsuki ( talk) 10:04, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
It should be stated why Ainu Mongoloid look so different to East Asian Mongoloid when they both cluster genetically together and this absolutely explains it:
" Anthropologist Elsie Clews Parsons physical features of the Proto-Mongoloid were characterized as, "a straight-haired type, medium in complexion, jaw protrusion, nose-breadth, and inclining probably to round-headedness".[41] Margaret Sleeboom-Faulkner of the Department of Anthropology at the University of Sussex said Kanzō Umehara considered the Ainu and Ryukyuans to have "preserved their proto-Mongoloid traits".[42] According to Ashley Montagu, "The Mongoloid skull has proceeded further than in any other people."[43] "The Mongoloid skull, whether Chinese or Japanese, has been rather more neotenized than the Caucasoid or European."[43] "The female skull, it will be noted, is more pedomorphic in all human populations than the male skull."[43] "
--- 92.236.36.173 ( talk) 05:27, 14 February 2014 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 |
Not _quite_ that long ago, when I was a kid, I recall reading that Ainu woman had beards. Any truth to that? (I've known some American woman with beards, FWIW) ;Bear 00:15, 2004 Dec 14 (UTC)
Ainu women do not grow beards (!) ( Kunchan 23:41, 19 August 2007 (UTC))
This whole section is of dubious accuracy, making sweeping statements about concepts that were debunked after, well, 1911.
Anyone want to rewrite it? —This unsigned comment was added by Nandesuka ( talk • contribs) .
The Ainu are Australoid, and in no way resemble Caucasoids. Their skin tone is NOT the tone of Caucasians, their body type does NOT resemble Caucasoids, and judging from wikipedia's own pictures on the Ainu, their facial features are very different from that of Caucasoids. Intranetusa ( talk) 04:04, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
The Ainus are definitely not Caucasoid. The Ainu adult male has a full head of hair, whereas Caucasoid males tend to lose significant amount of hair past the age of 25, and many are bald by the age of 50. 81.157.99.169 ( talk) 14:41, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
Well, they certainly do not look East Asian on this picture: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:AinuGroup.JPG Some of these faces could be seen in any city in Europe. This really imply connection between Ainu and some peoples from the proposed Eurasiatic languages super-family. PANONIAN (talk) 02:36, 25 August 2006 (UTC)
Reverted edits: about other possibly origins of the Ainu from June 2009 [4] There has been speculation and controversy on the Ainu could originated in late ice age times. The Ainu or "Jomon" are once thought to be related to the populations of South Asia and the East Indies, via the seafaring peoples on simple built rafts from the shores of southern Arabia (the modern-day countries of Oman and Yemen) and the Horn of Africa where the Red Sea meets the Indian Ocean. The eymotology of "Ainu" seems to appear related to the similar namesake of the mysterious "Aynu" of Ancient Egypt during the time of the Pharoahs (over 3,000 years ago) and the racial origins of Aynu remain completely unknown, but are theorized to be dark-skinned yet are of an Asian Armenoid appearance. Also a Christian fundamentalist group seek to unite the entire human race, thought the Ainu are one of the lost ten tribes of Israel and they suggested the Jomon are a subset of the Yemeni or Omani tribes, some of them have Jewish ancestry (see Yemeni Jews) and the earliest societies of Japan. On Youtube from a Japanese TV documentary series on the paranormal, one particular temple was found in the island of Shikoku (in Japanese) are thought to display thelogical symbols and cultural rites, and the statues shown faces had ethnological Middle Eastern appearance, all are characteristic of Israel in Biblical times. + 71.102.12.55 ( talk) 12:03, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
The portion that said Ainus resemble Caucasoids is quite ridiculous. The skin tone and body type do not resemble Caucasoids. And from wikipedia's own Ainu pictures, their facial features look vastly different from that of Caucasoids. Considering the fact that they resemble the proto-Australoids of South East Asia and Australia, and that their language is similar to Austronesian languages of Taiwan, I'm removing references between the Ainu and Caucasoids. Intranetusa ( talk) 04:14, 8 December 2007 (UTC)
It may have some interest.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/hokkaido/ainu.html
What about Caucasian origin, as the mommies of the Gobi in China North-West? http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/chinamum/taklamakan.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Takima ( talk • contribs) 02:19, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
The word "Ainu" is close to the Canadian "Inu" and Quebecer "Inuit" with the same meaning of "human". Many questions without answers.
