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The word abyss is Greek as correctly stated in the article. However, the origin is not Sumerian, it is Greek. The etymology is Greek as correctly analyzed. I am afraid the person who wrote the article has the wrong references: Jewish Encyclopaedia!!! Why not try a Greek or American encyclopedia? You are dealng with a Greek word, not Jewish. I suggest you open any serious Greek Lexicon of ancient language, a language which has survived in the form of modern Greek and not a dead language like sumerian. I suggest you open any non-Greek publications of encyclopaedia or Lexicon to view one of the million words of ancient Greek and not the poor sumerian language. Every reference you can find on abyss (unlike Jewish Encyclopedia) states the Greek origin and etymology of the word. Please dont try to create a false link of greek words with the east. Nothing was known of sumerian history 100 years ago. Then the last 100 years american historians have created a whole sumerian civilization out of nothing. You use the words 'may have arisen'. This means you are speculating and you are not sure and certainly you cannot prove it. So I suggest you remove the note on sumerian origin. I really dont think the sumerian needed a word for 'deep waters' because they were not sea people or very close to the sea, except from rivers. On the other hand the Greeks were sea-farers having colonized the whole of mediterranean.
All the following on-line lexicons and encuyclopedias have NO reference to any Sumerian origin. They only state a Greek origin:
1) New Testament Greek Lexicon http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=12
2)Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abyss
3)Dictionary: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abyss
4)Catholic Encyclopedia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01075d.htm
5)Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology http://www.studylight.org/dic/bed/view.cgi?number=T9
6) http://www.answers.com/topic/abyss
7)Dictionary http://student.britannica.com/mwu/popup?book=Collegiate&va=abyss
8)A Theological Dictionary http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OLOsngr2pNkC&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=greek+abyss+dictionary&source=web&ots=yrRA1ie-z9&sig=0c37hXmWXNnC7XUaCefD6bJT0aw&hl=en#PPA6,M1
9)Dictionary: http://www.allwords.com/word-abyss.html
10)Bible Encyclopedia http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/A/ABYSS/
Kassos ( talk) 03:11, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
The concept is indeed Sumerian. The Abyss, or Chaos, refers to nothing else but the Abzu, the primeval freshwater ocean that existed before the creation of the earth/land, and that is later the subterranean stream that constantly flows from west to east. · CUSH · 07:41, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
It was not unknown for the ancient Greeks (and many others) to come up with folk etymologies for foreign loan words (e.g. Amazon derived from "without breast" when it is most likely derived from the name of an Iranian tribe *ha-mazan [Chantraine, Dictionnaire étymologique de la langue grecque]), so it is at least possible that abyssos is such a case (though Chantraine doesn't mention the alternative etymology). If the standard etymology is a case of folk etymology, however, it would have to have been quite early, since Homer uses the form byssos meaning depths, bottom ( Iliad 24.80). The earliest citations of abyssos I found were Aeschylus and Aristides. The frequency statistics in Perseus show 169 uses of byssos and 36 of abyssos. The chronology and frequencies suggest (though of course they don't prove) that abyssos was derived from byssos and not vice versa. Still, if nothing else, the Abzu etymology is an interesting coincidence, and I don't see why it shouldn't be mentioned. John.velonis ( talk) 06:40, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
The article is tagged as containing original research. How does anyone return from the abyss to report their research? Barbara ✐ ✉ 08:44, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
The current article has a massively Christian POV. This article should not just be be about the Christian concept of the Abyss, but to the concept itself, including the ancient Middle Eastern and Egyptian parallels. The debate over the origin of the word Abyss seems to have derailed the development of the article. Whatever the origin of the word, the ancient Levantines, Mesopotamians, and Egyptians certainly also had the concept in their belief systems. 208.98.223.114 ( talk) 22:18, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
rahab 2601:243:821:26D3:309B:9B6D:6174:B9E3 ( talk) 15:48, 14 March 2024 (UTC)
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
The word abyss is Greek as correctly stated in the article. However, the origin is not Sumerian, it is Greek. The etymology is Greek as correctly analyzed. I am afraid the person who wrote the article has the wrong references: Jewish Encyclopaedia!!! Why not try a Greek or American encyclopedia? You are dealng with a Greek word, not Jewish. I suggest you open any serious Greek Lexicon of ancient language, a language which has survived in the form of modern Greek and not a dead language like sumerian. I suggest you open any non-Greek publications of encyclopaedia or Lexicon to view one of the million words of ancient Greek and not the poor sumerian language. Every reference you can find on abyss (unlike Jewish Encyclopedia) states the Greek origin and etymology of the word. Please dont try to create a false link of greek words with the east. Nothing was known of sumerian history 100 years ago. Then the last 100 years american historians have created a whole sumerian civilization out of nothing. You use the words 'may have arisen'. This means you are speculating and you are not sure and certainly you cannot prove it. So I suggest you remove the note on sumerian origin. I really dont think the sumerian needed a word for 'deep waters' because they were not sea people or very close to the sea, except from rivers. On the other hand the Greeks were sea-farers having colonized the whole of mediterranean.
