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PC88 is a cut-tubular powder, not a square flake, see this photo: https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13600081_254261874956648_2488097096489363466_n.jpg?oh=c310acb5c2d2b5f07006e6211f9597e5&oe=5879076B
Also, it is smokeless and not semismokeless - we actually fired some: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5VCbIfsmAQ
(Bloke on the Range, 11.09.2016) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.55.184.226 ( talk) 07:52, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
It's known that the GP90/23 used a different powder. That picture of PC88 isn't mine, and I can't find an upload function, but I'll park a photo of mine here: http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/attachments/dscn5368-jpg.259651/ no copyright, anyone can edit and use it.
(Bloke on the Range, 17.09.2016) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.55.184.226 ( talk) 10:30, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
The sidebar info listed this cartridge as being involved in WWII., the Suez Crisis, the Algerian War, and the Vietnam War. I think somebody had this cartridge mixed up with 7.5x54mm French. I went ahead and changed it to "WWII (Armed Neutrality)" to reflect the very active mobilization of the Swiss Army and their use of the GP11 cartridge during WWII. SB Pete ( talk) 01:45, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
12.7mm was the most popular rifle cartridge in Europe at the time... What? 12.7mm is .50 cal and is a relatively new calibre. This needs to be changed but I would love to see the reasoning for putting it in.
There is some discussion on the talk:list of rifle cartridges page about the proper name for this cartridge. Does someone know definitively if this is the "7.5 x 55 Schmidt-Rubin" or the "7.5 mm Swiss" or something else even? Arthurrh 20:44, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I've fixed the copy-and-paste rename that was performed on this article. I am not endorsing one name or the other, but please do not perform any more copy-and-paste renames. Move articles using the "move" button. TomTheHand ( talk) 19:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Where does the Schmidt Rubin part in the article name come from, besides Rudolf Schmidt developed a rifle around 1898 that used Eduard Rubin's cartridge and hence created the Schmidt Rubin Model 1889 service rifle system for the Swiss Army?
I only could find a 7.5x55mm Swiss (7.5x55 Schmidt Rubin) article by Chuck Hawks. Mr. Hawks thinks these cartridges where always imported from Europe to the US. Maybe some US ammunition importer/seller once added the Schmidt Rubin part and others copied this, but I could not find any European source using the Schmidt Rubin addition. To my best knowledge in Switzerland the cartridge is know as GP90, GP 90/03, GP90/23 (for historic rifles) or GP11 (its more recent Swiss military designation) and in the rest of Europe it is know as 7,5 x 55 Swiss.
In the Schmidt-Rubin article it becomes clear Col. Schmidt refused to redesign the Model 1889 action. On November 3, 1892, Col. Vogelsang was assigned the task of designing three rifles with improved actions. This resulted in the Schmidt-Rubin Model 1896 rifle that replaced the Schmidt-Rubin 1889 Model rifle
With the introduction of the Model 1897 Kadet rifle the Swiss ceased adding Schmidt-Rubin to their newly designed rifle nomenclature. The Schmidt-Rubin addition only remained being used to designate a modernized variant of the Schmidt-Rubin 1896 rifle. Those Schmidt-Rubin 1896/11 rifles where adapted to fire GP11 cartridges. Source: The Schmidt-Rubin Series (elaborate article)
Francis Flinch ( talk) 11:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 20:58, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
The 1889 only left army service in 1934, when it was finally withdrawn from "landwehr" (third-line) units - see Bundesblatt: Botschaft 2931, 17 March 1933, German: http://www.swisswaffen.com/sw-getimg.php?I=a6o9tkld0qch&LP=ST3 English translation: http://www.swisswaffen.com/sw-getimg.php?I=ap7ndxta0r27&LP=ST3
They were then taken out of store during WW2 and given to the Ortswehr, the equivalent of the Home Guard.
Had WW1 gone live for Switzerland, a large number of front-line units would have been armed with the 1889.