Takima ( talk) 01:26, 3 February 2009 (UTC)
Whatever their origin legends, their culture does not coincide at all with the Jomon period, so the category is wrong. The Jomon period ended about 1200 years before this culture arose. Dougweller ( talk) 05:33, 21 April 2009 (UTC)
This edit [5] is a reversion of another editor's work - it's a pretty major reversion which you didn't explain and marked as minor, which it clearly isn't. My instinctive reaction was just to revert your reversion with an edit summary 'unexplained reversion', but I thought I'd ask you first why you removed the other editor's work as I may have misssed something obvious. I've given the other editor a welcome message (although he's not new, he never got one) and a message telling him about edit summaries. Dougweller ( talk) 06:03, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
Do the Ainu people have a common flag? I have a poster map of the world that shows a flag labelled "Ainu". There is an image of it here: [ Map] (it's near the end of the flags section at the bottom).—Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.232.250.50 ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 16 September 2009
I have read somewhere that the Ainu erected poles not unlike Native American totem poles. Any know if this is correct? What was the significance of these poles? Is this worth adding to the culture section?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.232.250.50 ( talk • contribs) 14:57, 16 September 2009
I think many people do not know what the Satsumon culture is. I think it is better to explain what it exactly is. The article "The only places outside of Japan in which Y-haplogroup D is common are Tibet and the Andaman Islands in the Indian " is not specifying enough the fact that Y-haplogroup is found all through the Japanese territory. This type of chromosome is found from the local people of all the current Japanese territory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bullet train ( talk • contribs) 01:07, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
Exalted Warriors, Humble Roots. This looks interesting. Komitsuki ( talk) 12:26, 28 August 2011 (UTC)
Explanation in Korean. This is from a very old South Korean documentary from KBS, a South Korean national TV station. It explains how the Korean Peninsula was once populated by a dolmen-building pre-historic people who looked like the old Ainus. A scholar reconstructed a skull founded in Jaecheon Hwangseok-ri (제천 황석리) who doesn't look today's Koreans (or Yayoi people of Japan). Anyway, I think this is worth sharing. Komitsuki ( talk) 14:42, 18 September 2011 (UTC)
Japan: Sanka, Legendary Gypsies Living in the Wild. I wonder whether Sanka people relates to modern Ainu people. Komitsuki ( talk) 17:00, 19 November 2011 (UTC)
The video is in Russian. I want to know what it is about.
