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is there no mention of India's soft power in afghanistan? it exists on the 2008 Indian embassy bombing in Kabul page. Lihaas ( talk) 05:36, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Afghanistan map is wrong, u are missing a small neck that extends to the rights towards China and POK. Look carefully u will see that. âPreceding unsigned comment added by Murali83 ( talk ⢠contribs) 14:45, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
India and Afghanistan have never had any historic or traditional alliance. in fact India supported the invading soviet union in the past so honestly it has been the opposite of whats stated in the article â Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.36.65.37 ( talk) 07:32, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
The allegations do not elaborate on comments from a person or quotes (and that would be more suitable for body) and the denial should follow the same for WP:WEIGHT. -- lTopGunl ( talk) 02:03, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
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Hi all, Can we have a complete review of this page. There seems to certainly be an agenda at place here with the links, references, and language that is not neutral to the average reader. All the best â Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.199.31 ( talk) 18:56, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Recent edits ( here and here) dubiously removed content related to Abdul Ghaffar Khan and Abdul Jabbar Khan. Eminent anti-colonial leaders who are important in the history of all three countries (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan). The basis to remove them was that they relate only to Pakistan, absurdist since the content talks about shared colonial history and further of direct relations between them and India in the post-colonial period (history is not territorially bound regardless); and another basis was that Afghanistan is multi-ethnic, a weird way to vouch for obfuscation of a predominant ethnic group which was not the sole basis of the content anyhow. I have restored it per WP:STABLE and on the basis of no reasonable rationale as to its removal. Gotitbro ( talk) 21:39, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Furthermore, this has been inserted by the same editor:
On September 2021, Pakistanâs government published a 131-page dossier and a CD with audio and video recordings, exact GPS coordinates of five alleged Indian funded and managed ISIS (ISKP) terror training camps with suspected use of chemical weapons to claim that terrorist activities by ISKP inside Pakistan was being aided by the Indian intelligence. In December 2022, with regards to Indian-Afghan intelligence cooperation and activities against Pakistan, Afghanistanâs former NDS intelligence chief Rahmatullah Nabi acknowledged the claim, saying: âWe helped India against Pakistan, but India cancelled our visas after the fall of Kabul.
I don't think an elaboration of dossiers is needful when allegations have already been set out; and with ISKP nothing short of WP:HISTRS should be acceptable especially not news. The quote of Rahmatullah Nabil is also WP:NOCONTEXT as to in what aspect it was stated ("against Pakistan" is ambiguous in and of itself) and it is further sourced to an opinion piece making it even more of a no go.
Lastly, from consensus hereon this Talk page itself (see the above section " #Lead - RAW allegations/denial") allegations should be followed by denials; this is especially true if no experts have vetted them. This is what the situation was before the insertion of the text above. @ FacetsOfNonStickPans, Georgethedragonslayer, TrangaBellam, and Kautilya3: inviting past contributors for further comments on this and the above. Gotitbro ( talk) 22:18, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
First, you just repeated that I consider this to be post independence history, when I clearly said it is also pre 1947 history of the "British Indian Empire" of which NWFP was a part of. Afghanistan was not part of it. Abdul Ghaffar Khan (+the other guy) and his anti colonial struggle in this era is not relevant to Afghanistan. Because Afghanistan was a different country at that time.
Also, I never restored "sock edits" before you started to stalk me. I don't know what "raised concerns" before that.
Plus the rahmatullah Nabi quote is very relevant because it comes after "India denies this claim", and he openly accepts the claim of Indian-NDS intelligence cooperation. Content on Pakistani allegations between the relation was always there. I just expanded on it.
This whole heading can be expanded. Many relevant exists regarding BLA militants etc training there under the alleged cooperation between NDS-RAW. If you think this isn't history, then maybe just make a separate subsection. Uzek ( talk) 22:49, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
The "helped India against Pakistan" was in a tweet, not any interview. An interview was published by The Hindu where none of this stuff is there. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 14:42, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
"If the statement is not authoritative, attribute the opinion to the author in the text of the article and do not represent it as fact."
This quote is inline attributed to him per WP:RS itself. It talks in general of attributing opinions to the author "of the text", not specifically the publishing author "of the article", it is not "A FACT". It is just the opinion of the author "of the text".
"News sources often contain both factual content and opinion content. News reporting from well-established news outlets is generally considered to be reliable for statements of fact (though even the most reputable reporting sometimes contains errors). News reporting from less-established outlets is generally considered less reliable for statements of fact." WP:NEWSORG.