All the following on-line lexicons and encuyclopedias have NO reference to any Sumerian origin. They only state a Greek origin:
1) New Testament Greek Lexicon http://www.studylight.org/lex/grk/view.cgi?number=12
2)Dictionary.com http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abyss
3)Dictionary: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/abyss
4)Catholic Encyclopedia http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01075d.htm
5)Baker's Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology http://www.studylight.org/dic/bed/view.cgi?number=T9
6) http://www.answers.com/topic/abyss
7)Dictionary http://student.britannica.com/mwu/popup?book=Collegiate&va=abyss
8)A Theological Dictionary http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=OLOsngr2pNkC&pg=PA6&lpg=PA6&dq=greek+abyss+dictionary&source=web&ots=yrRA1ie-z9&sig=0c37hXmWXNnC7XUaCefD6bJT0aw&hl=en#PPA6,M1
9)Dictionary: http://www.allwords.com/word-abyss.html
10)Bible Encyclopedia http://www.bible-history.com/isbe/A/ABYSS/
Kassos ( talk) 03:11, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
The concept is indeed Sumerian. The Abyss, or Chaos, refers to nothing else but the Abzu, the primeval freshwater ocean that existed before the creation of the earth/land, and that is later the subterranean stream that constantly flows from west to east. · CUSH · 07:41, 27 February 2010 (UTC)
It was not unknown for the ancient Greeks (and many others) to come up with folk etymologies for foreign loan words (e.g. Amazon derived from "without breast" when it is most likely derived from the name of an Iranian tribe *ha-mazan [Chantraine, Dictionnaire étymologique de la langue grecque]), so it is at least possible that abyssos is such a case (though Chantraine doesn't mention the alternative etymology). If the standard etymology is a case of folk etymology, however, it would have to have been quite early, since Homer uses the form byssos meaning depths, bottom ( Iliad 24.80). The earliest citations of abyssos I found were Aeschylus and Aristides. The frequency statistics in Perseus show 169 uses of byssos and 36 of abyssos. The chronology and frequencies suggest (though of course they don't prove) that abyssos was derived from byssos and not vice versa. Still, if nothing else, the Abzu etymology is an interesting coincidence, and I don't see why it shouldn't be mentioned. John.velonis ( talk) 06:40, 17 February 2015 (UTC)
The article is tagged as containing original research. How does anyone return from the abyss to report their research? Barbara ✐ ✉ 08:44, 5 April 2018 (UTC)
The current article has a massively Christian POV. This article should not just be be about the Christian concept of the Abyss, but to the concept itself, including the ancient Middle Eastern and Egyptian parallels. The debate over the origin of the word Abyss seems to have derailed the development of the article. Whatever the origin of the word, the ancient Levantines, Mesopotamians, and Egyptians certainly also had the concept in their belief systems. 208.98.223.114 ( talk) 22:18, 26 March 2020 (UTC)
rahab 2601:243:821:26D3:309B:9B6D:6174:B9E3 ( talk) 15:48, 14 March 2024 (UTC)