(Bloke on the Range, 17.09.2016)
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"Long after the discontinuation of the Schmidt–Rubin Model 1889 rifle in the Swiss Armed Forces the GP90/03 round was updated in 1923 and called the GP90/23, for use in shooting competitions." The first phrase is completely wrong - the 1889 was in Landsturm (3rd line) usage until withdrawn in 1934: see here - https://swisswaffen.com/modell-1931-carbine/k31/sw-getimg.php/files/modell-1931-carbine/k31-bundesblatt-botschaft-2931-einfuehrung-des-karabiners-mod-31-17-maerz/a6o9tkld0qch
I've also never seen any suggestion that GP90/23 was for use in shooting competitions. If this was the case, Karl Zimmermann would have mentioned it in his wartime book. Instead, the only mention it gets is as "smaller amounts of jacketed ammunition of later manufacture" when discussing ammunition for the 1889 rifles issued out to the Ortswehr (home guard) during WW2.
I came over from the German Wiki article about Eduard Rubin when I realized that the pictures in the article did not represent his work (the 1889 rifle and 7,5 mm GP90 cartridge), but the later variants 1911 rifle and GP11 cartridge. He had not a lot to do with those. When I checked for the correct links, I stumbled across this... This article just tosses together the GP90 and GP11, which are absolutely not the same. The lemma is "7.5 x 55", but the first half talks about the 7.5 x 53.5, without giving a clue why it switches. Please, can someone with more profeciency in English (I'm native German) correct that? -- FyodorWO ( talk) 08:14, 6 October 2021 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
7.5×55mm Swiss article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject. |
Article policies
|
Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
This article is rated C-class on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
PC88 is a cut-tubular powder, not a square flake, see this photo: https://scontent-cdg2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13600081_254261874956648_2488097096489363466_n.jpg?oh=c310acb5c2d2b5f07006e6211f9597e5&oe=5879076B
Also, it is smokeless and not semismokeless - we actually fired some: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5VCbIfsmAQ
(Bloke on the Range, 11.09.2016) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.55.184.226 ( talk) 07:52, 11 September 2016 (UTC)
It's known that the GP90/23 used a different powder. That picture of PC88 isn't mine, and I can't find an upload function, but I'll park a photo of mine here: http://www.arrse.co.uk/community/attachments/dscn5368-jpg.259651/ no copyright, anyone can edit and use it.
(Bloke on the Range, 17.09.2016) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.55.184.226 ( talk) 10:30, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
The sidebar info listed this cartridge as being involved in WWII., the Suez Crisis, the Algerian War, and the Vietnam War. I think somebody had this cartridge mixed up with 7.5x54mm French. I went ahead and changed it to "WWII (Armed Neutrality)" to reflect the very active mobilization of the Swiss Army and their use of the GP11 cartridge during WWII. SB Pete ( talk) 01:45, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
12.7mm was the most popular rifle cartridge in Europe at the time... What? 12.7mm is .50 cal and is a relatively new calibre. This needs to be changed but I would love to see the reasoning for putting it in.
There is some discussion on the talk:list of rifle cartridges page about the proper name for this cartridge. Does someone know definitively if this is the "7.5 x 55 Schmidt-Rubin" or the "7.5 mm Swiss" or something else even? Arthurrh 20:44, 12 July 2007 (UTC)
I've fixed the copy-and-paste rename that was performed on this article. I am not endorsing one name or the other, but please do not perform any more copy-and-paste renames. Move articles using the "move" button. TomTheHand ( talk) 19:52, 29 November 2007 (UTC)
Where does the Schmidt Rubin part in the article name come from, besides Rudolf Schmidt developed a rifle around 1898 that used Eduard Rubin's cartridge and hence created the Schmidt Rubin Model 1889 service rifle system for the Swiss Army?