No published news sources exist contradicting this news to be discarded as a source. He even responded to this tweet in the article and clarified that he meant "student visas", not his own visa. With no denial of the first part of this statement. [1]. The Hindu (Indian state source) does report mostly on this, but doesn't quote his exact statement because of obvious reasons.
As a closure for my arguments above, I will simply include Oxford's primer on India-Afghanistan relations which also prominently mentions Khan:
The nationalist movement on the Afghan border, which later became known as the Frontier National Congress, was born under the leadership of the two Khan brothers, including Abdul Ghaffar Khan, also known as âFrontier Gandhiâ. During the 1937 provincial elections, the Indian National Congress emerged as the largest single party in India, and the Frontier National Congress as the largest party in the (p.109) North West Frontier Province. When India gained independence in 1947 and was partitioned to create Pakistan on its western and eastern fronts, the Durand border remained a sore point with Afghanistan, and Afghanistan objected to the recognition of Pakistan (with its implied permanent recognition of the Durand Line) at the United Nations in 1947, while retaining close ties with India. ...
Yet a more complete understanding of Indiaâs foreign policy has to take account of two leaders who unmistakably shaped the idea of both nations in the earlier part of the twentieth century, Mahatma Gandhi and Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, also known as âFrontier Gandhiâ or Fakhr-e Afghan (Pride of the Afghans), as well as the leaders elected in both countries in 2014. (p.122) ...
While Ghaffar Khan is popularly identified with the idea of Pashtunistan, the border areas straddling Afghanistan and Pakistan, his close relationship with the Indian National Congress and commitment to a secular national idea, despite being a staunch Muslim, formed historical and political bonds between independent India, these border areas, and independent Afghanistan. This historical legacy formed the basis of the Indo-Afghan relationship in the decades after independence.
Gotitbro ( talk) 15:45, 2 March 2023 (UTC)
This article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
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A fact from AfghanistanâIndia relations appeared on Wikipedia's
Main Page in the
Did you know column on 10 June 2008, and was viewed approximately 609 times (
disclaimer) (
check views). The text of the entry was as follows:
|
is there no mention of India's soft power in afghanistan? it exists on the 2008 Indian embassy bombing in Kabul page. Lihaas ( talk) 05:36, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
Afghanistan map is wrong, u are missing a small neck that extends to the rights towards China and POK. Look carefully u will see that. âPreceding unsigned comment added by Murali83 ( talk ⢠contribs) 14:45, 31 October 2009 (UTC)
India and Afghanistan have never had any historic or traditional alliance. in fact India supported the invading soviet union in the past so honestly it has been the opposite of whats stated in the article â Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.36.65.37 ( talk) 07:32, 18 December 2014 (UTC)
The allegations do not elaborate on comments from a person or quotes (and that would be more suitable for body) and the denial should follow the same for WP:WEIGHT. -- lTopGunl ( talk) 02:03, 11 January 2012 (UTC)
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File:Indian and Afghan foreign ministers in 2011.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
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File:Karzai and Singh in May 2011.jpg, has been nominated for deletion at
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Hi all, Can we have a complete review of this page. There seems to certainly be an agenda at place here with the links, references, and language that is not neutral to the average reader. All the best â Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.28.199.31 ( talk) 18:56, 8 December 2020 (UTC)
Recent edits ( here and here) dubiously removed content related to Abdul Ghaffar Khan and Abdul Jabbar Khan. Eminent anti-colonial leaders who are important in the history of all three countries (India, Pakistan, Afghanistan). The basis to remove them was that they relate only to Pakistan, absurdist since the content talks about shared colonial history and further of direct relations between them and India in the post-colonial period (history is not territorially bound regardless); and another basis was that Afghanistan is multi-ethnic, a weird way to vouch for obfuscation of a predominant ethnic group which was not the sole basis of the content anyhow. I have restored it per WP:STABLE and on the basis of no reasonable rationale as to its removal. Gotitbro ( talk) 21:39, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
Furthermore, this has been inserted by the same editor:
On September 2021, Pakistanâs government published a 131-page dossier and a CD with audio and video recordings, exact GPS coordinates of five alleged Indian funded and managed ISIS (ISKP) terror training camps with suspected use of chemical weapons to claim that terrorist activities by ISKP inside Pakistan was being aided by the Indian intelligence. In December 2022, with regards to Indian-Afghan intelligence cooperation and activities against Pakistan, Afghanistanâs former NDS intelligence chief Rahmatullah Nabi acknowledged the claim, saying: âWe helped India against Pakistan, but India cancelled our visas after the fall of Kabul.