1. Камчадальские айны добиваются признания - Kamchatka Ainu seek official recognition
Thanks. Axxn ( talk) 03:30, 23 February 2012 (UTC)
The wiki page includes the Y-DNA origin of Ainu but not the mtDNA study which is bias. The genetic information of Ainu is incomplete, however the study I edited provides good information on the origin mtDNA of Ainu. If you only include Y-DNA study but not the mtDNA study you might aswell remove the claim Ainu are haplogroup D2 and blame it on the genetic drift. Many people are asking what is the origin mtDNA of the Ainu, and the study I provided answers that question even though in the study it clearly says it's an hypothesis it's still far better than nothing. The genetic study I provided " Mitochondrial DNA analysis of Jomon skeletons from the Funadomari" revealed excellent information on ancient Jomon skeleton before the migrations of the Yayoi skeleton. This means there is an very high chance that the N9b and M7a were pre-jomon mtDNA contribution to modern Japanese mtDNA pool. Nobody (including me) it's saying that the study it's absolutely correct, but it fills in more information about the original Ainu mtDNA. WarriorsPride6565 ( talk (talk • contribs) 8:40, 9 march (UTC)
Wajin refers to Japanese people, in which the Ainu could be a part of. The term Wa 和;倭 was a term used by the Chinese to describe the islands of Japan and its people. There is therefore no significant ethnic or cultural meaning behind the term 倭人;和人. To refer to ethnically Japanese people, ie not Ainu or Ryukyuans the appropriate word would be "Yamato." Even the Wajin link directs to the page Yamato people. Secondly since this page is written in English, "jin" should be omitted. There is no need to say Wa-jin person/people or Jōmon-jin person/people. Since that would mean Jōmon people people. In the same way in other articles people do not say Nihon-jin people, or Zhong-ren people. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.136.33.62 ( talk) 23:28, 18 July 2012 (UTC)
Second paragraph in the "origins" section is dubious, POV and unsourced. There is some similar information in the following paragraphs that seems more appropriate. Any objections to removing paragraph 2 ? Niado ( talk) 17:23, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
Eye-new or Eh-new? Someone in the know should put a pron. guide in at the top. 202.179.19.13 ( talk) 04:25, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
I don't know if this source is reliable as a source, but it seems to be: http://www.bloodbook.com/world-abo.html.
Their data for blood types include Blood type: 0 A B AB Ainu: 17 32 32 18 Japanese: 30 38 22 10 . 202.179.19.13 ( talk) 04:43, 30 October 2012 (UTC)
A new study has revealed genetic links between people who inhabited northern Peru more than 1,000 years ago and the Japanese.
Japanese physical anthropologist Ken-ichi Shinoda performed DNA tests on the remains of human bodies found in the East Tomb and West Tomb in the Bosque de Pomas Historical Sanctuary in Peru, which are part of the Sican Culture Archaeological Project, funded by Japan's government.
The director of the Sican National Museum, Carlos Elera, told the El Comercio newspaper that Shinoda found that people who lived more than 1,000 years ago in what today is the Lambayeque region, about 800 kilometers north of Lima, had genetic links to the contemporaneous populations of Ecuador, Colombia, Siberia, Taiwan and to the Ainu people of northern Japan.
The studies will be continued on descendents of the Mochica culture, from the same region, who are currently working on the Sican Project and with people who live in the vicinity of the Bosque de Pomac Historical Sanctuary.
According to Peruvian archaeologist Luis Chero, "Currently, the DNA results have great value because they can be understood to show that there were people who arrived in these zones from Asia and who then converted these zones into the great culture of the New World."
The results of the studies will be presented at an exhibit on the Sican culture that will be set up for a year at the Tokyo Museum of Science and Nature.
Also to be displayed at that exhibit will be gold, silver and copper jewelry found in the tombs of the ancient Sican rulers and priests. [6]
Komitsuki ( talk) 10:04, 12 October 2013 (UTC)
It should be stated why Ainu Mongoloid look so different to East Asian Mongoloid when they both cluster genetically together and this absolutely explains it:
" Anthropologist Elsie Clews Parsons physical features of the Proto-Mongoloid were characterized as, "a straight-haired type, medium in complexion, jaw protrusion, nose-breadth, and inclining probably to round-headedness".[41] Margaret Sleeboom-Faulkner of the Department of Anthropology at the University of Sussex said Kanzō Umehara considered the Ainu and Ryukyuans to have "preserved their proto-Mongoloid traits".[42] According to Ashley Montagu, "The Mongoloid skull has proceeded further than in any other people."[43] "The Mongoloid skull, whether Chinese or Japanese, has been rather more neotenized than the Caucasoid or European."[43] "The female skull, it will be noted, is more pedomorphic in all human populations than the male skull."[43] "
--- 92.236.36.173 ( talk) 05:27, 14 February 2014 (UTC)