I only could find a 7.5x55mm Swiss (7.5x55 Schmidt Rubin) article by Chuck Hawks. Mr. Hawks thinks these cartridges where always imported from Europe to the US. Maybe some US ammunition importer/seller once added the Schmidt Rubin part and others copied this, but I could not find any European source using the Schmidt Rubin addition. To my best knowledge in Switzerland the cartridge is know as GP90, GP 90/03, GP90/23 (for historic rifles) or GP11 (its more recent Swiss military designation) and in the rest of Europe it is know as 7,5 x 55 Swiss.
In the Schmidt-Rubin article it becomes clear Col. Schmidt refused to redesign the Model 1889 action. On November 3, 1892, Col. Vogelsang was assigned the task of designing three rifles with improved actions. This resulted in the Schmidt-Rubin Model 1896 rifle that replaced the Schmidt-Rubin 1889 Model rifle
With the introduction of the Model 1897 Kadet rifle the Swiss ceased adding Schmidt-Rubin to their newly designed rifle nomenclature. The Schmidt-Rubin addition only remained being used to designate a modernized variant of the Schmidt-Rubin 1896 rifle. Those Schmidt-Rubin 1896/11 rifles where adapted to fire GP11 cartridges. Source: The Schmidt-Rubin Series (elaborate article)
Francis Flinch ( talk) 11:08, 30 November 2007 (UTC)
During several automated bot runs the following external link was found to be unavailable. Please check if the link is in fact down and fix or remove it in that case!
-- JeffGBot ( talk) 20:58, 19 June 2011 (UTC)
The 1889 only left army service in 1934, when it was finally withdrawn from "landwehr" (third-line) units - see Bundesblatt: Botschaft 2931, 17 March 1933, German: http://www.swisswaffen.com/sw-getimg.php?I=a6o9tkld0qch&LP=ST3 English translation: http://www.swisswaffen.com/sw-getimg.php?I=ap7ndxta0r27&LP=ST3
They were then taken out of store during WW2 and given to the Ortswehr, the equivalent of the Home Guard.
Had WW1 gone live for Switzerland, a large number of front-line units would have been armed with the 1889.
(Bloke on the Range, 17.09.2016)
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just modified one external link on 7.5×55mm Swiss. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{
Sourcecheck}}
).
An editor has determined that the edit contains an error somewhere. Please follow the instructions below and mark the |checked=
to true
Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot ( Report bug) 10:23, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
"Long after the discontinuation of the Schmidt–Rubin Model 1889 rifle in the Swiss Armed Forces the GP90/03 round was updated in 1923 and called the GP90/23, for use in shooting competitions." The first phrase is completely wrong - the 1889 was in Landsturm (3rd line) usage until withdrawn in 1934: see here - https://swisswaffen.com/modell-1931-carbine/k31/sw-getimg.php/files/modell-1931-carbine/k31-bundesblatt-botschaft-2931-einfuehrung-des-karabiners-mod-31-17-maerz/a6o9tkld0qch
I've also never seen any suggestion that GP90/23 was for use in shooting competitions. If this was the case, Karl Zimmermann would have mentioned it in his wartime book. Instead, the only mention it gets is as "smaller amounts of jacketed ammunition of later manufacture" when discussing ammunition for the 1889 rifles issued out to the Ortswehr (home guard) during WW2.
I came over from the German Wiki article about Eduard Rubin when I realized that the pictures in the article did not represent his work (the 1889 rifle and 7,5 mm GP90 cartridge), but the later variants 1911 rifle and GP11 cartridge. He had not a lot to do with those. When I checked for the correct links, I stumbled across this... This article just tosses together the GP90 and GP11, which are absolutely not the same. The lemma is "7.5 x 55", but the first half talks about the 7.5 x 53.5, without giving a clue why it switches. Please, can someone with more profeciency in English (I'm native German) correct that? -- FyodorWO ( talk) 08:14, 6 October 2021 (UTC)