I don't think an elaboration of dossiers is needful when allegations have already been set out; and with ISKP nothing short of WP:HISTRS should be acceptable especially not news. The quote of Rahmatullah Nabil is also WP:NOCONTEXT as to in what aspect it was stated ("against Pakistan" is ambiguous in and of itself) and it is further sourced to an opinion piece making it even more of a no go.
Lastly, from consensus hereon this Talk page itself (see the above section " #Lead - RAW allegations/denial") allegations should be followed by denials; this is especially true if no experts have vetted them. This is what the situation was before the insertion of the text above. @ FacetsOfNonStickPans, Georgethedragonslayer, TrangaBellam, and Kautilya3: inviting past contributors for further comments on this and the above. Gotitbro ( talk) 22:18, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
First, you just repeated that I consider this to be post independence history, when I clearly said it is also pre 1947 history of the "British Indian Empire" of which NWFP was a part of. Afghanistan was not part of it. Abdul Ghaffar Khan (+the other guy) and his anti colonial struggle in this era is not relevant to Afghanistan. Because Afghanistan was a different country at that time.
Also, I never restored "sock edits" before you started to stalk me. I don't know what "raised concerns" before that.
Plus the rahmatullah Nabi quote is very relevant because it comes after "India denies this claim", and he openly accepts the claim of Indian-NDS intelligence cooperation. Content on Pakistani allegations between the relation was always there. I just expanded on it.
This whole heading can be expanded. Many relevant exists regarding BLA militants etc training there under the alleged cooperation between NDS-RAW. If you think this isn't history, then maybe just make a separate subsection. Uzek ( talk) 22:49, 28 February 2023 (UTC)
The "helped India against Pakistan" was in a tweet, not any interview. An interview was published by The Hindu where none of this stuff is there. -- Kautilya3 ( talk) 14:42, 1 March 2023 (UTC)
"If the statement is not authoritative, attribute the opinion to the author in the text of the article and do not represent it as fact."
This quote is inline attributed to him per WP:RS itself. It talks in general of attributing opinions to the author "of the text", not specifically the publishing author "of the article", it is not "A FACT". It is just the opinion of the author "of the text".
"News sources often contain both factual content and opinion content. News reporting from well-established news outlets is generally considered to be reliable for statements of fact (though even the most reputable reporting sometimes contains errors). News reporting from less-established outlets is generally considered less reliable for statements of fact." WP:NEWSORG.
No published news sources exist contradicting this news to be discarded as a source. He even responded to this tweet in the article and clarified that he meant "student visas", not his own visa. With no denial of the first part of this statement. [1]. The Hindu (Indian state source) does report mostly on this, but doesn't quote his exact statement because of obvious reasons.
As a closure for my arguments above, I will simply include Oxford's primer on India-Afghanistan relations which also prominently mentions Khan:
The nationalist movement on the Afghan border, which later became known as the Frontier National Congress, was born under the leadership of the two Khan brothers, including Abdul Ghaffar Khan, also known as âFrontier Gandhiâ. During the 1937 provincial elections, the Indian National Congress emerged as the largest single party in India, and the Frontier National Congress as the largest party in the (p.109) North West Frontier Province. When India gained independence in 1947 and was partitioned to create Pakistan on its western and eastern fronts, the Durand border remained a sore point with Afghanistan, and Afghanistan objected to the recognition of Pakistan (with its implied permanent recognition of the Durand Line) at the United Nations in 1947, while retaining close ties with India. ...
Yet a more complete understanding of Indiaâs foreign policy has to take account of two leaders who unmistakably shaped the idea of both nations in the earlier part of the twentieth century, Mahatma Gandhi and Khan Abdul Ghaffar Khan, also known as âFrontier Gandhiâ or Fakhr-e Afghan (Pride of the Afghans), as well as the leaders elected in both countries in 2014. (p.122) ...
While Ghaffar Khan is popularly identified with the idea of Pashtunistan, the border areas straddling Afghanistan and Pakistan, his close relationship with the Indian National Congress and commitment to a secular national idea, despite being a staunch Muslim, formed historical and political bonds between independent India, these border areas, and independent Afghanistan. This historical legacy formed the basis of the Indo-Afghan relationship in the decades after independence.
Gotitbro ( talk) 15:45, 2 March 2023 (UTC)